10/23/18 10/23/18 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from pacifica, this is democracy now! >> the information and the evidence that we have so far that jamaln the case khashoggi was slain in a vicious violent murder, white watching -- whitewashing such brutality will of course injnjure the conscience of all community.

amy: turkish president recep tayyip erdogan has directly accused saudi arabia of orchestrating the murder of saudi journalist jamal khashoggi, saying his killing in gush killing was planned in the days before khashoggi into the n istanbul. he was never seen again. wewe will speaeak with journalit rula jebrealal who cononducted one of the last interviews khashoggi ever gave. then president trump continues to lash out at the central american caravan making its way toward the u.s. border. pres. trump: take your cameras and search him ok? you're going to find them as 13, you're going to find middle eastern, you're going to find everything. guess what? we are not allowing them in our country. we want safety. amy: as president trump threatens to cut off aid to central america, we will look at how u.s. foreign policy in el salvador, honduras, and

guatemala has helped create the crisis. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. turkish president recep tayyip erdogan has directly accused saudi arabia of the premeditated murder of saudi journalist jamal khashoggi. he called it a political killing orchestrated by saudi officials. khashoggi was last seen alive entering the saudi consulate in istanbul, turkey october 2. , erdogan said a team of saudi officials had planned khashoggi's murder days in advance. during a speech in the turkish parliament today, erdogan called for the saudi suspects to be tried in turkey. >> and now there is official acknowledgment there was a murder. where is the body? why to we still not have the body? if the information that the body was given to a local

co-conspirator, and this is information by an authority, by the way, now my question is, who is this local co-conspirator?r? amy: president erdogan's remarks directly contradict saudi arabia's claim that khashoggi died during a fistfight in the consulate. turkish officials have claimed audio and video recordings show saudi officials used a bone saw to dismember khashoggi's body, but erdogan made no mention of any recordings of the killing. in the wake of khashoggi's murder, agence france presse is reporting that exiled critics of saudi arabia have shared stories of apparent saudi attempts to lure them to their local embassies, where they feared they might be kidnapped or killed. meanwhile in riyadh, treasury secretary steven mnuchin met with saudi arabia's crown prince mohammed bin salman monday despite international outcry over khashoggi's murder.

mnuchin's trip came as the trump administration sent cia director gina haspel l to istanbul. in more news from riyadh, hackers briefly took over the official website for saudi arabia's future investment initiative, also known as davos in the desert, as organizers prepared to host the high profile event amid international outcry over jamal khashoggi's murder. the hackers posted a doctored image of khashoggi wearing an orange jumpsuit, with saudi crown prince mohammed bin salman standing behind him holding a bloody sword. bin salman has the letters isis written on his clothing. this month, the heads of the world bank and imf joined a boycott of the conference after top executives from jpmorgan chase, uber, ford, blackstone group, siemens, "the new york times," and every other major western news media organization pulled out.

the trump administration had said mnuchin, the treasury secretary, would also pull out of the conference, though he would end up shshing up inn riyadh. we'll have more on the death of jamal khashoggi afafter headlins with journalist rula jebreal, whose new cover story for newsweek is headlined "jamal khashoggi secret interview: the saudi journalist's views of islam, america and the 'reformist' prince implicated in his murder." we will speak with rula jebreal in rome, italy. in yemen, health officials are warning of possible new outbreaks of contagious illness like cholera and m maria due t o stagnant waters left behind after tropical storm luban tore through eastern yeyemen last we, killing 12 people. this month the u.n. warned about 10,000 new cases of cholera appear each week in yemen. the water-borne disease has been spreading rapidly since much of yemen's sanitation and medical infrastructure has been destroyed by a u.s.-backed,

saudi-led bombing campaign. national security adviser john bolton is meeting with russian president vladimir putin tuesday to discuss the u.s.'s decision to withdraw from the 1987 intermediate-range nuclear forces treaty, or the inf. on monday, president trump confirmed the plan to withdraw and said he would build up the u.s. nuclear arsenal. pres. trumpmp: russia has not adhered to the agreement. this should have been done years ago was t that it to peoplele ce to their senses, we have more money than anybody else by far, we will build it up. until they come to their senses. when they do, then we will all stop. by t the way, not only stop, wil reduce, which i would love to do. but right now, they have not adhered to the agreement. >> [indiscernible] pres. trump: it is a threat to

whoever you want, and it includes a china and russia and anybody else that wants to play that game. amy: many experts fearar a new arms race. other countries have spoken ouot against the move, including france, germany, and china. ahead of his meeting with putin, john bolton held talks with totp russian officials monday includg foreign minister sergey lavrov. bolton reportedly criticized russia for meddling g in the 206 u.s. elections, but said the actions did not have any real effect on the election's outcome. president trump continued to lash out at the central american caravan making its way toward the u.s. border, claiming without evidence, that terrorists and members of the ms-13 gang had infiltrated the group. trump tweeted -- "sadly, it looks like mexico's police and military are unable to stop the caravan heading to the southern border of the united states. criminals and unknown middle easterners are mixed in. i have alerted border patrol and military that this is a national

emergency. must change laws!" trump also doubled down on his threat to cut aid to honduras, el salvador, and guatemala and called out democrats for u.s. border policy in an ongoing attempt to turn the caravan into a main issue in upcoming midterm elections. meanwhile, locals who live on the caravan's route have been providing volunteer assistance and basic necessities to the migrants. this is mexican resident ana gamboa. >> the only thing i can say to people is that they should be more human, that we should look into our hearts and imagine ourselves in the migrants' shoes. it is not easy what they are doing. we, mexicans, like to criticize donald trump for the way he treats mexicans in the united states and now we are acting just like him. we don't have any walls on our border, but sometimes we ourselves are the wall. amy: we'll have more on the caravan later in the broadcast. in mexico, tropical storm

vicente killed at least 12 people in the southern state of oaxaca over the weekend as landslides and flooding in region forced many others to evacuate. meanwhile, hurricane willa is set to make e landfall as a category 4 storm when it hits mexico's pacific coast tuesday afternoon with sustained winds of 1 145 miles p per hour. the hurricane is expected to pass through the a archipela of islas mariasas, which houses a federal prison, before hitting the coastline. human rights watch is reporting the united arab emirateses has been detaining a british academic for months in terrible conditions and without charging him until last week. uae authorities charged matthew hedges of durham university with spying after holding him for over five months in prolonged periods of solitary confinement without access to sufficient legal assistance, medical attention and visits from his loved ones. human rights watch has raised concern over the uae's practice of detaining critics, academics

and activists, and calleled for transparenency andnd a fair trin hedges' casase. proteststs continued mononday against the trump administration's plans to narrow the legal definition of gender to an individual's biological sex at birth. in washington, d.c., demonstrators gathered outside the white house to denounce the proposed rollback of transgender rights, as the hashtag #wontbeerased trended on social media. this is activist ah-rye-ah lester of the national minority aids council. >> no words, no action can erase me. and those who stand here with me as well. ignorance inillful this country. we musust end the use of bigotry to frame the government policy. amy: the trump administration is planningng to expand exexemptios

that allow employers who cite moral or religious objections to deny birth control coverage to female employees. president trump already attempted to roll back the affordable care act mandate requiring employers to cover birth control last year, but several states sued in response, stopping the rules from going into effect. those cases are still pending. the newly proposed rules could be an attempt to circumvent the ongoing lawsuits from 2017. in nigeria, authorities have ordered a 24-hour curfew and deployed special forces after sectarian clashes killed 55 people last week. the violence took place in the central state of kaduna after fighting broke out between youths in a marketplace. kaduna is home to both muslim and christian communities, and has seen periods of intense sectarian violence in recent years. in environmental news, "the washington post" reports that a 14 year long oil spill off the gulf of mexico is set to become one of the worst offshore disasters u.s. history.

the leak is releasing between 300 and 700 0 barrels of oil per day off the coast of louisiana with no end in sight. the spill started after a mudslide caused by 2004 hurricane ivan sank an oil platform owned by taylor energy. taylor energy kept the spill a sicker for six years until environmental groups discovered it while monitoring the 2010 bp deepwater horizon oil spill just a few miles away. earlier this year, the trump administration proposed the largest expansion of leases for oil and gas exploration in history, which would open most of the outer continental shelf to offshorore drilliling. the supreme court decided monday to shield commerce secretary wilbur ross from being deposed over his role in adding a citizenship question to the 2020 census, reversing a federal judge's recent order. last month, mother jones reported wilbur ross lied under

oath to congress about the citizenship question by saying that justice department officials requested the addition of the question, rather than ross himself. immigrant rights advocates have condemned the citizenship question. they say it will deter immigrants from participating in the census and could help republicans win more congressional seats. authorities found an explosive device in the mailbox of billionaire philanthropist george soros at his upstate new york home. soros was not home at the time and the investigation has been handed over to the fbi. george soros has become conservative -- become a target for conservative attacks and is often used as a bogeyman figure fofor republican lawmakers and conservative media. president trump accused protesters at the kavanaugh confirmation hearings earlier this month of being paid by soros. in legal news, the guardian is reporting that recently confirmed supreme court justice brett kavanaugh once lobbied for the judge who is now charged

with reviewing over a dozen ethics complaints filed against him. earlier this month, supreme court chief justice john roberts referred misconduct complaints against kavanaugh to a circuit appeals court in colorado, alleging kavanaugh lied to congress while showing a lack of judicial temperament during his senate testimony. beginning in 2001, kavanaugh was heavily involved in campaigning for timothy tymkovich, a conservative judge nominated by george w. bush who faced resistance from lawmakers over his stance on lgbtq rights. legal experts have called out the conflict of interest in the selection of tymkovich to oversee the complaints against kavanaugh. and atat yale university, the words spoken by dr. christine blasey ford during her historic senate testimony last month were seen graffitied on buildings around campus monday. one quote from dr. blasey ford, who accused supreme court justice brett kavanaugh of attempted rape when she was 15

and he was 17, could be seen on the sterling law building where kavanaugh once studied. students tweeted photos of the quotes, "i have had to relive my trauma in front of the entire world" and "indelible in the hippocampus is the laughter." the full quote from dr. blasey ford's testimony is -- "indelible in the hippocampus is the laughter, the uproarious laughter between the two, and their having fun at my expense." during the contentious nomination battle for brett kavanaugh, yale law students held protests and a sit-in at the school, with many also going to d.c. to protest. brett kavanaugh went to yale university and yale law school. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. juan: and i'm juan gonzalez. welcome to all of our listeners

and viewers from around the country and around the world. turkish president recep tayyip erdogan has directly accused saudi arabia of the premeditated murder of saudi journalist jamal khashoggi. khashoggi was last seen alive entering the saudi consulate in istanbul in turkey on october 2. erdogan said a team of saudi officials had planned khashoggi's murder days in advance. during a speech before the turkish parliament erdogan , called for the saudi suspects to be tried in turkey. information and the evidence that we have so far jamalted in the case that khashoggi was slain in a vicious, violent murder, whitewashing such -- will of course injure the conscience of all humanity. and we are looking forward to

the same sensitivity being demonstrated by the administration of saudi arabia and all other parties. dear friends, the saudi arabian administration took an important step by acknowledging and , and now the murder our expectation from them going forward is that all those responsible from the highest level to the lowest level will be highlighted, will be brought to justice, and will get the punishment they deserve. and there are strong signs that the incident was not a momentary issue or result of something that erupted on side, but rather the result of a planned operation. juan: turkish president erdogan's remarks directly contntradict saudi's claim m tht khashoggi didied after a fhtht n the consulate.e. turkish officicials have claimid that audio a and video recordins

show saudi officials used a a be saw to dismember his body, but erdogan made no mention to the audio and video recordings of the killing. fallout from the murder of jamal khashoggi is still being felt across the globe. on sunday, germany announced it would halt arms deal to saudi arabia. britain, germany, and france have also joined together to demand saudi explain exactly what happened. amy: meanwhile, the trump administration is rejecting calls by human rights groups to cut off u.s. arms sales to saudi arabia. on monday, treasury secretary steven mnuchin met with saudi crown prince mohammed bin salman in riyadh. this comes as cia director gina haspel is now in turkey as part of the u.s. government's investigation into khashoggi's dedeh. wewe turn now to the jouournalit and author rula jejebreal in ro. she conducted one of the last known interviews with jamal khashoggi.

her new cover story for newsweek is headlined "jamal khashoggi secret interview: the saudi journalist's views of islam, america and the 'reformist' prince implicated in his murder." rula jebreal, welcome back to democracy now! why don't you begin by first describing your response to what is known at this point about what happened to "the washington post" columnist john walsh khashoggi -- jamal khashoggi, and in the circumstances under which you talk to him and what he said to you. happened to jamal is a barbaric coming evil act of this orchestrated by regime that wanted to silence him. they saw him as a traitor. they saw him as a slave as they see all of their citizens. owncrown p prince treats his citizens as if they are his

subjects that he can do whatever he wants. he can take their lives and around him, there is advisor who is been very vocal about reactivating the assassination jamal, go after not only but every critic of this crown prince. jamal baxley advised and worked for the royal family for many years. and then was banned from tweeting or writing last year. so jamaal decided to leave the countrtry because he really thought that they were going to go after him, as they did with many other intellectuals, critics, journalists, lawyers, human rights activists. so he left the country and came to america so his work and his writing can continue and he could continue to be the intellectual that he is. in america, he thought he was safe. however, he felt he was being

pressured between now and then, receiving in march last year a letter from a saudi prince who is telling him, come back, come back. actually, he published the letter. that saudi prince was arrested and probably beaten up and tortured. he was telling jamal to come back, build together with us this saudi state.. within 24 hours, the same man was arrested. "if atweeted saying, prince can pay $1 billion to be released from jail, how much money any prisoner of conscience, any credit needs to pay for this crown prince to be released from jail?" i think it was a moment where the crown prince came to america and wanted to appeal to the media,n elite and the especially in silicon valley and the hollywood come and wanted to dine and one with them. many fell for his charades.

criticismenen jamal's became even more important. i interviewed jamal because i did a cover story in september this year about mohammed bin salman. we were trying to expose the true face and show the american audience, especially lawmakers who were celebrating this man and "60 minutes" it is huge report about this crown prince. they even went as far as saying he is the new face and a reformer. callining him a reformer is like calling david duke a civil rights activist. it is preposterous. it is outrageous. so i did this cover story. i interviewed jamal for o one hour. we talked about everything. jamal, i remember we were both shaken by the fact is crown prince went as far as kidnapping a prime minister of lebanon, al-hariri. him,red him in, kidnapped and forced him to resign.

it was an attempt to trigger reaction by the lebanese so he can use the lebanese reaction, the has below reaction, to go to work in saran. jamal set in that interview that he gave me, he said our only hope is the international community. our only hope to save the saudis and people not only the saudis, the region, from this reckless prince, is the international cocommunity. my feeling that from his grave, now that they found the body, from his grave he is c calling n all ofof us to bring jusustice o jamal but also some kind of process where there is accountability for these barbaric acts. juan: rula jebreal, you have also said that in your interview he insisted he was not part of an opposition, but he was really -- he still could bethe saudis

reformed. could you talk about that further? think thee did not reform is connected to one man. he did n not belieieve mohammedn salman was really serious ababot reform. we discussed largely reforms were the byproduct of a pr campaign written for the saudi crown prince by cambridge analytica. he confirmed the limits of what bomb and bin salman was doing. -- mohammed bin salman was doing. against the lebanese, againstt the whole reregion. but jamal bubullied like the ret of the air world and many intellectuals, he believed in the promise of the arab spring. he believed we deserved democracy, we deserve s social democracy. he said in a tweet, we deserve better as saudis.

today we have germany leading the effort, macron and france leading the effort to hold the saudi regime to account. and we are relying on president erdogan so he could release the tape. the only way the spin from donald trump and his admonition and all of these guys, especially the one who leaked information to the saudi crown prince and gave him and tell from the cia, , and the saudi crown prince bragged abouout it and used it to arrest and purge all of his political opponents -- though they are complicit in the cover-up and emboldening and enabling this crown prince. the only hope the saudis and all of us as intellectuals and journalistsjournalists who camee middle east, who cover the middle east, next expose these tyrants, is that the international community somehow there is a mechanism of protection for journalists. i will be at the european parliament very soon for a hearing about the murder of

jamal khashoggi, but also about the saudis and their behavior in this reckless crown prince. and what the europeans are trying to do to bring the act from america and impose sanctions on the saudis come on all of the saudis who committed this crime, but above all, who ordered them to commit this crime. amy: i'm looking at various news reports. something you just reference, and also inhaaretz sky news, the remains of dissident saudi journalist jamal khashoggi have been found in the garden of the saudi consul general's home. this according to reports by sky news. according to the reports, sources suggest khashoggi had been cut up in his face disfigured. i want to go to a part of the interview you did with jamal khashoggi, talking about the saudi crown prince mohammed bin salman.

an old-fashioned leader. it will limit his authority. he did not want back. guess you did not want that. to enjoy the fruits of silicon valley, the cinema, but also rule how his grandfather ruled. that doesn't work. you can't have it both ways. >> he wants to have it both ways. >> can you h have it both ways? can you? >> no, i don't think he can. [indiscernible] that could pressure him, number

one. america isanybody in calling for pressure on mohammed bin salman? [indiscernible] i am sure the americans are not going to apply pressure to mohammed bin salman. amy: so that is jamal khashoggi talking to our guest rula jebreal, saying who is putting pressure on mohammed bin salman. do you see anybody in america, except for bernie sanders who was called for putting pressure on mbs? i'll the cell bernie sanders, but no one else, he said. was. say when this and your decision at the time not to release this interview, but why you have changed your mind.

>> exactly like i wrote in the cover for newsweek in september, it was only bernie sanders who really believed in humanity, legality, morality, and combining our policies with all of these values that america, you know, has been calling for around the world. it was clear while the crown prince of saudi arabia was decimating his neighboring country yemen, was bombing people to oblivion, was throwing bombs on school buses where children were being torn and killed, he was starving an entire nation to death -- nobody reacted because it was all about the dollars. it was all about selling weapons . and probably for trump,p, it is about selling apartments and

real estate to the saudis. let's remember there is a huge conflict of interest. this is the most nakedly corrupt administration. they really don't care about human rights. at least with other administrations, their hypocritical about it but there were moments when they would help selling the weapons to the saudis, specially when they committed atrocities in yemen and elsewhere. now we know the saudis s are partnering with al qaeda and the air force of al qaeda in yemen is american pilots. nobody is reacting to this. is -- isaw with jamal this crown level of prince. the zinke is using the house of a consul general of his own country to bury pieces of the body of a kind, gracious man who wantnted nothing except reform n his own country, he wanted his people to live as dignified

human beingsgs, not as slaves. he even wished mohammed bin salman to succeed. in my interview, i went as far and i told jamal, even privately and during the interview, i said, you would be a perfect adviser to this crown prince. and he said, and that t was his answer "he would do it." he wants his country to succeed. that is the only home he loved and cared about, and he felt deeply committed to the saudi people, specially poor and humble people, but also to his country. that is the only place where he was craving to go back and live under different circumstances. i did not publish the interview at the time because when we were talking off the record, i since t feared for his life. -- i since he feared for his life. this will stop the first attempt

to learn him in the embassy. he met with diplomats and the news came out recently in washington, d.c. they're all trying to be very kind to him and very gracious. they were all inviting him to go back. i don't think he fell in love and really wanted to get married. he never in his wildest dream thought he would go and that the crown prince would send 15 people very close to him and murder himim inside thee consule on foreign soil. i think this level of truly atrocity we have never seen anything like this before. the fact that that was a rogue operation, this is the worst spin i've ever heard in my life. you don't send somebody with a bone saw to cut people in pieces, and then pretend, o oh, then you come out t with his fabricated story that it was a fistfight. his 60's. man in

these were 15 men. there is no way he resisted them. jamal was the most kind, humble, the most nonviolent person i ever met in my life. breakula, we are going to and then come back to this discussion. among those 15 people it is believed was a body double who came out of the consulate wearing committee looks like at this point, jamal khashoggi's close. not clear why saudi arabia did not continue with that story, the idea he walked out of the embassy, which they did first float, but then quickly backed off on as is beyonce them as you are describing, , was outside or after our outside the consulate waiting for her partner to come out. rula jebreal is a journalist, author, foreign-policy analyst. her new cover storory for newswk is titled " jamal khashohoggi secret interview: the saudi journalist's views of islam, america and the 'reformist'

prince implicated in his murder." we will come back rula in rome, italy, in a minute. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. ,ur guest is rula jebrbreal journalist, author, foreign-policy analyst and has the cover of newsweek "jamal khashoggi secret interview: the saudi journalist's views of islam, america and the 'reformist' prince implicated in his murder." we have just learned, at least according to sky news, that jamal khashoggi's body parts haven't found buried in the 's long inereral istanbul, turkey. the residence right next to the consulate where jamal khashoggi walked in october 2 and never came out again. , i wanted askreal you in terms of -- you had mentioned earlier you are going to be speaking to the european

parliament. appeal toou hoping to the countries of europe to do in the situation, given the fact that the trump administration and the united states keeps equivocating and buying the stories of the saudi regime in one way or another? i will use jamaal's words. i was hoping against hope i would never have to publish this interview with jamal. i was hoping to go to his wedding. i was hoping to celebrate his life and the many writings. then when i saw the cover story and the lie after lie, as if they were putting a licensing of the public would react to it, then it would put another life and another deflection and another fabrication. when i saw the president trump, which i have no faith in a man who will always put his benefit,

his business and the cash flow coming from the saudis, that for him will trump any human rights, any morality or any legality. "ourl use jamal's words only hope that the interconnect for community more leaders like angela merkel and president macron and others will demand from the saudis process where the is accountability and there is justice for jamal. his life should not be in vain. and we should understand that if mohammed bin salman will get away with this murder, as he hoped for, this will be only the first of many murders because he will go after everybody. he is testing the water. he is trying to see -- he actually tested the water with yemen, then wtih qatar, and then prime minister al-hariri

when he kidnapped him, and now he is testing the water outside his country in the region. now he is sending a signal to every credit. they wanted this operation to come out. they w wanted people to talk abt this. they want everybody to be scared to speak up against the crown prince. our answer to this crown prince, that we demand justice for jamal , that we demand -- we deserve better than a leadership and america that will link which is moral authority and his leadership because of trump towers and trump apartments and weapons. we as americans deserve better. that is what the midterm elections are so important. i'm talking to the european parliament, and they're holding hearings after hearings, because i have no faith even in congress. i have no faith that congress will stand up for what is right. because what they did so far -- when they saw they have to choose, they will always back president trump, whatever he will do.

amy: i want to go to jared kushner. the president's son-in-law and senior advisor, very close to mohammed bin salman. he was speaking with van jones on cnn. >> this whole situation. to bet to be transparent, fully transparent. the woworld is w watching. ththis is a very, ve s serious accusation anniversary situation, and to make sure you are transparent and to take this very seriouslyly. amy: we have to be transparent, this must be taken very seriously he said. rula jebreal them of that relationship and what it means? fact that i don't think he wants transparency. first of all, that interview was a disappointment. van jones, a man that i admire and respect, cocould have pushed

harderer. people like jamal risked their lives on a daily basasis to expe these dictators and tyrants. van jones wanted access. that interview was about access. it was a lost opportunity. however, what our crown prince in america and a mecca's ruling family is saying is we want transparency, but then what they're doing is to cover-up for this crown prince. i believe there are financial ties to the crown prince that the kushners and the trump's have. this is why the next congress is crucial, is important to expose them for what they are, mercenaries. president trump himself, when he was running for president, talked about the money yet gotten, something like $40 million, $50 million from the saudis. rula jebrereal, thank you for being with us. we will link to your c cover sty for newsweek, b but we're goingo turn right now and end the segment with jamal khashoggi in

his own words. he was a keynote speaker at a conference organized by the center for middle east studies at the university of denver and the center for study of islam and democracy in washington. >> i am from saudi arabibia. the issue of democracy and islam are very much relevant. when a saudi official wants to brush away democracy in the past, he will always raise the debate whether democracy is compatible with islam. maybe he will call and have a discussion whether they are compatible. this topic is a topic ofof manyn this room have used to discuss, debate, write books about it.. untitil recently.

witht t totally w was put off the e coming of arab spring, wih the people, the outh, even the islamists, including the salafis that work critical does that work critical. there are many my country who also think democracy and islam don't go together. amy: jamal khashoggi, speaking and washington, d.c., "the washington post" columnist, "the new york times" just printed sort of a bridge transcript of that speech. jamal khashoggi, as far as we sky, the latest story from news, is that his body parts were found in the garden of the consul general's residence, the

turkish president erdogan has just made a speech in the turkish parliament the saudi regime has admitted that, yes, khashoggi died in the embassy will stop the consulate in istanbul, turkey. we will continueue to cover this issue and you can go to democracynow.org to get the latest news and all of our coverage over these few weeks. when we come back, the caravan heading north. we will talk about what is happening. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. continuedident trump to lash out at the central american migrant caravan making its way toward the u.s. border on monday, claiming without evidence that terrorists and members of the ms 13 gang had

infiltrated the group. pres. trump: go into the middle of the caravan. take your cameras and search, ok? you are going to find ms 13, middle eastern, you are going to find everything. and guess what? we are not allowing them in our country. we want safety. trump -- on a threat to cut aid to honduras, also bitter, guatemala, and called out democrats over the us border policy my blaming them the caravan sasaying they are behihd it in an ongoing attempt to turn the caravan into a main issue for the midterm elections. locals who live on the caravan route have in providing volunteer assistance, basic necessities, to the migrants heading north. this is a mexican resident. >> the only thing i can say is that they should be more human, that we should look into our hearts and imagine ourselves in the migrgrants' shoes because it is not easy what they're doing.

we mexicans like to criticize donald donald trump for the way he treats mexicans in the united states, and now we are acting just like him. we don't have any walls on our border, but sometimes we ourselves are the wall. amy: we haveve two guests. oscar chahacon is executitive director of alianza americas, an immigrant rights group based in chicago. in boston, patricia montes, executive director of centro presente in boston, which has worked with members from honduras and central america since the 1980''s. i want to start in boston toto talk to you about what is taking place, patricia. and if you can respond to president trump talking about the middle easterners in the ms 13 and iteris the group heading north, the crumbles, he said -- the terrorists in the group heading north, the criminals come he said? >> as a result [indiscernible] it is alarming crisis in

honduras, extreme poverty and violence that honduras has been facing for a very long time. and this crisis has been invisible within the conversation of the forced migration in the united states. juan: oscar chacon, you are there in el salvador. could you talk about how the countries of central america are viewing this confrontation now, this caravan? as you noted, these caravans have become a regular part of the migration process as many people who are desperately leaving central america feel safefer in groups of people because of all of the assaults inin the attacks are crimiminal gangs through mexico as they migrate to the u.s. b border? what the ask me governmentnt reaction hahas been cocome it has beeeen quiet. there hasn't really been any

official responsnses by the governmentnt of hohonduras, el salvadoror, guatemala, precisely the thrhreatat made by he wilill cut off aito t these countries.s. from the perspective of people just talkiking about whahat t ts caravavan represesents, most p e inin government th i talkeked t, butt also civil society actors, peoplerere very susurprised --ecause in many waways, it is so many people are leavaving central america, what is really nenew is they gather together at the moment of d departing. but the reality [indiscscernibl] it is very clear there h has ben increasing number, especially of hondurans, leaving the conditions that patricia was describing. again, the only surprising fafactor here is the timing.

clearly, in the u.s., the fact the caravan is happening now, is playing into the hands of president trump, very well-established campaign to essentially demonize [indiscernible] sadly, this is not something that is based on anything hondurans plan. it is not like people said, oh, let's schedule it for the time the midterm elections are about to happen. most people in central america are not even aware there is a midterm election happening in the u.s. the realitydistant is. amy: i want to go to one of the migrants responding to president trump's comments yesterday. this is melanio soto, a 44-year-old teacher from honduras. >> if trump is human, he should

think and reflect on what is happening. why honduras? her white people migrate from their country? as trump said, if the honduran president did not stop this, then it would be no economic support for honduras. so i say, was support for honduras? because you never see any kind of support. what does he do with the support? what does trump do with the support he gives the hondurans? because hondurans don't see anything. therefore, we are frustrated and titired of s so much repressionm our country. amy: oscar chacon, if you could talk about the u.s. support, the trump administration support for the president of honduras, who ??ey call joe the whole idea of the contested election, the people protested days on end, that international groups s said there shld b be a new electionon, and how ththat contriributes to t this marcrch northward? >> first of all, i think it is

fish u.s.for the foreign aid is not what most americans s like to think it is. very often u.s. foreign aid is like a b boomerang. you puput money - -- what they e to do o with the money to purche either merchandise or seservices from the u.s. ,n t the case of central america the last four or five years, which didid show a an increase n the normalal amount of u.s. foreign aid, has b been primariy eaearmarked for essentially sesecurity and d defense purpos. so the purpose j just the pepern you anan interview, is correct. they d do not necessarilyy see a tangible manner what the u.s. aid meaeans. what is true is ththe people in government, in this case in honduras with hernandez, he''s

been able to build far more than anybody elsese before him. his armed,d, his policice, whice political t tools to essentially shut up people who are criticizing him. is the we're seeing here end result, if you want, and a series of steps thahat have b bn taken by the u.s. government, not only to support a legitimate election last november, but also, remember, the coup d'etat that was justified and supported by the u.s. government back in 2009. so in mamanyays,s, what we''re seeing is the logical consequence of all of these steps the was foreign-policy in the r region have actually been takeken for many, many years. ton: patricia montes, i want ask you about the pressure that president trump is putting not only on the central american government, but now especially on mexico summit to disperse and stop this caravan.

obviously, the mexican president pena nieto is in the last weeks of his presidency before december 1 when lopez obrador takes over. your sense of what mexico is doing in reaction to president trump's pressure? >> mexico has been repressing migrants for a very long time. i think the president obviously right now is putting more pressure on mexico in order to stop forced migration, specially from central america, coming to the united daysys. i think i personally the mexican government has been [indiscernible] stop forced migration from central america. i think they have an repressing people for a very long time. i think it is important to understand that not just mexico, but all governments in the micro route, have the opportunity right now to reflect and think about why people are coming to

the united states or trying to come to ththe uniteded states, d they should respect basic human rights of all people in the caravan. unfortunately, they have [indiscernible] more militarization and that is the answer to receive migrants. unfortunate, i don't think that is a good answer. .epression is not the answer people are coming and looking for international protection. amy: this is a 32-year-old unemployed salesman from honduras. he is one of the thousands of people making the way up from honduras right now. tweet is worrying, but he does not know how we have suffered as he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth all we weren't. if you put himself in our shoes, it would be very different. if you walked what we walk. he never walks. , talk abouta montes how this particular caravanan ws organized and what are the numbers you are seeing right

now? up to 7000 people making their way north now in southern mexico? 2000 people. it is important understand what has been happening in hondurasas and the role of the u.s. and the crisis hundreds has been facing for a very long time. there are two particular moment in history, like the coup d'etat that took place in 2009 and the hernandez. orlando it increases the political and economic instability. and now we're seeing the results. people are leavingng because thy don't have alternatives. it is doubt about looking for better opportunities, is looking to -- it is not about looking for better opportunities, it is about looking to survive. we need to see fundamental changes. the other problem is the united states is saying they are going

to cut aid. that is very controversial. most of the aid that is going to hundreds is to militarize the country, and that is not the answer. that is not the solution. , i want to chacon ask you, the efforts of president trump to raise this issue and stick on it are clearly having some impact. your sense of how this may actually impact the elections that are coming up in n just a couplele of weeks here in the itited s states? >> i don't doubt there may be some impact, but let''s bebe clr ababout the following. the fafact this president has bn so obsessed with immigrantnts ad immigratn as a k key compone of his messasage from m the daye announced his desire to become president of the u.s. in 2015 should not make any one of us

surprised he is using the caravan, essentially, to further advance his well-established line against immigrants by demonizing them, dehumumanizing them. frfrankly, i believe the electin was shaped the moment [indiscernible] if there is a negative impact in terms of who will come out and vote, i don't believe the caravan could any way be blamed for that for together event. we should not be surprised -- if i regret one thing, there is no ststrong counter from the .emocratic party i believe that is a flaw we need to do with and find a way of fixingng in ththe u.s. amy: oscar, the vililification that t trump uses, whether he is talking about the criminals from

central america or the middle easterners. sarah sanders was asked about this is the white house spokesperson. and she offered no backing up of saying there are middle easterners in the middle of this as they talked about terrorists. but what effect this has on communities across ththis count? >> look, this is banking on almost three decades of systemic messssage to the effect of nationals arare a threat. they are killers,, rapists. d this i iwhat consistently this been said both about especially m mexicans. amy: we want to thank you both for being with us. we want to ask you to stay with us. we would like to do another interview in spanish for democracy now!w! investment all. oscar chacon, executive director of alianza americas, an immigrant rights group based in

chicago. and patricia montes, immigrant from honduras, and executive director of centro presente in boston. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york, nenew yo