12/10/18 12/10/18 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from the u.n. climate summit in katowice, poland, this is democracy now! wake up!

amy: thousands of climate activists march in poland as the united states joins russia, saudi arabia, and kuwait in watering down a statement accepting the u.n. study on the catastrophic threat of climate change. this comes as poland's right-wing government blocks at least a dozen climate activists from entering poland. >> it is absolutely extremely concerning that those organizations representing the voices of people are shut out when in the same voice, just yesterday, an executive of shell was practically boasting about their influence in the paris agreement. amy: but first, federal prosecutors have accused president trump of committing a federal crime by directing illegal hush money to two women during the presidential election. could this lead to trump's impeachment?

we will speak to investigative journalist marcy wheeler. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we are broadcasting from the u.n.: climate summit in katowice , poland. federal prosecutors have accused president trump of committing a federal crime by directing illegal hush money during the presidential campaign to two won, adult film star stormy danis and foer playboy model karen mcdougal, during the presidential election. the accusation is contained in a sentencing memo for michael cohen, trump's former attorney, who has admitted that trump directed him to pay the women in order to prevent them from speaking to the media during the campaign about their alleged affairs with trump. incoming house judiciary chair

jerry nadler says the payments could be an impeachable offense. he was interviewed on sunday by cnn's jake tapper. >> if it is proven, are those impeachable offenses? >> well, they would be impeachable offenses, whether they are important enough to justify impeachment is the question. even though they were committed before the president became president, they were committed in the service of fraudulently obtaining the office. that would be an impeachable offense. amy: from's former personal lawyer michael cohen is being prosecuted for the payments by the u.s. attorneys office of the southern district of new york. on friday, special counsel robert mueller also issued a sentencing memo for cohen as well as trump's former campaign chair paul manafort as part of the probe into russia's meddling in the 2016 election. we will have more on the significance of the filings

after headlines. president trump announced saturday his chief of staff john kelly would step down at the end of the year. early reports said trump wanted vice president mike pence's chief-of-staff nick ayers to replace kelly, but ayers said sunday he will not take the job and would soon leave the administration. "the new york times" is reporting president trump's adviser and son-in-law jared kushner circumvented white house protocol by having private conversations with crown prince mohammed bin salman after the murder of saudi journalist jamal khashoggi by saudi hit men on october 2. in the saudi consulate in istanbul, turkey. kushner reportedly advised the crown prince on how to "weather the storm." president trump and a number of top white house officials have refused to acknowledge bin salman's involvement in the murder, despite the cia

concluding with high confidence that he was directly responsible for ordering the killing. cnn is reporting khashoggi repeatedly said "i can't breathe " during his final moments alive in the saudi consulate in istanbul before he was murdered and dismembered. president trump has nominated william barr to be the next attorney general. barr previously served as attorney general under president george h.w. bush in the early 1990's and is known for his expansive view of executive power. if confirmed, barr will oversee mueller's investigation. as bush's attorney general, he was involved in the pardon of six reagan officials for the iran-contra scandal. more recently, he has expressed sympathy f for president trump's demand that hillary clinton be prosecuted over her use of a private e email server.

he also supports many of former attorney general jeff sessions' position on so-called religious freedom, and hard-line stance on immigration. in 1995, he wrote that the u.s. government should not be secular and should subsidize catholic religious education and promote laws that "restrain sexual immorality." the european union's top court ruled today that the u.k. can unilaterally reverse brexit anytime before march 29, the deadline for the u.k. to leave the european union under the current schedule. the ruling comes as british prime minister teresa may must -- moments ago called off a parliamentary vote of midst vocal opposition, included from within her own conservative party. onshe fails to pass the vote brexit, could undergo a second referendum. thousands of demonstrators from both the remain and pro-brexit camps took to the streets in london over the weekend ahead of the crucial vote.

in france, the yellow vest protests continued for the fourth consecutive week. an estimated 130,000 people took to the streets across the country over the weekend, resulting in over 1700 arrests. in paris, major attractions including the louvre and the eiffel tower were closed in anticipation of the demonstrations. protesters a and police clashehd again in the capital and other cities with police firing rubber bullets, water cannons, and tear gas at crowds and some protesters smashing windows and setting vehicles on fire. the french government halted plans for the fuel tax hike at the center of the protest, but demonstrators are calling for additional economic reforms and many for the resignation of president emmanuel macron. macron is set to address the nation later today. meanwhile, a video has gone viral, showing french high school studentnts lined up on their knees with their hands behind their heads or their backs as police officers watch over them.

students have been protesting plans to reform the exam system. some yellow vest protesters kneeled before police in paris saturday in a gesture of solidarity with the students. yellow vest protests have started in other countries, including belgium, where around 400 people were reportedly arrested over the weekend as protesters clashed with riot squads in the capital brussels. here at the u.n. climate talks in katowice, poland, the u.s., saudi arabia russia, and kuwait , have blocked language welcoming october's landmark ipcc climate report, which warned of the catastrophic effects of a global temperature increase of 1.5 degrees celsius, or 2.7 degrees fahrenheit, beyond which global crises could unfold at a rapid pace. the four countries rejected using the word "welcome," insisting members instead "note" the findings of the widely cited u.n. report.

the report was b blocked hours after thousands of climate protesters marched in katowice on saturday to call out poland's promotion of coal mining and to demand urgent action on climate change. major climate protests took place in a number of other polish cities, as well as in montreal, where protesters spoke out against the trans mountain expansion pipeline, and in paris, where an estimated 25,000 people marched, at times overlapping with the yellow vest demonstrations. >> climate nowadays is really fundamental and in particular, in the context of social debate will stop both causes converge because decision makers and leaders are e elected to take decisions in both areas. today, the context urges us to fighght. there's a climate emergency and also an increasing social emergency. amy: we will bring you voices from the protest here in katowice later in the broadcast. in colombia, an indigenous

governor from the southwestern department of cauca was killed last week. edwin dagua ipia had received death threats from paramilitary groups prior to his murder. a local human rights group reported 10 indigenous people have been murdered in colombia in a span of just eight days. another indigenous governor in a neighboring area was attacked but survived. saturday local leaders are calling out the far-right government of ivan duque for the spike in murders and a failure to protect indigenous leaders. in virginia, a jury convicted described neo-nazi james alex fields of first degree murder for killing anti-fascist protester heather heyer at the deadly charlottesville rally last year. fields plowed his car into a crowd of people protesting the white supremacist "unite the right" rally, killing 32-year-old heyer and injuring 35 others. a sentencing hearing is set to take place today. fields is also facing separate

federal hate crime charges, which could result in the death penalty. in canada, prosecutors have confirmed that meng wanzhou, chief financial officer of chinese tech giant huawei, was arrested in connection with possible u.s. fraud charges linked to iran sanctions. meng was arrested in vancouver on december 1 after a u.s. arrest work was issued in august. she now faces extradition to the united states. meng, who is also the daughter of the founder of huawei, is accused of using a subsidiary, skycom, to mislead financial institutions and to try to import u.s.-made technology to iran in violation of u.s. sanctions. china has called for meng's release and summoned the u.s. and canadian ambassadors over the weekend. and this year's nobel peace prize will be handed out today to dr. denis mukwege and nadia murad. dr. mukwege founded the panzi hospital in the democratic republic of congo, which treats women requiring surgery as a result of sexual violence.

nadia murad is a yazidi kurdish human rights activist from iraq. she was kidnapped by the islamic state and repeatedly raped. adia accepting her award. special day for me. it is the day when good has try them to come the day when humanity defeated terrorism, the day that the children and women who have suffered persecution have triumphed over the perpetrators of these crimes. i hope that tododay marks the beginning of a new era when peace is the priority in the world can collectively begin to define a new roadmap to protect women, children, and minorities from persecution, in particular, victims of sexual violence. nermeen: and i'm nermeen shaikh. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. federal prosecutors have accused president trump of committing a

federal crime by directing illegal hush money to two women during the presidential election. the accusation was revealed friday, in filings made public by the u.s. attorney's office in the southern district of new york, including a damning sentencing memo for trump's former attorney michael cohen, who has admitted to paying the women. the memo states -- "with respect to both payments, cohen acted with the intent to influence the 2016 presidential election, he acted in coordination with and at the direction of individual-1." individual-1 is a reference to president donald trump. the payments were made to adult film star stormy daniels and former playboy model karen mcdougal during the campaign in order to prevent them from speaking to the media about their alleged affairs with trump. amy: the sentencing memo was made public friday along with two new sentencing memos from special counsel robert mueller

-- one for cohen and another for trump's former campaign chair paul manafort. we go now to grand rapids, michigan, where we are joined by independent journalist marcy wheeler. she edits emptywheel.net and has been closely following the multiple investigations of president trump. welcome back to democracy now! can you explain what is most significant about these filings? and just for people to understand, we're talking about filings from two different places, from the mueller inquiry officem the prosecutor's from the u.s. attorney's office. >> right. there are two sentencing memos, both for cohen, one out of manhattan as you said, the us attorney's office in new york, and one out of mueller's office. the manafort thing is not a sentencing memo. it is just a memo laying out the thathe told in the reasons

the government has said he violated his plea agreement and all of the benefits that he thought he was going to get out of that are now gone. the news that is catching attention is what you just said, which is that in the new york sentencing memo, it makes it very clear -- it does not accuse trump, but makes it very clear that what cohen did in setting up these hush payments, and important, getting reimbursed by the trash organization for these hush payments, he did it with donald trump's knowledgege and n his instructioion. and in the e right wing thehey'e sort of thing, this is just a trump thispaign -- morning tweeted out and said that as well. but what they're missing is the language u.s.s. attorney in new york uses isisery clearlrly talking about fraud to carry out that campaign finance violation. for example, they point to all

of the efforts at cohen and the trump organization used the height of payments and a hide what they were actually for. things like the shell company that cohen setup to carry out the payments. i would expect the next charges, the ones that might name trump as an unindicted co-conspirator but will almost certainly named trump organization -- remember, his company can be indicted -- and also probably whichever one of his children is named in this filing as well. they will be charged with what is called conspiracy to defraud the united states. the e argument is that any time you carry out fraud to hide the fact -- to hide stuff that prevents the government from , when youlatory work do that, that is a crime in and of itself irregardless of how serious the campaign finance violation is. that seems to be where they're goining in new york. there is a bunch of stuff in the

other two memo says say mueller has similar kinds of crimes coming in his investigation, as well as the conspiracy with russia. there is still some hints that will come reasonably soon as well. nermeen: marcy, i want to go to democratic congress member jerry nadler, the incoming chair of the house judiciary committee. he was interviewed on sunday by cnn's jake tapper about michael money. paying hush >> is it is proven, are those impeachable offenses? >> well, they would be impeachable offenses whether they are important enough to justify an impeachment is a different question. certain, they would be impeachable offenses because even though theyey were committd before the president became president, they were committed in the service of fraudulently obtaining the office. that would be an impeachable offense. , can youmarcy wheeler

comment on what nadler said? its significance, and these are in fact impeachable offenses he says? >> the idea is that you cheated to win. you cheated to win the office of presidency. and that goes to the core of whether or not you should be president. it sounds like where nadadler is going is the underlying crime, the hush payment may not be grave enough by itself to sustain an impeachment, but as i mentioned, there was stuff in the filings on friday that suggests mueller is going to charge similar crimes. just as one example, one of the things paul manafort lied about is that he was getting payments through a super pac from tom barrack, who is one of trump's biggest donors, the guy who hired paul manafort in the first place. so he was getting payments through a super pac that

themselves are probably not legal. and it raises queststions -- the question we have always asked about paul manafort is, he was dead broke for the entire time he was working for trump. so who was paying him? if you was being paid through the super pac, for example, then it is another example of, as i said before, the conspiracy to defraud the united states. what i expect is what we see in new york, we're going to see parallel kinds of charges but tied to hiding the role of russians in mueller's investigations. in those together i think will add up. the other thing that i think is really important, people have forgot to this entire process, we keep talking about whether you can indict a sitting president. there is still a debate about that, but really critically, you can indict a corporation. you can indict trump organization. and that filing in new york, frankly, the cohen filing from mueller as well,

both make it quite clear that the trump organization was involved in this fraudulent activity. i think we should start talking a lot more about how trump is going to react when is a taunus corporation starts getting charged in crimes as well. that is where his ego is an vested. that is where his alleged billions are invested. and that, too, i think makes him vulnerable in other ways presidents have not been. an acre the issue is, i mean, you have the hush payments for the alleged affairs trump was trying to keep secret. but then on the issue of russian 2016 election, which is supposedly what this inquiry was all about, explain what you think is most significant about what both michael cohen has said why,hat manafort has said, for example, building a trump tower in moscow weighs in here and more.

and what were you most surprised by, marcy? >> it wasn't surprising. we're still getting more details about cohen's version of the trump tower deal. but the language that the mueller's prosecutors used in his sentencing memo was released dark. it laid out that trump tower deal could have meant hundreds of millions of dollars for trump. that trump tower deal, they make it explicit, probably required the involvement of the russian government. that trump tower deal was being arranged at the same time as the june 9 meeting with her to about over and over again. so there is that paragraph in the cohen memo which lays out the stakes of what it meant for trump, for cohen, for don jr. to be open to a meeting with vladimir putin and open to a meeting from russians offering election-year assistance on

behalf of the russian government. so the language that rob goldstone, the music promoter who set up to do nine meeting, he talks about a package of assistance from the russian government. the cohen memo makes it very clear now what that would have meant to don jr.. to don jr., it would admit hundreds of millions of dollars if vladimir putin would buy off on this trump tower deal. so it really changes his willingness, most of the witnesses in that meeting say that at the end of that meeting he said, sure, we will revisit these sanctions when and if my dad wins. changes the entire meaning of that meeting. and i forget makes it a lot clearer what the quid pro quo there was involved. and it was about money. again, money for the trump organization. so it goes to that corporate entity that can also be charged

in addition to don jr., who keeps talking about his expectation he will be indicted. nermeen: marcy wheeler, what steps do you expect the trump administration to now take? i mean, the white house has essentially entirely dismissed what happened on friday, saying nothing new was revealed and nothing damaging to the president. >> well, it is not clear they can do much. matt whitaker has not been able to prevent anything from happening. it is not yet clear whether he has cleared his ethics review. it is not yet clear whether he actually is in direct control of the mueller investigation yet because he should be recused. you should be ethically not permitted to be in charge of this. the thing is, i mean, the mueller -- the manafort discussion about the lies he told, that is going to go regardless -- ford regardless of what occurs said. don jr. sounds like he

recognizes more and more that mueller has the goods, not just that he lied, but that he lied for reason. he lied to hide this larger deal ththat was going on. it sounds like michael cohen has provided a great till 11 in support of that. that is why the mueller prosecutor said he actually should get some consideration in his sentencing. i'm not sure what trump can do to interrupt it. he wants to bring in william barr him of the attorney general, but he, too, is going to have ethical problems because he interviewed to be on trump's defense team. it is not even clear if he does get confirmed quickly that he will be able to help trump in the way that he helped bush years ago in telling me iran contrary years ago. we will see. it may be beyond from's ability to really undercut this investigation anymore. amy: marcy wheeler, thank you

remote for being with us, independent journalist who covers national security and civil liberties, runs the website emptywheel.net. we will link to your latest piece "the quid pro quo was even tighter than i imagined." this is democracy now! when we come back, we go to the streets of katowice, poland, were thousands marched this weekend. and we go underground in a coal mine here in poland. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: music from the nobel peace prize ceremony.

prize for their fight against sexual violence. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. we are broadcasting from the u.n. climate summit in katowice, poland. nermeen: thousands of climate activists marched here in katowice, poland, on saturday calling for world leaders to do more to keep rising greenhouse gas emissions in check. it was the only permitted protest during the two-week u.n. climate talks. earlier this year, poland's right-wing government banned all spontaneous protests and gatherings within the city. the police have also been given the authority to carry out widespread surveillance during the summit. in addition, polish authorities blocked some climate activists from entering the country. the climate action network reports at least 12 members of civil society were denied entry into poland. amy: well, on saturday, democracy now! was in the streets of katowice.

[chanting] >> we are surrounded by robocop's, which is ridiculous. this is a completely peaceful protest. beautiful energy from people all around the world. but it is showing the relationship between state power in protecting the interest of the fossil fuel companies. europe imports about half of the world's gas and produces almost none of it. europe has a usually important role of play and using hundreds of billions of euros of public money to build a new w generatin of fossil fuel infrastructure, fossil gas infrastructures the wrong direction when all of that money could be spent on nonrenewable. we're going after fight. we say, if the mission is a bridge fuel, let's take out the bridge. stop fossil fuel industry rightt here.

let's go directly to the renewable energy transition we need. we don't have to lock ourselves into another 30 years of fossil fuel infrastructure. [chanting] >> i uganda. of part of the delegation global grins. it is a network of the parties in the world and we're here to push for policies to put forth measures of climate mitigation. world together because climate change is a global -- it is a global issue. -- it is one of the causes of climate change. it is grit that has brought about the attack on the forest in yemen. it is grit that has brought

about -- in my countrtry uganda. it is grit t that is brought abt the attack on the forest in uganda, my country. it is also grit that has brought about fracking in the u.k. so we're here today on the streets to join others to fight back, to give a message to our leaders to stop the grit and think about the generation to come. >> keep the oil in the soil. keep the tar in the sands. keep the gas in the lands. >> i come from the philippines. feminists demand climate justice. we're here to expose and oppose much of fascism.

not just in the halls of the negotiation, but all of the world. from where i come from, the philippines, duterte is a macho , killing everyone who gets in his way. it is the same thing all over the world. fascism rise of macho who decides on the future of our planet. we cannot allow that to happen. we need to rise up. the government here do not want critical voices. they want to silence us. their turn to silence critical voices -- they are trying to sell is critical voices during the climate talks. they say demonstrations are not allowed, protest are not allowed. you have they don't allow it, we will assert our rights to express ourselves and protest. >> and from corporate accountability based in boston. we're here in solidarity with people's movements around the

world demanding climate justice. the people's demand for a climate justice at cop24. it is extremely concerning that those organizations representing the voices of people are shut , justen in the same voice yesterday, an executive of shell was practically boasting about their influence in the paris agreement and shaping parts of agreement and shaping parts of it, like article six on market. this is unacceptable. we have a corporation that still is not being held accountable for a long track record of human rights and environmental crimes, including in the niger delta and for to be boasting about how it is shaping the global agreement about how the world response to climate change, that is shameful and unacceptable. >> i with grassroots global justice alliance. here with the delegation from north america. we feel like the solution of transition is critical.

this brings it more home to us because we have folks in our movement from appalachia who right now are taking over mitch mcconnell's office this week because of the conditions happening with black long and the serious health impacts of the coal workers and communities whose water and land have been polluted. it is s not a question of w wkes versrsus communityty, but togetr we have a solution. we are bringing a real vision of just transition that can transform the whole economy while also dealing with this urgent climate crisis. >> this is the place, one of the where it is not very nice air-quality. not a very nice air-quality. it is not a good example for step we are some places in this place where air-quality is the

worst in europe. this is the reason people have to use masks. this is the symbol for the cop24 . that if we want to talk about changes, first we have to think about people. >> i am from friends of the earth indonesia. ourre here professing government because our government plans to build more coal power plants. we need to leave coal immediately. there is a typhoon. people have to leave their places because they cannot live there anymore. the water is coming to their place. it is impossible for them to liveve in that place.

souths why we ask for the , the developing countries, they have to act fast. they need to reduce their emissions. they need to do it now. >> i am from south africa. voices ofto emphasize poor people all over the world who are demanding climate justice. we have no more time. this is the time to act. my main mission coming here was also to ensure that there is no nuclear subsidies in climate finance. nuclear is not a solution to climate change, can never be a solution to climate change because of it is high carbon intensive. --this cop, what to expect to actually listen to what the ipcc report says, that nuclear is not a solution to climate

change. it can never be a solution. it should not even be considered. india and social action form. i come from south india, a coastal city of, where they're taking way water and land of people and polluting our lives. climate change is very real now. we see unprecedenteded floodingn our part of f the world. we also see e climate change, things getting hotter all of the time. and we see the corporations are completely oblivious to it. and even though our nations come here to cop and talked all of the great talk, walking the walk is actually much needed and that is not happening in our country. they still support corporations and landgrab for corporations. they are saying they get their subsidies. farmers are struggling. we had a big march with farmers down parliament street from all over the country.

congregating in delhi, the national capital, demanding there's a special session of parliament for farmers issues. because farmers in india are committing suicide. they are struggling every day. this kind of shortsighted development parts that we are treading is something that is going to land us all into a hell hole. >> my name is patricia from the act alliance. we're here today because the impact of climate change in our country. we're having long droughts and flooding. when we're having so much drought, it means you cannot grow crops. they're having long hunger. women and children are affected. children don't have food at school. his cannot afford school fees because they do not have crops to sell. the impact is quite great. when it floods him of the farm -- animals are dying.

the world cannot see our suffering and cannot commit to finance -- it is not fair. it is not climate justice. that is why the act alliance is saying act now for climate justice. cooks and a finance campaigner. preventing -- the colleagues by mere trend to prevent what is deemed to be the plant.al controversial project. we're using public lands to try to change the insurance industry. in europe, there was a tremendous shift. a campaign to started on u.s. insurers. we're told the asia

project, having trouble to insure. coal is not insurable. turkey and indonesia, can't build it in poland and other places. what do we want? >> climate justice! amy: just some of the voices of thousands of people who marched saturday for climate here in katowice, poland. of: one of the members parliamentary -- parliament, thomas waitz of austria, confronted undercover polish officials who were monitoring the protest. democracy now's tami woronoff spoke to waitz shortly after the confrontation. >> so these people don't want to tells from which organization they are. i'm a member of the european telling thend he is first year is not speaking english, that he speaks english and he says we are group of friends here. i will ask you a last time, legitimize yourself, from which organization are you?

you're all dressed in the same way. for who are you working? excuse me, sir? can you hear me? so this is something we see here, how the polish government hides their own officials. they're not even ready to say who they are and who they work for. my name is thomas waitz, member of the european parliament. >> where do you think they are from? >> i think they're part of the polish officials. i think they're part of the secret service or they are part of the police force trying to hide their identity. >> why do you think they are here? >> i think they're here to intervene from inside the protest if there are any problems, but i don't know what they are actually doing here because there are so many police air. there are thousands of policemen guarding these very few

protesters, which are ordinary people, not doing anything wrong. this is a complete rididiculous over security measure here. it is important the police guides the demonstration, but these persons here, they try to hide her identity and they have a secret mission. they're also trying to hide their faces. they are hiding their faces behind scarves. >> can you describe the police presence here a little bit? >> it is scary. the police are equipped with big amounts of tear gas. they are equipped with electric tasers. they are completely armed as they would go to war. this is a complete overdone security measure. these people here i would say, 90% absolutely peacefuful, norml citizens using their rights to demonstrate. but this is a very militaristic and very aggressive attitude that we see, especially these guys, not even say who they are working for. who are you working for? come on, tell us.

he is turning around. is thesage they send official representatives are polish politics, do not see the climate rescue movement as allies but more as enemies. i can feel that people feel threatened here as enemies and not as a welcome part of civil society. amy: european parliamentarian thomas waitz of austria. when we come back, democracy now! goes into a coal mine. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: "emigrant polka" by the warsaw village band. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. we are broadcasting from the u.n. climate summit in katowice, poland. nermeen: protests are taking place here inside the u.n. climate talks over a presentation by the united states pushing for the expansion of coal power plants and other fossil fuels. poland, which is hosting the climate talks, has also used the summit to promote coal. several state-owned polish coal companies have sponsored parts of the talks. well, on sunday, democracy now! visited the guido coal mine near katowice, which has been turned into a mining museum. amy: democracy now!'s mike burke spoke with the polish environmental lawyer bartosz kwiatkowski, director of frank bold foundation which is involved in numerous lawsuits challenging the expansion of coal mining in poland.

>> i am a lawyer and at the same time, director of the foundation, a branch of international ngo based here in poland. mainly, , we work in an environment a law. right now we are working with climate change. there are cases in which we're helping other ngos, also making our own activities and helping grassrsroots citizens. they are connenected with open t mines. there connected with coal mines and power plants come usisingoal to reduce electricity. we use environmental approach mainly to fight against those installations. it also social problems connected with operation of this whole dish in terms of how it impacts our citizens. >> can you give an overview of the significance of coal in this region? >> it is a hard question because

it used to be the most important thing. but it has changed a lot. right now in the place where we are right now, more than 2.2 million people, but the same time, only 80,000 are minors. it used to be more than 300,000. the situation completely has changed. people right now, many people are against coal because using -- it is causing problems. there are problems connected with coal. the first one is connected with climate change. it is connected with operation of our power plants. leastwould say it is the recognized problem by polish citizens. they don't feel it right now so it started this year, the , becausens around the

of the ipcc reports. so it started to be a topic in media and for regular citizens. the other perspective will be national. , fuelng coal, hard coal to heat your house is. it is a very big problem in poland. fuelpeople still use this to heat houses. and because of that, we have a huge problem with air quality. -- the first thing will be connect with places where the extractingare m mines lignite are located. it is connected with environmental and collapsing -- wengs, here and inside feel shakes. it is connected with lack of water, especially in the area where farmers are in open could mines, having not enough water for their fieldlds and so on.

this perspective that i think most people right now in poland see the coal and lignite. also 70% of polish people think we should resign from coal as a main source of power. the problem with health and t te impact of the air pollution on health is that we cannot really find a dirirect l link between r pollution. the organization's sing every year in poland, around 45,000 people are dying because of air pollution. but of course, it doesn't work like this ever going oututside r house e and just falling down ad dying.. it is rather a process. of course, it is a big problem for pregnant women and elderly people and people who have heart disease, lung disease, asthma

problems, and so on. duringan see every year winter, more such people are dying in hospitals. >> can you talk about where we are right now? >> we're in the guido coal mine. is a former coal mine. it is not operating anymore. i think that is the future for coal mines in the region. manyow how it looked like years ago. the coleman was established in the 19th century, one of the noble families. its operations i think in 20 or 25 years ago. right now you c can visit to see how the coleman operated in the 19th century, but also you can go deeper to 365 meters a and se how the miners worked there 25 years ago. >> let's go win.

-- let go in. i guess we have to take the lift now. >> thiis what miners used owing and every day to extract coal. this is going quite fast. we can feel the pressure in our ears. the atmospheric pressure is changing. we're going to hundred meters a minute. >> here we are. >> we are over 300 meters underground. it is around the eiffel tower. >> there are train tracks down here. >> coal used to transport from the shaft with carriages you can

see here, the same shaft was used for transporting coal and miners on the ground. we're walking through a quite , not very high tunnel underground. we can see the train that was used for transporting coal and also walking on tracks on which these carriages were riding. that is interesting because here you can see the signature of one -- he most famous polish was here five years ago, 22nd of october, yeah. >> we come from the united states. president trump campaigned on a platform of bringing coal back to the u.s. and opening new coal plants. i'm wondering, if you had a chance to get president trtrumpa tour of say over this cololeman, what would your message to him

be? >> first message will be, look what is happening around the world. we cannot see it here inin polod for example yet, but you can see it in the u.s. already. is alland tornadoes, it connected to climate change. the manger -- the main reason the tempererature is rising is using coal and gas and so on. many people who cacame here to katowice, and we'rere talking about that everyry day, they're losingng their land, their hous, losing their lives because of climate change. we can switch to something different thatat doesn't mean we we canave labor because work and renewables, for exexample, many people will be employed better. talking frorom the polish perspective,e, right now energys cheaper than energy from power plants usingng coal. so that is the direction we should go.

>> we arrived in poland on saturday and went straight to the climate protest that marched up to the entrance of the cop conference. we were shocked by the number of police, both riot police and what would like undercover police, trolling the street for a somewhat smamall protest. whatat was your reacaction to wt happens? >> the process, if i h heard was 4000 people. the number of police officers around was more than 1500. it is crazy, to be honest. the first time i see such a situation so, let's a small, then l large. peaceful march because peoplple were marching peacefully. there were so many officers.

that fits in the policy the government is doing around cop. they're saying there's a high terrorist risk right now in poland. the introduced a special law. otherows police and services to make some surveillance over the citizens and the cop attendees. i don't see there are threats here. for me, that is not proportional at all. bridging over human rights to protest to say what we think about the climate change, to say what we think about our government or other govovernmens polices. >> whahat message do y you think this is to climate activist, that t they are almost in treatd like enemies of the state? -- many wereists arrested in the past t four ther

actions. in thehe forest, for examplele,n people were fightingng against cutting down the oldest forest in europe, the forest was used against them. they were convicted. ththey were accucused of commitg crimes. the messagage we get every day here in poland. not only in poland. it is nothing new for us. when the ipcc the same will he have 12 years to act, i think it is time to get to the table and talk and not to fight with each other. we should be partners, not enemies. >> as a lawyer, can you talk about some of the legal struggles going on in this country y right now araround col projects and other projects connnnected to climate change?e? >> we have a lotot of legal actions taken by not only civic society, but also some investors of power plants who think ththat some investments gain their

interest. peopleaken by ordinary p power coal mine or plant. those actions are cononnected wh stopping the cononstruction of w open pit mines, with e expanding of old ones, with expanding coal mines. with for example, connect the huge r risk to environmenta, a huge risk for the security people living next to them, to the e coal mine. also one for emissions, which are made by power plants. very often, unfortunately, those power plants -- how much emissions of greenhouse gases, mercury they do. we're using a list every possible legal tool does almost y possible legal

tool. is connected to lack of water. lack of water means it affects everyday lives, but farmers cannot operate at all without water. that is a big problem for people as well. >> it is interesting they turn his coal mine into a museum. i'm wondering, how much discussion is going on in poland about moving away from coal as an energy source and moving toward renewables? >> as i into before, the service showing 70% -- the survey is showing 70% of people believe in leaving coal. unfortunate, not only the current government, all of our government after 1989, supports coal and coal miners because of political reasons. said, the coal is ending. even if we don't want to make a

transition, we have to. to discusswe start it, the faster we start to make decisions, the better for us and the better for climate and the environment, of course. >> what about wind power? >> that is a big problem right now because our government or the parliament last year introduced a special regulation which in fact banned the construction of new wind power. >> right now you're trying -- they're trying to expand coal mining but they are banning wind power? >> unfortunately, that is true. >> i guess our lift is here to go back up. one final western before we go, what is your message for delegates inside the u.n. climate conference, whihich is taking place in ur homelanand? >> i think everybody here has the same message. the representative of ngos, the politicians -- i think the main message you have to start

acting. you u have to agree with expert. you are not experts in climate issues and we have to trust scientists who are experts. two minutes before midnight until we die, we have to act today. for the future of the planet.