04/28/20 04/28/20 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from m new york city, the epicenenter ofof the pandemic,hs is democracy n now! >> it seems like it is actually doing the thing that an artist would want it to do, is how people feel free, especially when they are not feeling free. amy: today, a democracy now! tv/radio exclusive. an interview with the

world-renowned singer/songwriter fiona apple. she's just dropped her new album "fetch the bolt cutters." cuttersch the bolt i've been here too long fetch the bolt cutters i've been in here too long fetch the bolt cutters ♪ amy: fiona apple includes a land acknowledgmement of the indigens land where s she made her albumn the cover.r. she'll be joined native american activist eryn wise of seeding sovereignty, who talks about covid-19 in inindigenous communitities, especially the ououtbreak on navajoerriritory n new mexico. >> what is hahappening g right w isis what i feel is s a contntin ofof genocidide that existed sie the country's inception. amy: eryn wise and fiona apple

for the hour. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the quarantine report. i'm amy goodman. the u.s. death toll l from the covid-19 outbreak has topped 56,000 but more evidence is emergingng that the actual death toll is far higher. a new study by a team at the yale school of public health found there were over 15,00000 excess deathths in the uninited states during the month ofof mah and first days of april. the figure is nearly double what officials have been citing as the death toll from the pandemic during that period. worlrldwide, the known death tol has topped 21211,000, thougugh e trueue number is also expected o be much higher. this comes as "the washington post" is reporting intelligence agencies warned president trump about the threat of the coronavirus in over a dozen classified briefings in january and february.

the warnings came in the president's daily brief, which trump regularly skips reading, according to "the posts's" sources. despite the warnings, the president continues to downplay the severity of the threat into february. on monday, president trump was questioned about the fallout from his d dangerous suggeststin last week that injnjecting disinfectants might t help patients sick with covid-19. >> governor larry hogan specifically said they have seen a spike in people using disinfectants after your comments last week. i know you said they were sarcastic -- delight pres. trump: i can't imagine why. >> do you take in responsibility? pres. trump: no, i don't. amy: texas govovernor gregbbbbot said the state will start reopenining business, , includig restaurants, movie theaters, and shops starting but that ththey n friday onlnly fill up to 2 25% f their licecensed capacity for r. cases are ststill on the rise in texas.

ththe state has reported 2 25,00 cases and around 700 known deaths. ohio said manufacturing would be allowed to resume and offices willll start to reopen next wee. meanwhile, as reported coronavivirus deaths in califora topped 1700 monday, california governor gavin newsom condemned residents who flocked to beaches over the weekend amid a heat wave in southern california. >> we are just a few weeks away, not months away, from making measurable and meaningful changes to our stay-at-homee order. that is a very optimistic point to emphasize. however, that is driven by data. it is driven by behavior. as we change our behavior, we can impact the science and the data. this virus does not take the weekends. this virus does not go home because it is a beautiful sunny day. amy: presidedent trump announced he will give the in-personn commencement address at west popoint, forcing 1000 cadets who

hahave been told to leleave cams inin m march to rereturn for graduatition. west point officials say they were unaware of trump's plan to go aheadad with the address untl he menentioned i it earlieier ts momonth at a news briefing. the new w york statate board o f electionons has canceled the democratic preresidential primay scheduled for june 23 afterr removing b bernie sanders fromoe ballot. while other states have postponed primaries due to the coronavirus outbreak, new york becomes the fifirst to outright cancel a primary. the bernie sanders campaign blasted the decision, calling it a "blow to american democracy." while sanders suspended his presidential campaign earlier this month, he decided to remain on the ballot in upcoming primaries in an attempt to accrue more delegates to influence the democratic party's platform at the party's convention. a law signed earlier this year by new york governor andrew

cuomo gave the new york state board of elections the power to remove candidates who have suspended their campaigns from the ballot. senior sanders advisor jeff weaver said -- "just last week, vice president biden warned the american people that president trump could use the current crisis as an excuse to postpone the november election. well, he now has a precedent thanks to new york state." primaries s will still be heheln new york for other races on june 23 but turnout is expected to be much lower. ththe united nationsns is urgine united states to release imprisoned immigrants as coronavirus cases continueue to mount in overcrowdwded and unsanitary immigration jails across the country. as of last week, confirmed cases in immigration and customs enforcement prisons neared 300. in other immigration news, staff at thehe privately-owned otay ma detention centnter near san dieo did not allow a group of activists to deliver nearly 1000 face masks to immigrants imprisoned inside. the group was accompanied friday by san d diego assemblblywoman

lorena gonzalez who said -- "these are human beings. we don't have mass deaths, but we know where this is going." in legal news, the supreme court declined to temporarily halt the trump administration's so-called public charge rule, which allows the government to deny green cards to immigrants who use public benefits such as food stamps. earlier this month, connecticut, vermont, and new york state and city asked the justices to reverse the rule in light of the economic devastation brought on by the pandemic, which has hit immigrant communities especially hard. as the total number of confirmed covid-19 c cases in n the united states nears 1 million, more evidence is indicating far more of the population has been affected while not showing any symptoms. reuters reports a study of prisoners in arkansas, north carolina, ohio, and virginia found 96% of prisoners in the states' prison systems who tested positive for coronavirus

did not show any symptoms. in new york, two morore prisones at fishkhkill correctitional facilityty have died o of covid. the fishkill and sing sing prisons account for at least seven of the nine covid-19 related deaths of incarcerated people in new york. in california, the lompoc federal correctional complex -- which has one of the largest coronavirus outbreaks in u.s. prisons -- will reportedly reinstate phone contact between prisoners and loved ones after sustained pressure from families of inmates. family members gathered outside the prison saturday claiming they had not been able to communicate with your loved ones, some for up to two weeks. as germany relaxes its coronavirus lockdown, a new law has gone into effect requiring residents to wear face masks in many public spaces across most of the country. those violating the new rule, as well as businesses that do not enforce the law, can be subject to fines. british prime minister boris johnson, who returned to work this week after his own battle

with the coronavirus, said it was premature to lift the nation's lockdown. >> i refuse to throw away all of the effort and the sacrifice of the british people and to risk a second major outbreak and huge in the overwhelming of the nhs. amy: the u.k. has recorded over 21,000 deaths so far. in other news from britain, a judge has postponed extradition hearings for wikileaks founder julian assange, which were set to go ahead next month, due to the coronavirus lockdown. earlier this month, assange's fiancee made an urgent plea for his release from belmarsh prison amididst the panandemic. sweden's s ambassador the united states has said that stockholm could reach herd immunity sometime in may. in contrast to many of its europeanan neighbors, , sweden s imposed much more relaxed restrictions, keeping most businesses open. over 2000 people have died of covid-19 in sweden -- a

significantltly higher death tol in relatation to its p populatin than neighboring denmark and nonorway, which h imposed strirt lockdodos. the world health organization has warnrned there is no evidene that patatnts who hahave recoved from covid-19 are immune to reinfection. the world health o organizations warning that, as health systems become overwhelmed with combating the coronavirus, people are at heightened risk of succumbing to other diseases and health conditions, particularly children. many poorerer countrtries have reported shortages in vaccines and essential medicines amid the pandemic. the world health organization's director general said african nations are increasingly vulnerable as cases across the continent mount. >> a new modeling analysis published last week estimates the potential disruption to services from covid-19 in 41 countries in sub-saharan africa.

in the worst-case scenario, the number of deaths could double. amy: with over 4500 confirmed cases, south africa is one of the hardest hit nations on the continent. nobel peace laureate archbishop desmond tutu said the coronavirus has brought enduring racial inequalities into stark relief. he said "the virus has done the country a ghastly favor by exposing the unsustainable foundations on which it is built that mususbe urgentltly fixed," he said d a statemement. in related news, over 200 docts s fromuba ararrived in south africa to help fight the monday outbreak. in guatetemala, nearly 100 immigrants recently deported from the united states have tested positive for covid-19, making up some 20% of guatemala's coronavirus cases. the guatemalan government indefinitely suspended deportation flights from the u.s., saying it will only allow them to resume if the e u.s. improves its screening protocols.

in el salvador, president nayib bukele has authorized police and military to use lethal force against gang members following a spate of homicides over recent days linked to gang activity. authorities say more than 50 people were murdered over the weekend after imprisoned gang members allegedly ordered the killings from behind bars. shocking images, many of which were shared on bukele's own twitter account, show prisoners crammed together with only some wearing face masks as prisons enforce a round-the-clock lockdown on what they say are gang members, which includes putting metal sheets over prison bars and housing inmates from rival gangs in the same, overcrowded cells. coronavirus cases have been mounting across prisons in latin america, as human rights advocates and public health experts call on authorities to release nonviolent prisoners in . chile, dozens of protesters were arrested monday in the capital santiago as anti-government demonstrations continue in

defiance of lockdown orders. demonstrators are calling for a constitutional reform. a referendum on a new chilean constitution was meant to take place sunday, but was postponed amid due to the coronavirus lockdown. police fired tear gas and sprayed protesters with water cannons. this is one of the protesters. >> it is the anniversary of the most repudiated, thehe most hahd organization by great majority of chileans, which is -- in a few words, rapists, mutilators, torturous. i hope someday they will disappear. amy: in pakistan, dozensf doctors and nurses have begun a hunger strike to demand adequate personal protective equipment while treating coronavirus patients. more than 150 medical workers have become infected by the coronavirus, and several have died, including a 26-year-old doctor who'd just begun his medical career. last month, police arrested more than 50 protesting doctors. covid-19 cases are on the rise

in pakistan, with close to 14,000 confirmed cases and nearly 300 known deaths, though the true numbers are believed to be much higher. in new zealand, prime minister jacinda ardern said the country would slowly start to reopen after strict lockdown measures had helped eliminate community spread of covid-19. only one case was reported monday. overall, over 1100 cases and 19 deaths have been confirmed in new zealand. >> we must hunt down the last few cases of the virus. this is like looking for a needle in a haystack. and we need your help to finish the job we have started. communityoo widespread transmission in n new zealaland. we have won the battle,e, but we must remain vigilant we want to keep it that way. amy: activists in washington, d.c., formed car and bike caravans in a show of support

monday for essential workers, and to call out the disproportionate toll of the pandemic on black and brown communities. the actions, which were organized several local groups including black lives matters d.c. and shutdown d.c., also called for decarceration and environmental justice. more actions are set to take place throughout the week in the lelead-up toto may 1st. new developments in the sexual assault t allegatition against e biden broke monday as two more people who knew tara reade in the 1990's have come forward to corroborate details of her account. rich mchugh reports s in busines insideder that a forormer neighr former biden staffer t tara reae said the paiair discussed d the assault in detail, in which then-senator biden a allegedly pushed tara reade up against a wall andnd digitally penetrated her. the alleged assault happened in 1993 when reade was working as a staffer inin his office. a formerer colleague who also kw reade in the mid 199990's said e had d spoken of being sexually harassed by her former boss in washington, d.c. the latest news broke as joe biden gained two significant endorsements monday from house

speaker r nancy pelosi and washington congressmember pramila jayapal, who co-chairs the congressional progressive caucus. the biden campmpaign has denied tara's allegations. aa top er doctor who had treated coronavirus patients in n new yk died by suicide sunday. dr. lorna breen was the medical director of the emergency department at new york-presbyterian allen hospital but had been staying with her family in virginia at the time of her death. she herself had contracted the coronavirus and had to leave her position to recover from the illness. her family blames her job for her death. her father said in an interview she has described harrowing scenes from the hospital. "make sure she's praised as a hero, because she was," her father, dr. philip breen, said in an interview, adding "she's a casualty just as much asas anyoe else who has died.d." and in virginia, jerry givens, a prominent anti-death penalty activist, who was once also the state's chief executioner, has died from complications related

to covid-19. givens served as virginia's chief executioner for over 25 years. but after serving his own prison sentence, he became an outspoken abolitionist, speaking out against capital punishment and contacting politicians in an attempt to halt executions. he was 67 years old. and those are some of the headlines. this is s democracacy now!, democracynow.org, the quarantine report. i'm amy goodman. >> ♪ fetch the bolt cutters i've been in here too long fetch the bolt cutters i've been in here too long fetch the bolt cutters i've been in here too long fetch the bolt cutters ♪ amy: "fetch the bolt cutters." that's the name of the new critically acclaimed album just

released by singer-songwriter fiona apple into a world under lockdown. fiona apple's fifth album was released months early due to the unprecedented coronavirus pandemic. the remarkable album has become somewhat of a soundtrack of our time, with emotionally wrought songs including "ladies," "relay," and of course, "fetch the bolt cutters." music website pitchfork gave the album a 10 out of 10 score -- its first perfect rating in nearly a decade. the record also includes a land acknowledgement. the bottom of the track list on the back of fiona apple's album cover reads -- "made on unceded tongva, mescalero apache, and suma territories." well, fiona apple joined us last on f friday from her home in los angeles, along with native american activist eryn wise. eryn wise is an organizer with seeding sovereignty, an indigenous-led collective fiona apple supports. seeding soverereignty has launcd a rapid response initiative to help indigenous communities

affected by the outbreak. mexico, navajo nation has the third highest t infection re in the couountry following only new york andnd new jersey. i began our conversation by askingng fiona about h her new album. congratulations on this album. did you expect anything like the global acclaim that you're getting right now upon this release? >> no, i did not. it is a little bit uncomfortable, to be hononest. i just wanted to release a record at a time when i thought it would havee a chahance to be listeneded to. -- it seems like it is actually doing the thing that any artist would want there are to do, which is how people feel free, especially whenn they are not feeling free. amy: what could be a better name and d title for yoyour album and song that "fetch the bolt

cutters" for our time? tatalk about h how you came upuh that. >> well, i was at home asas i usually am and my housemate and i were watching the show "the fall" starrining g gillian anden and eating dinner and watching a television show and there is a scene where she's going to rescue a young girl from where she thought was locked in a store. there was supposed to wait for backup. she throws away the london says "fetch the bolt cutters." i shut it from the couch and i said, this is what my records when to be called. i wrote it on the chalkboard and i got a tattoo. amy:, with thehe title before ee song.. >> oh, yes. of theng was the second last on that i wrote for the record. it was the last thing i had on my mind with the culminatation f

everything going on n in my lif. - -- then w we got on lockdown. album "fetch the bolt cutters" includes a land acacknowledgment. you described it as sort of last song of the alalbum. talklk abobout with this land acknowleledgment means to you. i have been talking about doing land acknowledgment. she wanted to start this object, i ththink is amazingly smart and woululd be so nutrititious for americanans is that when artists go on tour, they acknowledge the land that they're performing on. ereryn correct me if i'm wrong, but educate people e about thee tribes that lived on the territories so that we can keep aware of where we a are and what the e story is. now, the fact we cannot t tour w

unl probablbly 2022 maybe or late 2021 means thahat i can't o that on the road, so eryn brbrought this up t to me when e alalbum was fifinished and s sh, i wonder if you would considerer doining this on the a album? i just thought, a absolutely. of course. it makes total sense. yes, i would love to do thatat. i dodo think putting thahat on y send m as opposed to just something like "i support this giving -- the act of it keeps them close to me in my life so it t is not just a a one time that i'm saying, oh, i'm intoto this cause rightt now ant is kind of interesting and then i will be done with it. this way i i am tieded into it h something that i i made, now has more meaning becausese it is attacheded to that. it is a way for me to also makae a life commitment to be listenening and to be able to oa

friend in whatever best way i can. theseo you say "made on territories. where are you? >> we did go to t texas for a little bit. we h had gone and dodone a sessn on a ranch i in texas. thegave eryn the addddresses of mixing studidio, my house, and e ranch in texas and she took those addresses and tell me what the rereal addresses of f those places arere, which is thehese territories. it is very imporortant to keep n saying it because it is not i in everybody's day-to-d-day life. peopople not thinking about this evevery day, and they should be. we're not living on land that was ceded d to us. nonot only thahat, i'm sorry ifm getting ahead of myself, but

once i was d done with this alb, -- i'mm not interested in myself so much anymorore, you know? starting to readhe news s a lot more. i am ashamed of how uneducated i am but i don't want to let that shame keep me from beieing in conversations, to keep me from king queststions, to keep meme frfrom being useful to people. because it is thatat shame o or guililt t that sometimes keeps people frorom wanting to e enter coconversation. relevanthihis is always and it always will be entities to be -- we cononstantly neededo be reminded d of a. amy: singer/songwriter fiona apple just released her latest albumum "fetch the bolt cutterers." we wilill be back with fillon ad native activists eryn wise in a moment. ♪ [music break]

"relay" by fiona apple, off her new critically acclaimed album "fetch the bolt cutters." the album includes a land acknowledgment -- "made on unceded tongva, mescalero apache, and suma territories."

this is democracy y now!, democracynow.org, the quaranante report. i'm amy goodman. as we cocontinue our interview with fiona apple, who joined us for the interview along with eryn wise, a member of the jicarilla a apache nation and laguna pueueblo people.. she joineded us from phoenix, arizona. eryn is an organizer with seeding sovereignty, an indigenous-led collective that fiona apple supports. seeding sovereignty has launched a rapid response initiative to helplp indigenous s communitiess affecteded by the spread of covid-19 in n new mexico. the navajo nation the third harris coronavirus i infection rate in ththe u.s.,., followingy new york andnd new jersey. at least 59 people have dieded from the virus. in new mexico, native americans make up more than one third of the state's coronavirus cases but only 10% of the population. navajojo nation president jonatn nez had to quauarantine afterr exposure to covid-19 earlier this month. he s said of the unfolding catastrophe -- "we are united states citizens

but we're not treated like that. wewe once again haveve been forgotten by our own government." i spoke with eryn wise about the spread of covid-19 in navajo nation. i also talked -- continued with fiona apple. bubut i began by asking her to telllls about ththe land she was joining us from. an unceded territory in phoenix, arizonana, right no. on: you are writing a manual land acknowledgment. for people who are hearing this for the first time, fiona apple does a land acknowledgment on her album. they may not even know what that is or when people stand up there giving a talk making that kind of land acknowledgment first. exexplain what this is all about and explalain your owown herita, eryn. >> surure. a apache.illala

the work that seeding sovereignty is doing right now .s so important in terms of land and wilder acknowledgment, formal recognitions of all original peoples and defenders and protectors of territories that have been unseated by indigenous peoples. basically, what we're asking is for folks to do the first step, first in a series of many steps, toward reclaiming land, reclaiming culture, and returning land eventually but having folks be aware of the territories that they were on, learn the histories of the original peoples and to the names of these life was like the rivers and also different creeks and or oceans and realizing are people that recognize all of these lands and waters, or than human can buy original place names, by original names given to them by the creator and encouraging people t to because

landnd acknowledgment inin publc settings and thus wateter knowledge meant -- amy: if you can talk about how you see land a acknowledgment ts >> sure.step? land acknowlededgment, there's a work that neneeds to be d done. indigegenous committees are exprpressing huge inequities.. gogoing to a place and saying ts is u unceded territory is one thing but ththis is s an ongoiog effort. you c can do the firstttep, cann educatee yourself,f, but thehers work that neneeds to be done and how can he help the people whose territory youou benefit from if you arare a business operatator? what are you doing in your business to ensure reciprocity of theheommunity''s you are benefiting from? whwhat is it you'u're doingn yor own personal l life to ensure folks are e able to reclaim ther eventually see our territories returned to us?

that is the ultimate goal. amy: if you can talk about how the coronavirus pandemic now is infecting and affecting indigenonous communities? you right now are in phoenix, arizona. how it is affecting people in arizona, particularly the navajo, people in new mexico -- which is really called the epicenter of the coronavirus pandemic in n indigenous terrrritory. >> it isis, yes. right now i want to hohonor that there has been 49 d deaths onone nava natatio i i want to liftft my hands the folks who aree navigating burirs and things that thehey need to o withthout their famililies andd acaccess to prorotocol. i also wantoto bri t to light there are over 1200 cases on the navajo nation. folks are also not looking at the fact that the surrounding pueblos nearby the navajo nation in new mexico specifically are also being heavily impacted.

we are seeing upwards of 50 cases on some pueblos and limited, limited access most what is happening right now is what i feel a continuation of genocide against the gin -- indigenous peoples of this country. amy: explain where the navajo nation's fans. >> sure. the navajo nation spends across four corners most of it exists a bit in colorado, utah, aririzon, anand new mexico. amy: and so you are saying about the outbreak therend how it t is being dealt with. >> theheutbreak inin navajo natn isis similar and notot just in navajo nation,n, but new mexicon general, simimilar to thee wayse gogovernmement has responded toa lot of thinings in indigenous commununities. folks s are showing up with supplies that are not adequate for the needs of theommunitieses -- if supplies are showing up at all. there are not any doctors being afforded to the areas greater than some community members that have gotten together and decided

they're going to go to the navajo nation to support. there are some federal mobile testing squads that have shown up. but in general, we are seeing a huge disparity between the support that is being offered to non-people of the global majority in the united states, ,o to say nonpeople of color and realizing that it is not just indigenous communities that are being impacted but all folks of color a across the e united states, , or sing across s navao nation and t the pueblblos of nw mexico that there are fololks basicalllly being treateted as f they are just fodder for this government''ss r response to the coronavirus. they are b being sacrificed d ad often prpredeceased b by the headlines s that are being s sen news outletsts. i keep seeing headadlineshat say "this conanavirus coululd wipe t entire tribebes, entitire indigs nations."" i don't think folks realize

ththere are over 570 recognizedd nations anand also a o of thesee unrecognized nations t that exi. it is not like anybody is going to wipe us out in one fell swoop stuff they tried that already and it did not work. amy: can you talk ababout whwhat seeding sovevereignty is andnd t it is u'u're trying toto do? seeding sovevereignty isis an organinization that is in women-led. thee workrk we're doing rightht now o address covid is a rev response program. basically we have a mask drive where we have actually raised -95 gradepurchase n masks. we purchased 10,000 of those. your personally death purchasing another -- we are purchasing another 12,000 masks that we will be provided to the navajo nation and indigenous communities in new mexico. additionally we have a petition asking for folks to put pressure

on the government to demanand ty provide pepeditious support t to indigenous communities, not just in new mexico, but across lklks thatat are being treatated as sacrifice zones for this pandemic. about theave talked theme of genocide. i wanted to ask you to address the way the legacies of colonization, colonialism erasure, have set the stage, as you have described it, for the response to what is happening in indidian country rightowow. a a treatyso we signed is over 15150 yeaears ago, manyf the tribes that are currently being impacted, ensuring we woululd have accccess to lilifer cultures, a and general health. i i think folks s don't realizet this pandemic and the fact that there'e's so o little a access o littlele support beieing provido indigenous communitities, black

communities, i really do feel like it is a continuation of the colonial project to kill the indian and save the man. i think that folks are really looking at people of the global majority, folks of color in this country that are being hit by coronavirus, and they are really ining the health inequities the attic -- education inequities and the lack of access and they say, well that is too much to take on like we don't have to look at another broken thing that we have to fix even if we broke it. that realllly breaks my heart. i think they don't realize that this mutual aid that we are engaging in, i don't think they understand it is in indigenous practice, people of the majority, to o offer community support without demandnd for reciciprocity. i thinink folks also o don't ree thatat mutual l aid existiting a time of colonialism andd contininued genocide really loos like brown a and black folks coming t together and s saying,, we still don't want to die. we haven't wanted to for the last 500 years, and how can i support you in your community and later on you support hours

so that we show each other that we have this continued legacy of support that we're building bridges between our communities no matter how much they try to settle us. a lot of us are rejecting the notion that we are people worth killing and that we are people not worth listening to her that her lives do not matter as those of the 1% in this community or the folks with accccess. i think o one of ththe biggest ththings with h the work that fa has done in s support of f feedg soverereignty is to shohow folks that y you can have a lilimited platform, could have a huge platformrm, but regardless, you can t take the e time to o suppt peop inn need just because you want to and becaususe you realie there a a lack of access and you haveve that point t that cae the connection. amy: i want toto go backck to fa apple, to this whole theme of acknowledgment. can you expand on it to talk about how scenes of acknowledgment are expressed througughout your new album feth

the bolt cutters"? >> it is a cocompletely differet subjbject because it is onone woman's life, but it is the same isng as with anything that -- acknowledgment isis the first step in a seseries of a lot t of steps toward healing anynything. the first step is admitting you have a problem. -- they always say the first step is a meeting ourur proboblem. for me, yes, ththat is just the first step and it is so easy too do. it is s so easy to acknowlwledg, to acknowledge these thihings. but we forget or it is an afterthought or we have guilt or shame so we just don't want to think about it or talk about it. n inin my case, we feel stupid, uneducated, ignorant. thatis something else -- is the first thing i need to acknowledge before i can

actually be any kind of friend way, help in any kind of to make a connection. before i can do that, i have to admit that i am ignorant. i am an ignorant white person and i have lived a whole life privileged and i have no idea what it is like to not be me. il i can -- the best thing can do right now is to say, i've got time and faith and money a d please, just talalk to me and lt me know -- fill my head. i am a b blank slate. so clear ino make all of your art and music, your experiences and what you've learned fromom them. if you could talk about your song "relay" which begins with the line "evil is a relay sport when the one you burn turns to pass the torch." yoyou wrote that y years ago, 't you? >> yeah, i wrote it whwhen i was about 1515, actually.

amy: talk about what it meant to you u then. assaulted i had beenn when i was about 12 or 13. guiltately questions of and retetaliation and a acceptae and peace and war -- all of these things came -- it was all living in me all of a sudden beeeen -- i did n not know how to wrap my head arounud somebody wanting to hurt me or anyone like that. i did not understand it. the first thing i was thinking was, well, sometething must hahe been done to him. was just my thought about him, that someone had burned him and he saw somebody -- me -- looked vulnerable enough to burn, he thought thatt would take the burn off of him, but it doesn't. it just passes it on. he keeps it and i got it, totoo. andhat was my thought then

that was a big subject. years awareuple of of internet culture, anand my whole thoughts about that thing became very small and very personal and very petty. but it is all the same thing. it is just people feeling bad about something or feeling embarrassed or feeling weak and jujust trying to take that out n someone e else. feeling like someonone else made you feel weak or r -- you take t out on someone else. it happens all the time. it doesn't help anybody. amy: let's go to fiona apple's google for her --" for her." >> ♪ amy: from fetch the bolt

cutters." you said d you wrote it in partt ababout the brett kavananaugh suprpreme court t hearings? >> a after watching g the hearis -- all of the things -- women and -- victims of sexual assaulult, sexual abuse e will l understand this. there are some men that are just never going g to understanand. trump. gh, these guys bring it all back. so sitting there and watching that man and knowing he was going to be on the supreme court just hurts me down to the marrow. on that subject, it makes me feel like -- sing that guy's toer and his entitlement make decisions on behalf of americans, based likely --

basically, knowing he has violated somebody or believing he had violated a buddy, does make me think about the other issue that we're talking about here today. people who are in power that are basically -- the sentence of people that assaulted to ththeir own familieses. i cannot imagine what itit is le to be an indndigenous personon t now and to watch everybody else living and going about evererything and talkiking about problems g going on anand just ignoring you. just not even looking at you. amy: you are writing this now in oo movement. the metto are you hoping that this will make women feel more powowerful and responding and joining together with other women, which is really a theme in a lot of your songs right now, for , the power ofdies your relationship." >> i am hoping that it will help

-- if not power, they just stepping away from weakness. especicially -- itit is us on tt hopefully wiwill give [indisiscernible] ablbleple who may not be to voice what is happpping to them. it ds s happen a lot. they can't set out loud. i think maybe this song ththey n sing along witith that o one lie andndel it and believe i it know their truth, no matter what anybody else says. i had done so mamany versions of that song just singing by myself and, literally, just shaking going toto preress record. i hadd donee so many versions by myself and one day i sang that line and itt sank into me.

i finally f felt the anger thahi never felt the men who asassauld meme when i was a child.d. i sing that line over and over again until i really felt it. when i felt it, i finally felt anger and it was an amazingg ththing. i hope -- you need to feel your anger in order to get past it. i'm hoping we will do the same for other women. i also felt like i needed other voices witith me. i i felt like i w was by mysyse. so i just decided, well, i'm the only one here so i will just create a whole village of me,nds, of women t to support to s sing along with me. did, andat is what i it worked. amy: fiona apple. her critically acclaimed new album "fetch the bolt cutters." when we come back in this broadcasast exclusive, fiona tas about ththe power of m music and eryn wise talklks about murdere, missing indigenous women and

girls. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: "ladies" by fiona apple. this is democracy now!,, democracynow.org, the quarantine report. i'm amy goodman. as we continue our discussion with singer-songwriter fiona apple and eryn wisisof the indigenous group s seeding sovevereignty. they joined us just after t the release of fiona apple's new album "fetetch the bolt cutters" let's talk about cosmonauts. this is a song that seems to have anticipated to say the aboutthe current moment

two people who are going to live together forevever. you say yoyou imagine them in a tinyny vessel l in spapace. talk about the writingng of "cosmonauts." had asked me to do a song for the movie and hee wanted it to be a song about love thisthat yoyou person and wanant to be witith m forever. i could not relate to thatat feeling. i have been n in love and wanted to have e people in my life forever, but n never wand to be in a marriagage was so mud forever. i couldn't wrap my y head around it but i tried. i just thought of it as, well, ife e are stucuck -- but t being stuck together, b being togetet, stining together withth some off foforever isis just a matter o f never leavingng, right t or wro. so if you're just stuck with somebodydy, imaginene how desha

could not imimagine how that w d be with me because t the first liline says allll for me and it relationship at certain points, look a at somebody andnd you'ree like, i'm dodone. i'm angry now. i just looked at your pace and i am that. so how could we possibly spend a whole lifetime with somebody? that was my thoughts then.n. that is why with a song like that.. and call your face ignite a fuse to my patients." let's play a little bit of it. >> just do me ♪ you and i will feel like a couple of cosmonauts ♪ amy: that is from fiona apple's phenomenal new album just out after many years "fetch the bolt cutters." as we begin to wrap up, and when

to ask about the power of music in society, especially todayay. you're known for writing so ingeniously creatively about love and loss. to say the least in this time of the pandemic, people are dealing with enormous loss. what was it like to be writing your music now? and also, why you pushed for it to be released now as millions of people are being told to shelter at home, if they're lucky enenough to have h homes - there's a lot in there, but if you could talk about it all? michaelaa,, musician, she texted me a few weeks ago saying, you have to relelease yr record. you haveve to release it. peoplele really need music now. she is way more in touch witith what is gogoing on than i am. i was like, no, that does makake sense. stuffff a it's ok,

moususe soon. i wasn't thinking about it ththt much. then i i got a rollout schedulue proposing all l the different thinings that would go on now io the release of the record, which would be october. itit have first on comoming outn june. that just set me off on a t two day text tiradade makining my ce for putting out ththe album now, which -- i know it takes a lot more than just pushing a a butt, but push a button and the album is done and it can go out digitally. people can enjoyoy it. it was allll a matter of logic. ifif we waited, i would h have n lost in n the mix. i wanted to be heard. i don't really like to open my now in a room andd speakaknlessi think you're going to listen. if i don't think you're going to listen, i'i'm just going to walk away. i wanted to puput it out whwheni thought it would h have the best ance. i puput a lot of work k into it. -- i knewew it would

help people who were fans o of n because they're just waiting around for so many yeaears. ohoh, yeah, new record is here. that is something g for meme too for a a uple of dadays. it is actually making people feel free and happy and if i can make e people feel a alive or feel her anger r feel creative, that is the best thing that i could hope for. that and also trying to tie my songs in with things that i believe in. i just want to say something off .he top of my record because i did some s studying and i have wereyay i wish there indigeusus folks teachching american hisistory. i wawas never r taught that for saidnce, thomomas jefferson -- e exchange land [indiscernib]

they will b become [indiscernib] it is so b boldly evevil. see the goodlglad to -- it was planned. it is like the trail of tears is a hundred years in the making. he wrote about removing all indigenous folks 15 years before he became president. i don't know anything about american history. i did not pay attention in class and now i'm kind of glad i didn't because i don't think we are being taught everything. that is what he was thinking? that is who that guy was. so many of our american heroes arare l like that. [indiscernible]

genocide.sically for i always thought he was for women's suffrage. that he was a good guy. but, no. it is hard t to look at how w wt these been i into positions of power and how they have shaped our whole amamerican histotory,t be awaware until i am 42 that ty were for genocide, for christ eight. amy: let''s get the lalast wordo ereryn wise as fiona talks about the information she d did not learn going to school, what it means to reframe american story frfr a nativee perspective.e. > that is such a big question and i don'n't think i couould d any y justicasas a single e pern and i don't speak on behalf of my t tribe or anybodody but mys, but i wowould say that t the mot wewe are in right now is a timef learnining. i think a lot o of folks are feelg g like they have t to be

producing, have to b be creatin. fiona has done that beauautiful. but for r folks who are at t ho, to be doing the same ththing. you could bebe teaching yoursesf online. you can be reading, reaching out to indigenous educators. you can be creating systems in which you plan to go back into school as teachers and teach folks about indigenous histories. be can also make plans to teaching in your schools. i think that is entirely important. i think one of the things i wanted to bring attention to is that fiona unwittingly touches so many different subjects that are impacting indigenous communities today in her album which addresses rape and sexual assault, also addressing violence against indigenous women and the murdered missing indigenous women here who are overlooked. we're also looking at the violence against women and girls in g general, not just indigenos cocommunities,s, but the facacte are onone in three women will be here inin our l letime

ththe so-called united states. i think t that is a legacy y th neededs to be e looked at. i think ththe fact thahat fiona touches s on all of these plants growing, spirit,t, back to herself,f, and i t told her whee was talking to remind me of the three sisters planting and h how wewe need to be in kinship, be n sisterhood with one another to continue to build the communities we want to see. i also thinknk "ladies" w when s listening to i it, i was listeng to it withth a bunch of queer gy men on the phone andnd all of tm felt like that song was for them, too. i also want to honor the + folksks, thetqia trans-folks thatat exist i in or commununity and everybody that fionona is calling i into be wih this album and also with her work. i think it is i incredibly imimperative t to harnessss ands the dignified rage, to hold i it in yououhand and be ablele to acknknowledge these e are alllle things that hurt me but i i'm

going to put them down and fifigure out how to transform tt painin into sosomebody -- sometg thatat can heal people that have been hurt. and i do feel like in this moment, indigenous communities have and for that healing and even have somebody with a platform like fiona be able to say "i'm sorry, i never knew until now," that is healing for me because i've been listening to fiona for 20 years. i never thought we would be friends. i never thought she would be invested in the work, and yet here she is using her power, using her medicine to transform and set a precedent for an entire generation of people. i think that is powerful. i also think the work that seeding sovereignty is doing is also setting a precedent and encouraging folks to be more engagaged with the climamate jue movementnt, to be more engngaged with violence against women because thatat begets violenence agagainst the land. and like it inindigenous h hists in the s so-calledninited ateses and relies almost everybody that peopople see as heroes werere actually genocidal maniacscs ttt wanted to ensure that this

country was rid of any indians or any people of color that were not of service to them. amy: indigenous activist erynn wise with getting sovereieignty and singer/songwriter fiona apple. they joined us just after the release of fiona apple's new album "fetch the bolt cutttters" we ended today sure we began with the title track. i've been thinking about when i was trying to be your friend i thought it was then, but it wasn't, it wasn't genuine i was just so furious, but i couldn't show you 'cause i know you and i know what you can do and i don't want a war with you, i won't afford it you get sore, even when you win and you maim when you're on offense but you kill when you're on defense and you've got them all convinced that you're the means and the end all the vips and pyts and

wannabes afraid of not being your friend and i've always been too smart for that but you know what? my heart was not i took it like a kid, you see the cool kids voted to get rid of me i'm ashamed of what it did to me what i let get done it stole my fun, it stole my fun fetch the bolt cutters, i've been in here too long fetch the bolt cutters, i've been in here too long fetch the bolt cutters ♪ that does it for our show. if you'd like to sign up for our courting report, could text .emocracynow to 66866 you can also sign up on our website democracynow.org. all of our video and podcasts are there and are transcript of every show. democracy now! is working with as few people onsite as possible. the majority of our amazing team is working from home.

democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york, new york 10013. [captioning made possible by democracy now!]

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