02/21/19 02/21/19 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from pacifica, this is democracy now! >> the demonization of carbon dioxide is just like the demonization of the poor jews under hitler. carbon dioxide is a benefit to the world and so were the jews. trump isident considering naming a prominent climate change denier to head a new white house panel looking at the national security implications of global warming. the official, william happer, has long claimed increasing the

amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere will actually benefit humans. we will speak to david wallace wells, author of the new book "the uninhabitable earth: life after warming." it is a lot worse than people think because scientists and journalists have not told the full story. we used to be told it was coming centuries down the road and it is right in the present and we're doing that damage ourselves in real time. we used to be told it was an issue of sea level rise and it .s an all-encompassing threatt there's really no life on planet earth that will not be affected by it in the coming centuries. amy: but first, criminal justice advocates score a victory as the supreme court limits the ability of states to seize property from -- property and impose excessive use of people accused of crimes. the case was filed by main

indiana after his $42,000 land rover was seized. we will speak with a former judge and justice department official who now campaigns against excessive fines. all that and more, coming up. welcome to d democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. in maryland, an active duty coast guard lieutenant will appear in court today after being arrested last friday after federal investigators uncovered a domestic terror plot to kill high profile liberal figures including democratic lawmakers, media personalities, and judges. 49-year-old christopher paul hasson, a self-described white nationalist, reportedly had a stockpile of 15 guns and more than 1000 round of ammunition. his hit list included house speaker nancy pelosi, civil

rights pioneer angela davis, freshman congress members alexandriaia ocasio-cortezez and ilhan omar, msnbc host chris hayes, and democratic presidential hopefuls senators kirsten gillibrand, elizabeth warren, cory booker, and kamala harris, among others. hasson was reportedly inspired by the far-right norwegian terrorist anders breivik, who in 2011 killed 77 people in a bomb attack and a mass shooting. in a draft email obtained by prosecutors, hasson wrote -- "i am dreaming of a way to kill almost every last person on the earth." court documents also revealed he wanted to "establish a white homeland." the white house is organizing a new committee to examine whether climate e change poses a threato national security. in trump's government

says it does. trump is considering naming princeton university physicist and trump science advisor william happer to head the effort. he is a known climate change denier. he has accused the national oceanographic and atmospheric administration of manipulating climate data and compared climate science to the holocaust. this is dr. happer and a 2014 interview. >> the demonization of carbon dioxide is just like the demonization of the poor jews under hitler. carbon dioxide is a benefit to the world and so worthy jews. amy: we'll have more on this story later in the broadcast. in a major victory foror civil liberties advocates, the supreme court unanimously ruled to limit the practice of civil asset forfeiture, a controversial practice where police seize property that belongs to people suspected of crimes, even if they are never convicted.

on wednesday, the court ruled the eighth amendment protects people from state and local authorities imposing onerous fines, fees, and forfeitures to generate money. the case centered on indiana man tyson timbs, who had sold drugs and was sentenced to prison. timbs didn't contest his sentence but objected to police seizing his land rover, which was worth four times the maximum fine he could receive from his drug conviction. after the unanimous ruling in timbs' favor, justice ruth bader ginsburg delivered the court's opinion, saying -- "the historical and logical case for concluding that the 14th amendment incorporates the excessive fines clause is overwhelming." we'll have more on the significance of this historic ruling after headlines. authorities in bangladesh say an estimated 80 people have dieiedn a massive fire that burned down several building in a poor, centuries-old neighborhood in

the capital dhaka. the death toll is expected to rise as more bodies are uncovered. the fire started on the ground floor of a chemical warehouse for spreading to neighboring structures. residents say they had raised safety concerns over the wawarehouse, but were ignored by authorities. in mexico, two radio journalists have been murdered in the past. -- in the past week. on wednesday, environmental activist and community radio producer samir flores soberanes was killed in the state of morelos shortly before a referendum on a thermal-electric plant and pipeline project he had opposed. on saturday, radio announcer reynaldo lopez was fatally attacked by armed gunman in sonora. another reporter, carlos cota was with lopez, but survived the attack. radio hosts have now been four murdered since the start of the year.

a u.n. panel is raising g alarm over reports of ongoing mass atrorocities in south sudan. experts say oil companies in the resourcece-rich region could be complicit in war crimes. >> there are thousands of civilians who have been forcibly displaced following the scorched-earth policy in which the party to a conflict are attacking the villages, tortured and homes, killing siblings and raping women a and girls. if you are involved in oil instruction in the area and asked d to assist one e side ore other, you could be accused of complicity in war crumbs. amy: three foreign oil companies operate in the region -- the chinese national petroleum company, petronas of malaysia and the indianan oil and natural gas corporation. the companies own joint projects with state-owned nile petroleum corporation, known as nilepet. in egypt, sources have confirmed nine men were executed wednesday over the 2015 car bomb killing of chief prosecutor hisham barakat. the men testified to being

secretly detained and tortured to coerce them into confessing. six others were executed earlier this month over the 2013 killing of a police officer and the 2014 killing of a judge's son. egypt hahas sentenced hundreds f people to death since president abdel fattah el-sisi came to power following the 2013 coup. human rights groups have condemned the executions. in a statement, amnesty international said -- "egyptian authorities must urgently halt this bloody execution spree which has seen them repeatedly putting people to death after grossly unfair trials in recent weeks." in syria, coalition forces evacuated hundreds of civilians from what is said to be the last isis-held enclave in the region. the u.s.-backed syrian democratic forces say they will storm the eastern town of baghouz once all civilians have left. president trump has personally rejejected an alabama's woman request to return to the united states after she left the

country inin 2015 to join isis fighters in syria. secretary of state mike pompeo said wednesday 24-year-old hoda muthana is not a u.s. citizen but her attorneys insist that she does hold u.s. citizenship and was born in hackensack, new jersey. she is now in a refugee camp in syria with her 18-month-old son. in west virginia, teachers are heading back to the classroom today after a successful two-day strike which resulted in the demise of an education reform bill that sought to legalize charter schools. meanwhile in oakland, california, teachers are set to launch their strike today as they demand fair wages, smaller class sizes, and more resources for their students. teachers are drawing attention to the soaring cost of living in the bay area, while public school salaries remain stagnant schools suffer from budget cuts. house democrats are planning to introduce a resolution friday to block president trump's national emergency declaration to

construct a u.s.-mexico border wall. in the senate, republican susan collins of maine said on wednesday she would support a resolution to halt the emergency declaration. at least four senators from the republican caucus would have to join with all 47 democratic caucus senators to achieve a majority in the senate that could pass such a measure. president trump ally and former adviser roger stone is heading back to court today after he posted an instagram photo on monday depicting federal judge amy berman jackson with crosshairs next to her head. the text in the now-deleted post read -- "through legal trickery deep state hitman robert mueller has guaranteed that my upcoming show trial is before judge amy berman jackson, an obama appointed judge who dismissed the benghazi charges against hillary clinton and incarcerated paul manafort prior to his conviction for any crime.

#fixisin. help me fight for my life at @stonedefensefund.com." stone was indicted last month as part of special counsel robert mueller's investigation. he pleaded not guilty to lying to congress, witness tampering, and obstruction. former trump attorney and fixer michael cohen has agreed to testify about his work for donald trump before congress next wednesday in an open hearing. the news came as cohen's upcoming prison term was pushed back by two months after he requested time to recover from a surgical procedure. cohen was sentenced to three years for tax evasion, bank fraud, campaign finance violations, and lying to congress after admitting he broke federal campaign finance laws by paying hush money to two women during the 2016 presidential campaign. he will begin his sentence in may. cnn reported wednesday special counsel robert mueller may be wrapping up his probe and could release his report to attorney

general william barr as soon as next week. trump told reporters he would leave it up to barr to decide whether to make the special counsel's report available to the public. democratic lawmakers have repeatedly called for the open release of the report. last month bipartisan bill was , a introduced in an effort to make mueller's findings open to all. former new york congressmember joe crowley has joinined the corporatate lobbying firm squiue patton boggs the 10-term congressmember was defeated in a stunning upset in last year's midterm primary by then-28 year-old alexandria ocasio-cortez. the lobbying firm represents fossil fuel interests, the arms inindustry, , and a private prin company, among others. some of its clients include gulf energy alliance which promotes oil and gas drilling, and the conservative koch-backed policy and taxation group. former republican congressmember bill shuster is also joining the

firm. independent senator bernie sanders raised nearly $6 million in the first 24 hours after launching his 202020 presidentil bid, crushing the fufundraising efforts of hisis fellow 2020 hopefulsls. california senator kamala harris was the second, receiving $1.5 million in the 24 hours after her announcement. sanders campaign said the average donation was $27, the same as during his 2016 run. in chicago, actor jussie smollett has been arrested and charged with felony disorderly conduct for filing a false police report. smollett is said to have faked an attack that sparked widespread outrage last month. the actor, a star on fox's hit tv show "empire," told police he was violently attacked on the street in an apparent hate crime. smollett, who is african-american and gay, said the attackers shouted homophobic and racist slurs, as well as

"this is maga country" and placed a rope around his neck. police say smollett paid two brothers who were personal , acquaintances, to carry out a staged attack. the chicago police department sites records from a hardware store where the brothers purchased the rope and surveillance video of them picking up other supplies. earlier this week, local media reported the attack was planned after a racist letter addressed to smollett and sent to the empire studio did not receive much attention. the letter contained a white powder which was later determined to be aspirin. the fbi is now reportedly investigating the letter. jussie smollett has rejected the recent reports and maintains he gave a truthful account of the event. anandn austin, , texas, immigrat rights activivist patricia

okoumomou, who made national headlinenes last yeaafter r she scaled thehe statue of l liberto protest family separations, climbed atop a southwest key builngng wedsdsday to prototest the company, which operates detention centers for migrant childrenen. earlier in the week, the group "tornillo: the occupation" led a series of actions protesting immigration policies and the treatment of migrant children in the texas border town of el paso. activists from the group staged what they called an intervention at the border patrol museum and brought cards with messages of support to migrants locked up at the southwest key detention center in el paso. this is organizer juan ortiz speaking at the border patrol museum action. >> the united states porter change ththrough economic violence, they become humanitarian refugees. don't let them tell you that it

is violence people that aree coming. do not let them tell you that they are enacting violence. it is completely the other way around will stop young children dying under their custody. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. nermeen: and i'm nermeen shaikh. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. in a major victory for civil liberties advocates, the supreme court has unanimously ruled to limit the practice of civil asset forfeiture -- a controversial practice wherere police seize proroperty that belongs to people suspected of crimes, even if they are never convicted. on wednesday, the court ruled the eighth amendment protects people from state and local authorities imposing onerous fines, fees, and forfeitures to generate money. the case centered on an indiana man, tyson timbs, who had sold drugs and was sentenced to prison. timbs didn't contest his

sentence, but he did object to police seizing his land rover. vehicle was worth $42,000, more than four times the $10,000 maximum fine timbs could receive for his drug conviction under ststate law. amy: on wednesday, the supreme court unanimously ruled in tyson timbs' favor. writing on behalf of the eight justices, ruth bader ginsburg said -- "the historical and logical case for concluding that the 14th amendment incorporates the excessive fines clause is overwhelming." the american civil liberties union has called civil asset forfeiture a violation of due process that disproportionately targets communities of color. after wednesday's ruling, the aclu tweeted -- "this will help stop state and local authorities from using people in the justice system as their piggy banks." for more, we go to washington, d.c., where we're joined by lisa foster, co-director of fines and fees justitice center. her group along with others,

, filed an amicus brief in the supreme court case. lisa foster is a retired judge and served in the justice againstnt to lead excessive fines and fees. lisa foster, welcome to democracy now! why do you lay out the significance of this unanimous decision of the supreme court. >> good morning. it is a pleasure to be here. the supreme court forcefully told state and local governments the excessive fines clause fees, andnes, forfeitures. they said it, as you pointed out, unanimously. that is critically important. observer casual of firm knows, it is rare for the court to be unanimous. agreed of the justices not just that the excessive fines clause applies to state and local government, but also with the analysis that justice

ginsburg provided. and there are a couple of points that are critical in her analysis. first, of course, she decided it applies to state and local governments. she was goingen through her opinion, she provided a historical analysis of the excessive fines clause. and concluded by explaining while the cause is still important today. it she gave two examples. one is because the government could impose excessive fines to punish people it does not like war behaviors it does not like a do that excessively. but second, and i think most importantly, she talked about the fact that state and local governments today are using fines, fees, and forfeitures to raise revenue. and she found that to be a reason to continue to enforce the eighth amendment prohibition

against excessive fines. for that proposition, she cited the late justice scalia who warned about government raising revenue through the justice system, and i am proud to say, she's out of the amicus brief and othersganization filed in the case. and we explain in that brief what is happening today in state and local government, and why that is harming so manyny americans, millions of americans, particularly low-income americans and americans of color. nermeen: in her opinion, ruth bader ginsburg noted the troubling role of excessive fines in america's history. she wrote -- "following the civil war, southern states enacted black codes to subjugate slaves and maintain the prewar racial hierarchy. among these laws' provisions were draconian fines for violating broad proscriptions on

'vagrancy' and other dubious offenses." lisa foster, could you talk about the history of this? >> certainly. and that history, but justice ginsburg and justice thomas and his concurring opinion, both wrote at length aboutut the history of the excxcessive fines clause which goes back to the vevendor card a. but their emphasis on the fact that after the civil war, excessive fines were used by re-isrn states really to like black people. they passed all caps a provisions in opposed very steep fines on people who violated those laws. and when thehey could n not pay those fines, then literally sold people to private companies for labor. it was convict labor. and that was a notorious practice throughout the south

and even in some no -- northern states. during reconstruction and after. today, important because fines, fees, and forfeitures disproportionately affect black people and other communities of color in the united states. and by citing that history, the supreme court says to the states, we understand what is happening and that is a reason to be particularly concerned about the a position of these excessive fines. nermeen: lesa, could you explain in what caseses it is consideded justified for local and state uthoritieies to impose fines? >> almost every case. a find as a monetary center for the violation of a law. and for many offenses, fines are the only sanctions. for example, if you get a speeding ticket, it is against

the law. no one is going to city to jail -- or at least they shouldn't -- for speeding. fines are imposed in traffic and post in civil code violations, municipal code violations, and also the principle way that we sentence people and misdemeanors. and often today, in felonies. what has happened over the last 30 years, the amount of those fines has dramatically increased and so have the fees that go with those fines. and fees are not supposed to be a sanction, but they are imposed by state and local government to pay for the cost of the justice system and other government services. to 2015.nt to go back more than a dozen st. louis area residentnts filed a class lawsut against ferguson and another suburb, jennings. they accused local officials of

creating a "modern debtors' prison scheme," that targets african americans with arrests and fines and then locks them up when they can't pay. democracy now! spoke to allison nelson, one of the plaintiffs in the class-action lawsuits. >> were multiple occasions where i was incarcerated by jennings and ferguson, but just my recent one, it was thanksgiving. it was three days before thanksgiving i was incarcerated in a jennings jail cell. i had been there for three days. and once i left jennings, well, they negotiated with my mother over the phone to reduce my bond from $1000 to $100, and once they did that, then i was then transferred to ferguson jail cell thanks giving morning around 3:00 a.m. i sat there for a few hours. once they had a shift change in the other correctional officer came in -- i guess it was in a

goodman thanksgiving morning because he came in, called out a list of names and he was just was, ok at the time my bond $700 and he was like, oh, if you can come up with $100, you can go home. given free phone calls at all. i had to call my mother on the collect phone. when you're supposed to speak your name, i had to yell through the phone that they are given the $100 bond, come get me. amy: what were you charged with? >> i was charged with -- what was i charged with? driving while suspended. while suspended. that is allison nelson, one of the plaintiffs in the class-action lawsuit speaking to democracy now! in 2015. lisa foster, if you could talk about the 2016 letter you wrote --this whole issue and also this is while you were at the jujustice department. jeffll as the action

sessions took when he became attorney general. >> allison's store is precisely why we wrote the letter we did. fergusont uprising and and after michael brown was killed, the justice department's civil righghts division investigator the ferguson police department. and what they y found was appalling. ferguson was using the justice system to raise revenue, 23% of the city's revenue came from fines and fees imposed by the municipal court and ferguson. officials were telling their police officers to raise revenue, go out and ticket people, which the police department did largely in the community's african-american neighborhoods. soso they were imposing multiple tickets. you would be stopped for a traffic event and often four or five different tickets issued.

people were cicited for high grs and weeds growing on their front lawn. if they could not pay immediately and ferguson, they were sent to jail, just like n was. that is unconstitutional. the supreme court back in 1983 said you cannot punish someone simply because they cannot afford to pay a fine. you have to punish them only because i'm what they did was willful. they could afford to pay it and they chose not to. but that is not what was happening in ferguson. ferguson residents were being charged these excessive fines. they could not pay them and they were sent to jail. that is debtors prison. so the department brought together people from all over the country -- judges, lawyersors, activists, -- and try to determine what it was the department could do to try to reform fines and fees in

the united states. one of the things the people asked of the department, particularly judges and state legislators, was for guidance. some explanation of the law that applied to the issues of fines and fees. the thengether with acting director of our civil rights division, we wrote a letter. and we set out some black letter law, basic constitutional principles and federal legal principles, that are supposed to inform the ways that fines and fees are imposed and enforced. and we sent that letter to every state chief justice anand every ststate courtt i i -- administr. i have to say you was well received. many supreme court justices were chief justices sent the letter out to their entire bench, every judge in the state. in arizona, the chief posted the letter online.

and judges all over the country realized that what they had been doing was unconstitutional. now fast-forward to the new and attorneyn general jeff sessions, fairly early on in the administration, announced that he was retracting that letter, together with pieces of guidance that the obama administration had issued. i don't think it had the effect he intended because many, many states, supreme court, particularly the chief justices, reinforced to their judges that despite the actions of the attorney general, that their colleague letter still applied. nermeen: do you expect the new attorney general william barr to address the issue differently? >> no. i don't think the department sees its role as advising the

states were working with the these to change practices. amy: i want to go back to 2016 when we spoke to a woman named janice. she is a native of little rock, arkansas, who said she wrote a check for $1.07 for a loaf of bread that bounced. the debt ballooned after fees and fines to nearly $400. janice spoke to democracy y now! on the condition of anonymity fromom fear of arrest. i want to go to that clip. >> on several occasions, i have been arrested by sherwood police bounced checks, insufficient funds checks will stop i have even been arrested on my job, to different jobs, as a matterer of fact. hospitals.nt totaled -- ie would say less than $1000. they are small checks.

was a bad manager. i did not keep a good register. so therefore, i had bounced checks. $20, $100 may have been the highest number of checks that i wrote. but i have had accumulated fees up to thousands of dollars in , roughly less than $1000 worth of checks. amy: that was janice and little rock, arkansas, speaking to us a few years ago. what happens now with people like janice and everyone else as a result of this? you can comment on this outside of this particular decision, a unanimous supreme court decision across the political spectrum, what this means in this day and age, lisa foster. >> what it means i is that advocates around the country now

to end o ofool to use the impositionon of fees and excessive fines anand forfeiturs and the justice system. they can go to state and local governments and talk about the supreme court opinion and if necessary, they can sue state and local governments who impose excessive fines, fees, and forfeitures. the stories -- allison's and janice's store is commercially, are the stories of millions of peoplele. for example, in california, the fine for running a red light, you raise that yellow light and lost. the fine is s $100. that is s what the legislature for runningsanction the red light. but that is not what you owe the state of california. if you're convicted of running a red like, you owe $490 because the california legislature attaches an additional $390 of

fees to that $100 fine. the average american does not have $400 in the bank for an emergency, so how are they supposed to come up with $490 to pay to the state? a lowuthfully, if you are income person, you cannot do that -- at least, not right away. and what happens around the country if you cannot immediately afford to pay your fines and fees is exactly what happened to allison and janice. and in 43s go up states, your driver's license is suspended. it is cut or to suspend some of these drivers license because they did not. that -- it is counterproductive to suspend someone's drivers license because they did not a because you take away their means of running a living to pay back the debt. evenny americans drive

while the license is suspended because they have to go to work, have to get their kids to school, have to get a family member to the doctor, and if they are stopped by law enforcement for driving on a suspended license, it is a misdemeanor. now they have a criminal record. or fines and fees are imposed. we created an endless cycle of punishment of poverty. that is happening all over the country today. and this case gives advocates a new tool to fight those practices. in the lisa foster, thank you for being with us co-director of , fines and fees justice center. her organization, along with others, filed an amicus brief in the supreme court case timbs v. indiana. she is a retired judge and the former director of the office for access to justice at the u.s. department of justice. this is democracy now! when we come back, you will hear the analogy made a president trump's, well, i meant is

considering to head of a committee to look at whether climate change effects national security. we will speak with the author of a new book "the uninhabitable earth: life after warming." stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. nermeen: we spend the rest of the hourur on the climate crcris fofollowing rereports that the e house is organizing a new committee to examine whether climate change poses a threat to national security. efforts to form the panel -- named the presidential committee on climate security -- are being led by princeton university professor emeritus and trump science advisor william happer, physicist and known climate change denier. observers say his selection indicates the trump administration wants to undermine findings within the national security community that climate change poses a severe threat to human safety. william happer is a national security council senior director who has long claimed increasing the amount of carbon oxide in the e atmosphere w will a actuay bebenefit humansns. in a 2017 interview published in the guardian, happer said --

"there's a whole area of climate so-called science that is really more like a cult. it's like hare krishna or something like that. they're glassy-eyed and they chant." happer also has served on the board ofof the co2 coaoalition, which cicites as its m mission educating policy leaders and the public about "the important contribution made by carbon dioxide and fossil fuels." he has also compared the fight against climate change to the holocaust. this is happer speaking on cnbc with andrew ross sorkin in 2014. >> you made a comment back in 2000 and comparing climate change to the holocaust was to my question is, are you suggesting when you made that comment that climatologists and climate scientist are the equivalent of hitler and nazis? a you know, i get called denier and anyone who objects to all of the hype gets called a

denier. that is supposed to make me a holocaust denier. i'm getting tired of that. thecomment i made was demonization of carbon dioxide is just like the demonization of the poor jews underhitler. carbon dioxide is actually a benefit to the world and so were the jews. amy: that is william happer, defending his statement that "the demonization of carbon dioxide is just like the demonization of the poor jews h underitler." funding --ports prohibiting federally-funded scientists from communicating their findings to the public. news that he might lead trump's new climate committee comes despite a widespread consensus abouout the masse e threat clile change poses to humamanity. last year, government findings collected by 13 federal agencies reported that climate change

poses an extreme threat to american infraststructure, econy and public health. we turn now to journalist david wallace wells, who is sounding the alarm about the climate crisis and the need for swift and radical action to save the planet from unimaginable destruction. his new book reports that global warming is far worse than reports of even the worst case scenarios. the book is called "the uninhabitable earth: life after warming." the book offers the dire warning that the planet is on course to more than four degrees celsius of warming by 2100. this means "whole regions of africa and australia and the united states, parts of south america north of patagonia, and asia south of siberia would be rendered uninhabitable by direct heat, desertification, and flooding." we're joined now by the book's author. david wallace wells is deputy editor and climate columnist for new york magazine. it is so great to have you with us. so start off by responding to

dr. happer and also the reason president trump is setting up the government-- has said over and over again, even a trump administration government, but climate change is a national security threat, one of the worst. so why this committee? >> i think you put your finger on it, they want to discredit those findings. it seems like they're looking for people, not just to hold their same ideology, but they're going to irritate the liberals who are watching this very closely. i don't see what else you would pick someone like this to be part of this committee. the holocaust analogy is especially interesting because we are already today killing 9 million people a year globally with small particular pollution. it happens because we are burning fossil fuels. 9 million people every year.

that is momore than dieded in te hoholocaust. ifif we get to t two degrerees warming,g, predictions are we wl have killeled 150 billioion peoe in the small particulate pollution. amy: how do you know? so just in t that gap we would be killed and 150 million people, the crippling of 25 holocausts. two degrees is functionally ouor best case scenario which was absolulute besest case scenanars suffering the scale of 25 holocausts, which p puts this guy's comments about this -- visiting context. amy: comparing carbon dioxide to jews. >> it is interesting additionally because the department of events and security state have been really interesting source of far-reaching projections about climate change within the u.s. for a long time. they are among more conservative part of the federal government, and yet ththey are very hard

minded and realistic and concern with the fate of american power in the world. they have been very clear and the projections for what is possible, not just the flooding of navy bases and other military bases -- which is a big part of it -- but how totally the global map will be destabilized by the forces of warming. in many parts of the world, whole societies could be torn asunder, pushed into civil war. nations that have been living uncomfortably next each other, could be pushed into war. it is believed much of the unrest in the middle east is because of glolobal warming. thisis is part of the world whee warming has hit first and the hardest. people are studying the relationships between conflict and warming suggest for every have to group warming, we will 20% increase0% and in conflict. if we get to four degrees of warming by the end of the century -- which is what the u.n. things were we will be -- we will have twice as much war

or more by the end of the century. nermeen: the u.s. military, not only of course has warned of this being a national -- climate being a national security threat, but also talked about climate change as a threat multiplier. what does that mean? change is an all-encompassing threat that touches every aspect of life on the planet will s stop many of ththose impacts will bee damagi, so there's a cost to economic growth. economists believe if we do not change course on climate, we will have a gdp at least 20% smaller. there's the cost of public health, the impact of drought and agricultural yields. if we get to four degrees by the end of the century, we might haveve granules that are h halfs bountiful as who would without them. all of these things impose a burden on any society.

some societies are wealthy enough and adaptable enough to endure and find other ways to feed their people and take care of their sick, but others are not. in many of the societies will likely fall into conflict as a result of global warming. the people who studied this most closely are careful to say most wars we see are not the direct cause of warming, but warming is a factor in many conflicts. for ininstance, the syrian civil war. lebanon had a somewhat drought and they were not pushed into civil disarray, but the syrian civil war was the result of a drought and it produced a refugee crisis that has completely destabilized european politics. one million refugees came out of syria and into europe. there were more of it only one million made it. could be to the u.n., 100 or 200 or even 1000 times as big of a crisis could happen. amy: we're going to go to break and come back to this discussion

with david wallace wells, author of the book "the uninhabitable earth: life after warming." stay with us.. ♪ [music break]

amy: "snow in april" by danny vera. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. today, gretaier thunberg, the 16 euro swedish, activist, addressed european union in brussels. she has garnered little attention for carrying out a school strike against climate change in her home country of sweden. >> we need to focus every inch of our being on climate change because if we fail to do so, then all of our achievements and progress had been for nothing. and all that will remain of our political leaders legacy will be the greatest failure of human history. and they will be remembered as the greatest villains of all time because they have chosen not to listen and not to act.

if you still say we are wasting valuable lesson time, then let me remind you that our political leaders have wasted decades through denial and inacaction. and since our time is running out, we have decided to take action. we have started to clean up your mess and we will not stop until we are done. thank you. activist greta thunberg speaking in brussels as the european union today. we are joined by david wallace wells, deputy editor and climate columnist for new york magazine. his new book is titled "the uninhabitable earth: life after warming." david, could you respond to what also -- obvious league, she is a scandinavian activist and we all know in scandinavia, the response to climate change has been much

more forceful in much earlier than in the united states. you and your book, you yourself right just "i am like every other american who spent their life place it and will fully diluted about climate justic change." first, your response to her and then-way from being complacent american to writing a book called "the uninhabitable earth." >> first, i am in awe of greta. she is not alone.. all of the children who are mobilizing on the issue have an incredible moral stature that shames us grown-ups, their parents, grandparents for what we have done and are continuing to do. i think the activism she has inspired is thrilling, actually exhilarating. you see all across europe. you see it with extinction rebellion this started in the u.k. and spreading in the u.s.,

and all of the activism that has pushed the green new deal here. i think things are changing quite rapidly on the ground. the gold standard measure of public opinion is this yale study that comes up every december. the numbers are more than 70% of americans believe global warming is happening now and are concerned about it. those numbers have jumped 15% in just a few years, 8% since march. things are moving quicklyly. the question is whether our policy will move quicklyly enouh to respond. my own story is, you know, i am not an environment list. i have been an urban whole life. 1990's.teenager in the i believed that w while the promises of globalization and neoliberalism were imperfect, also believe history told a story of progress and over time the world would be getting better, more prosperous, safer, cleaeaner, more just.

those stories would be erratic for they would unfold over time. just over the last two years, really begetting and 2016 whenei started seeing much more alarming reports about climate change than i have seen before and noticed those reports were not showing up in our newspapers or television accounts of climate change, there wewere soe ququite bleak possibilities on e horizon. and so profound an application said they would really unbuild or reverse those opinions that had about a young person growing up when i did that cost to our society could be so great that we really did stop thinking of the future as containing more prosperous possibility for us and started thinking of the past perfect time. amy: talk about u.s. military, what it understands s about the threat o of global w warming to national security. absolutelybilizes everything about geopolitics. arelries between states

destabilized. it changes the calculus of where resources are valuable. it transforms shipping routes in the front lines of battle. for ininstance, ththe arctic i s melting. that means there is new territory to fight over. there is already a rivalry between u.s. and russia. china is involved. the exact nature of these dynamics is shifting with the effects of change. so russia was a country that a few years ago we thought of as a kind of second rate power. but climate change promises to benefit them in a couple of ways, in part because they benefit from the burning of fossil fuels and in part because their economy is one of the few in the world that is far enough north it will actually benefit from some additional warming.. ththe relationship of temperatue and economic growowth is complicated, but there are some countries that will benefit and most who will suffer as the result of warming. rurussia is poised to benefit. that means along with everything else we are seeing, russia to dynamicigger and more

role. the sinister of china. the way they are approaching china as he and building new isislands in that season just te are try just a lisist of foothos in a theater basically dominated by the u.s. military central or two anand on footholds -- werthr on footholds are at risk of disappearing because many of the islands will be underwater by the middle of the century. amy: but i'm in, what the u.s. military understands. this is trump's problem, why he is s setting u up this committe, because they are a strong force for understanding pulling of the great national security threat of the 21st century and understanding the effects of, for example, climate migration -- the pressures people will feel leaving their countries to go to others to save themselves. trump has to discredit all of this if he wants to succeed in denying climate change. discredit his entire government. >> personally, i think trump is

less of a denier than someone who seen as an opportunity in slow walking action on climate. i don't think he really cares whether it is real, i just think he sees in advantage and american and action -- inaction. interesting new news from science, from economic research in particular is that while his view had been a kind of conventional picture of whether we should act on climate or not, that is to say 10 years ago economist would have said it was quite costly and would involve for going real economic growth, all of the recent research suggests faster action will be better for us economically. we could save $26 trillion in the global economy by 2030, which is a very fast return if we do governess quickly. i don't think that is percolated yet into our policy makers, specially like donald trump.

once the logic is clear that faster action n is better r fore economy, i think we may see a sea change in n our public poli. we will see. nermeen: one thing that is very powerful about your book is we are used to thinking of climate change as a series of cataclysmic events -- floods, hurricanes, etc. . -- but you point out that climate change is alalso a prproblem of duration. in other words, it is not only very fast, it is also veryong. and the longer it goes on, itsts key militant affects results and even more catastrophic events -- ina late of affectcts results eveven more catastrophicic even. you write, you might hope to's of the reverse climate change, but you can't. it will outrun all of us. >> that is especially true with regarding the melting of ice. if we pass the tipping points of ice monday, those processes will take place over centuries and maybe even millennia, but the

skill of the impacts they will bring our enormous. we could see at least 100 feet of sea level rise, possibly as much as 250 feet. that wou cpletely transfor the p of theorldld. is alsomportanto derstandlimate cnge is not a nary sysm, not auestion of whether it has happened or not. every tick upward makes the impacts wars and every tick upwardrd we avoid will make them better. 2.5 degrees wiwill be consideray worse off than two degrees, three degrees worse than 2.5 degrees. while the scale of some o of the horrrrors is s a must paralyzing horror show, it is also a reminder of how much power we have and will always have over the climate. if we get to four degrees, it will be because of action we take now. but that means we can avoid getting there if we take action quickly. amy: and the different responsibilities of people in different countries, like the united states versus the global

south? >> the u.s. has the lion share of historical emissions. we should be a true moral leader. at the moment, china is the biggest driver of emissions and going forward i think will be the main driver of the future climate of the planet. american and eu missions are falling, although not fast enough, and chinese emissions are growing. i think the scarier, uglier moral oculus has to do with the impacts, which is to say that it is the global south being hit the hardest. that is already the case, but it will certainly be the case in the decades ahead. you see projections that many of the biggest cities in india and the middle east will be lethahay hot in summer as soon as 2050, which means you won't be able to go outside without incurring some risk of heat stroke. riskusly, bangladesh is at of flooding about half of its landmass. it is especially grotesque new think those two countries were for so long the colonies of britain who invented and built an empire off fossil fuel.

nermeen: you point out it is not just a question of consumption in the u.s., for example, it is also the sheer waste. you writite -- not "two thirds f american energy is wasted and americans waste one quarter of their food." you would think this is a fairly easy problem to resolve. >>, change in a certain way is an easy problem to resolve if we just had focus and enough muscle behind it. everywhere you look, there are solutions like that. there's a lot of talk now about lifestyle changes -- choices and diet as it relates to climate change. i feel all of the talk is a distraction. but there is research that shows if you feed cattle seaweed, or methane emissions fall by as much as 95% or 99%. which means if we legislated that all cattle farmers for them seaweed, we could be beef

guiltlessly. there are really those kinds of solutions almost everywhere you look. there are some sectors that are harder to do carbon as, for instance, air travel. some sectors of industry. but there are some interesting technological movements on those fronts,s, too. amy: the reason you chose your title "the uninhabitable earth: life after warming." and the conceivable fact that we brought it interview at all is a huge indictment of everything we've done over the last few decades. amy: david wallace wells, thank you for being with us deputy , editor and climate columnist for new york magazine. his new book is s titled "the uninhabitable earth: life after warming." that does it for our show. we have a job opening, accepting applications for a full-time one year paid news production fellowship. details at democracynow.org.

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