then as s south bend mayoretete buttigieg soars inhehe pol inn iowa, we look at why some bebelieve the primary system is racist. i recently posed the question to senator elizizabeth warren. two of the whitest states in the country and then we lose to south carolina with very significant population to people of color. it means the candidates spend so much of their time catering to those first two states. overall, do you think that should change? >> i am justst a player in the game on this one. and i am delighted to be in south carolina. amy: and we will speak to bolivia's ambassador to the united nations. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. in a sharp reversal of more than 40 years of u.s. policy,

secretary of state mike pompeo has announced the united states no longer views israeli settlements in the occupied west bank to be in violation of international law, despite a 2016 u.n. resolution declaring the settlements a flagrant violation of international law. monday's announcement sparked widespread condemnation from palestinians. this is cheap palestinian negotiator saeb erekat. including jerusalem, not t only illegal under international law, they are war crimes. in the statement of mr. pompeo, the secretary of state of the united states, is absolutely rejected and must be condemned. amy: soon after secretary of state mike pompeo announced the new u.s. policy, the u.s. embassy in israel issued a travel warning to americans in israel, the west bank, and gaza. we'll h have more on the israeli

settlements and pompeo's announcement after headlines. we'll speak with palestinian human rights attorney and legal scholar noura erakat. on capitol hill, four witnesses are slated to testify today as part of the televised impeachment hearings into whether president trump withheld military aid from ukraine to pressure the ukrainian president to investigate trump's political rival joe biden and his son. this morning congressional lawmakers will hear testimony from lt. col. alexander vindman, the top ukraine expert for the national security council, and jennifer williams, a special adviser to vice president mike pence and a member of his national security council staff. both vindman and williams listened in on the july 25 phone call between between president trump and ukrainian president zelensky, which is at the center of the impeachment inquiry. in earlier closed-door testimony, vindman said the white house transcript of the july 25 phone call omitted key words and phrases, including an

explicit mention of burisma holdings by the ukrainian president. trump was trying to pressure the president to publicly announce an investigation into joe son hunter and his role on burisma's board. vindman also testified that his attempts to include the omissions in the transcript failed. in her previous testimony, jennifer williams called the july 25 phone call between trump and the ukrainian president "unusual and inappropriate." witnesses to testify will be former u.s. special envoy to ukraine kurt volker and former national security council official timothy morrison. in a now-released message, volker wrote to one of president zelensky's aides only hours before the july 25 phone call, writing -- "heard from white house -- assuming president z convinces trump he will investigate/'get to the bottom of what happened' in 2016, we will nail down date for visit to washington."

timothy morrison had been the top russia staffer on the national security council until he resigned last month ahead of his closed-door testimony in the impeachment hearings. morrison also listened in on the july 25 phone call and later said he thought it could be damaging to u.s.-ukrainian relations. he's also said he was surprised to learn the call's transcript was was put on a top-secret server, which many say was part of a white house cover-up. these four testimonies today come after house democrats released the transcript of the closed-door testimony of david holmes, a senior political officer at the u.s. embassy in kiev. he told lawmakers ukukrainian officials "came to understand what was required" to access u.s. military aide and a meeting with president trump. holmes is slated to testify thursday. on monday, president trump said he was strongly considering providing a written testimony as part of the ongoing impeachment inquiry. democracy now! will be live in

the impeachment hearings in full at democracynow.org. the united nations has condemned the united states for having the world's highest rate of children in detention. the u.n. experts particularly condemned the trump administrationon's policy of forcibly separating children from their parents at the border and then detaining children away from their parents or family members. this is manfred nowak, who is leading the u.n. global study on children deprived of liberty. childrenrse separating , , as was done by the trumpmp administration, from their parents, even small children at the mexican-u.s. border, is absolutely prorohibited by the convention. i would call it inhumane treatment for both the parents and the children.

and there are still quite a number of children that are .eparated from their parents neither the children know where the parents are or r the parents know where the children are. amy: thousands marched across bolivia monday to demand the resignation of janine aniz, the right-wing senator who declared herself president of bolivia last week after longtime socialist president evo morales resigned in what he and others have condemned as a military coup. the political crisis in bolivia has sparked nationwide violence, with at least 23 dead, including nine people shot dead by the military at an indigenous pro-morales march in cochabamba friday. in more news from bolivia, indigenous bolivian family members are in miami today for a hearing urging the circuit court 11th of appeals to reinstate a $10 million judgment finding bolivia's former president, gonzalo sanchez de lozada, liable for the massacre of more than 60 unarmed indigenous

people in 2003. later in the broadcast, we will speak to bolivia's ambassador to the united nations. in afghanistan, the afghan government and the taliban have carried out a prisoner exchange, freeing american professor kevin king and australian professor timothy weekes. both had been professors at the american university of afghanistan before being kidnapped in kabul in 2016. in exchange, the afghan government freed three senior taliban members -- anas haqqani, hafiz rashid, and haji mali khan. in hong kong, dozens of student protesters remain inside hong kong polytechnic university, which has been besieged by police for days. over 1000 students have been arrested as part of the siege. many of the protesters were forced to surrender after being injured by police firing rubber bullets and tear gas. others escaped by rappelling down a bridge and fleeing on waiting motorcycles. the standoff at the prestigious

university is a dramatic escalation of the protests, which began in june. on tuesdsday, beijing g also condemned a hong kong court's decision monday to overturn a ban on face masks worn by the protesters. beijijing accused the hong kong judiciary of blatantly challenging the authority of china. in china, a gas explosion n inse a coalal mine hahas killed 15 workers and injured another nine in the northern province of shanxi. last year reviewew of the mi , a found it failed to provide adequate training for workers. china's mines are the deadliest in the world, accounting for about 80% of mining deaths worldwide. the chinese mining explosion came on the heels of a gas pipeline explosion in bangladesh sunday, which killed seven people and hospitalized another southeast of the capital dhaka. 25 brazil's national institute for space research warns deforeststation of the amazon ns skyrocketed sincnce the election of far-rightht brazilian presidt jair bolsonanaro.

betwtween august 201018 and july 2019, the amazon rainforests in brazilil lost an a area of abob2 timemes the sizeze of new yoyor, a 30% increase since the previous year and the highest total loss of rainforest habitat since 2008. syracuse university has suspended all fraternity activities for the rest of the fall semester following a pattern of anti-semitic and racist incidents on campus. on saturday, an african-american student was verbally harassed and called a racial slur by a group of fellow students, including members of a fraternity, according to a statement from the university. this is the sixth time there are reports involving racist language and symbols at syracuse university in the last 10 days. this month alone there have been at least 10 racist incidents reported on or near campus, including a swastika drawn in a dorm hall and other vandalism featuring racial slurs targeting black anand asian people.

in new york, four students at columbia university with the global non-violent action movement extinction rebellion launched a five-day hunger strike monday. the students are demanding columbia declare a climate emergency and pursue a community-led process to divest from fossil fuels. over 400 people in 30 countries are participating in similar hunger strikes with extinction rebellion across the globe. former fnl -- nfl quarterback -- thisp burnett workout came after week of contentious negotiations with the nfl which cap has accused of blackballing him for taking the knee during the national anthem as a protest against police violence and racism. racial sparked justice protest that resulted in him not being signed by a single nfl team and being out of the league for three years.

on saturday, he refused to participate in the nfl's hastily arranged workout which was to be closed to the press was tough instead he went to the nearby high school and held his own workout, which one of the nfl scouts called impressive. and in new york city, hundreds of farmworkers and their family members and allies marched to the manhtatan ofces s ofrian partnersonone ofhe l larst shareholrsrs of e fafastood giant wey'y' the fawoworkerare e dending wendy's gngn ontthe e fa foodd program, whi w wouldequiuire the fast-fd d gianto p purase matoesesrom growers that follow a worr-r-desied c codof conduct thatncncludea zero-tolanance picy y fosexualal harassme a and ase i in e fields. wendy's s is t onlnly jor fast-fd d chaithatat h refusus to sigononto t faiair od program. this is comeanan amy schumer, speakingng at the rarally monda. >> and you are not alone. arounddisobedience all the ited stas,s, knoabouout ur s strgle.

figing come your own fami m membe havave stggled. we are with you. we are going to fht to bring awareness to thifight. theris no excuse for wendy's t t havi joioine the fair food prraram. of: to e ouour ll coverage e coalitn of immalee rkers, gto democcynow.or d those e some othe adlines. this is mocracy w!, democrynow.orgthe war d ace repo. i'm amy odman. juan: ani'm an gonzaz. welcomto all oour listers d viewerfrom arod the country d aroundhe world thsands mahed acro bolivia on mony toemand the resignation of jeanine anez, the riright-wing senenator who decld herself president of bolivia last week after longtime socialist president evo morales resigned under pressure from t e militaryry. the coup d'etat has thrown bolivia into crisis, with violence across the country leaving at least 23 dead. on friday, the military gun down nine pro-morales protesters

outside cochabamba, where indigenous people took to the streets again on monday. thousands more marched to the presidential palace in la paz. so proclaim president -- self-proclaimed president anez canceled a trip to her home province after receiving a death threat. the wave of protests are condemning the spike in anti-indigenous violence under interim president anez and demanding the return of evo morales. anez has a history of using racist, anti-indigenous language and has vowed to bring the bible back to the presidency. last week, she issued a decree protecting the military from prosecution for violent acts and said that morales would face prosecution if he returned to bolivia. amy: evo morales is bolivia's first indigenous president and bolivia has a majority indigenous population. he spoke to al jazeera from mexico, where he fled after his ouster. >> i am absolutely convinced that these violent groups are

bringing racism back. and racism turns into fascism. they burn union buildings. the houses of my comrades. they attacked the house of my sister. they looted my own house. amy: well, for more, we're joined by sacha llorentiti, bolivian ambassador to the uniteded nations. president of the first committee of the u.n. general assesembly. he's speaking to us by phone. -- he is speaking to us by phone. we welcome you to democracy now! ambassador, we don't know where you are. do you fear for your safety? think bolivians do right now, there's a systematic persecution being directed by the ones that took power through violent means. allow me to say good morning to you all, also. threats. are not just

who is now running the minister of government who is interior minister has threatened to hand of mas, movement also thesocialism, but woman who's in charge of the minister of communication said she will persecute journalists because they were committing acts of sedition. those were not just threats, amy. of theread the report inter-american commission on human rights, they reported that andar 23 people were killed more than 700 are wounded. so we are going through not just

the coup d'etat, but a violent one. and they are continuing using violence against peaceful demonstrations. one issue that is of our concern and i think the international community has a common position dictatorship, the issue a decree called a supreme decree that allows the military to act with impunity. says the military is able to conduct their operations, so to speak, without a legal procedure or for them to not be accountable. in my country are afraid. president morales also said in

the interview that you just , not just members of our political party are being persecuted, not just members -- but also social leaders. many houses were burned to ashes. there are some members of evo's andnet who are in asylum embassies or had to flee to exile. thes like going back to 1970's, really, amy. juan: ambassador, a lot is still not known in terms of details of what happened in the hours and days before president morales resigned. have you been able to talk with him and get a better sense of what happened?

there was a public announcement that theyitary recommended he stepped down but as far as the rest of the world knows, there was no direct activity by the military. could you talk about, if you had a conversation with him, what you know about why he decided to resign and leave the country? this was a very well-planned coup because there that are beingrs discussed right now. i had the chance to talk many ,imes with president morales who is still the president, by the way, constitutionally speaking. we can get to that later. was first itened was -- as you know, the police and the military are the two

that are armed in bolivia. the first one that joined the coup was the police. at the beginning, they refuseded to comply with instructions of the morales government. but then after they joined the demonstrators against the government. that is one part of the armed coup. aftercond part was, even saiddent morales publicly that he is willing to call for new electioions to elect a new electoral body and with new political actors -- meaning he will not be runnining on those elections -- even when he said o of the just the c chief bolilivian armed forces, but alo the police, recommended him to

resign. weaponseone has recommends you to do something, it is a threat. , this goes toat the safety of president morales. resigned, evene before he resigned all his d dmantled. he couould notot use the presidenential plane. and some e loyal members of his securirity team showed him messages in whichch people e wee offering them $50,0,000 if they over.hand him and videos you can see, the

police were handing him down even before his resignation. was worse after his resignation. beyond that, when mexico offered him asylum, the bolivian allow theid not mexican plane to leave the country. not just that, they did not allolow the mexican plane to fly over bolivian airspace. so there are many, many factors. and i think this is very important. once the self-proclaimed -- in hissenator anez first interview, she thanked the police a and said they w will cy with all of the offers they were given. i mean, the police were given. all of the offers they were given. it was clearly a coup d'etat ran

politicians-wing and t the eastern elite of bolivia, but also by the p polie and military. play some of to those who were talking about the sacaba massacre. the andean information network intervrviewed more than two dozn witnesses of the sacaba massacre in bolivia, speaking with the institute of forensic investigations, and viewed the death certificates of those murdered. the witnesses did not want to be identified by their name out of fear for their safety. this is one of them. >> they are saying the people from the mas are attacking. that is not true. the journalists are not talking to people because they know they're going to tell the truth and they do not want to unveil the truth. we're just asking for peace for bolivia. we do not want more dead. we do not want more sadness.

you can see many people have died. amy: this is another demonstrator in sacaba. this is just aft t the msacrcre on f fday. >> how would you srere my coconcnsith the police ofoffice foror tse whohoad the money. theyre shootgg at f from helicoers s li they y rett r. th neveverad thihiwar would evevo w p presint.. almost five or seven people dead. amy: it looks like ththere are t least nine people dead,, over 10 injured. and d you have the s self-procld president of bolivia, janine anez, previously calling indigenous goodies satanic declaring her presidency will bring the bible back to bolivia. ambassador ambassador sacha llorenti, can you respond to who janine on the as is and what is

your role right now? can you walk into the consulate in new york where you resided? is -- there, this in thelite mainly eastern part of the country with a lot of money. remember,ou might amy, they wanted to split the country. they started a movement of secession of that part of the country. it is powerful people. administration of natural resources and also the banks. anez, butjust senator

--ind her, there is a class there are economic interests. they already started different policies that want to restore neoliberalism in bolivia. i'm going to give you one example. they want to privatize some of the endeavors that evo morales did in the last 14 years and they want to get rid of all of the regulations for exports in bolivia. regulate exports in order to keep the prices low in bolivia and to guarantee that everyone gets those products in the country. but now they are getting rid of those regulations in order for them to get more profit, mainly.

so there is a clear economic project by these people. senator whostt this is now the self-proclaimed president of my country. destroy real path to all the things that we have achieved in the past 14 years. that is one thing. the second thing is that it is a racist elite. one of the first things they have done, not just in one place, but in many different cities in bolivia, they burned down the indigenous plat. they did that i in 2008 and the u.n.n. lily stated t that was a -- clearlybecause stated that was a racist act because it is a religious civil but also recognized by the constitution into thousand nine.

we're talking about an economic plan. have a have -- they do social project, which is, i mean, the restoration of this racist way of runni the state. but at the same time, they are aligned with the policies of the white house. the first things they have done recognize the other self proclaimed president of venezuela guaido. they asked posed -- they expelled all of the people and expelled the medical wororkers, , theuban medical workers cuban staff that helped a great the in terms of reaching more isolated communities in bolivia. so this is what is happening. and it is no surprise that one of the first countries that

recognize senator anez was precisely the united states. juan: ambasassador, we only hava couple of minutes, but i want to ask two questions. one, what is been the response of the international community? clearly, the self-proclaimed president as i understand it has fired most of the ambassadors that president morales appointed around the world. hohow are they reacting to those orders? back at theoking original unrest under president morales as a result of his decision to continue to run for another term, even though it was against the original referendum that he supported of term limits, yourur sense of any mistakes made by the movement that he is a part of? >> i will say to your first question, juan, i think most of the international community is looking closely to what is happening.

concerned, for example, the degree that gives impunity to the military. they want fair elections. i think the inter-american human rights commission, shall batch allete of -- michelle bachelet of the high commissioner for human rights, i mean, they stressed that very clearly. there are many, many governmenes that are not rececognizing that. there is just a handful that have. and i think the only ways in which we can solve this problem is through negotiation in order to have transparent elections and with the full participipatin of the movement toward socialism . and they have to guarantee that. and also they have to stop the repression and persecution.

your other question about mistakes. mean, we make mistakes. the process of change, the bolivian revolution wawas made y huhuman beings. we made many mistakes along the way, but there were great successes, juan. we have reduced poverty like no other. from 30% of extreme poverty to 15%. we have raised the quality of millions of people that are now part of the middle class and manyny of them are now protestig that sette government the conditions for them to improve in their lives. of child in terms mortality -- you know that

according to the world economic forum, it is the 17th country in the world in terms of reducing gender gap. 17. way behind many, many european countries because of the policies directed to that goal. of course there were mistakes, but i think that many, many, many good things -- on amy: ambassador, we only have 30 seconds. do you think the u.s. was involved with the coup? is part of the united stateses government. of course they were involved. they were part of the coup and also they acted in coordination with the calendar of the coup. a breathe fire? -- amy: real the? >> i am recognized by

credential committee of the united nations. i'm still the ambassador to the united nations. i will not recognize that is a dictatorship and i will continue to do my job the best of my capacity. amy: do you think the president would be killed if he were to bolivia? >> i have tried to kill him. for sure. protected bys peasants in cochabamba. amy: ambassador sacha llorenti ambassador, thank you for joining us. when we come back, and abrupt reversal. the trump administration and asset it no longer views israeli settlements in the occupied west bank to be a violation of international law. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, i'm amy goodman with juan

gonzalez. juan: in a sharp reversal to more than 40 years of u.s.s. policy, the trump administration has announced he no longer these israeli settlements in the occupied west bank to be a violation of international law. in 1978, the state department issued a legal opinion stating that settlements were "inconsistent with international law." and every administration has upheld that. on monday, secretary of state mike pompeo announced a reversal to the u.s. position. >> the establishment of israeli submittal -- selling settlement in the west bank is not inconsistent with international law. amy: this announcement puts the u.s. at odds with the international community. in 2016 a u.n. resolution declared the settlements a "flagrant violation" of international law. israel's embattled prime minister benjamin netanyahu welcomed pompeo's announcement as a historic day for israrael t palestinian chief negotiator saeb erekat condemned the u.s. decision. cook's settlements in jerusalem

have not only illegal under international law, they are were crimes. in the statement of mr. pompeo, the secretary of state of the united states, is absolutely rejected and must be condemned. amy: soon after mike pompeo announced the new u.s. policy, the u.s. embassy in israel issued a travel wawarning to americans in jerusalem, the west bank, and gaza. we are joined now by noura erakat, a palestinian human rights attorney and legal scholar. assistant professor at rutgers university. her latest book "justice for , some: law and the question of palestine." this is an abrupt reversal. can you talk about t the significance of it? >> this is not necessarily a reversal in u.s. policy, only in a state of policy for more than five decades and stanton 67 come all you as a ministrations have talk out of both sides of their mouth. on the one hand they have condemned settlements in n on te

other hand they provided israel with the unequivocal diplomatic military and financial aid in order to entrench their settlements. even the obama administration, as it was standing on u.n. security council resolutionon condemning the settlement is a flagrant vibration come has been part of the problem -- violation, has been part of the problem. simultaneously the obama administration increased eight from $3 billion to $3.8 billion a year and in 2012, that same administration used its first veto at the security council to condemn a resolution, a u.n. security council resolution, using exact u.s.-born policy language on settlements. whatat we're seeing now is not a sharp reversal of u.s. foreign policy on the question of settlements in palestine, but instead the culmination of it. for us to blame this on trump is

basically to expel tate ourselves and create a revisionist history and instead we should be accountable and actually take responsibility for how we have been part of the problem. juan: could you talk about the timing of this announcement in the midst of an essential stalemate in israel in terms of a new government and benny gantz has a deadline this week of forming the new government or israel may be forced to third election? >> this is what is so tragic abouout all of this. what we are talking about right now in the west bank is about 700,000 settlers living in the midst of a population of 3 million palestinians who because of those 700,000 settlers are living in an exclusive colonial settlement surrounded by military and civilian-israeli infrastructure that cuts it into 20 where they cannot reach one another. we are talking about the subjugation of the palestinian thelation at the whim of

colonial settlements. and now we are seeing this discusussion, sing the u.s. recognize this as not a violation of international law, which actually has no basis because they cannot change that status. part is the tragic u.s. administration is doing this in order to support netanyahu in his own bid to consolidate power in israel. palelestinians are ponds to be moved around in order to shape u.s. to mystic policy. the other thing that should be highlighted is although netanyahu who represents the right is celebrating this as a culmination of his own vision, benny gantz and the blue-and-white party supporteded and wewelcome it. there's no d daylight t betweene so-called is really left and right. we're seeing a consolidation. we want to frame this as a contravention of the peace process and not acknowledging the fact that what is ongoing is a violation of human rights, the entrenchment of apartheid regime.

an reversion to the peace process is precisely the problem. it was t the awful accord that t settlements on the back burner and made a part of the final status negotiations that were not getting too. what we're saying now in terms of the u.s. administration is forcing palestinians to accept every new incremental territorial taking as new facts on the ground that are then presented to palestinian negotiators, plus except those facts which are were crimes, as previously stated, and when the palestinian protest -- they are told the -- the reversion to the peace process and the status quo on how to handle the situation, is a reversion into a dead end and back to where we are. we have to think about this radically a new about how did transcend the situation. this isn't about two states. these are about flagrant human rights violations. we are witnessing the entrenchment of apartheid regime in the u.s. at the home of that

process. amy: i want t to ask you about this move coming right after the european union's top court ruled that european union countries must identify products made in israeli settlements on their labels in a decision that was welcomed by rights groups, sparking anger in israel. justiceopean court of said when products come from an israeli settlement their labels must provide an indication of that provenance so the consumers can make informed choices when ththey shop." how do these two issues relate? >> i lost sound. amy: can you hear me now? noura erakat? can you hear me now? >> i lost sound. amy: can you hear me? >> yes, i can. --: i'm asking you about >> the court of justice decision. least,cision is at very

all the decision is doing is providing consumers with the ability to make their own choices about where they want to purchase their products. it is not banning israeli settlement projects, despite the fact our flagrant violations. it is the obligation of third parties in relation to what is happening in the west bank. lababelinge doing is products. this is about a business and human rights framework. israel is saying this is discriminatory and targeting israel, yet it is the very least -- it is a very least the court of european union should do. the trumpe fact that administration has removed the emperor's clothes and made very clear the u.s. as part of the problem and not an honest broker, no other state has rushed to fill the vacacuum u.s. has left behind. even the european union is willing to throw money at the palestinians in order to make the situation more tolerable, but is not interested in actually a applying the pressure and coercion upon israel in order to change this status quo

to deliver an actual viable future. what they're doing right now is the very least of labeling products when instead they should be boycotting those products altogether, applying the sanctions, and because israel took control of the conversation about this s being targeted rather than a be a conversation where israel has to defend itself, we are seeing this as somehow radical. juan: speaking of pressure on israel, the bds movement, the enormous effort that israel is expanding across the world to try to silence bds supporters. could you talk about the impact of that movement on israeli policy? >> the bds movement now is more relevant than ever, precisely because it has been made clear the u.s. is not an honest broker but a pillar of the problem. european union has no intention of resolving the conflict but only containing the conflict. there are no other diplomatic alternatives. palestinians are expected to be held in the status quo. we have a palestinians who were

killed in an aerial strike in gaza last week in the middle of the night, and yet are not askingng questions about that.t. there was a palestinian journalist who was shot by a sniper. his eye was shot out as he was reporting what was happening in gaza. we are still not talking about that. instead we remain in this this nonsensical peace process that is a central part of the problem. what the bds movement represents is a grassroots altlternative. it is people power demonstrating their conscience and solidarity. and for americans s and people n the ununited states, it is more critical than ever precisely because we are not witnesses to what is happening to palestininians. we are part of the problem. we are a central pillar of the problem because we provide israel with the impunity it needs to continue its war crimes , with the funding it needs to build those settlements, and with the cover that it receives here in our political parlance.

when we are talking about palestine, we're not talkiking about a foreign policy issue. we are talkingng about a pillarf what the u.s. is doing. we are part of this problem. the same way we are part of separating families at the border. the same way we are denying access to asylum-seekers. overseeingy we are mass incarceration problem that over represents black bodies. we are also overseeing the subjugation of palestinians as part of our policy. amy: noura erakat, thank you for being with us. noura erakat is a palestinian human rights attorney and legal scholar. assistant professor at rutgers university. her latest book "justice for , some: law and the question of palestine." when we come back, south bend mayor pete buttigieg source in the polls in iowa. we look at why some believe the primary system, the order of the

states, the top two states, some of the whitest in the country. why some believe the system is racist. stay w with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. juan: as the united states becomes increasingly diverse, and the democratic party even more so, the presidential nomination process remains heavily weighted by two states that are among the whitest in the nation, iowa and n new hampshire. amy: during the first ever presidential forum on environmental justice earlier this month in south carolina, i asked senator elizabeth warren about the issue. senator warren, just 30 seconds left, but speak about racial and breast just -- racial injustice. to think the primary order should change? you have iowa and hamsher -- cooks before you finish, are you going as me to sit here and criticize iowa and new hampshire? amy: no, i'm asking about the order. they are two of the whitest states in the country and then we moved to south carolina with a very significant population to people of color. it means the candidate spend so much of their time catering to

those first two states. overall, do you think i should change? >> i am just a player in the game on this one. and i am delighted to be in south carolina. thank you. amy: thank you so much. thank you. senator warren's reaction to the question echoes the democratic party's stance on maintaining first-in-the-nation status for both the iowa caucus and the new hampshire primary. in 1972, iowa democrats moved the caucus up to january 24 to give themselves extra time to process the results from all the precincts. that early date made the iowa caucuses the nation's first indicator of each candidate's standing and attracted extraordinary media attention. the iowa democratic and republican parties agreed to hold their caucuses early, and on the same day, to maximize national press coverage. new hampshire then cemented its hold as the first primary state, immediately following the iowa caucuses. cases spend in some

more than a year making frequent, extended campaign swings through iowa and new hampshire, which critics say gives the concerns of the first states a disproportionate impact on the agenda for the entire race. msnbc played my exchange with warren for democratic presidential hopeful julian castro, who pushed back on the status quo. >> i actually believe that we do need to change the e order of te stateses because i don'tt beliee thatat we are the same cocountre were in 1972. that is whenen iowowfirst held s caucus firstst and by the time with the next presidenential election in 2024, it will have been more than 50 years since 1972. our country has chahanged a lotn those 50 years. the dedemocratic party has chahd a lot.t. what a reaeally appreciate ababi ones and t the folks i in new hampshire is they take this procesess very sereriously. they show up at town halls. they give pepeople a goodd hearg

stop at the sasame time, demomographically, it is not reflective of the united states as a whole, surly not t reflecte of the democraratic party. i i believe other states should have their chance. so yes, of course, we needed to find other states -- that does not mean iowa a and new hampshie cannot still play an important role, but i don't believe that forever we should be married to iowa and new hampshire going first. juan: in another interview with cbs, julian castro said "we cannot say to black women, oh, thank you, are the ones powering our victories in places like alabama in 2018 and then turn around and start our nominating contest into states that barely have any black people in them. that doesn't make sense." castro will not be raising this issue at the debate. in atlanta, he did not make the cut. amy: in a moment, we will be .oined by gilberto hinojosa at first, we turn to ian millhiser, senior correspondent at vox.

how did the system happen? who created the system, two of the whitest states in the country are the first and the primary system and now the extended pre-primary season, all of these canandidates spend this time in n iowa and new h hpshir. in theou alludeded to intro, this was not t done with intentionanality. nono one in the democratatic pay sat t down a and saiaid what a e two states that would b best to start off the process? it is just t that iowa and neww hampmpshire jockey thehemselveso the front of thehe line at a tie whenen the media starteded payia lot of attention to the early raceces.. and now that thehey have it, the psychological term it is -- you have something you get very upset if someone tries to take it away y from you.. and that is the p pblem with this d dynamic is t that thehers never any planning, never anyy ththought that wenent into o o y since to be ththe first date and then once yoyou get sosomeone in

that position, t they are e goio be very, very resistant if someone tries to assign a position to someone else. juan: we're also joined by gilberto hinojosa, chair of the texas democratic party. welcome to democracy now! could you talk about what the impact on a huge state like texas, your state, is by the fact that the candidates are so focused, so much time on iowawa and new hampshire? >> it is obvious. texas is the second largest, probably the most diverse. hispanic, 15% is african-american or asian american. we are a majority stake him as his california and new mexico, yet we have to wait until the processing iowa and new hampshire completes itself. -- these are not to states that a representative in

terms of ethnicity of the democratic party. i am from the rio grande valley of texas. therere's about one point formay people that live in the rio grande valley. it is about 90% latino. it is like an if we were have our primary and rio grande valley of texas and have candidates spending three months there continuously going to barbececues and different events being sponsored by the local elected officials, nobody would think that would be -- a represented primary that you would have to start your elections with. and so i think this is a process that has been established tradition. tradition doesn't work anymore. i think it is not f fair to the candidates, either. they spend in a norma's amount of time and money. -- enormous amount of time and money. people go to big dinners. candidates go there. they have to put their supporters in the dinner and pay

for the supporters to be there. they spend thousands of dollars to get the attention in the small state of iowa that doesn't produce the results that are reflective of what are democratic party represents all across america. so i think it is something that should change -- at least we have to have a conversation. i've been on the democratic national committee for 10 years -- longer than that. we have never had a conversation on this issue. we have never talked about whether iowa and new hampshire should be the first primaries. we were always told "this is the way it is" and you just have to deal the. amy: the dnc chair tom perez made a deal with the i would delegation that he would not challenge their first status if they voted for him to be chair of the dnc. but i wanted to ask you, you told "the new york times" that you're trying to host a forum in

january. you have trouble attracting a lot of the presidential candidates because they say they are too busy in iowa. >> inn fact, we would like to have a forum with all of the candidates in iowa they're having a form at the same exact time. therefore, the question is, right before the caucuses come is a candidate going to come to 38 electorals votes and has a heck of a lot more delegates going to the national convention were are you going to go to iowa that has a small number of delegates and electoral votes? which is going to produce the momost results for you? well, because iowa is first, people are going over there instead of this state that has much more potential -- especially second-tier, at least in terms of where they are being rated, candidates. i don't think it makes any sense. it doesn't help us flush out the

whole process to where we could get a candidate that has a better chance of winning in november. i just think we have never had this conversation before andnd t is very frustrating for us. state that is clearly purple now. it has been declared to be a battleground state. , itexas were to turn blue would be all over for the republican parties ability to relax -- parties ability to elect a president to the united states because we have some electoral votes. yet we are being placed behind these other states and given an opportunity to get these candidates in the state to get pete in the state, to be able to come out with the delegates that help them grow in the direction of being able to get the nomination. juan: ian millhiser, this whole issue of whether this is the way it is and it can't be changed. talk about s some of the histor. there is always been a battle

over how these primaries selection process occurs. it was after the 1968 democratic convention when hubert humphrey the nominatition without winnina singngle nomininion that a a loo the major changes h have occurr. >> the modern system or primaries actuallyly matter is fairly new a and was created in the 1970's. -- onone particular piece e history. dean wass 2004, howard the front runner for most of that democtitic p primary. shshortly before the iowa caucus began, , a videdeo c clip emergf him criticizing ththe iowa caucs before he e was even a presidential candidate. and that i is when t the comommo him shifteted. i don't know if there'e's a caul relationonship there or not, bui do know that clipip was played constantly in iowa media, he was attacked relentlessly for it, anand he w wound up taking thir.

if you are presideial candididate -- ionon'blame elizabeth h warren for b being evasivee about it because iowowa will punishh y if you u come after that first in the nation status. and it ia problem because it is not good for the democratic party to have this onene emperor ive state cost of living the first in line. and go you have julian castro who will not make it to the debate tomorrow night, the candidates are all-white, yet there is a diverse group of candidates for the democratic party. at the start of october from charleston post and courier found buttigieg i don't like voter support and south carolina come in just 4% support overall, but now this poll shows he is almost 10% ahead o of all other candidateses in iowa. >> i w will caution about t that poll. i'm old enough to o remember wht -- whehen hermanan cain wawas te front runnener, soso there is on when you see a lot of movemenent in t the polls, just means peope are undecided. yes, buttigieg is a candidate

who seems to appeal very well to the white electorate in iowa. amy: we have to leave it there, ox andllhiser from v gilberto hinojosa from the

thank you for joining us on nhk "newsline." we start this hour on the latest on the spiraling violence in hong kong. a stand off continues at a university as antigovernment protesters refuse to surrender to police. about 100 people are believed to be hunkered down at hong kong polytechnic university. it is unclear when they will come out.