pres. trump: my original , andnct was to pull out historically, i like following right instincts. but all of my life i have heard the decisions are much different inn you sit behind the desk the oval office. in other words, when you are president of the united states. amy: president trump vows to

escort the war in afghanistan, the longest war in u.s. histoto. we will l get response. then to bannon the barbarian. that is how steve bannon describes himself. >> the first is kind of national security and sovereignty and that is your intelligence, defense department, homeland security. the second line of work is economic nationalism. the third, broadly, what is deconstruction of the administrative state. amy: steve bannon may have been ousted from the white house, but he has not left quietly. we will speak with robert kuttner. bannon spoke to him last week and remarkable interview days before his ouster. thenen we look at billionaire cl icahn, who resigned last week as a realtor adviser to president trump just before "the new yorker" published headline "carl icahn's failed raid on washington." all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!,

democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. president trump has announced plans to escalate the u.s. war in afghanistan, already the longest war in u.s. history. while trump offered few specifics during his prime time address monday night, he has reportedly already signed off on a plan to send about 4000 more troops to afghanistan. the u.s. is already intensifying its air war. during the month of june, the u.s. carried out 389 airstrikes in afghanistan - the highest monthly total in five years. trump's speech follows an intetense babate within n the we house. trump's top generals had been pressing trump to deploy thousands more u.s. troops, while former white house chief strategist steve bannonon and other members of the administration had been pushing to privatize the u.s. war and send in thousands of military contractors. we'll have more on trtrump's announuncementnt and the u.s. wn afghanistan later in headlines. in syria, the local journalistic group raqqa is being slaughtered silently reports dozens of

civilians have been killed by u.s.-led bomombing and u.s. artillery fire over the last few days amid the ongoing battle to seize control of the city of raqqa from isis. the group says as many as 32 civilians were killed amid bombing in one neighborhood alone. among the victims were eight members of a family who had fled to raqqa amid earlier fighting in palmyra. a local syrian journalist with the outlet sound and picture reports -- "the city is devoid of doctors and the market is devoid of food. what food there was in our fridges has rotted because of the absence of electricity." back in the united states, confederate statues continue to fall amid massive nationwide protests a againstst white supry and the monuments s celebratingg the u.s. legacy of slavery and racism. the university of texas at austin has removed three statues of confederate leaders. in an ememail to students,

the university president wrote -- "we do not choose our history, but we choose what we honor and celebrate on our campus." the university of houston has announced it will rename a dormitory now called calhoun lofts. former vice presidident john c. calhoun was of the m most prominent pro-slavery figures in u.s. history. meanwhile, in baltimore, maryland, activists took a sledge hammer to a 44-foot-tall monument of christopher cocolumbus, destroying part the statueue and then atattaching an to its base reading, "the future is racial and economicic justic" this is one baltimore resident, explaining why the statue was targeted in a video posted online of the action. oldeste walking to the monument of christopher columbus in north america. he signals the invasion of european capitalism into the western hemisphere. he initiated a wave of terrorism, murder, rape, slavery, ecologigical degradatin

and capitalist exploititation of labor in the americas. the colombian wave of destruction continues on the backs of indigenous afrfrican american and brown people. racist monuments have always bothered me. amy: as many as 50 graduates of liberty university in lynchburg, virginia, are e planning to retn their diplomas in protest, after the university's president defended president trump's refusal to quickly condemn the deadly white supremacist andnd neo-nazi rally inn charlottesville, virginia, which left anti-racist activist dead one and dozens wounded. in response to trump's comments that thehere was violence on boh sides, university president jerry falwell, jr., tweeted -- "finally a leader in wh. jobs returning, n korea backing down, bold truthful statement abouout #charlottesville t trag. so proud of @realdononaldtrump." the secret service says its run out of money to protect presidenent trump and his famimy as the agency has been stretched

thin by trump's large family, their multiple homes up and down the east coast, and trump's frequent trips to his private golf resorts. the secret service currently has 1000 agents protecting trump and 41 of his family members. trump's trips to his private golf courses are particularly expensive, with the secret service already spending $60,000 in taxpayer money on golf cart rentals this year alone. the commander of the u.s. pacific fleet says the remains have been found of some of the u.s. sailors who went missing after the uss john mccain collided with an oil tanker in the waters off singapore. 10 sailors were missing after the collision and five more were injured. it's the second time this summer that a navy ship has collided with another vessel at sea. in june, seven u.s. sailors died after the uss fitzgerald collided with a container ship south of japan. before that on may 9, the uss lake champlain was hit by

fishing boat, in january, anotother ran aground. pope francis has issued an action plan calling on governments worldwide to prioritize the dignity of migrants and refugees. the 20 point plan demands countrtries outline legal l pats fofor migration and avoid blankt -- avoid depending refugees were deporting them en masse. it also calls on countries to stop imprisoning refugees and migrants simply for entering a country without authorization. the pope's action plan comes as hundreds of afghans are planning to march in athens, greece, today to demand to be recognized legally as refugees and to call on greece and the european union to stop the mass deportation of afghans back to war-torn afghanistan. in west africa, tens of thousands of people protested in -- the protesters chanted "50 years is too long!" as they were confronted by troops firing tear

gas and live ammunition. at least two protesters were killed by securityty forceces. in spain, police have shot and killed a suspect in the barcelona attack that killed 14 people after a van plowed into a crowded walkway thursday. younes abouyaaqoub was suspected of driving the van. he was shot dead by police on monday in a town 30 miles west of barcelona. on sunday, thousands of muslims marched against violence in barcrcelona chanting "islam is peace" a and "not in my name."." german-turkish author dogan akhanli was briefly arrested over the weekend at turkey's request in a further crackdown against free speech and human rights by turkish presidenent recep tayyip erdogan. the author has criticized erdogan and written extensively about human rights in turkey, including the 2007 killing of a turkish journalist and the 1915 armenian genocide by ottoman

turks. this is author akhanli speaking after being granted conditional release. .> i was even shocked so to say when i saw the police in front of me, not shocked immediately, but later i was shocked that the police went there with the intention to arrest me. that shocked me because i was wondering why i was of so much interest to the spanish police, that they have gone to so much trouble, andnd they arrested men my hotel room. amy: in india,a, unionizized bak workers haveve launched aa nationwide strike today to protest government policies that promote privatization of the banking sector. as many as 50,000 workrkers wald off the job todaday in the sosouthern s state of tamil nadu alone. the striking workers say the privatization and consolidation of thehe banks w would make it n harder to get loans for agriculture, rural development , and education. in chile, pro-choice activists

have won a landmark victory as the supreme court ruled monday in favor of legislation that rolls back o one of the world's strictest anti-abortion laws imposed under chile's military dictatorship nearly three decades ago. the court ruling comes after years of organizing and protests by women across chile. it will legalize abortion in cases of rape, when a mother's life is in danger, or when the fetus is unviable. chilean women celebrated the court ruling on monday. decide. i decide. i am free now to decide. to tellrvative is going me what i have to do with my uterus. amy: back in the united states, president trump is heading to arizona today, where he's expected to face major protests in phohoenix. local news reports that tens of thousands of peoeople are expecd to turn out to p protest against trump's campmpaign-style rally t the phoenix convention center. there's widespread speculation he may pardon the notorious sheriff joe arpaio today, who has been convicted of contempt of court for defying a court order to stop his deputies from

racially profiling people and then detaining them on suspicion of being undocumented. arpaio is a major supporter ofof trump, whose policies have included detaining immigrants in a scorching outdoor jail which arpaio once referred to as his own concentration camp. in ohio, the father of a steubenville high school player convicted of rape in 2013 shot and wounded a county judge near steubenville courthouse monday. as joseph survived the shooting, and the suspected shooter is the father of a boy who served 10 months after begin the could of raping a 16-year-old girl. the judge was not the one who handled the rate case and authorities are still looking for possible connections or a motive. in bristol, rhode island, members of the pokanoket nation have launched a permanent encampment aimed at reclaiming their sacred ancestral land, which is currently claimed by brown university.

>> goodd mororning. saganaw. to repatriateday back to of my people our nation. amy: and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. juan: and i'm juan gonzalez. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. there is no end in sight to the longest war in u.s. history. in a prime time address on monday, president trump vowed to stepep up the u.s. military campaign in afghanistan, which began nearly 16 years ago. while trump offered few specifics, he has reportedly signed off on a plan to send about 4000 more troops to afghanistan. this comes as the u.s. is

already intensifying its air war. during the month of june, the united states carried out 389 airstrikes in afghanistan -- the highest monthly total in five years. trump warned against what he called a hasty withdhdrawal. pres. trump: consequences of a rarapid exit are both predictabe and unacceptable. 9/11, the worst terrorist attack in our history, was planned and directed from afghanistan because that country was ruled by a government that gave comfort and shelter to terrorists. i hasty withdrawal would create that terrorists, including isis and al qaeda, would instantly fill just as happened before september 11. and as we know, in 2011, america

drewly and mistakenly with from iraq. juan: president trump also acknowledged his decision to expand the war went against his own instincts. pres. trump: my original instinct was to pull out and historically i like following my instincts, but all of my life i have heard that decisions are much different when you sit behind the desk of the oval office. in other words, when you're president of the united states. amy: trump's speech follows an intense debate within the white house. trump's top generals had been pressing trump to deploy thousands more u.s. troops, while former white house chief strategist steve bannon and other members of the administration had been pushing to privatize the u.s. war and send in thousands of military contractors. we are joined now by two guests.

here in new york, azmat khan, an award-winning investigative journalist who has reported extensively from afghanistan. she is a future of war fellow at new america. and joining from washington is matthew hoh. former state department official who resigned his post in afghanistan in 2009 in protest against the obama administration's escalation of the war in afghanistan. he is now a senior fellow with ththe center for international policy. matthew hoh, your response to president trump's address? >> thank you for having me on. disgusting, fear based demagoguery. did pleased that he reference charlottesville, not for what i believe was his intention -- which i think was everybody should get in line and realize the good things

we have in this country and so be unified -- but rather because what happens in this country is linked to what we do overseas. that the wars we have overseas divine the wars we have here at home. and that is impossible for us to have peace at home until we have peace of broad. there's no coincidence that we're the largest arms exporter in the world and we are also the nation that has 350 million guns, right? that we have -- the most prisoners in the world and we have killed almost one million iraqis since 2003. so i was glad he made that evenge, whether or not -- know that was not his intention by any means. however, i am greatly saddened because there was nothing in that speech besides the prospect

of more killing. what i saw as evolution of the military policy, to one of just -- evolving to punishment. we're no longer going to try and even attempt to have political control. we're going to go to a policy like we're seeing in yemen. better toat can speak this than i can, but what we saw in terms of what happened in just sheeeermosul, destruction to deal with the the areas outside of our empire. i think that is what we will see in afghanistan. because whatever troops were sent to afghanistan will be meant to incncrease the afgfghas ability y to do commando raids,o to send more troops into people's homes in the middle of

the night to punish them, to killll and c capture people in e middddle of f the night, as wels to launch artillery strikes were airstrikes. i think this is definitely part kelly'sattis's and john influence on president trump. juan: i want to ask you, president trump tried to make clear he inherited a mess from his predecessors. but at the same time, he really did not enunciate any kind of change in american policicy. no emphasis on the political negotiation that will be necessary to end the war in afghanistan. your sense of what kind of a departure the trump administration represents now from president obama -- or does it really not matter in terms of presidents, the same effort of the united states to dominate other countries and to impose its military will seems to be

maintained in a matter who is in the white house. >> i was thinking about this last night. there is this book that all marine corps officers -- i was an officer in the marines -- was required to read. i think the influence of jim mattis and kelly cannot be underestimated here. there is a book that would called "this kind of war" about the korean war and about how the united states was not prepared for korea and how, basically, summarizes how there are tigers in this world and how we almost lost korea because we underestimated the tigers in this world. but the author connects the marine corps and its legacy to the legionnaires of the roman empire. if you look at how kelly and mattis describe themselves and carry themselves, they see themselves as modern-day lesion ears.

-- legionnaires. particularly kelly, you can see his description of this war as a war for our way of life and now he must do anything. and kelly's speeches when he was in charge of southern command about how we don't need to understand the enemy, we only need to kill him. this goes very much in line with president trump's rhetoric. how we don't need to understand the enemy, we only need to kill them. of course, there will be no diplomacy. of course, general mattis, who is first to praise himself, always speaking about his 8000 book library, how he is the preeminent warrior scholar of his time, these are meant who see themselves as modern-day legionnaires. i think there is a reason for anyone else to have any influence in these matters besides the two of them, except

who isbe h.r. mcmaster, the national security adviser who 20 years ago wrote a book called "dear election of duty" how the generals and the vietnam war failed their soldiers and the american public by betraying the principles and not acknowledging the vietnam war was not winnable and a moral come of that was built on lies, just as the afghan will -- afghan war is. general mcmaster is this greek tragedy of a persona because 20 years after he published this book, he's himself is this character. so these are the three men, these generals, who are devising president trump. i think you can see all three aspects of these men in the presidents speech last night. what you don't see any mention of diplomacy, you don't see any change in policy other than a hardening of policy and these

tropes about we must kill the terrorists, they're coming for us, everyone must be afraid, we all must unify, no one has any other input, we all must unify. and also, to come e i think that is why we saw no mention of a troop increase. over the past six months, we're herd, the me department of defense change its policy of put troops into kuwait and say, "we're just going to put troops into iraq basically whenever we want." they say, "wewe're not going too tell you how many, we're only going to give you unit names and rough numbers are estimates of numbers." basically, i think general kelly and general mattis view anything such as the media asking for troop numbers as an annoyance, as something that they don't -- you know,cect or something that is not deserved

to be recognized because they are e in the process of defendng the empire. again, they are modern-day legionnaires. amy: you're raising a critical point about who is the closest inner circle to trump right now outside of his family. now it is down to -- you general mattis, the secretary of defense . folks may remember, he had to get a waiver because he is not a civilian. the traditional secretary of defense. he is s a general. then you have the national security adviser come usually civilian, but he is general mcmaster. then you have the chief of staff, usually a civilian, but he is also a general, general kelly. the significance of these three men -- and you quit afghanistan, you quit your position in the state department under president obama protesting the war. you also served in iraq and you were a marine corp. jumped a commandeder in iraraq. at your ththoughts about this nw military leadership of this country that surrounds president

trump? >> i go to one of my favorite eisenhower quote, president eisenhower quotes. what i said earlier, both president eisenhower and also president kennedy recognized, as well as dr. martin luther king, recognize this intersection at the wars abroad are intersected with the wars at home, that we can't have peace at home while having war abroad. we have $700 billion defense budgets, we will never have universal health care. as long as both political waries vote for killing in and prisons, we will never priorititize taking care of o or own people. what president eisenhower said country if athis man ever sit in this chair who has never served in the military."

, nothe meant by that was that the military gives you some level of expertise or some level of experience, but that a civilian would be run roughshod over, that he would not be able to raise the bs fly, that he would not know the generals are just going to lie to him over and ovever and over again. that is ultimately what war is, one continual lie. that is what we have seen in afghanistan and iraq and vietnam, etc., etc. i think that is what is happening here. president trump may be our most malleable and easily influenced resident of all time. juan: i would like to bring azmat khan to the conversation. you wrote an investigative piece on the situation in afghanistan. hearing president trump last night, it is clear this war will not end in his term in office.

in your sense, what that means for afghanistan right now? we have p did a refrain heard time and again about both the wars in iraq and afghanistan. it was this idea that because the u.s. with true hastily, in wasview, that the taliban able to gain power, that isis was able to gain power. right now the television significantretains influence in 40% of the country. to attribute that to a hasty withdrawal is something that is been done in the past and has not actually added up. 2010 tohink back to afghanistan specifically and obama's troop, was often said was that in troops in iraq whether that afghanistan was the reason why the taliban was able to take control. the committed more than 100,000 troops to the country. you're essentially hearing the exact same argument you heard come"we need more troops

so we cannot withdraw to hastily. you're seeing the same arguments being made again. the question now is, what is different? what is different is this s time ththere is no timetable for withdrawal. what presidedent trump j justifd is not wanting to broadcast what american intentions are. there's also no delineation of the exact number of troops -- at least, not in his speech last night. the third difference is what seems to be perceived shift in the approach toward pakistan. it is interesting because we have been talking about how generals have played a role in this policy, but there is a civilian component. there is a national security council component that i see in the policy he articulated last night. that specifically his deputy assistant, the director for south and central asia come the national security council, lisa curtis, who has advocated continuously for a shift in the approach to pakistan.

you saw some of that last night. he did not get specific, but if you go back to her papers that leaves the curtis published, -- lisa curtis published, you see some of the options that were alluded to last night. possibly issuing or continuing airstrikes, for example, in other parts of pakistan that have not traditionally been hit by airstrikes. for example, going after the test having airstrikes in this area, an area that is really only had one airstrike b by the united states, which was killing me former head of the taliban, the afghan taliban. so there are some differences when it comes to pakistan, potential differences, but more or less, this is the same argument we have heard time and again. there really is not

advocacy for a political settlement. one way to possibly get to a solution that did d not involve military force. given the fact if you look at this history, this surge of troops has not yielded the results that was anticipated happened ine s surge 2010. in fact, the taliban is stronger today than back then. amy: how much of last i do think was motivated by charlottesville? while he never r talked about charlottesville, clearly, his worsrst week ever, after presidt trump has a terrible week, usually there is a foreign enemy that y you locate to distract attention. you know, this is the dead of august. the day of the clips. it mainly think back to george w. bush when it was asked why they weren't pushing for more war with iraq right before the iraq war in the summer. his chief of staff, andrew card, gm executive, said famously "you

don't roll out a new product in august." well, this is august. yet he clearly needed to distract attention to the catastrophe of last week, to his fundamentally saying in charlottesville the people were illegal -- the neo-nazis and white supremacist were a permitted rally and the violence was on both sides and massive condemnation he got coming clean from across the boards generals. >> it is telling that nobody was expecting this at this time and that is one indicator. another indicator is the fact he deviated from the way he normally delivers speeches. script. to his he read off a teleprompter. that tells you this was an effort to shift from his traditional ways of communicatating with the americn public, that he was giving into possible advisors and others who have told him, listen, we need you to sow more presidential. because it was a deviation from

the norm. i cannot speculate how specific it was his afghanistan articulation was specifically that, but they are indicators that is what happened here. august is a dead month. you're absolutely right. amy: we will see what happens tonight when president trump has to phoenix. who knows, maybe you'll read from a teleprompter. this is the bus to be a campaign style rally at the phoenix convince center with -- convention center. we will see if you parts of former sheriff arpaio. azmat khan, thank you for being with us award-winning , investigative journalist and a future of war fellow at new america. she has reported extensively from afghanistan. her 2015 investigation into u.s. funded schools in afghanistan was headlined, "ghost students, ghost teachers, ghost schools." and matthew hoh, thanks for joinining us, senior f fellow wh the center for international policy. in 2009, he resigned from the state department in protest

against the obama administration's escalation of the war in afghanistan. prior to that, he served in afghanistan, including a commandeder and an bar provincen iraq. when we come back, the man steve bannon called just before he was ousted. we will speak with bob kuttner of the american prospect. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: "lalolalo," an afghanistan lullaby performed by kulsoom syed ghulam and lila downs. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. juan: president trump's chief strategist steve bannon has left the white house and rejoined the far right-wing website breitbart news as the executive chairman. breitbart has been described as after departing the white house, he said -- "in many ways i think i can be more effective fighting from the outside for the agenda president trump ran on. and anyone who stands in our way, we will go to war with." in an intervrview with the weeky standard, bannon also said he feels jacked up now that he's returned to breitbart, saying -- "i've got my hands back on my weapons.

someone said, 'it's bannon the barbarian.' i am definitely going to crush the opposition." his departure came after a series of meetings last week with billionaire funder robert mercer, who funds breitbart and funded trump's campaign. bannon met with mercer wednesday, and trump met with mercer on thursday. bannon departed the white house the following day. well, last week, just before he was ousted, steve bannon granted an extraordinary interview to robert kuttner of the liberal magazine the american prospect. bob kuttner joins us now from boston. welcome to democracy now! bob, can you start off by describing what happened last week? you got a phone call? >> not quite. i was on vacation and i got any know from bannon's assistant saying he had read my column criticizing china's policy and he wanted me to come to the

white house. i said, i'm on vacation with my family but maybe we could talk by phone. about an hour later, bending called. every once in while you get lucky as a journalist and he never bothered to put the conversation on background or off the record. as you know in journalism, if high public offificial or if anybody calls you and says "i want to talk to"o" and doesn't bother to say itit is off the record, it is their fault it is on the record. he proceeded to say a bunch of staggeringly things. on the ascension that because i had also criticized -- on the assumption that i had also criticized china's policy, and because that sort of overlooked his critique, that we were old buddies and soulmate and he's been the first few minutes of the interview kind of ingratiating himself with me, telling me what a thrill it was to meet me after all of these years. he is been reading my stuff. it was one part eva take a look

which is an odd word to use with an end, and one part bravado, one part recklesessness. it was weird because if he knew he was on the nice, what is he doing reaching out to me and can you imagine bannon trotting into a m meeting of the national security council saying, hey, you'll never aggressive agrees with my analysis, bob kuttner? that would push them over the edge. in fact, he kind of did. juan: some of the stuff that bannon has said since in seems to indicate that his resignation was already agreed-upon between the trumpd administration, the president, that it was only a question of the timing. to the get is possible he knew he was on his way out was going have a shoot out now and do itit through robertrt kuttner? >> i think of rich possibilities. what we may never know until the historians have been at this, i think maggie and "the times" had

the best explanation. he was on the ropes. with generalating kelly and with trump to postpone start marching until after labor day and maybe he thought he could rally his forces on "let's get tough with china." i is the only explanation have seen that kind of makes sense. if he had already been fired, it was bizarre he would of called me and said, "why do you come to the white house" because that would have been fantasyland. this is not the world's most stable person. on the other hand, he is a very strategic analysis of how you connect neo-nazi white supremacy nationalism to economic nationalism. het is interesting here is has been able to sell his boss, trump, on the get in bed with the white supremacist parts of the nationalism. he has not been able to sell the

rest of the administration on economic nationalism because, of course, they are in bed with corporations. it is fake populism. the most recent example is the idea he would use crony capitalism, hiring these private armies, and masquerade as a solution is him. who does he think pays for those private armies? it is the u.s. taxpayers. as expensive as the pentagon is, the private armies are even more wasteful and more expensive. he is all over the map. one thing that is quite coherent, he thinks the winning strategy is you connect racist nationalism and immigrant nationalism to economic nationalism, and the other really interesting question going forward is, whether bannon is going to try to play a kind of kitchen cabinet role where he talks to trump in the middle of the night, coaches and, trump is famous for these men of phone calls. or is it going to join breitbart who right now is kicking the president in the shins as s can

a s sellout and in a a interewew with the weeklyy standard,d, hes kind of onoth h sides of the ququestion. he said the trump presidency that we fought for and one is over. even dan and can''t really have that both ways, especially since trump hates being upstaged by his advisers. that is what did in bannon. anthonydid in scaramucci. amy: so talk about the other issues that he addressed with you. for example, charlottesville. it sounds like according to "the times," he was going to go -- not that he could've gone quietly at any point -- but with charlottesville, of course, his brand of white supremacy, neo-nazi, the whole issue of the confederacy, he suddenly becomes front and center. and this is when he is talking to you, in the midst of this unhinged'sc,

conference that president trump has on tuesday. what was the timing between your conversation and trump saying both sides were responsible on saturday, then giving a teleprompter addressed where he condemned the neo-nazis and was a premises,s, then tuesday going ofoff on the reporters and the protesters? >> he called me about 20 minutes before the press conference started. it is pretty clear that his fingerprints were all over trump strategy of doubling down on the racism. there was a war between the people like jerrod and ivanka who wanted him to back o off, whoral kelly, and bannon wanted him to double down -- which makes the timing of the phone call even more weird. amy: he said to you, the democrats from the longer they talk about identity politics, i to them for stuff i wanted talk about racism every day. if the left is focused on race and identity and we go economic, we can crush the democrats.

bob kuttner? >> i pushed him very hard on that on the interview. i said, even if we agree that our china policy is basically selling out to a combination of beijing economic nationalism in her own corporations are happy to take a subsidies, have to take the slave labor in china, and then re-exports back to the u.s., that really does hurt american industry and american workers. but i said, even if we agree on that, why do you have to get in bed with neo-nazis in order to take a harder line with china on behalf of american workers? that is when he kind of drew this picture of a grand strategy where you connect the economic nationalism and the racism to you box in the democrats by forcing the democrats to defend people of color. beforew, i was listening

we went on, amy, to the fellow who was talking about pulling down the statue of columbus because it all started with columbus. well, if that is the strategy that the left adopts, it almost plays into bannon's hands. eventually, we're going to need a truth and reconciliation process in this country where we decide which statues stay and which statues go. i think if you took a vote and asked people, do you agree we ought to pull down the statue of andmbus b because the racism anti-native peoples all started with columbus? even if it did, most people would side with bannon. he is astutely playing off liberals and decent people against thisis idea that the whe working class is beleaguered. he does this much more adeptly

than his boss does. you get the feeling that trumps default setting is down just pure racism and nativism and even getting in bed with at-nazis, where as bannon least has a grand theory about what he is doing. there are two ways to look at what is going to happen going forward. either with dan and out, trump becomes even more unhinged left to his own devices, or he decides now is t the time to pul out and make more of an alliance , thethe mainstream republican party. i think we will get an indication of this in phoenix. if he does pardon sheriff arpaio, that is doubling down -- arpaio is the guy who coached in using breitbart about the genius of going after mexicans as rapists and going after anti-immigrant and building a wall. that was bannon. juan: robert kuttner, i would lilike to ask yoyou about his remarks on north korea. he was clearly, it seems, in

direct opposition to president trump. could you talk about what he said and your thoughts about his words since then? >> well, he made it very clear he completely disagreed with his boss. on this point, bannon was actually right. he said if there was any kind of -- i can't said remember quite the exact words, but almost. he said, unless someone can expand to me how 10 million south koreans in greater seoul are not going to be killed by conventional weapons the first 30 minutes, then this talk of war is not sensible. whatdirectly contradicted his boss, the president, had said only days earlier. view was because the chinese are really not helping us out with the north koreans,

they just go to the motions of that, it is the logic of mutually assured destruction that prevents kim from lunch in a bear attack on the u.s. the reality,is says bannon, and i agree with him on this one point, we could be taking a much firmer line with china am a but the state department, defense department u.s. trade rep are all backing off on china glibly that china is somehow going to pull our chestnuts out of the fire with north korea. analysis.shrewd this is not a stupid man. but it is 180 degrees opposite to what his boss said. interestingly, both trump and kim have pulled back in the last few days, and that is also classic trump. "oh, that wasas yesterday, nener mind." amy: after pulling back on north korea, trump said he was going to bomb venezuela. >> yeah, and what is really interesting about bombing then is when the, -- venezuela, he is

given a free pass to dictators from the philippines to turkey moscow, buto somehow -- amy: to saudi arabia. >> we can go on and on and on. but somehow, he picks venezuela to go after. if you have a left-wing regime violating human rights, you go after them. if you have right-wing dictatorships going after human rights, god bless them. amy: so he talked about the was a from assists -- white supremacists in charlottesville as clowns. can you talk about his evaluation of what took place there? >> i think that was another effort on his part, completely insincere, to ingratiate himself with the progressive journalists. if you're talking to them eric and prospect, you're not sure yoyou are on or off the record, and i pushed him on, in order to tough with china, what

you to get in bed with neo-nazis? is like the guy who'll say anything to get the woman to go to bed with him. he starts improvising and oh, their clothes, we don't take them seriously.. thaton't think he believes fofor seconds and his base knows he doesn't believe that for 10 seconds. amy: i want to go back to what you set about organizing and the monuments that are coming down all over. president trump saying people will take e the beauty outut of state parkrks in cities. the beauty. these are the monuments to the confederate and slaveholding soldiers and generals. and what about the power we're seeing right now all over the country of people fighting back, of people taking down statues? we saw him a certainly, you know, there would not be a statue of adolf hitler just remember that is what happened in germany. and here in this country, 40,000 ,eople marching in boston

people taking down statues around the country going back to bree newsome who did this when nikki haley was the governor of south carolina. she did not wait for the south carolina legislature to vote after the nine parishioners were killed in charleston. this young woman, african-american woman, shimmied up the flagpole and took back confederate flag down -- took that confederate flag down. the legislature was humiliated into doing it then themselves. is very tricky. there is no central committee of americanan progressivism. there is no grand strategy council. people do what they do. it is very encouraging to see the upsurge of activism on the antiracist side. what is tricky is that i think most americans who are not

well-defined left or well-defined far right would say, "yes, the statues to the people who work part of the secession of the confederacy for the purpose of defending slavery , there is no place for those statues anywhere in america." but then -- and this is where trump scored maybe half a point during that crazy rant on tuesday of last week. george washington did have slaves. thomas jefferson did have slaves. columbus and what followed did still a country of indigenous native americans. but if you don't draw the line at statues celebrating the confederaracy but you go all the way back to the original sin of european colonialization and you start pulling down statues of columbus, you run the risk of losing a lot of america and you run the risk of making trump sound almost rational -- whicich is quite a a feat. who is you?

people are going to do what they're going to do, but i hope somehow instead of just pulling down statues to everybody, we can start a process of racial truth, healing, and reconciliation which this country is never had, and be a little more deliberate and the criteria for which statues we pull down. amy: the white nationalists have ast canceled abundance -- bunch of rallies after getting trounced in these organizing countermeasures from boston on. >> i was very proud of boston. amy: there will be held as online demonstrations. certainly, the u.s. government knows about the power of pulling down statues. what happened after the fall of baghdad in 2003 in april, the u.s. military pulled down, ultimately, put a noos around the neck and pull down the statue ofe saddam hussein. understanding the significance

of that. >> i was proud of boston. with upwards of 40,000 demonstrators and the far right people who called this rally were revealed to be the pitifully small group they really are. that is what we need to show them up for. at the end of the day, there are not that many neo-nazis. part of the way this is playing out makes it look as if a lot of with the side neo-nazis. they don't. they need to be contained. the fact that these and americans all over the -- decent americans are willing to come that iscontain them, fantastic. amy: robert kuttner, thank you for being with us, cofounder and coeditor of the american prospect. his piece is titled "steve , bannon, unrepentant." kuttner is also a professor at brandeis university's heller school. his latest book is "debtors' prison: the polititics of austerity versus possibility." while steve bannon's ouster got

enormous attention, someone left quietly. why? we will talk about the corporate raider carl icahn. stay with us. ♪ [music break] amy: "when we make it through"

performed by barbara dane. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. juan: on friday, billionaire investor carl icahn left his role as regulatory adviser to donald trump just before "the new yorker" published an article entitled, "carl icahn's failed raid on washington." the article detailed carl icahn's potential conflicts of interest, including his heavy lobbying for a rule change about blending ethanol into gasoline, a rule which affects the profits of icahn's texas-based petroleum refining company. icahn became a majority investor in cvr energy in 2012, with hopes of later selling it at a profit according to "the new yorker." icahn railed against the obscure environmental protection agency rule, which resulted in increased expenses and lower stock prices for cvr energy. analysts say icahn used his role with the trump campaign and later the administration to push to change the regulation.

amy: according to the magazine, and the months after the election, stock price of cvr nearly doubled which meant icahn 's on will observed. by one paper, -- on paper, but at least half $1 billion. for more, we're joined by tyson slocum. welcome baback to democracy now! talk about the significance of who carl icahn is and what exactly he didid during his rein as trump's advisor on regulatory reform. >> carl icahn come billionaire investor, chairman of the board of a holding company called icahn enterprises, which in turn controls shares of a couple dozen or so large corporations withholdings around the world, he is a long interesting relationship with donald trump. they're both new yorkers. carl icahn at one point even bailed out trump entertainment,

which was the holding company for the to mohawk casino and other properties -- tosh mohawk casino and other properties. they had an interesting personal and professional relationship. during the presidential campaign, carl icahn was an early public supporter of donald trump. connect lee had a title in the campaign as a formal advisor to the trump campaign on a number of different regulatory and financial issues. at one point, donald trump even mention he would consider carl icahn to be treasury secretary. 2016 in the heat of the campaign, carl icahn wrote a letter to the obama environmental protection agency demanding that that agency change this obscure rule governing the renewable fuel standard. it was a bush era law that requires will refineries to

blend certain amounts of ethanol, mainly made from corn, so folks can put it in their cars and boats and other things. carl icahn saw himself disadvantaged other way the rule was written. small, independent refiners such as cvr energy -- i mean small in comparison to the huge vertically integrated oil companies like exxon and chevron and bp -- carl icahn's company did not have ethanol blending facilities. so he was forced to go out into the open market and buy credits. those credits, the price of that was largely determined by a trading market in what is known as renewable identification numbers. carl icahn was losing those bets. he was forced to buy those credits at a high price. he wanted to change what is known as the point of obligation. he wanted to change the point at which he would have to buy those

credits so that he would not have to buy them anymore, basically. it is a a little complicated. he was trying to relieve his company of the obligation of having to buy these credits. juan: tyson, once president trump gets in the white house, this role that he gives to icahn of an advisor, but not really an employee of the government, the role he had then? >> this was significant. trump wins the election. on december 21 during the transition, president-elect from formally names carl icahn as a special advisor on regulatory policy for the president of the united states. titlecahn took that job and ran with it. even though, as you said, he was not a formal government employee, he had his official title. he was using this official title in filings is, these were making

to the securities and exchange commission.. in january and february, carl icahn was using this new title given them by president trump to initiate negotiation's with the renewable fuel industry. the companies that produced ethanol to try and force them to changecahn to's terms to the standard. amy: if you could explain what happened and his ouster or rather his leaving? >> basically, it appeared as though icahn had secured the support of the renault fuel industry -- renewable fuel industry. in february, he got the head of the renewable fuel association to agree in principle to a compromise that woululd change that point of obligatition so icicahn's refining company would not have to buy those credits anymore. companies like bp and

exxon were against icahn's change. they started pushing back really hard. amy: we have to

>> welcome to global 3000! today we head to cambodia, where we meet some young circus performers. can acrobatics lift them out of poverty? we accompany a marine biologist protecting giant manta rays off the coast of peru. but first we head to south sudan. where women on two wheels offer help and hope to local villagers. south sudan is the world's youngest nation. it was founded in 2011, following a decades-long civil