02/21/19 02/21/19 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from pacifica, this is democracy now! >> the demonization of carbon dioxide is just like the demonization of the poor jews under hitler. carbon dioxide is a benefit to the world and so were the jews. trump isident considing naming a prominent climate change denier to head a new white house panel looking at the national security implications of global warming. the official, william happer, has long claimed increasing the

amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere will actually benefit humans. we will speak to david wallace wells, author of the new book he uninhabitable earthlife after warming." it is a lot worsehan people think because scientists and journalists he not told the full story we used to be told it was coming centuries down the road and it is right in the present and we're doing that damage ourselves in real time. we used to be told it was an issue of sea level rise and it .s an all-encompassing threat there's really no life on planet earth that will not be affected by it in the coming cenries. amy: but first, criminal justice advocates score a victory as the supreme court limits the ability of states to seize pperty from -- property and impose excessive use of people accused of crimes. the case was filed by main

indiana after his $42,000 land rover was seized. we will speak with a former judge and justice department official who now campaigns against excessive fines. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. in maryland, an active duty coast guard lieutenant will appear in court today after being arrested last friday after federal investigators uncoved a domestic terror plot to kill high profile liberal figures including democratic lawmakers, media personalities, and judges. 49-year-old christopher paul hasson, a self-described white nationalist, reportedly had a stockpile of 15 guns and more than 1000 round of ammunition. his hit list included house speaker nancy pelosi, civil

rights pioneer angela davis, freshman congress members alexandrdria ocasisio-cortez and ilhan omar, msmsnbc host chris hayes, and democratic presidential hopefuls senators kirsten gillibrand, elizabeth warren, cory booker, and kamala harris, among others. hasson was reportedly inspired by the far-right norwegian terrorist anders breivik, who in 2011 killed 77 people in a bomb attack and a mass shooting. in a draft email obtained by prosecutors, hasson wrote -- "i am dreaeaming of a way to kil almost every last person on the earth." court documents also revealed he wanted to "establish a white homeland." the white house is organizing a new committee to examine whether climate change poses a threat to national security. in trump's government

says it does. trump is considering naming princeton university physicist and trump science advisor william happer to head the effort. he is a known climate change denier. he has accused the national oceanographic and atmospheric administration of manipulating climate data and compared climate science to the holocaust. this is . happer and a 2014 interview. >> the demonization of carbon dioxide is just like the demonization of the poor jews under hitler. carbon dioxide is a benefit to the world and so worthyhy jews. amy: we'll have re on is story later in the broadcast. in a major victory f for civil liberties advocates, the supreme court unanimously ruled to limit the practice of civil asset forfeiture, a controversial practice where police seize property that belongs to people suspected of crimes, even if they are never convicted.

on wednesday, the court ruled the eighth amendment protects people from state and local authorities imposing onerous fines, fees, and forfeitures to generate money. the case centered on indiana man tyson timbs, who had sold drugs and was sentenced to prison. timbs didn't contest his sentence but objected to police seizing his land rover, which was worth four times the maximum fine he could receive from his drug conviction. after the unanimous ruling in timbs' favor, justice ruth bader ginsburg delivered the court's opinion, saying -- "the historical and logical case for concluding that the 14th amendment incorporates the excessive fines clause is overwhming." we'll have more on the significce of this historic ruling after headlines. authorities in bangladesh say an estimated 80 people have died in a massive fire that burned down several building in a poor,

centuries-old neighborhood in the capital dhaka. the death toll is expected to rise as more bodies are uncovered. the fire started on the ground floor of a chemical warehouse for seading to neighboring structures. residents say they had raised safety concerns over the warehouse, but were igred by authorities. in mexico, two radio journalists have been murdered in the past. -- in the past wee on wednesday, environmental activist and community radio producer samir flores soberanes was killed in the state of morelos shortly before a rerendum on a thermal-electric plant and pipeline project he had oppose on saturday, rad announcer reynaldo lopezas fatally attacked by armed gunman in sonora. another reporter, carlos cota was with lopez, but survived the attack. radio hosts have now been four murdered since the starof the year.

a u.n. panel is raising alarm over reports of ongoing mass atrocities in south sudan. experts say oil companies in the resource-rich region could be complicit in war crimes. >> there are thousands of civilians who have been forcibly displaced following the scorched-earth policy in which e party to a conflict are atcking the villages, tortured and homes, killing siblings and raping women and girls. if you are involved in oil instruction in the area and asked to assist one side or the other, you could be accused of complicity in war crumbs. amy: three foreign oil companies operate in the region -- the chinese national petroleum company, petronas of malaysia and the indian oil and natural gas corporation. the companies own joint projects with state-owned nile petroleuem corporation, known a as nilepet. in egypt, sources have confirmed nine men were executed wednesday over the 2015 car bomb killing of chief prosecutor hisham barakat. the men testified to being

secretly detained and tortured to coerce them into confessing. six others were executed earlier this month over the 2013 killing of a police officer and the 2014 killing of a judge's son. egypt has sentenced hundreds of people to death since president abdel fattah el-sisi came to power following the 2013 coup. human rights groups have condemned the executions. in a statement, amnesty international said -- "egyptian authorities must urgently halt this bloody execution spree which has seen them repeatedly putting people to death after grossly unfair trials in recent weeks." in syria, coalition forces evacuated hundreds of civilian from what is said to be the last isis-held enclave in the region. the u.s.-backed syrian democratic forces say they will storm the eastern town of baghouz once all civilians have left. president trump has personally rejected an alabama's woman request to return to the united states after she left the

country in 2015 to join isis fighters in syria. secretary of state mike pompeo said wednesday 24-year-old hoda muthana is not a u.s. citizen but her attorneys insist that she does hold u.s. citizenship and was born in hackensack, new jersey. she is now in a refugee camp in syria with her 18-month-old son. in west virginia, teachers are heading back to the classroom today after a successful two-day strike which resulted in the demise of an education reform bill that sought to legalize charter schools. meanwhile in oakland, california, teachers are set to launch their strike today as they demand fair wages, smaller class sizes, and more resources for their students. teachers are drawing attention to the soaring cost of living in the bay area, while public school salaries remain stagnant schools suffer from budget cuts. house democrats are planning to introduce a resolution friday to block president trump's national emergency declaration to

construct a u.s.-mexico border wall. in the senate, republican susan collins of maine said on dnesday she would support a resolution to halt the emergency declaration. at least four senators from the republican caucuwould have to join with all 47 democratic caucus senators to achieve a majority in the senate that could pass such a measure. president trump ally and former adviser roger stone is heading back to court today after he posted an instagram photo on monday depicting federal judge amy berman jackson with crosshairs next to her head. the text in the now-deleted post read -- "through legal trickery deep state hitman robert mueller has guaranteed that my upcoming show trial is before judge amy berman jackson, an obama appointed judge who dismissed the benghazi charges against hillary clinton and incarcerated paul manafort prior to his conviction for any crime.

#fixisin. help me fight for my life at @stonedefensefund.com." stone was indicted last month as part of special counsel robert mueller's investigation. he pleaded not guilty to lying to congress,itness tampering, and obstruction. former trump attorney and fixer michael cohen has agreed to testify about his work for donald trump before congress next wednesday in an open hearing. the news came as cohen's upcoming prison term was pushed back by two months after he requested time to recover from a surgical procedure. cohen was sentenced to three years for tax evasion, bank fraud, campaign finance violations, and lying to congressfter admitting he broke federal campaign finance laws by paying hush moneto two women during the 2016 presidential campaign. he will begin his sentence in may. cnn reported w wednesday special counsel robert mueller may be wrapping up his probe and could release his report to attorney

general william barr as soon as next week. trump told reporters he would leave it up to barr to decide whether to make the special counsel's report available to the public. democratic lawmakers have repeatedly called for the open release of the report. last month bipartisan bill w , a introduduced in an effort to make mueller's findings open to all. former new york congressmember joe crowley has joined the corporate lobbying firm squire patton boggs. the 10-term congressmember was defeated in a stunning ups in last year's midterm primary by then-28 year-old alexandria ocasio-cortez. the lobbying firm represents fossil fuel interests, the arms industry, and a private prison company, among others. some of its clients include gulf energy alliance which promotes oil and gas drilling, and the conservative koch-backed policy and taxation group. former republican congressmember bill shuster is also joining the

firm. independent senator bernie sanderers raised nearly $6 milln in the first 24 hours after launching his 2020 presidential bid, crushing the fundraising efforts of his fellow 20 hopefuls. california senator kamala hars was t second, receiving $1.5 million in the 24 hours after her announcement. sanders campaign said the average donation was $27, the same as during his 2016 run. in chicago, actor jussie smollett has been arrested and charged with felony disorderly conduct for filing a false police report. smollett is said to have faked an attack that sparked widespread outrage last month. the actor, a star on fox's hit tv show "empire," told police he was violently attacked on the street in an apparent hate crime. smollett, , who is african-american and gay, said the attackers shouted homophobic and racist slurs, as well as

"this is maga country" and placed a rope around his neck. police say smollett paid two brothers who were persononal , acquaintances, to carry out a staged attack. the chicago police department sites records from a hardware store where the brothers purchased the rope and surveillance video of them cking up other supplies. earlier this week, local mededia reported the attack was planned after a racist letter addressed to smollett and sent to th empire studio did not receive much attention. the letter contained a white powder which was later termined to be aspirin. the fbi now reportedly investigating the letter. jussie smollett has rejected the recent reports and maintains he gave a truthful account of the event. and in austin, texas, immigrant

rights activist patricia okoumou, who made national headlines last year after she scaled the statue of liberty to protest family separations, climbed atop a southwest key building wedsday to protest the company, which operates detention centers for migrant children. earlier in the week, the group "tornillo: the occupation" led a series of actions protesting immigration policies and the treatment of migrant children in the texas border town of el paso. activists from the group staged what they called an intervention at the border patrol museum and brought cards with messages of support to migrants locked up at the southwest key detention center in el paso. this is organizer juan ortiz speaking at the border patrol museum action. >> the united states porter change throughe economic violence, they become humanitarian refugees. don't let them tell you that it

is violence people that are coming. do not let them tell you that they are enacting violence. it is completely the other way around will stop young children dying under their custody. and those are some of the headnes. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace rert. i'm amy goodman. nermeen: and i'm nermeen shaikh welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. in a major victory for civil liberties advocates, the supreme court has unanimously ruled to limit the practice of civil asset forfeiture -- a controversial practice where police seize property that belongs to people suspected of crimes, even if they are never convicted. on wednesday, the court ruled the eighth amendment protects people from state and local authorities imposing onerous fines, fees, and forfeitures to generate money. the case centered on an indiana man, tyson timbs, who had sold drugs and was sentenced to prison. timbs didn't contest his

sentence, but he did object to police seizing his land rover. vehicle was worth $42,000, more than four times the $10,000 maximum fine timbs could receive for his drug conviction under state law. amy: on wednesday, the supreme court unanimously ruled in tyson timbs' favor. writing on behalf of the eight justices, ruth bader ginsburg said -- "the historical and logical case for concluding that the 14th amendment incorpates the excessive fines clause is overwhelng." the american civil l liberties union has called civil asset forfeiture a violation of due process that disproportionately targets communities of color. after wednesday's ruling, the aclu tweeted -- "this will help stop state and local authorities from using people in the justice system as their piggy banks." for more, we go to washington, d.c., where we're joined by lisa foster, co-director of fines and fees justice center. her group along with others,

, filed an amicus brief in the supreme court case. lisa foster is a retired judge and served in the justice againstnt to lead excessive fines and fees. lisa foster, welcome to democracy now! why do you lay out the significance of this unanimous decision of the supreme court. >> good morning. it is a pleasure to be here. the supreme court forcefully told state and local governments the excessive fines clause fees, andnes, forfeitures. they said it, as you pointed out, unanimously. that is critically important. observer casual of firm knows, it is rare for the court to be unanimous. agreed of the justices not just that the excessive fines clause applies to state and local government, but also with the analysis th justice

ginsburg provided. and there are a couple of points at are critical in her analysis. first, of course, she decided it applies to state and local governments. she was goingen through her opinion, she provided a historical analysis of the excessive fines clause. and concluded by explaining while the cause is still important tod. it she gave two examples. one is because the government could impose excessive fines to punish people it does not like war behaviors it ds not like a do that excessively. but second, and i think most importantly, she talked about the fact that state and local governments today are using fines, fees, and forfefeitures o raise revenue. and she found that to be a reason to continue to enforce the eighth amendment prohibition

against excessive fines. for that proposition, she cited the late justice scalia who rned about government raising revenue throh the justice system, and i am proud to say, she's out of the amicus brief and othersganization filed in thehe case. and we explain in that brief what is happening today in state and local government, and why that is harming so o many americans, millions of americans, particularly low-income aricans and americans of col. nermeen: in her opinion,uth bader ginsburg noted the troubling role of excessive fines in america's history. she wrote -- "following the civil war, southern states enacted blac codes to subjugate slaves and maintain the prewar racial hierarchy. among these laws' provisions were draconian fines for violating broad proscriptions on

'vagrancy' and other dubious offenses." lisa foster, could you talk about the historof this? >> certainly. and that history, but justice ginsburg and justice thomas and his concurrrring opinion, bototh wrote e at length about the history of the excessive fines clause which goes back to the vendor card a. but their emphasasis on the fa that after the civil war, excessive fines were used by re-isrn states really to like bla people. they passed all caps a provisions in opposed very steep fines people who violated those laws. and when they uldot pay those fines, then literally sold people to private companies for labor. it was convi labor. and that was a notorious practice throughout the south

and even in some no -- northern states. during reconstruction and after. today, important because fines, fees, and forfeitures disproportionately affecect blak people and other communities of color in the united states. and by citing that history, the supreme court says to th states, we understand what is happening and that is a reason to be particularly concerned about the a position of these excessive nes. nermeen: lesa,a,ould you e expln in what caseses it is considered justified for local and state uthorities to impose fines? >> almost every case. a find as a monetary center for the olation of a law. and for many offenses, fines are the only sanctions. for example, if you get a speeding ticket, it is against

the law. no one is going to city to jail -- or at least they shouldn't -- for speeding. fines are imposed in traffic and post in civil code violations, municipal code violations, and also the principle way that wsentntence people and misdeanors. and often today, in felonies. what has hapned over the last 30 years, the amount of those fines has dramatically increased and so have the fees that go with those fines. and fees are not supposed to be a sanction, but they are imposed by state and local goverernmento pay for the cost of the justice system and other government services. to 2015.nt to go back more than a dozen st. uis area residents filed a classawsuit against ferguson and another suburb, jennings. they accused local officials of

creating a "modern debtors'' prison schememe," that targets african americans with arrests and fines and then locks them up whenhey can't pay. democracy now! spoke to allison nelson, e of the plaintiffs in the class-action lawsuits. >> were multiple occasions where i was incarcerated by jennings and ferguson, but just my recent one, it was thanksgiving. it was three days before thanksgiving i was incarcerated in a jennings jail cell. i had been there for three days. and once i left jennings, wl, they negotiated with my mother over the phone to reduce my bond from $1000 to $100, and once they did that, then i was then tranerred to ferguson jail cell thanks giving morning around 3:00 a.m. sat there for a few hours. once they had a shift change in the other correctional officer came in -- i guess it was in a

goodman thanksgiving morning because he came in, called out a list of names and he was just was, ok at the time my bond $700 and he was like, oh, if you can come up with $100, you can go home. given free phone calls at all. i had to call my mother on the collect phone. when you're supposed to speak your name, i had tyell through the phone that they are given the $100 bond, come get me. amy: what were you charged with? >> i was charged with -- what was i charged with? driving while suspended. while suspended. that is allison nelson, one of the plaintiffs in the class-action lawsuit speaking to democracy now! in 2015. lisa fter, if you could talk about the 2016 letter you wrote --this whole issue and also this is while you were at the justice department.

jeffll as the action sessions toowhen he became attorney general. >> allison's store is precisely why we wrote the letter we did. fergusont uprirising and and d after michaell brown was kikilled, the justice departme's civil rights divisioion investigator the ferguson police department. and what they found wass appalling. ferguson was using the justice system to raise revenue, 23% of the city's revenue came from fines and fees imposed by the municipal court and ferguson. officials were telling their police officers to raise revenue, go o and ticket people, which the police department did largely in the community's african-american neighborhoods. so they were imposing multiple tickets. you would be stopped for a traffic event and often four or fiveve diffeferent tickets issu.

people were cicited for high grs and weedgrowing on their front lawn. if they could not pay immediately and ferguson, they werere sent to jail, just like n was. that is unconstitutional. the supreme court back in 1983 said you cannot punish someone simply because they cannot afford to pay a fine. you have to punish them only because i'm what they did was willful. they could afford to pay it and they chose not to. but that is not what was happening in ferguson. ferguson residents were being charged these excessive fines. they could not pay them and they were sent to jail. that is debtors prison. so the department brought together people from all over the country -- judges, lawyersors, activists, -- and try to determine what it was the department could do to try to reform fines and fees in

the united states. one of the things the people asked of the department, particularly judges and state legislators, was for guidance. some explanation of the law that applied to the issues of fines and fees. the thengether with acting director of our civil rightsivision, we wrote a letter. and we set out some black letter law, basic constitutional principles and federal legal principles, that are supposed to inform the ways that fines and fees are imposed and enforced. and we sent that letter to every state chief justice and every state court in -- administrator. i have to say you was well received. many supreme court justices were chief justices sent the letter out to their entire bench, every judge in the state. in arizona, the chief posted the letter online.

and judges all over the country realized that what they had been doing was unconstitutional. now fast-forward to the new and attorneyn general jeff sessions, fairly early onn the administration, announced that he was retracting thatetter, together with pieces of guidance that the obama administration had issued. i don't think it had the effect he intended because many, many states, supreme court, particularly the chief justices, reinforced to their judges that despite the actions of the attorney general, that their colleague letter still applied. nermeen: do you expect the new attorney general william barr to adess the issue differently? >> no. i don't think the department sees its role as advising the

states were working with the these to change practices. amy: i want to go back to 2016 when we spoke to a woman named janice. she is a native of little rock, arkansas, who said she wrote a check for $1.07 for a loaf of bread that bounceded. the debt ballooned after fees and fines to neay $400. janice spoke to democracy now! on the condition of anonymity from fear of arrest. i want to go to that clip. >> on several occasions, i have been arrested by sherwood police bounced checks, insufficient fds checks will stop i have even been arrested on my job, to different jobs, as a matter of fact. hospitals.nt totaled -- ie would say less than1000. they are small checks.

was a bad manager. i did not keep a good register. so therefore, i had bounced checks. $20, $100 may have been the highest number of checks that i wrote. but i have had accumulated fees up to thousands of dollars in , roughly less than $1000 worth of checks. amy: that was janice and little rock, arkansas, speaking to us a few years ago. what happens now with people like janice and everyone else as a result of this? you can comment on this outside of this particular decision, a unanimous supreme court decision across the political spectrum, what this means in this day and age, lisa foster. >> what it means is that advocates around the country now

o end ofew tool to usese the imposition of fees and excessive fines and forfeitures and the justice system. ey can go to state and local governments and talk about the supreme court opinion and if necessary, they can su state and local governments who iose excessive fines, fees, and forfeitures. the stories -- allison's and janice's store is commercially,, are the storories of millions of people. for example, in california, the fine for running a red light, you raise that yellow light and lost. the fine is $100. that is what the legislature for runningsanction the red light. but that is not what you owe the ste of california. if you' convicted of running a red like, you owe $490 because the california legislature attaches an additional $390 of

fees to that $100 fine. the average american does not have $400 in the bank for an emergency, so how are they supposed to come up with $490 to pay to the state? a lowuthfully, if you are income person, you cannot do that -- at least, not right away. and at happens around the countryf you nnot immediately afford to pay your fines and fees is exactly what happened to allison and janice. and in 43s go up states, your driver's license is suspended. it is cut or to suspend some of these drivers license because they did not. that -- it is counterproductive to suspend someone's drivers license because they did not a because you take away their means of running a living to pay back the debt. evenn americans drive

while the license is suspended because they have to go to work, have to get their kids to school, have to get a family member to the doctor, and if they are stopped by law enforcement for driving on a suspended license, it is a misdemeanor. now they have a criminal record. or fines and fees are imposed. we created an endless cycle of punishment of poverty. that is happening all over the country today. and this case gives advocates a new tool to fight those practices. in the lisa foster, thank you for being wiwith us co-directorf , fines and fees justice center. her organization, along with others, filed an amicus brief in the suprpreme court case timbs . indiana. she is a retired jge andhe former director of the office for access to justice at the u.s. department of justice. this is democracy now! when we come back, you will hear the analogy made a president trump's, well, i meant i is

considering toto head ofof a committee to look at whether climate change effects national security. we will speak withhe author of a new book "the uninhabitable earth: life after warming." stay with us. ♪ [muc break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, e war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. nermeen: we spend the rest of the hour on the climate crisisis following g reports that t the e house is organizing a new coittee to examine whether climate chan poses threat to natial secity. efforts to form the panel -- namethe presidential committee on climate security -- are being led by princeton university professor emerit and trump science advisor william happer, physicist and known climate change denier. observers say his selection indicates the trump administration wants to undermine findings within the national security community that climate change poses a severe threat to human safety. william happer is a national security council senior director who has long claimed increasing the amount of carbon oxide in the atmosphehere will actually benefit humamans. in a 2017 interview published in the guardian, happer said --

"there's a whole area of climate so-called science that is really more like a cult. it's like hare krisa or something like that. they're glassy-eyed and they chant." happer also has served on the board d of the co2 c coalition, which h cites as itsts mission educating policy leaders and the puic about "the important contribution made by carbon diide and fossil fuels." he has also compared the fight against climate change to the holocaust. this is happer speing on cnbc with andrew ross sorkin in 2014. >> you made a comment back in 2000 and comparing climate change to the holocaust was to my question is, are you suggesting when you made that comment that climatologists and climate scientist are the equivalent of hitr and nazis? a you know, i get called denier and anyone who objects to all the hype gets called a

denier. that is supposed to make me a holocaust denier. i'm getting tired of that. thecomment i made was demonization of carbon dioxide just like the demonization of the poor jews underhitler. carbon dioxide is actually a benefit to the world and so were the jews. amy: that is william happer, defending his statement that "the demonization of carbon dioxide is justike the demonization of the poor jews h unritler." funding --ports prohibiting federally-funded scientists from communicating their findings to the public. news that he might lead trump's new climate committee comes despite a widespread consensus about the massive threat climate change poses to humanityty. last year, government findings collected by 13 federal agencies reported that climate change

poses an extreme threat to american infrastruure, economy and public health. we turn now to journalist david wallace wells, who is sounding the alarm about e climate crisis and the need for swift and radical action to save the planet from unimaginable destruction. his new book reports tt global warming is far worse tn reports of even the worst case scenarios. the book is called "the uninhabitable earth: life after warming." the book offers the dire warning that the planet is on course to more than four degrees celsius of warming by 2100. this means "whole regions of africa and australia and the united states, parts of south america north of patagonia, and asia south of siberia would be rendered uninhabitable by direct heat, desertification, and flooding." we're joined now by the book's author. david wallace wells is deputy editor and climate columnist for new york magazine. it is so great to have you with us. so start off by responding to

dr. happer and also the reason present trump is setting up the government-- has said over and over again, even a trump administration government, but climate change is a national security threat, one of the worst. so why this committee? >> i think you put your finger on it, they want to discredit those findings. it seems like they're looking for people, not just to hold their same ideology, but they're going to irritate the liberals who are watching this very closely. i don't see what else you would pick someone like this to be part of this committee. the holocaust analogy is especially interesting because we are already today killing 9 million people a year globally with small particular pollution. it happens because we ar burning fossil fuels. 9 million people every year.

that is more than died in thee holocaust. ifif we get toto two degegrees warming, predictioions are we wl ha kililled 150 billllion people in t the small particulate pollution. amy: how do you know? so just in thated gap we would be killed and 150 million people, the crippling of holocausts. two degrees is functionally our best case scenario which was absolute best case scenario is suffering ththe scale of 255 holocausts, which puts this guy's comments about this -- visiting context. amy: comparing carbon dioxide to jews. >> it is interesting additionally because the department of events and security state have been really interesting source of far-reaching projections about climate change within the u.s. for a long time. they are among more conservative part of the federal government, and yet they are very hard

minded and realistic and concern with the fate of american power in the world. they have been very clear and the projections for what is possible, not just the flooding of navy bases and other military bases -- which is a big part of it -- but how totally the global map will be destabilized by the forces of warming. in many parts of the world, whole societies could be torn asunder, pushed into civil war. nations that have been living uncomfortably next each other, could be pushed into war. it is believed much of the unrest in the middle east is becae of global warming. this is part of the world where warming has hit first and the hardest. people are studying the relationships between conflict and warming suggest for every ve to group warming, we will 20% increase0% and in conflict. if we get to four degrees of warming by the end of the century -- which is what the u.n. things were we will be -- we will have twice asuch war

or more by the end of the century. nermeen: the u.s. military, not only of course has warned of this being a national -- climate being a national security threat, but also talked about climate change as a threat multiplier. what does that mean? change is an all-encompassing threat that touches every aspect of life on thplanet will stop many of those impacts will be damaging, so there's a cost toconomic growth. economists believe if we do not change course on climate, we will have a gdp at least 20% smaller. there's the cost of public healththe impact of drought and agricultural yields. if we get to four degrees by the end of the century, we might veve granules that are half as bountiful as who would without them. all of these things impose a burden on any society.

some societies are wealthy enough and adaptable enough to endure and find other ways to feed their people and take care of their sick, but others are not. in many of the societi will likely fall into conflict as a result of global warming. the people who studied this most closely are careful to say most wars we see are not the direct cause of wming, but warming is a factor in many conflicts. for instance, the syrian civil war. lebanon had a somewhat drought and they were not pushed into civil disarray, but the syrian civil war was the result of a drought and it produced a refugee crisis that has completely destabilized european politics. one million refues came out of syria and into europe. there were more of it only one million made it. could be to the u.n., 100 or 200 or even 1000 times as big a crisis could happen. amy: we're going to go to break and come back to this discussion

with david wallace wells, author of the book "the uninhabitable earth: life after warming." stay with us. ♪ [music brbreak]

amy: "snow in april" by danny vera. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. today, gretaier thunberg, the 16 euro swedish, activist, addressed european union in brussels. she has garnered little attention for carrying out a school strike against climate change in her home country of sweden. >> we need to focus every inch of our being on climate change because if we fail to do so, then all of our achievements and progress had been for nothing. and all that will remain of our political leaders legacy will be the greatest failure of human history. and they will bremembered as the greatest villains of all time because they have chosen not to listen and not to act.

if you still say we are wasting valuable lesson time, then let remind you that our political leaders have wasted decades through denial and inaction. and since our time is running out, we have decided to take action. we have started to clean uyour mess and we will not stop until we are done. thank you. activist greta thunbe speaking in brussels as the european union today. we are joined by david wallace wells, deputy editor and climate columnist for new york magazine. his new book is titled "the uninhabitable earth: life after warming." david, could you respond to what also -- obvious league, she is a scandinavian activist and we all know in scandinavia,he response to climate chan has been much

more forceful in much earlier than in the united states. yoand your book, you yourself right just "i am like every other american wh spent their life place it anwill fully diluted about climate justic chang" first, your response to her and then-way from being complacent american to writing a book called "the uninhabitable earth." >> first, i am in awe of greta. she is not alone. all of the children who are mobilizing on the issue have an incredible moral stature that shames us grown-ups, their parents, grandparents for what we have done and are continuing to do. i think the activism she has inspired is thrilling, actually exhilarating. you see all across europe. you see it with extinction rebellion this started in the u.k. and spreading in the u.s.,

and all of the activism that h pushed the green new deal here. i think things are changing quite rapidly on the ground. the gold standard measure of public opinion is this yale study that comes up every december. the numbers are more than 70% of americans believe global warmg is happening now and are concerned about it. those numbers have jumped 15% in just a few years, 8% since march. things are moving quickly. the question is whether ourr policy will move quickly enough to respond. my own story is, you know, i am not an environment list. i have been an urban whole life. 1990's.teenager in the i bieved that while the promises of globalization and neoliberalism were imperfect, also believe history told a story of progress and over time the world would be getting better, more prosperous, safer, cleaner, more just.

those stories would be erratic for they would unfold over time. just over the last two years, really begetting and 2016 when i started seeing much more alarming reports about clima change than i have seen before and noticed those reports were not showing up in our newspapers orelevision accounts of climate change, there were some quite bleak possibilities on the horizon. and so profound an application said they would really unbuild or reverse those opinions that had about a young person growing up when i did that cost to our society could be so great that we really did stop thinkining of the future as containing more prosperous possibility for us and started thinking of the past perfect time. amy: talk about u.s. military, what it understands about the threat of global warming to national security. absolutelybilizes everything aut geopolitics. arelries between states

destabilized. it changes the calculus of where resources are valuable. it transforms shipping routes in the front lines of battle. for instance, the arctic is melting. that means there is new territory to fight over. there is already a rivalry between u.s. and russia. china is involved. the act nature of these dynamics is shifting with the effects of change. so russia was a country that a few years ago we thought of as kind of second rate power. but climate change promises to benefit them in a couple of ways, in part because ey benefit from theurning of fossil fuels and in part because their economy is one of the few in the world that is far enough north it will actually benefit from se additional warming. the relationshipip of temperatue and economic growth is complicated, but there are some countries that will benefit and most who will suffer as the result of warming. russia is poised to benefit. that means along with everything else we are seeing, russia to dynamicigger and more

role. the sinister of china. the way they are approaching china as he and d building newew islands in that season just they are e try just a l list of foots in a theater basically dominated by the u.s. military central or two and d on footholds -- werthr on footholds are at risk of disappearing because many of the islands will be underwater by thmiddle of the centurury. amy: but i'm in, what the u.s. military understands. this is trump's problem, why he is setting up this committee, because they are a strong force for understanding pulling of the great nional security threat of the 21st century and understanding the effects of, for example, climate migration -- the pressures people will feel leaving their countri to go to others to save themselves. trump has to discredit all of this if he wants to succeed in denying climate change. discredit his entire government. >> personally, i think trump is

less of a denier than someone who seen as an opportunity in slow walking action on climate. i don't think he really cares whether it is real, i just think he sees in advantage and american and action -- inaction. interesting new news from science, from economic research in particular is that while his view had been a kind of conventional picture of whether we should act on climate or not, that is to say 10 years ago economist would have said it was quite costly and would involve for going real economic growth, all of the recent research suggests faster action will be better for us economically. we could save $26 trillion in the global economy by 2030, which is a very fast return if we do governess quickly. i don't thk that is percolated yet into our policy maks, spspecially like donald trtrump.

once the logic is clear that faster action is better for the economy, i think we may see a sea chan in our public policy. we will see. nermeen: one thing that is very powerful about your book is we are used to thinking of climate change as a series of taclysmic events -- floods, hurricanes, etc-- but you point o that climate change is also a problem of durion. in other words, it is not only very fast, it is also very long. and the longer it goes o on, its key militant affects results and even more catastrophic events -- ina late of affects results en more catastrophic events. you write, you might hope to's of the reverse climate change, but you can't. it will outrun all of us. >> that is especialltrueith regarding the melting of ice. if we pass the tipping points of ice monday, those processes will take p place over centnturies ad maybe even millennia, but the

skill of the impacts they will bring our enormous. we could see at least 100 feet of sea level rise, possibly as much as 250 feet. that would complety transfm thmap of t w world it is so impornt to understa climatehange inot binary stem, notuestio of wheer it has happenedr not. ery tickpward makeshe imcts wars everyick ward we oid willake them better 2.5 degrs will be coiderably worse o than two degrees, three degrees worse than 2.5 degrs. while the scale of f some of the horrors is a must paralyzing horror show, it is also a reminder of how much power we have and will always have over the climate. if we get to four degrees, it will be because of action we take now. but that means we can avoid getting there if we take action quickly. amy: and the different responsibilities of people in different countries, like the united states versus the global

south? >> the u.s. has the lion share of historical emissions. we should be a true moral leader. at the moment, china is the biggest driver of emissions and going forward i think will the main driver of the future climate of the planet. american and eu missionsre falling, although not fast enough, and chinese emissions are growing. i think the scarier, uglier ral oculus has to do with the impacts, which is to say that it is the global south being hit the hardest. that is ready the case, but it will certainly be the case in the decades ahead. you see projections that many of the biggest cities in india and the middle east will be lethally hot in summer as soon as 2050, which means you won't be able to go outside without incurring some risk of heat stroke. riskusly, bangladesh is at of flooding about half of its landmass. it is especially grotese new think those two countries were for so long the colonies of britain who invented and built an empire off fossil fuel.

nermeen: you point out it is not just a question of consumption in the u.s., for example, it is also the sheer waste. you write -- not "two thirds of american energy is wted and americans waste one quarter of their food." you would think this is a fairly easy problem to resolve. >>, change in a certain way is an easy problem to resolve if we just had focus and enough muscle behind it. everywhere you look, there are solutions like that. there's a lot of talk now about lifestyle chang -- choices and diet as it relates to climate change. i feel all of the talk is a distraction. buthere is research that shows if you feed cattle seaweed, or methane emissions fall by as much as 95% or 99%. which means if we legislated that all cattle farmers for them seaweed, we could be beef

guiltlessly. there are really those kinds of solutions alst everywhere you look. there are some sectors that are harder to do carbon as, for instanceair travel. some sectors of industry. but there are some interesting technological movements on those fronts, too. amy: the reason you chose your title "the uninhabitable earth: life after warming." a theis conceivable fact that we brought it inrview at all is a huge indictment of everything we've done over the last few decades. amy: david wallace wells, thank you for being with us deputy , editor and climate columnist for new york magazine. his new book is titled "the uninhabitable earth: life after warming." that does it for our show. we have a job opening, accepting applications for aull-time one year paid news production fellowsh. details at democracynow.org.

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