hello. welcome back to our special coverage of a developing story in the southwest of the country where at least two have been shot dead during what appears to be a hostage-taking situation in the southwestern town. we understand the incident

started at 11:00 this morning. it is an ongoing, developing story. with me in the studio is catherine norrison trent who has been scouring social media to get a sense of where we are at with the story. what do you know? >> it is still very fluid. officially, little has been confirmed. this is what w we know. earlier, there, was talk of two suspects, one suspect is holololololololololo. earlier, it is believed the suspect fired on four policemen jogging in ththe siegeo a small supermarket whehere shots were heard. r reporting two

people have been killed in the supermt.t.t. that has not been officially confirmed. witnesses have seen people lying immobilized on the floor inside the supermarket, which would information. we have been told the suspect is alone in the supermarket. that has not been confirmed by officials on the scenene. theyey say that the situation remains volatililililililililill take to mean the fact suspect has not yet been neutralized or brought under control. the french terrorism prosecutor has taken over the p p p p p p . earlier we heard in several media outlets that the hostage having t taker claimeded allegie to the islamic state group. anchor: i am s sorry to interrut you. we have heard from the security

and terrorism expert. he has been telling people according to his sources that the attacker has not switched allegiance. >> it shows the fluid nature of it was reported earlier by officials off the record and on french television, local/national media here. we have to be careful with this information. shows s s s s s s s s s s s s t. we do knowow the french interior minister is heading down there, and the french authorities are treating this as a potential terror threat. we don't know if this man is anye, if he i i i i i i i i i i terror group structure, or if he has officially pledged allegiance to any of those groups. widely reported in media. perhaps now backpedaling on that. we will wait and see if this person is related to that organization. anchor: let's take a listen to what the french prime minister had to say earlier about the incident.

situation is unfolding in the south of france. gunshots have been heard. a man has apparentlyyyyyyyyyyyyd himself in a supermarket. he might have taken hostages. the police o operation is underway. .t is a serious situation i may have to leave this meeting. anchor: we were listening to the french prime minister devoping . in incidents of this nature, facts change by the hour if not the minute. joining me now is ththththththtt been confirmed that he has

claimed allegiance to the islamic state group. it does come at a time when one has the gup is clos to being routed in parts of syria it occupied. >> it is true their zone of operations has shrunk spectacularly. however, french authorities veve been stressing the last few months the threat is still very real and should not be taken lightly. in fact, there was a big interview in french media with he was talkinge prosecutorat t, about the nature of this threat highlighting two spepecific dimensions. one was s returning jihadistsrom syriria aniraq. he gave figures. year, just2017, last under 180 french citizens who

had been fighting with jihadist groups had come back from syria and iraq. andwo had comome back in early 2018. obobviously, this s could hahave there may have been even more returnees. the french state prosecutors said let's not be naïve. they say they no longer believe in but whave to take that with some skepticism because their deep convictions may have remained. we don't know what ththey are really thinking or feeling or whether they have desire to still do hararto other f french the other dimensioion he was highlighting was the homegrown jihadist aspect. in other words, people who have from a seniorsyria or iraq andt member of isis some years ago to

take matters into one's own hands, not bothering to train in a paramilitary-styleeeeeeeeeeeef nice july 14.in llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll threres acrdining to frehh authorities.s. anchor: nice thanks for that we w will come back to you and asking more questions about this ongoing story. for those of you just joining us, we are getting reportss a rt of the ongoing hostage-taking situation in the southwestern toto. the prime m minister sasaid it s regardeded by officials as an at we believe it began at 11:00 a.m. with an exchange of gunfire between the gunman and a police officer in the town that is home to a large military base.

joining us on the phone from london is a counterterrorism expert in specialist on hostage negotiations. as we always say in the situations, this is a developing story. what would be happening now in terms of police and the person believed to be still in the supermarket? right now hason the vast majority of hostages released. that means they have closed off all the local area around this ensure they can contain the situation and prevent members of the general public unwittingly walking into what i is now an incident scene.

different units will have been deployed. raid will include gign and to coordinate. they are well-practiced in terms of hostage tactal response if necessary. understand from the intelligencefatalities, and thes will a always adjust because thy ,ill be gathering intelligence but control the information coming from the scene because you can never discount the fact that the perpetrator may have access to radio or tv and be trying to gather information as to what the other side may be doing. this is

happening in the back streets of a small country town in a relatively remote part of the country. how difficult is it logiststicay to get those peopl t togetherr o secure the situation and start a proper negotiation? >> as we have seseen over the lt few years, individuals that have placed allegiance to islamic state have carried targeting in remote towns and villages and not necessarily in paris or nice. they will have spread themselves quite wide to tactically respond as quickly as they can to virtuallanywhere in the country. inevitably, there will be down to the locals to control the scene initially until special units can turn up. there are a few tactical locations nearby where specialist units are positioned. their r response would have been quite quick in being able to get to the scene.

they will noberyryining to strike a dialogue. went to stand the perpetrator -- we understand the perpetrator is holding a member of police as one of the hostages. it is unclear what firearms he may be carrying. we understand he could be carrying grenades. they will want to tread to stririke up a passive dialogogue initially to determre they have to take more d decisie action. that would only be a last r rest or if they believe their fellow officer is in jeopardy. anchor:joining us, i'm speakinga counterterrorism specialist based in london. we have been seeing imamages of the southwestern where a hostage situation is underway.

there are reports of two peoeope killed. most of theports stststages have been released except for a gunman and a police officer who is an expert on hostage negotiations. the kinds offyou clearly have f expertise in this area. would they be trying to create a get asvel of contact to much information a as possible? what would be the stance of hostage negotiators as they talk to the individual? >> it is a very fine balancing act. they h have confirmed the hostae taker made claims he was a soldier of the daesh and this action was in vengeance for actions by france in syria.

somne who is going to be in a volatile e stae of mind. thee injuries and fatalities, hw , hastetetetetetetetetetetetete. they w will want to determine tt quickly to establish common ground to opening up a dialogue. the key objective for negotiators willll be to try and find common ground. an be madede to ensure the safety of the officer. the safety of the officer is of paramount importance. they have evacuated everybody else from around the area. for this individual was to if this themselves -- individual was to detonate themselves, that would be less of a consideration. because there is a police officer and a hostage,nt tprevtg that by whatever means possible. a tactical response is always going to be the last resort. anchor: stay with us.

i want to recap for people just joining us reports indicating a group of antiriot police officers were fired upon this morning. we are hearing reports of six shots fired. one was reportedly injured in others were not from thetototoe area but based in marseille and on a temporary mission nearby. the gunman taking shehelter at a supermarket i itrebes, taking a reported eight people as hostages according to police sources yet to be confirmed. local mediaa reports indicate te government and the mayor said he has declared allegiance to the islamic state group. according to the mayor, the supermarket's another person was also killed.

these are yet to be confirmed details. we know the french interior ministry has requested the m media outlets n not to spread rumorors. the french primeme minister hahs declareded it to be e an act of terrrrorism. i amam joioined from london by l geddes, an expert in counterterrorism. we have been talking about the logistics of negotiating a difficult situation. a single person holding a police offificer hostage. it is all speculation. are we looking at possibly a lone wolf attack? it stresses the difficulty for police and other security agencies keeping track of people who could carry out such acts.

this has happened in a small, remote town in the souththththth one of the things they will be looking to do with the intelligence agencies will be to try to determine the identity of this individual. there is such a thing as a lone wolf or lone them, as i prefer to call because there will be some degree ofororororororororororory individuals they may have mixed with. they will be looking to establish their identity to ascertain whether they are acting in isosososososososososof the greatest fears any counterterrorism force will have is that you may have subsequent attacks elsewhere by other e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e ey the perpetrator. when they have identified who they are, that will give them

some appreciation as to the capability they could be up against. their will be a number of other factors that will be intrinsic to their current investigations in terms of not only controlling the environment but also trying to get eyes into that location to determine the state of mind of the individual.l.l.l.l.l.l.ln qualify over communications. it may be a case of determining where and how they can isolate these communications, whether it may be by them, whether it is br own cellphone, but one also has to consider you want to restrict communications because if they communication with other parties, you want to deny them that capability. let's go across to catherine who has been covering

the summit. brusselsmacron in today. have we heard anything from macron's people? are we expecting him to make a statement at this point? from are expecting to hear emmanuel macron in the next 15 minutes. we have just been toldld he was nott t t t t t t t t t t t t t e tas this morning when they were talking about brexit negotiations because he was dealing with the situation in southwest france. emememememememememememememememe not commenting on domestic affairs when he comes to european summits. of course, this being an exceptional event. to g g g g g gnfnfnfnfnfnfnfnfnn in ter of the european side of the story, security hahas come o

the fore for the european union in recent years with attacks in france and belgium. yesterererererererererery y y yn the metro and airport in brussels. many of the leaders here were wearing white ribbons to commemorate that in talking about paying reform has gone on at the european level in terms of security, including tightening up security with the europe. those measures being strengthened. the european union has brought in name records so we know who is on flights around the european union. measures in plae dealing with taking down online join terrorls to organizations.

th is starting to have an effect. issue ofint out the security has been brought up by theresa may...................wn solidarity yesterday over the poisoning of the russian spy in southwest england. theresa may came here hoping to get a strong message of you --ur states pointing the finger of blame at the russian federation. did manage to achieve that -- she did manage to acachieve tha. he was sn as a pitive for the u.k. and european union showing they can hold together on important matters eveven with brbrexit coming between them in political l areas. wewe will be crossing live to hr what french president emmanuel macron has to say. we are expecting to hear from

him in the next 15 minutes or so on this ongoing situation. , sheng me in the studio has been keeping an eye on developments. take us through what happened this morning. >> these are the facts we have managed to piece together. some of them not confirmed officially. toe of them according security officials and eyewitness so we can see them as more solid. this morning, a man and a car opened fire on a group of french police out jogging. one of the officers was injured, shot in the shoulder. not seriously injured. that same car with the suspect fled in the direction of the supermarket in the small town of trebes in southwestern france. severalhohohohohohohohohohohohod fired.

we have reports of a number of people injured. sources say two people have been killed in the shooting. that has not been officially confirmed. butt two people -- eyewitnesses didid see at least two peopople line in mobilized n the supermarket for, so that would seem to confirm that information. ththe situation is still not stabilized. of officers and security personnel have been rushed to the scene. french counterterrorism prosecutors have taken over the investigation into this. the french prime minister has terror.his an act of the prime e minister is heading there e as we s speak. some security sources are saying the shooter is alone inside the supermarket. that information has not been

officially confirmed at this stage. reported r several minutes now without being officially contradicted. it would seem to be the case some of the hostages have been evacuated d d d d d d d d d d ds a fast-moving situation, very fluid. earlier, it was attributive to prosecutors that he claimed allegiance to the islamic state. therhahas been some backpedaling on that. our own terrorismsm expert sayse does not have that information, that the suspect has pledgdgdgdg it is unknown at this stage whether the e suspect was workig inside a known terror structure or was perhaps working on his own. that is a line of v v v v v v vy tive athe moment. anchor: thank you.

let me bring in will get us -- will geddes, a counterterrorism expert based in londodon. out push now is to find who is the gunman, what motivated him. how difficult is it to access that information so quicklyly wn lives are at stakeke? puts a lot of pressure on the officers, doesn't it? >> it does, but they are experienced to keep thehehehehe. they will try to keep their visibility down to the minimum. anything that could antagonize the hostage-taker will be downplayed as much as inevitable individuals are volatilele. they c cld be aideded by some chemical enhancement or narcotic

. itit is difficulult to say at te until they can determine at identitity whether there is any history of mental illness. i heard in a new report there are contradictory claims that this individual may not be representative of islamic stata. we have seen this before where islamic state may take claim that this is a soldier or supporter of daesh. we saw this one year ago one-year on the anniversary of the westminster attack. claims he was s doing it for , yet known toism be associated to him. it is an ambiguous term. individual may have made claimss vocally to witnesses. whether there is direct correlation may be relevant in terms of the tactics they want to employ, but not necessarily

in terms of the wider threat. anchor: in terms of the investigation at the mpopower bg to neutralize the situation without further loss of life. same timetrying to establish who this person is and why he decided to do what he did. whatat sort of resources with te french police be w working with? how many people are involved in a situation like this? >> i would be hesitant to go into fine detail on that. bet's just say it would all the blue-line services coordinating. well toludes police, medics, ensure they can control the situation in terms of explosives andd casualties obtained through the incident t and so they can

to evacuate them to the medical facility near nearby -- nearby and provide t the

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