11/13/19 11/13/19 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> the president must be held accountable. no one is above the law. pres. trurump: it i is just a cocontinuatition of the witchhu. amy: as the house intelligence committee holds the first televised hearing in its impeachment investigation of president trump, we speak k the legendary brbrdcaster bill moyers who covered the nixon a d clclinton imimpeachment proceed.

.> the impeachment process we probably would never have known about the hidden tatapes that nixon had made had it not been for the impeachment process. so watch foror the evidence that is introduced, particularly on this first morning. amy: then we look at the political crisis in bolivia after president evo morales resigned following what he described as a coup. morales is now in mexico where he has received popolitical asylum. >> i also want to tell you, brothers and sisters, as long as i'm alive, we will stay in politics. as long as i'm alive, the fight will continue. and we are sure that the people of the world have all the rights to freedom themselves. amy: all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. televised impeachment hearings

begin today in the inquiry into whether president trump withheld military aid from ukraine to pressure the ukrainian president to investigate trump's political rival joe biden and his son. two witnesses are testifying today before the house intelligence committee -- george kent, a deputy assistant secretary of state, and william taylor, a former ambassador and the top u.s. diplomat in ukraine. both officials have privately told congressional investigators trump withheld aid to ukraine in an attempt to pressure ukraine to investigate the biden's. in now released text messages, bill taylor texted gordon sondland, the u.s. ambassador to the european union, the wealthy hotel magnate, "are we now saying security assistance in white house meeting our condition on investigations?" silent texted back "call me." today marks on the third televised impeachment hearings

in u.s. history. we will have more on today's historic hearings after headlines with the legendary journalist bill moyers, who covered the nixon and impeachment hearings. -- clinton impeachment hearings. in bolivia, right-wing senator jeanine anez declared herself president tuesday night despite a lack of quorum in congress, the same day longtime bolivian president evo morales landed in mexico, where he has received asylum. this is jeanine anez. >> as president of the chamber of senators, i immediately assume the presidency of the state as pressing in the constitutional order, and i commit myself to accept responsibility for all necessary measurures to pacify the countr. amy: evo morales' movement towards socialism party is refusing to recognize anez as president, calling her claim illegal and decrying evo morales's resignation over the weekend as a military coup. on tuesday, the organization of american states held an emergency meeting in washington, d.c., where u.s. ambassador

carlos trujillo read a statement from president donald trump applauding morales' resignation and warnining it should "send da strong signal" to venezuela and nicaragua. mexico, uruguauay, nicaragua, ad the president-elect of argentina have all denounced morales's departure as a military coup. turkish president erdogan is visiting president trump at the white house today and will hold a news conference with him this afafternoon. the visit comes amid ininternational condemnation of the recentnt turkish offensive into northern syria, which turkey launched after president trump abruptly with group u.s. troops from ththe area, clearing the way for the offensive. u.s. military officials told cnn tuesday, the pentagon has a drone surveieillance video showg a possible war crime and carried out by turkish commanded fighters in syria. last week, former national security advisor john bolton surprised miami gathering of

hedge fund managers when he said he thought trump's decisions on turkey are motivated by personal relationships or financial interest. "the new yorork times" reports three cents a law play key roles in the u.s. turkey relationship. the sudden lot of president erdogan for the son-in-law of a turkish tycoon who became a who became aner busisiness partner to the trumup organization, , and the son-in-w of presidedent trump. the supreme e court heard ororal arguments over lawsuits demanding the trump a,ministration preserve dac deferred action for childhood arrivals, the obama-era program that grants protection from deportation and a work permit to at least 700,000 undocumented people brought to the united states as children. "the new york times" reports the court's conservative majority appears poised to side with president trump in ending the

program, while some of the court's liberal justices seemed skeptical of trump's efforts. justice sonia sotomayor said on tuesday the termination of daca "is not about the law. this is about our choice to destroy lives." the supreme court also heard oral arguments tuesday in the case of slain mexican teenager sergio adrian hernandez guereca, who was shot in the face and killed in 2010 as he played in ciudad juarez by a border patrol agent who stood across the border in el paso, texas. during arguments, liberal judges expressed concerns over providing no legal relief to the families of peopople who have bn killed in cross-border shootings by u.s. agents, essentially, allowiwing federal officers on amamerican s soil to act unlawfy with impunity. but conservative justices reportedly seemed to side with

the trump administration promote justice right emerging as a potential decisive vote. the supreme court also declined to hear an appeal by gun manufacturer remington arms on tuesday, clearing the way for the families of f the 26 victims of the 2012 sandy hook elementary school shooting in newton, connecticut, to sue the firearm manufacturer. the families are arguing remington violated connecticut law when it marketed the bushmaster rifle for assaults against human beings. the supreme court's decision not to take up the case lets stand the connecticut supreme court's decision to allow the family's lawsuit to move forward. and in more legal news, a federal court in boston has ruled u.s. authorities warrantless searches of people's phones and computers at airports and other u.s. ports of entry violates the fourth amendment.

the american civil liberties union and the electronic frontier foundation, which filed the suit, celebrated the ruling as a victory for privacy rights. in more privacy news, the health and human services department has opened a federal inquiry into google's "project nightingale" program, which seeks to collect health dadata n mimillions of americans. project nightingale is a collaboration between google and ascension, the second-largest healthcare provider in the united states. in a video posted online, a whistleblower who works with the program says the cache of medical data includes the full names and medical details of millions of americans. newly released government data shows the u.s. government has detained a record number of migrant children over the past year -- nearly 70,000 babies, children, and teenagers held in

u.s. government custody. that's a 42% increase over the last fiscal year. the americican academy of pediatrics has condemned child detention, saying even short periods of detention can cause psychological trauma and long-term mental health risks. the southern poverty law center says white house senior adviser stephen miller sought to promote white nationalism, far-right extremist ideas, and racist immigration stories through the right-wing website site breitbart in the lead-up to the 2016 election. that's according to a cache of leaked emails that miller sent to a breitbart writer in 2015 and 2016. on tuesday, new york congressmember alexandria ocasio-cortez called for miller to resign. in afghanistan, officials say at least seven civilians were killed in a car bombing in the capital l kabul.

no one has claimed responsibility for the attack. it comes after the afghan government and the taliban reached a prisoner exchangee deal, which could lead to the release of an american professor who was kidnapped in kabul in 2016. major protests in hong kong are continuing to escalate for a third straight day today, including clashes between pro-democracy students and police at the chinese university of hong kong. >> we have not succeeded without five domains since the movement began in june, including reforming the police force, and we will not give up until justice is served. amy: that was one of the thousands of protesters out on the streets of hong kong tuesday. the chinese foreign ministry says it stands by the hong kong police's escalating repression against protesters. >> the central chinese

government firmly supports the government of the hong kong special administrative region. police and judiciary authorities taking effective measures to severely punish illegal criminal activities, protect the safety of hong kong residents and their property, and restore peace and stability in hong kong. in july, a massive strike tuesday as they condemned the government's plans to rewrite the country's constitution, which dates back to augusto pinochet's military regime. chile's interior minister gonzalo blumel announced sunday that the government would draft a new constitution, which congress would then rewrite and put to a public referendum. but protesters say the people should be involved with the rewriting process from the beginning and that this is an attempt by sebastian pinera's government to delay any real political and social reforms in chile. in michigan, former mcdonald's worker jenna ries is suing the fast-food chain over sexual harassment.

she says she and other female mcdonald's workers were groped, assaulted, and verbally harassed by one of their co-workers and that the general manager ignored the abuse. the lawsuit comes one week after mcdonald's former ceo steve easterbrook was fired for having a sexual relationship with an employeeee. in connecticut, longtime u.s. resident salma sikandar has won asylum months after her husband led a hunger strike in front of the immigration and customs enforcement office in hartford, connecticut, to protest her deportation. sikandar has lived in the united states for nearly 20 years. but in june, she was abruptly told by ice that she had to leave the country by august. this is sikandar's son, samir mahmud, explaining how his father decided to launch the hunger strikike. >> so what happened was, my dad had a bunch of crazy ideas. he was losing his mind, to be honest, because of the deportation. he was going to lose my mother.

he thought having a hunger strike in front of hartford come in front of ice's building were if they look outside they would see us, for the next 43 hours, until the deportation date/time, and so the hunger strike was led in front of ice. there were about nine other individuals who joined in over hundreds of people joined us from the mayor to the manchester mayor. amy: to see our full interview, go to democracynow.org. and american author and historian noel ignatiev has died at the age of 78. he was the co-founder of the new abolitionist society and co-editor of the journal race traitor, whose slogan was: "treason to whiteness is loyalty to humanity." noel ignatiev spent decades theorizing about white privilege and calling for the abolition of "whiteness," saying -- "the white race consists of those who partake of the privileges of white skin." he was also the author of book "how the irish became white."

he died on saturday at his home in tucson, arizona. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. juan: and i'm juan gonzalez. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. televised impeachment hearings begin today in the inquiry into whether president trump withheld military aid from ukraine to pressure the ukrainian president to investigate his political rival joe biden and his son. two witnesses are testifying today before the house intelligence committee -- george kent, a deputy assistant secretary of state, and william taylor, a former ambassador and the top u.s. diplomat in ukraine. both officials have privately told congressional investigators that trump withheld aid to ukraine in an attempt to pressure ukraine to investigate the bidens. taylor confirmed there was a quid pro quo. donald trump is just the fourth u.s. president to face an impeachment ininquiry. bill clinton was impeached in 1998. andrew johnson was impeached in

1868. richard nixon resigned in 1974 prior to an impeacachment vote. amy: today we are joined by the legendary journalist bill moyers, who covered the nixon and clinton impeachment hearings. in the 1960's, bill moyers was a founding organizer of the peace corps and served as press secretary for president lyndon johnson. in 1971, he began an award-winning career as a television broadcaster on pbs, as well as on cbs and other networks. moyers received over 30 emmys and countless other prizes. he was elected to the television hall of fame in 1995. last week, bill moyers took out a full page ad in "the new york times" urging pbs to broadcast the impeachment hearings live and to rerun them in primetime. bill moyers, welcome back to democracy now! >> good to see you again.

thank you for having me. i don't know what this legendary means -- doesn't mean i am past tense? amy: you are right here. your very current and now talking about the future. thank you so much for that, bill. talk about this full-page ad that you took out and what you're calling for. >> we're calling for pbs come our friends and colleagues there, to put the hearings -- they will carry live in the afternoons when they happen, along with cbs, nbc, and other networks. but to put them live as they did with watergate in primetime, 8:00 at night, so people who have worked all day can come home and watch what they missed. i friends at pbs, some of them say to me, well, people can find it. it is on this cable channel come on the satellite channel, on the internet. but that is different of having to look forward in the wild west of the modern media universe from being able to see it simply, easily, right there in your living room. many americans still get their television the old fashion way,

from their set in the evening. primetime is still our public square. and for pbs to repeat the heararings and pbs gives the may millions more people the chance to see it collecectively in a sense and see what is happening, here what is happening, and make up their own minds. one coat bill, you are front and center during the watergate hearings. talk about the impact of those televised debates on what people thought about watergate and about president nixon. >> are two main anchors at that time at pbs, robert mcneil and jim, were front and center. i did peripheral coverage and then i did a documentary that summed it up called "essay on watergate." what does hearings did was to get millions of americans the chance to hear the evidence as it unfolded, to test for themselves the credibility of the witnesses. whether they seem to or not.

pbs was new. it was a rookie network. not many people were taking it seriously. and all of a sudden, we were the only network in primetime, public service, that were giving these hearings, full exposure, with very effective moderation by jim and robin. they did not get in the way of the testimony. they were not pundits. they were guiding the viewers through it. as a result, millions of americans got to see for themselves democracy on trial, how it was handled. it was a more sedate era and congress then that it is now. it was before gingrich, who wrathhed the forces of when he was speaker of the house. theye were polite, but asked serious questions, developed their stories, and the result was at the end, americans felt they had a sense of what it was all about. nixon i think would have been impeached, but before that happened, several republicans --

a a differenent republican party then -- went dowown to o the whe house and said, "you have got to go." it was those hearings that showed americans how the process worked. it was during those hearings that testimony came out about the hidden tapes that nixon had made of every conversation he had in the white house. from there they went and found the tape that proved to be ththe incriminating, indefensible evidence that nixon had told the fbi to keep the cia from investigating the charges against him. juan: when he about punditry, one of the important roles of public broadcasting, precisely not only is he said the commentators generally take a backseat and that the actual events unfold themselves rather than constantly commenting, but also there are no commercial interruptions. the whole idea that you are in a serious public hearing whether

it is cnn or fox or abc, the after break commercials and decidede what part of the testimony not to cover, it really d does have an impact abt how people digest the information, doesn't it? >> we slice and dice the news today. a bit here, a bit there, an episode here and there. it is hard to get the main story of the big event that is going on. i have many friends and all three of us have many friends in commercial television. but commercial networks have made their peace with the little lies and merchandising of our economic system. that is how they make their living. pbs was intendeded not to be a commercial enterprise, but to be a public service supported by the public. we all pay a little bit in taxes to keep pbs on the air. and that makes a difference. if you can read or see a story without a constant interruption,

will without 70 else's voice getting inside your ear and interfere with your story, i its a different experience. amy: and industry over the airwaves. homeerybody can come wiwithout having to pay a cable fee or streaming fee, you can see it right there in your living room. amy: let's talk about the difference between the coverage of the nixon impeachment hearings and what we're seeing today. how do you think the coverage of the impeachment inquiry into donald trump on this first day as we lead into the public part of the inquiry is happening? >> as "the new york times" said yesterday, the watergate hearings to place in a more sedate environment. republicans and democrats were much more civil to each other than they are in congress now a civict t was more education than it was a food fight. the clinton impeachment became a food fight. that was the turn in our history

when the ability of the two parties to seriously explore an issue together dissolved into conflict and accusations and what we see today. but they were able in those days to let the evidence come out. i think it was 51 nights and days that pbs carried the hearings then. be a, as we know, it will circus. there will be efforts -- the democrats tried it in the clinton impeachment trials. they try to keep dropping republicans and prevent them from making a case against bill clinton. that is going to happen in these hearings. amy: i went to go back to richard ninixon addresessing the country in t the face of the growing threat of impeachment. >> the people of god to know whether ththe president is a crook. well, i'm not a crook. i'vee eararned everything got. amy: aftfter two yeaears of dens and under growing pressure, nixon left the white house on august 9, 1974 stuffy resign,

becoming the onlnly u.s. presidt ever to resign from office. >> i shahall resignened the presidency effective at noon tomorrowow. >> y you are here to s say goode toto us. worde don't have a good for it i in engnglish. ththe best is au u revoir. we will see you again. amy: bill moyers, remember that moment. >> we did see him again because he was resurrected after his political death. there he was making speeches, writing books. yes, i watched that moment andnd wasn't surprisesed because e i d watched the watergate hearings all the time and the evidence was as i i said earlier, indefensible. undermine that evidence. theree were so m many seriouous constitutional charges against nixonn that the country to get

much more seriously than they did the clinton impeachment. amy: there was this seminal moment in the summer of 1973 when tennessee republican senator fred harris -- people may know him more as the "line order" da from television, asked alexander butterfield about the existence of any recording system. butterfield pauses and then details the system for about an hour nonstop. he was only called -- he only had like three hours before to testify. he did not have a lawyer. he did not consult with a lawyer. if he did, he might never have revealed this. tatalk about thahat moment. >> alexander butterfield was an honorable man. there were many honorable republicans at that time he decided they h had to really be hohonest with the e american pe. when n he disclclosed that t ths this tape, that these tapes

existed and nixon was on the records of the members of the congress and the public could actually hear what he was saying, there was almost -- it was all most like a great sucking in of the breath of the hearings and of a merrick and. they suddenly knew. they did not have to take 70 else's word for it. they could listen to richard nixon. you realize this was going to take a significant turn, a dramatic turn. amy: did you ever meet butterfield? >> i did. many years later. amy: he ran the security system. >> lbj had his own alexander butterfield. but he did not have as many recordings as nixon did. faceould must look at that again of alexander butterfield making sure he was going to do it and determined to do it and then doing it. it makes his intimamate strangers. that moment made butterfield an

intimate ally of everybody who believed the constitution was in danger. it is a memorable moment in american history. amy: do you think there's a recording of the trump phone call? >> i have wondered that. know anything, just watching the pattern of the nixon hearings and what brought him down -- i think there could well be a recording of that phone call. i happen to know most of lyndon johnson's phone calls, important ones, were recorded. nixon recorded apparently many more than lbj did. and i am sure the security people in the white house have something more telling than we have seen so far. because everything we have seen pses in it and people i talked around it. somewhere buried in the white house may well be a recording as with the nixon tapes -- the congress had to go t to court to get the supreme court to rule yes or no on whether those tapes

could be made -- that take that butterfield was talklking abouto be made public. publics ruled for the and for congress. we could c come down to that in this if somebody reveals in the courts the next few days that, yes, there is a tape of the recording between president trump and the president of ukraine. amy: weirs begin with legendary broadcaster, journalist, president of the schumann media center, bill moyers. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: "killing me softly," one of the top hits back in 1973 in the midst of the on a well, imimpeachment inquiry into richd nixon. this is democracy now!, i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. our guest is legendary broadcaster bill moyers. juan: i wanted to ask you again

about the watergate hearings. john deans testimony come as one of the inner circles of the president at the time, the impact that that had on the public and also the fact that in today's situation, president trump isis doing everythingg possible to prevent any of his inner circle from being able to testify before congress. in essence, running out the clock on this impeachment process, hoping there won't be time for the congress to have the hearings with his people if accorded decision has to be made about his inner circle being able to testify. , they didthose days not have that defense. so one witness after another -- everybody alive today can remember when john dean said, "what did you tell the president ? i told the president there was a cancer on the presidency."

you could hear a kind of unanimous gasp in the hearings and around the country. you knew from that we were on to something different from -- president johnson in 1866 was impeached. amy: 1868. >> because he had fired the secretary of war. that was the charge against him. this was not a cancer on the presidency.. suddenly, you realize that something was metastasizing politically that we had better pay attention to. and john dean realized this telling the truth was only way out of the whole end of which the white house had dug itself. one coat s some of your statemes recently, you've been talking about the importancnce of that o many lies that we have been exposed to come actually undermining our democracy.

could you expand on that? >> all presidents alive. they do so tactically and strategically. franklin roosevelt lied to convince the couple to go along. all presidents lie. but not all presidents lie systemically. not all like constantly. in the fact of the matter is -- it is not just the president, not just the white house lies that are filling the atmosphere with this toxic poison. my good friend and colleague, esther dizzy -- a distinguished journalist, has written about the lies of presidents. there is a wonderful documentary called "all government lie." and they do. but what we have now is a culture line, not just from within politics, but within media that is determined only to protect and save the president of the united states, donald trump -- and: lying about things big small. >> and you don't know what to

believe anymore. i still believe fax matter,r, bt they're trying to change the facts on us. that is where a few journalists and a few media outlets has a real role to play. it is to always put on the table the evidence against the lies being told by the people that have a vested interest in line. amy: what kind of response have you got your full-page ad in the "new york times" calling for the airing of these hearings, not only live, but in prime time? the significance of pbs -- interestingly, nixon wanted to get rid of pbs. >> is special assistant pat buchanan, later the candidate per president and formidadable right-wing champion, said, yes, let's defund it. let's get rid of it. bravely stood pbs up and said, we're going to carry the hearings. they were nervous because the right wing was already taking

pbs on. nixon wanted to eliminate it. they work harassing and trying to intimidate. so they asksk the statition, wht do you think? and only 52% of the station said, let's carry the hearings. they did. i think later everyone claimed theit for having carried hearings. but pbs did its role as a public educator. impeachment proceedings are a civic education. we rarely get to see democracy on tririal. we rarely know whats really happening a government. so much more is happening then we know. when you have an impeachment hearing, only four in america histyy counting this o, , you get to hear things you woul never know otherwise. we carrd it all then, as saidararlierand d pele t to t e message. even repubcacans changed her sisition both of you are o o younto rememb that afr a wle, a handful repubcansn the

senate golater amo tm, hord bakermong the with down to see thpresidenand said, "mr. president, you can't stay. you've got to go." that was t the power of f those hearings.. what w we're saying in public broadcasting now -- some of my colleagues in public television keep saying, the media universe has changed. of course, it has changed. i have been a part of that change. but what h hasn'tt changed is te importance of people to watch what can happen when they can. we are asking public television stations to put it on prime time repeat it in prime time. ththe response has been good frm some and begs to differ from others. our major station in the washington area is carrying it live in the afternrnoon or morninings come alive during the day and repeated in the evenings. wonderful. the small sister stations up in vermont, they are carrying at the same way. they are preempting the regular

programming. it is always painful to disrupt your regular programming. but they are doing it and they're putting the regular programs on their digital channel, their sub channel, and running a crawl across the bottom of the screen that says "you can see your regular programming on our sub channel." but watch this one because this is what happens today. here in new york, they explalaid that they think their sub channel -- digital sub channel is enough, they are sticking with the regular programming. i think it is a lost opportunity h help 15 million people in this area see for themselves what they can't see during the day. the public television is not a top-down network. stations have the autonomy to decide their own programming.

some are and some aren't. if you are living where they aren't, call them. juan: back in the days of watergate, there was no alternative like c-span. i am wondering if you are expecting a sharp rise in the viewership for c-span because c-span usually not only broadcasts congressional events during the day, but will rebroadcasast them in the evenis as well. >> that's right. c-span.et c-span was created by a wonderful inventive broadcaster in the early 1970's. you can go there now. but it is a small audience. pbs' channels are marginal, it is a small audience and sometimes it is difficult to find -- although, it is there all the e time. but pbs is the last remaining -- i'm not claiming for a moment we get the audience we got in 1973

and 1974 because you do have opportunities through internet, through satellite, through your devices to see it. but there is nothing like seeing it in a sense collectively. amy: bill, you are a wordsmith. there was a letter written to "the new york times" a plea from , "words matter. stop using quid pro quo [captioning made possible by democracy now!] they were right -- use bribery or extortion, making it very clear this is a crime. the more we hear words that carry moral occasions, the more

we understand the criminal nature of the act." used toage can be conceal as well as to reveal. when this being employed and susubpoenaed to be used to defed the crime, find a way to crime -- collar crime something other than a crime. we don't know what president trump did regarding ukraine is a crime and a strict legal sense, but it can well be a crime against the constitution and its abuse of power. look, if you listen to the testimonony today and ensuing, f you read the transcripts, you will see that this is clearly a case -- circumstantial evidence is often the basis for judgment in a legal trial. you will see this president in , offered toted extort, ukraine out of a difficult situation. and that is a crime against the

constitution, if infected happen. and it is something i would not want a democratic president to do, to use his power or her power one day, to get a foreign government to interfere in our elections. amy: and then there is the question of whether this impeachment inquiry will expand with president clinton, it started an investigation into whitewater, and it went on to become around a relationship he had. he will be very interesting, and we will look at that in the coming days, the issue of whether this will remain with ukraine or go to issues like the death of children on the border in u.s. custody, the separation of families, and other issues. we will deal with that in a nether -- on another day because today we have to move on to a debate on what has happened in bolivia. bill moyers, we want to thank you for being with us. legendary broadcaster, president of the schumann media center, a former host of "moyers & company" on pbs and has won mome than 30 emmy awards.

democracy now! will be live streaming today's impeachment hearings beginning at 10:00 eastern time at democracynow.org . come to us. when we come back, we look at the political crisis in bolivia. president evo morales resigned over what he described as a coup. a righght-wing senator has declared herself president. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. juan: we turn now to the deepening political crisis in bolivia. on sunday, b bolivian president evo o morales resigned a and whe described as a coup p shortly after the bolivivian military yk to t the airwaveves to call fofs departure. on tuesday, he flew to mexico where he has received asylum.

on tuesday night, right-wing senator jeanine anez declared herself bolivia's new president despite a lack of a quorum encumbers to approve her ascension to that post. we are facing here are presidential succession originating from the vacancy of the presidency of the state. -- according to the text and meaning of constitution, as president of the chamber of senators, i immediately assumed the presidency of the state as foreseen in the constitutional order and i commit myself to accept responsibility for alll necessary measures to pacify the country. held a bible anez when announcing her claim to presidency, declaring the bible returns to the presidential palace. evo morales' movement toward socialism party is refusing to recognize the new president,

calling her claim legal and to client -- decrying the resignation as a military coup. amy: last month, morales was re-elected for a fourth term in a race his opponents claimed was marred by fraud. he ran for a fourth term after contesting a referendudum upholding term limits. morales stepped down soon after accepting the organization of american states call for new elections. on tuesday, marella a spoke mexico. >> i also want to tell you brothers and sistersrs, as longs i'm alive, we will stay in politics. as long as i'm alive, the fight will continue and we are sure that the people of the world have all the rights to free themselves. amy: hissed as part demonstrations and clashes across bolivia. in the pause to think of his supporters took to the streets. remember, the opposition will never be able to govern as evo morales has done. it hurts us. he was our leader. we miss and love you. we have been left orphans. amy: for more, we hosted debate

on the political crisis in bolivia and la paz, when be a democracy stream by pablo solon, former ambassador to the united nations under president evo morales until 2011. he is the former chief negotiator on climate change for bolivia. and in amherst, massachusetts, we're joined by kevin young, assistant professor of history at the university of massachusetts at amherst. he is the author of "blood of the earth: resource nationalism, revolution, and empire in bolivia." young is also the editor of "making the revolution: histories of the latin american left." we welcome both of you to democracy now! let's begin and bolivia with pablo solon. can you describe ---- do you describe what happppened as a coup? > i think is very complicated to say it is a c coup because i think there was a popular rebellllion. in 2016 whenarted evo morales didn't recognize the result of the referendum that said hcould not run for reelection.

if he e would have respected tht rereferendum, he would have finisheded his third term as probabably the best president in bolivia. but he didn't do that. -- did a statement saying it was a human right to run for new elections. and then we have the elections 20, where there were definititely fraud. we have summoned reports from didifferent institutions, that f course the population wenent to the streets, massive, and it has laststed for 20 days. to say thihis is a coup'etat

house, ey the ite righwing forces, i think is to make a caricature of what really happened. now, who is going to take advantage of this situation are going toe right-wing forces, imperialistsehe of north america. but who created this crisis, i thinink, washis addiction to had inhat evo morales the last years. juan: i want to ask kevin young to deal with the same issue of whether this was a coup are not, and also to deal with the reality that the majority in the congress is still -- is the political party of evo morales. so to what degree can whoever becomes president be able to move forward with a political

agenda given the enormous strength still of evo morales? >> a coup has a straightforward and simple definition for the unconstitutional removal of a sitting president before that president's term in office is up. in the case of bolivia, evo morales is elected president. untilrm isn't due up january 21, 2020. in this case come on sunday, you had the lead commander of the bolivian armed forces directly outrvening and ordering evo of office, so that is a c coup. i think that is pretty straigightforward. that should not be controversial.l. what makes this coup particular lead dangerous is that it is being supported by the most racist and reactionary elements in bolivian society. now, as well as by the united states. now, all that being said, the overall political situation in bolivia is complex.

all of the opposition is not the same.. the opposisition is not monolithic. there are opposition protesters who are much more progressive. many indigenous groups, working-class bolivians have become very disillusioned with evo's government and turned against it. we should not be painting the entire opposition with the same brush were insinuating it is all some conspiracy by t the united states. but at t the same time, it is important to recognize as well that almost half of the bolivian population voted for evo morales on october 20. whether you think that is 47%, as the government set, or maybe only 46% or 45%, the fact remains, almost half of onivians still supported evo october 20 and those voices also need to be counted and recognize. they may have criticisms of the government -- many do and i know some of them -- but they are not supporting the coup because they

fear that a right-wing government is really going to roll back some of the progressive themes that have been cash gains that have been made in the last 13 years and in an immediate sense, they are fearful of right-wing violence in the streets, which is happening and is targeting particularly indigenous bolivians. what is going to happen when the congress because despite the fact that many mass lelegislatos and d officials hahave resigned, sometimes under threat of violence from the right, it is still true that a majority of the congress is controlled by the maas party. they have said they're interested in finding a constitutional revolution to the crisis. what exactly that is going to look like is still very unclear. it is not clear what new elections are going to look like were under what conditions they're going to be held. the maas party is somewhat in disarray the last several days, so we really don't know whatat s going to happen at this point. juan: pablo solon, i wanted to

ask you about this issue of evo morales had agreed as a result of the protests in the streets recommendatition of the organization of american states to hold new elections. so shouldn't the opposition have at least waited until his term was up, until new elections were held before attempting to remove him completely? and also, the issue of the military. the military on the one hand and said they were not going to intercede when the police officers began rebelling against the government, but then has interceded to join the police and nonow attemptiting to quell protests of marellsusupportersr. morales first thing, evo calllled for new elections -he said he was going to call to new elections.s. anand he said hehe was going to changege the electororal court, which meaea that he agreed the

ectoral court was involveved in some case of fraud in the eltions of october 20. morales didn't say "i respect this s electoral court.t." tay, it wase fraud. population, saying, yoyoare saying you elections wiwith the new electoral court means that there was fraud. and fraud d is something you cannot accept.t. it is a crime. so you cannot say, ok, well, you know, there was fraud and am going to call for new elections. now i i guarantee you eveverythg is going to bebe ok. it is imimpossible.

-- a coup andd thehen went out to the streets that day and forced if a marella's? said, the situation iss terrrrible. people don''t accept new elections after you are recocognizing that there was fraud. that is what t they said. and wewe suggest that t you res. and they didn't go out to the streets.s. and d evo morales, why did hee resign? in my poinint of view, , he r rd because he wasas not able to sustain ththis idea that the elections of the 2 20th o of ocr were cleanan. at t the -- and ififhey weren''t clean, he was invovolved becauae you cannot havave fraud without the invovolvement of the govevernment.

went -- hened and he ththought his resignation was going toto create an up risise. as the others true person said, he hahathe support of more ththan 40% o of the popopulation. and he was suspecting there woululd be an up r rise and thee was set toto mobilize. but then wt h happened? there was that mobilizatation, t the mobilization was a a mup supportersrs of m maas but also burnroupsps that began to -- thehere were more than 7070 s of the public service system hehere in lepage that would bur, drop stores -- lepage would burn, drop stores. -- - the night ofof sundayay and monday was chair in many citieies. and the police ststations begano

be attacked by ththis combinatin of supporters the polititical party ofofhe governmenent, what you c call maas and these other groups. able e toice was not stop this. neighborhoods began to organanie to defend themselves, nonot only enrich areas, but t poor areas. at that moment, the popolice sa, we need to have the support of the militarary stop this viviolence of these groups. you have the m military y comin. i am not inn favav of that, , bt those are e the facts. and ththere you have the militay and they thee strtreets have intervened in places where there are thesese groups come he violence.

yesterday, at the mass demonstration. juan: can we bring in kevin young? your response to the description of pablo solon of what has been going on? >> sure. i want to briefly address the question of the october 20 elections. there is this widespread narrative that has been uncritically embraced in the immediate in the united states that there was a fraud in the october 20 elections. and that is largely based on the preliminary audit of the organization of american states, which was released this past weekend, which does contain allegations of widespread irregularities. on the other hand, we have the authoritative report from the center for economic and policy research, which last week released a detailed study of the october 20 election, and found there was no evidence of fraud or at least if there were irregularities, there was no evidence that they were decisive in determining the outcome. now, is it possible there were irregularities?

absolutely. i am not denying that. november 10,id, on earlier in the day, evo morales actually offered to hold new elections as a major concession to the protesters. he even offered to replace the entire electoral monitoring body. -- i disagreeat with pablo. i don't see that as necessarily an admission of fraud. i see it more as a concession that was intended to keep the peace. at the opposition, most of them, did nonot want new elections because they doubted they could be evo at the ballot boxes. they wanted a coup. that is exactly when the military steps in and orders evo to leave. i agree with pablo that the situation on the streets is extremely concerning. there is violence being committed, not only by the right, but also by many maas supporters who are justly

terrified of what is going to happen. so the situation is complex. it should not be reduced to simple good versus bad or left versus right. but thatat does s not change the fact this wawas a coup. it is a conflict situation and it is a coup withth some popular supppport, but it is still a co. amy: pablo solon, are you concerned about the woman who just accreditors of president saying she is bringing the bible back into the government? opposition protesters, tonapping the mayor loyal marella's, dousing her with red paint, parading her through the streets and then you have, for luis fernando camacho, the far-right multimillionaire who arose many say out of fascist movements in bolivivia, return to theever

palace, bolivia belongs toto christ. >> first, let me awer. you arnot right. before the oas, here in n boliva we had reports -- we were abable toto see d dferent reports frorm the voting pces wherere they wewere -- ere they changed signates. they changed numbers.. they created this because of them. they had to see th evidence that we haveere. we have other reports before the oas s report. ththe second thing - -- amy: w weave 30 s seconds > excuse me. you say it is a cououp. a coup means the m military went out to the streets. whwh ava marelella sd this was a -- herom the police a and

did not want to mention the military post up according to your question -- line amy: we will have to go to that question and part two of this discussion. andnt to thank pablo solon kevin young.

hello. a very warm welcome to nhk "newsline." it's 9:00 a.m. on thursday in tokyo. i'm miki yamamoto. we begin in washington where the nation is gripped by the first impeachment hearings into a president in more than two decades. in the historic televised hearing that kicked testimony further linking the u.s. president to a ukraine pressure campaign. donald trump is alleged to have asked in july for a probe against democratic political rival joe biden during a phone call