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tv   Democracy Now  LINKTV  May 18, 2020 4:00pm-5:01pm PDT

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05/18/20 05/18/20 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, the epicenter of the pandemic, this is democracy now! bethere will likely resurgence of covid-19 this fall. it will be greatly compounded by the seasonal inflfluenza. without better training, 20/20 could be the darkest winter in modern history. amy: 48 u.s. states are partially reopening for business, even as about a dozen states are seeing an uptick in
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infection. how will the coronavirus pandemic reshape the world? how will the pandemic end? today we spend the hour with yale leading historian frank snowden, author of "epidemics and society: from the black death to the present." >> wititregards toovid-19, t the first grereat pandemimic of globobalization. aspectsics are nott random .. they don't rikeke societieses by chance and at t random, th follow chahannels that w we ouourselves have created that ty are able to exploit. amy: professor snowden got caught in italy during the lockout and himself contracted covid-19. he will talk about how pandemics like revolution, war, economic crises are key determinants of historic change. all that and more, coming up.
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welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the quaranante report. i'm amy goodmaman. there are now over 4.7 million confirmed cases of the coronavirus and more than 315,000 known deaths around the world. here in the united states, official cases are nearing 1.5 million, with almost 90,000 deaths, representing over one quarter of all fatalities and almost one third of the confirmed ininctions. this d despite thehe u.s. having less than 5%5% of the worlrld's population. robert redfield,ead d of the centnters fodisesease control ld preventition, tweeted d friday e u.s. is on trackck to exceed 100,000 coronavirus deaths by june 1. 48 states will be at least partially reopened this week as health experts continue to warn of the danger of a hasty end to lockdowns. in new york, governor andrew cuomo confirmed saturday new
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covid-19 cases are predominantly coming from people leaving their homes to shop, exercise, or socialize. he also announced new york will join neighboring new jersey, connecticut, and delaware in partially reopening beaches for the upcoming memorial day weekend. meanwhile in california, orange co. coronavivirus cases continue to mount with over 4000 infections reported. a new study published in the journal health affairs finds places without any social 35 times moree potential coronavirus infections. covid-19 cases are on the rise in texas with 1800 new infections reported on saturday, the single day highest increase in texas so far. governor greg abbott started reopening the state in early may, allowing shops, restaurants, movie theaters, malls, museums, and libraries to resume business. he is expected to announce further measures today. congressional democrats are
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launching a probe into president trump'p's ousting of s state departrtment watchdog steve link friday. congressmember eliot engel said linick was fired as an unlawful act of retaliation after he opened an investigation into secretary of state mike pompeo. linick was reportedly looking into whether pompeo used a political appointee to perform personal tasks for himself and his wife, including walking his dog and taking care of his dry cleaning. trump has removed at least four watchdogs in the past weeks, including health and human services watchdog christi grimm after her office reported shortages in testing and personal protective equipment at hospitals. in april, trump ousted acting pentagon inspector general glenn fine, who had been tapped to oversee the $2.2 trillion coronavirus relief package, as well as the intelligence community's inspector general michael atkinson, who alerted lawmakers to the whistleblower complaint that triggered trump's
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impeachment proceedings. the house passed a $3 trillion stimulus package friday. this fourth bill would make testing and treatment of covid-19 available to anyone who needs it, and includes funding for vote by mail, measures to release more vulnerable prisoners, and increased housing protections. but progressives say the bill doesn't go far enough, leaving out key proposals, including the paycheck guarantee act and recurring monthly stimulus checks of $2000 as called for by senator bernie sanders and some democratic lawmakers. both trump and senate majority leader mitch mcconnell have declared the bill dead on arrival. on friday, trump named moncef slaoui, a former executive at glaxosmithkline, and army general gustave perna to lead the effort to develop a coronavirus vaccine, which trump has dubbed "operation warp speed." some have raised a reded flag or
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a possible conflict of interest as slaoui holds $10 million in stock options at biotech company moderna inc., which recently received $480 million in federal funding for coronavirus vaccine trials. white house trade adviser peter navarro blamed the centers for disease control prevention for "letting the country down" on testing sunday. navarro made the remarks on nbc's "meet ththe press." in response, the cdc told cnn,n, -- "we should remind mr. navarro that the cdc is a federal l agey part of the administration. the cdc didirector is an appoind positionon, and dr. redfield was appointed by president trump. if there is criticism of the cdc, ultimately mr. navarro is being critical of the president." on thursday, the white house released a six-page document outlining basic steps local governments could take too
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reopened their economies. the document's release came after the white house shelved a more detailed -- and much more strict -- 68-page planning document produced by the cdc requested by white house coronavirus task force coordinator dr. deborah birx and leaked to the media last week. this is obama speaking s saturdy toto graduates of 74 historicaly black colleges and universities. pres. obama: more than anything this pandemimic has torn back te curtain on the ideahat 70 o the lks inharge kn what they are doing. a lolot of thehem are n not even pretending too be in charge. amy: in belgium, medical staff staged a dramatic silent protest saturday as prime minister sophie wilmes made a visit to the saint-pierre hospital in brussels. doctors and nurses outside the hospital turned their backs to ththe street as s wilmes arrivey
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car. medical workers are protesting against a move to recruit stafaf members they say are not qualified to help carry out nursing duties. they are also calling for increased recognition of their work. belgium has the highest per capita death rate in the world with just over 9000 deaths, representing 78 deaths per 100,000 people, though some say the high number could be due to its reporting system, whihich counts depths of non-hospitalized people.e. in the town of liege, doctors and nurses held a socially distanced flash mob to draw attention to their demands. this is a nurse speaeang about the action.. >> this action is to make people here aware of the work we do with working conditions s which are e not always great, patients not i in good shapepe. personally, we are proud to be nurses. amy: italy, once the hardest hit european nation, is further easing its lockdown measures. shops, hair salons, restaurants
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and bars reopened for business today, though with limitations. italy will also allow travelers from within europe to enter without quarantining beginning in june. the vatican and churches throughout italy began holding public masses again under new social distancing guidelines. this is italian prime minister giuseppe conte. >> we are facing a calculated risk. in all conscience, i have to admit it clelearly the curve could go upwards. our principles and values stay the same. first of all, the protection of life and the citizens health. these are nonnegotiable principles, but we have to face them in a different way in the second phase. we are facing the risk and we have to accept it because of that -- because otherwise we will never get started again. amy: italy announced just over 150 coronavirus deaths saturday, the lowest number of daily
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fafatalities in erer two monont. meanwhile, arrests were made at anti-lockdown protests in germany, britain, and poland over the weekend, as demonstrations against government restrictions mount. spain and israel also saw anti-lockdown protests over the weekend. in i india, the nationonwide coronavirus lockdown has been extended for another two weeks. mumbai is feeling the most devastating impacts of the pandemic as the city y of 20 millllion accountsts for 20% off inina's cocovid-19 cases and nearly one quarter of the deaths. hospitals are overflowing with patients, and social distancing is practically impossible in the city's vast slum districts. india now has over 9 96,000 confirmed cases anand over 3000 deaths. japan's economy is officially in recession anand is expected to t worse as the coronavirus continues to cause massiveve disrsruptions to markets around thworld. in other news from japan, ththe country's public broadcasr
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has created a viral video showing how quickly coronavirus can spread in a social setting. experimementers had 10 subjejecs share a bubuffet-style meal fora half an hour a after one of them secretly painted their hand with an invisible substance that fluoresces when exposed to ultraviolet light. at end of the experiment, a black light was turned on, revealing the substance e had spread to several dishes, the hands of everyone at the table, and three of the participants' faces. brazil s saw thousands of new cases ofovid-19 over the weekend, sururpassing both i ity and d spain to bececome the fourth-most affected country in the world. on fridaday, brazil's health minister quit after just a fefew weekeks on the jobob. nelsonon teich g gave no reasonr his abrupt resesignatition, bute repoportedly refusused to suppoy brililian esesident jairir bolsononaro's promotion of t the drug hydroxychloroquine to treat covid-19 patients. the drug was touted by bolsonaro's u.s. ally, president trump, but studies show it
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confers no benefit on coronavirus patients and has potentially deadly side effects. last month, bolsonaro fired his previous heaealth minister for recommmmending sociaial distancg measures.. bolsonaro continues to dismiss covid-19 a as a little flu. anand on sunday, he joined a packed rally of supportersrs in brasilia, pulling children out of the crowd for photographs in violation of public health advice. bolsonaro worere a face mask duriring sunday's s rally -- une in othther recent public gatheringsgs. meanwhile,e, a new study finds 6 -- over 400 cases of covid 19 and deaths among indigenous 90 people in brazil, raising fears of a rapid spread in communities with little access to healthcare. this is a nurse of an indigenous community outside the city of manaus, speaking at a funeral for chief messias kokama, who died of covid-19. have the string of quality education and health
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because we have not yet been provided with assistance. his death is also representative of what is lacking, a lack of health care, of what is missing for thosose injured his who live in the city. amy: in chile,e, thousands of gravaves were dug inin the capil city i go as chile has seen a massive spike e in its coronavis ininfection rate sinince last w. chile's health ministry on sunday reported the total l numr of cfirmed casases has risen to over 43,700 0 and a death toll f 450, triggering the government to enforce a mandatory lockdown in santiago starting this past friday affecting 7 million people. in nicararagua, reports of clandestine burials for people who have died of severe respspiratory issues i is prompg fear that t the government of daniel ortega is hiding the real impact of covid-19.. kenya a has closed its borders o stem the spread of coronavirus as confirmed infections in kenya arare nearing 900 and health
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officials say y they don't have the necessary equipment or medical personnel to cope with the outbreak. in afghanistan, president ashraf ghani and his rival abdullah abdullah signed a power-sharing deal sunday, putting an end to a months-long leadership crisis after both men declared victoryy in last september's elections. under the deal, abdullah will lead peace talks with the taliban. this c comes as the country is still reeling after a brutal attack on a maternity ward in kabul, which killed at least 24 people, including babies, mothers, and nurses. the united nations children's fufund warns millions of childrn are e at risk of preventable deaths due to the pandemic's strain on healthcare systems. one unicef model shows as many as 6000 young children in low- and middle-income nations could die each day as families lose access to nutritious food and hospitals collapse under a flood of covid-19 patients, cutting off access to routine health care. in the u united stateses, new da
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show a steep drop in reported cases of child abuse, but experts think that conceals a surge of abuse taking place inside the home. with children largely ouout of sight duringng the lockdown, there's little opportunity for teachers, coaches, andnd social workerers to report tetelltale s of abuse. israel swore in a new government led by benjamimin netanyahu anad benny gantz sunday after the two former rivals agagreed to a power-sharing deal last month. they will take turns serving 18 months each as prime minister, starting with netanyahu. neither man was able to win enough votes to secure the leadership after three separate elections over the past year. as he was sworn in, netanyahu repeated his pledge to further annex the occupied west bank. netanyahu is under indictment for corruption and is scheduled to stand trial later this month. in other news from israel, the chinese ambassador to israel, du wei, was found dead in his home on sunday. chchina is sending a team to
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investigate,e, though both israi and chininese authorities say te death is believed to be from natural caususes. in egypt, the editor-in-chief of the independent media outlet mada masr was released on bail sunday after herer arrest for allegedldly filming a military facility without a license. lina attalah was arrested outside the notorious tora prison where she was interviewing laila soueif, a prominent human rights activist and mother of the jailed pro-democracy activist alaa abd el-fattah. abd d el-fattatah has spent 35 s on hununger strike demanding family visits and access to his lawyerer amid the cororonavirus pandememic. in clilimate news, atmosphpheric carbon d dioxide levels have reached their highest lelevel in human history and continue to climb despite a modest decrease in carbon emissions due to the pandemic. with huge swaths of the world's economy on lockdown, global emissions are expected to decline this year by a record 8%. but climate scientists say that's not nearly enough to flatten the so-called "keeling
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curve" of carbon dioxide levels, now at about 415 parts per million. 2020 is on track to be the hottest year ever recorded, beating out 2016. french police have arrested a man long accuseded of helping to finance the 1994 rwandan genocide in whwhich 800,000 peoe wewere killed. 84-year-r-old felicien kabuga ws arrested in a a raid near parisn saturdayay. in 1997, he was indicted for war crimes, including gegenocide and crimes against humanity. and the legendary book agent and housing activist frances goldin has died at the age of 96. in 1951 at the age of 27, goldin ran for new york state senate on the american labor party slate headed by w.e.b. du bois. she later helped preserve the lower east side of manhattan by organizing to stop robert mose'' plan to bulldoze 12 blocks of the neighborhood in the name of so-called urban renewal.
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frances goldin helped start the cooper square committee that advocated for tenant rights, community-based planning, and affordable housing. as a literary agent, goldin's clients included barbara kingsolver, adrienne rich, democracy now!'s juan gonzalez, and the internationally renowned imprisoned journalist mumia abu-jamal. goldin talked about mumia's case on democracy now! in 2014. >> our prison system locks up millions of people who have never committed a crime in their life. the prime one being mumia blue jamaal, who never killed anyone, and woman who was grieving her departed husband, she grieved for the person who really killed the guy and not for mumia, who had nothing to do with that murder. and who has incidentally become theof the look -- one of leading intellectuals in the united states. frances goldin has died at the age of and those are some of the 96. headlines. this i is democracy now!,
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demomocracynow.org, , the quarae report. i'm amy goodman. when we come back, we'll spend the hour looking at the history of epidemics from blacack deatho prpresent with renowned historin frank snowden.n. his new book "epidemics and society" p published last year justst before the coronavirus outbreak began. he wasas caught in the lockdownn italy where he will speak to o s from. he g got covid-19.9. he wilill talk about epipidemic, revovolutions,s, war. stay with us. ♪ [music break]
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amy: quarantined trumumpeter alalberto ananguzza playing "c"e of life" for his neighbors. this is democracy now!,, democracynynow.org, the quarante repoport. i'm amy goodmaman. 4848 statetes are at least party
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reopening this week even as more than a dozen states are seeing an uptick in cases and the centers for disesease control ad prevention warns the u.s. death toll will pass 100,000 by june. last, ousted u.s. vaccine chief rick bright testified that if the u.s. fails to improve its response to the virus, covid-19 could resurge after summer and lead to the darkest winter in modern history. coronavirus hotspots italy and the united kingdom are both alao slowly reopening businesses. this comes as the world health organization will meet virtually today with all 194 member states and the glglobal coronavirus deh count passes 315,000 with more than 4.7 million confirmed cases.s. this is dr. mike ryan, head of the world health organization's emergencncies program spspeakint a recent briefing. >> >> this virus may become just
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another endemic virus in our communities and this virus may never go away. hiv has not gone away, but we have come to terms with the virus. leaders prerepared to discucuss what to e expect ie monthshs and years t to come, at going to look back today the history of pandedemics andnw they end witith renowned historn frfrank snowden. he i is a professor ememeritus f the history of medicine at y yae university and author of the new book "epidemics and society: from the black death to the present." professor snowden is joining us from rome, italyly, where he traveled for research before the coronavirus outbreak and has remained under quarantine. he has recently recocoverefrfroa covid-19 himself. he also liveved through a cholea ououtbreak in rome while
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conductiting research there almt half a century ago. in his book, professor snowden writes -- "epidemic diseases are not random events that afflict societies capriciously and without warning. on the contrary, every society produces its own specific vulnerabilities. to study them is to understand that society's structure, its standard of living, and its political priorities." professor frank snowden, welcome -- it is wonderful to have you with us, albeit from rome where you under lockdown. what an amazing history yourself as you are an expert in pandemics in italy, survived the cholera outbreak half a century ago, and now -- the getting covid-19, have survived this coronavirus pandemic. can y you talk about t those tw peririences? >> certainly.
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thank yoyou. i'm delighted to be with you. in chcholera outbreak was 1973. that is s one of t the reasosont iias -- i took k in an interest in the field because the source of events i was witnessing as a young man weree quite extraordinary. they included susuch things as naplesasas the epipicenter, rome was nononetheless affecteted byt naples was thehe center. and cars with nanaples license place were being g stoned in the center of roman. their r open air markekets in re anand vendors wewere having ther stalalls are returned anand they were b being attttacked the cros as beingng guilty of spreading e disease. at t the same time, italy at ths time, let'ss remember, was the seventh industrial power in the world in t the 1970's. ththe minister of health of this power went on t televisioion.
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whatat he did was to decidede tt the microbe that causes the color is exquisitely sensitiveve -- all you need to do is s takea limited and squeeze justst a benefit on youour raw muscles ad then you w will be perfectly sa. you belelieve that, youou're likekely to believe just about anything. e event thatort of caughtht my attention. anand later on when i i was stug something else entirely, there was a cholereroutbreak i in itay anand i began thinking in my studies that actually this w whatmore cononclusively values were in italy and italian society, what living standards work, and so on, that any other kind of work i might do. and d so i moved i into udying e history of epidemic d diseases.
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and i have been doing that alongside an interest in moderen italian history. those two things ever since. that is the cholera stotory. story, icoronavirus finished a a book, my book that you mentiononed kinindly, in october.r. it was published then. i had been quitete concerned abt the polyps ability -- possibilitity of a major pandemc disease, not just myself, that many peoeople were. andnd i wroe that in n the book. i was stunned. i did not know whwhen it was likely to happen. i thought onee day in the futur. and so i wasas andnd that inn december -- stunnedd that in decemberer, the epidemic s star. i the time i camame to italy in january, it really began to ramp up most o of and very soon i was living in the epicenter of the coronavirus at that timeme.
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so that was a very important experiencece for me.e. i was s not able to do the research i came to do and i devoted myself ever since to doing that. i guess you might say i had a little too much enthusiasm for my work and d caught the disisee myself. fortunately, a mild cacase and i am he e to tell e tatale. in that regard. but i certainly hahad had a cloe the serieshis event, of eventnts,n italy and i have been reading i intensively a abt it and t talking to people about it a around the world. amy: and our condolences on the death of your sister jujust a fw weeks ago. >> are you crying. thank you. that was not the result of coronavirus, but yes, i was not able to go b back and thatat is another part of the times we are living in. is soour family history fascinating. your father is the first african-american envoy to italy
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in the 1950's. "blacks into write antiquity" and "color prprejudice." your connectction alall of these years to studying italy until now, you are locked down there for months. can you talk about the comparison of the lot down there viewing, youre country here, the united states? you joked about not -- not really joked, but talked about lemon as a cure. do you see comparisons to the president of the united states, president trump, telling people to inject themselves with disinfectants? >> i'm gladou asked t that question.. i would sayy that what i observd here, i heard a lot of aboutsion in the states italy's terrible resesponse to e
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coronavirus.. and i find thahat surprising becaususe it seems to me quite e oppoposite. the fifirst thing has toto do wh complianance. inin this country, you have aa single health authority a and it acted quickly and responsibly, distanciningsed social . as it t did so, , there wasn'n'a cacophony of noise from a president speaking differently from his advisors, differently from the governments of 50 states, from local s school boards, local mayors, different members of congress -- no. there was one policy. it was announced. it was explained very clearly to the populationn t that until we have a vaccinene, that we have exactly one weapon to deal with this emergency, and thatats
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socicial distancing. and thererefore, iff italians -f italians were told, if we italians wanant to save our country, we hahave to dodo it together. we arere all in the same boat. this is the only means available to save e the country come to se our families, to protect ouour commmmunities, to protectt ourselves. and as a result, there h has ben -- i have observed this even in the neighborhood where i am livingng -- that the compliance has been extraraordinary. there haven't been protests against it as in t these days.s. and i would say it is interesting that the local had an article in which it said this is the first time in 3000 years of rome's history that the population of romans has ever been obedient. i think that is because people -- t the government was very clclear. vans went through the
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neighbhborhoods. there were postersrs everywhere. the regulations were explained to everyone. severe in the states. but people were justifiably afraid. the government explained why this was a danger and people were afraid and they wanted to do something. i myself heard the e kinds of converersations s that people hd when they were waititing outsise grocery stores, wearing their masks, and they wewe conversingg wiwith eacach other and saying things like "i wowonder if this was the way it was during world war ii?" "is this maybe the way it was during the blitz in london, that everyone is in this together, is a terrible sacrifice, but this is what we have to do?" this was the attitude that i observeded. nonow that i'm able t to go oute again, the last few days, i have observed o on the streets again that this compliance is contntinuing, people have been well educated in n the dangers f
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the coronavirus. quite frankly, no one wants it to surge up a again. i would say that is the basis. the opposite is hapappening and has happened in the united states, where we had, as i s sa, this cacophony of fragmented authorities s all saying differt things. and an extraorordinarily cononfg , the cdc, thehe world model off the gold standndard for ememeeny response, , being underfunded ad almost invisisible throughout ts crisis. it has beeeen staggering, a country thatat has extraorordiny medicacal centers, , has this exextraordinary cdcdc, wonderful doctors, and extraorordinary tradition ofof scientific reseah and universities, likeke the ni, when this virus
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approachches, it has been unable to respond -- unwilling to respond in a scientific, coherent way with a single message to the american n publi. and so the publilic is confuses. amy: and yet the president also defunding the world health organization, an organization you have studied for years. ote the e world heaealth organization upon his return from chihina. can you tell us what he said, prprofessor snowden? world, china, has had a model respononse a and the world willll soon realize that t owes chinana a debt of gratitude for the long wiwindow of opportunity y provided by delalaying the further onset of this virus, which gave the world
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a chance to prepare to meet it. that is essentially whatat he sd on return. amy: d did he also talked about people having to change theirir hearts and minds t to deal with this global catastrophe? >> yes. that was the second thing he said. he said,d, we must b be prepare. people said, how do we prepare? he said the first thing that happens is we need to chchange r hearts andnd minds because thats the premise for everything else that we need to do. amy: professor frank snowden, have long studied epidemics. i was wondering if in their brief time we have together, that we do have the whole show, if you can go back in time to the bubonic plague and very briefly talk about the black death caused by a bacteria, then move on to smallpox, how it wiped out indigenous people from haiti to the united states, and
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its connection to this caused by virus -- its connection to colonization, colonialism. start withthhe black d death. >> absolutely. the blacack death reached westen europe in 1347. deborah got first in the city of messina in s sicily and spreaead through the wholole continent. until in weststern thepe come this tour to east is rathther different, butn western europope come the last 1734.as in messinana in so that makes, ununless i have y math wrong, 400 years in which it ravaged europe. ththis is a diseasese that is sd and are carried by
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rats. it is also o -- it can be spread through thee air i in the pulmoy form. it is extraordidinarily letetha. it is something like 50% of thosose who get the diseaease fm being bitten by fleas pararish. nowadays, we havave antibiotics. at thehe time of thehe black de, we did not. so 50% of those afflicted died. the e pneumonic version n of the didisease e is 100% lethal, even today,y, it is almost 100% leth. so t this was an extraordinariry dangerous disease. extremelyms are also powerful and painful and dehumanizing and patients die in agony. it strikes very quickly, , so downe can alslso be struck
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in public. so this becomes a terrifying public spectacle as people collapse in the streets. amy: professor snowden, the massiveuffered from inflammations of t the lymph nodes?s? >> yes. as the disease spreads from the lymph node, o the there's a massive inflammation and you have a swelling, let's say, in your thihigh were under your armpit or in n your neck tt is maybe the sizize of ann oran, a vevel orange under y your ski. it was said to be so painful -- people even jumped into in london intothe thamess to escape frorom the agony of this terrible pain ththey were suffering.g. but there are other symptoms as well. terrible fevers and also he
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lives nations -- hallucinations. neurorological effects as part of the dehumanizing parartf it. there are skskin discoloraratio. there are many symymptoms and it is entirely dreadful anand horrible diseasese. it still e exists, b by the way. there are e people who thinknk t is just t a medieveval disease. no. there are somemething like thouousand people around the wod who die of bubonic plague every year and a trickle in that uniteded states, thehe southwesn particicular, where ththere is a reservoir of it. amy: you knew a a woman in arira who have bubonic plague?e? inyes, i knew someone arizona who got the bubonic because of thee endemic disease of prairie dogs in the southwest of the united states. are t taken into
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areas where there p prairie dogs live, , they can have anan exche fleas can bethe brought back to a hotel or motel and that is what happened to o y friend. there were contaminated fleas in the room w where she s slept. therefore, she became -- she survived, that was a v victim of bubonic p plague under the 21st century. amy: professor snowden, you talked about the bubonic plague, the responses to it, being quarantined, the sanitary cordons commitment mass surveillance, and other forms of state power. i want to follow that through --se pandemics as you have you also are a scholar of fascism and the direction countries can go when such a crisis happens. >> yes. one of the things i t think, ifa 15th c century quarantine wewero century quarantine were to
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come back [indiscernible] ratherhe would find it a familiar landscape, , that is to sasay, the things you are sayay, were adopted and devised as sesf protection by t the italian city states that were at the center of the trade in the mediterranean, so repeatedly discououraged. yes, there was this teterrible disease and they dealt wiwith it by creating health magistrates -- we call them boards of health -- byby creating the first forms of personal prototective equipment, ppe, the masks, long gowns, social distancining, hospital systems for dealing with this one single disease, the measure of quarantine -- quarantine even being an italian word -- for 40 days because pepeople were locked dodown for0 days before theyey were release.
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they had sanitary cordons. l of thiss was part of the defensive measures that we see todaday and w we're -- were also present jenna spanish influenza. public health once a legacy of the bubonic plague. so while we look at these terrible events, we also need to remember that human beingsgs are inventive and there have been sober linings, the development ofof public health, the development of sciencece and scientific medicines, were a alo gifts of these terrible events. and indeed, i would say the modern state is also part of -- it was molded in part by the need for a centralized authority by part of our r life protective system. yes, t the bubonic plague affecd every area of society. it is nonot true to say pandemis all do the same things. there aree some ththings that he
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been repeated again and again. theng the bubonic plague, black death, the first years of it, there was this horrible surge of anti-semitism across europe and france in the ineland anand northern italy,, elsewhere. ththis was in a way the first holocausust when jews were persecuteded and put to death nt just in spontntaneous ways s by crowns, but the bureaucratic apparatuses ofof polititical authorities were used to torture jews intnto submission, to confessing c crimes that of coue they had n never committed, andd thenen they were judged and burd -- the holy roman empire did this -- and local authorities and leaders of city statates. so this was the systematic purging and killing of jews w wo are thought t to have or the cae against them was they were trying to put an to chchristian him and wereend poisoning the
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wells of chrhristians. ews killed. blame, scapegoating, we see ththat today with the coronanav. it is something that can happen, has repeatedly happen with t the idea that this is a chinese disease, a foreign disease we are told, and therefore shutting bordrders againsnst china men. we see chinese-americans, chchildren beingng attacked in schools, chinese-americans are afraid to ride alone on the new york subway, arranging to travel in groups. this is part of a long-term legacy of these diseases. and we see it in europe as well. china towns were deserted long before the coronavirus actually arrived. and the e right wing nationalist
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politicians of europe have been using that saying it has been imported by immigrants. so that is one of the false stories that is followed in the wake of this. so that is anotherer really feature ofcurring these pandemic diseases. they don't always lead to -- you are asking about did this always increase state power. intainly, the black death eastern europe, there were authoritararian countries and ty used these draconian violent measures stuckck yes, itit was t of their assertion o of powerer. indeed, this is one reasonon the dracononian measures appppeal because r rulers, not knonowingt to do, t this was -- this gave e impression that t they did, that they knew they were doing and they w were taking decisive measures. so it was thatat the source of measures -- so it was thought
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the source of measusures would e effective and certainly would be a displalay of power and resolution. we do see that happening. i lets take the spanish influenza of 1918. it is a good comparison to today because it was the time -- it is a respiratory disease. it was terribly m much more contagious than this and deadly, something like 100 million people are thought to have died around the world as a reresult f the spanish influenza, and people practiced social distancing, assemblies were banned, the wearing of masks was compulsory, spipitting in public ---- which was very popular at e time -- - was forbidden andnd te were heavy fines in places like new york city for doing so. -- it doesn't result measures were taken, but they wewere revokoked witthe emergen. leading not find this
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as, in some countries to a ofg-term reassertion draconian power by political authorities. withth covid-19, i t think thehe messagage is mixed. rememberer, anything aonone says abouou it, we hahave to rerember this is vevery early in this pandemic. and so we will h have to wait ad sesee with the final resesults l be, but wewe know already that hungary and pololand have witnessed rulers whwho use your-19 as a cover for rto -- for ulterior motitives fofor bebecong p prime minisister fore with the capacity to rule by decree, to sensor r and shut don ththe press, to put their political enemimies under arrest and so on. and those aren't public health measures. so i would say, yes, it has this potential but it is not necessarily something that we will see around the globe --
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although, there is that danger. we see countries where it clearly is leading to e exactly those results. amy: frank snowden, have to got a break. i want to ask you about smallpox, about haiti, about native americans.. frank snonowden, professor emeritus of history, medidicinet yale university and author of the book "epidemics and society: from the black death to the present." he is speaking to us from ththe lockdown in rome, italy. stay with us. ♪ [music break]
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amy: marcella bella. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the e quarante report. we a are spending the e hour wih
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profesessor frank snowdeden, profesessor emeritus of historyf medicine at yale university and author of the book "epidemics and society: from the black death to the present." he has devoted his life to looking at epidemics and teaching thousands of students. he is now in rome, italy, where he has been for months, coincidentally, with her for another project -- went there for another projecect i got caut in the lockdown, got covid-19, has recovered from that and we are like enough to have him as our guest for the hour. professor snowden, take us to hispaniola in 1492, a different version of history that we learned about cortez and pizarro peru to theas and aztecs of mexico. what happened in haiti and in the united states when it c came to smamallpox. columbus landed a at hispaniola, the first place.
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his ideaa -- the nanative population. there were a c couple of million inhabiting the island when he arrived. his i idea was ththat he would e able to reduce e them to slaver. he wrote about h how friendly ty were and how welcoming to him, hihis ships, and his manan. but i'm afraid the hospitalality wasn't reciprocacal. columbus' view was this was s a moneymymaking expedition n and e it w would be wondererful to hae the native popululation as slavs and cultivate the fields. theree was a differentntial mortality. this has come to be called the columbian exexchangege. that is to say that the native populations in the new world did not haveve the same hisistory of
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exposure to various diseaeases, and thereforore, not the same hd immunityty to them. the most dramatitic examplple is smallpox. measles was another. that is to s say that native americans had never experienced those d diseases. columbus and his men, on t the other hand, had, bececause it ws rife in europe. unintentionally, for the most part, the indian simply died off as they were exposed to these new diseases, smallpox and measles, and by 15 t to 20 years later, there were just a couple thousand left. it was at this time that in hispaniola, , there was the beginning -- this is one of the reasons for the beginning of the africacan slave trade.. the native populatation of the united states died from these diseases, so thee europeans
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turned instead to importingng pepeople fromm africa because ty shared many of the same bacterial historieses, therefor, immunities, and could survive being enslaved in the caribbean and d then in the new wororld, h america,a, and also in sououth america. so we get the beginning of the slave trade in part as a result to this differential immunity. this then on a wider scale with the new world, this was somethining that was devastatatd the native population when the spaniards, the british, the french c came. the nanative pulation contracted their diseases and was destroyed. this destroyed the inca and aztec empires.
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in fact, t they were so devavastated, they lost their religion. they thought the white man had much more powerful g gods than the did, so this droveve missionary and conversion experience as well and cleared the land for european settlers across the whole of the continent. this was a tremendous impact of smallpox disease. it was called virgin soil diseasase because the p populatn had never experirienced it and d no herd immunity. there is an irony that we can see -- let's go back to hispaniola that is now the island t that divided between haiti and thehe dominican republic, , and let's talk about haititi. let's rememberr that the french -- this i is now an island that had become extraordininarily
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enough to thinknk the wealthiest colony in the worlrld, the jewel of the french empire. and that is because of its sugar plantations, and the sugar was expoported to europe,e, the foundation of french wealth in this period. and d sles are continuing to be imported throughout the 18th century at b breakneck speed too cultivivate the fields of sugarcane. revolution,rench french power was neutralized. the attitude of the french revolutionaries toward slavevery was entirely different. and d you got this upsurge of te slaves with the grereatest slave revoltlt in histo led by the .ahaitian spapartacus and the colony was functionally opererating under his control ad wawas independent ofof france. poleon -- there was regime
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change, howevever. 179799. napopoleon comes to wewer. 1803, he is thinking he wishes toto put an end to this rebellin to restore the haitian rebels, slave them and retuturn to acne economic warehouse for frfrance. armada leda tremendous by a general who was m married o his sistster pauline. it was somethihing like 60,000 troops and sailors to the former cross the revolt. once again, see a a difference n community to disease that proved decisive. that is to say, that yellow fever was something to which the
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african slaves had a differenential immmmunity, whers europeans had no immunitity. they had noo history of experiencece with yellow f feve. so what happens is, thehe french soldiers begin to die at a rapid rate of a terriblele epidemic of yellow fever that sweeps through the caribbean and especially through send a man. the leader was very aware of this and took ---ntage of t this, luring thee only smalling small -- fighting small l guerrilla campaign's wedding for ththe summer monthso come and an upsurge of the disease, whihich happens and pretty soon the french commander rights to paris -- amy: i'm only interrupting because really have a minute.
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haiti becomes the first country born of the e slave rebellion, s you're so graphically describing with an alternative view of history that many may not have understood with the role of disease. but in this last minute that we have, i wanted to ask you about how pandemics end and what you think will happen now? >> i think there's not one answer to that. pandemics s are all differenentd they end in different ways. some dieie out because of f sany measureses that people takee against them so that we are not vulnerable in the industrial world to cholera or r typhoid fever that are spreaead through fecal group because we have sewers and safe drinking water.r. and other diseases lilike smallx becaususe of vaccinatioion, the development of a scientific tool.
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so it really depends -- some diseases are not very good candidates for vaccicines. i would say covid-1-19, i'm sure that we will develop a vaccinen, but i also fear that i it may nt be -- it won't be t the magic bullet that p people believe tht will putut this behind us becaue the sort of f features that you want for an n ideal candidate le d doesn'ta vaccine that have an animal reservoir so it cannot return to us. a vaccine is an ideal candidate if in natu it produces robust immunityty in the human body so people h having once had it are totally immune for life. that doesnsn't seeeem to be the case. i expect are going to have to learn to live with this disease. it is probably going to become an endemic disease, so we're
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going to have to adjust -- john amy: we have to leave it there. i want to thank you so much, professor frank snowden, professor emeritus of the history of medicine at yale university and author of the book "epidemics and society: from the black death to the present."
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thank you for joining us. from our studio in tokyo this is nhk "newsline". the annual assembly of the world health organization h has started and been heleld by videocooferencee amid the coronavirus pandemic. represesentatives of the 194 member countries are taking part in t the two-day online meeting. key issues include developing a vaccine for the coronavirus and international coordination in

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