126/19 12/26/19 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> the problem is that if the vote were today, i believe he would win the electoral states that he would need because living out there, i will tell you, his level of support has not gone down one inch. in fact, i wld work rather than it was before. they are afraid he could lose because they have watched his behavior.

amy: today we spend the hour with oscar-winning filmmaker michael moore. on the 2020 election and impeachment. lastly, michael moore witnessed the historic impeachment vote from the front row of the house gallery. >> but the republicans let off this otherworldly noise -- it was not a boo, it was like a [groans] whatd to myself, that is the dyindown the source must have sounded like -- dinosaurs must have sounded like in her final moments. amy: all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. republicans and democrats are continuing to battle over the terms of president trump's impeachment trial in the senate. the house has impeached trump for abuse of power and

obstruction of congress, but house speaker nancy pelosi has withheld sending the articles of impeachment to the senate over concerns of an unfair trial. democrats are demanding the senate hear witnesses in the trial, which centers on how trump withheld mility aid from ukraine to pressure the ukrainian president to investigate trump's political rival, joe biden, ahead of the 2020 presidential election. on tuesday, alaska republican senator lisa murkowski said she was disturbed by senate majority leader mitch mcconnell's promise to coordinate the impeachment trial l with the white house. >> in fairness, when i heard that, i was disturbed. to me, that means we have to beinghat step back from hand in glove with the defense. and so i heard what leader mcconnell ha said. i happen to think that that has

further confused the process. amy: senator mitch mcconnell has also said he is not an impartial juror, leading democratic lawmakers to accuse the senate majority leader of trying to orchestratate a sham trial. president trump is facing criticism after he again attacked wind turbines during a speech in west palm beach, florida, saturday. pres. trurump: i know windmills very much.h. i have studied it betetr than ananybody. i know it is very expensive. they are made e china andnd germany, mostly. manufacturered aredous f fumes, gasases spewing into thehe atmosphere.e. you know we have a world, right? so the world is titiny comparedo the universrse. so tremendous, tremendous amount of f fumes and eveverything. you talk about the carbon footprint. fumes are spewing into the air.

spewing. amy: in fact, the energy department says wind power has the smallest carbon footprt of any energy source, responsible for 20 times less greenhouse gas per kilowatt-hour than coal-powered electricity. one scientific report concluded "wind turbines produce energy with virtually no emissions." former new york city mayor and 2020 presidential candidate michael bloomberg has come under massive criticism after the intercept revealed he used prison labor to make campaign calls. bloomberg's campaign subcontracted with the call center company procom to make his 2020 presidential calls. two of procom's call centers are operated out of state prisons in oklahoma. bloomberg claimed he wasn't aware of the prison labor until the intercept revealed the connection and that he has s sie cut ties with the compan in syria, thousands of civilians are continuing to flee an escalation of fighting in the northwestern province of idlib, whwhere syrian and r russian fos have launched anan all-out

offensive aimed at capturing one of syria's last rebel-held territories. ththis is mohammmmad ajaj, one f the tens of thousands of civilians who has been displaced to overcrowded refugee camps. >> we came due to t the shelling in the camp. we hardldly survived in the camp because it i is full of mud. people are suffering from cold nditions. may god help us. amy: in more news on syria, a top adviser to syrian leader bashar al assad is warni o of possibible operationons againsu. soldieie stationeded in easternn syria to guard oil f fields. the adviser r said the uninited states has no right to the oil and acaccused presidident trumpf tryingo steal it. in octctober, president trump abptpt withdrew u.s. soldierers from parts of nortrthern syria, clearingng the way for a turkish offensnsive against syrian k ku, and then re-statationed the u.s. troops in easterern syria sayin, "we want to keep the oilil." in burkina faso, nearly a dozen soldiers have been killed in an ambush in the northern province

-- in the north only one day after militants killed 35 civilians in an attack on a military base in the same region. tuesday's attack was one of the deadliest attacks in the last five years in burkina faso.. almost all of the victims were women. no group has claimed responsibility so far. burkina faso borders niger and mali, and has s experienced an creasing n number of attacks amidid growing violence e in the sahel. china is calling on the united states to fulfill the promises president trump made during last year's summit with north korean leaderim jong-un in singapore. the chinese foreign minister said north korea's legitimate concernsns have not been addresd and calledn the united states to take concrete steps to deliver on the historic agreement to work toward denuclearization of the korean peninsula. in the philippines, at least 21 people were killed and many more are missing after typhoon phanfone slammed into several central islands on christmas day. the typhoon descended on the philippines with winds up

118-miles per hour, destroying homes, flooding towns, and forcing people to evacuate. increasingly deadly typhoons have been linked to climate change, and the philippines is one of the countries most affected by climate-lated disasters, second only to japan. the united states has recalled its ambassador to zambia after zambia declared dael foote a persona non grata for criticizing the government's criminalization of homosexuality. ambassador foote said he was horrified that a judge in zambia has sentenced a gacouple to 15 years in prison for having sex. zambia is one of the largest recipients of u.s. aid per capita. longngtime bolivian president eo morales is vowing to return to bolivia after he was ousted in what he and others have described as a military coup. morales is currently in exile in argentina. on tuesday, he vowed to return to bolivia by nenext christmas.

>> for reasons of security, i i can't go into detail about the plane i have for returning to bolivia but onone has to go back to one's country. a defective government cannot understand that. it is not as transitional govevernment. if it were, it would not start changing social programs, it would just organize elections. amy: and separate interview morales also claimed the united tuesday, states played a role in forcing him from power, accusing the u.s. of orchestring his ouster in order to gain access to bolivia's vast lithium reserves. in hong kong, protesters poured into the streets on christmas evand christmas day, occupying shopping mallsnd clashing with police amid the going pro-democracy uprising against chinese control of the semi-autonomous territory. police attackethe protesters with tear gas, pepper spray, water cannons,nd batons. this is one of the protesters. rying to let everyone to know we won't celebrate

christmas because we want to protest evennhis day. amy: in rurussia, youth climate activist arshak makichyan has been freed from jail after staging a school strike in pushkin square, moscow, for re than 40 weeks. the 25-year-old violinist began his solo strike on fridays after being inspired by swedish climate activist greta thunberg. he was sentenced to six days in prison last friday on charges of participating in a protest without permission. he was released from prison earlier this morning and has vowed to continue his friday protests. this is arshak makichyan speaking earlier this month at u.n. climate summit in madrid spain, alongside greta thunberg. i am where everyone can be arrested for anything, but i am not afraid to be arrested. i'm afraid not to do enough.

and i think and i believe that we can change everything because behind us there are millions of people. behind us there is a sign. activism is the solution. amy: and milons of people around the world celrated christmas wednesday. pope francis prayed for migrants around the world and condemned "inhumane detention camps"s" during his annual christmas day address at st. peter's basilica in the vatican city. >> made the son of god come down to earth from heaven, protect and sustain all of those who, due to these and other injustices, areorced to emigrate in the hope of a secure life. it is injustice that makes them cross deserts and sees th become cemeteries. it is injustice that forces them to endure unspeakable forms of abuse, enslavement of every kind, and torture and inhumane detention camps. it is injustice that turns them away from places where they might have the hope of a

dignified le but instead find themselves before the walls of indifference. amy: the pope on christmas day. and the are some of the headlines. thiss democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. republicans and democrats are continuing to battle over the terms of president trump's impehment trial in the senate. the house impeach trump for abuse of power and obstruction of congress, but house speaker nay pelosi has withld sending the articles of impeachment to the senate over concerns of an unfair trial. democrats are demanding the senate hear witnesses in the trial which centers on how president trump withheld deleterious from ukraine to pressure the ukrainian president to investigate trump's political rival joe biden ahead of the 2020 presidential election. on tuesday, alaska republican senator lisa murkowski said in anchorage that she was disturbed by senate majority leader mitch mcconnell's promise of total

coornation with the white house. >> and fairness, when i heard that, i was disturbed. to me, it means we have to take that step back from being hand glove with the defense. what leaderrd mcconnell had said. hasppen to think that further confused the process. and because senator murkowski's comments mark a rare instance of dissent from the republican party, which has been unified behind president trump until now. senate majority leader mitch mcconnell needs 51 votes to set the rules for the hearing. republicans have a thin majority of 53 seats in the senate. well, fofor more, toy we spend the hour with h oscar-winning lmmaker michael moore to talk about impeachment and election

and why he thinks trump would --ld still win reelecti lan amy: we're going to go now to a clip of michael moore in his new podcastst " "rumble." hopes wilmington, delaware. i'm on the last train out of washington, d.c. back to new york city. it was impeachment day in washington, d.c. at midght last night, i thought, geez,, new york, i washington,s near white we just had down to d's?

we got up in the morning and went down to the penn station and got othe train. let's go see if we can get into the capita blding so we can watch the impeachment of donald trump. live and in person that was our goal this morning. we had no idea if we could get in there. we just hopped the train. --s is michael moore philadelphia is next. this is my podcast, episode number three. "rumble with michael moore." amy: that is michael moore's new podcast. he was recording from the train after the imachment. the, from the train to studios, from the podcast to our broaast, today we spend the rest of the hour with michael moore. i asked him to respond to just how he got in n to watch the

impeachment and what it was like. without knowing whether we could get in or not, so we did not have any tickets or anything. we got there and there was t ths huge line. then i said, we are pretty good when we are making a movie getting in to places where we don't belong. how can we get into this? that i thought, wait a minute. sont has a congressman, let's see if we can get in there. office in then's cannonouse office building. just as i opened the door, there at the door is ralph ner. i'm like, whoa. i have not seen him in a long time. -- hey, dan, can we use your office? ralph, you have to do a podcast with me. we sat down for 40 minutes and talked to ralph about all of the things i have been wanting t talk to him about for i don't

know, 20 years. but we got in and we got to sit down in the front row. there were three empty seats. my sister and my friend and i were all there. we sat there for four or five hours watching the debate. and the vote. i'm telling you, it is not like it is on c-span. c-span is such a two-dimensional -- it flattens everything out, very strictly framed. you don't get the peripheral vision on c-span. one of the things i tell my crew go to filmallowed to schools to talk to students, i say, you will find more truth in the peripheral than in the spot on. in the spot on, you're getting the official story. you are getting whatever it is they want you to report. what is going on over here, what is going on around you, if you have a sense of trying to pay attention to that you will find things that you will never see in a documentary or a movie or

nightly news. so what i sawaw from that frorot roofof the gallele lasast a a bitday was both exhilararating and f frightenin. exhihilarati in n the sense you can see on t the democratitic se that many of them had found the courage of their convictions. had found their soul, their guts to stand up for this. even though the polls show it is kind of a 50/50 in the country on impeachment, a little more in favor of it. but nonetheless, a risky proposition, especially for a number of democrats in swing diststricts. the fact they would take that stand su a profound way and all of the eloquence they were saying at the microphone was -- and i can watch the republicans as they were saying these eloquent and necessary things. you don't see that on c-span. the republicans are over there mocking these democrats.

the mocking level goes up if it is someone of color, if it is a woman, if it is somebody who is not them. because when you're looking at the republican side, man, is male.hite and old and it is stunning in 2019 that it looks like an episode of "leave it to beaver" over there and not the real ameca we live in. they are so any. they go to the microphone and spew this anger and all of the angry old men in their seats squirming and making these sounds. the very last sound they made when the vote passed that trump was impeached, losi had told the democrats, no applause were cheering. if you go back and listen to that, the cheering you hear is

my sister and myself. let out thisns noise, this otherworldly noise. it was not a boo. it was like a [groans] it is like, wow. i said to my sister, that is what the dying dinosaurs must have sounded like in their final moments. the gd news here, those of the dying nosaurs. they know it because the demogrhic has changed. it is not there america anymore. it is -- 70% of the eligible vors next november are either or youngople of color, people between 18 and 35. that is the majority of the people eligible to vote next year, not them. they a the minority. they know it. whitenow by the 20/40's pele will be the minority. the racial element never gets

discussed but i think that is what is usually driving them. nermeen: michael, these dying dinosaurs, the republica, have been dismissive of the charges against trump. i would like to turn to. loudermilk who essentially compared donald trump to jesus. >> six them, guarantees e right of the defendant face their accuser but not only have the democrats prohibited republicans in the president from questioning the so-called whistleblower, his identity has been cap secret. before you take this historic vote today, one weebefore christmas, i want you to keep this in mind. whenesus was falsely accused of treason, pontius pilate gave jesus the opportunity to face his accusers. dung that sham trial, pontius pilate afforded morrights to jesus than the democrats have afforded this president and this process. nermeen: michael, your response to what loudermilk said? in particular, y've made the point when you were growing up, there is no way the republican

party would stand by what donald trump has been doing, what someone like dald trump has done. so what do you think accounts for this shift in the republican party? first, respond what loudermilk said. >> let me just say because i went to catholic school, that rendering of pontius pilate in jesus is completely wrong. did not get to face the cusers, did not get the trial. pilate is just deciding he is the oppressor from rome, palestine, judea, whatever it was called then, was an occupied territory by romans. to point out,want we have very progressive nuns in our catholic school. sadly, a lot of catholics are taught the jews killed jesus. s were like, no, that the did not kill jesus,

italians killed jesus. that is a fact. werenk because the nuns all irish, too. so none of tha happened, what he just said. iat is true for most of -- can't explain it. nobody can explain it because it seems like an ali invasion is taken place. these seem like pod people. photo on a great instagram of a shot of them sitting there. it really looks like invasion of the pod people. they have taken over our human form. they just spew things that are just completely not true. i believe trump told them the sun rose in the west, they would back that 100%. none of it matters to them. they don't care. you're right. when i was going up -- i mean, my grandfather was born in the 19th century. he came out of those republicans

that were lincoln people and their abolitionists and supported women's right to vote, etc. he would not even recognize this at all. -- what i encourage people to do, especially over the holidays if you have republican relative coming over for christmas dinner or -- i was going to savor hanukkah, but i don't know why first of all you would have republican relative. and second of all, i don't know why he would even come. but let's say you do. you can't -- don't waste any of your ener. all of our energy has to be on getting out the people who are the majority of this country. the majoty of our fellow americs ---- and we could not sasay this during the early women's movement, during vietnam, during the civil rights movement. we could not say the majority of americans support civil rights. kingnd mallm x and everybody -- there was work to be done.

climate change is real. the majority of americans believe minimum wage is too low. go down the whole list, the majority agreed with what is discussed on this show every signal day. hats off to you and everybody else who has worked all these year the majority of our fellow americans now share these progressive values. the onus is on us then. w do we get the vote out with the people that already agree with us? oscar-winning film maker miael moore. when we come back, he talks about why he thinks trump could win reelection despite impeachment. stay with us. ♪ [music break] impeachment. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: "impeach the president" by the honeydrippers. this is democracy no, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. as we spend the hour with oscawinning filmmaker michael moore.

his most recent documentary is "fahrenheit 11/9." his other films include "michael moore in trumpland," "fahrenheit 9/11," "bowling for columbine," "sicko," "capitalism: a love story," "where to invade nt," and "roger & me." michael moore has just launched a new project, a podcast called "rumble with michael moore." as democracy now!'s rmeen shaikh and i continued our interview with michael, we ask about trump's comments at a rally on impeachment night when trump spoke about michigan decrat debbie dingell. michael moore is from michigan, andebbie diningell holds the seat formerly held bher husband john dingell, who died earlier is yeaand held the distinction as longest serving u.s. congressman. >> debbie dingell, that is a real beauty. so she calls me up like eight months ago. her husband was ill. long time. the beid not give him treatment, cr d. i gave the a-plus treatment. take down the flights.

why you take them down? congressman dingell. oh, ok. do this. do that. rotunda come everything. that's ok. i don't want anything -- i don't need anything for anything. she calls me up. it is the nicest thing that is ever happen. thank you so much. john would be so thrilled. he is looking down, he would be so thrilled. thank you so much, sir. i said, that's ok, don't worry about it. maybe he is looking up, i don't know. and there is president trump in michigan and battle creek attacking the congressmember debbie dingell and her recently deceased husband john dingell. >> right. obviously i know both of them. i knew him. no her. michigan. what is sprising? he is crass and cruel and he is a bully.

if you ever went through elementary sool or middle school or high school, you know who the bully is. you know how the bully behaves. that is the way it works for him. amy: you talk about the importance of understanding president trump. exain why he would say this and battle creek, michigan. how is dingell viewed? the now deceased congressman he said is looking up from hell. >> well -- actually, i had tickets to that event. once it was announced wednesday was going to be impeachment day and i'm waiting until that morning to decide, shall we fly to michigan? i actually got tickets. you can sign up and get them under a different name. we were all going to go to battle creek. battle creek is breakfast, both kello's and post are there. all of your frosted flicks. are you frosted flakes or cap'n crunch?

i'm guessing you're not cap'n crunch. we wanted to go there. i had friends go. they said, you can't really tell by the sound levels and the way the picture is framed, but in e greater arena, people were stunned. they were like -- one of those moments where you say, yeah, was some people, there is a bridge too far for them, that was a idge too far and the sort of laughter you here was not laughing that this man is in hell who just died, but it is that nervous laughter, "i can't believe he just said that." so more of that, mr. trump. that will help. amy: do you think that is where christianity today is coming from, billy graham's magazine that does that trump should not only be impeached, but should be ousted? >> ousted and jailed. amy: the most powerful evangelical magazine. >> i think -- honestly, i hold a

position on the senate trial i don't think many people have. i will tell u how think it could possibly happewhere he could be removed. first of all, nancy pelosi is doing the right thing by holding it up until we have a real court, not a kangaroo court. we need to be able to call john bolton as a witness. john bolton, i predict, will be the alexander butterfield of this trial. he was the person he worked in the nixon white house who just blurted out -- i think they knew ahead of time, t the public did not know -- blurted out during thempeachment hearings for nixon that nixon had taped every conversation in the oval office since the beginning. the public was like, what? those tags helped to bring nixon down. bolton knows what is on that national security server where ey were hiding the ukraine call. right after the crying call, all of the trompe l'oeil list got together and said, that is illegal what just happened.

after the call, all of the trump loyalists together inside, that is illegal what just happened. you think that is the first time? do you think that was the very first time trump broke the law, try to extort somebody, bribe somebody? no. we all know the answer. even republicans know it. that is why they don't want the witnesses. they don't want bolton, because even though he is not one of us, he will not lie under oath. he will tell the truth. he will say, i happen to know we put other things on that server, too. and that point, the server will have to be subpoenaed and the american people will hear what else is on the server and it will make ukraine look like no -kraine. the average american will stop looking for where ukraine is on the map and they will start -- they're not going to believe what they're going to hear. if that get -- that can happen. that is why pelosi and these guys are pushing. roberts is presiding over this.

amy: the chief justice of the supreme court. >> he will preside over it. maybe he has some say in this, too. let's say it happens. here's what could happen. there are 53 republicans. trump can keep the majority of them as his supporters. 33 of them. yay, the 53 can still be, donald. we only need 20 to remove him. i believe this, amy. i know it is going to sound crazy. the c crazier things haveve hapd in our lifetimime. nobody ever expected mandel out of prison, let alone become the president of south africa. and never thought i would see the berlin welcome down. ?ay maiage, same-sex marriage after 2004 when 14 states put it in the constitution making it a crime to be in love with summative their gender. no. we have witnessed ings we never thought -- a black man being elected president of the united states. never in your life didou think that would happen 12 or 14 years ago. you have to go with me on the

possibibility of this of why we should push for a real trial in the senate because if it comes out that there are other things on that server and if we hear what is on that server, he is going to lose 20 senators. here's how he will lose them. there will be 20 who are going to be -- there are already five or six republicans afraid they will lose their senate seat this coming year. but there will be 10 republicans of the 53 who are gog to be scared to death that they are going to be removed either in 2020, 20 22, or 2024. they are going -- out of self-interest, not go down with the ship. not go with trump. they are going to vote to remove him because of what has been revealed. that is 10. the other tent is the desk the other 10 is the royal religious led by mitt romney. no judgment, but they are real believers. and th have had to hold their

nose at the morality of this guy. those tt christianity today could no longer hold when they ote that editorial that he has to go. there are 10 true believers who believed in a christianity enough to where they find him standsve, repugnant, and against everything they believe in. and there are going to be 10 of those led by romney that will say, i morally cannot support this any longer. i want to believe of the 53, there are 10 who have a conscience and truly believe in christianity or the mormonism to the point where they are not going to attach themselves throughout history to this man. they don't want their kids to grow up, grain kids to grow up to be like this. it is an awful, awful thing. amy: how does nancy pelosi guarantee this? >> she is doing what s can do

right now by not giving them the articles of impeachment. there's going to be a big fight. but i think shshe did thright thing. i think if she is successful, if witnesses -- the latest poll on that 1, 70 2% of the american public believe witnesses should be called. en republicans believe that. truth, whatlls the is on th server, boom. mic drop. nermeen: but no republican in the house support of the article of impeachment. >> they still think they can get away with that. the key factor here is the revelation of more than just ukraine, things that really affect people in their daily lives. how many times have we seen in the past when the mic is accidentally left on and se politicians as they don't ve a crab about the working person or mitt romney himself when it was

the on talkin about have-nots come all of the takers. something far worse than that has been hidden on the server. they don't want the american people to hear it because of the american people heard it, even the people who do not share my politics, would say that is enough and there would be hopefully 10 senators who want to get reelected and maybe might not now and there would look out for themselves and there's going to be 10 who actually lived by a code. they have now for three years subjugated that. they have bowed down the devil and they know it and they feel awful about it and they are enough once we hear what else is on that server. possiblemy optimistic scenario of what could happen. i know everybody is, no,t is

not going to happen, nothing we can do. cynic.t a i am an opmist. don't believe- i in hope. i am against hope. seriously. think hope is a fools errand right now. we need action. i don't need anybody sitting around hoping. forget hope. get up, rise up, turn f the tv, put denver device. get out there and be involved. in your neighborhood, just decide -- the primaries and caucuses are coming up. get involved. if you don't want to work with the local democrats, don't. organize people yourself. appoint yourself neighborhood captain for bernie. don't even bother to campaign with it. they probably don't like me saying this, but i think it people will take their government in their own hands desko it right now, doubt d't do it in may, do it now.

we have a fighting chae. amy: you say, michael, that if the election were held today, trump would win. let's go to trump on impeachment night just as nancy pelosi was saying yes that president trump was impeached and reading the numbers, the vote 230-229. he was speaking in your home state of michigan. he was speaking and battle creek. pres. trump: wh today's illegal unconstitutional and partisan impeachment -- [boos] pres. trump: the do-nothing demoats -- and they are do nothing. all they want to do is focus on , declaring their disdain for the amamerican voter. this lawless partisan impeachment is a political suicide march for the democratic party. have you seen my polls in the last four weeks? [applause]

it is crazy. amy: that is president trump impeachment night in your state. interestingly, you kind of agree wiwith them. you think he would win now. looks if it were held today -- hillary won by 3 million popular votes. i think over the democrat's next year is going to win by 4 million to 5 million popular votes. there's no question in my mind that people who stayed home, who sat on the bench, they are going to pour out in california and new york. but also in texas and whatever, places that trump will probably win but there's going to be a much higher percentage of people voting against them. the problem is, if the vote were today, i believe he would win the electoral states he would need because living out there, i will tell you, his level of support has not gone down one inch. in fact, i was saying it is even more rabid than it was before. they are afraid he could lose because they watched his

behavior, so they areoracious in their appetite for donald trump. thats the bad news. numberd news is, again, one, never forget, there is more of us than there are of them, the mority of people agree with us, 70% of the voters next year are women, people of color, and young adults. all of that on our side. we have to make sure we don't give them another hillary clinton to vote for. the democrats who are encouraging moderation, go to the center, let's not upset the angry white guys -- really what it is. the voter they are trying to convince -that is why we have to have biden. we've got to have closure. we have to have somebody who was somewhere wherever that middle is now. there's really nobody in that middle. even the fox news poll last week supported impeachment and conviction.

40% didn't. then they asked the question, how maybe would support impeachment but no remal? 4%, 5%. there is nobody trng to have it both ways. it is polarized, but for good reason. polarization is always talked about like it is a bad thing. i think it is a good tng. i think if you think women should have the right to vote, i don't think there's a middle position. you either believe women should vote or -- either believe a fertilized egg is a human being or not. there is no middle ground. our site has got to take this by the rains and it has to have the courage of our conviions to fight this. if we do this, then he won't when the electoral states. hillary only lost michigan by two votes per precinct. that is it. it is not because lunch bucket joe stayed home or votedor trump.

it is because -- when they talk about the working class, amy, this drives me crazy. what happened was the democratic party did not stand up in the way they should have for what the youth wanted, for what people of color needed. there were 90,000 people in michigan who went to the polls, mostly democratsin very large numbers of them in detroit, flint, pontiac, saginaw -- these are all black cities, majority black. they stood in line in the cold for two to three hours to vote. they went in and voted for state reps, state senate, county commission. .rain commissior they stood and voted for the democrats all down ballot and left the top box blank. she only lost michigan by 10,000 or 11,000 votes.

90,000 wanted to send a message to the democratic party, you forgot as a long time ago out up with we will not put th anymore. we're not going to vote for trump, but we are not going to tolerate you sending us another republican, white democrat. if we go that route, if we go that route it is guaranteed we will lose the electoral college. we will win when we put somebody on that ballot tt excites the color, women, people of young people. when they wake up that morning, they feel the way many of you watching felt the -- in 2008 when you're going to get to go and vote for barack obama and you cannot believe this was happening in your lifetime. if you remember that feeling, not talking about -- i'm just talking about that morning. that feeling has g got to happen and 18-30 five-year-old demographic. it has to happen with people of coloand with women. we already feel that way. they already feel that way.

it is, will they come out and vote for centrist, moderate candidate. i don't think that will haen. they will come out and vote for the fighter, the person who shares their values. in the valleys of the majority of this country are the progressive values, in my opinion. i am for bernie sanders. i understand why people want to vote for elizabeth warren or -- well, i don't know, anybody else actually has those particular values. so both of them are good. i've had elizabeth in a couple in a couple of my films. but bernie sanders. bernie sanders has the record. when elizabeth said a few weeks ago she voted republican until 1996, that really kind of took me. i think i'm ok, we welcome everybody. .o back to bernie in 1963, the photo of him -- i don't know if anybody has it in the control room -- of him being arrested as a college student in a civil rights demonstration. 1963.

that is bernie sanders. he is not doing a thing they teach us to do in civil disobedience where you just goldlink -- go limp. he is fighting the cops. that is bernie sanders. he has never changed. history.ere is a so many of his ideas are now the popular way in terms of minimum wage, and eql pay, mass incarceration, these things. just like any candidate, he is a politician. people watching this will have the disagreements or whatever. one thing you cannot disagree with is he has been true to his convictions. he will fight like hell for us. the facthat 52% of young people are for him in the latest poll. him.f young voters are for the millennial that is running, 2%. people running his age. buttigieg.

>> buttigieg. the youngest peoe want the oldest person. why? how can th be? i think is because they know their future is screwed. the future of f this planet -- they probly think come and maybe not right, that it is already to late. bill mckibben came on this show 10, 12 years ago and told us if we went about 350 partper million of carbon in the atmosphere, that is it. there is no turning back. there's no reversing it. we are at 415 part. the younger generation -- myself -- i will probably make out of here without the awful, horrific collapse. i will see some of it. we are seeing some of it now. bernie is fighting for this. they know he is fighting for their futu. bernie has no future. no offense, if he is watching. live long and prosper. but let's admit it, he's in the final quarter ofis life.

he is willing give up his final years to fight so these 18 to 35-year-olds will have a future. and they know that. that is why they are for him. other adults my age, maybe we owe it to the young people because we were supposed to leave them a better country, we were supposed to leave them a better planet. and we, the 60's and 70's generation, we have not done that. maybe we owe it to these young people to get behind the personn they want. it is their future. that is our responsibility. amy: oscar-winning filmmaker michael moore. when we come back, we talk about one of the main topics of the election so far for voters, health carare. we w will be bacack in a m mome. ♪ [music break]

amy: "can the circle be unbroken" by the carter family. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and pee report. i'm amy goodman. spend the hour with the acclaimed film maker michael moore who joined us in our new york studio just before christmas. i interviewed him with nermeen check. we asked him about one of the major issues of concern in this country. that is health care. a topic michael moore tackle in

his documentary "sicko." >> we have an issue in america. oyn are n able to actice their love with women all roross ts cocouny. >> when michae moore decided t makeovie on e healthare industry, top-level executives re o on e defensive. what were they hiding? no.hat's t on, right? >> >>he intenis tmamize profits. >> wheyou don'spend money somebody, thais a savings to the mpanany. >> i want americtoto havthee finest hlth caca in the world. >> four health carlolobbyi foror every y mber of ngress. he's what it costs to buy thes men, this woman, thiguy and thisuy a and u unite stes splits health care arndnd e woworl slightly had oslovenia

>> this sered my reputation dnjured mcontinue advancemeninin theealth ca fid. in the world's richtt country >> iorked the js. isn't it?y american, mean, that is fantastic >> lghghter notot t best medine >> i get aill tellg me the ambulance dede wasow preapproved. i i don't kn when i was sposed to preapoved it. after i gaed consciousness in the r?r? before i got in thamambulae? >> it is the only medinene. >> one place on american soi that had free iviversahealalth carere >> which way to gutanamo b? >> dainees are given access to top-notc medical facilities. >> permission tonter. i have 39/11 resescue wor. i just want medical attenon.

amy: that was "sicko." about health care in this country. i want to turn right now to the debate moderators, the news ,ersonalities on television framing the question of health care as a ration of will you increase our taxes. >> you have not specified how you're going to pay for the most expensive plan, medicare for all. will you raise taxes on the middle class to pay for it, yes or no? >> it will drive up taxes to pay for health care. not just the wealthy, the middle class will also pay for it. what do you say to voters who are worried your position on medicare for all could cost you critical vototes in the general election? >> senator sanders has been candid about the fact middle-class taxes will go up and most private entrance will be eliminated. will you make that same admission? some of thes

questions news personalities and debate moderators are asking of the presidential candidates when it comes to medicare for all. "are you going to increase taxes?" ta about the framing of that. >> these questions are asked by the morators who work for news organizations owned by large conglomerates who have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. the real question never gets asked in terms of -- i want to how much it will cost and taxes. the answer is, well, we pay more in taxes than any country on earth. more than the scandinavians more thann the french. people are like, what you mean by that? no, we don't. i said it is because we lie. we don't cl what they get for their taxes -- we don't call it a tax here. we call it tuition. we call it copayment. daycare.t -- i mean,

daycare fees. , countriesnorway like that, they get those things for free or nearly free because they pay taxes for it and everybody gets it. you're qualified to go to the sorbonne in paris, you go ere for free. -- iny for your books and france. daycare in france is about -- if you make a lot of money coming up pay two dollars an hour for your daycare of your kids. if you take the average of what people spend just on daycare, what you spend a week, let's say you're paying a couple hundred dollars we can daycare, probably more for some people. let's say your college debt you're paying off is a couple hundred dollars a month. let's say during the year two co-pay and deductibles -- well, the average american pays about $6,000 between things that are

not cored or they have to pay part of the premium, co-pay, deductible. add all of that up, the $200 a month for daycare and the college. for your that is $2500 for each of those. now you're at $5,000, $6,0,000 r the health care. each american is paying about $11,000 that y don't pay if you arfrenchr spanish or swedish. yet we don't call it a tax. we have all of these other fake names for. they just get this stuff and they get a good version of it. and ie making this film had the flu or something, it was the middle of e night and i did not feel good. our french producer said comeau, just get the doctor to come over. i said, it is like 2:00 in the morning. i said, you mean doctors make house calls? he said, yes. we will have to p $50 wn he or she gets here.

but if you are french, the internet in and get the $50 reimbursed. so 2:00 in the morng, a doctor arrived where i was staying and checked me out, to the fer was ok or whatever. they gave him $50. i'm not going to get the $50 back because i am not french, but i could not believe it. one of the women -- american ex-pats that lives there, she said, the reason we don't have this in the u.s. the reason they have it in france is because in france, the government is afraid of the people. in the u.s., the people are afraid of th government. as long as you are afraid of the government, afraid of losing your job, "i can't lose my job i ed the benefits" -- i fnce, the benefits are already there. it is a human right. you want to quit your job? you want to start a strike? yowant to try to unionize someplace that is not unionized? you will not lose your job. amy: mass protests and streets all over france. >> do it.

you won't lose your health care. your kids can still go to daycare. your parents that are in old age home, they are taking care of. none of that is coming out of your pocket. wow. think of their freedom. the absolute freedom if you did not have to worry about how to pay for these things and how much extra time you have to get politically involved. our system is set up so you are struggling from paycheck-to-paycheck where you don't know what is going to happen next, you're constantly on the edge of, "what if i lose my job?" you lose yr job in france, the government will take care of you to find a new one. they must be taxing people. military, the gdp -- i'm not certain, but i'm sure it in the single digits. how much of your taxes goes to homeland security or the military? i'm sure it is over 50%. that is how we to just been our money. what if we chose to spend itn the people?

how much better would be. a: michael moore, thank you for being with us, academy award-winning filmmaker. his most recent documentary is "fahrenheit 11/9." his other films include "michael moore in trumpland," "fahrenheit 9/11," "bowling for columbine," "sicko," "capitalism: a love story," "where tinvade next," -- >> that's is a good one. and for last week he observed the impeachment vote from the front row of the gallery and yes just launched a new project, a podcdcast called "rumble with michael moore." you areoing it daily? >> just to the holidays, mostly everyday. i've never done this before. you had a radio show like forever, so you're used to this. i'm a filmmaker, so i started a week ago, last tuesday. i am going to do it until new year's pretty much on a daily basis. yesterday i did one from my dentist chair. i had dental work done. the dentist is very political.

i always talk to him about politics. i asked him, would you mind if i recorded this? get both of us talking about trump and murdoch and also you hear him drooling my two teeth. i know it will feepainful to listen to thdrill, but nothing is more painful than what we've had to go through the last three years. amy: filmmaker and activist michael moore. "s most recent documentary 11/9." he won an academy award for his film "bowling for columbine." he has just launched aew project, a podcast called "rumble with michael moore." we will talk with him more in the coming days about a major topic of this election, guns and gun control and war. that does it for today's show. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to treach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york, new york 10013. [captioning made possible by democracy now!]

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