10/16/19 10/16/19 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> i'm the only one on the stage that has gotten really anything big done. >> you have the disastrous war in iraq done. you got a bankruptcy bill which is hurting middle-class families all over this country, you got trade agreements like nafta and pntr with china done, which has cost us 4 million jobs. amy: 12 democratic presidential candidates faced off on the middle east, guns, reproductive

rights, impeachment, healthcare, and more at a debate in ohio . senator elizabeth warren, who is now leading some national polls, rerepeatedly came under attack from her rivals. is the goldfor all standard. it is the way we get health care coverage for every single american, including the family whose child has been diagnosed with cancer, including the person who has just gotten an ms diagnosis. >> i appreciate elizabeth's work, but the difference between a plan and a pipe dream is something that you can actually get done. amy: we will air highlights from the debate and host a roundtable discussion. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. 12 candidates took to the stage for the fourth democratic presidential debate in westerville, ohio, t tuesday to spar over healthcare, foreign policy, impeachment, gun

violence, reproductive rights, and economic inequality. cnn and new york times moderators failed to ask a single question about the climate crisis or immigration. massachusetts senator elizabeth warren, who is now leading some national polls, repeatedly came under attack from her rivals. this is warren on president trump's withdrawal of troops from northern syria and turkey's ongoing deadly air and ground assault in the region. >> so i think we ought to get out of the middle east. i don't think we should have troops in the middle east. but we have to do it the right way, the smart way. what this president has done is he has sucked up to dictators. he has made impulsive decicisios that often his own team doesn't understand. he has cut and run on our allies. and he has enriched himself at the expense of the united states of america. in syria, has created a bigger than ever humanitarian crisis.

he has helped isis get another foothold, a new lease on life. amy: warren was responding to congress woman tulsi gabbard sing the u.s. should leave the middle east. joe biden faced questioning about his son's dealings in ukraine and claim he and his son did nothing wrong a mixed ongoing impeachment proceedings against president trump. bernie sanders call for green new deal, medicare for all, and defended his plan to tax the rich. >> when you have half-a-million americans sleeping out on the streets today, when you have 87 million people uninsured or underinsured, when you have hundreds of thousands of kids who cannot afford to go to college, and millions struggling with the oppressive burden of student debt, and then you also have three people owning more wealth than the bottom half of american society. that is a moral and economic

outrage. amy: ilhan omar announced tuesday she is endorsing sanders and his bid for the presidency. commerce members alexandria ocasio-cortez and refuted to leave are also expected to announce their support for the vermont senator. he is holding a heart -- a rally in queens, new york this week in. we will spend an hour on the residential debate after headlines. pompeii arend headed to turkey today is the turkish offensive in a kurdish control areaeas of norerern syra continues. the ground offensive began after prpresident trump withdrdrew u.. trtroops stationed in the area, clearing the way for the assault. now pence and pompeo are hoping to meet with turkish p president to stopto persuauade him the military. thisis morning, erdogan declalad he wouldld probably nonot meet h the u.s. envoys will stop he is headed to russia to meet with russian president vladimir putin in the coming days.

the committee to protect journalists reports a second reporter has died covering the conflict. the syrian kurdish reporter rasho that inein a convoy that also killed another seared reporter. humanitarian aid organizations, inclcluding doctorors without boborders, say they are being forced to suspspend their opererations in northern syria amidst the ongoing fighting, which has already force more than 100,0,000 people to flee te area, i including mohammed. >> we e are coming here but our families and relatives have not come yet and the conditions are very bad. some of them are sick and d some others arere elderly people. we call a cocon president -- we call upon president assad to open the borders. deparartment justice fileled fraud d charges againste second largest state owned bank accusing the hoch bank of

helping to renovate u.s. actions. the indictment comes after the u.s. also announced sanctions against turkey over its offensive in syria. news from the ongoing impeachment inquiry, the senior state department official in charge of ukraine policy, george kent, told house committee lawmakers tuesday he was sidelined from his job by the "three amigos" -- u.s. ambassador to the european union an gordon sondland, special envy for ukraine kurt volker, and energy secretary rick perry. these three worked with trump's personal lawyer rudy giuliani on the effort to pressure ukraine to investigate trump's political rival joe biden and his son, hunter. "the washington post" reports actiting white house chief of staff mickck mulvaney told white house staff members that it was legal to block the nearly $400 million in funds to ukraine. in a july phone call, president trump mentioned the u.s. funding to ukrainian president volodymyr

zelensky, and then asked for "a favor." meanwhile, a federal grand jury in new york has subpoenaed former texas congressmember pete sessions for records and information about his interactions with giuliani and his two associates who were just arrested at the dulles airport trying to board a one-way flight to vienna, and were charged with campaign finance violations. reportedly, if they had made it to vienna, they were meeting once again with rudolph giuliani. in more news from capitol hill, 18 leaders from human rights and faith organizations were arrested in a civil disobedience action protesting the trump administration's efforts to gut the refugee resettlement program. last month, the administration proposed accepting only 18,000 refugees over the next year. that's down from the 110,000-person limit set by president obama during his final year in office. tuesday's arrests on capitol hill came as secretary o of stae

mike pompeo was meeting privately with congressmembers to discuss trump's plan to cap the number refugees admitted into the country at the lowest level since the program began four decades ago. in pennsylvania, a british family has been held in immigration detention at the berks family residential center after they say they mistakenly drove across the u.s.-canada border during a vacation to vancouver. eileen connors and her family, including her three-month-old son, were then taken into u.s. custody and transferred into detention, where they are waiting to be deported. in a sworn statement, connors describes the conditions inside berks as "frigid" and "filthy" and said -- "we will be traumatized for the rest of our lives by what the united states government has ne to us.. we have been treated like criminals here, stripped of our rights, and lied to." to see our full coverage of the berks detention center, go to democracynow.org.

human rights organizations are condemning the egyptian government for the detention and torture of journalist and human rights activist esraa abdel fattah. egyptian security forces abducted her from her car at night on october 12. she says she was then beaten and strangled by officers. she is one of at least 3000 people who have been arrested since rare protests against egyptian leader abdel-fattah el-sisi late last month. in lebanon, over 100 wildfires have swept across the country since monday, burning forested areas and killing at least one person. officials say the flames are fueled by a heat wave. lebanon called foror internaonol help from neighboring countries to fight the fires, which officials s are calling g the wt fires to hit lebanon in decades. in mexico, the senate is slated to vote on legislation to legalize marijuana in the coming days. the bill's passage would mark a major shift away from the

u.s.-backed drug war in mexico, which has killed tens of thousands of people since it began in 2006. this is mexican senator ricardo monreal, a member of mexican president t andres manuel lopez obrador's s morena pty. >> eliminating prohibition in the country is going to. i think the possibility of regulating consumption, the cultivation, commercialization is a good thing. also, heating toward industrial use is also good. i think mexico is prepared to take on such a position on such trajectory. ththere are forces like thatat f the president who has said this should be a a national consultation, which is under consideratioion, which is pendi, and which is under discussion. amy: in canada, a memember of te momohawk commumunity in sosouthn quebec has gone on a hunger strike amid an escalating land

struggle between the first nations tribe and real estate developers. the residents are asking prime minister justin trudeau to implement a short-term moratorium on all development in their territory. trudeau has promised reconciliation with canada's first nanations. he is fafacing the p possibilitf being unseated in canada's federal elections next weeeek. this is ellen gabriel. >> because the govovernment t hs been ignorining us fofor many generationons, but in particular with his govovernment ththat promomised we wowould be the mot importanant r relationship in ca , and it t wasn''t. soso a hunger r strike to provie some light to this cplplex issue that thehe people have been fighting for for many, many generations.s. amy: it is the site of the so called "oka crisis" in 1990, when mohawks held off the

canadian armed f forces for 77 days, and stopped the development of a golf course and condominiums on one of their burial grounds. in california, to fuel storage tanks exploded in crockett outside san francisco tuesday. the fire burned for nearly eight hours, shut down part of interstate 80. ustar says it is investigating whether the earthquake nearby could have contributed to the explosion at the facility. msnbc's chris hayes took aim at his own network in the closing minutes of his show "all in with chris hayes" monday, praising ronan farrow's new book "catch and kill," which accuses nbc of burying farrow's reporting on the serial rapist harvey weinstein. his book also accuses nbc executives of knowing about multiple sexual misconduct allegations against now fired nbc host matt lauer, who is accused of raping fellow nbc producer brooke nevils in 2014 while the two covered the winter

olympics in sochi, russia. this is chris hayes. >> my own newsws organization is embroiled in a very public controversy over conduct. as you have probably seen in his new book "catch and kill," ronan farrow contends nbc news slow walked in and ultimately killed his reporting on rv weinstein sexual harassment and assault because it was intimidated by weinstein and did not want to cross him. most distressing, pharaoh suggests nbc was worried about allegations of sexual assault agaiainst matt lauer as a resust ofepeporting on weinstein desperately wanted to avoid that. onone thing is in dispute. ronan farrow walked out of nbc news after working on the story and within two months, published an incredible article that not helpwon a pulitzer but trigger a massssive reckoning tt contntinues to this s day. it is the kind of journalism that you want to do as a journalist. amy: that was chris hayes of

msnbc. and tarana burke, the founder of the #metoo campaign is launching a new effort to mobilize 2020 voters. the new campaign's hashtag is #metoovoter, aiming to pressure candidates to speak about sexual violence and harassment on the campaign trail. on tuesday, tarana burke said -- "you can't have 12 million people respond to a hashtag in this country and they not be constituents, taxpayers, and voters. we need these candidates to see us as a power base. so many people engage with survivors from a place of pity." and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. juan: and i'm juan gonzalez. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. 12 candidates took to the stage for the fourth round of the democratic presidential debate in westerville, ohio tuesday to

, spar over healthcare, foreign policy, impeachment, gun violence, economic inequality, and more. senator elizabeth warren, who is now leading some national polls, repeatedly came under attack from her rivals over how she plans to pay for some of her plans, including medicare for all. it was the first debate since senator bernie sanders suffered a heart attack two weeks ago that forced him to temporarily cancel campaign events. on tuesday night, cnn host erin burnett asked senator sanders about his health. >> there is a question on a lot of peoples minds, and i want to address it tonight. you're 78 years old and you just had a heart attack. how do you reassure democratic voters that you're up to the stress of the presidency? >> well, let me invite you all to a major rally we're having in queens, new york. bernie sanders.com. we will have a special guest at the event, and we are going to be mounting a vigorous campaign all over this country.

atatatthat is how i think i can reassure the american people. but let me take this moment, if i might, to thank so many people from all over this country, including many of my colleagues up here for their love, for their prayers, for their well wishes. i just want to thank you from the bottom of my heart and i'm soso happy to be back here with you this evening. amy: on tuesday, ilhan omar announced she is endorsing sanders in his bid for the presidency. congress members alexandria ocasio-cortez and refuted to leave are also expected to announce their support for the vermont senator. aoc will be joining him at his rally in queens this weekend. at tuesday's debate, the democratic candidates also took aim at president trump's recent move to withdraw support from the kurds in northern syria, paving the way for turkey to invade the region. former health secretary julian castro criticized trump for letting former isis fighters

escape from kurdish control jails. clubs i also want people to thank the folks of the people who saw the images of isis prisoners running free to think about how absurd it is that this president is caging kids on the bordrder and effectively letting isis prisoners run free. juan: former vice president joe biden attacked the proposals of bernie sanders and elizabeth warren. this is anderson cooper. >> president -- vice president biden, senator warren is calling for structural change in senator sanders is calling for political revolution. will their visions attract the kind of voters that the democrats need to be -- beat donald trump? >> i think their vision is attracting a lot of people. i think of lot of what they're having to say is important. beator warren said we can't running any vague campaigns. we have to level with people. we have to level with people and tell them exactly what we're going to do and how we're going to get it done and if we can get

it done. i'm going to say something that is probably going to offend some people but i'm the only one on this stage was it really gotten from thebig done , violence against women act to making sure that we pass the affordable care act to being in a position where we, in fact, took almost a $90 billion act that kept us from going into a depression, making us -- putting us in a position where i was able to end roe -- excuse me, able to end the issue of gun sales in terms of assault weapons. >> just to clarify, who are you saying is being vague? >> well, the senator said -- she's being vague on the issue of -- actually, both are being vague on the issue of medicare for all. no, look, here's the deal. come on. it costs $30 trillion. guess what? that's over $3 trillion -- it's more than the entire federal budget -- let me finish, ok? >> you'll both get in. >> if you eliminated the entire pentagon, every single thing, plane, ship, troop, the buildings, everything, satellites, it would get you --

it would pay for a total of four months. four months. where do you get the rest? where does it come from? >> two things. >> senator sanders, respond. >> joe, you talked about working with republicans and getting things done. but you know what you also got done? and i say this as a good friend. you got the disastrous war in iraq done. you got a bankruptcy bill, which is hurting middle-class families all over this country. you got trade agreements, like nafta and pntr, with china done, which have cost us 4 million jobs. now, let's get to medicare for all. let's be honest. we spend twice as much per person as do the people of any other major country on earth. and the answer is, if we have the guts that i would like to see the democratic party have that guts, to stand up to the drug companies and the insurance companies and tell them that the function of health care is to guarantee care to all people, not to make $100 billion in profit.

>> thank you, senator. >> if we stood together, we could create the greatest health care system in the world. >> we can do that without medicare for all. we can do that by adding a public option. >> no. >> we can. >> you've got to take on the greed and the profiteering of the health care industry. >> senator warren, your response? >> so you started this question with how you got something done. you know, following the financial crash of 2008, i had an idea for a consumer agency that would keep giant banks from cheating people. and all of the washington insiders and strategic geniuses said, don't even try, because you will never get it passed. and sure enough, the big banks fought us. the republicans fought us. some of the democrats fought us. but we got that agency passed into law. it has now forced big banks to return more than $12 billion directly to people they cheated. i served in the obama administration. i know what we can do by executive authority, and i will use it.

in congress, on the first day, i will pass my anti-corruption bill, which will beat back the influence of money. and repeal the filibuster. and the third, we want to get something done in america, we have to get out there and fight. >> thank you, senator. >> i agree. let me -- she referenced me. i agreed with the great job she did, and i went on the floor and got you votes. i got votes for that bill. i convinced people to vote for it. so let's get those things straight, too. >> senator warren,n, do you u wt to respond? [applause] >> i am deeply grateful to president obama, who fought so hard to make sure that agency was passed into law, and i am deeply grateful to every single person who fought for it and who helped pass it into law.

but understand -- >> you did a hell of a job in your job. >> thank you. amy: elizabeth warren, joe biden. for more, we will host a roundtable in new york city. kate and dr. by steffie woolhandler. in washington, d.c., mehdi hasan . in rochester, new york, investigative reporter david cay johnston, founder and editor of dcreport.org. mehdi hasan, your overall impression of the debate? three are debate involving 12 candidates and we did not get a single question on the climate crisis,, which threatens our future on this planet, did not get a single queststion on racit voter suppression which threatens dedemocracy in this country. we did notot get t the single question on kids being abused

and caged at the border, which is one of the s single bibiggest human rights abuseses in the country. we did not g get a single word n yememen. we did get a question about ellenn and george w.ush. there wawas a lot missing from e debate. what you just played rightht noi think is the most important part of the debate for me b because i haveve been astounded that jojoe biden is being consisidered a fronont runner in this d democrc presidentitial race so far. i hope after last night, we can and ththis idea that he e is a t runner. elizizabeth wawarren went inin e new frfront warner. i think biden has to be takeken out of the t top thrhree. my colleague hasas talked about his sunsetting incoherence that we see on thatat's like e this. normally he's been's the first ish andat least strong- fades. last night he was weak from the get go. you could not answer single basic question about his son. he rambled.

he stuttered. he stumbled. he confused thirdly was secondly and d confused a witith syria. he talked about abolishing the capital gains tax when he met he wanted to raise it. as you saw a a net cringe worthy clip a moment ago, he shouted and patronized elizabeth warren. we saw pete bututtigieg come e t swinging tryrying to take ththe biden "moderate mantle" but really there should only be two front r runners right now, bebee sanders anand elizabeth warrrre, both of whom were very strong less time. it was a strong eye for bernie sanders. -- it was a strong not for bernie sanders. juan: marielena hincapie? >> there was no discussion about the climate crisis. it is irresponsible. the new york times and cnn should be ashamed for r doing

that. we saw a few weeks ago climate strikers, gradeschool children, who are giving up their recesses, lunches, everything to plan climate strikes because they know the earth will be a very different place within their lifetime. the earth already is a different place for many people. and the fact is the climate crisis is not an issue, neatly defined, it is which all politics and 21st century will play out. to ignore that fact when we have discussion and such on foreign policy is obscene. and the fact cnn come all of the major networks reliably run add content from fossil fuel companies, including last night, from climate denying organinizations, is just unconscionable and they should really take stock. juan: and the issue of hunter biden, which the vice president was asked about early on in the debate and he kept saying, i am proud of my son, but at the same time, referring to his son's

interview that same day where he was actually apologizing saying he may have made some mistakes? >> on the one hand, this is classic biden, not being able to keep his thoughts straight for 15 seconds. on the other hand, this is a real issue. hunter biden worked for natural gas company in ukraine. you can believe the impeachment process needs to move forward, valuable thing to be investigated, the president stepped out of line. you can also say this is a shady a worldr joe biden in in which just four years ago, the right sort of wielded hillary clinton sort of insider status, position as being the sort of continuation of the obama era against her so effectively. amy: let's go to anderson cooper questioning joe biden about his son hunter. >> if it is not ok for a president's family to be involved in foreign businesses, why was it ok for your son when you were vice president.

vice president biden? >> my son did nothing wrong. i did nothing wrong. i carried out the policy of the united states government in rooting out corruption in ukraine. and that's what we should be focusing on. and what i wanted to make a point about -- and my son's statement speaks for itself. he spoke about it today. my son's statement speaks for itself. what i think is important is we focus on why it's so important to remove this man from office. cook's mr. vice presisident, you said your son hunter today gave an interview, admitted he made a mistake and showed poor judgment by serving on that board of ukraine. did you make a mistake by letting him? you were the point person on ukraine at the time. you can answer. >> look, my son's statement speaks for itself. i did my job. i never discussed a single thing with my son about anything having do with ukraine. no one has indicated i have. we've always kept everything separate. even when my son was the attorney general of the state of delaware, we never discussed

anything, so there would be no potential conflict. my son made a judgment. i am proud of the judgment he made. i'm proud of what he had to say. and let's focus on this. the fact of the matter is that this is about trump's corruption.. amy: that is joe biden defending his son hunter. kate, you wrote a piece "we need toto talk about hunter biden." >> i think you heard it right there. the fact that biden is sort of walking over himself to defend the conduct of his son, who was working for a natural gas company. and because his last name is biden, right, there is no reason that he would have that job if you weren't related to joe biden. the fact is, u.s. foreign policy, including in ukraine, have spent years and decades propping up fossil feel interests and supporting fossil fuel interest. that is a problem. it is a missed opportunity for bernie sanders and elizabeth

warren to raise that. the reason joe biden was in ukraine in large p part was to support the fossil fuel industry there. his son was actively profiting off it. amy: i suppose it would get over -- in the way of the impeachment message, which they all seem to agree with last n night. the david cay johnston, if you can talk about that issue of impeachment. there they did not disagree. yes, hunter biden, but also trump's children and how they are benefiting today? >> i think all of last nights debate show the democrats come all 12 of them come have not thought well about how do you market to people? donald trump, the most corrupt president, most competent president, a lifetime criminal, has persuaded tens of millions of americans that he loves them, that he is working for them while he is actively working against them. the democrats did not reach out to those people and say here is

what we can do for y you. in the impeachment process, congress has to impeach him. he has publicly declared he has committed criminal a acts. whether he is convicted, we have yet to see. the democrats should have been tryiying to move republican senators, if anything, so they have to vote to remove donald trump -- which we know many of them want to do, except they are afraid they will be voted out in the primary. but in the arguments made last night in this debate, the democrats on that panel did not very much talk about what we will do for you. put us in office, you will no longer go broke if you get sick. we will raise wages for people in the bottom half in this country. we are going to improve your lot by building an economy that works for everybody. they talk, in many cases, and very abstract terms. elizabeth warren, who is highly whenfied in some cases,

professorial. i'm sure her points came across blah becauseblah she was not thinking and simple marketing terms. issue, she was pretty specific on her wealth tax. she zeroed in on that. and interestingly, got a lot of pushback from andrew yang, who pointed to the fact that european governments have tried a wealth tax and little by little, each of them or most of them have repealed that wealth tax. could you talk about the wealth tax? one, is a viable or is it even constitutional? it is constitutional. the original tax in this country was a national property tax. the problem is, very, very wealthy people don't have their wealth in easily measured forms like stock portfolios. so lots of people will be able to easilily evade a wealth tax.

the idea that we are not properly taxing people at the top is absolutely spotot on correct. so one of the first things the democrats should have been saying i is, when you u die, w'e not going to l let you give away your entire fortune to your favorite charity and pay no tax. we are going to tax that money when you die or a signgnificant portion of it. yang onon that poinint is correct but on the other hand, bernie sanders,, especially elizabeth warrenen, are exactly right. we are exactctly right. we''re not taxing pepeople at te top properly. we have cut t the tax rate of people at the vevery top by more than half f in the last 60 year. for r people in the bottom 90%,e have raised their taxes. that is crazy. amy: let's go to erin burnett questioning senator bernie sanders on this. >> senator sanders, when you introduced your wealth tax, which would tax the assets of the wealthiest americans, you

said billionaires should not exist." is the goal of your plan to tax billionaires out of existence? >> when you have half-a-million americans sleeping out on the 87eet today, when you have people -- 87 million people uninsured or underinsured, when you've got hundreds of thousands of kids who cannot afford to go to college, and millions struggling with the oppressive burden of student debt, and then you also have three people owning more wealth than the bottom half of american society, that is a moral and economic outrage. and the truth is, we cannot afford to continue this level of income and wealth inequality. and we cannot afford a billionaire class, whose greed and corruption has been at war with the working families of this country for 45 years. so if you're asking me do i

think we should demand that the wealthy start paying -- the wealthiest, top 0.1%, start paying their fair share of taxes so we can create a nation and a government that works for all of us? yes, that's exactly what i believe. >> thank you, senator. [applause] mr. steyer, you are ththe lone billionaire on this stage. what's your plan for closing the income gap? >> well, first of all, let me say this. senator sanders is right. there have been 40 years where corporations have bought this government, and those 40 years have meant a 40-year attack on the rights of working people and specifically on organized labor. and the results are as shameful as senator sanders says, both in terms of assets and in terms of income. it's absolutely wrong. it's absolutely undemocratic and unfair. i was one of the first people on this stage to propose a wealth tax. i would undo every republican

tax cut for rich people and major corporations. but there's something else going on here that is absolutely shameful, and that's the way the money gets split up in terms of earnings. as a result of taking away the rights of working people and organized labor, people haven't had a raise -- 90% of americans have not had a raise for 40 years. if you took the minimum wage from 1980 and just adjusted it for inflation, you get $11 . it's $7.25. if you included the productivity gains of american workers, it would be over there's something $20. wrwrong here, and ththat is thae corporations have bought our government. our government has failed. that's why i'm running for president, because we're not going to get any of the policies that everybody on this stage wants -- health care, education, green new deal, or a living wage. >> thank you, mr. steyer. >> unless we break the power of these corporations. >> vice president biden, you

have warned against demonizing rich people. do you believe that senator sanders and senator warren's wealth tax plans do that? >> no, look demonizing wealth -- , what i talked about is how you get things done. and the way to get things done is take a look at the tax code right now. the idea -- we have to start rewarding work, not just wealth. i would eliminate the capital gains tax -- i would raise the capital gains tax to the highest rate of 39.5%. i would double because guess what? why in god's name should someone who's clipping coupons in the stock market make -- in fact, pay a lower tax rate than someone who, in fact, is -- like i said schoolteacher and a , a firefighter? it's s ridiculousus. and they pay a lower tax. amy: that is vice president joe biden before him, tim steyer, who -- this is his first debate. mehdi hasan, a quick comment? >> it was amusing to see the lone billionaire on stage singg

bernie sanders right about billioionaires. i wawas a this quickly to my god frfriend david cay j johnston, t where he is coming frorom on the kind off democratic party messaging when it comes to things like income inequality and taxes and wealth. i do think, though, warren and sanders were pretty clear. i think warren is clear when she talks about her wealth tax about sticking to since on every extra dollar abouthe $50 million. i thought she had a good line last night when she aliligned herself with bernie sasanders. were she said bernie and i, stand for r wealth t tax and i't understandnd what other people n this stage are more interested in p protecting billiononaires n investing entirere generations f amerericans. i thought that was a strong line and interesting how she put herself and berernie susupper te other 10 on stage, which annoyed an klobuchar so much. and anything that annoys any closure is s a good thing. amy: became joints and, you are a pulitzer prize winning journalist. could you explain the

stockbrokers clipping coupons? >> in this country if you own capital, your tax rate i is much lower if you are in the top tier of americans and that is where you are if you are owning capital that if you're working person. he is exactly right. we are overtaxing work and we are under taxing capital. we absolutely need to tax these billionaires, many of whom don't just not pay taxes. some of them literally turn a profit off the income tax system because of what are called deferral rules. i i ll h have a book out in a little over a year on a system that puts an end to that makes everybody pay their taxes the same way workers do. amy: we're going to go to break and when we,, medicare for all. we have a doctor in the house, dr. steffie woolhandler. we're talking to mehdi hasan, david cay johnston, and kate aronoff. we will alsoso speak to immigrat rights leader about what wasn't talked about. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

this is democracy now!, i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. continue to look at

last night's democratic debate, we turn now to the issue of health care. this is south bend mayor pete to judge speaking last night. >> i don't think the american people a are wrong when they say that what they want is a choice. and the choice of medicare for all who want it, which is affordable for everyone because we make sure the subsidies are in place, allows you to get that health care. it is just better than medicare for all, whether you want it or not. i don't understand why you believe the only way to deliver affordable coverage is to obliterate private plans, kicking 150 million americans off their insurance and four for years when we could achieve that same big, bold goal and once again, we have a president that we're competing to be president of the day after trump. our country will be horrifyingly polarized, even more than now, after everything we've been through, after everything we are about to go through, this country will be even more divided. why unnecessarily divide this country over health care when there's a better way to deliver

coverage for all? >> senator sanders? >> as somebody who wrote the damn bill, as i said, let's be clear. under the medicare for all bill that i wrote, premiums are gone. co-payments are gone. deductibles are gone. all out-of-pocket expenses are gone. we're going to do better than the canadians do, and that is what they have managed to do. at the end of the day, the overwhelming majority of people will save money on their health care bills. but i do think it is appropriate to acknowledge that taxes will go up. they're going to go up significantly for the wealthy. and for virtually everybody, the tax increase they pay will be substantially less -- substantially less than what they were paying for premiums and out-of-pocket expansions. -- expenses. >> senator warren, will you acknowledge what the senator just said about taxes going up?

>> so my view on this, and what i have committed to, is costs will go down for hardworking, middle-class families. i will not embrace a plan like medicare for all who can afford it that will leave behind millions of people who cannot. and i will not embrace a plan that says people have great insurance right up until you get the diagnosis and the insurance company says, "sorry, we're not covering your expensive cancer treatments, we're not covering your expensive treatments for ms." thank you, senator. >>thank you, senator. senator klobuchar. >> "we're not covering what you need." >> i spent most of my time studying one basic question and that is why h hard-working peope go broke. one of the principal reasons for that is the cost of health care. and back when i was studying to out of every three families that ended up in bankruptcy after a serious medical problem had health insurance.

the problem we've got right now is the overall cost of health care. and, look, you can try to spin this any way you want. i've spent my entire life on working on how america's middle class has been hollowed out and how we fight back. i've put out nearly 50 plans on how we can fight back and how we can rebuild an america that works. and a part is that is we have got to stop -- >> thank you, senator. >> americans from going bankrupt over health care costs. amy: that was senator elizabeth warren talking about medicare for all. the questioner was mark lacey. steffie woolhandler, your response and the refusal of elizabeth warren to be pigeonholed by the question as to whether taxes would be raised? >> i think the framing of that question is crazy. what really matters is how much i household is paying.

as senator sanders said, you're going to be paying so much less in premiums, co-pays, deductibles that you're going to be paying less total for health today.en you are right? you're going to be paying a little more taxes, but you will be paying less a premiums and co-pays and deductibles. an overall, you will be better off financially. that is the correct framing. and you sit around and obsess about whether you pay that $3000 as a tax or that $3000 as a premium, is the wrong framing. that is really what senator myren was rejecting, and opinion. amy: that is how the media always frames it, the corporate media. >> the corporate media is always framing it -- or: that stops every five six minutes for a drug commercial. >> it is quite disingenuous because pete buttigieg and health policy analysts of the world to understand that. they do know people in other

nations with single-payer medicare for all pay a lot less for the health care that people do in the united states. but they use that little trick about talking about taxes is something horrible but premiums, co-pays, deductibles as something good. they use that trick. juan: is a clear what pete buttigieg means for medicare for all for those who want it? >> is seems like he is endorsing names that goes by many which would involve large subsidies for people to purchase medicare-like plan if they wanted it, but people in private insurance because their employer purchased it, could state in the private insurance. the problem is, it is much more expensive than medicare for all because if you include private insurance, are also including their massive overhead and profits, which averaged 12% of more.premiums come often

continuing to waste hundreds of billions of dollars in the excess administrative cost and doctor's offices and hospitals because doctors and hospitals have to deal with multiple insurers. the whole idea of single-payer medicare for all is you have a single payment system, can shrink that huge bureaucracy, yearabout $500 billion a by shrinking that bureaucracy and that $500 billion is the money you need to cover everyone and eliminate copayments and deductibles. an pete buttigieg is saying, oh, we can have our cake and eat it too. we could have private insurance and the hundreds of billions of dollars of wasteful bureaucracy and overhead and we are still going to be able to afford medicare for all. ,my: dr. steffie woolhandler you were a supporter of bernie sanders before and a close ally of elizabeth warren, both professors at harvard. she did use a term medicare for

all who can afford it. what does she mean? >> she was making fun of pete buttigieg's proposal because the medicare extra plan, which i think he is talking about, read ours people to make -- continue to pay substantial premiums, copayments, deductibles, even though they would get some subsidies. she is just saying, and i think with a correct point, that this medicare extra for all, it is so expensive, so administrative waste, that we are going to get less coverage at a higher cost than what we could get with medicare for all. amy: if you could quickly comment as a medical doctor on bernie sanders' heart attack? people were commenting -- i mean, he looks so much better in this debate in the last one. he seemed like he had the flu the last one but was not admitting it. that is separate completely from a heart attack. >> heart disease is not the death sentence it once was. millions of people have heart attacks.

amy: cheney had like six of them. >> any are walking down the street on 7th avenue, we probably passed several of them on the way here to the studio. some people get very sick immediately from their first heart attack. some people have a mild heart attack and go on for years and decades working hard and able to function. obviously, senator sanders was very well able to function last night. to say millions of people with heart disease are qualified from participation in politics is discriminatory and nine necessary -- and unnecessary. amy: we're are talking about the fourth round of democratic presidential primary debate that took place last night in ohio. there were 12 candidates, tom steyer was added to the mix. stay with us. ♪ [music brbreak]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. coverage ofcontinue the democratic debate, let's turn to the issue of foreign policy posted congress woman tulsi gabbard of hawaii pusheded for ending where she called regime change wars in the middle east. >> donald trump has the blood of the kurds on his hand, but so do many of the politicians in our country from both parties who

have supported this ongoing regime change war in syria that started in 2011, along with many in the mainstream media, who have been championing and cheerleading this regime change war. as president, i will end these regime change wars by doing two things -- ending the draconian sanctions that are really a modern-day siege the likes of which we are seeing saudi arabia wage against yemen, that have caused tens of thousands of syrian civilians to die and to starveve, and i would makeke sue that we stop supporting terrorists like al qaida in syria who have been the ground force in this ongoing regime change war. i would like to ask senator warren if she would join me in calling for an end to this regime change war in syria, finally. >> so, look, i think that we ought to get out of the middle east. i don't think we should have troops in the middddle east. but we have to do it the right way, t the smart way. what this president has done is that he has sucked up to

dictators, he has made impulsive decisions that often his own team doesn't understand, he has cut and run on our allies, and he has enriched himself at the expense of the united states of america. in syria, he has created a bigger-than-ever humanitarian crisisis. he has helped isis get another foothold, a new lease on life. juan: that was elizabeth or and and before that congresswoman tulsi gabbard. mehdi hasan, your reresponse to this excxchange? >> elizabeth warren saying she wanted troops out of the middle presisidentia candidadate realally saying they would pulul outt ofl thehe war in n the mide eastst? she clarifiedd she was referring to combat troroops specificallyn syria, that s she's in favor of withdrawing but wanted to be done in the appropriatee way -- which is the bernie sananders position a as well.

you don't cut and rurun. you don't bebeen in the kurds va a tweet. that is what she was rereferring to. tulsi gabbard was trying to get her to go fururther. gabbbbard is a fascicinating characteter, very controversial figure, someone the left like her. yeststerday's debate, she w wasf right and have wrong. she was right to say too many democrats and too many people in d.c. did suppoport a lot of syrn rebel groupups, many of whom are now the famedd darien backed by turkey who are slaughterering kurds. she is wrong say those kurds are dying because of regime change war. u.s. troops in syria were there with those kurds fighting isis, not fighting alal-assad. she is wrong about that. she e is the wrong messesenger. as much a as i woululd like to e more democratitic candidatess oppose endless wars in the middle east, tulsi gabbard is someone whwho said h herself shs a hawk and it comes to the war on terror. she is only aa dove on regime

change wars, but happy f for russiaia or assad or even the u. to b bomb any group deemed to be al qaeda. also dodgy ties to leaders l lie mod of indidia. and i yes, we need d to be talking muchch more about a list wars in the mimiddle e east. as i said at the s start of thte show, i'm glad we talked abobout terms messss up in. , bubut we d did not talk last t about yemen were bernie sanders led the senatete in opposition o u.s. involvement and that t her and this war. we did not talk about israel-palestitine, we did not tatalk about china at all inin e debate last night. the foreign policy part of the debate was lacking. amy: we're going to go to another issue that was raised by one of the candidates, former hud secretary julian castro. >> i also want people to think the folks this week that saw the images of isis prisoners running free to think about how absurd

it is that this president is caging kids on the border and effectively letting isis prisoners run free. amy: i would like to bring in marielena hincapie intnto this conversation. she is speaking to us from montgomery, alabama. talkoked too early to about all of the issues that would be raised around immigration. not one of the questioners, the moderators, on the issue of immigration, because there was no question. if you can talk about the fact this was a three-hour debate without a question on immigration? >> thank you, amy. completely agree with mehdi and kay who earlier mentioned we are talking about and planning issues of our time, immigration, climate change, so many others that were not raised. the new york times and cnn missed an important opportunity on the very day of the debate come october 15, one of the trump administration's signature

policy changes were scheduled to go into effect yesterday affecting 26 million people in the nation. this is a radical reform to our legal immigration system. we have been successful in blocking it in the courts. last friday we had about four different courts, federal courts, that blocked temporarily the administration from implementing this. in awas a major gap three-hour debate. we expect much more, not just from the media, but also from the candidates. amy: and on the issue of the latest news, the border wars book coming out from the two new york times reporters that raised president trump in the white house, pushing for migrants to be shot when his staff told him that would be illegal, he said, what about shooting them in the legs? they said that, too, would be illegal. and his push for modes along border walls filled d with

alligators a and snakes? is -- every single day we are hearing new developments from this administration from this president who believes he is above the law, who is governing based on fear and chaos. frankly, dehumanizing and criminalizing emigrants. it is not just folks who are here and documented. it is people seeking asylum and refugee status in our nation. it is people who are long-term residents, people losing their immigration status whether daca yecipients or temporar status. the factor was that throughout debate with no questions about this, this could have been part of the foreign policy questions, the health-care conversation about the future of labor, immigrants and immigration issues affect all parts of our society. donald trump is running on it. hedonald trump is running on it.

he knows this is his signature issue. he k knows it will write up his base and democrats canannot contininue to simply be afraid o lean and into ththis issue. they can't be simply anti-trump. they need to be pro america and share with our vision is. amy: kate, talking about an issue that was not discussed at all but the questioners, the issue of climate change. we have about a minute left. your sense of the continued failure of the media to deal with this as a pressing a key issue of this presidential race? >> the cable news networks have a pitiful record on this. they don't cover climate change. they only bring it up when it is the most convenient for them. they take money from corporate advertisers. the last debate was sponsored by vp, for instance. this is totally absurd. a missed opportunity because we immigration and climate change, which arere so interconnected. to ignore, to pretend this is

not what the 21st century is going to be about and talk about electability, is absurd. we need to have a real discussion about whether these networks are responsible hosts for the debate. amy: the fact bernie sanders is coming back strong, a large rally in queens, aoc will be there, alexandria ocasio-cortez, ilhan omar just endorsed him full stuff the significance of the squad? yearsnie sanders spent representing the white male voters and i think that is a very hard argument t to make whn you three women of color who are endorsing him because they trust him to build a multiracial working class. democratic party. that is the party they want to fight for, think he is the best ally to help build. for the incredible win sanders campaign. amy: i want to thank you all for being with us, kate aronoff, dr. steffie woolhandler, mehdi hasan

, and david cay johnston, founder and editor of dcreport.org. as well as from montgomery, alabama, marielena hincapie. democracy now! is looking for feedback f