04/13/20 04/13/20 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: f from new yorkrk city, t e epicenter of democracy now! the pandemic, this is pres. trump: we have to get our country open. the metrics right here. amy: as president trump points to his head of the measure for deciding how to respond to the coronavirus pandemic, the u.s. surpasses the deathh tololl of y

country in the world with more than 2 22,000 dead. we will look at what leded to ts , leadwith eric lipton author of "you could have seen what was coming." then we go to detroit, site of the first u.s. major study into whether or not the antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine could help prevent the spread of coronavirus. this after weeks of president trump promoting the drug despite the warnings from medical experts. pres. trump: that is hydroxychloroquine. again, you have to go through yoyour medical people to get the approval, but i have seen things that i sort of like. so what do i know? not a doctor. i'm not a doctor, but i have common sense sense. amy: we will get response from dr. abdul el-sayed, former head

of dittrich department of health. we will also look at the ongoing water shutoffs in detroit. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and quarantine report. i'm amy goodman. the united states has the highest number of recorded covid-19 deaths, at over 22,000, after it surpassed italy's death toll on saturday. all 50 states now have a major disaster declaration in place. over half a million cases have been identified nationwide, but testing remains limited, making the true number of cases unknown. worldwide, there are over 1.8 million confirmed cases and over 115,000 deaths due to the coronavirus. over easter weekend in the united states, many churches and families held virtual celebrations, though some pastors defied social distancing guidelines to hold in-person gatherings.

meanwhile, a a grim m picture is emerging of the coronavirus's impact on nursing homes, where over 2200 deaths have been reported, though the true number is also expected to be much higher since many states either do not report this data, or in some cases, do not even track it. here in new york city, nearly 6000 news cases over the last day has put the city's total number of coronavirus infections at over 104,000, with over 9300 deaths. susunday was the sixth straiaigt day in which more than 700 deaths were reported, though governor andrew cuomo noted hospitalizations were down. on sunday, trump reposted a tweet calling for the firing of white house coronavirus task force scientist dr. anthony fauci after he acknowledged in a cnn interview that adopting

lockdown measures earlier on could have saved lives. >> you can logically say that if you had a process that was ongoing and you starteded mitigation eararlier, you cocoud have saved lives. no one is going to deny that. but what goes into those kinds of decisions is complicated step you are e right, obviously, if e had from the beginning shutt everything down come, hahave ben a little different, but there was a lot of pushback about shutting things down back then. amy: on friday, president trump suggested he could order the reopening of the couountry as early as may 1. pres. trump: i will say this, i want to get it open as soon as we can. we have to get our country open, jeff. >> what metrics will you u use? metrics righthe here. amy: he pointed to his head. the world health organization has warned against prematurely easing restrictions. meanwhile, dozens of tornadoes and severe storms have left a trail of damage in states including texas, louisiana,

mississippi, and georgia, as the southern states grapple with the coronavirus. at least 14 people have been killeded by the extreme weather. the trump administration is working to slash the wages of migrant farmworkers, even as it works to send direct aid to farmers and ranchers hurt by the cororonavirus pandemic. the plan, led by white house chief of staff mark meadows and agriculture secretary sonny perdue, would lower pay for some 250,000 foreign guest laborers, even though they've officially been declared essential workers. the immigrant rights group movimiento cosecha tweeted in response -- "the lives of essential workers feeding the country during this pandemic simply do not matter to the agriculture industry or to the government." the united states postal service is appealing to congress for $89 billion in federal grants,

warning that without assistance, the coronavirus pandemic will leave the agency insolvent by september. the appeal came after the trump administration successfully blocked a $13 billion direct grant to the postal service in the $2.2 trillion coronavirus relief bill, instead offering the agency a $10 billion loan. postmaster general megan brennan says that's not enough to prevent disruption of regular mail delivery by the fall. the looming crisis comes as many states are looking to expand voting by mail ahead of the november election. in a tweet, vermont senator bernie sanders urged congress to act to save the u.s. postal service. in philadelphia, over 200 nonviolent prisoners were released from jails on the first week of judges holding emergency hearings aimed at reducing the prison populatation amid the coronavirus outbreak. protesters have been calling for prisoners to be freed since the lockdowns started.

on friday, hundreds of cars rallied outside philadelphia jails for a #freeourpeople rally. in arizona, over 700 people joined a car rally friday outside the privately-owned eloy detention center and la palma correctional facility near phoenix, demanding the immediate release of all immigrants in custody as covid-19 cases continue to rise. as of last week, there were five confirmed cases in arizona, including two inside la palma though activists say the numbers are likely much higher. this is stephanie figgins ramirez, an activist with trans queer pueblo at friday's rally. >> we call on the governor to publicly pressure ice to shut downwn the detention centers coe to free all migrants and stop removal operations. we also call on the governor to stop funneling more people into by ending sheriff

and ice collaboration in county jails. amy: in related news, women imprisoned at the otay mesa detention center near san diego say corecivic -- the private company that runs otay mesa -- sent a shipment of surgical masks to the facility last week but that prisoners were told they first had to sign a contract protecting corecivic from liability if they became sick. when the women refused to sign, ice guards reportedly pepper sprayed them. the contract requirement has since been withdrawn. activists held a car rally outside otay mesa saturday protesting the attack. the coronavirus outbreak has hit workers in the food processing industry hard, as meatpacking plants have reported explosions in coronavirus cases. in sioux falls, south dakota, a pork processing plant closed down after nearly 240 workers tested positive, representing over half the active cases covid-19 cases in the state. 130 workers at a cargill meat solutions plant in pennsylvania tested positive for covid-19, with many others calling in sick.

elsewhere in pennsylvania, a union steward at the jbs beef slaughterhouse died last friday of the coronavirus infection. deaths have also been reported in georgia and colorado. many meat-processing facilities employ large numbers of immigrants, including undocumented workers. smithfield ceo warned the pandemic i is pushining u.s. met supplies "carelessly close to the edge." in guam, the u.s. navy said testeted600 sailorsrs have popositive foror covid-19 on the embattled uss theodore roosevelt. former acting navy secretary thomas modly was forced to resign last week after he called former captain of the nuclear-powered vessel, brett crozier "too naive or too stupid" to run the ship after crozier sent a mememo pleading r help as his crew started t testg positive for the coronavirus.

in reproductive rights news, a federal judge ruled sunday that alabama cannot ban abortions during the coronavirus outbreak. alabama and other states have sought to ban abortions during the crisis by claiming they are not essential medical procedures. meanwhile, abortion providers in texas asked the supreme court saturday to allow medical abortions -- meaning abortions that do not require surgery but simply taking medication -- during the pandemic. texas has banned nearly all abortions s during the coronavis crisis. british prime minister boris johnson was released from the hospital sunday as he continuess to recover from covid-19. in a videoeo message, he thanked the national healtlth service staff f who took carare of him.. >> i've today have left hospital after a a week in which h the ns has saved my life, no question. it i is hard to find words to express my debt. amy: this comes as criticism mounts over boris johnson government's response to the

coronavirus crisis, including failure to get enough ppe and tests to nhs workers. britain's official coronavirus death toll has now topped 10,000 and officials warned it could end up with the highest number of fatalities in europe. at the vatican, pope francis delivered an easter sermon via video stream from a nearly-empty saint peter's basilica on easter sunday. the whole world is suffering and needs to be united in faith in the pandemic. me the risen jesus grant hope to all the poor, to those living on thee periphery, toto refugees ad the homeless. amy: with over 20,000 deaths, italy has suffered the highest death toll in europe and second highest globally after the united states. prime minister giuseppe conte extended the country's lockdown

to make third. it was originally set to expire today. meanwhile, spain, which now has over 17,000 covid-19 deaths, is slowly reopening some sectors of its economy. spain's daily death toll rose sunday to 619 but authorities say the rate of infections was at its lowest. authorities say the rate continues to fall. in russia, moscow hospitals say they are seeing a major spike in cases and have been overwhelmed with admissions in recent days as russia's death toll topped 100. winding lines of ambulances were reported at one moscow hospital where one ambulance driver said saturday he had to wait 15 hours to drop off a patient. china has reported 108 new covid-19 cases in the past 24 hours, the highest number of new infections in over a month. chinese authorities say most of the cases are so-called "important infections"s" involvg people returning from other countries. the increase h has stoked fearsf a a second wave of infections in china.

in brazil, a yanomami teenagager has reportedly died of covid-19, making him the first member of the community to die of coronavirus. yanomami leadeders reportedly suspect illegal gold miners may bebe responsible o of bringing coronavirus into the community. the teen's passing is the second death of an indigenous person in brazil as fears mount of a massive e deadly outbreak k amog isolated indigenouous groups living deep inin the b brazilian amazon. in other news from brazil, a study involving chloroquine's effect on n coronavirurus paties was stopped after participants developed irregular heart rates and the risk of a potentially fatal arrhythmia. president trump has repeatedly touted hydroxychloroquine to treat covid 19. we will have more on that later in the broadcast. in syria, thousands of people displaced by fighting in idlib province have begun moving back into their homes, hoping a tentative ceasefire remains in effect. about one million people have fled a russianan-backed, syrian-government offensive over the past year to crowded camps

nenear the turkikish border. one man who rerecently retururnd home said his family feared the spread of disease more than bombs s and mortars. >> the living spaces are overcrowded. there is been a lot of .isplacement recently the camps became very crowded. we decided to come back to our town. thank god. we pray we are safe here. amy: the democratic republic of the congo reported two new cases of ebola over the weekend, just days before officials were set to declare an end to the latest outbreak of the deadly disease. the drc is also struggling to contain a measles outbreak and fears are growing that the novel coronavirus has spread far beyond the 235 cases and 20 deathshs reported soso far. in l libera, policice in riot tr used truncheons and sticks to beat people who remained in the streets of the capital monrovia saturday as a lockdown for the city of 1 million people went into effect. many residents said the threat of hunger fafar outstrippeped te

threat of coronavirus. >> how do you expect them to be safe? corona is not going to kill many people. it is the hunger. amy: african nationals in china say they face stigmatization and discririmination. some say they have had their passport seized, been evicted from hotels and a apartments, tested repeatedly without receiving results. opec members, russia, and other oil-producing countries have made an agreement to cut oil production by 10 million barrels per day -- or a tenth of global supppply -- in response to the l price crash as a result of the coronavirus pandemic andnd an ol price war between n russia and saudi arabiaia. the cuts may not be enough to boost pririces since ththe ot would still significantly exceed current demand. may boeve, executive director of

350.org, also condemned the agreement, saying -- "it does not address the structural overproduction of oil and it doesn't get us towards what's really needed, a managed decline of the fossil fuel industry. the oil price collapse is a stark warning to any investor who thinks that they can still profit from funding fossil fuel companies." canada passed a record $52 billion bill saturday subsidizing salaries by 75% for qualified businesses in order to stem mass layoffs amid the coronavirus crisis. canada has reported nearly 25,000 cases and over 700 deaths. the partner of julian assange is calling on b british aututhorits to release the wikileaks founder over f fears of coronavirus infection as she reveals the pair had two children together and got engaged while assange was taking refuge in the ecuadorian embassy. in a v video releasesed by wikikileaks, lawyeyer stella mos says she metet assange when n se

ststarted helpining with his extradition n case. he faces up to 1 175 years inn prprison for hisis role in publishing u.s. classified documents exposing u.s. war crimes in iraq and afghanistan. assange is currently locked up at l london's s belmarsh pririsr bail v violations anand is sched hearingsxtradition next month. and tara reade, who has accused joe biden of sexually assaulting her when she worked in his senate office in 1993, has filed a report with the washington, d.c., police. although the statute of limitations has expired, reade said she f filed the repeport fr safety r reasons. over the weekend, "the newew yok times" published a pieiece in whwhich severaral witnesses corroborate e elementsts of re's account. "the new york k times" c came ur fire for deleting a a sentence n the article, which was also tweeted out, detailing p previos accusations against biden. "the new york times" originally wrote -- "we found no pattern of sexual

misconduct by biden, beyond hugs, kisses and touching that women previously said made them uncomfortable." "the times" then removed the phrase "beyond hugs, kisses and touching that wowomen previously said made them uncomfortable." and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and quarantine report. i'm amy goodman. when we come back, we speak with the lead author of the "new york "hes" explosive expose could have seen what was comiming." ststay with us.. ♪ [ [music break]k]

amy: andrea bocelli performing easter s sunday for aa live streamed cononcert called d musc for hopepe. ththe cathedral l is in the rern of itataly that has s been hardt

hit by the coronavirus pandemic. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the quarantine report. i'm amy goodman. as the united states surpasses the death toll of any country in the world, with more than 22,000 covid-19 deaths, we begin today's show looking at what led us to this point. in a mininute, we will be joined by the lead author of an explosive expose in "the new york times" headlined "he could have seen what was coming: behind trump's failure on the virus." but firsrst, we go to o this v o which is called "t"trump'ss coronavirus calendar" produced by the recount capturing the months of downplaying and denial for trump pivoted to coronavirus crisis mode. it starts on january 22. preses. trump: we have it totaly under control. it is one person coming in from china.a. we think we have it under

control. we pretty muchch shut it down coming in from china. in april, supposedly, it dies with the hotter weatather. when it gets warm, historically, it has been able to o kill the virus. people are getting better. 50 within a couple of days will be down clclose t to zero. it wilill disappear one day. like a miracle, it t will didisappear.r. not only the vaccines, b but tht ththeir piece. that is s another wordrd for cu. tatalking about very small l nus in the united states. our numbers are lower than just about anybody. a lot of good things are going to happen. we are responding with great speed and professionalism. it is going to go away. i don't take responsibility at all. we're going to be so good. it came up so suddenly. this is a pandemic. i felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic. all you did do was look at other countries. the coronavirus. you know that mostst of cororonavirus stop this is their new hoax.

we are 15 people in this massive country. because of the fact we went early, we could've had a lot more than that. we're doing great. our country is doing so great. amy: that montage of presesident was produced by the recount. this is how "the new york times" began its investigation into trump's failure to respond to the threat of the coronavirus. "any way you cut it, this is going to be bad," a senior medical adviser at the department of veterans affairs, dr. carter mecher, , wrote on e night of january 28 in an email to a group of public health experts scattered around the government and universities. he goes on, " "the projected sie of the outbreak already seems hard to believeve." a week after the first coronavirus case had been identified in the united states and sisix long weeks b before president trump finally took aggressive action to confront the danger the nation was facing -- a pandemic that is now forecast to take tens of thousands of american lives --

dr. mecher was urging the upper ranks of the nation's public health bureaucracy to wake up and prepare for the possibility of far more drastic action. "you guys made fun of me screaming to close the schools," he wrote to the group, which called itself "red dawn," an inside joke based on the 1984 movie about a band of americans trying to save the country after a foreign invasion. he goes on "now i'm screaming, , close the colleges and universities." his was hardly a lone voice. throughout january, as mr. trump repepeatedly played down the seriousness of the virus and focused on other issues, an array of figures inside his government -- - from top white house advisers to experts deep in the cabinet departments and intelligence agencies -- identified the threat, sounded alarms, and made clear the need for aggressive action." those are the first few paragraphs of this remarkable expose in "the new york times." for more on how trump was slow

to absorb the scale of the risk and to act accordingly, we are joined by the lead author of the expose, eric lipton, pulitzer prize winning journalist and investigative reporter for "the new york times." together with a number of other "times" reporters, he wrote this in-depth piece headlined "he could have seen what was coming: behind trump's failure on the virus." his follow-up piece is "the 'red dawn' emails: 8 key exchanges on the faltering response to the coronavirus." eric lipton, welcome back to democracy now! it is great to have you with us. so take us back to that time and then we will talalk about why ts is so significant today. reflected in the fact as we speak today, the u.s. has surpassed any country's in the world. take us back to those warnings, those first early warnings that scientists and members of his government were issuing. >> i think you need to go back way before january 2020 and go

it or not.6, believe you go back to the bush administration. during the bush a administratio, george w. bush, there were key advisors to president bush who realized it was only a matter of time before significant infectctious disease came toto e united states like it happen i n andtly after world war i was going to cause widespread illnesses and deaths. in the united states was not properly prepared for stop it was in 2006 that the united states designed a cop of pandemic p plan whichh has two essentiaial stages. the stages are c containment and mitigation. the firsrst stage e is containmt and what you attempt to contain ththe infection and prevent it from spreading. and you do that by preventing people who are ill frorom coming iffhe united states oror

somemeone is ill, you do contact tracacing andd would you identiy anyone that has had c contact wh that individual and you isolate them until they become better so you just -- just like cabin in china and the number of caseses began to e explode. that is containmnment. at a certain point, therere's community spread. once you have e communityy spre, need t to switch to mitigagation which you take steps -- there is no vaccine. another term for mitigation is nonpharmaceutical intervention, nti ththey call it. the biggest issue here was on day one in january of 2020, carter mecher, a doctor that works atat the veteranss adadministstration, was -- whene is talking about clolosing colleges andnd universrsities,'s and he isout npi already anticipating this will be necessary. thatat is the most important thg

that we have t to look back on n the united states right now is whwhen did they move from containment to mitigation and did they move soon enough? the answer is they did not soon move enough -- thehey did not me soon enough to mitigation. people are d dying moree thann d have been n necessarary if thehd shifted to m mitigation sooner. that is the e point that dr. carter mecher was making in 2020 as we need to be able to move to mititigation as soon ass they're sufficientnt evidence ththat cocommunity spread has started. if you want to understand the biggest failure that is consequential in the the united states, it was the slow list of which we moved to mitigation. amy: let's go to the so-called red dawn string of emails and which infectious disease specialist shared their concerns about the coronavirus very early on. actually, this one was march 13. the former adviser to presidents bush and obama, infectious disease specialist james lawler, think of the university of nebraska, wrote --

"cdc is really missing the mark by the time you have substantial transmission, it is too late. it is like ignoring the smoke detector and waiting for your whole house to be on fire before you call the fire department." if you can comment -- and go back even further. his own people, trump some azar,, like navarro, like were 70 alarms i in january. in fact, intelligence agencies were saying a pandemic is about to explode on the global scene. >> right. again, it is like the thing about mitigation or non-arms it will inmate -- nonpharmaceutical mitigation, it is simplistic. like you think we are so modern, so advance in our signs that we would have to resorort to things like closising of schools and businesses and social distancing

-- w which seems so crude becaue you woululd think k there woulde some treatment or some scientific method. unfortunately, the reality is with viruses w which the population has no resistance to and there is no o treatment f f, it i is going back to ththe pla. there really is no solution other than forced upon isolation. again, when dr. james lawler from the university of nebraska who was on the natioional secury council durining the bush administratition as well and participated in the drafting of that 2006 pandememic plalan andn becameme an advisor r to presidt preparations,mic what he wawas upset aboutut wite cdc was is the cdc in march questition the effecectiveness f shutting down schools in the united states. that may these panandemic expept so upset and angry because the fire alalarm was g going off. they have a very scientific method, , these pandemic

infectious diseaease doctors, a momenent when t the first death occucurs, from the date the first death occurs, you have a cerertain amount of timeo institute mitigation. if you don't d do that in thatat small window, t the number ofof deaths thahat are e going to ocr -- andnd it is basicically an equation. you can show how many deaths will happen if you don't pull the e switch i i mitigation by certain date. and they knew what that date was. it is not asas if you needed too national m mitigation all at on. you need to o do it by hotspot when he had the f first death in the commununity or c certain nur of infectious cases. then you need to decide, time to institute n npi's, social didistancing. the problem is why these doctors tell me when i interviewed them is thatt the governors to really have the power to do that, the governors -- it is hard for governor to get out in front when there is one yet in a state the size of washington state or

oregon or california when there's a single death or a handful of infections. it is very hard for the governor to tell the citizens of his or her state that we need to shut down the economy on our own. it needs a fedederal official lo come out andnd say, this musust happen. they don't have the power to do that. the president or the surgeon general for the head of the cdc, but they have the kind of platatform t to call for such a step. that is what had to happen. that is what hhs wanted the president to do in february and the prpresident was not willingo do that. so it sasat for seveveral weeks. it was up to the governors wanted to time to make the move. some did it early like california, nenew york did it later because they did not h hae the federal guidance and the move.g to say, now, ththe do it. amy: when you look at the numbers, the u.s. said it had

its first coronavirus case around the same time as south korea. now the u.s. has 50 times more cases, 100 times the fidelity is. look at the population of the u.s. in the world, for joint -- 4.25% o of the world's populati, less than 5% of the worlds population. 30% of the confirmed cases and 20% of the deaths in the world. let's go back to this red dawn emailed chain that you have exposed. in email, dr. james lawler, the infectious disease doctor wrote -- "great understatements in history: napoleon's retreat from moscow -- 'just a little scroll gone bad' pompeii -- 'a bit of a dust storm' -- hiroshima -- 'a bad summer heatwave' and wuhan -- 'just a bad flu season'." so these doctors were sounding the alarm but so were president trump's most trusted advisors. the head ofhat

health and human services had to say. talk about what navarro was saying, saying this was going to be serious. and talk about who was countering them stop it is not that president trump did not know. i mean, he no longer had a theemic task force within national security council, which would have been sounding the alarm. he had that disbanded in 2018. but he also had countering forces like mnuchin deeply concerned about the economy and shutting anything down -- in fact,, canceling a doctor's meeting, you write about, whehen one of the doctors said "we have to do something abouout this." >> i think what the context that this happened is, the impeachment in january in ththe senate is going on.n. as this thing is just getting underway in terms of its first infections coming to the u.s. not only that, but now it is an

election year in january 2020 and the president is really focused on his reelection and the single by far theme that is going to define his reelection campaign is look at the stock market, look at the incredible rise, the record stock market numbers, look at the economic growth in the united states and also in january, he was in the midst of finalizing negotiations with china and what they called phase one that was going to try to remove -- he was going to try to remove some of the tariffs and the trade war going on. that was going to be signed on jittery 15. -- january 15. the ability to reach an agreement with china was central. recovering with the farmers being happy because soybeans will be bought by china again. all of this was in the balance for trump. if he was fiercely considering takingng steps to shut down businesses, schools, force

social distancing urging governors to take such steps, he was going to essentially be undermining the economy that he was going to be the central theme of this campaign. that w was the last thining he wantnted to do. what h he did not realize was if they allow this infection to bloom in the united states and the potentially hunundreds ofof ththousandnds of deaths to occur because they never did mitigation, the economy would have been shut down by the force and evenrus itself more devastatiting ways the numr of deaths would have been in the hundreds of thousands. it goes back to the fact that this is an administration that yoyou had anan acting chief of f for over a year who had very little clout across the white house. you had lots of turnover among the top people in the various agencies, acting head of homeland security -- i mean, different dod secretaries, different national security advisers. you had lots of infighting among

these different advisors. you had a secretary of health and human services azar it was that respected by the president, whose voice did not carry very much weight in the white house. amy: they called him alarmist. >> you had peter navarro who was a trade adviser who was one of the earliest voices of concern. people said, oh, he is crazy, we don't want to listen to him in the white house. and then you have a lacking functional process of policymaking in which the chief of staff is supposed to be the person that considers all of these debates and brings to the president his recommendation. thisulvaney, since he had come as late last year in october it was a quid pro quo, was still on the outs that no one was really listening to him was about to be fired from his job -- which he was in the middle of this. yet this dysfunctional white house unable to make the right policy choice and bring into the president and then a president who was so fixated on his reelection that he wasn't in the

position to listen to people who are warning this was a pandemic of historic proportions that was coming at us and we have a small window of an opportunity? decisively to limit the number of deaths.s. februarylt was in late whwhen all of f his advisesers e all of hihis medical advisors fm health and human services on the cdc, veterans affair, concluded the u.s. needed to announce it was time to shift mitigation and social distancing, that the moment had come when it was up to the presisident to endorse ts and that is when he got angry when someone from the cdc said that was something t that was gogoing to have toto happen. and thee annououncement on thats put offff by several weeks. though several weeks where the difference between -- there are many people that will have died because of that delay, particularly in new york state, of mitigation. -- navarro to go to had also recommended the ban on china. when you talk about travel ban,

president trump's ears perk up. he did do the travel ban on china but it was, to say the least filled with loopholes. eventually, he would do europe. but at the same time, every time he says, look, i did that early, since he understood the significance of what was taking place early -- that was the beginning of, what, february? if he had started ramping up the testing and supply chain to ensure that there were ppe's, the personal protectctive equipment that doctors and nurses and the janitors in hospitalals so severely lack rit now, if it had started like it started in taiwan -- i did not even close the country there. but here this has led to this ababsolute catastrtrophe, the mt significant part of it is the massive loloss-of-lifefe. > a couple o of poinints you. phases,t was about two

containment and mitigation. relative to the containmentt phase, the president in late january announces the limitation on flights in china. as you say, there was a very problematic implementation in quite a number of ways. is were aong them proximally 400,000 people that came to the united d it's from china as my colleague reported recently, thahat from the time that we know the virus was spspreading in china to most rerecently. and 45,000 approximately came in the peperiod after the president limited flights. the problem w was it was not really in the world today, it is necessarily -- it is nearly impossible to stop movements of people entirely. you cannot ban american citizens from coming back to the u.s. american citizens and naturalized citizens were coming

into the u.s., tens of thousands of them come even after he adopted this limitation and they were actually in many cases doing sufficient testing of those people or requiring isolation of those people for two weeks to ensure they weren't infected. if you are really going to do a "travel ban," you needed to have mandatory quarantines. civil liberties issue. you needed to have mandatory or intense for those people and you needed to have sufficient testing to make sure they were not actually bringing the virus in. neither of those happen. those people were bringing in many cases of infections. the first stage, containment. containment was a fire. the second stage, even during containment you needed to be working on mitigation because you know it is going to spread. the question is, how much will you have? during containment, need to be ramping up your preparations, plan b, have the ppe's,

ventilators, hospitals, hospital personnel. what we learned was -- i was working on a story with my colleague who covers federal emergency management the new york times" and department of homeland security. it was march 17 and we asked the army corps of engineers, have you been given any assignments yet to help the united states respond to the pandemic? p point,, the army corps of engineers had not been given an assignment as of march 17, which was extraordinary. they had not shifted to plan b until way too late. amy: i want to thank you so much for being with us and and what dr. fauci. tapperay, jakee questioned dr. anthony fauci about your peace. >> do you think lives could have been saved if social distancing, physical distancing, stay-at-home measures had started the third week of

february that it mid-march? >> it is the what would have, what could have.e. it is s very difficult to go bak and say that. obviously, you could logically say that if you had a procecess that was ongoing and you started mitigation earlier, you could have saved lives. no one is going to deny that most of amy: that was dr. anthony fauci speaking yesterday cnn in tapper's show on response to president trump retweeted a tweet that ended with "fire fauci." eric lipton, thank you for being with us pulitzer prize winning , journalist and investigative reporter for "the new york times." when we come back, we go to detroit, the site of the first major u.s. study into whether or not the antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine could help prevent the spread of coronavirus. this coming after weeks of president trump promoting the drug despite warnings for medical experts george

stephanopoulos of abc news has just tested positive for the coronavirus. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: "amazing grace." andrea bocelli singing outside the duomo cathedral in milan . the cathedral and the region of italy that has been hardest hit by the coronavirus pandemic. this is democracy now!, i'm amy goodman. we had to detroit, where the

henry ford health system has launched the first major u.s. study into whether or not the anti-malarial drug hydroxychloroquine could help prevent the spread of coronavirus among health care workers, following weeks of president trump promoting the drug despite warnings from medical experts. the study was announced last week with detroit mayor mike duggan. it will test 3000 people to see if use of the drug can keep them from getting sick with covid-19. president trump has repeatedly urged americans to take hydroxychloroquine to treat covid-19 symptoms despite dr. anthony fauci and others warning there is still insufficient evidence for its effectiveness in treating the virus. this comes as a study in brazil involving chloroquine's effect on coronavirus patients was stopped after participants developed irregular heart ratess that increasased the risisk of a potentially fatal arrhythmia. a man in arizona died last month and his wife went in to critical condition after the couple took chloroquine to try to prevent a coronavirus infection. meanwhile, in the u.s., lupus patients have reported shortages of hydroxychloroquine following

trump's recent statements. this all comes as "the new york times" reports trump could personally profit if sales of hydroxychloroquine increase because he owns a small financial interest in a french company that makes the drug. and the only study that has been cited around hydroxychloroquine, a french study, the general recently pulled the study saying it was not well done. well, for more on hydroxychloroquine and also the covid-19, we're going to detroit to speak to dr. abdul el-sayed. he's a physician, epidemiologist, and the former director of the detroit health department. his new book is titled "healing politics: a doctor's journey into the heart of our political epidemic." metro detroit became one of t te nation's covid-19 hotspots. doctor, welcome back to democracy now! inhave this brazil study which they stopped because it

endangered the people who are being tested. at henry ford hospital in detroit, there is a study that is happening because part of -- the president has been pushing this so relentlelessly. can you talk about the significance of this study, who is involved, what kind of informed consesent there i is, d why you u actually support it?t? >> let me step back for a second.. the whole goal of science is to take what we want to have been out of t the pictuture and f foe a process that takes our vices out and asksks, what is the fact about whether or not a particularar medicatioion for treatment -- for treatment can do for a particular outcome?e? we ask about the safety and efficacy. we do o know therere's been a lf hype and the president and that is so problematic because we has that hydroxychloroquine some p potential side effects tt can be really dangerous. and number two, there are people who really need hydroxychloroquine. if you a all of a sudden createa

run on t the medication, they my not have it. this stutudy at henry ford recrt 3000 volunteers from the frontlines of health-care workers who are most at risk and randomize's to receiving either hydroxychloroquine or a placebo to ask whether or not those who had hydroxychloroquine were less likely to be infected coconsidering the same overall exposure. the reason why this is so important is because we don't know whether or not hydroxychloroquine is safe and effective for either the treatment of covid-19 or the prevention of covid-19. the only way to ask is run a randomized trial that controls for differences in the baseline probability of having gotten both the treatment and having had the outcome. this is an important piece of science and the only way we can know. take away the spin from the president, take away the spin from anywhere else, and just ask, does this work? is it safefe and effective?

lol we know is through a scientific process. thatwasn't there a study recently leaked out of two detroit hospipitals dealing with chloloroquine? i am unfamiliar with that literature. there haveve been a nunumber of studies ongoing. the truth h of the matter is, we do not have consistent e evidene from randomized controlled trials. that is why you see the presidident top advisor dr. anthony fauci pushing backk against president trump's -- amy: do you think president trump is pushing this because he has a financial stake in the companany that ultimately makes hydroxychloroquine? >> it is plausible. i have seen reporting to that end. the key point to me is, eight, this is reckless and you're responsible bebecause you have o put the scientific process first anand the scientific process has not borne out whether this is safe and effective. i hear folks argue that hydroxycychloroquinene is used n

folks with d diseases all the time. it should be safe. now w the question i is whetherr not it is effective. that i is not necessssarily tru. underlying biology can change the way ththe body processes certain medications. hydroxychloroquine may be processed freelyly in peopople suffering from covid-19. you talked about the results of the study that got stopped prematurely in b brazil. anand the frenchch version of te fda recently released concerning evidence suggesting it is plausible the baseline risk of withtythmia in partitions covid-19 may be higher than one would expect at baseline. amamy: and hear your president trumump, what we have to lose?e? when i speak to people with lupus, they are shocked he is pushing it so aggressively that folks should take it. they say because they take hydroxychloroquine for lupus, they have to be monitored very closely around hard issues,s, en around blindness all stop >> that is right. there is a lot of potential loss

there. and for thosose people who need hyhydroxychloroquiuine to keep r lupus symptoms down -- lupus is a really scary disease. even the name comes from "wowol" because it can attack at any time, anany place in t the body. these people needd this medicatition. there is a r run on that medicatition. tthat is a lot for them toto lo, too. this is not proven safe or effective. we need d good sciencece to o sw whether or not it is safe and effefective f for either r the trtreatmenent or preventition of covid-19. amy: dr. abdul el-sayed, your book is so signinificant, "heaeg politics," because in a way protected what we're seeing in this country right now with the racialist already around who lives and dies with covid-19 in your own city of detroit in new orleans and chicago disproportionately african-americans are dying. why? >> we talk a lot about the pathogen -- in this case, t the

coronavirus. this book is about an epidemic of insecurity that affects the host and is the function of the environment. as we ask questions about where covid-19 will go, it is following the well-woworn path toward society's most vulnerable. made vulnererable byby marginalization, systemem f lack of access to basasic resources includingg fundamentally, health care, in ththis moment t that leads peope vulnerable, increases t the possibility about the affection with covid-19 andnd deaeath bece of covid-19. we have to stand up anand say enough is enough. we're going to fix thesese vulnerababilitiess in n our socy so something like this doesn't happen in the future and even if itit does, we are preparered fo, that people won't hahave to sufr . amy: dr. abdul el-sayed, i would to bring into the conversation another guest as we turn to another major issue in the city of detroit facing amid the coronavirus pandemic, the water

shutoffs. despspite the city annououncinga moratorium on water shutoffs and a program to helelp thousandndsf residedents restore service last month, people in detroit are still reporting lack of access to water and even ongoing shadow. this is a video posted by detroit resident motisala ra on facebook two weeks ago. >> so the water department is offhere to turn the water at this home across the street. mind you, we're in the middle of a pandemic. they are herere to turn the wawr off. this is a family with an infant child. she has two children. amy: more than 140,000 homes in detroit have had their water shut off since 2014 according to local news outlet the bridge. as of march 31, the city had only restored water to 1000 of the 10,000 people who called to report issues with their water. we are now joined by community

pastor and activist reverend roslyn bouier. she is a front-line practitioner and executive director of brightmoor connection food pantry in detroit. you are very hard to get a hold up because you are so busy after getting water to people. can you explain for people in the rest of the country who might not understand, people had their water cut off cut even though the city said they won't be doing it anymore? there are many people who still don't have access to water when the first thing we are told in this pandemic is you must continually wash your hanands? >> yes, that is true. so here in detroit, the water is still not on. i need to open with that and say that folksks are still expeririencing water i insecuri. nono one still has watater. turnedy hasas historically off over 140,000. now w the city is, turnened on 0 households.

that is noththing in comparisono what i is needed.. i am seeing folkss every day whose wateter is o off. ,ust a as the video you showed folks are ststill being shut off from water. m made ato say, dr. sayed strong point when he said covivid-19 follows the path ofof insesecurity. and when your wawater is shut o, right, whehen you have no access to clean affordable water, then that is going to be the community that is hit the hardrdest. in the northwewest sectionon off detroit, briright more has the highghest population of water st off. it also has the highest relation of infant mortalality deaths s n to waterrnd out due insecurity.. we k know that folks normally yu would work every day -- when your water shut off, you look just likee you and i. people go to work and schohool. folks have the abilility to usea restroom and wash up and get

water all daday for eight to 10 hours while they're oututside of the hohome. the children have the abibilityo do that. but when your water is shut off and we are given the director to shelter in -- - which i need to thatwe should stop using word "shelter" because we are not using the word correctly.. "shelter" is defined as having a placace of safety and comfort ad protection. whwhen you don't have waterer o, that is not shehelter. it is n not shelter when childrn have to take their waste outside android and thee gararbage. it is not shelter when you don't have waterer in your home and te sanitation is not availablble because e city h has declared laundromats s were non-essssent. laundrdromats were closesed as . when we see the water shutoffs situation and we undnderstand tt contrarary to what you're hearig on t the news and i know the mar just recentltly did a statement

saying h he had turned everybody baback on, that maybybe there we only 50 folks left to turn back on, wewe know that is n not to e the truth. we really need the truth to get out. and the truth isis that folklkse still experiencing water insecurity. folks do not have water. people are still being shut off from water. amy: let me ask dr. abdul el-sayed, you are former director of the health department of detroit at the time the started. are you calling for the restoration of water to all the residents ofof detroit? >> absolutelely. i started at the city after t ts policy h had already starteded. it was one of the most frustrating policies to get to city leadership and the waterer department andnd say, the public health started the moment we figured out how to make e sure peoplele's water wawas clean. the fact we don't have clean water, as the reveverend rightly points out, , what does it meaeo tellll some to stay at home anad

wash their hanands with warmrm y water for 20 minutes when they don't have running water in their home? it is absurd even before the pandemic started. amy: i want to thank you both for being with us, dr. abdul el-sayed, physician, epidemiologist and the former directctor of the detroit health department. and reverend roslyn bouier is a community papastor, activist, executive director of brightmoor connection food pantry in detroit. that does it for o our broadcas. a very happy birthday to joe parker. we have another birthday to celebrate, a little one, we want the world.her into congratulations to his proud mama and papa, littlefield and daniel patterson. to see our conversation with amy littlefield about being pregnant during the time of the pandemic, go to. that does it for our show. democracy now! is working with as few people onsite as possible. the majority of our amazing team is working from home. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who

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hello and welcome to nhk "newsline." i'm yamamoto miki in tokyo. the world health organization has issue adnew and dire warning to countries eager to lift strict lock down measures aimed at containing the coronavirus. >> covid-19 spreads fast and we know that it's deadly, 10 times deadlier than the 2009 flu pandemic.