03/14/19 03/14/19 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york this is , democracy now! >> we now see the list of impeachable offenses growing by the day, obstruction of justice, conspiring with a foreign government to violate federal campaign finance laws, giving what's up fort to mrs., misusing the law enforcement agencies to attack political opponents, undermining

freedom of the press. amy: white house beaker nancy pelosi says it is just not worth impeachment proceedings against donald trump many democratic lawmakers disagree. ofwill speak to john bonifaz free speech for people. then we look at restorative justice with danielle sered. >> unless we take on the question of violence because more than half of the people incarcerated in this country are incarcerated for crimes of violence. willhat is also true is we never end of violence unless we take on mass incarceration bebecause mass incarceration not only fails to produce safety, produces more harm. amy: but first, the political crisis in venezuela as the u.s. pulls its embassy staff from caracas. mike pompeo says the diplomats had become a constraint on u.s. policy. does that mean military convention? we will speak to mark weisbrot.

all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. president trump has ordered u.s. airlines to ground all macs 8 and 9 passenger jets in the wake of a devastating plane crash in ethiopia sunday that left 157 people dead. trump's move came as his administration came under mounting pressure to remove the planes from service after safety inspectors said a software glitch was likely behind sunday's crash, as well a as the crasash of a lion n air flight f the same plane type last october that killed 189 9 people in indonesia.a. trump's move came hours after canada became one of the last countries in the world to ground the boeing jets. pres. trump: boeing is an incredible company. they're working very hard right now.

hopefully, they will quickly come up with the answer. but until they do, the planes are grounded. amy: as trump continued to praise the boeing ceo, whom he spoke to several times, trump's order came as the federal aviation administration spent days resisting calls to ground the 737 max jets. the faa hasn't had a permanent top official for over a year, and trump's government shutdown stalled the approval of safety upgradeses, including new softwe that might have prevented sunday's crash. the united states senate approved a war powers resolution wednesday that would end u.s.s. involvement i ithe saudi-i-led r in y yemen, which has killed tes of thohousandsf children and brought half of yemen's 28 million people to the brink of starvation. seven republicans crossed the aisle to join the democratic caucus in wednesday's 54-46 vote on the measure, which requires president trump to cut off military support for the war in yemen unless u.s. troops are directly involved in fighting al

qaeda. this is vermont independent senator bernie sanders, who co-sponsored the resolution with utah republican mikeke lee. >> today is an extremely important day. today we in the senate have the opportunity to take a major stsp forward in ending the horrific war in yemen and alleviating the terrible, terrible suffering being experienced by the people and one of the poorest countries on earth. we today, equally important, can finally begin the process of reasserting congress's responsibility over warmaking. amy: the senate passed a similar war powers resolution on yemen late last year, but it died after then-republican speaker of the house paul ryan refused to bring it to a vote. the new democratic-controlled house is expected to approve the measure, though the white house has signaled president trump

will veto it. the son of a harvard-trained doctor and dual saudi and u.s. citizen is set to appear with lawmakers today to speak out about the torture he says his father is enduring at the hands of saudi arabia. walid fitaihi is a harvard-trained doctor and hospital owner who's been detained by saudi police since late 2017. his son, ahmed fitaihi, says his father has suffered whippings and electric shocks in prison after he was swept up along with 200 other prominent saudis in a mass arrest ordered by crown prince mohammed bin salman. this comes a day after the state department issued its annual human rights report criticizing saudi arabia for the murder of "washington post" journalist jamal khashoggi, while defending continuing u.s. support for the kingdom. secretary of state mike pompeo said -- "the trump administration's policy is to engage with other governments, regardless of their human rights record, if doing so will advance u.s. interests."

the senate is poised to pass a billll today blocking president trump's declaration of a national emergency, which would divert billions of dollars of federal funds to build a wall on the u.s.-mexico border. house lawmakers passed a similar -- at least five republicans are expected to defect on the resolution. house lawmakers passed a similar measure late last month. president trump has vowed to veto the bill, and congress is far from the two-thirds majority needed to override a presidential veto. trump's declaration faces a number of legal challenges and could ultimately be decided by the supreme court. a federal judge in washington, d.c., sentenced president trump's former campaign chair paul manafort wednesday to an additional 43 months in prison on criminal conspiracy charges. the new sentence means manafort

will serve a 7.5 year prison term after he was sentenced last week by a federal judge in virginia on eight counts of bank fraud and tax evasion. moments after manafort received his sentence, manhattan district attorney cy vance, jr., unsealed an indictment charging him with 16 counts of residential mortgage fraud and conspiracy. president trump hasn't ruled out a pardon for his former campaign chair, but trump will not have the power to pardon manafort on the new york charges if he's convicted. in climate news, a new united nations report warns that unless nations act t urgently and immediately on an unprecedentetd scalale, the e ecological foundations of society areret risk of collapse. the rereport by u.n. environnt found d that even if the goals f the paparis climate agreement ae met, winter teeratures ithe aric will rise between 3 degrgrees and 5 dedegrees celsi, or as muchch as 9 degreeees fahrheit, by 20. u.n.n. environment says natiss shouldld immediatelyly shift awy

also feels to renewablenenergy, while e reducing waste and promoting diets less heavy in meat and dairy. in spain, police investigators have linked an attack on north korea's embassy in madrid last month to the u.s. central intelligence agency. on february 22, 10 assailants carrying fake weapons reportedly broke into north korea's embassy, seizing computers and cell phones, tying up diplomatic workers, and placing bags over ththeir heads before beating and interrogating them. after a north korean embassy worker climbed through a second-story window and called for help, the assailants fled at high speed in a pair of stolen vehicles. the spanish newspaper el pais reports at least two of the 10 assailants have been identified as having ties to the cia. the cia has denied any involvement. the raid on the embassy came just days before president trump and north korean leader kim -un that in vietnam on

denuclearization. north korea's former ambassador to spain, kim hyok chol, now serves as a key north korean envoy in nuclear talks with the united states. in brazizil, two g gunmen went a shooting rampage wednesday at a high school in the outskirts of sao paulo, killing eight people before turning their guns on themselves. at least 17 others were injured by gunfire during the assault, which saw panicked students climbing over the school's walls and screaming to neighbors for help. >> they just came out shooting. shooting. they didn't look at anyone. they just started shooting at anyone who is close by. amy: a police investigator said the two attackers, aged 17 and 25, were former students of the high school who were inspired by the 1999 columbine massacre in littleton, colorado. in january, brazil's newly-inaugurated far-right president jair bolsonaro signed a decree making it e easier for people to keep guns at home. in lagagos, nigegeria, at least0 peopople are dead and dozens moe are trtrapped under rubble aftea fourur-story building containina school collapsed wednesday. rescue workers continued to

search for survivors after some 40 students were pulled out from the wreckage. residents had long reported cracks in the building, which was listed for demolition with the legos building control agency. in britain, lawmakers rejected a resolution wednesday that would see the united kingdom exit the european union without a formal agreement -- a so-called "no-deal brexit" -- setting up a vote thursday that could see parliament ask the eu for an extension of brexit's march 29 deadline. joining opposition parties in wednesday's vote were members of prime minister theresa may's own conservative party, adding to speculation that may could soon face another no-confidence vote. parliament's repeated failures to approrove a brexit plan havae fueled calls for a new, second referendum on brexit. back in the united states, the senate has confirmed two more of president trump's nominees to the federal bench. neomi rao will replace supreme court justice brett kavanaugh on the d.c. circuit court of appeals. she's a former law professor and clerk for justice clarence

thomas who's backed by the , arch-conservative federalist society. also confirm this week is paul matey, who previously served as legal counsel to ex-new jersey republican governor chris christie. he'll serve on the u.s. 3rd circuit court in philadelphia. their confirmations mean 1 out of every 5 appeals court judges have been nominated by president trump. the american civil liberties union has obtained documents showing how immigration and customs enforcement has gained access to a vast surveillance database of billions of records on vehicle locations and is using the data to track down undocumented immigrants. the data gathers license plate numbers from red-light and speed limit cameras, tollbooths, parking lot surveillance cameras, and other sources in order to track drivers, with little or no federal oversight. democratic senator ron wyden of oregon has called the program a "massive, for-profit location-tracking database about the worst idea i have ever heard of when it comes to americans' privacy and security."

the federal prosecutors have launched a criminal probe into whether facebook illegally shared the personal data of hundreds of millions of people with some of the world''s larget technology companies. "the newew york times" reports a grand jury in new york has subpoenaed information from at least two prominent makers of smartphones and other devices related to the alleged privacy breach. this comeses as facebook already faces a number of ongoing federal investigations, including a criminal probe intoo how facebook gave personal data from somome 87 million users to the firm cambridge analytica without their knowledge or consent -- d data the compananyd to sway voterso supportt president donald trump during the 2016 campaign. california governor gavin newsom has signed an executive order putting a moratorium on plans to execute more than 700 prisoners on death row. this is governor newsom speaking in sacramento wednesday. >> to line people up to be

executed, premeditated, state-sponsored execution, one a -- that over 14 years is a a choice we c can make ware can make him i think, a more enlightened choice to advance justice in a different way. there was a report that came o t that estimates one out of every 25 people on death rowow is innocent. if that is the case, that means if we move forward executing 700 37 people in california, we will have executed roughly 30 people that are innocent. i don't know about you, i can't sign my name to that. amy: the order r does not abolih the death penalty in california but will ban the practice during newsom's tenure. former texas congressmember beto o'rourke announced today he's running for president in 2020, joining a crowded field of candidates for the democratic nomination. in november, o'rourke drew national headlines when he nearly defeated republican

incumbent senator ted cruz. beto o'rourke is headed to iowa today. the state is home to the first caucus of the 2020 presidential primary season. beto o'rourke has not committed ideas.ort two major rallying outside manhattan where judges overseeing puerto rico's municipal bankruptcy proceedings. the largest such case in u.s. history. the protesters are demanding the judge canceled puerto rico $72 billion debt. this is an activist. >> you have people populating the island because there -- de-populating the island because their pensions are cut in half. if they were to retire tomorrow, they will only receive 42% of their pensions. governmental workers in puerto rico are not eligible for social security, so where does that leave them? there are more than 300 schools

that have been closed in puerto rico. this is nothing short of wall and tactical steps toward extermimination. amy: and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. nermeen: and i'm nermeen shaikh. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. venezuelan officials are saying power will be largely restored by today after a week-long blackout across much of the coununtry. the cause of the blackout remains in dispute. the united states blamed it on years of neglect of the venezuelan energy system, but venezuelan president nicolas maduro accused the united states military of launching a "cyber-attack against the electricical, telecommunication and internet systems." the blackout comes amid a growing political crisis in venezuela as u.s.-backed opposition groups attempt to topple maduro's government. it's been nearly two months since opposition leader juan guaido declared himself to be president with the backing of the united states.

amy: on monday, the united states announced it was withdrawing remaining diplomatic staff from its embassy in caracas. in a statement, secretary of state mike pompeo said diplomatic staff at the embassy has become "a constraint on u.s. policy." pompeo's comment raised questions about whether the u.s. is coming closer to a military intervention in venezuela. meanwhile, the u.s. has also announced new sanctions on venezuela despite a growing humanitarian crisis in the country. the u.s. is also intensifying pressure on other nations, including india, to ststop buyig venezuelan oil. we are joined now by mark weisbrot, co-director of the center for economic and policy research, and president of just foreign policy. his latest piece for the new republic "the reality behind , trump's coalition for regime change in venezuela." why y do you talk about that reality, mark. there is this narrative from our government and also in the media that this is some kind of classist civililization you have onon one side the democratic,

so-called democratic governments and latin america and europe and the other side that was bring up china or russia or turkey saying, authoritarian thernments are supporting government of venezuela. it when you look at this and you see it really is just like the coalition of the willing that george w. bush hadad, 48 countrs that supported his invasion of iraq. and that is really what you have going on herere. it is kind of ironic because you have countries that the united states actually is r responsible for puttining the government there. 20099as, military coup in that brougught the current local party to power. 2017, the president stole the electition, not lilike any other elecection that you u could says unfairir, but in this case, he literally stole it.t.

that wasas the conclusion ofof observerss across the politicicl spectrum. and even the head of the oas, who is fanatically attached to the trump regime changee effort in venezuela, even he said they needed a new election. with the trump administration went alolong with it. then you have brazil, the strongest ally that the u.s. has in this whwhole effort. as you know, this is the far right government that has its own problems of legitimacy with regard to how it got to power through an impmpeachment of dila rousseff, which was not even based on a crime. then the jailing of the most popular politician n in the country who probably could have won the presidency, lula da silva. and preventing him unconstitutionally -- jailing him before the elelection and prpreventing them m from talkino the media. these are e the kindnd of peoplu have. columbia also, which is a takeiei,t thahat president

basicalllly pececked by -- picky your eb ur --ibe. you u have these governments. .s is the coalition of the willing. argentina just got a $50 billion loan from the imfmf. they a lot. close to the trump administration anyway. and then the european governments, they go along with u.s. on latin america in general and have not had -- only occasionally independent foreign-policy from the united states since the end of world war ii. nermeen: could you elaborate what you think the trump administration wants to happen in venezuela? they said explicitly they want maduro out, but what do they want in his place and why are they so avert any kind of negotiated agreement? >> that is very importrtant

because there has to be a negotiated agreement of some kind. it is a polarizedd country. you'u're either gogoing to havea negotiated agreement or civil war, and then you will have a nenegotiated agreemement. they are pushing toward some kind of probably violent regime change. why are theyey doing this? becaususe they want their people in power. it is nonot enough to them you just get a new government t or u haveve an election. owney really want theheir people. that is why -- if you lolook at who theyey chose to leave e thi, juan guaido, he is with a party that has only 14 out of 167 seats in the national assembly. and there are other leaders who would be more favorable toward s, but they pickcked him because hiss party's most hardline and doesn't want to negotiate. they have said that publicly.

even after the pope offered to mediate and governments that are neutral offered to negotiate, guaido and the trump administration sentimentally, the time for negotiating is over and they are not interested in it. so they can get the p people thy want and trump and bolton haveve made public comments about it. accused cuba of being the true imperialist power in venezuela. more.tation is done true imperialist power in venezuela. providen government political cover for maduro and his henchmen so they may stay in power. amy: that is secretary of state mike pompeo. , can you respond

to that and the u.s. pulling out the last diplomatic representatives from venezuela does this sound like preparation for military intervevention? start with cuba. >> well, it is kind of ridiculous. countrytranangling the econonomically? ididle think people e undersnd.. for examample, recognizingng guo is declaring a trade embargo because it meaeans the governmet cannot sell the oil to three quarters of its export markets and get the foreign-exchange the country needs. civilians,ting the the population. not just the sanctions they just imposed in january, but the sanctions they had sinince augut 2017 that have really destroyed the economy and created shortages of food and medicine and prevented the government from doing anything that they

could d do to recoverer from boh the hyperinflation and the depression. i want to emphasize that. people say, , well, the economy was already a wreck before the sanctions. but if you have -- if somebody blockademonia and you their housuse so they can't get medical treatment and they d di, you know, you u would be held criminally responsible for that. it would not be muchch of a defense to say, well, i think they wouldld have dieded anyway. that is basically what you have in the narrarative in the media. theyey almost ignore for more tn a year and a half and even before that because thee restrictions befefore ththat, bt the worst sanctions, the finanancial e embargo started in augugust 2017.7. the media mostly ignores that. and that is what is being used to basasically depririve peoplef fofood and mededicine to destroe economy. that i is the imperial power usg

a power that only the united states has because of itss controrol over the dolollar-basd international financial system. and they are doing that. doing,r the cubans are it is mostly try to help them. amy: and military intervention? >> the military intervention, i think the trtrump administration wants to convince everyone that option is on the table and everything. i don't think -- i think they would rather have venezuelans killing each other then have the itself.olved in the war but, yes, ifif they have the rit pretext, i think they would go in. nermeen: canan you talk about wt kind of resistance there has been in congress to the trump administration's policies on venenezuela, particular florida demomocrats? >> that is another important thing. i am glad you asked that because

there really is a way of ststopping this. the grassroots pressure, for example, you mentioned t the yen vote in ththe senate yesterday,, and that was another historic vote for t the congrgress uses e war powers resolutionn, the firt time in n 45 years the senate hs been using this to demand legagally thahat u.s. pulullouts military involvementnt and its genocidal war. there's a similar bill in the house right now from representative cicilline. people are fighting to get t tht to the floor because the leadership is not t in favor of it. nifty policy, for example, h had to be e essured. signedas a b big petition by national advocacycy groups tt went to nancy i think yesterdrdy ththat saiaid, we wantnt this tt

to the floor of the congress. it says ththere will be no u.s. mililitary intervevention -- military force in venezuela without congressional authorization. of course, that is the law. at the florida delegation doesn't want that. they are proro-reregime changng, pro-war, a number of them are. debbie wasserman schchultz, it will be voted d on today. so what the petition is asking and whwhat the grabs -- - grasss advocacy groups are asking is we don't want those two bills, basically move more toward war and away from a negotiated example, theor wasserman schultz bill sayays te trump administration has to issue a reportrt about venezue's

ties to russia in the security threat supposedly posed by that. this is the kind of stuff you have pushingng back from the flflorida delegation. i wanted to emphasize that. representative -- this is the time to tell them you wantnt this bill against military interventntion to pass. that is how that bill passed the senate and the house andnd now going back to the house onn yemen. was grassroots pressure. it never would've happened without that. amy: the issue of the power shortage that is just beginning to end in venezuela, the complete blackout, maduro has accused guaido and the united states being behind this blackokout. > yeah, well, i think the mot important thing we know for sure about it is the backup generators that could have provided power for a lot of the country, "the new york times"

reported they didid not have ful and otheher things s because ofe u.s. sanctions. --they definitely had sanctions definitely had an impact in the result of that blackout. amy: mark weisbrot, thank you for joining us co-director of , the center for economic and policy research, and president of just foreign policy. we willing to your new piece for the new republic headlined "the reality behind trump's coalition for regime change in venezuela." we will be back on the issue of impeachment in a minute. ♪ [music break]

amamy: a shout out to o today's students from amererican silent which an english high school who are here watching today's broadcast. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. nermeen: democratic lawmakers are continuing to push for the impeachment of president donald trump despite house speaker nancy pelosi speaking out against impeachment in an interview earlier this week. impeachment rumors have been swirling since the democrats regained control of the house in january. but nancncy pelosi told "the washington post" monday she is not planning on launching impeachment proceedings against trump, saying "he's just not worth it" and that it was too divisive. she called trump "ethically and intellectually unfit" for the presidency but said congress would require an overwhelming and bipartisan reason for impeachment. some democratic lawmakers have pushed back on nancy pelosi's comments. saidnal jaipal

congressional investigation should determine the appropriate course of action and evidence of a "consistent pattern of abuse of power or of obstruction of justice would be grounds for impeachment." she did to leap of michigan said she would continue with plans to formally introduce articles of impeachment this month. >> if we don't hold impeachment proceedings today, start them today and hold them accountable, think about that, this is not going to be the last ceo that of unitedresident states. this is not going to be the last person that tries to get away with this. what does that say about the most powerful, most important body -- position in the world? maker that is congressmember rashida tlaib. democratic commerce member al green of t texas said he will ao

bring impepehment proceeeedingso the floor regardless of pelosi's comments. >> it is time for people to decide, arare we goingg to taken bigotry y or are we goining to w it to festster andnd grow? you't eliminate bigotryry by dealing with it in a politically expedient way. you have to take it head on. amy: for more, where joined by john bonifaz. he is an attorney and political activist specializing in constitutional law and voting rights. bonifaz is the co-author with ron fein and ben clements of "the constitution demands it: the case for the impeachment of donald trump." john bonifaz, we have had you on a few times in the last two years. this latest development of the speaker of the house may see pelosi saying now is not the time for impeachment, your response? >> thank you for having me. the president is a d direct and serious threat to our republic. he is almost on a daily b basis

attacking our consnstitution, ,r democracy, the rule of l law, ad he is created a constitutional crisis through t this conduct.t. so f for speaker pelosi to say we're not going to focus on impeachmenent in this crcrisis a rereal advocation of her responsibility -- abdidication f her respononsibilility. the framers placed ththe imimpeachment popower in the constitution precisely to address this kind of constitutional crisisis we face today.y. it is s not a question off waitg for an electioion to deaeal with that crisis when you have e a president threat to the republic, whenen you havee a presidident who so defies s thee of multiple impeachable offenses he is committed, congress must address that crisis now through the impeachment process. nermeen: could you list some of those impeachable offenses, the precise grounds on which trump could be impmpeached? >> yes, the first offense was

when he took the oath of office without divesting fully from his business interests across the world in direct violation of the foreign emoluments clause and domestic emoluments clause, treating the oval office as a profit-making enterprise of the public expense. these anticorruption provisions of constitution were designed to ensure we would not have a president in the oval office would be beholden to foreign interest or play favorites with certain states with business interests in the united states. the second is obstruction of justice. we have seen the firing of james comey when he did not get what he wanted by trying to stop the rush investigation. that is what we have robert mueller as a special counsel investigating this matter. we have seen conspiracy to violate federal campaign finance law with secret hush money payments to influence the 2016 election. federal prosecutors have already named donald trump as individual one, the person who was directing that criminal

conspiracy. abuse to the pardon power by abusing -- hardening former sheriff joe arpaio of mamaricopa county, arizona, when hehe had violated thousands of people's constitutional rights and found in criminal contempt of court for refusing to stop. the undermining of the freedom of the press, the cruel and unconstitutional imprisonment of children and their families at the southern border in violation of the due process rights. in the rights under eight commitment under cruel and unusual irishmen. the funding and building of a wall by declaring emergency -- national emergency of the southern border in violation of the separation powers principle that makes clear that congress and only congress has the power to appropriate money. and here congress had explicitly refused to fund the wall. even that, that last impeachable offense the president has committed raises the question

with the president so dangerous in the oval office, much -- what more will he declare an emergency on? shutting down the internet? engaging in starting a martial law? this is the danger we have with someone in the oval office who so threatens our republic and is precisely why the framers privivate -- placed the impeachment power in the constitution. amy: president trump tweeted wednesday, "i greatly appreciate nancy pelosi's statement against impeachment, but everyone must remember the minor fact that i never did anything wrong, the economy and unemployment are the best ever, military and vets are great -- and many other successes!" have you impeach a man this is why membebers of congressss should get hindnd congresswowoman tlai resolution she will be introducing soonb's

because it will be the way to start an impeachment investigation. what congress is to do is initiate an impeachment inquiry into allll of the impeachable offenses this president has committed.d. congress woman to leave is an american hereroinne.. the responsibility of members of congress in n this moment of crisis to defend our consnstitution and our dememocr, and that is what is required here. we do nonot neeeed traditioional congressionanal oversight. we nd impeachment hearings. nermeen: john bonifaz, is anything to indicate that would be sufficient support in congress to bring ababout impeachment? the grassroots pressure continues to grow all across the country. millions of people have signed petitions demonstrating they want congress to act on this,

and we w will only hear r more m people acrcross the country y ae evidence grows. but reallyly whaisis required de is congress to follow their oath of office and defend our constitution, and for people whh want to get engngaged in demand their membmber of congngress std up, they shoululd join us atat impeachmentprogress.org and join this movement to protect our public. amy: nancy pelosi saying you just don't have thee numbers, we would not do this unless it was bipartisan? do you think she has good cause it to be opposed to impeachment at this moment? >> what is happening here, amy, is speaker pelosi is completely ignoring history. if the bipartitisan requirements had been placed in 1973 before the u.s. house judiciary committee investigating whether or not president richard nixon should face impeachment, there never would have been any impeachment proceedings against

richard nixon. less than 30% in n polling supported impeachmentt proceedings against preresident nick's and at ththat time, yet e housuse judiciary commitittee md proroedings.tarted further, thehere is nono evidene whatsoevever at that timime thae seven senanators wouould vote to convict esident nexen am m a but as time went on, as impeachment hearings went o on come as the nation learned about the abuses of power and abubuse of public trust that president nick's in commititted, theublic came to understand what was at stake. that is s the respsponsibilitytf congress year. if n nancy pelosi is puttiting forward a s standard that would never have been before in 1973, 1974, presidenent nixon never wowould have f faced each h from proceedings.s. the ststandard is are there abus ofowower, use e ofhe pububc trust. the hoe must cry out t responsibility come issue those charges and send those to the senate. amy: john bonifaz,, thank you

for joining us attorney and , political activist specializing in constitutional law and voting rights. he is the co-founder and president of free speech for people, one of the organizations calling for trump's impeachment. when we come back, violence, mass incarceration, and a road to repair. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. nermeen: we end today's show with criminal justice reform and the fight to end mass incarceration. criminal justice reform has gained momentum in recent years, with virtually all 2020 democratic presidential candidates vowing to take on the issue and a number of state laws across the country tackling everything from cash bail to sentencing reform. but these efforts have focused

almost entirely on nonviolent and drug offenses, while sidestepping a problem at the core of what michelle alexander calls america's addiction to incarceration -- violence. a staggering 2.2 million people are locked up in america's sprawling prison system and more than half of those currently confined in state prisons have been convicted of violent crime. in order to cut the prison population in half and transform criminal justice in america, our next guest argues that reformers must reckon with violent crime and come up with radically new ways to address it. danielle sered lays out a path for this transformation in her new unflinching book "until we reckon." sered has spent nearly a decade working directly with people who have committed violent acts and survivors of violence as the executive director of common justice, a brooklyn-based organization that offers alternatives to incarceration for people charged with violent felonies.

her experience anchors her book as she calls for a complete overhaul of the way we've been taught to think about crime, punishment, and justice. she also challenges the notion that prisons keep us safe, revealing instead how incarceration perpetuates the very violence it is meant to curb. amy: danielle sered writes in her new book -- "if incarceration worked to secure safety, we would be the safest nation in all of human history. we would not be a nation where, by the most conservative estimates available, every year nearly 3000 young men of color are murdered before their 25th birthday, more than 57,000 children survive sexual violence, nearly half a million women are beaten in their relationships, nearly three million men are robbed or assaulted, countless transgender people are killed for who they are, where every year we bury our own children gunned down in our own streets." she goes onto write -- "just as we ask people who cause interpersonal violence to reckon

with their actions, so should we asas a society call on ourselves to reckon, too. until we do so, no different future will be possible." danielle sered is the executive director of common justice. it is the first program of its kind in the country. welcome to democracy now! talk about what we must reckon with. >> there is no past -- have to ending it that does not address violence. more than half the people in this country are incarcerated for crimes of violence, but it is also because our national addiction to prison is based on a story about some imagine monstrous other,r, somebodody wo not quite human the way we are from who we have to be protected at any cost. somebodyt image of that has been racialized in this country since are very beginning that animates us to choose prison over schools, prison over

hospitals, prison over basic infrastructure. and until we tackle that central narrative, the possibility of actually ending mass incarceration in our lifetime won't t be within reach. and to what t about the distinction between violent and nonvnviolent crimes? >> i t think -- honestly, it is the people who have advocated for reform that have made a distinction is central. many people who express file and snow their relatives who struggled with addiction and the inside theo getets family barbecue are the same relative. that distinction has been considered politically expedient. the problem is it sets up a barrier to us doing what has to come next. at the other problem is that if you asked crime survivors what types of crimes it was most important that we get right, they would not say petty theft and they would not even say drug possession. they would say crimes of violence. the problem is that prison not only fails to keep them safe, it

actually creates more danger. nermeen: i want to ask how you came to this position. you start your book with a very striking couple of sentences, which i will read. amy: sleeping on a friend's couch, i woke up one night to the sound of the bullets stopping. there was a time once when i would have awakened to them starting, but that was long before, before the level of violence in chicago went through the roof, before the crack epidemic, before mass incarceration." could you talk about how you came to see the importance of the question of violent crime as against nonviolent crime and incarceration? >> absolutely. when i grew up in chicago, i came of age at the same timee mass incarceration really began to gain its foothold in this country. we saw people go away and come home worse for it. i think that is largely because the thing prison targets must squarely is the thing that h hus

most when you suffffer. the system is design in every single way to undermine it. when people came home worse for having been a way, we did not think about it in some abstract notion of recidivism, we experienced it as harm within our own neighborhoods. nermeen: worse in what sense? >> people -- trauma hurts people. isolation hurts people. i am in the business of ending violence. we know the e four core driveres are shame, isolation, exposure to violence, and inability to meet once economic needs. prison are the same. we have baked into our central response to violence in this country precisely the same ins we know generated. it's reliable and doing so. it is why study after study will reduce not only fails to

recidivism, it increases the likelihood that someone will cause both moore and a greater harm going forward. amy: what is the alternative? >> we offer one, which is the real answer to the displacing massacres ration will require many. in common justice, we bring together people who have committed serious violence with the defense of those that it they have harmed in a dialogue. in that process acknowledge the harm done to the survivor, reach agreements about what the responsible person can do to make things as right as possible. if the responsible person fulfills those agreements and continues through our curriculum for the are following that dialogue, they don't go to prison and a felony charges against them are dismissed. in the meantime we work with the survivors of their crimes doubt them come through what happened to them. amy: what is a violence intervention program? what would they go through? >> the core of what they do is mostly consumed by acting on the

agreements, the commitments they made to those they hurt. that may include restitution, community service, getting work, getting clean, talking to other young people in their neighborhood -- any number of things. amy: for example, a rapist? >> we don't work with sexual violence at common justice. we think these processes are inapplicable to them. we understand sexual violence is distinct from the kind of street violence we address. the violence intervention program with us, a part of their work that actually happens in our office, requires people to reflect t on the v values belied expenses and expectations that drove the decision to commit harm in the first place. we don't believe people are trauma machine to take it in and put it back out. violence is a choice people make. given the context in which to actuallyly examine t the underlg drivers of that choice, people can choose to behave differently. nermeen: can you explain if there is any precedents or examples of the kind of resort

of justice that you are advocating? >> restorative justice practices are thousands of years old. therefore older than the core systems that we think they are the innovative intervention to transform. restorative practices have their roots in native communities in this country and other indigenous committed is across the world. since time when communities have dealt with people who belong to them, who are members of their community, who commit acts they know to be wrong, they look for courses of actions that will not only change that behavior but will keep that community whole. there are programs around the country that apply restorative justice to lower-level crimes than those we address that apply restorative justice with younger people in the juvenile system, even with serious crimes,, justice is the first to apply these practices as a diversion from the criminal justice system. but it is anything but new. the criminal justice system is like a little toddler in

comparison. amy: a want to read a quote of , she wrote innder her new york times column -- you use examples in your book.

those are the result michelle alexander. , give us some of the examples. >> think one of the most powerful ones early on, as i said earlier that we only take those into the projects -- it is important remember fewer than half of victims call the police in the first place and another half don't even make it past grand jury, so that means the victims to remain in the system following indictments are the ones with the greatest appetite for incarceration. these are the victims we asked whether or not they want to see the prisoner who hurt them go to prison or come to common justice. earlier in our experience, we were talking to a mother whose 14-year-old son had been robbed and beaten. the young man who cause this harm to him was facing at least three years in prison. i was having a conversation with the mother about whether he should go to prison or common justice. she said to me when this young man first or my child, first i wanted him to burn to death.

and then i wanted him to drown to death. then i realized as a mother, i don't want either of those things. i want them to drown in the river of the fire. she said the truth is, three years from now, my nine year old boy will be 12 and he will be going to and from school, to and from the corner store, to and from his aunt's house alone. and one day he will walk past this young man. i have to ask myself on that day, drove what this young man to? have been upstate or do i want him to have been with you? she said if you are before me today and i have my machete, i would chop into bits, very him under the house, and sleep soundly for the first time since he dared lay hands on my baby. the truth is, i would rather him be with you. i think we have a myth that moving toward some different response to crime requires forgiveness, requires mercy, requires compassion, requires victims to embrace the people who hurt them as though they are their own family, as though they could be brothers.

that is not what it requires. it requires packages him. that mother made a decision to prioritize thehe safety of her children and childreren like him over her emotions. that may or may not be a mother's obligation. it certainly seems approach were enticing safety over the motion is the priority. nermeen: what is your own sense of that? you yourself are a survivor of violence. >> i am a survivor of viololenc. there are very f few things that contribute more to our feeling than the accountability of those who have hurt us. we want to tell them the impact they had on our lives. we want to ask them questions about what they did and why they did it. we want them to fill in the stories the trauma itself makes it difficult for us to remember fully. we want them to make it right in a way we get to help define. and in some ways, most of all, we want them to become someone who won't do that ever again -- not to us or anyone else.

the problem is for every single one of those goals, prison not only does not accomplish it, it precludes it. it separates us. it e encourages denialal rathern admission. it separates people from the ability to repair. it makes it more like it will cause more harm than last. amy: did you find any kind of restorative justice in euros situation? >> i did not. of us don't. that is part of f one of the greatest harms of mass incarceration is in part it teaches us we don't know what to do, that we as people, as committees have no capacity whatsoever to do with harm. we're often left with a choice between the criminal justice system and nothing. even those of us who have critiques of the criminal justice system, then and up with nothing at all. it is our aspiration not only common justice and programs like it expands, but also people who live in community with each

other act on what actually is our inherent capacity and expertise as neighbors and family members to make things right when we have broroken the. amy: the first step act. did they w worsen the situation when it cocomes to dealing with peoplele who committed violent crimes in perpetuating stereotypes? >> something every policy reform is going to be incremental and to your actually passing the abolitionist prison and full reparationss. anything short of that is incremental reform. i don't think rejigging those laws simply because they don't go far enough -- critiquing those laws because they don't go far enough is not the right approach. at the same time, when we make laws or when we pass laws that prevents reform for nonviolent offenses and mobilize a narrative that distinguishes those people from the troop that once, don't lock them up with the one tool make them worse somehow by sheer proximity to their evil -- will we double down on a narrative, we cause enormous harm.

policy is the space of compromise. we are naive to think it is anything other than that. our narrative, our arguments for why we make those changes don't have to be. nermeen: d.c. any indication at crime --ing on violent do you see any indication at all shifting on violent crime? >> in the public discourse, less so. in the movement to end mass incarceration, i think people have either done the reflective work or run the numbers and understand there is no path would a victory without it. at the conversation has always been happening is in communities where violence is prevalent will stop when i said before we gave victims the choice whether not to choose, justice, 90% choose, justice. 90%. it is not mostly because of mercy and compassion, it is because of pragmatism. people who live in everett's work incarceration is common head and paying for its failure since its inception.

the conversation about its failure to produce safety in the appetite to do something different is long-standing anywhere that people live with what it produces. amy: in the last 30 s seconds, e larger societal oblbligation n o address the harm? >> interpersonal harm, we believe people are required to acknowledge what they have done, acknowledge its impact, express genuine remorse, make things as right as possible in a way to find by those harms and become someone who won't do that ever again. as a nation, we have caused extraordinary harm through incarceration to the people we have locked up, to the families, to the community members and weaponize the pain of victims. you to're going to ask hold that thought and continue with part 2 our discussion and we will post it online at democracynow.org. danielle sered is executive director of common justice, and author of "until we reckon: violence, mass incarceration and a road to repair."

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