released just recently are actually sort of the culmination of a multiyear tracking process. over the last three years, ice has perfected this scheme where they have ratcheted up the funding that they use for detention and deportation twice per year. they get an increase from congress. congress is in on this, too. they over spend their money and make up the difference by grabbing money from other parts of the agency. and they get a bump in the overspend, grab or money. by repeating this three times, they have moved one billion additional dollars into the account they use. the documents that were released recently show the most recent from grabbing the mouse. the 10 main dollars they took from fema is one part of this bigger story, financial minute to expand theis

deportation machine that is reflected in what laura is talking about on the ground in north carolina. isn: i -- our understanding ice alone is spending about $3.6 billion on detention and transportation of the undocumented? could you talk about this explosion of the amount of money spent on detaining and goodporting, which awesome in deporting, the undocumented immigrants? >> i think the outrage is well-placed. this massive sum of money is going to open up new detention facilities, including really big facilities that are operated by private prison companies. as you say, transporting people for deportation. so really putting into practice some of the worst and most harmful policies for communities. i think, while i am really glad the fact that money was taken

from fema to be moved into the account of detention and deportation, it is really coming to light in a major way, i think we have to zoom out even further to understand it is not just fema money is coming from. these precious taxpayer dollars could be going to housing or health care or any number of other things that help communities thrive together rather than so violently and aggressively separating them. amy: fema agency spokesperson tyler holton said -- "under no circumstances was any disaster relief funding transferred from @fema to immigration enforcement efforts. this is a sorry attempt to push a false agenda at a time when the administration is focused on assisting millions on the east coast facing a catastrophic disaster." mary, your response to this? >> i think that is just parsing words. the request that we were able to get a hold of and sure with congressional offices shows are cicely that, that money can be moved around between accounts. so to say the money that was

taken was baby slated for something other than emergency response isn't responsive to the fact it could have been used for that and at a time where puerto rico is so desperately and so need of assistance, fema talking about stuffing shortages, the money could of been shifted. juan: what about the rebuilding of the rebuilding process after the storm? what is the legal situation for those who may be undocumented in terms of being able to get any kind of disaster assistance? not the best person to speak of that. go ahead, laura. access -- juan: i'm sorry? amy: laura, go ahead. >> we know individuals who are undocumented are not able to access the support or resources from fema.

we are talking about hundreds of thousands of people in the past who have been left out by the federal agency. and we expect that will happen again in the state of north carolina, which is why we call to action by making donations to grassroots organizations who understand that not only immigrant communities have been left behind, but historically, black c community's have been lt in the darark after hurricanes n the past like we saw in katrina. for months, if not years at a time. soso grassrootots organizationse mobilizing right now. and individuals who are able to should be looking at making donations directly to these grassroots organizations at tiny.ccflorencs. amy: thank you for being with us laura garduño garcia and mary small. tora, what is your message

immigrants, especially undocumented p people in the mit of this storm, even as the floodwaters rise? message to the people in my community here in the state where i call home is you should find support in local organizations who will look to you, who will look to to find what they're able to provide to you. and are willing to go forward their best effort to fill the gaps that the federal agency will leave behind, no question. but we must come forward with our requests, with our needs, and we should try local groups or create our own to support one another in these times. because not only are we facing the devastation of hurricane florence, but we know we will continue facing attacks on our immigrant community.

together we are stronger. amy: thank you so much. this is democracy now! the we come back, it is 10th anniversary of the economic collapse of lehman brothers collapsing, the seventh anniversary of occupy wall street. we will speak with occupy activist nathan schneider. his new book, "everything for everyone." stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. juan: t this week m marks the seventh anniversary of the occupy wall street movement, and 10 years since the collapse of u.s. investment bank lehman brothers that triggered the onset of the global financial crisis. millions of people in the united states and around the world lost their jobs, homes, and life savings, even as the u.s. government bailed out some of wall street's biggest failing banks. over the weekend, activists in europe protested outside banks in france and germany to mark the 10th anniversary. amy: the financial crisis also sparked massive global anti-capitalist movements, including the occupy movement, the m-15 movement in spain, and the anti-austerity movements in greece. talk more about the impacts of two the crisis 10 years later, we're joined now by nathan schneider, whose new book outlines an alternative economic model based on cooperative ownership. he argues that the cooperative

movement has witnessed a resurgence since the 2008 financial crisis. schneider's book is just out called "everything for everyone: the radical tradition that is shaping the next economy." his recent piece for vice is headlined, "rich people broke america and never paid the price." he is also the author of "thank you, anarchy: notes from the occupy apocalypse." nathan schneider is a journalist and author, and media studies professor at the university of colorado boulder. image i just came from boulder. talk about this 10th anniversary of what is called economic collapsese, but also the seventh anniversary of occupy, which you are very much a part o of. looks it is striking how little we are marking these anniversaries. especially the anniversary of the crash, which is so defined the last 10 years and has defined my generation, has defined so many of our lives. i think a reason that we haven't

been celebrating it is we recognize we really haven't done anything serious to deal with the causes of this crash and to deal with horrific response to it, in which millions of people were allowed to lose their homes and their jobs. thisly in the midst of lack of imagination, there has been a growing movement on a grassroots level, increasingly at a policy level, to recognize there is an opportunity to make a difference through this tradition of cooperative enterprise. juan: can you give some examples of that? as you note, there has been a cooperative movement in america in the past decade, even before the crash, but can you give some examples of the changes that have occurred since crash? >> absolutely there has been a long tradition and -- this is a tradition that has b been empowering farmers, enabling

small businesses to survive, but it is often not visible. actually, in the course of working on this book a mother and my own grandfather helped build a national purchasing cooperative for hardware stores, enabling small hardware stores to survive and thrive. i did not even know it was a cooperative. that was never something i learned. in the years since the crash, for instance, there was in 2011 during occupy, there was a large move your money day where hundreds of thousands of accounts moved from big banks to credit unions, which are banks that are owned by the people they serve. there is been a rise in interest across the country, especially in cities in worker ownership, allowing workers to become owners of the businesses where they are employed. this is increasingly moving into federal strategy. it is a surprisingly bipartisan

opportunity. there is a quiet opportunity here to really make good on the failure of our economic system 10 years ago. juan: some might argue even some predatory capitalists are developing the idea of businesson among people. i'm thinking of airbnb ,uber, this sharing economy. taking a cooperative idea and standing at on its head in terms of making money. >> cooperation is the original crowdfunding, the o original sharing economy. thing most of us have was of to the fact this is not a real sharing economy, this economy of , but in airbnb extraction economy. a lot of what i've been following for the last two years is a group of people around the world who are trying to build real sharing economies using digital tools to share ownership and governance e all the way don economies were

front-line workers are deciding their own standards of work -- house cleaners and drivers and others. amy: this is you speaking that occupy wall street, the anniversary, seventh anniversary was monday, yesterday, september 17. at this is you speaking down at the park. >> what they're doing is the assembly. the court demand, i think, right now, seems to be the right to organize, to have a political conversation in a public space to show wall street, so to speak, what democracy looks like. amy: that is you, nathan schneider, seven years ago. and now you have written this book. this radical tradition you're talking about, the cooperatives that are on the upswing around the world? talk more about them specifically and what you hold out most hope for. >> it is striking how that idea of praracticing democracy in everyday life that was happening

in that square is something that is a kind of hope we have lost. inwas something that even the 1930's and 1940's, the u.s. government was promoting. it was something, possibility that was forgotten. in terms of these particular projects, we have these gig economies in which people are figuring out how to own and govern their own platforms. we are seeing an opportunity unlike any we have ever seen, where a whole generation of business owners in what is known as the silver tsunami, are looking to retire. these small and medium-sized businesses, employers around the country, are being gobbled up by private equity. this is an opportunity for conversions to employ ownership if we have the right policy tools and financing tools available. so the opportunities that we have before us right now are tremendous.

and these are e also connected o our r social movements.. the platform for the black lives matter movement mentioned in its policy proposal, cognates of cooperation more than 40 times. this is just another example of our socialess of movement" of enterprise, going back to the civil rights movement and long before. juan: what do you say to those who would argue absent any kind of change in the pololitical por structure, that the lawmakers will always come up with ways to keep these cooperative movements down and to maintain monopoly capital l or big capital in favored status in society? >> the weird thing, this is something that is happening across the p political spectrum, but quietly. both the democratic and republicanan platforms in 2016 advocate increasing worker owownership. yeaears,e last couple of

democrats have been recognizing that this might be an issue that they want to take leadership on. just a couple of weeks ago, the main street employee ownership facilitateswhich worker ownership and convergence of businesses. so i think we have an interesting opportunity in this moment of incredible polarizazation. and there is a political base already starting to form. we just need to strengthen that. and make the demand even louder, make the demand heard that that system that created the crash 10 years ago is not acceptable anymore. amy: what is the difference between the gig economy and a rigged economy? >> i think a rigged economy is one in which the accountability goes upward. in which you have businesses that are ultimately accountable just to a small segment of their shareholders, of big investors.

when they have to make hard decisions, their accountability goes upward. and the people who are on the line for their mortgages are the ones who get let off. the gig economy is, and a sense, an opportunity and a danger. it is a danger in the sense that often reallyt has pushing things workers half offered for decades, for centuries. but it also invites these opportunities of our flexible work. we have an opportunity to creree a future of work that in which workers are really in control. amy: finally, the fact that who was held accountable for what happened and how much summit of peoplele lost 10 years ago?? >> i think we haven't really held anyone accountable nearly enough. there's a lot of talk about war there is some -- or there's some talk for some of the time about who was not put in jail, things

like that. i think we need to talk about the system. we need to transform the system. we are but tools that. with the tradition that is proven, that is actually bipartisan that we can turn to to make a difference. amy: nathan schneider is media studies professor at the university of colorado in boulder. his new book "everything for , everyone: the radical tradition that is shaping the next economy." that does it for our show. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people