03/25/19 03/25/19 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from pacifica, this is democracy now! pres. trump: it was just announced there was no collusion with russia. the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard. there was no collusion with russia. amy: no collusion. no more indictments. no obstruction of justice. as special counsel robert mueller ends his 22-month probe, democrats are calling on attorney general william barr to make public the full mueller

report, while criticizing barr for quickly deciding not to charge trump with obstruction of justice. >> the president has not been exonerated by the special counsel, yet the attorney general has decided not to go sureer were up fairly to those findings with the public. -- apparently to assure those findings with the public. amy: we will host a debate between two pulitzer prize winning journalists, the intercept's glenn greenwald, who has been one of the country's most prominent russiagate sceptics, and david cay johnston, author of "it's even worse than you think: what the trump administration is doing to america." all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. special counsel robert mueller has ended his 22 month p probe concluding president trump and

his aides did not conspire or coordinate with russia i in ordr to influence the 2016 elelectio. has yet toull report be made public, attorney general william barr sent a four page letter to congressional leaders sunday laying out his interpretation of the findings. trumpr examine whether could be criminally charged for obstructing justice, but he did not come to a definitive conclusion. barr said "while this report does not conclude the president committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him." in his letter barr, who became attorney general just last month, announced that he and deputy attorney general rod rosenstein had concluded there is not sufficient evidence to "establish that the president committed an obstruction-of-justice offense." president trump responded to barr's letter by tweeting "no collusion, no obstruction, complete and total exoneration. keep america great!"

democratic leaders on capitol hill are calling on attorney general barr to release the full mueller report as well as underlying documentation. many democrats criticized barr for taking just 48 hours to conclude trump had not committed obstruction of justice. this is new york congressman jerrold nadler, the chair of the house judiciary committee. >> attorney general barr, who auditioned for his role with an open memorandum suggesting the obstruction investigation was unconscionable and that a president -- and it was honest impossible for any president to commit obstruction of justice since he is the head of the executive branch, made a decision of that evidence and under 48 hours. his conclusions raise more questions than the answer given the fact that mueller uncovered evidence that in his own words, does not exonerate the president. amy: trump and his associate still face a number of

investigations, including ones led by the u.s. attorney's office in the southern district of new york, the attorney general of new york, and congressional demomocrats. we'll have more on the mueller report after headlines with journalists glenn greenwald and david cay johnston. the death toll from the catastrophic cyclone idadai has surpassed 75750 people across mozambiqueue, zimbabwewe, and malawi. over 100,000 people are now living in camps for the displaced, 10 days after the cyclone made landfall. as rescue efforts continue in the southeastern african nations, officials are warning of cholera and malaria outbreaks. the u.n. says that nearly half of the 1.7 million people affected by idai are children. in britain, an estimated one million demonstrators filled the streets of london saturday, calling for a new referendum on brexit. the fate of britain's exit from the european union remains in the balance days after eu officials agreed to delay it at

least until april 12, while prime minister theresa may attempts to convince lawmakers to approve a deal. political leaders addressed crowds at saturday's protest. this is london mayor sadiq khan. >> the british people did not vote for the government to gamble on our future. you did not vote for the national nightmare we have. it is time to view us, the british people, a final say on brexit. amy: in france, yellow vest protesters took to the streets for the 19th straight week of anti-government demonstrations, days after the french authorities announced a clampdown on the movement, including banning marching on the champs elysees and other areas and the deployment of military forces. the yellow vests have called out french president emanuel macron's pro-business economic policies and are calling for fair wages for working and middle class citizens, and heavier taxation on the wealthy.

this is a demonstrator from paris at saturday's protest. us,acron does nothing for first people. he is against his people. he p prioritizes everyone else, not the french p people, even those e who are working -- amy: over 200 arrests were reported across france ovover te weekend, along with some clashes between police and protesters. in thailand, voters took to thee polls sunday, in the country's firsrst election since a 2014 4p put a military junta in power. the pro-military p palang pracacharat party was ahead by a narrow lead with 94% of the tes counted. two competing political parties have raised doubts about the results, citing irregularities. pheu thai,i, the partyty of exid former prime minister thaksin shinawatatra, said it will try o form a aovernment evenen if it loses the popular vote by building a coalition with other parties. thailandnd's government runs ona parliamentary system.

final results from the vote are not expected until later this week. in gaza, mourners buried three palestinians killed during weekend protests. habib al-masri was shot at a protest against the israeli army saturday and later died of his wounds. nidal shatat and jihad harara were shot and killed at friday's great march of return protest, while at least 60 others were injured. this week's protests will mark one year since the start of the great march of return on march 3030, 2018. over 250 palestinians have been killed since the start of the protest, according to local reports, and thousands more injured. meanwhile, israeli air raids struck parts of gaza sunday, including a refugee camp, causing damage but no reported deaths. israeli authorities reported rockets fired from gaza struruca homeme in israel monday,y, injug at least seven peoplple. they said a mass is responsible

for the attack, but the group is not crammed responsibility. israeli prime minister benjamin netanynyahu said he willll cut t his trip to washington, d.c., and fly back after a meeting with president trump sometime today. he said israel will respond forcefully. netanyahu had been scheduled to speak at the annual policy conference of the american israel public affairs committee, or aipac, on tuesday. in somalia, at least 15 people have died after a gun battle bebetween security forces and al-shabaab militants at an official government building in the capital mogadishu saturday. the al-shabaab fighters detonated a car bomb outside the building before storming the ministries of labour and works. among the dead was the deputy minister of labor and social affairs saqar ibrahim abdalla. in the west african nation of mali, the united nations said armed men killed at least 134 people from a fulani community saturday. tensions and violence between fulani and dogon communities

have been on the rise. in human rights watch said december, "militia killings of civilians in central and northern mali are spiralling out -- spiraling out of control." the government has since banned the dogon hunting militia that is believed to be responsible for this latest attack. in afghanistan, an airstrike killed at least 14 civilians on saturday in northern kunduz province, according to afghan officials. four afghan soldiers were also killed in the attack. the u.s. blamed the attack on the taliban. on friday, two u.s. special forces and afghan special forces four fighters were killed in a joint operation inin the same region. in a separate incident in southern helmand province, four people were killed and 30 people injured by taliban bombs, according to local officials. at least 40 afghan security force personnel are believed to have been killed in a taliban attack in the region last week. the deaths come as the u.s. is in the midst of ongoing peace talks with the taliban. the u.s.-backed syrian democratic forces said saturday

that the last territorial stronghold of the islamic state had fallen. sdf forces has been battling isis fighters in the border town of baghouz for several weeks before the announced defeat. the u.s. hailed the announcement, with secretary of state mike pompeo adding the u.s. mission was ongoing. he said -- "our mission there hasn't changed. we still have to work to do to make sure radical islamic terrorism doesn't continue to grow." back in the u.s., a white former police officer charged with killing unarmed african-american teenager antwon rose in east pittsburgh last year was acquitted friday. video of the june 19 shooting shows officer michael rosfeld shot rose in the back while the teenager was trying to flee a traffic stop. rosfeld had been sworn in to the city's police department just three hours before the shooting. at a vigil sunday, rose's mother michelle kenney said she would continue to fight for r justice for her r son.

>> the problem isns't the inindividual. if wee rewrite the law, that all individuals s have to abide by . that is where we h have to start at. me.it i not o over for i haveve a long fight t ahead om a a long fight. we have toewrite the lawaw. ,nd one way oror the other michael rosfeld asked as for what he did. amy: president trump appeared to undermine his own a administration friday when he announced he is withdrawing new sanctions on north korea. he tweeted -- "it was announced today by the u.s. treasury large-scale sanctions would be added to those already existing sanctions a north korea. i have today ordered the withdrawal of those additional sanctions!" it likely refers to still unconfirmed d future s sanctions accordrding to admininistratitin officials as no new sanctions against north korea were announced friday. white house press secretary sarah huckabee sanders did not clear of the conclusion, but indicated trump made the

announcement because "president trump likes chairman kim." last month, the second summit between the two leaders broke down without any progress made toward a denuclearization deal. a student who survived last year's shooting massacre at marjory stoneman douglas high school in parkland, florida, died by suicide according to saturday local authorities. the unnamed student is the second survivor to die by susuicide in a week after 19-yer old sydney aiello's death last weekend. sydney aiello suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder and survivor's guilt, according to her mother. 17 students, staff, and teachers were killed in parkland on february 14, 2018, in one of the deadliest school shootings in u.s. history. david hogg, a parkrkland massace survivor and gun control activist tweeted sunday -- , "how many more kids have to be taken from us as a result of suicide for the government/school district to do anything? rip 17+2."

you can reach the national suicide prevention lifeline at 1-800-273-8255. supporters of u.s. army whistleblower r chelsea manning say she has been held in solitary confinement since being sent back to prison on march 8 after refusing to answer questions before a grand jury friday. manning had been subpoenaed by federal prosecutors in virginia's eastern district for questioning over her 2010 release to wikileaks of hundreds of thousands of state department and pentagon documents about the u.s. wars in iraq and afghanistan. she was imprisoned from 2010 to 2017 for the leak. during this time, manning was also held in solitary confinement, which she described as a "practice that needs to be ended everywhere. nothing justifies doing this to any human being."

the u.s. district judge in virginia overseeing the case said manning would remain in jail until either she agrees to testify or the grand jurury concludes its work. and a group of over 500 cities, counties, and native american tribes filed a lawsuit against members of the sackler family for their role in creating "the worst drug crisis in american history" by lying about the dangerers of the opioid papainkr oxycontin and deceitful marketing of the drug. the lawsuit, filed last week in the southern district of new york, names eight members of the sackler family -- which founded and own purdue pharma -- the maker of oxycontin -- differentiating the case from other lawsuits, which have targeted purdue and other drug companies. government data found that deadly opioid overdoses are responsible for nearly 50,000 deaths per year in the united states. and those are some of the headlilines. this is democracy now!,

democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. no collusion. that is the key finding of special counsel robert mueller's long-awaited report into whether president trump and members of his campaign conspired with the russian governrnment to win the 2016 election. while the full report on mueller's 22-month investigation has not yet been made public, attorney general william barr sent a four-page letter to congressional leaders on sunday laying out his interpretation of mueller's findings. barr wrote that the report concluded russia meddled in the 2016 election, but that -- "the special counsel's investigation did not find that the trump campaign or anyone associated with it conspired or coordinated with russia in its efforts." mueller also examined whether trump could be criminally charged for obstructing justice but he did not come to a definitive conclusion. barr quoted a passage from the mueller report saying --

"while this report does not conclude that the president committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him." in his letter barr, who became , attorney general just last month, announced that he and deputy attorney general rod rosenstein had concluded there is not enough sufficient evidence to "establish that the president committed an obstruction-of-justice offense." president trump responded to barr's letter by tweeting - -- "no collusion, no obstruction, complete and total exoneration. keep america great!" trump later briefly spoke to the press. trtroncoso after a long look, ,fter a long investigation after so many people have been so badly hurt after not looking where a lot ofde

bad things happen, a lot t of horrible things happen, very bad things happen for our country, it was just announced there was no collusion with russia, the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard. there was no collusion with russia. there was no obstruction and none whatsoever. and it was a complete and total exoneration. amy: democratic leaders on capitol hill are calling on attorney general robert barr to release the full mueller report as well as underlying documentation. many democrats criticized barr for taking just 48 hours to conclude trump had not committed obstruction of justice. this is new york congressman jerrold nadler, the chair of the house judiciary committee. >> first, president trump is wrong. this report does not amount to a so-called total exoneration. special counsel mueller was

clear his report "does not exonerate" the president. the special counsel spent 22 months uncovering evidence of obstruction and other misconduct. attorney general barr, who auditioned for his role with an open memorandum suggesting the obstruction investigation was unconscionable and that a president -- and that it was a most impossible for any president to commit obstruction of justice since he is the head of the executive branch, made a decision about that evidence in under 48 hours. his conclusions raise more questions than they answer given the fact that mueller uncovered evidence that in his own words does not exonerate the president. it is unconscionable that president trump would try to spend the special counsel's findings as if his conduct was remotely acceptable.

amy: in his report, special counsel robert mueller also recommended d no further indictment in the russia investigation. over the past 22 months, mueller secured seven guilty pleas or convictions of trump associates including his former campaign manager paul manafort, former national security advisor mike flynn, and trump's former personal attorney michael cohen. mueller also indicted 13 russiansns tied to the i internt researarch agency for meddling n the 202016 election and 12 russn military intelligence officers for allegedly hacking into the computer systems of the democratic national committee and the clinton presidential campaign. while the mueller probe is now over, trump and his associates still face a number of investigations, including ones led by the u.s. attorneys office in the southern district of new york, the attorney general of new york, and congressional democrats. to talk more about the mueller report, we will be joined by two

to pulitzer prize-winning journalists, glenn greenwald as well as david cay johnston. we will be back with thehem in a minute. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. to talk momore about the mueller report, we are joined by two guests. glenn greenwald is a pulitzer prize-winning journalist and one of the founding editors of the intercept. as one of the most prominent skeptics of the russia gay probe he is speaking to us from brazil. david cay johnston is a pulitzer prize-winning investigative reporter previously with the new york times, now founder and editor of dcreport.org. he has been reporting on donald trump since the 1980's. his most recent book is titled "it's even worse than you think: what the trump administration is doing to america." we welelcome you both to democry now!

let's begin with david cay johnston in new york. your response to the mueller and william barr's summary to what he found? >> we don't know what is in the mueller report. we only know the brief interpretation offered by bill barr, but it opens a whole new cans of warm -- worms. the standard should not be beyond a reasonable doubt. that is criminal. the standard is c constitutional requirement switch his faithful execution of office and high crimes and misdemeanors, which does not require any criminal .ffense we need to see the full report. we need to have mueller's testimony. we need to know what it was that mueller learned about such matters as jared kushner asking to use secret russian diplomatic can medications gear to contact

the kremlin without the knowledge of american intelligence, something the russians made available to us the way they transmitted a cable knowing it would be read byy intelligencece agencies. we need to know why don jr., who said leavitt and offered help by the kremlin was not question or indicted. most likely because his lawyers said he would take the fifth amendment. but why was he not charged? he we need to know about why did not call fbi counterintelligence, which is the only thing any decent and patriotic american would do when given an offer by foreign government t to interfere in our election. and there's a lot more we need to know. we need to see the report in full. we need to hear mueller's testimony about it, not just bill barr's interpretation of it, especially given that barr sought this jar of desktop and has positioned himself as someone who believes essentially the president virtually cannot

wasit a crime that certainly not obstruction of justice. amy: glenn greenwald, your response? this is the saddest media spectacle i've ever seen since i began practicing journalism in 2005. and what makes it even sadder is to watch all of the people who invested their realistic credibility into approved to be a complete and total fraud and scam continue to try to cling to some vestige of credibility by continuing to spin conspiracy theories that are even more reckless and more unhinged than the ones to which we have been subjected for three years. the great journalist and writer matt taibbi wrote an article over the weekend and i agree that as humiliating as the media debacle was leading up to the iraq war, what they did over the last three years in the trump-russia story makes all of that look like a couple. even though i was the, the iraq war was much more distracted because it led to the death of

hundreds of thousands of people, the errors and lies and falsehoods and recklessness and speculation that we have been subjected to over and over and over that robert mueller just definitively debunked is far more humiliaiating journalistically, far more unjustifiably journalistically -- who knows where he will lead to? it is right suited up to just would are the two most dangerous nuclear armed powers in the world, russia and the u.s. to two minutesus before midnight on the doomsday clock. it has also been extremely dangerous in ways we don't yet know. let me say two things. number one, everybody knows -- i don't care how many people try to rewrite history -- the central question that everybody was obsessed with for three years was to donald trump, his family members, and his aides, conspire and collaborate and collude with the russians to interfere in the election? contrary to what david just

said, it is absolutely false robert mueller simply said there's not enough evidence to convict with a reasonable doubt. he said something much, much, much more important than that. he said that after 20 months of investigation, with the huge team of fbi agents and prosecutors heralded as being the most aggressive and skilled in the world, we found no evidence that this happened. that is what robert t mueller said. the whole thing was a scam and a fraud from the beginning. "the new york times" headline today says that as clearly as it can come "robert mueller finds no collusion between trump and russia." that was the focal point of the entire narrative, no matter how much people try and change the focus. the second point, this idea that, oh, we have not heard from robert mueller yet come only summary of him. that is true, but bill barr has been friends with robert mueller for 30 years. they come from the same republican circles, the

department of justice, both work together at the bush justice department, the bush 41 justice department. all we heard for 20 months is that robert mueller is a man of the greatest integrity and patriotism. very idea -- think about this. that he would allow bill barr to run around making false and misleading distortions about what the mueller team found and not one person on the mueller team, including robert mueller himself, would stand up and say, wait a minute, he is distorting what our findings was -- that is laughable. that is exactly the kind of conspiracy theories that led to this entire mess in the first place, and we should no longer tolerate this. ritual maddow and msnbc or the judy miller's of the story, unlike judy miller who was scapegoated for doing things her male colleague did and had her career destroyed, rachel maddow will continue to make 10 lanes of dollars because she is the most viable grant for msnbc in

the will be no reckoning and consequencnces for the story the media got radically, fundamentally, and elaborately wrong from his three years. amy: davidid cay johnston? >> well, you notice glenn greenwald is not dispute what our r what are established facts. we know russians offered to help the trump campaign. we have the enough is proving that. and we know don jr. was not interviewed. we know as a matter of fact, unless the russians fabricated the cable, that jared kushner sought to use the communications year of the russian diplomats and that they put their cable out of the way knowing it would be intercepted. and we know, angry glenn were not dispute, the russisians tryo inteterfere in our elelections. all of these facts are fundamental to what matters here. the issue that matters is this

began as a counterintelligence investigation, not a criminal investigation. and i don't think bob barr has -- i think the as wit summer does not give the full picture. he quoted the only place -- the only place he quoted the mueller report as it did not exonerate donald trump on the issue of obstruction of justice. we need to see the report. we can't draw the kind of conclusions s that glenn is dran without seeing the documents. there is a lot of gray area here. and the standard for the conduct of the president is not the standard of criminal liability. point, donald, who studied at the foot of cohen before grand jury investigations, he escaped scrutiny for h h role in the international drug trafficking

of just the books of him, whom he wrote a letter sang he was a standup guy and should not be punished and engaged in behavior that may no sense unless the two of them were in the business together. trump has a long and thoroughly documented history of lying, filing for reports, of cheating on his taxes them having been tried twice for income tax fraud and lost both of those cases -- they were civil, but lost them. i don't think you can draw the conclusions glenn has drawn without seeing me mueller report in full. amy: david cay johnston, you have an exposing donald trump for decades. is it possible what donald trump is guilty of is corruption, not collusion? i don't think glenn greenwald is an donald trump is innocent in all areas, but he is saying of this investigation, of these charges, he is.. >> i personally have never once said or suggested that this is a

criminal issue that shshould be treated as a criminal matter. i disagree with the justice department's memoranda, as to a lot of people who study and write about like i do teach our constitution. but that is the broader issue here. what was the level of conduct? we knonow donald trump invited e russians to interfere in our election. so what did mueller find? let's understand what he found. rise to levelevel t of a crime -- one of the key questions i want to know, did don jr., did jared kushner, and an donald trump's lawyers say that if questioned, they would take the fifth amendment? we all have the fit the mimic right not to incriminate ourselves, but it would be untenable for the sitting president of the united states take the fifth amendment. he would be a unique case.

he in the vice president of the fifth amendment were put forward. amy: glenn greenwald? prior to bobll, mueller's appointed, those calling for full skill investigation in which all of the facts of the conclusion of the investigation would be publicly revealed so that we would stop having to rely on and theaks that the cia nsa and the fbi were engineering to manipulate and lying to us as we now know so that we could see the full picture. so i continue to believe that we should see the full mueller report. i support that completely. secondly, let me say i believe donald trump is one of the most -- people to occupy the white house. i'm certain he is guilty of all crimesf crimes -- were as president, financial crimes as a business person. one of the reasons we were so angry about this obsession on russia and collusion, aside from the fact it was so dangerous to

ratchet up tensions between two nuclear armed powers this way instead of forge a peace b betwn these two countrtries, is precisely because it took the oxygen away from all of thee things that the trump administration is doing that is so damaging in lieu of this , tomic, moronic clancy-type sb national or where we were talking about putin blackmailing donald trump with tapes and donald trump being a russian agent since 1987, which was a cover story on "new york magazine" that chris hayes put on msnbc. just all kinds of moronic conspiracies that we love to mock other countries medias for circulating and disseminating, drown out our airwaves a didiscourse for three years, preventing us from focusing on the real substantive damage that the trump administration is doing and that donald trump's corruption entails. but the reality is, the media

chose to focus on this. everybody knows this. david cay johnston was on your show a week ago, and he said donald trump, i believe is a russian agent. we now have a full scale 20 month investigation by somebody that everybody agreed was a man of great integrity and would get to the bottom of all of this, who have full subpoena power. and david keeps tried to imply, which is totally false, that all that mueller said was, oh, just does not rise to the level of criminality. that is not what he said. he said, after 20 months of a full-scale investigation -- which, by the way, included hours of interrogating donald trump, jr. before congress -- all of the transcripts were made don jr. couldh have been charged with. after reviewing all of this evidence, he says i am concluding that this did not happen.

not that it doesn't rise to the level where i can criminally prosecuted, he is saying there was no collusion. they game is over and it is time to be honest about it. and the more we try to cling to this and infant -- do you know what it reminds me of? in 2003 when the neocons had to finally face the truth that , that the no wmd's media had misled millions of people around the world for years and they started saying, maybe saddam hid them in syria. maybe they are buried in places we just have not looked yet. it is time to face the truth. the media got this story wrong. they access on this for three years, and all of this time there was no evidence for. it was just a conspiracy theory. rachel maddow is one of the most influential tv hosts in the country. every single night misled millions of liberals into believing something that was totally false and will be no media consequences for it. no that is extremely grave

matter how much is true about how corrupt donald trump is in his financial dealings or any of the other stuff that people are now trying to deflect our attention on two. amy: glenn greenwald, i will you to imagine for a moment of this investigation did not happen for the last three years -- or whether did, but the press did not pay much attention until mueller came up with his results as he has now. what the press could have been doing. you alluded to it in the last answer, dealing with issues, for example, moving into the 2020 presidential election now. coming out of the defeat of hillary clinton. what could the media have done if it wasn't saying it was simply stolen from her, but exactly what the policies the democrats were representing that might have led to her defeat? >> right. that is the question. why did millions of people vote for a complete joke of a game show host and how did the

democrats lose the presidency to one of the most embarrassing spectacles of a candidate in u.s. history? what is the prevailing ideology of the ruling class that has turned millions and millions of people into this country into such angry citizens that they either refused to vote or vote for the person who promises to bring down the entire system? why are they so angry? what has happened to the economic security? what ideology and group of people are responsible for that? what has donald trump been doing and realigning the u.s. away from the western europe and to saudi desk bits? and the collusion that acactualy happened, which was from the israeli government during the election in order to undermine obama's policies? all of those kinds of questions couould have beenen asked and should have ben asked but it all got drowned out because we were also much more fascinated by this superficial kind of very appealing and melodramatic espionage thriller

that has completely destroyed the crededility of t the u.s. media as a tragically vindicated donald trump in a way ththat probably is the greatest gift that has been given to him throughout his entire presidency. amy: david cay johnston, you can generally raised over the last years ofof the trump administration and the decades before, the corruption of donald trump. now't you concerned now that he has been, in his own words, exonerated, although mueller did not exactly say that when it came to obstruction of justice, but when it came to collusion he absolutely exonerated him. that the issues you have raised be able to, you will be taken seriously about them because donald trump will move forward with new moral force because he says he is been victimized for the last few years, since he became president, by this investigation by man he claimeded to have hatd

who ultimately vindicated him. amy.ll, indeed, i suspecect one has not read my books. my trilogy on the american explains why men like donald trumpmp could rise becaue of government policies nobody knew about until i spent years putting them out, showing how we are picking the pockets of american citizens and transferring money upward to other people. even people that understand that note economics today or worse than in the 1960's. i was in the vanguard of explaining those things. my two books on donald trump solyndra stuffing about russia. in particular, the most recent book is about not what donald trump is doing to our government and what doeses dcreport? .ostly volunteer projects it is about what he is doing to our government. we havave done very little

reporting about the russians other than things like wilbur ross' deep involvement with the corrupt the ink of cyprus. other than that, it is been about what the interior department is doing, what other government agencies are doing. complaint, are arguably have a good marriage, but they do not apply to me by any stretch. i'm never said that donald trump is an agent. i said he is an asset. if i said "agent" i should not have. i said with the old soviet will call a useful idiot. he has advanced their cause. he called in the campaign for breaking of nato. that is a putin item. he says he trusts vladimir putin and not the american intelligence agency. those things should deeply disturb us. if the mueller report, when we sit, shows this is all mararket, have me on an all say "i got it totally wrong." i go wherever the facts go. idle think eveverything is been

totally discredited. i notice glenn's focuses on one cable tv show -- by the way, i think of it on once s since dond trump selection when i got the tax return of donald trump from 2005. i don't appear on her show otherwise. i think final mentally when you to focus on the real economic issues. donald trump wants to make health care in america worse. in it wasfulfilled promises. there's no infrastructure bill. there's this focus on the wall with mexico, which is never going to be built sincerely not paid for by the mexicans. he has heard violence against people of color and people whose religions he does that like. and he is utterly and completely unfit to hold office. he is in the classic meaning of "idiot" whichrd means someone who only cares about himself and has no regard

for the society around him. amy: david, last week you did say "russian agent." are you saying you misspoke? >> i should have said asset. that is a misstatement by me. asset t is the term i use. i believe you can unwittingly be an asset and i believe donald trump is a russian asset. i think the kindest t thing you could say about donald trump is he has divided loyalties between the united states of america and the kremlin based on his own public statements, his secret meetings with vladimir putin, his destruction of notes, not thinking other people does not letting other people into those meetings. that alone makes him unfit under our constitution because it means he cannot and is not faithfully executing his office. amy: to be exact, he said kremlin agent, but you're saying you should have said kremlin asset? >> yes. on average, every day in

2018, cnn, fox news, msnbc devoted 3% of their news coverage, not county commercials and non-news programming, to the robert mueller investigation. upon hindsight, david cay johnston, do you think the corporate media was wrong and should have focused on some of the issues that glenn greenwalad has just laid out? >> absolutely. i think we should have focused much more on the donald trump not fulfilling his promises. clearly, there's a limited audience for that. we're covering governance at dcreport. we are broken on a budget of , $6,000 on stores other people i've picked up about what is being done to our government. but our audience compared other .laces, we are tiny pipsqueak's it is unfortunate that most americans, not onlyy don't know what is in the constitution, but they also really don't care about governance. they do care about pocketbook issues and the influence trump

is having on health care, the expansion of pollution, the coziness with oil companies and -- that should all be big news. there's almost a reporting about what i thought was one of the most illicit scandals of this year, when all of the national parks and monuments were shot down during the government shutdown, one place remained open with a ranger -- the clock tower atop the trump hotel and washington, d.c. it was exemplary. nothing is better illustrates donald trump's complete corruption and abuse of power. amy: do you think that bothth congress and also the other investigatory bodies like the new york attorney general, southern district in new york, etc., are going to continue investigating him now that, you know, he is saying he has been victimized since it became

president on charges that were found to be completely unfounded? >> well, i think congress is going to continue to press for answers and is to the full mueller report. there are all sorts of other issues beyond this that need to be thoroughl investigative. i then pressing that we need to be understanding what trump is doing to corrupt our government and damage our constitution. yes, i expect those to go forward. we also need to remember that donald trump is a man whose express right within the period of the campaign shows that crime pays. he ripped out people with trump university for $40 million. he did not pay any penalty. he only had d to return $25 million of the $40 million. donald trump's life experience is crime pays. he is -- he owns the only casino in which there is a known case

of cheating customers in atlantic city was at trump's castle. we need to recognize we have a man in the white house who is a third-generation the white collar crime family. i also think firmly that we nend to understand d his relationship and his attitude and treatment regarding the kremlin, which is a hostile foreign power that was attacking our elections muellll. mueller's r rort says t they wee attacking our election. thatd trump encouraged attack. that should disturb us deeply. amy: glenn greenwald, , before e get a break and then come back, respond to what david cay and fromand also this alert year,r,om july of last they p put out an alert s statig "action alert. it is been over a year since msnbc has mentioned u.s. war in yemen." the tragedy ofs

everything that just happen. david and i have known each other for many years and have respect for each other's work. i will be presumptive enough to say i have respect for his. part of the reason why a this whole thing so tragic is because all of the things he just named that do deserve attention have received none because completely drowning out all of that has been this that are fairytale. let me say one thing about this idea that he is a kremlin asset or that we need to find out what his relationship is with the russians. we just had a 22 month investigation with immediate and bob mueller did nothing but look into that exact question. he is saying it like nobody is ever asked this before. we have the answer. as for h him being a rusussian asset, it is so irresponsible to say that because the reality is, the conflict between the u.s. and the russians are at a worse and higher level than they have -- probably years decades. how can you say donald trump is

a stooge of the kremlin when he is right now trying to remove one of vladimir putin's resume states and venezuela or trtrying to bully angela merkel out of time rusussian natural gas, probably the thing most important to the russian economy? or when he sold lelethal arms to ththe recruit -- ukrainians, something obama refuse to do on the grounds it would be provocative to russia? client he bombed putin'a state in syria? over and over, the trump administration has taken actions far more adverse and aggressive ambler during -- belligerent than the obama administration did. that is why this whole narrative that trunk all along was being blackmailed by putin, that he is an acid of russian intelligence -- this is idiocy. it is completely irrational. it is contrary to all facts. ,nd bob mueller's investigation

who spent 22 months examining the core question, what is the relationship between trump and the russians, concluluded that there is no relationship. it is time to stop these dangerous conspiracy theories that are ratcheting up tensions between the two most dangerous countries on the planet. the reality is, the trump administration has beenn constantly belligerent putinin , has constantly acted adverse to the kremlin's interest, and there zero basis for thinking or believing or finding evidence to isert that trump in any way bold and the vladimir putin and to russia. the whole thing is been a joke and a fairytale from the start. amy: we're going to go to break and come back to this discussion. glenn greenwald, pulitzer prize-winning journalist and one of the founding editors of the intercept. david cay johnston, pulitzer prize-winning investigative reporter previously with "the new york times," now founder and editor of dcreport.org. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman.

by glenn greenwald and dedicate johnston, two pulitzer prize-winning journalist as we look at the results of the 22 month investigation by special counsel mueller. i want to continue to turn to noam chomsky when he appeared on democracy now! last august. >> so it takes the huge issue of the interference and are pristine elections has been the russians interfere in our elections, an issue of overwhelming concern in the media. i mean, in most of the world, it is a must a joke will stop first of all, if y you're interested n foreign interference in our elections, whatever the russians , barely counts the ways in the balance as compared with another state does openly, brazenly, and with the normal

susupport. u.s.li intervention in elections vastly overwhelms anything the russians may have done. i mean, even to the point where the prime minister of israel, netanyahu, goes directly to congress without even informing -- and forming president and speaks to congress with overwhelming applause to try to undermine the president's policies. what happen with obama and netanyahu in 2015. amy: that is semi to professor emeritus noam chomsky, well-known dissident, writer o f over 100 books. glenn greenwald, can you respond? >> well, that has been the other critical point this entire time overis kind of melodrama the outrage that any country

would dare to interfere in our secret and glorious democracy when, as noam chomsky just pointed out and has been the last 40 years pointing out, the united states has done very little since the end of world war ii the going around the world and interfering and every single democracy that they can find, literally, including the country in which i am currently living, which is brazil, were they overthrew a democratically elected government in 1964 proceeded to impose a military regime or 21 years. and also russia, were they openly boasted about helping to elect were sealed because he would privatize -- were sealed to him because he would privatize everything. even agitating putin anti- putin under hillary's reign as secretary of state. it doesn't make a right for arrested to do it, but we have never kept introspective the fact that interfering or meddling in other countries elections were governments is

not some grave aberrational never before heard draw my that the entirere world h has to stod limit and put an end to. it is normal business. we are currently right now and the process of china change the gogovernment of vevenezuela opey and of done so over and over around the world. that is why noam chomsky says that all of this moral outrage of americans at the idea that somebody would interfere in or metal in our democracy has made the u.s. a laughingstock to the hundreds of millions of people -- billions come in fact, who live in countries where the u.s. has done this and far, far worse for decade after decade after decade. amy: david cay johnston, your response? >> well, we live in a world in which governance interferes in the election of other governments. the u.s. has had dirty hands -- i think i wrote a few stories that touched on this in the 1960's.

i was covering local government in the san francisco bay area and also student demonstrations. there is no question that we have overthrown regimes and put in place terrible dictators, but that doesn't mean we should not be outraged -- and we should be -- a russian interference in our election. if glen had looked at my twitter feed, you would know a lot of people attacked him as being illegitimate and i defended him. we disagree, but i think we have honest disagreements about what matters here. glenn sees the russian matters as very black and white because there is no evidence, for example. in fact, i see them as what i believe there are, very gray. we have lots of evidence of extraordinary conductct. russia, if you are listening, love it when the kremlin offers help. the request to use commit occasions here. -- communications gear. excepting vladimir putin at his word and meeting him with no other staff around and

destroying the translator's notes were meeting with no americican translator and the disclosure in the oval office of sources and methods to the russian foreign minister and russian abbasid or, which we learned about only because of the russians, not the white house -- all of that is extraordinary behavior that is unlike any former president. and so we should be very concerned about that. and we do not know enough to understand how this happens. justst imagine foror a moment if barack obama had done some of the things that donald trump has done. what the reaction in congress would be. i also think the proper measure is is not barack obama's foreign policy, but what hillary clinton made clear she would have done had she become president. been't think she would've a particularly great president, but she made a very clear that short of going to war, she was going to squeeze the kremlin until they gave up crimea. putin understood this perfectly.

not so muchh you want to donald trump, he certainly did not want hillary clinton who would have made things economically very painful for him. amy: glenn greenwald, if you can quickly respond to that? i want to end on the issue of where does this leave wikileaks, julian assange? and also, chelsea manning, who has been held in solitary confinement since being sent back to prison march 8 after refusing to answer questions befofore a grand jury. she had been subpoenaed for questioning over her 2010 release of wikileaks of hundreds of thousands of state department and pentagon documents about the wars in iraq and afghanistan. david is right that there was a big difference between obama and clinton when he came to foreign policy. she was very critical of obama for not being more confrontational with putin, for refusing to bomb syria, for refusing to send lethal arms to

ukrainians, for working with russia on the iran deal. obama was right that hillary clinton would have been externally dangerous because she wanted to be way more provocative toward russia and i watch you did not get a chance to do that. it would have been very dangerous for the world, although the trump administration is doing now. as for chelsea manning and wikileaks, the trump administration has made no secret of the fact they want to prosecute wikileaks for the crime, and their eyes, of disclosing confidential documents. one of the gravest threats we can imagine a press freedom. chelsea manning's torture, being put back in the call -- solitary confinement, is try to squeeze her to say things that are not true, to let them prosecute wikileaks. and journalist claiming to be so worried about the threat to press freedom are utterly silent about with the trump is,nistration's real threat they attempt to prosecute julian assange and wikileaks, abusing chelsea manning to do it, in

order to criminalize journalism, which is the publication of top-secret journal -- documents a journalist do everyday. amy: we have to leave it there. thank you for being your, pulitzer prize winning journalist glenn greenwald and david cay johnston. [captioning made possible by

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