d down o ourhand songs, which still hanang on to hope and laughter. amy goodman: today, we pay tribute to yip harburg. the man who put the rainbow in the wizard of oz democracy now special. all that and more cocoming up. now!me to democracy i am a amy goodman. today, we pay tribute to yip harburg. his name may not be famililiar o many, bubut his songs are sung y millions around the world, like jazz singer abbey lincoln and -- ♪ >> bing crosby sang it. railroad, made a

race against time. i built a railroad, now it is done amy goodman: and tom waits. ♪ judy collins, and dr. john from new orleans, peter yarrow, -- .> they called meow -- al amy goodman: that's al jolson, and our beloved odetta. ♪ dime?an you spare a

♪ dime? ♪spare a ♪ amy goodman: "brother, can you spare a dime?" may well be a new anthem for many americans. the lyrics to that classic american song were written by yip harburg. he was blacklisted during the mccarthy era. during his career as a lyricist, yip harburg used his words to express anti-racist, pro-worker messages. he's best known for writing the lyrics to the wizard of oz, but he also had two hits on broadway: bloomer girls, about the women's suffrage movement, and finian's rainbow, a kind of immigrants' anthem about race and class and so much else. today, in this democracy now! special, we pay tribute to yip harburg's life. ernie harburg is yip's son and biographer. he co-wrote the book who put the

rainbow in the wizard of oz?: yip harburg, lyricist. i met up with ernie harburg at the new york public library for performing arts at lincoln center years ago when they are exhibiting yip harburg's work. ernie harburg took me on a tour. ernie harburg: the first place is business about words, and one of them is that the songs, when they w were written n ba in thte days, anyhow, alalways had a lylyrici a and a compoposer, and neitither one e of them m wrotee songng. ththey bh h wrote the e song. hohowever, i in the englisish language, you know, you have "this is gershwin's song," or "t"this is" " -- they y usuallyy the cocomposer's's song. i've rararely everer heard s soy sasay, "thisis is yip p harburgs song" " or "ira a gershwinin's " both of them wouldld be onong. the fact is,s, t peoeople writea song. so i'm going to talk about yip's lyrics and then lyrics in ththe songng. now the first thing we're looking at here is an expression

really of yip's philosophy and background, which he brings to writing lyrics for the songs. and what it says here is that songs have always been man's anodyne against tyranny and terror. the artist is on the side of humanity from the time that he was born a hundred years ago in the dire depths of poverty that only the lower east side in manhattan could have when the russian jews, about two million of them, got up out of the russian's shadows and ghettos, and the courageous ones came over here and settled in that area of what we now know as the east village. and yip knew poverty deeply, and he quoted bernard shaw as saying that the chill of poverty never leaves your bones.

and it was the basis of yip's understanding of life as struggle. amy goodman: let's go back to how yip got his start. ernie harburg: yip was, at a very early age, interested in poetry, and he used to go to the tompkins square library to read, and the librarians just fed him these things. and he got hooked on every one of the english poets, and especially o. henry, the ending. he always has a little great ending on the end of each of his songs. and he got hooked on w.s. gilbert, the bab ballads. and then, when he went to townsend high school, they had them sitting in the seats by alphabetical order, so yip was "h" and gershwin was " "g", so a sat next to yip. one day, yipip walked in with te bab baballads, and ira, , who ws very shy and hardly spoke with anybody, just suddenly lit up

and said, "do you like those?" and they got into a conversation, and ira then said, "do you u know there'sususic to that?" and yip said, "no." hehe said, "well, come on home." so they went to ira's home, which was on 2nd avenue and 5th street which is sort of upper from yip's poverty at 11th and c. and they had a victrola, which is like having, you know, huge instruments today, and played him h.m.s. pinafore. well, yip was just absolutely flabbergasted, knocked out. and that did it. i mean, for the both of them, becacause ira was intensely interested that thing, too. ♪ ♪

>> what, never? >> ♪ no, never >> what, never? ♪ ♪ ernie: that began their lifelong friendship. then ira went on to be one of the pioneers, with 25 other guys, jewish russian immigrants, who developed the american musical theater. and it was only after -- in 1924, i think, that ira's first show with george gershwin, his brother, that they started writing together. ♪

amy goodman: the gershwins' porgy and bess in 1940. ♪ b babhush, l ltle n't you cry ♪ ere harbur yip's ceer to a ki of deur, becae when thwar, wor w war icameme a yip was a cicialisand did no lieve inin thear, , heook aa boatatown to uruguay f three yeyears. i meme, he refed to fight in ththe thg. that'shahades 196968 d the etnam war, right amy goodn:n: andhy d didt he believe world war i? ninie haurg:g: bause h hwas a full, deep-dyed socialiswhwho did nonobelieve that capalism was the answer tthe huma

community and that indeed it was the destruction of the human spirit. and he would not fight its wars. and at that time, the socialists and the lefties, as they were called, bolsheviks and everything else, were against the war. and so, when he came back, he got married, he had two kids, and he went into the electrical appliance business, and all the titime hanging out with ira a ad george and howard dietz and buddy de sylva and writing light verse for the f.p.a conning tower. and the newspapers used to carry light veverse, ery n newaperer. there wewere aut t twey-fivevef them at ththatime, not twowo or three now w ned by twowo peoplen the woworld, you know. and d they actctually carried dt verse. well, yip and ira and dorothy parker, the whole crowd, had light verse in there, and, you

knknow, they l loved it. so, when the c crash came e and yip'p's businessss went under, d he wasas about anywhere from $50,000 to $70,000 in debt, his partner went bankrupt. he didn't. he repaid the loans for the next 20 or 15 years, at least. ira and he agreed that he should start writing lyrics. amy goodman: let's talk about what yip is most known for: finian's rainbow, the wizard of oz. right here, what do we have in front of us? ernie harburg: we have a lead sheet. we are in the gallery of the lincoln center for the performing arts, and there's an exhibition called "the necessity of rainbows," which is the work of yip harburg. and we are looking at the lead sheet of "brother, can you spare a dime? " which came from a revi caed americana, which -- it was the fit t revi, whwhicwas -- h a a policalal tme to o : at thahat timethe noti o of th forgotten ma

yoyohave tremember what the great presessi was all about. itit hard to igine t tt now. but t wh rooseselt said, ne-third of the nation are l-clothe ill-housed an ilfed," th's e exaly whahait was. therwas ateastst 30 peenent unemploynt a at ose e tis. anamong blks andinorities, itas 50, 6percen and therwewere badlilineand ---- no t the ric y you kw, k kep livi t theirifesesty, butt broadway was ruced to ouout 12 musisils a year from por, in ththe'2020 about 5a year, ok? so it came harr. but ththe greadedepreson w was deep dn n a fa of f li in everybo's nd.. and all e songs re censored i i use that loosely --y the sisic puishehers theynlnly waed l lovsongs s

esca s songsso t thain 19292 yohad "hpy days e here ain," anyou haall of the kinds of songs. there wasn't one song that addressed the depression, in which we were all living. and this show, the americana show, yip was asked to write a song or get the lyrics up for a song which addressed itself to thbreadlines, ok? and so, heat that meme, wa working very close with ja gorney. jahad a ne, whiche had brght ov with hiwhen he was eighyeyears d from rsia, d it wasn a mimir key, which is a wholeifferent k. st popul songs a in majo and was aussian llaby,

d it was da, d da, da, da, da, , da, da and jay y had -- somebody elsesd lyrics f for it: "once i kw w a g blonde, , and she had bibig be eyeyes. shwawas biblueue" -- like e at. d it was a torch song, o whh we tald abouou and yip said"well, cld we throw thwords ou a and'll takehe tune? " alrigh d if youook at y's notes which e in theook that mentiod, you'lsee he srted ouwriting very satic medic so. athat time, rockefeller, the ancit one, w going around givi o outimes to o ople, , d head a - -- yihad a satic thing out "c i s sharey dime wi y you? " " yoknow? t then, right the middldl otheimimagestatartedomininout ininis writitis, and you had a man in a mill, and the whole thing turned i into the song tht we know it now, which is here and which i can read to you. and if you do this song, you

have to do the verse, because that's where a lot of the action is. amy goodman: can you sing it to me? ernie harburg: alrightht, i'll try. it won't be as good as bing crosby or tom waits. [singiging] theyey used to telle i was buililding a dreream, and so i followed the mob, whenen there wasas earth t to pw or guns toto bear, i was alwaysys there riright on thehe job. they used toto telmeme i was buililding a dream, wiwith peacend gloryry ahead,,

why y should i be andiding in why shouldld i be standing in line, jujust waiting for breadad? ♪ yip harburg: [singing] once e i built a railroad i made i it run, made it race against time. once i built a railroad; now it's done. buddy, can you spare a dime? ♪ amy odman: y harburginging in 1975. yip rbrburg:singngin once i built a towe to t sun, ick and vet and li; once i built that tower; now w it's done. brother, can y you spare a dimi? ♪ amy goodman: when was this song first played? ernie harburg: in 1932.

and in the ameriricana review, evevery critic, everybybody toot up, and it swept the nation. in fact, paradoxically, i think roosevelt and the democratic party really wanted to tone it down and keep it off the radio, because playing havoc with trying to not talk about the depression, which everybody did. you remember the hoover thing, not only "happy days are here again," but "two chickens in every pot," and so forth. nobody wanted s sing ouout th depressi e eithe youou kw. amy goodman: yetyiyip haurgg was a supporteof fdrdr erniharburg:es. but potitics a pololits, you ow, , d the thing was that, in factct, storically, this was, woulsay, thenly songhat addrdrsed itse serious to the e eat depression, e condion of ourives, whh nobody wanted talk abt t and nonobodyanted d sing abt. amy goman: erniearburg, n ofip harbu.

when we co back fr our brk, we'llalk abt the wizard of oz, finian's rainbow and other shows. >> t times of confnfusion n like these, when all the world is a hopelessssumble and the raindrdrops tumblele all around heaven opens darken up theouds sky way, there is a lovely highway to be found leading from your windowow pane to a spot behind the sun just a step the on the rain somewhere over t the rainbow [applause] ♪ way up high

ofre's a land that i heard -- in a lullaby somewhere over the rainbow skies are blue and the trains that you dare to james really do come true someday, i'll wish upon a star and wake up where the clouds are far behind me where trouble melts like lemon drops high above the chimney tops that's where you'll find me somewhere over the rainbow bluebibirds fly fly over that rainbow why

then, oh why can't i? if any l little bird can flyy why,dnd the rainbow, , why, oh can't i? ♪ [applause] amy goodman: this is democracy --this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. ernie talks about how you part berg -- yip harburg wrote the lyrics to the wizard of oz. ernie harbururg: actually, y yid more than the lyrics. when they were -- when yip and harold arlen were called in to do the score of the wizard of oz, it was yip who hadad this executive experience in his electrical appliance business and also had become a show doctor, so he was -- thahat is,

when a show wasn't working, you would call somebody and try to fix it up. he had an overview of shows and he had an executive talent. and so, he was always what they called a "muscle man" in a s sh, alright? and he'd already worked withth bert lahr in a great song, "the odchopopper's song," and -- amyy goodman:n: wait a second. bert lahr, the lion? ernie harburg: the lion. bert lahr and most of these people were from vaudeville and burlesque. and yip knew them in the '20s, but he actually worked with bert lahr in this light -- walk a little faster and another review. i forget thananame, t hehe a -- yip a a arlenave e be songsgs sing,hich allow him to

tirizehe opera wld, if y nt, or send-off rich, y know. anso, theyad that relaonship. also, yiknew jachaley, t tin woman. and yialso word with bby connly as a oreograpr in thearly '30s onis showswho was so thehoreograer for e wizardf oz. he had cast herwith arl who we, you kn, sort o y's me you knowhat i me? so, wh yip wento artr freed,he produr, who w too bu to wo on this mical, d mervineroy h nothingo with it, acticall because he had never done a musical before, so it became a vacuum in whicich the lyricist entered, because he was all ready to do so. yip was always an active, you know, orgaganizer. and so, the first thing he suggested was that they integrate the music with the story, which at that time in hollywood they usually didn't do. they'd stop the story, and you'd sing a song. they'd stop the story and sing a

song. that you integrate this -- arthur freed accepted the idea immediately. yip then wrote -- yip and harold then wrote the songs for the 45 minutes within a 110-minute film. the munchkin sequence and into the emerald city and on their way to the wicked witch, when all the songs stopped, because they wouldn't let them do anymore. ok? you'll notice then the chase begins, you see, in the movie. amy goodman: why wouldn't they let them do anymore? ernie harburg: because they didn't understand what he was doing, and they wanted a chase in there. so, anyhow, yip also wrote all the dialogue in that time and the setup to the songs, and he also wrote the part where they give out the heart, the brains and the nerve, because he was the final script ediditor. and there was eleven screreenwriters on that. and d he pulled thwholole thingg totogether, , wrote his own lins and gave the t thing a coherence and a ununity, which made it a work of art.t. but he doesn't get credit for that.

he gets "lyrics by e.y. harburg," you see? but, nevertheless, he put his influence on the thing. amy goodman: who wrote the wizard of oz originally, the story? ernie harburg: yeah, frank l. baum was an interesting kind of maverick guy, who at one point in his life was an editor of a paper r in south dakota. and this was at ththe time of te populist r revolutionsns or rev, whateteveyou wawant to call i , in the midst, becausthe raroads d the eaern city bankabsolute domined the fe of thfarmers,nd they couldn't g away om the dts that we acculated from thes ananbaum setut consciouslyoo create an americanabable sthatat the american kids dn't havto ad those german grimm fayy sties,s, wre thehechopped off hands and things likththat you u ow, he didn't like that. he wand d an arican fae. t it had this underlay o litical mbolism it t th

thfarmer -the scarrow wass the rmer. he thohtht he s dudumbbut hehe ally wasn't; he d d a brn. and the n n woodn wawas e resu -- was e laborein the factors. with o a accidt afafteanothehe he w totally reduced to a ti man th n no art, a aight, on an aemembly ne.. and thcocoward lion wa willm jennnngs bryanwho kept trying -wawas a g polician at that time, omising makee the worlover witthe go standardyou kn? and the wizard, who waa a humb type, was the ll stree finces, and the ckeded wch waprobablyhe railrds, but i'not sure alright? so it waa a betiful l tch-up re wititfrank baum and yip harburg,k,k, becse i in e

book, the wo " "rainw" w was neveononce mtioned. and you cagogo bacand d lo at it. i did three times. ththe rd "rarabow" is never once meionened the b bk. and thbobook ons u up th dorothonon a bck-a-andhite world, that kans h had ncolor.r. justead the rsrst pagrapaph it. so, when ty y got thehe pt wherthey hado geget e song for ththlittle gl, they y ha't wrten itet. eyey hadrittttenverything el. they hadn'wrwrittethe e so for dy garland, , o was a scovery by one oyip's collaborors, burn lanene and d nody knew the wonder in her voe at that time. so they rkrked othisis sg, andnd at tt t timeira,a, y, larrrr hart andhehe oths ththout thatat the comperer shod crcrea the

muc first. now, ty y wereoth h loed intnt -- theyryricisand d thcomposos wereococked to t thetorylili and the chacacter d ththe ot develoenent. so they bothnenew th at t th point there s s a lile g girin trblble onhe k kans cityty environment,lrlrightand d th shyeyearneto g getut off trouble, aight? soip gave haroldhat th call "dummy tle." it not the nal title,ut it's somethinthat moror less zeroes in on what the situation is all about and what -- this little girl is going to take a journey, alright? so yip gave him a title: "i want to get on the other side of the rainbow." yip harburg: now, here's what happened, and i want you to play this symphonically! ok, i said, "my god, harold! this is a -- ♪

ok, i said, "my god, harold! this is a 12-year-old girl wanting to be somewhere over the rainbow. it isn't nelson eddy!" and i got frightened, and i said, "i don't -- let's save it. let's save it for something else. but don't -- let's not have it in." well, he felt -- he was crestfallen, as he should be. and i said, "let's try again." well, he tried for another week, tried all kinds of things, but he kept coming back to it, as he should have. and he came back, and i was worried about it, and i called ira gershwin over, my friend. ira said to him, he said, "can you play it a little more in a pop style?" and i played it, with rhythm. ok, i said, "oh, well, that's

great. that's fine." i said, "now we have to get a title for it." i didn't know what the title was going to be. and when he had [sings] dee-da-dee-da-da-da-da, [talking] i finally came to the thing, the way our logic lies in it, "i want to be somewhere on the other side of the rainbow." and i began trying to fit it: "on the other side of the rainbow." when he had a front phrase like daa-da-da-da-da -- now, if you say "eee," you couldn't sing "eee-ee." you had to sing "ooooh." that's the only thing that would get a -- and i had to get something with "oh" in it, see: "over the rain" -- now, that sings beautifully, see. so the sound fceced mento o th word "over," which w m much betttt than "on the other side judy glaland: ingiging somewhe e overhe r raiow way upigh,

there'a a landhat t i ard ofof once in lulullaby. ♪ ernie harbrbur anyhow,ip - -- arlen worked on it. he came up with this incredible music, which, if anybody wants to try it, just play the chords alone, not the melody, and you will hear pachelbel, and you will hear religious hymns, and you will hear fairy tales and lullabies, just in the chords. no one ever listens to that, but try it, if you play the piano. and at any rate, on top of these chords, then harold started the thing off with an octave jump: -- ♪

and at any rat o on toof t the chor, then hold stard d the thing off withn n octa jumum "somhehere" --k,k, a yip h h no ia a whato dodo wh that octave jum incidently, haro didid ts in par moon, o, if yo rememb. let's e how dithat sta? yiharbur [singing]t's only a par moon sailg over cardboardea but wouldt be make-lieve you belved in me e ♪ nie harburg: and hard was a great cooser.

so yip wreled witht for about threweeks,nd final came up wh the wo. you see, ts is whaa lyrist es: the wo, to hithe storyline,he charaer, th muc. it's an inedible tng. "some-ere." alrit, and tn whwhenou put ian octave, you get "somomwhere,ok, and you jump u and you'rready to take tt journey. alght? where? "o-v thehe rnbow."k? anthen you'rofoff! it's not love so. it's a sto of a lile girl at wants to geout. she's in trouble, anshe want to get somewrere. well, the ininbow s ththe ly cocor that she'd see in kans.. she ntnts toet o ovethe rainbow. but t en, yip put in something whwhicmakes s a yip song. heaid, "anththe drms you da t to drm rerely do coco true y you see

and atat wor"darare"ands on the note, and 's a perfect thing, and is s beenenereratg courage for peopleoror yea aftearards, u knknow judyararland[siningi] somewhere ov t the rnbowow skies e e blue anththe drmsms thayou u da to drea really do co t true. ernie haururg: tt's s thway that the whole srere cam amamgoodman: was it a hit ritt ayay? ernie e rburg: no, it wasn't. thisis w suppopod to be an answ, mgm's answer tsnsnow white and thseseven arveves,nd of about 10 jor crits s at th time wh t the ward d ofz came out, wowould y only t likeththe sh. the other eit t saidt wawas corny, that w was hvy, , th judy garla w was ngood, anso forth. , yeyeah you could adad aga in n th book, whpuput thraininboon the

wizard of oz? , , by hold d meyerson and eie haurg. bubuit persisted, you know? ananthen, in 1956, when tetelesionon fst started sasarating t n natio-- a amy goodman: morththan 2yearars late ernie harbg:g: morthanan 2 years later. i don't inink th eveven d their neney ba frorom e showow se mgm so t the fm ririgh to cbcb who thenut it t on and it hithehe topf ththe it broke out erery sile r recd therwas, and it's be p playi evevy year since then. an of course, it wt t arou the world,ndnd it'becocome mar artwor which i i must say, an amicican aworkrk, because the story, thelolot wi the three araracte, ththe ain, the heart,hehe couge, , an finding a ho i is a iverersa story for everybody. anand at's a aamerican kind of a sty, a alrht?

and yip d d haro putut tse things io o song amamgoodman: who did the nchkins presesen munchkins: [singing]ee presenenthe lollipop guild the lollip g guildthe e loipop ild.d. and in the name of the llilipop guilil.. ernie harburur oh, y y mean polilitil ththg? i ththk theyeyepresent the little people, you know, the oplele. anand at's theway they were -- it c ce on in the book. you see, the boo i if yore a a pupuri, you woul't l le the filmlm. it'susust li anynythg elsese there arsosociets ofof pple who meet and disssss theooksks. ok, erere's en a a siety f f the winks,s, whi arere t guards around the wieded witch's, younonow, ctle.e. there really is!hehey me oncnce a year. and they're seris! they n't like theicturerebecause dn't follothe booksee,

cause e p and thwrititer ananged , asas hlywood will. amy goodma was theooook a littleit more favorablto the winkies? ernie rburg:g:o -- wel yes! the winkies wereood peop,, anthey werplayed utherere. if you go ck and rd d the book, you ll see tt t they re a lovely, dect kikindf peop, , yes. ththatas o onehingng. i esess itasn'n't therereyou know bubu neverthess, w wn you read a good novel, and you see the fifilm, there's rdlyly a relalaonship between the two. all ese linefrom theilm have entered t america language ia a way at peopl don't even know erere th came from. you know, eeee, to, lolooklike we're not kansas ymymore. oryou know, "come t,t, com out, wherer r you e," " whh in the '70s srtrted ting g onwhen the gay moventnt staed, , th line start m meani dififfent

thgsgs, yosee?e? gldada: [sgiging] me o outcome out, wherever yoarare and meme the young lady, who ll f froa starar ♪ erniharburg: sthe songkeep gring withhe tim. peoplenterpr them, younow? amgoodman: h did yipeel in thlate 1950swhen it s a t, when pele start heari all over e worl ernie haurg: wel i thi they we quite rprised, ang wi the film guls, u know, and the fa that years a years late he anharold bh said tt theyid not kw what deptand streth thathat songover t rainbowhad. and so, one her on the songding! ng! the tch is de" is aniversal leratio a eedom, c for fedom, you know, which isn'seseen le that, t t it -one e ti, whenen some tanannicaownener an airlin c compa stetepp down,n, all e e emplees s stted

singing "ding! dg!g! theitchch is dead." soeoeople e ththeswords.s. ♪ anduring t war, wod wawar ii, e'e're offo o sethe wizard" was ngng by oopsps marching, you know? t nonobo knows tt yip p ote the word you see. nonow, hard wrote e e musi andnd the ngs wereip and hold. that'st. ♪ >> this democra now!, mocracyn.org, thwar and peace rert. i'amy goman. ifou would le a copyf day'sh, you cago to r webse at demracynow.g. ck in a mite. when we we young

e was a song a song unsung life was so new, so real, so right ages ago last night old , the world is you flew away and time grew cold where is that star that shone so bright

ages ago last night? to think that spring had depended on merely this: a look, a kiss to think that something so splendid could slip awaway in one l litte daybreak amy goodman: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodmaman. as we continue on our tour

through the life of lyricist yip harburg with his son ernie harburg. ernie harburg: we're walking through the gallery here at the lincoln center for the performing arts, which has "the necessity of rainbows," dedicated to the works of yip harburg, the lyricist. and we're now looking at the various exhibitions. and while we're looking for finian's rainbow, i want to tell you that in 1944, yip conceived and co-wrote the script and put on a show called bloomer girl, which was way ahead of its time, because bloomer girl was dolly bloomer, who was an actutual suffragette in 1860 who stood up and invented pants. and it was radical in those days. and the show was about dolly bloomer, and she ran an underground railroad, bringing slaves up,p, and she had ann undergrod d paper, andnd she was an incredible woman. and this was a political show. some great songs in there.

maureen mcgovern does "right as the rain" in a great way. lena horne does "eagle and me," which was the first song on broadway that wasn't a blues lamentation about the black-white situation. it was a call to action. "we gotta be free, the eagle and me." ok? and dooley wilson, who was in casablanca, sang that. >> ♪ we've got to be free me ♪agle and earnie: so, again, yip managed to get his philosophy into his show, which was the second truly integrated american musical after oklahoma. and while, you know, it hasn't been played around, it's still marked that historically.

ter that came fian's rainbo amy goman: youean blac and whes playi in the st. nie harbg: no, n in there. in finian'rainbow, mean th it was politic stateme. bloomegirl was politic stement, a it was smash hi in 1946,ip conceed the ia, the sty, the sipt for finian rainbowwhich wa meanto be anti-raci and, in a ctain sse, antiapitalist show also. amgoodmama let's fd itit. nie harbg: alrig, let's go. amgoodman:et's fd finian's rainbow. ere harbg: here's bin in the y, whichs the fit all-ack hollywd filmn the '40s, which yip and harold did also. "happiness is just a thing called joe." here's bloomer girl that i'm talking about. so, we should be, somehow, coming onto finian's rainbow. but here's yip here.

there's a video of yip talking, if you want to meet the man. interviewer: you got into political trouble in this country at a time when a lot of people got into political trouble, during the mccarthy years. were you blacklisted? yip harburg: thank god, yes. interviewer: during that mccarthy period, were they actually going through your lyrics with a fine-toothed comb looking for lines that might be subversive, that might show yip harburg's true political colors? yip harburg: yes. i wrote a song for cabin in the sky, which ethel waters sang and was part of the situation in the picture. here was a poor woman who had nothing in life except this one man, joe, and she sang, "it seemed like happiness is just a thing called joe." one of the producers, with not a macroscope, but a microscope, found in this lyric that "happiness is just a thing called joe" was a tribute to joe

stalin. we're kidding about it now, but the country, this was the blackest, the blackest and darkest moment in the history of this beautiful country. ♪ ♪ christmas everywhere and life isy away easy go does he e love me good? has to know

seem like happiness is just a thing called joe ♪ ernie harburg: now, here we are at finian's rainbow at last. and this was -- yip conceived this in 1946. and fred saidy, who was his co-script writer -- and harold arlen demurred from writing this, because he felt that yip was too fervent in his political opinions, and he wanted -- harold wanted to do something else. so yip got burt lane and then came out with this great, great score from finian's rainbow, "old devil moon." ♪ that you stole from the sky it's that old devil moon in your eye ♪ >> "how arare things in glococca

morra?a?" etc. but the ththeme of finian'n's wa total fantntasy, and it was s an amamerican fable in n which anan irishman a and his daughghter ce from ireland, searchch around ad find rainbow v valley in "missitucky." ok? and he belelieves that if he plants the c crock of gold, whih he stole f from the leprhahaun,n the ground, that it wi g grow, just like at fort knox, right? the whole thing was fabulous! and then, the southern white senator, a very stereotypic part, finds out that finian has this land and tries to run him out of town, because there's -- ♪ ♪

across the sea how are things brook stillle leaving there? does it still aroundd -- run don to donnie co- , rough kelly eggss howevever thingsgs in glocca mo? ♪

and then, the southern whit senator, a very ststereotypic partrt, finds out that finiaians this ld and tries s to run h him out t of town, because therere's blacks and whihites living together, and, you know, they'ye ararecropperers. and d they claim that finian's daugughter is a witch, and theye going toto burn her at the stak, and all sosorts of increblee things that sasay something abot the americanan scene but the scscore was so great t t people who see i it do not see t as a sociaialist tractct, whiche only one o on brdway; they s see it as a very, , very entntertaig musical and uniqique in amamerin musicals, becacause, in the firt place, trere areery,y, vy few musicalshihich a origigil. most musalals aradapaptefrom books, and ts s was st concved byred sasay and yip as a saticic senff o on ericanan society. so, you've gotot this great sosg

in here, "when t the idle poor become the i idle rich,"," h are you gogoing to know whwho is whr who is which? ok, you know, like that. and so, finian's rainbow has become a classic. ♪ >> ♪ you will never know which is which what a switch when we all have her mind and plastic teeth. how will we determine who's who underneath? and when all your neighbors are upper class, you won't know your joneses from your astors, let's toast the day, the day we drink that drinkie

up, but with the little pinkie up, the day on which, the idle poor become the idle rich. ♪ now, it's interesting that finian's has not had a tour, a national tour,r, since 1948. t t they plalay it in every sine high school in t the united states, three e or four times a month in e every state of the unn. so, finian's was, at t t time, 1947, when t c cold r was beginning anththe hoe unmeriricacommmmite wass starting up, and thewewere searching fofoleftie and by 1951,ipip hadeenn blacklisted omom any chance to any of the wonderful shss that thedidid inollylywo, dr.. doolite,e, treure e isnd. he was bckcked fm woworkg there. and thth he was ococked from going in r radiond into . soso -- and this is an historicl

fact which yip himself says -- broadw and themerican theatein new yk city w the only pcece whe an n arst couou stand up andayay whaver r wanted, provided he got the money putut t show w . so, fofinian'sainbow, they had d to have 25 auditions,, because theyey said it was a commie red thing. and finally, they got the money up, and they put the show up. but by that time, yip was blacklisted. and his next show was jamaica with lena horne, with an all-black cast. one other thing, in terms of yip's drive for race or ethnic equality, and that is that finian's rainbow in 1947 was the first show on broadway where the chorus line consisted of blacks and whites who danced with each other, and the chorus was an integrated affair.

amy goodman: what happened to him during the mccarthy era? ernie harburg: well, he could not work on any major film that they wanted him to work on from the major studios in hollywood. the setup was that roy brewer, who was the head of the iatse union -- i'm sorry to say that -- was the one who -- amy goodman: what do you mean? ernie harburg: well, i mean this is a stagehands' union. i'd like to say good things about unions, but they get bureaucratized, and they go right-wing, you know? they get bad. this was a bad leader, and he terrorized all of the jewish moguls who were being accused of communism by the house un-american activities committee, and they yielded to whatever he said to them, out of fear that they would get branded as communists or that they'd boycott the film, alright? and soso, when, you know, they call yip in to do huckbeberry

fi with burt lane,hehen roy and the guys said, "no, he's on our blacklist, ok? and you can't hire him." and then yip went away. and theyananted m toto wk on dr. doolite.e. o, yououan't hire him." and e sasamehing f f radio and tv. and that was kno a as a,uote, "blackli,"," whi wasasn'-- that wasn'ththe fit t use thehe rm, bebeuse in sll towns we had compy y corpatioionsoing,, if you d s sometng that e compy y didn likike,ou werer blacisisted om t tow you couldn'tetet a j in n to. but this washehe fir timime,ue to the technoly,y, thaa blacklist wananation andnd accoananied a l load wordrd "communist," that uld get uu fid anypypce. r yip,t was hoible, becaushis fries, who we artist suddenly had no incom

and therwere suides. there wadivorc. there were people who ft t the country. the were people whoslives were just ruined. and so, yip pppportesomeme o them. daon truo, whoho w onene o e hohollood d tewho we f first pick oututy the hous un-americaacactivies commiee to go toaiail foa year, cicition. "are you nowr r have y ever been a member the comninist party?" u know, p p frond hiwiwith mey, , anso foror. it w a a horble time amy gomaman: h lonong uldn't't yip work for? ere e harbg: f forbout f fm 1951 t1962. he came back to hollywood in 1962, when he and harold arlen did gay paris, which is with judy garland. she asked them to come back. and it's a cult animated cartoon now, which you can get in your

video. and i remember him putting on a show at the taber auditorium. "welcome back, yip," you know? and he -- in '62. amy goodman: but that means that the wizard of oz made it big during the time that he was blacklisted. that was -- and when you consider the social commentary that it was making, that's pretty profound. ernie harburg: yeah, but i don't think hardly anyone knows the political symbolism underneath the wizard of oz, because, again, it's a thing that happens in finian's rainbow, even though as peter stone, a noted playwright on broadway, said, "it's the only socialist tract ever on broadway." alright? people don't hear the political message in it, ok? they are vastly entertained. the same thing happens with the wizard. you kn, , nobo wououldven think of such a ining. yip rbrburg:y sosong likee "wheththe id poooor come t t idle rich" a " "brotr, c canou spare a dime c causea grgrea deal of fur r duri a p perd in hollywood when felellow by t the name of joe mccarthyhy was

reigning supreme. and , , they gotot somethihing p for people to o take care e of , like me, called the blacklist. and i i landed on the e enemy l. and d in order to ovovercome the enemy list - what wawas the eney list? well, it's, one, that you u wera red; anothther one, that you w e a blnonose; d ththe her onon that you're t the bcklilist finally, ihohoughthe r raiow was a wonderful syolol of l these liststs. in order to overcome the enemy list and this rainbow that they gave me the idea for, i wrote this little poem: lives of great men all remind us greatness takes no easy way, all the heroes of tomorrow

are the heretics of today. socrates and galileo, john bwnwn, theau,u, cist anan debs heard e night y y "dowwithth aitors!" and the wnwn sho "upup t rebs nothing ev s seemso bubusthem -- gallows,rorossesprisisonars; tho'e e try reaeadjt themem there they a a amonghe s sta. lives of great men all remind us we can write our names on high and departing leave behind us thumbprints in the fbi. rainbow"re over t^hhe playing] amy goodman: today's program was actually produced for radio in 1996 with errol maitland and dan coughlin. special thanks to gary helm, brother shine and julie drizen. and moxie -- democracy now! is

produced by -- special thanks -- thank you so much for joining us. ♪

in 2012, aja: scientist and they found the god particle, and yet we have no evidence except the collision of values, most of what we know and how we see ourselves is determined by five western countries, five of which theymine value by how well kill others, and we are out here screaming "black lives matter," as an exist or takes up space, toms and m math. isn't there funny irony there, i am