04/24/19 04/24/19 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york this is , democracy now! closee this since is is basicaly the dna of our democracy. it determine so many things we do from how billions of dollars is funded, electoral votes states get. if the census is rigged, that all of american democracy will be rigged as well. amy: the supreme court appears poised to allow the trump administration to add a question about citizenship to the 2020

census. even of the government admits the move could resesult in 6 million people not responding. >> at an that citizenship question could lead to the undercounting in community's america.e it would mean communities and total the resources would not get those resourceces. it would deny certain communities of legal representation. amy: we will get the latest on the fight over the census and then we speak to the nobel prize winning economist joseph stiglitz o on "people,e, power,d profits." >> it is an bigger sleep clear thekle-down comics doesn't work. we have to make sure we have share prosperity. and you don't do that by giving a tax cut to the bibig winners d raising taxes on those who have not done very well. amy: all of that and more,

coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. president trump called tuesday on all current and former white house aides to avoid testifying to conongressionalal panels. saying he will invoke executive privilege to block a subpoena ordering former white house counsel don mcgann to testify to congngress. speakiking with "the w washingtn post," trumpmp said complying wh congressional requests was unnececessary after the white house cooperated with special counsel robert mueller's probe into russian interference in the 2016 election. thisis comes as democratic lawmakers are scheduling a vote on charges of contempt of congress against white house personnel security director carl kline, who has refused to testify to the house oversight committee. meanwhile, treasurury secretary steven mnuchin on tuesday failed to meet a congressionally-mandated deadline to turn over president trump's tax returns to the house ways and means committee. it's the second time mnuchin has

refused a congressional order to turn over trump's tax records.s. in a statement, mnuchin said he'd d provide a final answswern whether he would comply by may 6. democrats say they need to know whether trump's myriad business interests, both at home and overseas, are affecting his decisions as president. house leaders are employing a portion of the tax code that grants tax-writing congressional committees the power to request tax information on any filer. the provision was crcreated aftr the teapot dome bribery scandal of warren g. harding's administration in the 1920's. the united nations security council passed a resolution tuesday aimed at ending rape as a weapon of war after the u.s. used a veto threat to strip the measure of any mention of sexual and reproductive health. the trump administration's successful move to water down the measure over its opposition to abortion was blasted by france's u.n. ambassador, who said --

"it is intolerable and incomprehensible that the security council is incapable of acknowledging that women and girls who suffered from sexual violence in conflict, and who obviously didn't choose to become pregnant, should have the right to terminate their pregnancy." the resolution was championed by nobel peace laureate nadia murad, a yazidi kurdish human rights activist from iraq. she was kidnapped by the islamic state and repeatedly raped as she was held as a sex slave for almost three months. >> we come here today and ask those perpetrators of genocide be brought to justice. they used women as a weapon of war. they need to be tried before special court so they would be tried for the crimes they committed. for crimes ofm sexual vioiolence against women would send messages to others and prevent such crimes in the future. amy: in sri lanka, the death

toll from sunday's easter bombing targeting hotels and asrches has climbed to 359 authorities say they diffused another bomb in downtown colombo and arrested more suspects. sri lankan officials apologized monday for failing to respond to multiple tip-offs ahead of sunday's eight a tax. -- attacks. a confidential memo o circulated among srsri lankan security agenencies gave the names, addresses,s, and phone numbers f some of the suspects. it's not clear why authorities failed to act on the warnings. one surveillance video showed a suspect wearing a backpack casually strolliling toward st. sebastian church north of colombo minutes before a bomb ripped through a crowd of easter susunday worshiperers, killing e than 100 of them. onon tuesday, the e self-prorocd islamic state claimed responsibility for the bombings. the group circulated a video purporting to show eight members of a sri lankan n cell pledging

allegiance to the group. human rights groups are condemning saudi arabia's mass execution of 37 prisoners accused of terrorism and espionage. amnesty international says 11 of the men put to death were convicted of spying for iran after what it called a grossly unfair trial. amnesty says least 14 others were convicted for participating in anti-government protests between 2011 and 2012. amnesty says the 14 men were tortured in order to have "confessions extracted from them." one prisoner's body and severed head were put on display in a public crucifixion. in response, maya foa, director of the british legal charity reprieve, said -- "that the saudi regime believes it has impunity to carry out such patently illegal executions, without notice, should shock its international partners into action." in new york city, senior white house adviser and president

trump's son-in-law jared kushner tuesday told a "time magazine" forum he ds s not sputute e c's s nclusion that saudi crown prin m mohamd bibin lman orred the murder owawashinon post journisist jal khkhasggi. but kushner id it wamomore importanto focusn americ foreign licy intests. at a galdinner ler in the day honoring te'e'listst othe world's 100 stst infentitial people, comedianasasan mhaj lled forhe relea of saud wom's rits activt loujai al-hathll -- wh's be torted sinceer arresfor opsing theingdom's male gudianshipystem ana former ban women dvers. miaj also lled outared kuner direly over s clos retionshipith saudcrown prince mohammed bin salman >> i know therre a lot of werful pple. it would bcrcrazy if, i d't knowif there was a high-ranngng offial l inhe whaappsusthat could

mband say, y, maybeou cod help tterson geout of pson because they don'tt servrve . but that would be crazy. that persowould have to benn the roroom, but -- it is just a good comedy premise. amy: jared kushner was sitting in the room. in russia, north korean leader kim jong-un has arrived by train in the eastern port city of vladivostok ahead of his first-ever meeting with president vladimir putin. kim is expected to reach out to putin for economic assistance, as the u.s. shows no sign of easing up on sanctions left in place after president trump walked away from a u.s.-north korea summit on denuclearization in hanoi in february. in malawi, public health officials arare rolling out the first ever vaccine for malaria in a historic pilot program that could save tens of t thousands f lives each year. the vaccine was launched for children in africa, where a child didies of malaria eveveryo minutes. it took more than 30 years to develop the vaccine, which

reduced the number of malaria cases by 40% in clinical trials. "the new york times" is reporting that navy seals who witnessed their platoon chief commit war crimes in iraq were encouraged not to speak out and were told they could lose their jobs for reporting him at a private meeting with a superior officer last year. according to a confidential navy criminal investigation obtained by "the times," the commandos said they saw special operations chief edward gallagher stab and kill an unarmed teenage captive, shoot to death a young girl and old man, and fire indiscriminately into crowds of civilians. but when the men on gallagher's team called a private meeting with their troop commander and demanded an investigation, they were told to stay quiet on the matter and no action was taken. the group of seven seals eventually were able to force an investigation and chief edward gallagher was arrested in september on more than a dozen charges, including premeditated murder and attempted murder.

if convicted, he could face life in prison. his trial begins may 28. in new york city, federal prosecutors announced criminal charges tuesday against top executives of rochester drug cooperative major producer of , opioids, charging them with a conspiracy to profit by illegally distributing controlled substances. this is geoffrey berman, u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york. custodyormer ceo is in and will be presented to a judge in the southern district of new york this afternoon. he is charged with conspiring to distribute oxycodone and with conspiring to defraud the dea. he led rdc during the entire period of the charged conspiracy and alleged them a personally directed, profited from much of its criminal activity. amy: the company's chief

compliance officer also faces criminal charges. both executiveves face possiblbe life in prison. the u.s. supreme court heard arguments tuesday in a case challenging the trump administraration's plans to include a question on citizenship to the 2020 census. voting rights activists fear the question would deter immigrants from participating in the census, leading to a vast undercount in states with large immigrant communities. this could impact everything from the redrawing of congressional maps to the allocation of federal funding. we'll have more on the fight over the 2020 census after headlines.s. the interior department's watchdog has launched a major ethicscs investigation into six top officials, including former interior secretary ryan zinke and the agency's current head, david bernhardt. the probe by interior's inspectotor general follows an ethics complaint filed in february alleging the officials routinely disregarded rules requiring they recuse themselves from official meetings with former employers or lobbying clients. secretary bernhardt is a former oil lobbyist who's been accused

of making at least 15 policy decisions that directly benefited former clients since he joined the agency in 2017. his predecessor, ryan zinke, resigned in december as he faced at least 17 federal investigations into his suspected ethics violations and corruption, including a criminal probe into whether he lied to interior d department investigators. in a growing scandal engulfing the boy scouts of america, it has been revealed that nearly 8000 troop leadersrs have been accused of sexual abuse over the span of 72 years. these findings were announced tuesday in manhattan by jeff anderson, a lawyer representing sexual abuse victims. according to records known as the "perversion files," boy scout volunteer leaders abused more than 12,000 victims between 1944 and 2016. anderson named 130 scout leaders in new york state who had been accused of sexual abuse at tuesday's news conference, noting that state law had recently changed to extend the

statute of limitations for childhood sex abuse. in florida, prosecutors have dropped charges against an african-american teenager whose brutal arrest by broward sheriff deputies went viral last week after was captured on cell phone video. the footage shows a white sprayingepper 15-year-old high school student before slamming his head into the pavement and repeatedly punching him in the head. the officer and another officer have been suspended pending an investigation stop a lawyer is calling for the officer to be criminally charged with assault and battery. a warning to our viewers, the footage we're about to show is disturbing. in new haven, connecticut, newly released police bodycam video shows the moment that a pair of police officers opened fire 16 times on a car. the fusillade shattered the car's windows and left 22-year-old stephanie washington hospitalized for days. the car's driver, 21-year-old

paul witherspoon, escaped without injury. the april shohooting spspawned seseries of preststs, with mmmmunity grgroups demding y yae d d hamden p police ofcials s fe e e officersrs, releasall vivido t the shoototing, andonductct a transpart t criminalal ininvestigatation. the offificers have t toto be charged with any crime. disney heiress abigail disney is speaking out against wage inequality, calling disney ceo bob iger's salary "insane." in an op-ed for "the washington post" published tuesday titled "it's time to call out disney -- and anyone else rich off their workers' backs," she wrote -- "iger took home more than $65 million in 2018. that's 1424 times the median pay of a disney worker. at the pay levels we are talking about, an executive giving up half his bonus has zero effect on his quality of life. for the people at the bottom, it

could mean a ticket out of poverty or debt. it could offer access to decent health care or an education for a child." in south africa, at least 33 people are dead in the eastern province of kwazulu-natal, after floods and mudslides crushed homes around the city of durban. some parts of south africa have received over nine inches of rain since monday, more than three times the average monthly total for all of april. in climate news, an alarming new report published in the journal nature communications finds that without immediate action to curb greenhouse gas emissions, melting arctic permafrost could add as much as $70 trillion to the overalall economic impact of climate change. meanwhile, a draft united nations report obtained by agence france-presse tuesday revealals up to one e million species are at imminent risk of extinction due to human behavior. the report, which is set to be released on may 6, warns the accelerating loss of clean air, drinkable water, and biodiversity poses a threat no

less severe ththan climate chan. and in britain, 16-year-old swedish climate activist greta thunberg called out u.k. lawmakers tuesday for failing to act in time to avert catastrophic climate change. thunberg was speaking to a group of members of parliament from the house of commons. prime minister theresa may was invited but declined to attend. >> probably don't even have a future anymore because that future -- a small number people could make unimaginable amounts of money. every timeen from us hehe said the sky was the limit and you only live once. amy: greta thunberg's appearance at the house of commons came as climate activists with extinction rebellion continued a nonviolent civil disobedience campaign. this is zuhura plummer, a climate activist who locked herself to a truck at london's marble arch landmark, with one hand bound inside a tube labeled "greta."

this is the spot she spoke from yesterday. i am doing this because i believe i literally have no other choice. i have worked for climate change for 16 years. i will sit here until i am arrested because i don't think we have any other way of making our point. i see myself in the long line of around, amazing people the world who are putting their bodies and minds and hearts on the line. amy: over 1000 people have been arrested in the extinction rebellion protests in britain over the last week. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. juan: and i'm juan gonzalez. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. the u.s. supreme court heard arguments tuesday in a case

challenging the trump administration's plans to include a question on citizenship to the 2020 census. voting rights activists fear the question will deter people from participating in the census, leading to a vast undercount in states with large immigrant communities. census officials have estimated 6.5 million people will not respond to the census is a is added. question this could impact everything from the redrawing of congressional maps to the allocation of federal funding. the case centers on whether commerce secretary wilbur ross had the authority to add the question to the census. the american civil liberties union and 17 states have sued, saying ross's move was aimed at deterring immigrants from participating in the census. during the oral arguments, the court's conservative majority appeared to side with the trump administration, while the liberal minority questioned the administration's motives and methods.s. liberal justice sonia sototomayr said -- "there's no doubt that people

will respond less. if you're talking about prediction, this is about 100% that people will answer less." amy: chief justice john roberts appeared to support the addition of the citizenship question saying it was "quite common" to add a demographics questions to the census. he asked the plaintiffs in the suit, "do you think it wouldn't help voting rights enforcement?" conservative justice brett cavanaugh said the united nations recommends that countries ask a citizenship question on the census, listing a number of countries that ask about citizenship, including spain, germany, canada, australia, ireland, and mexico. after the supreme court heard oral arguments, new york state attorney general letitia james, who helped bring the lawsuit, spoke outside the court. particular citizenship question could undercounting in communities across america, particularly in immigrant communities and hispanic communities. it would mean communities entitled thehe resources would t geget those resources. it would deny certain

communities of equal representation all caps on interest of fairness, in the interest of opposing this quintessential american promise, we're obligated to ensure the most accurate counts in the 2020 census. and as such, we must use every tool at our disposal in our arsenal to fight to protect its integrity. and that is what we e did today. amy: well, for more, we go now to los angeles we're joined by thomas saenz, president and general counsel of maldef, the mexican american legal defense and educational fund. maldef is representing plaintiffs in one of the lawsuits challenging the census citizenship question. and here in new york, we are joined by ari berman, a senior writer at mother jones, a reporting fellow at the nation institute, and author of "give us the ballot: the modern struggle for voting rights in america." are you -- ari, you attended the supreme court oral arguments yesterday. set the scene for us. were you surprised by the tenor of the question? >> i did. this is one of the most

important cases for democracy and decades, amy, because the senses determined so many things in our society, how $880 billion in federal funding is allocated, how voting districts are drawn, how many houses, electoral college votes. there is nothing we do that is more important democracy than the senses. this one question about u.s. citizenship has a possibility to derail the entire census. one of the most imimportant and longest coconstitutional responsibilities our government has could now be deraililed and tuturn into a popolitical weapoy the e trump administration to target immigrants anand places were l lots of immigrants live. i was hoping i would hear these big picture debates in the supreme court about the importance of the census and how this question threatens the senses. instead, the conservative justices on the court seemed very sympathetic to this question. they really did d not question e motives of wilbur ross, the

commerce secretary, who added this question, even a three different federal courts have struck it down.. six years s ago i was in the suprpreme court when they railed against the e voting r rights a, called it an act of rituall discrimination against the south. suddenly, six years later, the same justices that gutted the elite the citizenship question is this is very to enforce the voting rights act. with every vototing rights lawyr will tell you it is not. we have a situation n where thte supreme court seemss like theyey are abouout to side with folks that want to gut voting rights, roll back civil rights, target immigrant community's, as opposed to rejecting one of the most important responsibilities we have. juan: i want to ask thomas saenz , what do you see -- what is your take on how the hearing went yesterday? is hard to predict from an oral argument in any case what the outcome will be.

i do think we have a chief justice who appreciate and statistical integrity of the court, more broadly, the constitution. i think we have seen him make unexpected decisions in previous cases, reflecting that believe in ensuring institutional and constitutional integrity. and as ari has stated, this is the most important issue that we have faced in decades. thats the is a mandate goes back to our constitutions --y beginning, the direction so much of what we do from allocating seats in the house of representatives among the states to drawing district lines, from the local level to the federal level within the state, to how we distribute resources from the federal government is determined by that enumeration. this is so integral to what we do as a democracy that i believe when the justices happen an opportunity to reflect further,

we wait -- we may well see a change in their initial reaction to this late added and falsely added question to the census 2020. in the car i want to turn to wilbur ross in march. >> no with individual data will be used for any other purpose other than the aggregations that we provide externally. suchis is not a tool as for immigration. our job is simply to count the people, whether citizen or not. amy: if you can respond to the substance of this, ari berman, but also what has come out, the corruption around who exactly proposed this and wilbur ross working with ben in an kobach and who they are. >> wilbur ross is one of the most corrupt members of the trump administration. he has lied repeatedly about why he added this question to the

census in march 2018. he said it was dated for better force than of the voting rights act -- was needed for better enforcement of the voting rights act. this question is not been on the census since the 1950's. there's no pressing need to ask this question. he said the justice department initiated this question. memo after memo after memo shows ross was the one who told the justice department, we needed ts question.. he said he did not discuss this with the white house am a but it , the out stephen bannon chief strategist of the trump administration and architect of the trump administration's white nativist strategy, put wilbur ,oss in touch with kris kobach the leading architect of laws restricting voting immigration in the u.s., to add this question to the census. it was called bakr told wilbur ross it was e essential to add this question to the senses. this is the smoking gun. the fact that stephen bannon, kris kobach, jeff sessions --

the most anti-immigrant, most anti-voting rights people in the country -- they were the ones who were instrumental l in pushg to get this question on the census. it had n nhing to dodo with enenforcing voting rights. it was preserving what political power for the next decade. juan: thomas saenz, your sense inin terms of the impact this could have if the question is allowed on the census? this whole issue as just a soda mayor said, it is a must 100% guaranteed many folks, especially immigrants in the country, will choose not to cooperate with the census and the impact it could have, especially in the climate of the trump administration constantly raising the dangers of undocumented immigration or as they say, illegal immigration in the country? right.lutely

the climate that has been created by this a administration, the census bureau as don't for a long time, is are ready creating challenges for getting folks to respond to the census. as long ago as november 2017, before the announcement of the citizenship question, the bureau was reporting to its national advisory committee on racial, ethnic, and other populations it was already sing unprecedented levels of not corporation, unprecedented levels of refusing to completely implead a questionnaire. it was cigna because of the atmosphere created by this of administration. you add to that a citizenship question and that level of distrust is very high with respect to this a administration in communities across the country and you have a recipe for a very serious, serious undercount. there are folks across the country, including my own organization that will work very hard to try to reassure people, to try to get as complete a count as possible. the bureau will invest in trying to commit -- convince people to participate but we have created

headwinds in a climate of great distress for this administration that make it virtually overseen outcome that we will have a higher undercount than we otherwise should have. the implications of that for the next decade of policymymaking in this country are monstrous. juan: ari, the extreme actions of some states in particular -- they're not looking solely to redistrict taste on an undercount, but also determine who gets the right to vote? actual count vototers than residents? >> this is an important point. one of the reasons they want to add this question about citizenship. everyone is counter for the purpose of drawing districts. it doesn't matter if you are a voter or nonvoter, citizen or not. everyone is cap to because everyone deserves representation. what conseservatives want to dos redraw districts counting only citizens or possibly counting only voters.

that would dramatically shift power away from areas that have a lot of immigrants, places like new york and california and texas, and redistribibute political power to wider, momore conserervative areas. amy: californinia could lose seats. > they could lose millions of dollars and the seas. california could actually y lose congressional seats in the next round. amy: something like estimated i think 6 million people undercounted? >> 6 million people might t not respond to thehe form. remember, ththis will a affect r than that, becauause it affects the most populous parts of the country that could lose representation. what is happening is the trump administration wants to use the census as a weapon to preserve white political power in the face of massive dedemographic change. what an accurate census will show, the country is more diverse than ever, but if you can stop ththat from happening,

then the country is more white than it should be, more conservative than it should be, and more republican than it should be. amy: i want to turn to the issue of voting rights for prisoners, which has sort of exploded on the scene this week, though it has been an issue for a long time. on monday, presidential candidate senator bernie sanders was asked during a town hall on cnn if prisoners such as the boston marathon bomber should be allowed to vote while locked up. >> as it happens in my own state of vermont, from the very first days of our state's history, when our constitution says is everybody can vote. that is true. so people in jail can vote. here is my view. if somebody commits a serious crime, sexual assault, murder, they're going to be punished. they may be in jail for 10 years, 20's, 50 years, or whole lives. that is what happens when you commit a serious crime. but i think the right to vote is

inherent to our democracy. yes, even for terrible people. because once you start shipping the ways i, well, that guy committed a terrible crime, not going to let him vote. down a slipperyg slope. amy: senator sanders comes from vermont where prisoners can vote as can maine. jim another presidential form that night on cnn presidential , candidate pete buttigieg, the mayor of south bend, indiana, came out against prisoners voting. whenrt of the punishment you're convicted of a crime and you are incarcerated is you lose certain rights. you lose your freedom. ithink during that period, does not make sense to have an exception. amy: and the question was put to kamala harris of california. who are convicted, in prison, , like the boston maratn bomber on death row, peopople wo

are convicted of sexual assault, they should be able to vote? >> i think we should have that conversation. amy: she said "i think we should have that conversation" monday night but on tuesday, senator "i'm a prosecutor. i believe there has to be series consequences for the most extreme types of crime." senator elizabeth warren said, "i'm not there yet." >> this is not as radical as it seems. allowates already prisoners to vote.e. it is not about whether terrible people should lose all of their rights or be punished, it is about whether you lose fundamental citizenship just because you did one thing wrong. it is interesting. prisoners are already counted for redistricting purposes so they are already counted where they are incarcerated, but yet

they are not allowed to vote. he does not make a whole lot of sense. if you believe the p purpose of prprison is for rehabilitation, then allowing people to o still have their most fundamental civic responsibilities is a key aspect of that. i am glad we're having this conversation. i hope it is not demonized. saying should the boston bomber be allowed to vote? that is incredibly disingenuous. that is not the conversation we should be having. it is she leads a people be stripped of their fundamental rights. that is the question we need to be having. juan: the decision has to be made state by state. the states get to decide. >> a and like with a lot of thinings, it is not a game. people think the presidentiall candidates canan wave a magic wd . right now six mean people cannot vote because they're behind d bs or when they get out t they stil cannot vote. the questionon is, should d votg be a fundamental right for

everyone no matter what you do or shoululd it be something that is restricted to one segment of the population or another? bernie sanders is saying if you go down that road, saying some can vote and not others, that is andg to lead to wider broader disenfranchisement. amy: we want to thank you both for joining us, ari berman, senior writer at mother jones, author of the book "give us the ballot: the modern struggle for voting rights in america." thomas saenz is president and general counsel of maldef, the mexican american legal defense and education fund. speaking to us from los angeles. maldef is representing plaintiffs in one of the lawsuits challenging the census citizenship question. this is democracy now! when we come back, we will be joined by joseph stiglitz. "people, power, and profits." stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: colleen, "soul alphabet." this is democracy now!, i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. heiress speaking out against wage inequality, calling disney ceo bob geiger's seller "insane." in an opinion p is for "the washington post" published -- day, she wrote he took on more than $65 million

in 2018. times the median pay of a disney worker. to put that gap in context, in 1978, the average ceo made about 30 times a typical worker salary. since 1978, the ceo pay has grown by 937%, while the pay of an average worker grew just 11.2%. this growth in inequality has affected every corner of american life." and for those of the words of abigail disney. she went on to write -- we spend the rest of the hour looking at inequality in the state of the economy with the nobel prize-winning economist joseph stiglitz, who served as chair of the council of economic visors under president clinton.

he is a professor at columbia university and professor and chief economist for the roosevelt institute. his latest book is out this week "people, power and profits: progressive capitalism for an age of discontent." joe stiglitz, welcome back to democracy now! what he start off by talking about abby disney, what she did us a. she is the heiress of disney. saying that igers' salary, the ceo, is insane. >> she is absolutely right. you mentioned in the late 1970's, it was 30 to one on average today it is over 300 to one. it is not as if our ceos have gotten 10 times as more productive in those intervening years. it is not as if -- american ceos get paid so much more than their workers rerelative to those in europe and even more relative to those in japan. it is not because the ceos are

that much more productive. it is because we have a real problem in our corporate governance laws, and our norms, that allow them to take away that much money. and that money coming up once it could have gone to -- made a very big difference to workers. that money could have also gone into investment. one of the striking things about the u.s. today is while the are very, very hihigh relative to what they hae been in the past, the levels of investment are below. you would have thought those two would have gone together, but with ceo pay and share buybacks being so large, trillion dollars of share buybacks last year, the money isn't going you there to ment.rs or to invest juan: yet at the taxation policy, which is gradually protecting wealth rather than create a level playing field whether it is with the elimination of the inheritance

tax or the ending effectively of progressive e taxation, meaning not all money they get they get to keep as well. >> this is a time where, given the growth of inequality, would have thought the natural response is to ramp up our progresses dignity of our tax system -- progressivity of our tax system. the tax bill is a real illustration of that. it i increased t the tax rate oa majority of people in the second, third, and for quentin tell. the vast middle class, with the bill is fully implemented, will see higher tax rates in order to give a tax cut for millionaires. another way have put it as an economist going back to abigail disney, they talked about incentives.. what kind of a ceo do you needed to pay $6 million to get him off the golf course? surgeon who is

doing heart surgery is a, i will pay you a lot of money prorovidd i survive but if i don't, by the way, you don't get anything. susurgeons are professionals. they do all they can to make sure the surgery enables you to live. our ceos ought to be that kind of professional. they used to be. they sayay, my job, i am trusted by myy corporation to do the bet i can for the corporation, and i will give it all. or are paying the $5 million $2 million to do that? that is more than adequate. in other countries, people have that kind of sense of responsibility but not evidently ceos like that of disney. amy: joe, your book is titled "people, power and profits: progressive capitalism for an age of discontent." should it be progressive

capitalism for worker power? this is increasingly becoming the issue, when you have a top candidates and most popular political figures like aoc, alexandria ocasio-cortez, like bernie sanders, one of the top presidential contenders, proudly calling themselves democratic-socialists. >> in those few words in the title, i try to pack an awful lot. one thing no one to say is the market is going to have to play an important role in a modern economy. to use why wanted the word capitalism. i wanted to signal the form of capitalism we are seen over the past 40 years has not been working for most people. that is why talk about people. we have to have progressive capitalism. we have to tame capitalism and redirect capitalism so it serves our society.

people are not supposed to serve the economy, the economy is supposed to serve our people. the other word i talk about is power.r. what i'm trying to capture is there's a real sense of powerlessness by a lot of americans. powerlessness in the economy and .owerlessness in our politics it is because of the increased concentration of market power in our economy, the growth of those monopolies, tech monopolies, monopolies in so many sectors, which would -- one of the factors that has contributed to all of this inequality. but there is also -- amy:-capitalism always done that? >> not to the extent it has. you can trace the degree of monopoly power and yes, it was terrible at the end of the 19th century and that is what we passed antitrust laws and it worked for a while. we broke up a lot of the big monopolies. then around the middle of the 20th century, is a set of ideas

that were propagated by milton friedman, university of chicago. that said, then market is naturally competitive. don't worry about market power. that was basically giving a blank check to the formation of mourn a month -- more monopolies. the idea that corporations will exert the explication for market power is an old one. andrew smith talked about it. thatd about this idea business leaders seldom get together, even for merriment, without a conspiracy against the general well-being. he was aware of it. that is why we passed loss to circumscribe it. thatwe had this doctrine says, don't worry about it. now was to the consequences of not worrying about it. juan: i wanted to ask you about

one section in your book, several of your articles you talked about china and economic model of china. in your bookok you sayay, for my of the billions in the developing world in emerging markets, china, using its distinctive socialist market economy with chinese characteristics, has provided a dynamic alternative vision to that of america who standing suffered a major blow with the 2008 crisis." china, to many folks, is basically a former state capitalism, yet it has enormous economic growth, 7%, to percent a year, and raised hundreds of millions of people out of poverty. >> 740 million people out of poverty. juan: what does that say about the form of capitalism we have in the u.s. or even western europe that china is economically providing much more to its people these days than these systems are in terms of

where it came from? >> you have to remember they were catching up. it proved to be an effective instrument for catching up. but there's a price in terms of democracy. hoped that we would havemodel showing you can a kind of capitalism m that actually wororks for people, the kind of progressive capitalism that i'm talking about that can deliver growth but not just for the 1% or 1/10 of 1%, but for the majority of our citizens. juan: has of the exacerbation of -- i go back to the collapse of the soviet union. there e were competing systems back then. western capitalism had to at least provide some benefits to its workers to prevent them from going toward socialismsm. with the collapse of the soviet union and eastern european countries, not only were new

markets opened up for capitalism, but there was no longer a need to get any sops to the working class. there was no more computing system. >> you are right. it is one of the forces that have undermined the way our economic system has worked. we have not been challenged, to put it in a way. but we are being challenged now because so many people have done ---- amy: and w when you say we, you mean -- >> the united states and also western europe. andut it another way, 1950's, we aspired to be the first middle-class society. we talked about education for all, we had infrastructure investment. we had a tax rate at the top of 90% and we're the fastest rate of growth we have ever had. amy: when we come back from break, we want to ask about how health care for all, how

canceling student debt, pre-k, how all of these issues can be financed under progressive capitalism. all of the issues that are being put forward by a few of the democraticic candidates right n. joe stiglitz, nobel prizize-winning economist is wih us. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: soundtrack from "mary poppins." this is democracy now!, i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. taxation andon on economic policy has found a number of large u.s. companies paid nothing in federal taxes, has doubled in recent years. the companies include amazon, netflix, general motors, chevron, delta, honeywell, prudential, halliburton, whirlpool, and goodyear. elizabeth warren recently introduced a proposal called the real corporate profits tax to force companies to pay a 7% tax on all profits over warren $100 million. ououtlined the plalan recently n msnbc. >> it is just t if you have more reported million in after-tax profits, the 100

millioionth and first dollar should be taxed at 7%, and they go straight across the board. thee simplplicity of it is papaf whatat makes it work so well and makes sure no giant corporation in this country gets away with paying zeroo while small companies and families are having to pick up the ticket to run the country. amy: that is elizabeth warren. we hope she will join us on democracy now! we hope all those who are her friends and close circle will your that message and she herself. but we're joined now by nobel prize-winning economist joseph stiglitz. his latest book, "people, power and profits: progressisive capitalism foror an age of discontent." what about this? >> it is like anan alternative minimum tax for operations. >> i think there should be a global minimum tax. they are avoiding not only taxes in the u.s., but looking around the world for places like panel mall and tax paradises to avoid

taxes. apple was particularly bad with where they shifted all of their money into ireland, from all of the profits in europe, and it did a special deal with ireland so they basically paid almost no .02%. very low. a real example of tax avoidance almost a at the level of evasio. -- point of what to make is the point elizabeth is making is are our big cororporations showing the same ingenuity off cocoming up with good products, showing the same ingenuity in avoiding taxes. making sure we have laws that allow them to do that. she is saying that is wrong. she is also emphasizing it distorts our economy. it distorts our economy in two ways.

where business is located is distorted because you search for a tax haven. but also gives these big companies an advantage over small corporations, you know, individual comompanies. and so that is not a level playing field. the big companies expand not because they're necessarily more efficient, but because they are better at avoiding their tax obligations. wondering, elizabeth warren particularly has been rolling out a series now a proposals, some apparently well thought out because we are 20 democratic candidates but we have a lack of specifics of what they stand for. amy: 20 tomorrow when biden announces. juan: her breakup of big tech companies? >> you should look at these

proposals in two ways. she is setting out a set of principles. we ought to have more progressive taxation and all other corporations escape taxation. we ought to do something about the growth of monopoly power in our society. we ought to make sure education is accessible to everybody regardless of their income, of their parents. these are basic principles which all americans should ascribe to. the second thing is, here is a particular way we can implement that. know whenbe -- we all we go to congress, the will be a lot of discussion about how to do it and hopefully during the primaries and the election, there will be a lot more discussion, but she is putting forward the idea these are doable ideas. these are not pie-in-the-sky. we can get more progressive taxation, for instance, by small wealth tax on those with more

than $50 million. it is not going to affect even the bottom 1% -- i'm sorry, the bottom 90 not percent are not going to be affected. we're talking about a fraction of the top 1%. that is one example. thing, wedent loan have a student debt now of $1.5 trillion. it is so large it is beginning to affect our macroeconomy. it is affecting individuals lives. they cannot buy a home, start a family becauause of f the debt. juan: a new form of indentured servitude. >> it is. we have to think about it in two parts. one, going forward, how do we make sure a university education is affordable to everybody? in the second part is, what do we do with the backlog of $1.5

trillion? she is a particular proposal. somewhat different from the one i have been advocating, what i have is that you should what i call contingent repayment. a your income is below certain level, say below $50,000, you don't pay back anything. if it is over $200,000, you might pay back 4%. then you keep paying it back until you pay it all back, except after 25 years, you say, look, you have done what you can to repay the debt and we will write off f the rest. one way or anotherer, we have to debtwith that legacy problem. amy: let's go to bernie sanders on fox news, which was controversial in itself, but he wanted to address a truck audience. he was speaking about democratic socialism. >> democratic socialism to me is

creating a government and an economy and a society which works for all rather than just the top 1%. it means ending the absurd inequalities that exist today. i want to lay this out because you're not going to hear this much on fox and you're not going to this much in the media in general. the american people have got to conclude whether we think it is appropriate in what america is about to have three families than thee wealth more bottom half. the top 1% having more wealth than the bottom 92%. whether it is right that 49% of all new income goes to the top are working people to or three jobs just to pay the bills. amy: that is bernie sanders

speaking on fox. we invite bernie sanders to be here democracy now! on democracy now! at the table during this election cycle. joe stiglitz? >> i think he has given a good definition of what is called democratic socialism. what trump is trying to do is confuse people's minds. traditionally the socialism, you know, 100 years ago, was about the ownership of the basic means of production. you did not hear word about that from bernie sanders. he is not talking about that old-style socialism. he is not saying we want to bring maduro, venezuela, to america. that is not what he is talking about. what he is really talking about is what in europe is called social democracy, sometimes called the welfare state, sometimes -- it is basically systems of need social protection, we need systems to make sure we invest in our young people, invest in

our infrastructure, invest in r&d, invest in the future, protect the climate, protect the environment. in other words, we make our economy work for all america. and the word i use is .rogressive capitalism his are any difference between my definition of progressive capitalism and what bernie has called democratic socialism? no. at --all try and get trying to get at an economy that serves the citizens. i try to emphasize the will be a market part of this. is emphasizing, the government is going up to play a role. i emphasize both of those in my book. amy: joe stiglitz, thank you for being with us, nobel prize-winning economist, columbia university professor. his latest book out this week "people, power and profits: , progressive capitalism for an age of discontent." that does it for our show.

i will be speaking at the university of california berkeley on saturday at 6:00 p.m. we will be showing google four days in western sahara." democracy now! is looking for feedback from peop