06/20/19 06/20/19 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! think reparations for

something that happened 150 years ago for whom none of us currently living are responsible is a good idea. we have tried to deal with our original sin of slavery by fighting the civil war, bypassing landmark civil rights legislation. we have elected an african-american president also amy: as senate majority leader mitch mcconnell dismisses growing calls for the u.s. to pay reparations for slavery, the household of historic hearing on reparations to mark the anniversary of juneteenth. speakers included the acclaimed writer ta-nehisi coates. >> enslavement reigned for 250 years on these shores. when it ended, this country could have extended its hollow principles regardless of color. but america had other principles in mind. and so for a century after the

civil war, black people were subjected to a relentless campaign of terror, a campaign that extended well into the lifetime of majority leader mcconnell. amy: ta-nehisi coates will join us today for the hour. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. iran has announced it has shot down a u.s. navy drone that iran claims entered iranian airspace. unnamed u.s. officials have confirmed a drone was shot down but claimed it was in international territory. the head of iran's islamic revolutionary guard major general hossein salami said the incident should send a "clear message to america" not to cross iran's border. the incident comes as tensions continue to escalate between the two nations. on tuesday, the united states announced it was sending 1000 more troops to the region. last week the united states

blamed iran for attacking two oil tankers in the gulf of oman despite a lack of any confirmed evidence. iran has denied the attacks and has repeatedly said it is not seeking war with the u.s. the u.s. navy said wednesday fragments from a mine that allegedly struck a japanese-owned tanker last week bear a strong resemblance to an iranian mine. however, the president of the japanese company that owns the tanker has said the vessel was not attacked by mines but two flying objects. the u.n. and other international actors have called for restraint and a de-escalation of tensions. meanwhile, secretary of state mike pompeo and other top trump officials have reportedly been linking iran to al-qaeda and the taliban during closed-door briefings with lawmakers, in what democrats fear could be part of a plan to invoke the 2001 authorization for the use of military force to attack iran. during a tense hearing before house democrats wednesday, the

state department's special representative for iran, brian hook, was grilled about the president's authority to declare war. this is california congressmember ted lieu questioning brian hook. under our constitution, does the president the power to declare war? >> i think this is a discussion -- trick question. does the president have the power to declare war? yes or no? let me make it really easy for you. under the constitution, congress has the power to declare war, correct? not a trick question. have you read the constitution? >> i have. , theder the constitution framers gave congress the power to declare war, correct? just a yes or no. >> my understanding is we're

here to talk about iran for policy, which i can do. amy: special representative hook did not respond to the question. on wednesday, the house judiciary panel held a historic hearing on reparations for slavery, the first of its kind in over a decade. lawmakers are considering a bill that would create a commission to study the effects of slavery and make recommendations to congress, including a formal apology for slavery. this is actor and activist danny glover. >> national reparations policy is a moral, democratic, and economic imperative. i sit here as the great-grandson brown,rmer slave, mary who was freed by the emancipation proclamation on january 1, 1863. despite much progress over the is yetes, this hearing

another important step in the long and heroic struggle of african-americans to secure reparations for the damages inflicted by an enslavement and post-emancipation and racial exclusionary policies. amy: acclaimed author ta-nehisi coates, who also testified at yesterday's hearing, will join us for the hour for more on this story. former vice president and 2020 presidential candidate joe biden is under fire for fondly reminiscing about his civil relationship with racist senators in the 1970's and 1980's. speaking at a fundraiser in new york city tuesday night, biden expressed nostalgia for his relationship with the late democratic pro-segregation senators james o. eastland of mississippi and herman talmadge of georgia. biden reportedly said -- "i was in a caucus with james o. eastland. he never called me boy, he called me son." biden went on to say -- "a guy like herman talmadge, one of the meanest guys i ever knew, you go down the list of all

these guys. well, guess what? at least there was some civility. we got things done." new jersey senator and 2020 democratic candidate cory booker responded to the remarks in a statement saying -- "vice president biden's relationships with proud segregationists are not the model for how we make america a safer and more inclusive place for black people, and for everyone. he is wrong for using his relationships with eastland and talmadge as examples of how to bring our country together." booker has called for biden to apologize. this is biden's response. >> apologize for what? >>. >> he called for. >> he knows better. there's not a racist bone in my body. i've been involved in civil rights my whole career, period. period, period, period. amy: senator booker has called -- senator kamala harris, also a accused biden of coddling the

reputations of segregationists. worn, sanders, and bill de blasio also condemned the remarks by biden. former white house communications director hope hicks appeared before congress wednesday in a closed-door session, where she refused to answer most questions about her time in the white house. white house counsel said hicks was immune from answering questions about her time working as an adviser to president trump, a claim dismissed by judiciary chair jerry nadler, who said he would seek to legally compel her testimony on such questions. lawmakers subpoenaed hicks as part of their investigation into trump's potential obstruction of justice, corruption and abuse of power. hicks did respond to some questions about her involvement in trump's 2016 campaign, and was reportedly asked what she knew about contacts between trump associates and russia. she also reportedly shared that she was unaware of any hush-money payments made in the run-up to the 2016 elections. hope hicks now serves as an executive and chief communications officer at fox corporation, the parent company of fox news.

in environmental news, the trump administration has replaced an obama-era energy rule, which was designed to close older coal plants and tighten emissions restrictions. the new rules announced by the environmental protection agency wednesday allow states to set regulations for emissions and decide whether coal-fired plants should make improvements. obama's clean power plan sought to lower carbon emissions through federal regulations, but the plan never took effect due to multiple legal challenges from energy companies and some states. michael brune, executive director of the sierra club said , -- "trump and wheeler are pushing a plan that will lead to thousands of deaths while ignoring the public's demands for aggressive climate action, just so a handful of wealthy coal executives can make a little more money. this is an immoral and an illegal attack on clean air, clean energy, and the health of the public." legal challenges from at least six states and multiple environmental groups are expected.

on tuesday, trump touted his energy policies during his first 2020 campaign rally in florida. pres. trump: we are creating a future of american energy independence and yet our air and water are the cleanest they have ever been by far. amy: research by the american lung association refutes trump's lies. the group found that over 4 in 10 americans live with unhealthy air due to high levels of pollution and dangerous, climate changenduced ozone levels. the poor air quality can cause "premature death and other serious health effects such as lung cancer, asthma attacks, cardiovascular damage, and developmental and reproductive harm," according to american lung association. chinese president xi jinping is in north korea to meet with kim jong-un, marking his first presidential trip to the country and the first chinese state

visit to north korea since 2005. the two leaders are expected to discuss the contentious denuclearization negotiations with the u.s., which stalled after president trump walked away from talks at the vietnam summit in february. kim and xi will also discuss the current state of trade relations between the two countries, which have been severely impacted under current sanctions against north korea. president xi is expected to meet with trump at the g20 summit in japan at the end of the month amid a mounting trade war between china and the united states. a new u.n. report finds that nearly 71 million people were displaced last year by war, persecution, and other forms of violence. that number is more than 2 million people higher than the preceding year and represents a jump of 65% from a decade age. -- decade ago. nearly 26 million refugees were recorded in 2018, over half of them under the age of 18. of those, less than 100,000 were

resettled. over 41 million people worldwide were internally displaced and 3.5 million were registered as asylum seekers. syria represents the highest number of refugees at 6.7 million, while ethiopians represented the largest newly displaced population last year, the vast majority internally displaced due to inter-communal conflict. the annual report by the u.n. refugee agency was released to coincide with world refugee day, which is today. international investigators said wednesday three russians and one ukrainian would be charged with murder for launching a missile that downed malaysia airlines flight in 2014 over eastern ukraine. the investigators say the plane was shot down by a russian missile, though russia has denied involvement in the attack. mh17 was en route from amsterdam to kuala lumpur, carrying people from 17 different countries.

all 298 people on board were killed in the attack. prosecutors say a trial in a dutch court will be held next march. the suspects will likely be tried in absentia as ukraine and russia both have laws protecting citizens from extradition. back in the u.s., the house budget committee held a hearing on poverty in america. reverend dr. william barber, co-chair of the poor people's campaign, called for a moral budget, framing the epidemic of poverty as a moral crisis. society tragic in a where our first constitutional duty is to establish justice and promote the general welfare -- the general welfare, that we will allow the injustice of poverty, 43 .5% of people are poverty and people here who could teach this society, and we would walk away from our constitutional values and walk

away from our spiritual values that tell us it is dangerous for a nation not to lift up the poor. amy: reverend dr. barber called the systemic inequalities in the united states a direct result of policy decisions that work to keep 140 million people in conditions of poverty. in california, democratic governor gavin newsom apologized tuesday for his state's "systemic slaughter of california indians." governor newsom issued the apology, which accompanies an executive order, at the site of the future indian heritage center in sacramento, where he spoke before a group of tribal leaders. governor newsom told them -- "it's called genocide. no other way to describe it. and that's the way it needs to be described in the history books." newsom also announced the creation of a truth and healing council. in 1850, california passed a law allowing for the separation of native american families, their removal from tribal territories, and the creation of a system of indentured servitude. "the los angeles times" reports

california's native american population declined from about 150,000 to 30,000 between 1846 and 1879. daniel salgado of the cahuilla band of indians told "the l.a. times" he appreciated governor newsom's actions, and that -- "in any kind of relationship, there's recognition of a wrongdoing, an apology and a healing starts to take place." and poet, musician and writer joy harjo has become the first native american poet laureate. harjo, a member of the muscogee creek nation, is the author of eight poetry books including the celebrated "in mad love and war," which won the american book award in 1990, as well as a memoir and stories for children and young adults. harjo told "the new york times" -- "just as when i started writing poetry, we're at a very crucial time in american history and in planetary history. poetry is a way to bridge, to

make bridges from one country to another, one person to another, one time to another." and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. nermeen: and i'm nermeen shaikh. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. on wednesday, subcommittee of the house judiciary committee held a historic hearing on reparations for slavery, the first of its kind in over a decade. wednesday's hearing coincided with juneteenth, a day that commemorates june 19, 1865, when slaves in galveston, texas, finally learned that the emancipation proclamation had abolished slavery. this year marks the 400th anniversary of the trans-atlantic slave trade. lawmakers are considering the introduced by

sheila jackson lee of houston this year after former congressmember john conyers at champion the bill for decades without success. the bill carries the designation hr 40, a reference to "40 acres and a mule," one of the nation's first broken promises to newly freed slaves. ahead of the hearing, senate majority leader mitch mcconnell was asked by reporter eva mckend of spectrum news whether the government should issue a public apology for slavery. >> i don't think reparations for something that happened 150 years for whom none of us currently living are responsible is a good idea. we have tried to deal with our byginal sin of slavery fighting a civil war, passing landmark civil rights legislation, elected an african-american president. i think we are always a work in progress in this country, but no

one currently alive was responsible for that. and i don't think we should be how toto figure out compensate for -- first of all, it would be pretty hard to figure out who to compensate. we have had weighed of immigrants -- waves of immigrants but of come and experienced discrimination of one kind or another. no, i don't think reparations are a good idea. amy: that was senate majority leader mitch mcconnell. well, on wednesday, award-winning author ta-nehisi coates testified before the house judiciary committee and took direct aim at mcconnell. >> yesterday when asked about reparations, senate majority leader mcconnell offered a familiar reply. america should not be held responsible for something that happened 150 or's ago since none of us probably alive are responsible. this rebuttal proffers a strange

theory of governance that theican are bound by lifetime of generations. well into the century, the u.s. was still paying out pensions to theheirs of civil war soldiers. we honor treaties that date back some 200 years despite no one being alive who signed those treaties. many of us would love to be taxed for the things we are solely and individually responsible for, but we are american citizens and that is bound to a collective enterprise that extends beyond our individual and personal reach. it was in ridiculous to dispute invocations of the founders of the greatest generation on the basis of a lack of membership in either group. we recognize our lineage as a generational trust, as inheritance. in the real tone of posed by reparations is just that, dilemma of inheritance. it is impossible to imagine

america without the inheritance of slavery. as historian ed baptist has written, "should every crucial aspect of the economy and politics of america so that by 1836, more than 600 million were almost half of the economic activity in the united states, derived directly or indirectly from the cotton produced by the million odd slaves. the time the enslaved were emancipated, they comprised the largest single asset in america. billion in $1860, more than all the other assets in the country combined. the method of cultivating this asset was neither gentle enjoying nor persuasion, but torture, rape, and child trafficking. enslavement reigned for 200 to 50 years on these shores. when it ended, this country could have extended its hollow principles, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, to all regardless of color.

but america had other principles in mind. and so for a century after the civil war, black people were subjected to a relentless campaign of terror, a campaign that extended well into the lifetime of majority leader mcconnell. it is tempting to divorce this modern campaign of terror, of plunder, from enslavement, but the logic of enslavement, of white supremacy, respects no such borders and the guard of bondage was lustful and begat many heirs. coup d'etats and convict leasing. vagrancy laws and debt peonage. redlining and racist g.i. bills. poll taxes and state-sponsored terrorism. we grant that mr. mcconnell was not alive for appomattox. but he was alive for the electrocution of george stinney. he was alive for the blinding of isaac woodward. he was alive to witness kleptocracy in the state of alabama and a regime premised on electoral theft.

geordie legal -- majority leader mcconnell cited civil-rights legislation yesterday, as well he should have, because he was alive to witness the harassment, jailing, and betrayal of those responsible for that legislation by a government sworn to protect them. he was alive for the redlining of chicago and the looting of black homeowners of some $4 billion. victims of that plunder are very much alive today. i'm sure they would love a word with the majority leader. what this committee must know is emancipationmassiv doubled of the door against the bandits of america, jim crow wedged the windows wide open. and that is the thing about senator mcconnell's "something" -- it was 150 is ago. and it was right now. the typical black family in this country has 1/10 of the wealth of the typical white family. black women die in childbirth at

four times the rate of white women. the shame of this land of the free boasting of the largest prison population on the planet, of which the descendents of the enslaved make up the largest share. the matter of reparations is one of making amends and direct redress, but it is also a question of citizenship. in hr 40, this body has a chance to both make good on its 2009 apology for enslavement and reject fair weather patriotism, itsay that a nation is both credits and of its. that if thomas jefferson matters, so does sally hemmings. that if d-day matters, so does black wall street. that if valley forge matters, so does fort pillow. because the question really is not whether we will be tied to the something's of our past, but whether we are courageous enough to be tied to the whole of them. thank you. amy: that was award-winning author ta-nehisi coates, a

leadoff witness before the house judiciary committee on wednesday. is several 2014 as they helped spur new calls to make amends for slavery. when we come back, he joins us for the rest of the hour. ♪ [music break]

amy: joy harjo, the first native american poet laureate. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. as we continue to talk about the call for slavery reparations, we spend the rest of the hour with ta-nehisi coates, who testified at wednesday's hearing. he is the author of several books including, "we were eight years in power: an american tragedy." he is also the author of "between the world and me," for which he received the 2015 national book award for nonfiction. he is now a writer in residence at new york university. essay, the case for reparations, helped spur new calls to make amends for slavery.

today he joins us for the hour. take you for being with us. can you talk about the origins of this hearing -- the first in a dozen years -- and the bill that is being considered and what you hope to come of this? did you ever dream this is what would, -- well, it is been going on for decades, but five years ago, you intensified the discussion with your piece on reparations? to behas been -- i have honest, it has been fascinating to watch. i think the people need understand, about the piper reparations, is precisely how old it is. royal,es back to belinda who sued the estate of isaac royal back in postcolonial times after the american revolution come up through the 19th century makingmes forman, sr., his demand for reparations, up

through people like professor charles ogletree. this is a long, long fight. when i published the case for reparations in the atlantic, my hope was just to make my entry into that fight. i did not expect it to quite get here. i think this is definitely progress. i don't think this is in you are near the end goal, but i think yesterday was progress. a number of made extremely powerful remarks during your testimony, among which you said "it is impossible to imagine america without the inheritance of slavery." for our international audience and others who are not quite as familiar with this history, could you explain what you mean by that? sure. the two great crimes in american

history is honestly the destruction of this country's native american and the new destruction -- not the destruction, the near destruction of the native american population and theft of their land and onto work that land was brought in native africans into this country, beginning in 1619. those twin processes profoundly altered the shape of the world and made this country possible. obviously, first of all, the land on which america -- i americans currently reside was the land of native americans, but the people brought in to break that land just transformed -- the process derived from slavery are more extreme than i think are commonly acknowledged. as i said yesterday, in 1860, 14 milliond was enslaved black people in this country was some $3 billion, nearly $75 billion in today's inre of dollars, of cotton

this country was the largest export, the majority of export out of this country. so from a financial perspective, does the economics of it, it is absolutely impossible to imagine america without enslavement. the onset of the syllable war, -- civil war, millionaire's and multimillionaires, this country was in the mississippi river valley, was done in boston or chicago, wasn't in new york. the richest people in this country were slaveholders. most of our earliest pre--- residents were slaveholders. the fact there were president is not incidental to the fact to their slaveholding. that is how they built their wealth, how thomas jefferson built as well, george washington built his wealth. individual slaves were the equivalent of owning a home today. intowere people but turned objects of extreme wealth. so just from the economic perspective, there is that.

forgive me for expanding, but what america actually is culturally. our greatest export today is not entertainment -- is our entertainment and culture. it is impossible to imagine american cinema without regrettably birth of a nation. impossible to imagine america literature without james baldwin, without 20 morrison. all of the primary, secondary territory fruits of slavery. if you strip slavery out of america, strip black people out of america, you really don't have an american. amy: ta-nehisi coates, i want to go to a clip of you speaking at this historic hearing yesterday before the house judiciary committee chair answering chairman jerry nadler. toit has been said or eluded repeatedly throughout this conversation that somehow wealthy african-americans are immune to these effects.

but in addition to the wealth gap that is cited, one thing that folks should keep in mind oftenwealthy americans" are not equivalent to the "wealthy white americans." the average african-american family in this country making $100,000, actually lives in the same kind of neighborhood the average white family making $35,000 a year lives in. that is totally tied to the legacy of enslavement and jim crow in the input and the idea in the mind that white people and black people are somehow deserving of different things. you, the injury persists even after i asked to commit the act. if i stab you, you may suffer collocations long after that initial actual stabbing. if i shoot you, you may suffer complications long after that initial shooting. that is the case with african-americans.

there are people well within the living memory of this country that are still suffering from the after affects >> thank you very much. amy: that is ta-nehisi coates speaking at the hearing. i want to go back to just a clip of what the senate majority leader mitch mcconnell said. >> i heard it said earlier, for instance, that -- >> i don't think reparations for something that happened 150 years ago for whom none of us currently living are responsible is a good idea. ourave tried to deal with original sin of slavery by fighting the civil war, bypassing landmark civil rights legislation. we have elected an african-american president. amy: i want to point out that the question that he was asked about reparations, about apologies for slavery, was asked by young african-american reporter named eva mckend.

the reporter herself is only being talked about on democracy now! and the significance of this, ta-nehisi, and then if you can talk about the bill that is being considered. you yourself said when you started your historic peace five years ago in the case of reparations, you yourself were not convinced. >> first of all, i want to thank you for shouting out that reporter. that actually has meaning because of lack reporter to actually asked the question to set this in motion. you, forest with instance, the previous answer i just gave you on economics of enslavement and its relationship to this country, i would not have been able to give you that answer. i think -- when i started in 2014, at that point i was for reparations but you're referring to something i wrote in 2012.

again, i would not have been able to give you that answer. i did not have that level of knowledge. beyond that, i did not have the level of knowledge on how it persisted. i had a vague sense of segregation and jim crow, etc. in the 100 years after, but i did not all about redlining. not in a degree of detail. i did not know how this extraction of wealth from the african-american community laundered through the state into the white community through redlining, through the fha loan program, through the g.i. bill. i did not have knowledge of that. once i saw that it is like, wow, this is a persistent pattern of extraction that needs to really -- at that point reparations made total sense to me. sense longnty of before it made sense to me. how do you think conversations about reparations in the american public sphere have changed since the

publication of your atlantic piece? >> that he's got a lot of attention. i'm not totally convinced that is why this is happening. i just really want to say again people have been fighting this battle for a long time so it is like you put drops of water in a glass and eventually you see some sort of larger effect. when i published in 2014 come only 10, 15 years ago, randall roberts in, the efforts of -- there have been all of these sort of efforts that did not get the same degree of coverage. that is the first thing. i also think having our first black president follow up by someone or for two as your first white president, has had a tremendously radicalizing effect on a lot of people. can you talk about -- i mean, this discussion about

reparations immediately last on the talk shows, what are they talking about, giving checks -- who would be involved, who would get the money, how would this be determined? go back to when abraham lincoln signed a bill amends a painting enslaved people -- emancipating enslaved people. the slave owners around washington, d.c., being given reparations for each enslaved person that they freed, what was it, $300 a person? >> i can't remember the number, but you are correct. in fact, lincoln offer that does several -- he had this idea, called compensated emancipation of the time. he offered it to several border states. that was the plan to compensate the actual slaveholders. that is a global pattern throughout history. the country of haiti to have the temerity to liberate itself was forced to pay reparations to

france, the country that enslaved the people. this is a global pattern with people enslaved. it is only for questions of power that we find ourselves thatto continental idea people looked on the enslaving should have been compensated and that was fine. and not just people who were enslaved, but people suffering the effects of that afterward should not be compensated. amy: talk about -- >> can i add one quick thing? this whole thing about who should get a check and should we cut checks, i understand those questions. those people should support hr 40, though. that is what hr 40 does. it tries to get that math figured out. if we don't have a study, we cannot answer those questions. you cannot ask a doctor to make a diagnosis before there is an actual examination. those people who have those questions should be the biggest supporter of hr 40. nermeen: i want to go back to

some of the enduring legacy of slavery in the u.s. the house budget many held a hearing on poverty in america and reverend dr. william barber, cochair of the poor people's campaign, called for a moral budget framing the epidemic of poverty as a "moral crisis." >> it is tragic in a society where our first constitutional duty is to establish justice and promote the general welfare -- the general welfare that we will allow the injustice of poverty -- 43.5% of poor people are poverty and people here who , and weach this society would walk away from our constitutional values and walk away from our spiritual values that tell us that it is dangerous for a nation not to lift up the poor.

amy: reverend dr. barber is wearing a sash that says "jesus was a poor man." i just want to point out, so you're having this hearing on juneteenth and the budget committee is having this historic hearing on juneteenth. you are actually speaking at exactly the same time. that hearing coleman aided three days -- culminated three days of the poor people campaign, picked up from the last year of dr. martin luther king's life as he let the poor people's campaign. democracy now! was there on monday at the trinity university when dr. barber and dr. list bill harris questioned nine presidential candidates about this issue of the connections of poverty and racism saying this issue of extreme poverty was not raised once and one of the presidential debates of 2016. can you talk about this trajectory from slavery to what we're describing today?

>> yes. i think in this moment, one of the reasons why this -- all of these questions that may have been off the table in 2016 or off the table in 2008, it is not were not raising them. it is not that people were not making a point. i think in reaction to what is going on to this country right now, people are much more open. and in terms of poverty and race in this country -- one of the things i really wanted to stress is the level of poverty specifically that you see in the african-american community is not accidental. this is part of the process. the process of enslavement involves stealing something from someone, taking something from someone. jim crow was left, thirst and foremost. if i tax you or tell you you have to be loyal to this country to its lawsoyalty

but then i don't to be the same degree of protection, don't give you the same access to resources that i give to another group of people, i effectively have stolen something from you. i have stolen your tax money, stolen your loyalty. so when the state of mississippi, for instance, taxes black people and then builds one facility for education and another -- one facility for education for whites and inferior facility for blacks, that is theft. if i build a public pool system and tell you you cannot use it, that is theft. that is the long history of this country that doesn't and 1968.vatively until there are people who are very much alive that have experienced that you're suffering the aftereffects and effects of that. as far as i'm concerned, the whole movement around reparations is about.

i did not hear dr. reverend barber's comments, but i suspect there's quite a bit of overlap. nermeen: i want to ask about what may be a change in perception of the position that the african-american community in the u.s. is in and a possible change in what ought to be done about it. a recent survey by the associated press found 52% of americans believe the government does that put enough resources into improving the conditions of african-americans but only 30% to the government is obliged to compensate for past racial discrimination. your response to that and the distinction between the two? people -- again, i said this yesterday, i think people are very uncomfortable when we start talking about the things in america's past that do not credit us.

again, we have no problem at all taking credit for the things that people are no longer here, were in our past -- we have no problem taking credit for those efforts. you take somebody like mitch mcconnell who just don't want to be responsible for enslavement that happened 150 years ago, but yet he still wants the right to operate his business or operate his career in a building built by enslaved people. we have no problem taking the credit, the benefits for what was done in our past, but when you start talking to people about actually paying that back or some sort of evenness around that -- there's a lot of discomfort that comes up. i understand that. i would also like to take only my paycheck and not have to pay my bills. i would like that, too. that would be great. but i think if this idea of

patriotism and citizenship is to mean anything, as i say, you can be a fair weather friend to your country. you can't decide your past only matters that you want to invoke your country as a land of the free when you want to go invade iraq, for instance, that when you're being called to be responsible for what made it possible for the country to be called land of the free in the first place, to act like you don't owe anybody anything, and as i said yesterday, when a lot of this happen in your lifetime. it isn't the past. it happen while you are alive will stop which mcconnell was 26 euros all by the time the voting rights act was passed. the is very well within lifetime of living people today. amy: a want to go to coleman hughes, the commonest from columbia university who spoke out against reparations. >> i understand that reparations are about what people are owed regardless of how well they're

doing. i understand that. the people who are owed for slavery are no longer here and we are not entitled to collect on their debts. reparations by definition are only given to victims. so the moment you give me reparations, you made me into a victim without my consent. amy: ta-nehisi coates, can you respond to coleman hughes testified at the same hearing that you let off? >> i think the testimony was that one should not receive payment that would probably -- properly be due to the enslaved. but this country to this very day is receiving payment that was due to its enslavement. that is the way inheritance works. however one might feel about that. if i similar a mass of money, the right to pass that onto my kid and my kid has the right to pass it on.

so there is something fundamentally in just if i have secured that money by taking it from one group and then i pass that money onto my kid. my kid, by the way, continues to do in justice to the descendents of that other group. and we are allowed to continually collect. i don't want to fall into this trap -- i really, really tried to make this clear yesterday. this did not and would enslavement. reparations is not just about enslavement. it was 250 years of enslavement, that period of that. after that, 100 years of terror. i would argue our present system of mass incarceration emerges out of that. this notion that a nation -- especially when we're talking about its debits -- that it only lasts through the lifetime of its present generation is clearly ridiculous.

the status of would fall apart if that were true. all of our treaties were broken if we said to pensionaires we will no longer pay you because the people who made the decisions about those wars are no longer alive. we would have a huge problem. to this very day -- or as recently as 2017, we were paying theirss to the a civil war widows. amy: ta-nehisi coates, we have to break and i want to point out ta-nehisi is speaking to us from washington, d.c., speaking front of an image of the capital, which was built by enslaved people. ta-nehisi coates, author of a number of books including "we were eight years in power: an american tragedy." it includes his case for reparations. we will be back in a moment.

♪ [music break] amy: this is democracy now!, i'm amy goodman with nermeen

shaikh. nermeen: democratic presidential contender joe biden is under fire for fondly reminiscing about his civil relationship with segregation senators in the 1970's and 1980's. speaking at a fund-raiser at the carlyle hotel in new york city on tuesday night, biden expressed nostalgia for his relationship with the late democratic pro- segregation senators james o. eastland of mississippi and herman talmadge of georgia. biden reportedly said -- "i was in a caucus with james o. eastland. he never called me boy, he called me son." amy: biden went on to say -- "a guy like herman talmadge, one of the meanest guys i ever knew, you go down the list of all these guys. well, guess what? at least there was some civility. we got things done." he was widely criticized by other democratic presidential contenders and asked on wednesday if he would apologize. >> are you going to apologize? >> apologized for what?

he knows better. in myis not a racist bone body. i've been involved in civil rights my whole career. period. period, period, feeling. amy: he spoke after cory booker issued a statement reading -- not "vice president biden's relationship with pro-segregationist or not the model for how we make america a safer and more inclusive place for black people and for everyone. frankly, i'm disappointed he is not issued an immediate apology for the pain his words are dredging up for many americans. he should." amy: other candidates also weighed in post up senator bernie sanders tweeted -- "i agree with cory booker, this is especially true at a time when the trump administration is try to divide us up with racist appeals." new york mayor deblasio wrote "it is 2019 and joe biden is longing for the good old days of civility typified by james is

linda. you slim but my multiracial family should be illegal in that whites were entitled to the pursuit of dead n-words." kamala harris said -- senator warren said -- , your thoughts? >> it is just more of the same. amy: should biden apologize? >> joe biden should not be president. obviously, i don't think i'm breaking any news here. if he ends up being the nominee, better him than trump, but i think that is a really low standard. i think when you have somebody who is celebrating their relationship, their ability of a person who so no problem

depriving an entire population of african-americans in their state of the right to vote, the right to participate as american citizens, the fact that person was polite to them? it is nice that you slim has never called -- tell much, whoever was, never called biden boy. but the fact of the matter is, joe biden owns his very presence to the first like president, barack obama. it for up to eastland and talmad ge obama would not exist. idle know what is going on in tor brain where you decide celebrate the fact these people were polite. they could afford to be polite inause the major opposition their state, that being african-americans, was effectively at that time, in their time most of the career, wiped out of the political process and erased as nola trip.

joe biden says he is been involved in civil rights his entire career. joe biden opposed busing and bragged about it in the 1970's. he is on the record as being to the right of actually the new democrat in the 1990's on the issue of mass incarceration. wanted more people sentenced to the death penalty, more people jailed. i'm not surprised. this is who joe biden is. someone shows you who they are, believe it. this is who joe biden is. nermeen: what about your assessment of the other candidates in the democratic presidential field? >> you are trying to get megan, huh?gain, [laughter] nermeen: you met with senator warren. >> i did. nermeen: can you talk about that? >> uh, no.

not this time. amy: what are you paying particular attention to with these candidates? i mean, it was interesting yesterday after biden made his comments to donors on tuesday night and said, eastland did not call me "boy, he called me son." senator eastland, who talked about african-americans as the inferior race was called the voice of the white south. yes, she pointed out, he did not call him boy, joe biden is first two people to speak out as far as i could tell were first cory booker and then he referred to corey and said corey should apologize to him, joe biden, and then as well you had kamala harris speaking out, the african-american senator from california. and then warren and biden --

rather, warren and bernie sanders and a blah zero. but what are you looking for in these candidates? the stands you want to see them likeg narco >> i think our to see somebody -- listen, it is understandable where a large portion of this country is. they want to see somebody who can beat trump. i get that. there is a feeling i think among certain people that joe biden can out white man donald trump. i don't think anyone can out white man donald trump. i hope what we will see eventually is something more than "i can beat donald trump." i get that beating donald trump is extremely, externally important. i get that. i hope that is the floor and not the ceiling. nermeen: one of the leading contenders is senator bernie sanders in the 2020 upcoming

elections. i would like to go to him being questioned about the issue of reparations earlier this year. >> i happen to believe that at a time of tremendous disparity -- the wealth gap for example -- put in the white community in the black community is like 10 to one, health disparities are .errible i think what we've got to do is pay attention to distressed communities, black communities, latino communities, and white communities come all over this country. as president, i pledged to do that. reparations?pport >> what do you mean? what does it mean exactly? >> money. >> i think right now our job is to address the crises facing the american people in our communities. i think there are better ways to do that than just writing a

check. nermeen: your response, ta-nehisi to his position? >> i think i should say before that, my understanding is that senator sanders now supports hr 40. i think that is where we are now. obviously, and pretty pleased about that. -- i am pretty pleased about that. listen, when we had this dustup a few weeks ago what i was repeatedly told is it is not class or race, it is both. i agree. i think all of the things that bernie sanders just listed about paying attention to distressed communities should be done and we should also have reparations. ason't see those two things in conflict. it is not clear to me why both cannot be -- it was never clear to me why both can't be on the agenda. why one can't associate themselves with a massive gaps in the wealth that don't just exist in the african-american community, but exist in

communities across the country. and at the same time, recognize there something specific about the gap in the african-american communities tied to the specificity of american history. sandersy that senator supports hr 40. i think that is progress. amy: finally, where does the bill go from here? and talk about the name, hr 40, where it comes from. from thesly, it comes field order given by general mulean, the 40 acres and a , reference back to that. i don't know where this goes. i don't know where this goes. i am shocked we are here. i'm surprised we're even here. i'm a writer and a journalist for soon-to-be novelist. those are my preoccupations. that is my disposition. i'm not a very good prognosticator. i would have told you he would have had a black president in 2008. i would not have told you there would have been hearings in the

house floor on reparations, on hr 40. i would not have predicted any of that. i don't know where we go. in my mind, i try not to get too high and try not to get too low as a said. in my mind, this is still a generational struggle. i expected it will continue to fight the battle. there is always been a generational struggle. amy: ta-nehisi coates, thank you for being with us, author o