03/01/19 03/01/19 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from pacifica, this is democracy now! outeople like me, to come and ask folks this morning on democracy now! to pack the courtroom at 12:30 p.m. today. today is our day to prove that history is on our side and we will be judged by our conduct against a demagogue, a fascist

regime. amy: last week immigrant activist patricia okoumou on the southwest key building in austin, texas, to protest the company jailing immigrant children. now a judge in new york will decide whether to revoke herer bail frorom her secondnd arrestn she climbed t the statue e of libeberty o on july 4 4 to prott president trump's zero tolerance policy. en we speak k with three climate and 10,s ages 16, , , who confronted keller pointed democratic senator dianne feinstein, demanding she take bold action on climate change and support the green new deal. >> we responded by saying thatt really, senator feinstein, it is too pricey to not enact the green new deal and the longer we wait, the more costly and devastating the consequences of this climate crisis will be. amy: finally, we speak with author shoshana zuboff about

"the age of surveillance capitalism: the fight for a human future at the new frontier of power." surveilnce capitalism promises to transform 21st-ctutury society in ways that are profoundly anti-hun ananti-demratic. and all for the sake of surveillance revenues. amy: all that and more, c coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. a united nations inquiry found thursday israeli forces may have committed war crimes and crimes against humanity by targeting unarmed protesters in gaza with lethal force, including children, journalists, and the disabled. the report by the u.n. human rights council looked at israel's bloody response to weekly great march of return demonstrations launched by palestinians in gaza nearly a year ago, targeting israel's

heavily militarized separation barrier. the report found israeli forces killed 189 palestinians -- almost all of them with live ammunition. ththis is saraosossain, a mememr ofof the u.n. inindependent commisission that led the investigation. >> intentionally shot children, intentionally shot people with disabilities, they have .ntentionally shot journalists children, but many of them are. the journalists were all marked with press vests that we investigate it. the people with disabilities said there was a double-amputee in a will chair dish will chair. they are being shot at by snipers who also have very high level technology available to see who is out there in the field. amy: the u.n. report calls on

states to arrest "persons alleged to have committed, or who ordered to have committed, the international crimes," or to seek their extradition. israel's acting foreign minister dismissed the report as "theater of the absurd." meanwhile, israel's attorney general said he will indict thursday prime minister benjamin netanyahu on charges of bribery, fraud, and breach of trust. netanyahu is accused of trading political favors for positive press coverage and, separately, for hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of luxury goods, including jewelry, cigars, and champagne. the charges come just weeks before an april 9 election that will see netanyahu try t to hold together his fragile ruling coalition. "the new york times" reports president trump ordered then chief of staff john kelly to grant his son-in-law and senior adviser jared kushner a top-secret security clearance last year, over the objections of intelligence officials. "the times" cited four people

briefed on the matter who say trump sought to overrule the judgment of the cia and then-white house counsel don mcgahn, who argued kushner should not have been granted access to top-secret documents. kushner failed to report over 100 foreign contacts on his initial application for clearance, which was denied by the fbi after a background check into his financial history and context with foreign investors that took more than a year. christian later revised his application three times and was ultimately granted permanent security clearance last may. president trump has repeatedly denied intervening on his son-in-law's behalf, including in this oval office interview in january with maggie haberman of "the new york times." >> there's been a story in the news the last two weeks about your son-in-law's security clearance. [indiscerniblele] pres. trump: i don't think i

have the a authority to do that. but i would not do it. is a good -- i was never involved with his security. amy: jared kushner's wife -- and president trump's daughter and senior advisor, ivanka trump -- also denied president trump played a role in winning a security clearance for kushner. she was speaking with abc's abby huntsman. >> there were anonymous leaks about there being issues, but the president had no involvement pertaiaining to my clearance ory husbanand's cleararance. amy: o on thursdayay, white houe prpress secretary sarah huhuckae sanders responded to "the new york times" report saying, "we don't comment on security clearances." in afghanistan, taliban fighters attacked a major army base in helmand province friday, with initial reports indicating as many as 20 afghan soldiers killed. the violence came as the trump administration is floating a peace plan that would see the u.s. withdraw all its troops

from afghanistan within three-to-five years, while shifting the responsibility for training afghan forces to u.s. allies in europe and australia. u.s. offfficials are setet to re peace e talks with the talibiban this weekend in qatatar's capit, doha. in somalia, officials say at least 15 p people were k killed thursday after two separate suicide car bombers targeted a pair of hotels in the capital mogadishu.u. one of the attacks set off an hours-long gunfight, with somali soldiers battling al shabaab fighters in a building adjacent to one o of the hohotels theyy claimed respononsibility foror attacking. north korea's foreign minister -- north korea has contradict the president trump's expo nation of why talks in hanoi between president trump and north korean leader kim jong-un came to an abrupt end thursday. speaking to reporters, the foreign minister said north korea asked for only partial sanctions relief in exchange for dismantling its main nuclear complex. our proposal l s thahat we will

permanently dismantle alll of or nuclear material production sites, including plutonium and uranium facilities in the air as a joint work b by engineers from both countries. in the presence of experts from the united states. if the u.s. lifts the sanctions that affects our people's livelihood. amy: the statement contradicts president trump's claimed that he walked away after they demanded total relief in exchange for disarming the facility. back in the united states, immigrant rights groups are warning of a dramatic increase in the number of infants being held in a texas immigrant detention facility, with at least nine babies currently in ice custody. in a complaint filed with the department of homeland security thursday, advocates say babies held in the south texas family residentntial center i in dilley have shown signs of illness, weight loss, and emotional distress while they'y've been detaineded with their momothers. at least one of the infants has been held for more than 20 d das -- the legal limit fororetaining childrenen under the flores agreement, a law the trumpmp adadministrationon is seseekingo change.

on capapitol hill, h house lawms approved a bill to expand background checks for firearms purchases from three days to 10 days. the bill would close what's been dubbed the charleston loophole -- under which white supremacist dylann roof was able to purchase a gun used to massacre nine worshipers at the emanuel ame church in charleston, south carolina. thursday's vote followed another gun control bill approved wednesday to strengthen federal background checks. that bill came under fire from immigrant rights groups after some democrats defected and helped approve a last-minute amendment offered by republicans that would require immigration and customs enforcement officials be notified any time an undocumented immigrant tries to buy a gun. both house bills face an uphill battle in the republican-controlled senate, anand the whitite house has sigd it would veto the measures. the house intelligence committee said t thursday it plans to interview trump organization chief financial officer allen weisselberg following the

explosive testimony of president trump's former personal attorney michael cohen on capitol hill this week. cohen will return to capitol hill later this month alongside russian-born real estate developer felix sater to testify about their involvement in the trump tower moscow project. sater will testify publicly before the house intelligence committee on march 14. cohen is expected to testify on virginia's first lady pam march 6. northam has apologized after she handed out cotton to african american students touring the governor's mansion and asked them to imagine being an enslaved cotton-picker. the incident came as governor ralph northam, a democrat, continues to resist mounting calls from within his own party to step down after claims he posed for a racist photo seen in his 19 mededicalchchool yearbook page depictiting a man wearing blacackface next to a man wearig a a ku klux klan outfit.

northam has denied that he is in the photo, b but he did admit to wearing blackface on another occasion that same year and apologized. after the latest incident, leah dozier walker, the mother of one of the students handed cotton by first lady pam northam, said in a statement -- "the governor and mrs. northam have asked the residents of the commonwealth to forgive them for their racially insensitive past actions. but the actions of mrs. northam, just last week, do not lead me to believe that this governor's office has taken seriously the harm and hurt they have caused african americans in virginia or that they are deserving of our forgiveness." the republican-controlled senate voted thursday to confirm foforr coal industry lobbyist andrew wheeler as administrator of the environmental protection agency. thursday's 52-47 vote was mostly along party lines with only one republican, susan collins of maine, defecting. wheeler has served as acting epa

administrator since july after his predecessor, scott pruitt, stepped down amid a series o of ethicscs scandals. washington state's democratic governor jay inse anannoced today he w will rufofor pridenet in 2 202 in aideo p pted to youtube, inslee said he wouould me ththe issue b battling clclimatchange hihis top prioty. >> we are the fit genatation to feethe stinof climate chge and 're t last th can somethi about i we went to the moon, cread tenonologyhat has changed the world. our untrtry's nene mission must the toisise up to the most urgent cllllengef ouour time, defeating climate chgege. amy: govnor insl is expeed toormally nounce h candacy latetoday at solar nel company in seattle. in antwerp, belgium, thousands of students walked out of classes thursday in a school strike demanding political action to combat catastrophic climate change. similar protests have swept cities across europe and around the world in recent weeks. the strikes were begun by

16-year-old swedish climate activist greta thunberg, who addressed the antwerp crowd on thursday. >> if you wait too long, the politicians and the people in power have gotten away with not doing anything to solve the climate crisis. we will make sure they will not get away with it anymore. we are striking because we are done our homework and they have not. amy: to see our full hour with greta thunberg when we met her at the u.n. climate summit in full and, go to democracynow.org . and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. immigrant rights activist patricia okoumou who made national headlines last yeaear after shshe scout the e statue f liberty to protest family separations, climbed atop a southwesest key building stst we to protest the company, which operates detention centers for migrant children.

today, as thousands of children and men seseparated from their parents, a judge will dedecide whether to revoke okoumou's bail from her first arrest because of her activism in texas last week. okoumou is with a group rise and resist in july 4 last are as they dropped a banner from the statue of liberty that read "abolish ice." she broke away from the group and climbed all the way to lady liberty's left foot, where she continued to protest and r refud to leave until she was arrested. she spspoke to reporters after e came down. when they go low, we go high. i went as high as i could. [cheers]s] amy: patricia okoumou has sincne plpleaded not guilty to trespapassing, interference with government agency y functions, d disorderlyly conduct. her sentencicing is scheduduledr marcrch 19. prosecutors claim her latest protest this past week in

austin, texas, was a violation of the terms of her bond and she is been ordered back to court today where her bail could be revoked and she could be immediately jailed. just hours before she presents herself at the court house, immigrant t rights activist patricia okoumou joins us now in our new york studio. welcome to democracy now! welcome to democracy now!, climber. >> i am a big fan. amy: tell us about what you did last week in austin, texas. >> let's not forget it was valentines. i was planning ahead of time at least two to three weeks about my action. i targeted the ceo, a billionaire who is making money off of this detention center. he makes about $750,000 per day per child at his detention center.

obviously, his interest is in making money and not hosting migrant children as his staff wants us to believe. so i wanted to deliver the cause that my friends and supporters have written down to these children who are in cages. i wanted to deliver them. we had a gallery called last box, who donated the space for us. i went there for a 10 day journey starting in el paso. -- one >> san antonio the detention facility. >> it is ground zero. our action was the coalition with me, to remember what happened on that site. and also there's is another site just 20 miles away where i was able to climb a fence while the group was cheering and calling the children and telling them how much we love them and wishing them happy valentines.

we were on the outside. that is how i do my activism. i climb ththings. amy: why du climb? who inspired you? >> i father was an airline pilot for the president of my country. amy: you are from the congo? >> i am from the congo. he was flying the president all over. i was inspired by his leadership. we were healthy at we live in this environment and we're close to the airport where i got to climb a lot. amy: it sounds like you've also got some in for -- inspiration from current and past latest. can you describe what you are wearing? >> it is a dress, it is green, and it says "i really care. why won't you?" on august 3, i went to one of my hearings and i spoke in front of the press. the dress went viral. the media was reporting i was truly first lady melania trump

for her jacket she was wearing on her way to a detention center. i think she is cold and calculated. she does not care about my grandchildren. and i'm here to say we do care. #wedocare. wore said "iet she really don't care." really,tions show i really care. i do not have a 9:00 to 5:00 job. i'm a full-time activist. amy: when you climbed the statue of liberty, for which you might be put in jail today because of your violation of the bond conditions by coming southwest key, you said you are inspired by michelle obama? >> i was inspired by michelle obama. i think she was warning us through out the campaign trail to hold on dearly to our democracy, to our values and traditions. and tradition is at

stake. our democracy is at stake. i come from a place where we hold dearly our values. it is very important. we do not compromise these things. amy: and you climbed the statue of liberty, is it true you talk about what she said when they go low, we go high? >> yes. have gonee i could higher. so i went as high as i could. "when they go low, i went high and i went as high as i could. amy: what is your message to separated children? >> the message is that children do not have a sense of time. god gives them a sense of -- recognizing the mother's milk, smelling their parents. tender agech children, we break their spirit. we are creating damage. these are concentration camps. amy: can you talk about what is

happening today and why you risked your freedom to climb the southwest key facility, now the judge calling you back in? >> i don't think i risked my freedom because on march 19, come sentencing, nobody knows what is going to happen. we don't know if the judge is going to send me to jail for 18 months. amy: what about today? prison,, i am facing incarceration. it is what it is. the way i look at it, i was inspired by god to doan act that many people dream of doing. our children are watching us. when we call human beings illegals or aliens, we're setting a bad presidents. it is a rhetorical we need to stop. that is off your mongering. what is happening today is about fear mongering. i have been intimidated to stop my actions. amy: your called in court today at 12:30? >> at 2:00.

i'm asking my friends and supporters to come at 12:30. amy: this is in manhattan? i thank you for giving me the platform to talk about my message, about the children in cages, and this is a perfect opportunity to continue the work. amy: okoumou, thank you for being with us, immigration rights activist facing possible prison time for scaling the statue of liberty on july 4 last year to protest president trump's zero tolerance family separation policy. she will find out today if her bail is being revoked and will have to go to prison ahead of her march 19 sentencing. he scaled southwest key facility in austin, texas, known for holding immigrant children. this is democracy now! when we come back, we will hear from children who confronted democratic senator dianne feinstein, demanding she support the green new deal. us.y with asphal

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amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. "we're the ones affected." those are the words of youth climate activists who confronted california senator dianne feinstein last week in san francisco, demanding she sign on to the green new deal. in a video of the interaction that has since been seen across the country feinstein dismissed , the children, some as young as seven years old, asking her to take bold action on climate change. >> w we are trying to ask you to vovote yes on n the green nenew. looks ok. i i will tell you whwhat. we h have ou own green new deal. >> scientists have s said we hae 12 yeyears to turn ththis aroun. >> well, it is not when you get turned around in 10 years. what we can do -- >> senator, if this does not get turned around, you're looking at of the people

that are going to be facing the consequences. >> you know what is interesting ababout this groupup? i hahave been doing this for 30 yearars. i knowow what i'm doing. you comeme in here anand you sat has to be my w orr the highway. i don't respond to that. . have gotten elected i just ran. i was elelected by almost a million votes. i know what i'm doing. so maybe people should listen a littttle bit. >> i hear what youou're saying,, but we are the people who voted you. you're are supposed to listen to you. >> how old are you? >> i'm 16. >> you didn't vote. >> we're the ones impacted. we a are goingng to be the ones impacted. >> i underststand that. i i have seven grandchildren.. i understand it very well. >> senator, , thcost of nonot taking this action is f far higr

than what the cost of the green new deal will be. there is enormous popularity for this bill around the whole country. we arere asking you to be brave and do this for your grandchildren. >> i'm trying t to do the besesi can, which was to write a responsible resolution. folks in a plan that does not take action is not one to be what we need. >> you know better than i do, so i think one day you should run for the edit. >> great, i wiwill. >> and you could do it your way. >> by that time, there are going to be big problems. feinstein,s dianne the senator from california, being confronted by teens and preteens about her position on climate change. yesterday, i spoke with three of the climate activists who confronted senator feinstein. i began by speaking with isha clarke, a 16-year-old junior at metwest high school in oakland. she is an activist with youth versus apocalypse.

i asked her why she went to senator feinstein's office. >> ask her to vote yes on the green new deal. while we were there, she said things like "it is not going to pass in the senate,," "it is too pricey." senatornded by saying, feinstein, it is too pricey to not enact a green new deal and the longer we wait, the more thely and devastating consequences of this climate crisis will be. frankly, we understand the green new deal may not pass in the senate right now because we know the republicans hold a majority, but that is important our politicians take a stand and say they are in solidarity with us and that they understand the weight of this climate crisis and that -- so that t we can stt to buildhehe momomentum for when we do hold a majority in the senate and it will pass right takeand we can really

needed action. amy: senator feinstein has been in the senate for over a quarter of a century. your answer to her whehen she responded to all of you in her office saying she has a lot more experience than you do, that she knows what she is doing when she introduces a resolution or a bill, she knows how to get --- what g gets passed and what doesn't? >> while i have a lot of respect for her, and of all of f the wok she is done, i think there is always change to be made. there is always room for improvement. just because she has more life experience than me does not mean anything because i am ththe o oe who is experiencing most directly the effects of this climate crisis. i am the one who has to miss school because of smoke days. i am the one who has to worry about flash floods and mudslides and fires. i am the one who is at the forefront of those experiences, so i should be the one who is telling her what needs to be

done, for that to be changed. amy: what got you so interested in this issue, the issue of climate change? >> it is for two reasons.. one, because we are really seeing the impacts of the climate crisis right now. inis raining a lot california right now, and usually that would be a really good thing because of the drought that w was made extremey more s severe by climate change. butt now we scared about the ran because there can be floods s ad there can be mudslides because of the fires that just happened that is also because of the climate crisis. we have had to miss school because of smoke days. that did not happen 10, 20, 30 years ago. in the second reason is i really think that climate change is an intersectional issue and especially when dealing with the green new deal, it encompasses so many issues -- economic justice, racial justice, women's

rights -- so many things. and through fighting for climate justice, i can also fight for the other justices i am super passionate about. amy: on monday, after the weekend, you held a news conference with other young the offices of senator r feinsteiein. i want to o play a c clip from . >> we will n not take the excuse of a a green new deal isis too pricey. itit is to proceed tonight -- pricicey to not enact the greenn new w deal. the longer we take to take costly this crisis will be. amy: isha clarke last monday outside senator feinstein's office. isha, can you talk about what you went back to senator feinstein's offices? what had she proposed to you all on friday after shshe said she d not support the renew deal? -- the green new deal? close she presented us with her

own solution that was really a disappointment. it was a a watered-down versionf the green new deal. it did not talk about offshore drilling or fracking, which is something that is a huge issue in california. it did not address grereen jobs dd transportation. wasn't -- -- it just oh, it did not align with science. we have 12 years and her plan gave us until 2050. if we wait until 2050 to make is goinghen our earth to dieie. we will quitee literally have an apocalypse, like it says on my shirt. we were calling for her to drop the resolution and to vote yes on the green new deal because that is the only plan right now that aligns with justice and aligns with science. amy: what does the green new deal mean to youou? is ae green new deal revolutionary way to fix a lot

of the issues that we are seeing in our country right now, both the climate crisis that is not only in our country but global, and to address the economic struggles that we are facing right now. we don't have enough jobs that adequately can sustain them, can give them living wages, can give them benefits to provide for their families. and we are seeing a lot of racial inequality. the green new deal really brings all of those justices to light and helps to solve those issues that we are e seeing in our country. amy: : can you tell us about yourselflfhow you gogot so interested inn clilimate changed what you plan toto do?o? >> i started getting involved with climate justice, actually, with a similar interaction with a developer who is trying to build a coal terminal through oakland. i was with some of the folks who versus apocalypse

and we went to his office to ask to not build the terminal because it is going to kill us. it was a somomewhat kind o of coconfrontation. -- similar kind of confrontation. amy: and what do you want to be? >> i don't really know. ahad dreams of becoming surgeon, but i think i could also be a super amazing and community organizer. i really want to find a way to encompass all of the things that i love doing. amy: finally, you are a junior at metwest high school in oakland. the oakland teachers are on strike. can you talk about what that means for you? so you're not going to school today? >> no. i still take some college classes that i have to go to, but i don't go to school, i don't go to my high school. amy: what do you think of your teachers being on strike? >> i fully stand in solidarity with them. i think that the fight is really

about them, but in turn, it is about the young people because if they're not getting paid adequately, then we can't have good teachers who are teaching us what we need to learn and creating a future. and i think it all goes back to this idea that we don't have enough money to be able to fund our future. i am in compmplete solidarity wh them. amy: isha clarkeke, 16-year-old junior at metwtwest high schooln oakland where the teachers have been on strike for the past week. she is an activist with youth versus apocalypse. we turn now to two more of the youth climate activists who confronted senator dianne feinstein last week at her office, 12-year-old rio and 10-year-old sister magdalena are with earth guardians san francisco bay area crew. i began by asking magdalena about her reaction to how senator feinstein addressed their call to support the green new deal. >> well, first of all, i want to

say that i am really thankful and grateful that she let us in and that we got to actually have a seat and talk. at i think she could've been little more respectful and how she communicated with us. but it is not about her, it is more about getting green new deal and having a place to live. i saw a sign in a said "there is no planet b." i totally agree with that. we have things that we don't t that wer planets have need to preser a and protectct, like oceanans that are g getting warmed, polar icice caps getting melted, animals getting killed and endangered that we need to say. amy: i want to go to the clip of you are confronting senenator feinstein. this is s that clip. you tore tryingng to ask vote yes on the green nenew dea. >> ok. i will tell you what. we have our own green new deal.

>> the government is supposed to be for the people and by the people -- >> you know what is intererestig abouout this group? i hahave been n doing this for 0 years. i know what i am doing. you come in herere and you say t hahas to be my way or the highw. i don't respond toto that. amy: that is senator feieinstein. rio and magdalena, you're very vocal. rio, you were asking why she doesn't support the green new deal. sit in her feinstein says she has more experience and you do. what is your response. >> i think we are the ones were going to have to be living with it and what the world is going to be like in 10 years, 12 years , we're going to have to live with it, so saying that we don't have asked., yes, we don't have experience but we have the will. this is one to be our future. amy: why do you think the green new deal is so important, rio?

>> ever since i was two years old, i've had a love for the ocean, marine life. i am scared that climate change will take that from me and the world. --m scared that it is everything is just going to be messed up, like everyone's future is going to be terrible. i think the green new deal is a big step into presererving our future. and that is why i think it should be a thing. amy: rio, senator feinstein said she has seven grandchildren. what message do you have for her grandchildren? >> well, i think that they are going to be the ones that are going to have to be dealing with houses being flooded and forest .ires and natural disasters and i think that -- i want them to know they can make a

difference, like what we have done. like, i did not expect this, but it just shows how powerful our voices are. amy: i would like to turn to another young person, the teenage swedish climate activist greta thunberg. we met her in poland. she addressed the u.n. climate summit in december and she is leading the school strike movement around the world. she stands outside the swedish parliament every friday. this is what she had to say at the u.n. climate summit. >> the year 2078, i will celebrate my 75th birthday. if i have children, maybe they will spend the day with me. maybe they will ask you about you. maybe they will ask why you didn't do anything while there was still titime to act.

you say you love your children you arel else, and yet seeing their future in front of the very eyes. until you start focusing on what needs to be dodone rather than what is politically possible, there is no hope. we cannot solve the crisis without treating it as a crisis. we need to keep the fossil fuels in the ground and we need to focus on -- and your solutions are so of maybe weto find, the should change the system itself. amy: said that is 16-year-old greta thunberg. she was 15 at the time. she criticizes the leaders saying they are acting like children. as a child, she is saying the real children should lead. her,you ever heard of magdalena? >> oh, yes, i love her. i talked to my teacher about

her. sometimes at women's history, we can do women and so i made a note to to her. i made a card on it. yeah, i can do her. i think she's really awesome that she shows no matter how young you are, you can make a difference. i just love her. amy: rio? >> how i started was i was sort how humans about have been living on this earth and stuff. emotions into action. greta thunberg was one of the people that inspired me, me and my sister and my mom. we watched a video of her. it really inspired me to take action and use my voice. so that is how we created the

bay area earth garden crew. amy: what is your next step? you confronted senator feinstein. we will see what happens, whether she will ultimately support the green new deal -- probably because of what you did. what are you going to do now? be a youth going to strike -- global climate led by youth, mainly schoolchildren who will be walking out of schools on march 15. calledsite it is that is thclimatatestrike.us.org. you canan go to thahat page andf you want, you cacan particicipae anand use your voice. so promotingng that idea, that s going to be pretty much our next step of action. amy: and the last comments, magdalena? >> i think our next step of

action -- well, for me, i think before this is -- well, now, too, but this is really important to me, is getting people to believe there is climate change. because how are we going to fight for something that some people don't believe in? step forthat is a big me. i also think, like, recognizing indigenous people and people who in their backyard there is fracking and all that. so i think that is a big step to how we can fix this crisis. amy: 10 year old magdalena and her 12-year-old brother rio, youth climate activists who confronted senator dianne feinstein and her san francisco office last week. when we come back, the age of surveillance capitalism. the fight for a human f future t the new frontier of power. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: the california for new drugs. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. facebook planned to spy on android phone users internal emails reveal. that is the headline in computer weekly. you give asked personal, sensitive information and then they tell facebook. that is from the wall street journal. those are just two of the headlines this past week. this comes as a new report in britain calls facebook digigital gangsterers. we end today's show looking at how corporations have created a new kind of marketplace out of our private human experiences. this is the focus of an explosive new book that argues big tech platftforms like facebk and google are elephant poachers and our personal data is their ivory tusks. the book is titled "the age of surveillance capitalism: the fight for a human future at the new frontier of power."

its author shoshana zuboff writes -- "at its core, surveillance capitalism is parasitic and self-referential. it revives karl marx's old image of capitalism as a vampire that feeds on labor, but with an unexpected turn. instead of labor, surveillance capitalism feeds on every aspect of every human's experience." shoshana zuboff is professor emerita at harvard business school. she joins us now for the rest of the hour. welcome to democracy now! great to have you with us. let's start at the beginning. to find surveillance capitalism. >> surveillance capitalism departs in many ways from the history of market capitalism, but in a fundamental way, it is continuous with ththat history. we know that capitalism has evolved but taking things that live outside of the market, bringing them into the market dynamic, transforming them into

commodities that can be sold and purchased. so famously, industrial capitalism claims major for the market, reborn as real estate, as land that can be sold and purchased. it claims work for the market, reborn as labor that can be sold and purchased. surveillance capitalism continues this tradition, but with that dark twist. in our time, surveillance capitalism claims private human experience for the market dynamic as a free source of raw material that has translated into behavioral data. these data are then combined with advanced computational abilities to create predictions -- predictions of what we will do, predictions of our behavior, predictions of what we will do now, soon, and later. and these predictions are then sold to business customers in a

new kind of marketplace that trades exclusively in human futures. this was first invented in the context of online targeted advertising. ad google in 2000 come to that someone, in a teacup financial dot-comy, during the bust. traveled troubled -- only through facebook, but the normal economy into virtual every economic sector. amy: so comment on his last few headlines, just in the last week. for example, the report in britain that calls facebook digital gangsters. >> well, just about a year ago now, we're coming off the one-year anniversary of the cambridge analytica revelations. one of the consequences of those revelations is not only a lot of us all around the world have

been put on alert that all is not well in the digital realm -- that is one thing -- but a second thing is that at least in the u.k., the government has committed very seriously. there is then a parliamentary committee investigating facebook does parliamentarians committee investigating facebook. getting secret documents from facebook that had not been reviewed by the public. and just last week, they issued 108 page report. very powerful, very damming, and among other things, they refer to face with as behaving like digital gangsters because they have understood that facebook has been essentially stealing, in other words, as i have described, illegitimately taking our private human experience for thatroduction processes create these production products, which is what they sell and how they make money. the key thing that i want ourur

viewewers to know is surveillane capitatalism does s not stop at facebook. and right now it is a huhugely positive development that we are looking at f facebook with this kind of scrutiny. and perhaps moving to finally regulate this corporation. but that is the beginning, not the end of our challenge. surveillance capitalism is an economic logic that includes that moves far beyond facebook at this point in time. we are going to need the social response that addresses, interrupts, and outlaws this new economic logic, not just a single company or not just a couple of companies. amy: you write "a global architecture of behavior modification threatens human nature in the 21st century." explain. >> all right, well, once you understand that surveillance capitalism is an economic logic, it is not the same as technology . this is one of the big lies that

has been perpetrated, that these methodologies are the only way digital technology can work, that there is an evitable -- inevitablist propaganda. we have digital technology that we believe would be emancipatory and democratizing, and it still can be. in the last 20 years, it has been overtaken, hijacked by an economic logic is economic and desk and pared its put it on a collision course with democracy, both from below and from above. one of the things that surveillance capitalism learned is that the most powerful predictions of human behavior come from actually intervening in our behavior, touching our behavior to knowledge, to influence, to hurt our behavior towards its commercial outcomes.

and what this has done is made them take hold of the digital the facial recognition, the smart dishwasher, the smart television second the smart car, the smart city -- all of this digital infrastructure now has been taken by surveillance capitalism as a way to know and tunee and hehe our behavior toward its guaranteed outcomes. it does this with subliminal cues. it is a highly scientific process. it does this in ways it brags about are always outside of our awareness so that we have no right of combat. we cannot resist. we cannot say no. and we cannot exit. a globalhat i call needs of behavior modification. where essentially this great digital architecture that we have built in order to be in

emancipatory and life-giviving process for us and h help us in our lives has now become commandeered by surveillance capitalism as a means to modify our behavior toward its commercial ends, which is a direct assault on human otani, a direct assault on our human rights a direct assault on the whole notion of individual sovereignty. back in the 1970's, there is a senate committee that included people like edward kennedy. these folks met for many months. they decided behavior modification was a pernicious action, that it was a complete defiance of democratic principles. and they decided no federal money would fund any kind of program based on behavior modification in prisons, schools, and hospitals. we have just been the last two decades where as democracy slept, the private

sector has been able to command the digital to create literally ubiquitous needs of behavioral modification without anyone saying no and without most of us even noticing or understand what has occurred. amy: and talk aboutherding. you say that tech platforms like facebook and google are elephant personal dataur is ivory tusks. >> well, we have been fed a lot of lies, a lot of euphemism, a lot of misdirection. those are some of the strategies that have allowed surveillance capitalism to succeed. one is the notion that if it is free, you are the product. everybody has heard that cliche. i confront that head on. once you understand that we are

in the regime of economic logic, not of technology itself, it is like going backwards -- we're in wonderland. now we go backwards through the looking glass and we come out in a place called reality where we can start to see clearly. and will we start to see clearly, what we see is, first of all, these services are not free. we think the services are free. but they think we are free. we are there free, raw material. we thihink we are the product, t they understand that we are not the product. we are simply the free source of raw material, like those elephant tusks. everything about us, what our problems are, what are really needs are, what our real concerns are, everything about us is ignored. they have no interest in us. it does not matter if we're happy or sad.

does not matter who doing well or poorly. it only matters that we do these things in ways that they can scrape the experience and turn it into data. there are a few other interesting lies here. we think we are google. google is actually searching us. we think these companies have privacy policies. those policies are actually surveillance policies. we are told if we have nothing to hide, then we're nothing to fear. the fact is, what theyey don't te us and what we are forgetting, that if you have nothing to hide, then you are nothing. because everything about us that makes us our unique identities, that gives us our individual spirits, our personality, our sense of freedom of will, freedom of action, our sense of -- right to our own futures that is what comes from within.

those are our inner resources. that is our private realm. and it is intended to be private for reason because that is how it grows and flourishes and turns us into people who assert autonomy.nymy -- amy: we are talking to professor shoshana zuboff, professor emerita at harvard business school has this remarkable new book "the age of surveillance capitalism." i went your comment on the latest headline, promise investigation of how facebook gathered sensitive personal information from popular smart applications after a report by "the wall street journal," revealed many such outsourcing social media giant data including body weight and menstrual cycles. >> we're living in a time right now where every week there are a series of mini scandals.

this is one of those. there were several and this is one. what happens is we get mobilized scandal.e mini if you understand surveillance capitalism and understand economic imperatives, that it needs always scale, volumes of behavioral data, that it needs scope, varieties of behavioral data, that it needs the kind of behavioral data that comes from actually intervening and influencing our actions as we talked about a moment ago, that all of these mini scandals are utterly auditable as the root -- editable as the routine, humdrum, please pass the salt, everyday operations of any self-respecting surveillance capitalist. these apps "the wall street journal" researched, and i cover this in depth in the book, just about every app you download is

shunting your data to third parties. virtually every app is doing that. when you look at those third amongs, the two goliaths those are facebook and google. are of the sites, the url's owned by facebook and google. so what this means is that you download an app. we use them to help us with our daily lives because we have needs that we need support. no one is really helping us with our lives. certainly, our institutions are not. that help usps with our health, our fitness, keep track of our menstrual cycle am a apps that help us think about our mental health. information,rsonal going into these apps, it does not stop there. all going to third parties,

primarily these goliaths facebook and google. amy: we are finishing up the segment and we will do part two of posted online at democracynow.org, but what surprised you most as you do this research? >> at every stage of this research, there were times i would be sitting in my study -- i worked on this book for seven years. i would be sitting in my study and start screaming, literally, l outcome often annoyed that my beautiful dog, because there were so many revelations for me. i think the biggest one is understanding that we're entering the 21st century now with a new domain of social inequality. we have been focused on economic inequality. it is tremendously important. we now enter the 21st century where private surveillance capital has institutionalized asymmetries of knowledge, unlike anything ever seen in human

history. they know everything about us. we know almost nothing about them. amy: we want to thank you so much, shoshana zuboff professor , emerita at harvard business school and author of the new book "the age of surveillance capitalism: the fight for a human future at the new frontier human future at the new frontier of power."

>> can you imagine the shape of the universe? what if we could see it from above? or from below?