from pacifica this is democracy >> now. >> i believe i would get along very nicely with putin. amy: a russian gun activist who publicly questioned donald trump

at an event two years ago remains in jail in washington accused of being a russian agent who infiltrated the nra and other grououps. was maria butina parart of a russian effort to use the nra to help elect donald trump? we will get the latest. then department of homeland security secretary kirstjen nielsen is facing criticism over her recent comments about last year's deadly white nationalist protests in charlottesville. >> it's not that one side is right and one side is wrong. anyone that is advocating violence, we need to mitigate. amy: we will speak to kathleen belew, author of "bring the war home: the whwhite power movement and paramilitary america." all that and more coming up. welcome to democracy now, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. president trump's national security adviser john bolton has reiterated trump's threats to iran, only one day after trump tweeted, "to iranian president

hassan rouhani: never, ever threaten the united states again or you will suffer consequences the likes of which few throughout history have ever suffered before." on monday, bolton doubled down, saying, "president trump told me that if iran does anything at all to the negative, they will pay a price like few countries have ever paid before." alalso on monday, trump sasaid e was not concerned about prprovoking iran. >> not at all. not at all. amy: to see our coverage of the trump administration's escalating threats against iran, go to democracynow.org. the trump adadministration may hahave deported upup to 463 pars of children n separated by immigration offificials at the border, even as their children remain in us custody. a federal judge has ordered the administration t to reunite all separated migrant children a and parents s by july 26, that's

thursday. but new government filings rereveal nearly 50500 of these parentntare no longeger in the country. in total, at least 1,700 children are still in us custody, waitingng to be reunitd with t their parents. to see our full coverage of the family separation crisis go to democracynow.org. satellite images show north korea has begun dismantling a missile-engine test site, apparently fulfilling one of north korean leader kim jong-un's promises to president trump during their historic summit in singapore last month. the site is believed to play a role in north korea's development of liquid-fuel engine, although it's unclear how much the site's facilities were still beieing used. president trump has threatened to strip a half dozen former national security officials of their security clearances, as he continues to lash out at former officials who have crititicized his refusal to confront russia over its alleged meddling in the 2016 us election.

this is white house press sarah huckabee sanders. >> not only is the president looking to take away security clearance, he is looking at the clearances of clapper, rice, comey. amy: none of them have security clearances. stripping the officials of their clearance would constitute an unprecedented use of presidential authority to punish political rivals. high-ranking military and national security officials often retain their security clearances even after they leavy clearances. their jojobs, which often helps them gain employment in the private sector. a federaral judge has delayed start t date for the trial of former trump campaign chairman paul manafort, who faces charges of tax fraud, bank fraud, money laundering, witness tampering , and failing to register as a foreign agent. his trial will

on july 31. the judge also agreed to grant immunity to five witnesses who are slated to testify y in the trial. in greece, nearly 50 people have died as uncontrollable w wildfis swept through neighborhoods outside the capital city the tuesday. blazes were the worst fires in more than a decade, and come amid a month of deadly climate-fueled weather across the world. this is a resident. >> the fire was lightning fast. we didn't realize what had happened. it was the first time i've seen something like this. colony,like a bee everyone standing next to each other. i would like to see some response from the tate -- state. amy in more climate change news, : a staggering 41 different heat

records have been broken in the united states so far in july alone. and a new study published in the journal nature climate change predicts climate change and warming temperatures will cause suicide rates to rise, warning up to 26,000 more people could die by suicide in the united states by 2050 if humans don't reduce emissions of greenhouse-gas pollution. in somalia, militants with the group al-shabab say they killed 27 government soldiers when they attacked a military base near the southern port city of kismayo monday. the somali military says it then retook control of the base in a fierce battle that killed 87 militants.[1737]philippines in the philippines, president rodrigo duterte has vovowed to continue his bloody war on drugs, despite massive protests and international condemnation. this is duterte speaking during his third annual state of the nation address monday. the drug war will not be

sidelined. relentless and as the day you will it began. amy: human rights watch says over 12,000 filipinos have died as a result of duterte's war on drugs, at least 4,000 killed by police and the rest killed by armed vigilantes. in burma, jailed reuters journalistst wa lone, who helped expose the burmese military massacre of rohingya muslims, has accused the police of framing him, handing him documents he had not sought only minutes before he and his colleague, kyaw soe oo, were arrested in december. these documents are being used by burmese prosecutors are evidence to argue the two journalists have violated the colonial-era official secrets act, which carries up to 14 years in prison. the two journalists have been jailed since dececember. in a rare interview, nicicaragun presidenent daniel ortega has rejected calls to step down from

power, amid mounting protests and civil unrest. this is president ortega, speaking on fox news monday. >> we were elected by the voters. limits and our electoral time ends in 2021. we will have our next elections. then, we will have to see who will be voted in for the new administration. amy nicaragua's main business : association has been demanding ortega to hold early elections, to which ortega has responded that nicaragua "is not private property." international human rights groups say over 300 people have died since the protests erupted in april and that the vast majority have been killed by pro-government forces. over the weekend, thousands of

ortega supporters and opposition activists rallied for rival protests in the streets of the capital managua. germany's star soccer player, me-suit oo-zeal, has quit in protest of the racism he's faced for his turkish roots. in a four-page letter, the star midfielder wrote "i am german , when we win, but i am an immigrant when we lose." he said he was scapegoated and blamed for germany's disappointing world cup performance, and that he received a flood of hate mail after a photo surfaced of him posing with turkish president reccep tayyip erdogan. a republican state representative from georgia, jason spencer, has been caught on tape shouting the n-word, in the last episo o of codianan cha baron cohen's show "who is america?" inhihich cen impeononateshararacts in o oer to spoof famous people fro

bernieanders tdidick cney. for reblican jon spenc, cohen impersonated an israeli terrrrorism expert training him how to out with militants. in america,here is e e for bebeenord. it is the n-word. i'going to be the terrorist, u u havehreeee sonds to attract attention. are you crazy? th word is disgusting. show me your weapon. go. that was republican georgia state representative jason spencer, believing that militants are so afraid of gay people, that he could escape a kidnapping attack by dropping his pantanand "aackingngthe man wi his barbottom. in pinellas coty, flflida, policeay they ll not crge man capted in sueillance otage fally shoong anoth maduring aispute or a

parking spot. the footage shows michael drejka confronting the family of markeis mcglockton over his decision to park in a handicapped spot while the father of three ran into a convenient sort. when he returned from the store, mcglockton shoved drejka, who in turn fired a fatal shot to mcglockton's chest, killing him. the sheriff says the shooter will not be charged because of florida's stand your ground laws, which sparked national outrage in 2012, when white vigilante george zimmerman successfully used it as his defense after he shot and killed unarmed african-american teenager trayvon martin. the stand your ground law was strengthened in a controversial change which shifts the burden of proof to the prosecutors you have to prove they are not entitled to stand your ground in unity. in new york city, the new owner of the new new york daily news staff

will be cut in among those who half. were fired: editor in chief jim rich, who tweeted "if you hate , democracy and think local governments should operate unchecked and in the dark, then today is a good day for you." at its peak, the new york daily news employed 400 journalists after the latest cuts, the . newspaper will have only 45 people on staff. the poster of the chicago tribune and the baltimore sun. and human rights activist, educator, and founding member of the black panther party, elbert "big man" howard, has died. born in tennessee in 1938, howard was also the first editor of the black panther party's newspaper. this is elbert "big man" howard, speaking about visiting with prisoners duringng the 1971 atta rebellion. there,panthers were several other panthers, we went

and listened to the grievances of the inmates. little that we can do on the spot other than get party authorization to offer if theytes assistance wanted to leave the country. at that time, we had some friends, revolutionary friends if would give them sanctuary we could encourage them to come out. that was about all we cacan off. there, hehe issued the order to take the prison back at all costs. amy: elbert "big man" howard died on monday at the age of 80. those are some of the headlines this is democracy now, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy

goodman. before move on with our first story, this is your alma mater. this is where you worked almost 30 years. the latest round of cuts, half the staff is been fired by the new owner. one: i expected this would happen once donald trump took over. that was the company that when i , itt got to the daily news was running the daily news and provoked a strike of the 2500 employees of the n newspaper bak then. late 80's, in the there were 450 people in the newsroom. there were more in the 50's. by the 90's, we had about 450.

staff, new% of the york city had 7.5 million people. you are talking about a much bigger city, many fewer reporters, it's a tragedy what is happening to the newspaper business. not the fact that the papers are not publishing as many papers, that the stats continue to shrink and people who are producing original news. it's ludicrous to think you can put out a m major news site in w york city with just 45 people. amy: the now fired editor-in-chief, if you hate democracy and think local democracy should work in the dark, today is a good day for you. townsoes this mean for losing their newspapers? juan: that's a good question.

how do you provide local news. there will always be national outlets that produce national news. who is going to cover your local school board and your city council and the decisions that townt your city or your with fewer reporters doing it? amy: we will continue to cover these issues all over the country. juan: the national rifle association is facing pressure to reveal more details about its role helping president trump win the 2016 election. last week a russian gun rights , activist named maria butina - who had direct ties with the nra - was charged by the justice department with acting as an unregistered agent of the russian government. she was arrested in washington d.c. as she was preparing to go back to russia. she is accused of trying to infiltrate the nra and other right-wing groups. she worked for the russian banker alexander torshin, a longtime friend of the nra who now serves as the deputy head of

the russian central bank. in january, mcclatchy reported the fbi was investigating whether torshin illegally funneled money to the nra to help trump. the nra spent more than $30 million to help elect trump - more than twice what it spent on mitt romney's run in 2012. amy: she and alexander torshin attended a number of nra events and other right-wing gatherings in recent years. in 2015, she attended the freedomfest conference in las vegas where she had a chance to question then candidate e donald trump. >> my question involves foreign politics, , what would be your and yourpolicy relationship with my country? do you want to continue sanctions? do you have otother ideas?

get along i would very nicely with vladimir putin. i i do think you would need toto sanctions. i think we would get along very well. juan: less than a year later, in march 2016 bootina and torshin briefly met with donald trump jr. at a fundraising dinner in louisville. two months later an nra member named paul erickson who at the time was in a relationship with her wrote an email titled "kremlin connection" to a trump advisor. in the email erickson wrote russia was "quietly but actively seeking a dialogue with the u.s." he is a longtime republican operative who advised that you can and mitt romney. he served on the board of the american conservative union. she was photographed with many top republican officials including wisconsin governor , scott walker, former presidential candidate rick santorum and nra president wayne lapierre.

amy: to talk more about the arrest of mamaria bootina we are joined by greg gordon, washington correspondent for mcclatchy he has written a . number of exposes about the nra's ties to rus his report in january with peter stone was headlined "fbi investigating whether russian money went to nra to help trump." they how does she fit into this story? >> good morning. i share your sadness about the daily news. is one fascinating and concerning part of the investigation underway into russia's influence in the 2016 election. that is unanswered still is whether russia somehow funneled money to the nra to beef up its support for donald trump. the nra spent $10 million on mitt romney in 2012.

they spent more than $30 million because they don't have to probably report the money they spend on getting out the vote. butina came to the united states 2016 to become a graduate student at american university. she has forced all of these added aships and she russian gun rights group called the right to bear arms. disconnectere is a with regard to this group. vladimir putin doesn't want his citizenry to be owning guns, except maybe a hunting rifle. this led to the formation of with anup and they met

array officials. there was a bomb between these two groups. nra board members went over to and the nra president went and were hosted and treated to lavish meals by this group of russian officials. high-ranking with russian officials during their visits. a lot of things are going on here because a lot of the russian gun companies are trying to get into the u.s. market. they were under u.s. sanctions. continued intoip the campaign. fbi016, according to the which was tracking her very

closely, she was very active in trying to set up meetings and back channel communications through the nra between u.s. officials and russian officials. be theictment appears to first right by the fbi, given the charging documents state torshen is a co-conspirator. he is a close ally of vladimir putin as so many of these inures and russian officials the upper echelons of their government are. they have popped up in different places in this massive investigation of russian influence, every time a new piece comes out, you have to

take a step back and say they are doing this as w well? they were hacking democratic officials, they were blitzing messages thatith were either pro-trump or harshly critical of hillary clinton or aboutrying to sow discord immigration. there were a lot of messages about gun rights. the nra and the gun rights movement which backed trump so strongly as important fbi to according to the make a connection. there were forays i alexander torsion to set up a meeting between donald trump and

vladimir putin. he thought he was going to have a meeting with trump. he was blocked at the last minute. there was a blend with religious groups, religious right in they arrangede for a delegation of russians to attend the national prayer breakfast. is thing that is interesting this carried well into 2017 and even into 2018. butinast arrested maria last week. juan: you mentioned the $30 million the nra spent in support of donald trump, a lot of that .as by the lobbying arm

they do not t have to disclose donors publicly. what do you think are the chances now that robert mueller has begun to or have already subpoenaed the information on who were the donors to the nra? >> my partner and i reported last month that legal experts say it's highly likely that the fbi, the irs, prosecutors have that up secret reports until about a week ago they were required to disclose, these dark money donors. about $23 million of the $30 million that was spent by the lobbying arm. .et's be clear the russians are not stupid enough to put money directly into the name of the russian government or an oligarch or so

forth to pump money into the nra. that just would not happen. seen, they aree always seeking plausible deniability for everything. one of the key questions here is if money from the russians went into the nra's coffers, did they know about it? it could have come in through a limited liability corporation and these do not have to expose their beneficial owners behind them. one of the questions senator ron of oregon had a direct exchange with the nra general counsel this winter, he was pressing to find out about this. could the nra have gotten money from the russians for another

purpose and then use that money that was the money already devoted to those purposes and channel that into the election. gotnra said in 2016 that it .2500 from russian donors at of these were membership dues from others. weren't used in the election they said. but you also wrote a piece, a lawyer said to have concerns about groups with russian ties. attorney wasra described by sources as expressing concerns about how the nra was handling its money in 2016. we contacted her. she was very upset. she denied it adamantly.

we went back to our sources again and again and they stuck to that account. we will have to see how that piece plays out. asking mind, we were someone to talk about a former client. that could compromise the attorney-client privilege. -- she was in a bad spot. it's interesting that this could have happened. since our original story in january, we know more about the original allegations. this goes with the release of this indictment. it tends to confirm what we recorded. we will have to see if any money was exchanged. oligarch linked

to her? >> thank you for axing. -- asking. the washington post reports that oligarch.russian he was not named in the government documents they filed last week. i want to mention before we finish about sex. according to the washington post, he was identified when she was taken by the senate intelligence committee as a funder of some of her activities. the charging documents point out that she needed a $125,000 budget to proceed with her contacts with u.s. political officials and intelligence officials.

that's a big budget for a graduate student. meantime, she formed a nrationship with fundraisers and a republican operative named erickson. she had a romantic relationship with mr. erickson, a person identified we believe in the documents as person number one. according to the prosecutors, she was having this romantic but disdained having to do this. she offered sex in return for influence with another person during her time that the fbi was able to track. in emails, she talked about it

and offer to work for russian intelligence. we are going to be fascinated to see where this case goes. will she actually go to trial? is it possible now that she is the only russian so far to be in u.s. custody as part of this investigation. i'm going to be careful about that. the nra has repeatedly said it has not been contacted by the fbi. that is fascinating, but it doesn't mean they haven't combed through possible dollars. we will have to see where this goes. let's just say if they find that

money went to the nra, that will open up a whole new avenue of questions about whether there was any coordination between the nra pro-trump spending during the campaign and the campaign, which would not be permissible under federal election law. amy: she spoke a at the freedom fest convention. member ofw a board the right to bear arms. rights.te gun it's very important. we bring this -- it -- rollins -- knowledge to russia. if you can comment on what

she is saying anand how she waws taken, how she was arrested and denied bail, was she leaving the country? >> that's what the fbi says. maria appears to have been everywhere. gunwas sending tweets about rights. i read one yesterday where she hooked up with an 87-7-year-old carry or was concealed was operating a powerful gun at a range. she went out to the range of around the washington area and scouted them out. butinare photos of maria wearing racy outfits and pointing weapons.

bolton, ash john many nra events, she was at as many as she could make. is, what was the plan here? did she know about the money? if there was money moving in illicit through an oligarch or another channel, the russians are very good at hiding money through a chain of offshore accounts. that's the question the fbi is trying to get to the bottom of. time, there is a separate issue of what influence they were seeking, trying to broaden the russian sphere of influence in the western world. is that what this was about? is there more? juan: how could the legal

cohen a affectael this case or tie into it? michael:t sure whether ties in. i would say what investigators are looking for with respect to michael cohen ties back into the.ca but together by the x british spy. folder but together by the british spy. russianith a member of

parliament. correct, that would be what some call the holy grail. it would carry strong suggestions that collusion between the russians and the trump campaign. say, robert mueller , you have to find a way because many of the people you are looking at are not cooperating. hashis case, robert mueller indicted 25 rushes -- russians. how is he going to build this case other than through former trump campaign days? that's of these trying to do. he brought enormous pressure on paul manafort. now he is bringing it on michael

cohen. he is comparing himself to john dean. he was counsel to president nixon. that he another lawyer was taping calls with the resident. what does he have? will he cooperate? to what extent will he cooperate in order to avoid prosecution? the whole game here from where i sit is for robert mueller to get these guys to help them and save their own skins, turn them on each other. flynn't know what michael told robert mueller yet. ,e don't know what rick gates they both pleaded. they had to give something up for those of the agreements. no prosecutor will let people off the way they were let off given the charges against them.

there had to be a big piece of evidence to assist in the investigation. now, the question is is that going to occur with michael? amy: a lot of what you have said is speculation. we want to thank you for being with us. he is the washington correspondent for mcclatchy. his report in january with peter stone was headlined "fbi investigating whether russian money went to nra to help trump." back, the homeland security secretary has just stirred up some controversy once again, commenting on the charlottesville attack last year. stay with us.

♪ ♪ amy: that was america the beautiful from the tv series the americans. juan: it's been almost a year since hundreds of torture during white supremacist l the campus

of the university of virginia. the next day, members of the group attacked counterprotesters, firing at least one shot from a pistol and , brutally beating 20-year-old deandre harris in a parking garage, before a neo-nazi named james alex fields drove his car into a crowd of demonstrators, murdering a local paralegal named heather heyer and injuring at least 19 others. in the aftermath of the tragedy, donald trump spoke at a bellicose, angry news conference he held in the lobby of his residence at trump tower, defending his decision to wait two full days before placing blame on white supremacists for the deadly violence in show so, virginia. during the news conference, the president attacked the anti-racist counterprotesters, repeatating his earlier claim tt there was violence on both sides.

both sides did you look at both sides, there is blame on both sides and i haveve no doubt abot it and you don't have any douout about it either. if you reported as accurately, you would do that. you had some very bad people in that group. you also had people who were very fine people on both sides. amy: just last week, homeland security secretary kirstjen nielsen backed trump's defense of violent white supremacists who attacked counter-protesters in charlottesville, virginia last nielsen made the remark at august. a forum organized by the aspen institute. >> it's not that one side is right and the other is wrong, anyone advocating violence, we need to mitigate it amy: in a

few short weeks, organizers from unite the right, the group that held the rally in charlottesville, plan to descend on washington dc for the anniversary of last year's event. organizer jason kessler listed the event's purpose as "protesting civil rights abuse in charlottesville, va / white civil rights rally." in a new book, our next guest traces the history of the white power movement, which she says organized around a worldview of white supremacy, anticommunism and apocalypse in the aftermath , of the vietnam war, and culminated in the 1995 bombing by timothy mcveigh of the alfred p. murrah federal building in oklahoma city. kathleen belew is an assistant professor of history at the university of chicago and her new book is titled "bring the war home: the white power movement and paramilitary america." welcome to democracy now! it's great to have you with us. congratulations on your book. can you comment on your thoughts , reinforcingshee said

what trump said a year ago, trying to take blame off the white supremacists. put it into a broader historical context. >> i should mention that my 1995rch goes only up to and the oklahoma city bombing. i don't have the archives to fully explicate was going on in the present moment. i can say this, there are two important things about understanding the political context of charlottesville. the first is there are a lot of misconceptions about the white power movement. we should understand it as a violent movement that is always matched public activism with violent underground activity. the second thing is although it seems new to us to have a moment

of a wink and a nod to allowing this kind of activism, it's not new. this is a movement that radicalized under the reagan administration and turned violent in 1983 in a moment of executive acceptance. shouldn't that, we think the wake and the not coming from t the administration contenttivists will be with demonstrating in the public square. you talk about this forment as beginning to and organize itself post the at vietnam.

what about all the bombings that inurred durining the south 1962. there were gunbattles between federal marshals and white supremacists try to prevent james mereredith from entering e miss. you talk about what happened during the war era. >> is the third era of the ku klux klan. people think about the post-civil war clan. organized inally the way that many people understand ku klux klan violent. it's mostly in the south, it's mostly anti-black and oriented against the intrusion of the federal government into the battles against integration in the south. what i'm looking at is a more ideologically diverse movement

in the 80's that brought together people who had been in n.e third kla i'm lolooking at the unification protesters, people who follow white supremacists ideologies, and skinheads organized around the story of the vietnam war. character from the third klan. it was organized during leaderless resistance. what we now think of as self silent terrorism, you can organize a smaller number of activists so that they can be infiltrated or prosecuted. the bible that be the turner diaries? >> absolutely. it's a utopian novel. it lays out how a strategy like

this could work to take on the highly militarized superstate. amy: professor, you write about 1979, the shooting of communist protesters in north carolina. the unified paramilitary and white power movement activist, can you explain what happened? >> this is an event that happened in greensboro in which neo-nazis and klansmen came together under the name united resistance front and drove through an anti-ku klux klan demonstration. they opened fire on protesters. people, forfive white men and one african-american woman. eveven though the event was caut scenene, all ofs on

them were e acquitted in state d federal trials. a cicivil trial r returned a decision that only one of the deaths had been wrongful. this gives u us a hisistorical cocontext for charlottesville, e unified group of neo-nazis and klansmen naming themselves as a unified movement. they are coming to a public altercation and violence ensues. in the case of greensboro, it shows how the american legal system was unprepared to reckon with this kind of violence. the gunmen were able to say what they were doing was not racist, it was anti-communist. because juryled instructions said to make for reasonsharges

of race, it didn't work out because they were able to say it wasn't about racism. defendants posed in front of the local vietnam war memorial. the acquittal was the green light for further violence. book, whyitle of your did you choose it? >> that comes from a collection -- a vietnamvet veteran who served two tours. he became a leader in the movement. that essay is from a collection. at the areaed nations compound and reissued in 1989. what he is talking about is the disconnect between the violence whenrfare and the violence veterans come home. his solution is to bring the violence of warfare into the domestic space.

he wants this violence directed against the people he thinks betrayed him in that the economic war. -- vietnam war. and includes the government media and others who seem unaware of what has happened. he went on to organize paramilitary training camps for klansmen and the strategy of leaderless resistance and brought the movement online in early commuter -- computer message boards. we are going to break and come back to this discussion. professoraking with a from the university of chicago. her new book is titled "bring the war home: the white power movement and paramilitary america." stay with us. ♪ ♪

amy: i am amy goodman with juan gonzalez. professor ofa history at the university of chicago.

i would like to ask you bombing, the bombing of the oklahoma city federal building. also about the branch davidian complex, the massacre and the standoff that occurred there. to what degree are those incidents galvanized or creating problems for the formation of the right-wing supremacist groups? complexranch davidian was a multi racial religious community. it shared a lot in common with the white power movement and that both formations focused on the apocalyptic and the end of the world and believed their members would have to be, foot soldiers in an end of days that or a war ofacece war

concern on the outside. because it isant such a v visible example of the overexertionon of the s state ad ththe overuse of power. what we arare talking about is e season of aa compound that included menen, women, and children and ended in an enormous fire after several days of standndoff in tanks rolling . all of that was on video. the statate had use these methos of p paramilitary policing at ry ridge earlier. that was widely reported, but not televised because it was so remote. waco is important because it gives evidence to the ideology that the state is bent on their destruction. waco tomcveigh came to

witness s the siege and watched the end of it with tears running down his face. when he carried out the bombing, he chose the anniversary of the waco siege for his action. the date was important for a lot of other reasons. it's one of the ways we can see why the bombing was the work of a movement and not just a lone wolf activist. it was scheduled for the anniversary of the raid of a white separatist compound. it was also an execution date of one of its key activists who had aso targeted that building in plot that never came to fruition. the white power movement had that building in its sights for decades. could draw the building from memory. mcveveigh read the turner diaris

and distribute that novel as part of his work on the gun show circuit. what we see after the oklahoma city bombing is a quick surgrgen copypycats. amy: timothy mcveigh served in the gulf war. >> yes. before you move on, i wanted to ask you about an interesting chapter, mercenaries. that's about white supremacy and u.s. invnvolvement in latin america, particularly central america in places like nicaragua. >> one of the things that happened as people returned from the war, some people choose to continue to use the skills they learned for combat in other areas. there is a movement of mercenary soldiers to southern africa, to nicaragua and el salvador, occasionally honduras to serve

to undergird u.s. foreign policy. for the white power movement, they helped people try out anti-democratic warfare before they brought it home to the united states. it's corrupted to the historical record. they are thought about is usually armchair warriors going off to do cultural battle. we see a lot of people think --ut social of fortune soldier of fortune magazine as harmless. for a lot of people, this was a real thing, real combat and it should be treated with a real body cam. amy: oliver north is now president of the nra, responsible for getting weapons and using the money illegally to fund the contras in nicaragua.

>> yes. many white-collar activists spent time in central america before coming back to carry out white power activism in the united states. there is one case of an attempt to invade the island of dominica and set up a private government. the people involved got caught early. others did go to countries in central america and southern africa to sort of practice guerrilla warfare methods before coming home. we see this in the turner diaries. they really were overlapping areas of engngagement. juan: we only have about a minute left, what the economic program of this movement? >> it's interesting, it's thought of as a lower-class movement or a southern movement

or having something to do with backwardness. it's in every region of the country, it includes men, women, children, people with advanced degrees and high school dropouts. movement,t's a frfringe it explains where over racism went when people are thought of colorblind. over racism was part of our politics the entire time. amy: what surprised you most? >> i was surprised by the role of women in this movement. it beinghese ideas of masculine. women were doing an incredibly important job in interconnecting groups, and marriages that maintained alliances, in .ecruitment, and activism women were disguising their own actions.

they may have been involved in writing some text. amy: we want to thank you so much for being here. professor atistant the university of chicagxwxwqoç? a

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