05/05/20 05/05/20 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: frorom new york city, the epicenter of the pandemic, this is democracy now! >> she wanted to see her daughter grow up and be there .or her and encourage her amy: after new york and new jersey, the next highest number of coronavirus infections per

capita in the united states is in the navajo nation, the largest indigenous reservation in the country. we will speak with the partner of the woman who died of the virus, 28-year-old valentina blblackhorse, loved community leader who promoted navajo culture, left behind a daughter. we will also get an n update frm a navajo doctor in winslow, arizona come andd go to g gallu, nenew mexico come to s speak toe head of f contingegent of volunr doctors with the heal initiative. then we go to a prison in ohio where one of the worst coronavirus optics in the united states has killed at least 11 prisoners and one staff member. theof prisoners and half prprison staff a at marion correctional i ititution have testeded positivive for covid-1. in april, makingng it the larget virus hotspot in the country. >> i met marion correctional where coronavirus is spreading

wildfire. they say 1300 people got it. that is a scary thouought. i might not make it home e to my chchildren. i just wanted to s speak up for what i believe in and hopefully this will make a difference and it reaches the right hand and we get some kind of relief. all i can ask is keep us in your prayers. amy: we will speak with the cofounder of prison abolition prisoner support whose husband james is incarcerated at marion and look at the coronavirus and case for abolition with ,rofessor ruth wilson gilmore author of "change everything." all that and more, coming up. welcome to democraracy now!, democrcracynow.org, quarantine report.. i'm amy goodman. the official coronavirus death toll has t topped a quarter of a million, with over 3.6 million confirmed cases. the official u.s. death toll is expected to top 70,000 today but that is widely believed to be an

undercount. a pair of studies predict the covid-19 outbreak is set to bebecome far deaeadlier in the united states. a draft federal emergency management agency report forecasts daily coronavirus deaths in the united states would rise to 3000 people a day by june 1. that's a 70% increase over the current figure. separately, the institute for health metrics and evaluation at the university of washington estimates the u.s. death toll will reach around 135,000 by auaugust i in the united states, more than double the institute's previous forecast. despite the worsening outbreak, many states are continuing to lift restrictions thisis week, including florida, where governor ron desantis gave the green light for state parks, non-essential businesses, and restaurants to open across the state at reduced capacity. on monday, miami beach had to

close a popular park just five days after reopening it after thousands failed to adhere to new rules requiring social distancing and wearing a face mask. in california, governor gavin newsom said monday some manufacturing and retail businesses, including okstores, , clothing and sporting goods s stores, and florists would be allowed d to reopen friday. businesses will have to abide by certain rules, including social distancing and offering curbside pickup. it can happen,s but we recognize as we begin to modify behaviors modify a possible community spread may occur. that is the case. and we do not have the capacity to control that spread, to trace that spread, to track that spread, to isolate individuauals that mayay have been in contact with covid-19. we will have to make modificacations a a new. amamy: chinana is fighting backn unsubstantiated claims by the trump administration that the

coronavirus was man-made and originated in a lab in wuhan. chinese state media has accused secretary of state mike pompeo of outright lying, calling on him to present evidence of his claims. the world health organization, u.s. intelelligence agenencies,d most scientists, including trump's top coronavirus expert dr. anthony fauci, have said they believe the outbreak started in nature, most likely throh h animal-t-to-human tranansmissision. reports emerged monday that further intelligence shared with the five eyes alliance -- the u.s., britain, canada, australia, and new zealand -- indicates it is highly unlikely covid-19 started insnside a laboratory. in new york, a report alleges the metropolitan detention center in brooklyn is destroying prisoners' medical records in an attempt to obscure the real number of people testing positive for the coronavirus and to avoid providing them medical care. the report was written by the former medical director of new york city's jails as part of a class-action lawsuit led by prisoners at mdc. this comes as attorneys with the

federal defenders of new york sayy mdc staff are blockining quarantined prisoners frfr speakingng to their lawywyers dg the covid-19 lockdn.n. the clothing retailer j.crew has filed for bankruptcy after the coronavirus pandemic forced the company to close stores across the country. the company expects to stay in business. student loanan holders are suing education secretary betsy devos. the education department is being accused of continuing to garnish the wages of federal ststudent loan bororrowers w whl behind on payments despite a new law prohibiting this during the pandemic. world leaders, wealthy individuals, and organizations joined an effort spearheaded by the european union monday to raise $8 billion for the development of a vaccine and treatments for the coronavirus. the european union and norway each pledged $1 billion. canada pledged $850 million. the united states pledged nothing and refused to take part in the fundraising effort. thisis is european comommission

president ursula von der leyen. >> at a time when we are sitting further apart than usual, the world has shown it is standing closer together than ever before. and in the space of just a few hours, we have collectively $7.4 billion -- 7.4 billion euros. and all of this money will help kickstart unprecedented global cooperation. amy: that isis european commmmin prpresident ursula vonon der le. the ununited nations said the success of the initiative wowoud be measured by the equal distribution of any treatment. in russia, questions abound after three healthcare workers have mysysteriously fafallen frm hospital windowsvever the pastst two weeks. two of them haveve died, while e is hospitalized. the hospitalized doctor previously pososted video on social media calling out the lack of medical equipment and the fafact he had to keeeep worg despite testing positive for covid-19.

russian authorities say they are investstigating all ththree cas. coronavirus cases contntinue to surge in russia, with overer 155,00000 confirmed infectio a d over a reported 1400 deaths. in britain, the ofoffice for nanational s statistics said the nation's death toll has topped 3232,000 to o become the h highn europe, and d second only in the world to the united statates. meanwhile, a a french hospspital says t they tread a a covid-1919 papatient as early as decembmbea month before t the government confnfirmed its fifirst cases. venenezuela has announced it has detained two former u.s. special forces soldiers who took part in a failed armed incursion aimed at toppling the government. on monday, venezuelan president nicolas maduro showed u.s. passports for the two men, identified as airan berry and luke denman. a former green beret named jordan goudreau has acknowledged the men were working with him in an attempt to detain maduro.

on monday, maduro accused the u.s. of being behind the plot. pompeo is betting on this attack and believed this attack would end the revolution and overthrow the e government d kill me. gogod save us and d protect us. amy: in colombia, an investigative report alleges colombian military intelligence officials carried out a massive surveillance operation targeting over 130 individuals, including politicians, union leaders and more than two dozen colombian and international journalists, including reporters working at "the new york times" and "the wall street journal." the military reportedly has a database with personal data, including home addresses, phone numbers, and information on family members and colleagues. press freedom groups are demanding right-wing colombian president ivan duque investigate the allegations. reuters reports the colombian defense ministry on friday announced the ououster of 11 unnamed military officials and the resignation of a military general linked to the scandal.

sudan has outlawed female genital mutilation. the u.n. estimates nearly 9 out of 10 women and girls in sudan have undergone the practice. a recent report estimates female genital mutilation is being regularly practiced in over 90 countries. women's and children's rights advocates celebrated the move but warned much work would be needed to ensure the law would be properly implemented. back in the e united states, the sesecretary ofof the u.s. senate rejected a request from joe bibiden to search for and releae any possible records of a complaint by tara reade following an alleged sexual assault in 1993. reade recently publicly accused joe biden of the assault, which she says happened when she worked in then-senator biden's office. biden has deninied the allegati. reade said she made complaints about biden's inappropriate behavior but did notot bring up the sexualal assault. reporters have called for biden's senatorial records at the university of delaware to be searched, but biden has refused to make susuch a request and the papers are seaealed to the publ. a top engineer andnd vice

president at amazon has resigned to protest the company's recent firing of whistleblowers and warehouse workers who demonstrated against unsafe working conditions during the pandemic. tim bray described in a blog post what he called a "vein of toxicity running through the companany culture." he went on to write, "i choose neither to serveve nor drink tht poisonon." in washington state, king county reached a $2.25 million settlement and apologized monday for the fatal shooting of a black teenage boy by sheriff's deputies in 2017. mi'chance dunlap-gittens was 17 years old when he was killed during a failed sting operation that falsely targeted one of his friends. labor scholar and puerto rican independence activist jose soler has died. for over 20 years, he was director of the umass dartmouth labor education center and most recently co-head of the new bedford coalition to save our schools, which fought charter school expansion. soler emerged in the social

justice world as a leader in the chicano rights organization the brown berets. he advocated for human rights and the independence of puerto rico in the 1970's. throughout his life, soler continued to work in the labor rights movement. he was a union organizer with uaw district 65 and a labor journalist. jose soler was 75 years old. and the 202020 pulitzer winners were announced monday. among the recipients, nikole hannah-jones of "the new york times" for her essay as part of the 1619 project, which reexamines the legacy of slavery. staff of " "the baltimore sun" n for local rereporting anand "the anchorage dailily news" " was awararded the public serervice e for its s series w with propubla about law enforcement and sexual crimes in alasaska. brian rosenthal won for his "new york times" expose of new york's taxi industry crisis and the predatory lending that led to it. yale professor greg grandin won the pulitzer for non-fiction for his book "the end of the myth: from the frontier to the border wall in the mind of america." the book "solitary" by albert

woodfox with leslie george was a finalist in the same category of general non-fiction. "solitary" is a memoir by woodfox, who served the longest time in solitary confinement of any prisoner in the united states. a podcast out of send quit state prison was a finalist for the first pulitzer prize in audio. ida b. wells received a posthumous special citation for "her outstanding and courageouss reporting g on the h horrific ad vicious violence againinst afrin americans during the era of lynching." you can see our interviews with many of the winners and finalists of this year's pulitzer prize, including greg grandin, albert wowoodfox, and brian rosenthal at democracynow.org. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the quarantine report. i'm amy goodman. i am here in t the epicenter of the pandemic in new york city. my co-host juan gonzalez is in new jersey, where he joins us from his home in new brunswick to help stop community spread.

hi, juanan. juan:: hi, amy. welcome to all of our r listenes and viviewers from a around the country and around the world. amy: new york hahas the most documented cases of covid-19 in the country, followed by new jersey. but we begin today's show in the place with the third highest number of coronavirus infections in the united states, the navajo nation. with a population of some 350,000 and territory that spreads over 27,000 square miles, the navajo nation is the largest native american reservation in the country. the rural community has reported having nearly 2300 known cases of covid 19 and 73 deaths as of sunday. one of those to die from the virus is 28-year-old valentina blackhorse, a beloved community leader who won multiple pageants and promoted navajo culture and education. she leaves behind a daughter

named poet. her sister, vanielle blackhorse, says valentina had hoped to enter politics in the future. she spoke to new mexico's s krq. , she wanted to see her daughter grow up and be there for her and e encougege hr know, encourage her to be in pageants, just like she did. amy: valentina blackhorse may have contracted the virus while caring for her partner, robby jones, a detention officer for the navajo department of corrections who says he could have been exposed at work. valentina died april 23, just one day after her coronavirus test came back positive. well, for more, we're joined now by robby jones. robby,y,o begin wiwith, o our deepest condolenences for your partner valentina.

amy: i know you are still reeling for you and your daughter, her familily, her whole commununity. can n you tell us s a little bit abou valalentina?? say sheentina, yoyou couldd realally loveded her immediate her niececes sisters, and nephews. she loved her r elderly.y. she loved children. hard-workining. she was warmhehearted. one thing she would do,o, she would do a anything for r her immediate family. she alwaways tried to take caref them as much as she could. jujuan: robby, could you tatalka

little b bit about herer involot in t the community, ththe issued e concernsns that she had abobot the navajo c community? that, she was barelyy getting into that. she alwaways wanted to help out the community. where she e worked at was depapartment of cocommunity developmenent whererehe was bennnning to learn how the navajo natioion would work and w the chapteter houses in ea parat of the navajoation, h how the woululd provide for t the commu. shshwas slowlyly learning howowo be involved inin that type off work. so s she was slowly gettining t. shee was in ofofce specialalistt at that timeme she wasas learnia lot. herselfly wanted to put in t the community. i'm pretty sure if she were still here, she would havave

apapied not just for a job, butt shshe wouould exceed into sometg more thahat would help our cocommunity. go ahead. juanan: when she bebecame ill, d you talk a little bit about the experience that she had there? obviously, she died quickly after beieing -- testing positi, within a day of testing is that it. could you talklk about h her expericece frorom the time she t ill untitil the time she sought treatment? , ithen she firsrst got sick was basicay y a week. shshe starteted showining symptf shortness ofof breath, body ach, loss of tataste of smell. thatime whehen she wawas taking care o of me, i guess she contracted it.

i stararted feelin better and that is when she s started feelg sick. i took advantage of m me rerecovering to take carare of . her toents and i advised the clinic but s she was afraido go to o the clinic. she did d not want to get admitted. so one day s she just felt horrrrible. she wawas not feeling totoo gooo four days after she got sick, that is when i took her to the nearest clinic and that is when they tested her.r. the covid-19.r days amy: she was brought to the clinic and they had hoped to bring her to the hospitatal in flagagstaff but t she passed awy before in the clinic? >> yes. think you, do you contracted coronavirus from your

work in the detetention cecente? where do youou work? > i believe so. i believe one of my coworkers, hehe hadad -- hehe tested positr cocovid 19. at tt t time we e did not knoww. we went to get tested again andd ththis time it came out pososit. a few days laterer, that is when we were nonotified thahat he ted positive for the virus. daughter,r, poet, has she b been infnformed of wht happened with her mother? haveve you been able to be with her at all? arare you still self-f-isolatin? >> i have not been with her close to a monthth since my firt sign off covid-19. to drop off our

baby at her parents housese. it has been almomost a month i have not seen n ouraughter.r. or daughter i is only one e year o. i have not actualally spoke with her yet.t. amy: were you giveven the proper protective gear r at work? , the e onlyat timime thing that we didid not have wee masksk theas dururing that time when uniteded states had a huge shortatage on the protececon g . we had gloves. we had cleaning supplieies aroud ththe area, b but the only y ths we were vulnererable too is i gs whwhen people cough. wewe did not havave masks at a . amy: robby, valentina was trying to promote covid awareness in the navajo nation, among the many t things she did ababout promoting navajo culture since you are a hot spot in ththe unid states, one of the worst affected p per capitita, the n o

nation? >> yes. especially witheher immediate falyly. she wouldlways helplp us to wear mamasks or gloves, make sure wee disinfected everything. she was pretty afrfraid. nationbefore the nanavajo got hit t hard, she was prettyty aware. she jujust wanted her family toe safe. juan: how would you like the world and the community to remember valentina? i would s say she w was a kindndheartedd p person. she woululd put othersrs before herself. if she knenew someone would need help -- needed help,p, she would

help them. i know s she loved herer eldersd she loved her children. or chihildren in general, esespecially the people e who we in need. amy: r robby, we want to t thanu so m much for beieing with us. robby, valalentina blackhorse's partner. again, our deepestst condolence. robby jones s speaking to us s m the navajo nation n where h heas a detention officer. -- where he is a a detention offificer. when we come back, we will speak with two doctors who have been working on the largest reservatation in the country, te most significant hototspot in ts country peper capita, third in e united statates with coronavirus infection after new york and new jersey. this is s democracacy now! we will be back in a moment. ♪ [music break]

amy: "a woman's journey" by radmilla c cody. this is democracy y now!,,

demomocracynow.org, the quaranae report. i am a new goodman in new york, the epicenter o of the pandemic. juan gonzalez is in new jersey, number two for coronavirus infections. and now we are going to number three per capita, navajo natati, as we continue to look at how the navajo nation has been hard-hit by the coronavirus pandemic, with the highest number of coronavirus infections per capita in t the united d sts following new york and new jersey. the rural wooded has reported having nearly 2300 known cases of covid 19, 73 deaths as of sunday. the navajo nation is the largest indigenous reservation in the united states with a population of some 350 thousand, territory that spreads over 27,000 square miles. two d doctors w who know this land well, on the ground treating patients. from gallup, new mexico, dr. sriram shamasunder, a leading a

-- he is leading a medical volunteer group of 21 nurses and doctors from the university of california, san francisco, where he is anan associate professssof medicine to the native american reservation near gallup. he is the cofounder of the heal initiative which has worked across nine countntries, inclclg navajo natation, since 2 2015 promoting health equity. and joining us from winslow, arizona, dr. michelle tom is a member of the navajo nation, and a family physician treating covid-19 patients at the winslow indian health care center andd little colorado medical center in northern arizona near the navajo reservation. she was a basketball star in college at arizona state university. welcome both of you to democracy now! dr. tom, let's begin with you. you work in the clinic where you were born. as you listen to valentntina ststory, a 28-year-old navajo woman who suddenly died after

being diagnosed with covid 19, your response? can you put it in the context of what is happening right now in the navajo nation? is a reflection of what we are going through as a people and correlates with what this virus can do to our young. as someone who i is very motivated, lovoved our culture, spread our cultuture and our language and that is what we are trying to fight for. there is not many who really promote really great things. she was a young person. she wawas going to lead d our nt generatition. it was a hard loss of our community. thinknk. tom, why dodo you therere has been susuch a devastation n in terms o of cov9 throughout the native population, espspecially in n no

country? >> i think the spread -- w we ae very matririarchal society. we have a connection t to the ld and to our community. so i really concentrate o on the community. when someone is sick, we tend to be there for one anothther. we live in multigenerationalal homes. spread isisct of that obviously more than we wananted, but that w was just part of our culture, to help one another and visisit one another r and encoue one another. and being with a v very strong family and these strong tieses, that was probably -- it is multi-factual, but that wasas oe of t the reasons. juan: what about the external ,onditions confronted day today fofor instance, asas much as 40f pepeople in the navajo reservatn do not have running water? how that affectsts theheir abily to combat this diseaease? >> absolutely.

and that i is from a long histoy with o our relationship to government. wewe have set aside certain this likeke that. our infrastructure f for water s never been at the capacity where we can provide water for everyone on the reservation, so you're tellingng people e to wah her handnds for 20 seconds and t people are trying just to get water to drink and cook with. we know ththat water is part ofa healthy body. so when you're tryrying to havae people watch things all the time, we are struggling with jujust clean water in general. dr. i want to bring shamasunder into the conversation. you're in gallup that is put under lockdown right now by the governor because of this massive ououtbreak. you describe treating four

generations of one f family. talk about your work that you''e been doingng there for years.. >> yes. healthped cofound a glolobal fellowship that transforms frontline health professionals to m me serving g the underservd a lifelong choice.e. over the last five years, we haveve had 150 frontline health professionals come through our program. halflf of them are u.s. dodoctor nurses and the other half arare either navajajo or from countris such as haiti oror mexico or india.a. it is a really diverse community of frontline workers that are trying to get better by servivig underserved popopulations. we workk in navajo nation for te last five yeaears, since 2015,5d had partnerships. i think k it's important to know before covid-19, indian health

service, navajo p population, wt we're seeining right now is this trajectory of an underfunded health system where ihs has funded one third the rate per capita as the v.a. or medicare. the level of inequity that you are saying i the covid cases you're sick in gallup as well as elsewhere, it is part of this pattern in michigan and c chicao we know in michigan, 40% are black folks. are black deaths people. in navajo nation a and newew me, 11% of the population is native american but you see almost one third of the cases, covid cases, the native american. i think -- i have been practicing both in gallup, new mexico, with our team of volunteers as well as chimney,

arizona. in gallup, i think what is amazing is i am running a spreads but my colleagues like dr. tom have really been running this marathon for a long period of time. in gallup, they have done an amazing job. i think you've have seen this incredible local leadership where they have been able to put 125 unsheltered people, community members, into motel rooms. helping to take care of them as well as stop community spread. in chimney, arizona, this last weekend i was taking care of patients and, like you mentioned, amy, there's been four generations -- a great grandmother, grandmother, mother, and daughter -- that were all hospitalized. i think this is what the navajo, colorswhoho -- my navajo have been dealing with thehe lat six weeks and the surge is upon is where taking cap a grandmother this last weekend,

we are always deciding whether these facilities can manage. it is such a humbling disease. a a lot of the fafacilities thae arare in, once you intubatete te patient cocoming into transfer thememo phoenix x or albuquerer. alall of the providers are tryig to learn what is the trajectory. because every time e you intubae a patient, it is just one more level beyond what we deal with in san franciscoco because the navajo people where the land is so sacred, they're going to wake up isolated in another cityy suh as phoenix o or albuquerque. i think that is humbling. the navajo providers are trying to see how m much they can takee care of their patients in their facilities. whwhen it is not safe nor -- ananymore i have t to transfer paentsts out. dr. dr. shamasunder, i wowould ask about t the troublef

30's to combat t covid-19 and ao how the government of new mexico, the state government has responded. august the, ththere was a lot of rereports about the s state invg the right contntrol act and sealing off gallup. can you talk about both, the e state response and the tribal government response -- especially in view of what we have been sing of the relative a an action at the federal level on this disease? >> yeah, i think the incncredibe resourcefulness and resilience of the navajo people is totally apparent when we come here. we actually met with ththe navao president when we arriveded. he has really been on n the forerefront of havining people shelter in place and like dr. tom was saying, when you're trying to shelter in place and you live with eight or 10 people

in this expensive definition of family where the community is so connected, you're going to have community spread. the outbreak i thihink in navajo nation is not a lack of leadership. i think the president has been incredible at having the leak in lockdowns, which is externally difficult for the navajo p peop. really leading with w wearing masks in public. doing all of the right things i think from the national sovereign level l and he i is bn vevery vocal to say that the federal response has been extremely slow. whatat i see in chchile, arizone have behavioral healthth coaches -- chimney, arizona, have behavioral health coaches that are not usually taking care of covid patients at this time. they have taken ovover the cafeteria and making ppe and

sewing ppe. theink you see the top of navajo nation and health professionals really leading an incredible response. and the federal government has just been incredibly slow. and honestly, gallup is a border town, which is not under jurisdiction of the navajo government. but it is an area where a lot of navajo people come to get groceries, come into town, and there's a lot of activity. the second-highe casaseload of new casess in the coununtry in e last two weeks. i am here and i will l go on shipped later today. the gallup providers have just said earlier lasast week they saidid, i don't think weeedd you and this week they are saying, we're gettingng exhausted, the surge is comoming and coming and there aree more more patients ad we need you to help out and d do some shifts.

i think the new memexican government has b been strong in all must f following the lead te najojo president has put in place. amy: dr. michelle tom, what you feel the rest of the country should understand, especially with compromised health care in general in the area due to poverty, due to uranium mining and how that compromises the health o of so manany people? >> yes, it is just access. it has made our work harder. dr.r. shamasunder said, i amam proud of our nationon and e facility i work fofor. just getting that public health out ththere. washshing your hands, social distancing, maybe hand sanitizer. really just listening to our leaders right now and health professionals.

amy: we want to thank you so much, dr. michelle tom, speaking to us from winslow, arizona, navajo nation family physician, one of the few navajo doctors on the reservation. and dr. sriram shamasunder, an associate professor of medicine at university of california san francisco. has led a group of doctors and nurses to navajo n nation, has been doing that since e 2015. and in gagallup, new mexico, rit now which i is on lockdkdown. when we e come back, the pandemc in prisons. 80% of the prisonerers in one he tested positive, half the staff. we will go to marion. and we will talk about prison abolitition. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: the audio premiere of steve "union, god, and country." it centers on the upper big branch coal mine explosion that killed 29 men in the state in 2010, making it one of the worst mining disasters in american history. steve earle says "west virginia was the most unionized days in america until very recently, her big branch was the first nonunion m mine on that mouountn and it blew up and kililled 29 men. this is a song about better days." this is dedemocracy now!, demomocracynow.org, the quarante reportrt. i am a amy goodman with juan gonzalez as we turn to a prison

in ohio where one of the worst coronavirurus outbreaks in the u.s. has killed at least 11 prisoners and one staff member. 80% of prisoners and half the prisonon staff at marion correctional institution tested positive for covid-19 in april, making it the largest virus hohotspot in the couountry. a massive outbreak has also devaststated pickaway prprison, where at least 23 prisoners and one staff member have died from the virus. this i is an incarcerated person at marion describing c conditios inside the pririson. >> i am that mary correction whwhere the coronavirus is sprereading like wildfirire. they say 1300 people got it. that is a scary thought. i mimight not make it home to my children. i just wanted to speak u up for what i belieieve in and believe this will make a difference anad it reaeaches the right hands and we get some kind of relief. all l i can ask is just keep usn your prayers. amy: despite growing c calls to release e thousandnds of ohio's

nearly 50,000 prisoners as the coronavirus s spreadads, governr mike dewine has ononly approved the releasase of more than peope 100 in the state's prisons. protesters recently held a car demonstration outside the ohio statehouse d demanding the governor free 20,000 p people in may.y. demonstratorors spoke to abc ne. this clip p begins w with teresa rogers, whwhose son is imprisoned in n ohio. >> it is a reasonable number, but most of them are going to get t out anyway. most of them are on their way out anyway. how are we protecting these people? they don't have proper ppe. sosome have e masks made from tt paper andnd sheets. amy: this comes asas a n new ret by the prison policy inititiatie finds that while some jails have drdrastically cut populalations, state prisons have released almomost no one. well, forr more, we go to austi, texas, where we are joined by azzurra crispino, co-founder of prison a abolition prisosoner supporort, paps, associate prprofessor r of philolosophy at austin communinity college in texas.s. her husband james is incarcerated at mamarion.

welcome. this is 80% of the prisoners and half t the staff? whatat are you demanding? how is your husbanand? you're asking that he be released. he served the vast t majorirityf his time. whwhat is the response?? > so far we have received a response from ththe county prosecutor's offifice filing a motion against his ininitial release, and we are wawaiting fr judge e wanda jones to dececide whwhether she will g grant him a hearing or if she will deny his jujudicial r release. wewe are sayaying a fefew people released out of marion. ththey'reble to attend hearin by teleconference as if they wishsh, but notot anywhere neare 2020,000 in may that we and oths in our coalition are demanding. in terms of conditions at marion , governor dewine has been brbragging a about the fact he called in the national guard.. however, that has s substantialy

increased tensions, as y you hae people who are notot trained in de-escalation and really don't understandnd the prisonn enronment. you have incarcerated p people o are takiking care e of eachh ots they are scared toto request medical facilitieses because thy are led to believe, and probably are, beingng placed in solitary confinement condiditions ifif ty are seen a as being g too sick d then t they will be ablele to hp eaeach other. we're g getting r reports o of e using vicks vaporub a and puttig it in hotspots to babasically fellowfevers for r the incarcerated people. memeanwhile, the governonors bragging about how great a resolution to the situation ohio has. , we arezurra crispino getting the reports -- we have seen reports that in cook cououy jail in chicago, 800 0 confirmed cacases. and so far six prisoners and one correction officer have died. we a are seeing in new york city at rikers island, 800 city

correction employees have tested positive and 8 have e died. the city jails seem m to bee mog much more quickly to r reduce prison populatations, but t somf the statate prison systems are mumuch slower to react or aree resisting. why y do you t think that is?? >> i thihink it is the political problem. the governors don't want to be seen as being sosoft on crime. politicacally, they absolutelyly nothing to lose. whereas thosose of us who have family and friends whoho are incarcrcerated undererstand thee our loloved ones and we e don'tt to see them die.e. in addition,n, i don't ththink there's been enough h focus on e judiciarary and now it can b be vovolved. now, ohio isis a littltle unique becacause it has a c completelyy different parole system than most states. long/short, it always got rid of parole in 191997. what that means is it is easier

for r political officials t to basically be able to pass ththe hot potato around. i ink i in state facilities, in a way we have not seen at the federal l level or at the city d county jails w where dueue to te pretrial nature of many p peopl, there's s been a greatater focun hehelping pepeople whoho are p d innocent. i think ultimately, this is a question of humanization. as long as wee continue to see incarcerated people as disposable, then we are n n pointed to with this problem head on. amy: i want to bring another guest into the conversation as we turn now to look k the coronanavirus and the case for abolition. the spreadad of covid-19 poses mortal danger to the more than 2.3 million people locked up in u.s. prisons and jails. as of may 1, the marshall project reports more than 14,000 incarcerated people and nearly 4000 workers in state and federal prisons have tested positive for the virus -- and that number is expected to be far higher due to lack of testing.

activists and human rights defenders are demanding the mass release of pririsoners to save lives and halt the spread of the devastating virus.s. for more, we are joined by abolitionist scholar ruth wilson gilmore. she is a professor of earth and environmental sciences and director of the center for place, culture, and politics at cuny graduate center. she is co-founder of california prison moratorium project and critical resistance and the author of "golden gulag: prison, surplus, crisis, and opposition in globalizing california." her forthcoming book is "change everything: racial capitalism and the case for abolition." professor ruth wilson gilmore, it is an honor to have you with us from lisbon, portugal, where you are right now. can you start off with the basics? how are youou defined abolition? and can you put it in a pandemic context right now? >> oh, i certaiainly -- thanknku for having m me o on the shshow. it was very good fofor me to her

the commentaryry from my colleae in texas s stopped abolition ses way -- it sees prison and punishment t as solutions for all kinds of social economic, political, behavioral, and interpersonal problems. abolition is not simply decarceration, put everybody out on the street. it is rereorganizing howow we le our lives together in the world. and d this is something that pepeople are doing i in a varief ways thrououghou the unitedd states and a around the planet already. itit is not a pie-in-the-sky dream. it is actually something that is practical and achievable in the city of new york, in tetexas, in south africa, aroround the worl. juan: could you talk about this responsese from other partrts oe

world to the question of crime and punishment and why, obviously, we can all talk about how the u.s. has such a disproportionate percentage of the world's prison populatation? interesting,d of although, it is probably just a coincidence, that the united stateses has about o one in n fo prisoners in the world. itit also has about wananted for oned deaths in the world -- in four cocovid deaths in the world. it makes me stop and think about how w it i we organize ourselves in the united states across the didisparate they go from the atlantic to the pacific and beyond. so in other parts of the world, what onene seess is a very simpe fact. where life is precious, life is precious. in places where the state, the

government, municipalities, social justice organizations, faith communities, labor unions work together to lift up human lifefe, the incidence of crime d punishment -- including the incidence of interpersonal harm -- are less likely to occur. and this is in places where populations are everery bit as diverse as in the united ststat. we also see that in placess whee inequality is the deepest, the use of prison and punishment is the greatest. nowhere, however, gets even close to the united states. amy: prorofessor ruth wilson gilmore, , you talk a about organized abandonment and organized violence of the state. you talk about thiss as between people''s of the pandemic. pleaease, explain.

>> did i use the word " evil"? organized abandonment has to do with the way that people, householdsds, communities, neighborhoods, do not have eqeql levels of support and protection against the pandemic and that the response to peoplple tryingo figure out how t to shelter themselves andnd save thehemsels -- let's takake an examplele frm the city of new york. homeless people living in the anday -- is to use policing criminalization, i.e., punishment, to resolve the problem up abandonment. now, organized abandonment is not only abandonment by the state, it is also abandonment by capital. whether it is abanandonment by real estate capital that produces more andore luxury apartments but not affordadable housing, as wewe can see in

struggles throughout t the cityf new york and around the united states, or tourism capital that pushes certatain kindsds of peoe out of certain areas of the city and only welelcomes them in if they work a as workers in the service industryy delivering, serving, taking care of and cleaning. there are many, many ways for us to think about organized abandonment, but that thinking should bring us to consider both how capital, large and small, and state, municipal or greater, work together to raise barriers to some kinds of people e and lower than for others. juan: i wanted to ask you, when prison r reform is discussed, it is usually talked about help or assistance to nonviolent offenders or the r release of nonviolelent offenders as opoppd to violent offenders, as if a violent t offender, there's no

question they could nevever be released before their sentence is up. your take on t this issue of the attempt toto divide the prisonn population betetween nonviolent and violent offenders? >> certainly. and my calling from texas already raised this -- my colleague from texas already raised this isissue. the e underlying divisionn suggs we know someththing abobout one group p of people that is n nev, ever going to change. anand what we forget is most people who go to prison for whatatever the c controlling offense, w which is s to say wht they are convicted of, leaves someday. that m means that instead of thinking that we have these two groups that we can predict the behavior of, that t we ought toe thinking about the kind d of lie that makes possible people to return of the world from which they have been removed in such a way that anyny hararthat mightht

have occurreded does not harmm anybody again in the future. do in alltionists kinds of work surrounding what we call transformative justice, is to try to work that out. so some of the leading abolitionists in the united states and around the world today are people like kelly gillespie and others who came out of work against domestic violence, i.e., it was doing work to try to fight against violence and harm that they realized abolition was the only way to resolve the problems that were not being resolved by having better, faster, more swift punishment when somebody harms somebody else. amy: i wananted to bring a azzua crcrispino back into the conversation to ask about the

memedia coverage of the prisone. again, get ruth wilson gilmore's response to this astounding situation in ohio, 80% of the prisoners testing positive. you have that happening right now in ohio. -- innessee, you have arkansas, the governor announced tuesday nearly 40% of the state's coronavirus cases are coconcentrated in a comments maximum-security prison were some 850 prisoners have tested positive. in new york, the former head of accusing mdctor is of not releasing figures on the prisoners who were detained there. so what is your exact demand right now is your husband remains s in prison, and the reresponse of the govevernor of ohio, dewine. >> firirst i want to thank

professor gilmlmore becausee my huhusband has enen violent -- convicted of a a violent offense but that does not mean he is a violent person. people can change. in terms of the media covoverag, one of the frustrations has been ohio has been unwilling to release the names of the dead,d, espepecially at pickckaway. we have one ofof our partners rmerly incarcerated there who wants s to know whichchf his princece may have died b but wee being told that we can't t have that informatition due t to priy reasons yet at marion correctional, recently two well-known people that c commitd murders died, both of them got media c coverage in theirir dea. but when jesse ziegler dies, by loving father, then we don't talk about him, right? so from the use of the word inmate versus incararcerated p person,e focus on state actors suchch as governor dewine without focusing on what everybodody else can do, we have seenen, i thihink, some

pretty mixeded m media coverage. i would like to see journalistss continueue to do better by reaching out to people directlty impacted and uplififting those voices.. i think the people were closest to t the problblem are also clot ofof the sololution. it is so wonderful to see journalist such as democracy now! doing a great job of covering thehese issues. juan: prorofessor wilson n gilm, you focucused a lot ofof your researchch and attention on the rolele of incarceration in california specifically, the nations biggest and most populous and propers states. prosperouous statates. close the major lessonon i would like to show their audiencnce te lastst few seconds we hahave together is that california was on a path to making whatat was a huge and bulging prison system to be e bigger and bigger and bigger. and that is where integrate

abolition movement in the u unid states took root. we fought and fought and five throughout urban and rural california, making common cause with labor unions, health-care workers, faith communities, environment of justice activists,s, and others to do naturalize the notion that crime was the problem for which prisons and punishment was the right solution. as a result of which the number of people in california prisons is much lower than it was even imaginined it could be in thther 2000 because of the work that abolitionists did. that work spam. victories in los angeles county where a plan to build multibillion-dollar jails nearly 15ed after years of struggle. amy: we have to leave it there but i want to thank you so much for joining us, ruth wilson

gilmore, author of "golden gulag: prison, surplus, crisis, and opposition in globalizing california." her forthcoming book is "change everything: racial capitalism and the case for abolition." and i want to thank azzurra crispino, prison abolition cofounder of prison