05/26/20 05/26/20 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york city, the epicenter of the pandemic, this is democracy now! >> i fear genocide. i want to denounce this to the whole world. we have a government that does not c care about the lives of te indigenous. it is a crime against humanity that is being practiced here in my state, my region.

amy: as brazil sees more than 800 deaths in 24 hours, we look at covid19's devastating impact on brazil's indigenous people -- who are dying at double the rate of the rest of brazil. the right wing president joy bolsonaro, a close trump ally, called the virus "a little flu." we will speak with sebastiao salgado who wrote an open letter to bolsonaro that words the pandemic is in extreme threat to their very survival. then to new zealand, where prime -- which has largely succeeded in limiting the coronavirus, ununder the leleadership of f pe minister jacinda ardern.n. cooks ststay home and save live. together w we have k kept the vs undercontrol and done ouour part to keep the wiwidespread devastation wewe have seenen overseas.. at times it has been top.

ththank you for all of the sacrifices you have made over the past two months. amy: we will go to wellington, new zealand, to speak with an cupid to be allergistst advising the -- to speak with an epididemiologist. all of that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, demomocracynow.org, the quararae report. i'i'm amy goodmaman. the u.s. death toll frfrom the coronavirus ououtbreakak is fast approaching 100,00000. as lockdowns ease e across the united states and europe, the worlrld health organanization ns warning of a second peak of coronavirus cases. the who urged countries to step up testing and tracking. across the globe, the pandemic has killed 345,000 but that is believed to be an undercount. "the new york times" marked the staggering u.s. death toll by dedicating its entire front page

sunday to hundreds have the names seven americans who died from the virus. president trump spent parts of the memorial day weekend playing golf and using his twitter account to attack his political enemies, spread conspiracy theories, and amplify the messages of some of his racist followers. he retweeted multiple personal attacks on house leader nancy pelosi and former georgia gubernatorial candidate stacey abrams, attacking pelosi's physical appearance and abrams' weight. he also reposted a tweet referring to hillary clinton as a "skank." on memorial day, the president refused to wear a mask during events at arlington cemetery and fort mchenry. meanwhile, he shared a tweet mocking joe biden for wearing a mask while visiting a veterans memorial in delaware. on friday, north dakota's republican governor doug burgum made an emotional plea asking residents to avoid what he called m mask shaming.

>> if somebody wants to wear a mask, there should be no mask shaming. you should look at them and say, that person is wearing a mask because for them, there is addiditional r risk in their li. amy: trump is threatening to move august's republican convention from charlotte, north carolina, if the state's democratic governor roy cooper does not guarantntee he cacan ha packed arena. on monday, trump accused cooper of being "still in shutdown mood." the twitter attack came just two days after north carolina registered its largest daily increase in coronavirus cases. on friday, trump said all houses of worship are essential and threatened to o override governs who refused to lift restrictions on them if restrictions weren't lifted by the weekend. pres. trump: some governors have deemed liquor stores and abortion clinics as essential, but i've left out churches and

other houses of worship. it is not right. so i'm correcting this injustice and calling houses of worship essential. amy: president trurump, however, does not have the auauthority yo override state orders onon placs of w worship. in immmmigration news, a guatemalan man has become the second known p person to die of the coronavirus while in the custody of ice, immigration and customs enforcement. 34-year-old santiago baten-oxlag was imprisoned at the privately run stewart detention center in georgia before being transferred to a hospital. earlier this month, another ice prisoner, carlos ernesto escobar mejia of el salvador, died in a san diego hospital after becoming sick at the for-profit otay mesa detention center. on sunday, immigrant rights activists drove by the otay mesa jail to demand the release of prisoners. this is protester jennifer frost moreno. >> no more needless or senseless deaths because o of covid19 andi

suppressed bs lack of action to protect the -- of ice's lack of action to protect the prisoners. amy: at least 200 prisoners at ototay mesa a have reportedly contracted covid-19. nationwide, over 1200 people at ice jails have tested positive. in other immigration news, ice is moving ahead with plans to deport more hahaitian immigrants amid the pandemic, including people who have tested positive for covid-19. at least nine people with the vivirus are set to b be deported today amonong 78 other haitian nationals. one passenger on the deportation flight is death squad leader emmanuel "toto" constant, who founded a paramilitary group that has been accused of rape, torture, and the murder of thousands of supporters of the overthrown former president jean-bertrand aristide. haitian activists are calling on the department of homeland security to halt his deportation. president trump has imimposed nw travelel restrictions s on brazs the worlrld health organizationn has declared south america to be the new epicenter of the pandemic. most foreign nationals who have

been to brazil in the past 14 days will not be allowed to enter the u.s. the order, which goes into effect just before midnight tonight, doesn't apply to u.s. citizens, permanent residents, or their close relatives. on monday, brazil's daily death toll topped 800, surpassing the u.s. daily total of 620. brazil now has around 375,000 confirmecacases thehe corovivirus,econond ly to o e united stetes. over 23,000 deat h have en reported. brazilian president jair bolsonaro repeatedly dismissed concerns over the pandemic and clashed d with local leadersrs r their efforts to curb the spread of the virus. we will have more on brazil, and the devastation caused by the coronavirus in the amazon, after headlinenes with renowned photojournalist sebabastiao salgado. meanwhile, chilean president sebastian piñera warned the

country's healthcare system is "very close to the limit" as the number of confirmed coronavirus cases topped 74,000. argentina and peru have extended theieir lockdowns intoto june. in britain, prime minister boris johnson is facing resistance from some parents and teachers as he moves to reopen schools in a week. he also announced non-essential retail could resume business next month. meanwhile, his top adviser dominic cummings has come under intense fire after he broke britain's lockdown to visit his parents, while cummings and his wife had active cases of covid-19. russia recorded its highest daily death toll sunday with over 150 deaths but says the number of new cases appears to be declining. the world health organization hahas suspended testing of hydroxychloroquinene to treat covid-19 amid possible safety concerns. the anti-malarial drug has been repeatedly touted by president trump, who last week elicited shock and condemnation by

claiming he has been taking hydroxychloroquine preventively. a new study in "the lancet" that looked at over 96,000 hospitalized patients found those who were given hydroxychloroquine had a significantly higher death rate than those who did not. in p pakistan, 97 peoplele died friday when a pakistan international airlines jet crashed into a a crowded, popoor neighborhood of karachi while attempting to land at the city's airport. two people survived the crash. dozens of residents who lived near the crash site were transported to the hospital but no fatalities were reported on the ground. this is salah uddin, a resident of the karachi neighborhood where the plane crashed. it is a a very tragic incident that has occurred d on t the occasion. it is especially painful because people were coming home to celebrate eid with ththeir loved ones. in a way we can say the poor people have become m martyrs.

it is very sad. amy: "the washington post" i is reporting the trump admiministration recently discussesed conducting the first u.s. nuclelear test explosion since 1992.. onone official told d the papere test could help the u.s.s. in nuclear negogotiations with rusa and d china. but t daryl kimball of the arms cocontrol association wawarned e momove "would be the starting gn to an unprecededented nuclclears race."." lastst week, the trump administration announced it is withdrawing frfrom the open skis treaty, a a major international arms control deal.l. last year, trump a also withdrew from the inf trereaty, the intermediate-ranange nuclear forces treaty with russia. in hong kong, thousands took to the streets sunday to protest the new security laws proposed by china friday, which they say will further tighten beijing's grip on the semi-autonomous territory by cracking down on "subversion of state power" and "secessionist activities." police deployed tear gas, pepper spray, and water cannons against the pro-democracy protesters.

critics say the new law, which will bypass the hong kong legislature, would mark an end to any independence held by the region. the department of justice is reportededly investigating t the killing of ahmaud arbery as a hate crime. the arbery family attorney lee merritt shared the news monday. ahmaud arbery's case has drawn nationwide outrage after video emerged showing two white men chasing after the 25-year-old black man as he was jogging, then shooting him to death. no arrests were made until the video came to light earlier this -- two months later, earlier this month, even though the murder took place in february. a third white man who filmed the killing has also been arrested. democraticic presidedential candidate joe biden has apologizeded after facing backch for telling raradio hostst charlamagne tha god he "n'n't black" if he wasas unsure about

who to support in the upcoming election. biden made the comment on the popular show "the breakfast club" on friday. >> if yououave a problem figuringng out whethther you arr me or r trp and d you ain't. wantit has to do with i something for r my communinity. >> t take a look at my record,d, man.n. i i have a rececord that is secd to none. the naacp has endorsed me every time i have run. i mean, , come on. take a look at the record. amy: president biden apologized . a fedederal judge has struruck n that sought to prevent former a law in florida that sought to prevent former felons pick court fines and fees before they can register to vote. u.s. district court judge robert hinkle found that the measure amounted to an unconstitutional poll tax. republicans passed a law after a ballot measure was a approvevedn 20 restoring voting rights for former felons. and ststacey park milbern, a

beloved fifigure in the disabily justice movement, has died at the age of 33 of complications from surgery. she started the disability justice culture club in her home in oakland, california, as a place where queer, disabled black, indigenous and people of color could gather and organize. after the coronavirus pandemic hit, members of the group mobilized to make and distribute hand sanitizer, and provide mutual aid to the community. earlier this month, stacey park milbern spoke out against an effort by hospital and assisted living lobbying groups in california to receive immunity from any kind of liability during the pandemic. >> checks and balances on hospitals and nursing homes. otherwise, disabled people, especially people of color, are left alone in a system that already does not care about us. everything that we have right now in terms of community living and appropriate medical care --

advocates and racial justice advocates fought long and hard for it. amy: that was stacey park milbern speaking earlier this month. she died last week on her 33rd birthday. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the quarantine report. i'm amy goodman. when we come back, we lookok at covivid19's devastating impact n brazil's indigenous people are dying at double the rate of the rest of brazil. juan gonzalez and i will be speaking with sebastiao salgado, who wrote anan open letter to right-wingng president jair bolsonaro warning thee pandemic is an extreme threat to the very survival. stay with us. ♪ [music breaeak]

amy: t this is d democracy now!, demomocracynow.org, the quarante report. i am amy goodmanan in new york city, one of the epicenters of the pandemic, joined by my cohost juan gonzalez from his home in new brunswick, new jersey. nenew jersey iss t the state wia second-highest numumber ofof infections. amy. good morning, good day to all of our listeners and viewers s across the country and around the world. amy: we begin today y show with brazil, where the coronavirus is rapidly spreading with nearly 400,000 confirmed cases and almost 23,500 deaths, making brazil's outbreak the second

worsrst in the wororld after the united s states. on monday,rarazil's s day deatat toll surpaeded the.s. . fothe first ti w with 7 dedeat in 2424 hours. esesidentrumump s suspspded travel frobrazil tthe unit stat effffecve t tod just beforere midnight. despite this, right-wing president jair bolsonaro has continued to dismiss the severity of the virus, calling it a "little flu" and speaking -- spoke out against lockdowns imposed by governors and mayors. two health ministers have left his cabinet in recent weeks over disagreements over his handling of the pandemic. on sunday, just as brazil became the number two hotspot for covid-19 in the world, bolsonaro greeted anti-lockdown protesters outside the presidential palace. he wore and then removed a face mask as he mixed with his supporters.

>> are you ready? join the brasilia to people. the people who want brazizil to move forward. freedom above all else. amamy: this comes as the spreadf coronavirus is having a devastating brazil's indidigenos people, who are dying at double the rate of the rest of the population according to advocates. the articulation of indigenous peoples of brazil says there have been at least 980 confirmed cases and 125 deaths of indigenous people, indicating a mortality rate of 12.6% compared to 6.4 nationally. the city of manaus in brazil's amazon region has been hard-hit by the virus with nearly 1200 deaths. last week the mayor of manaus accused the government of jair bolsonaro of intentionally allowing indigenous communities to die of covid19.

genocide. i want to denounce this to the whole world. we have here a government that does not care about the lives of indigenous peoeople. it is a crcrime against humanity that is being practiced here in my state, here in my region. amy: well, for more, we go to paris, france, where we are joined by world-renowned brazilian photojournalist sebastiao salgado. he has also warned that ththe indigenous peoples in the amazon face genocide if the brarazilian governrnment does not take steps to protect them from the coronavirus outbtbreak. month, sebastiao salgado wrote an open letter to president jair bolsonaro warning warning the papandemic represens an extxtme threat t to their vey survival. the petition hasas gathered neay 300,000 signatures. sebastiao salgado has spent almost four decades documenting the amazon and its people. it is an honor to welcome you to

democracy now! thank you so much for joining us. in brazil l right nonow? >> well, as you know, this is a very difficult moment. we have a central power held by president bolsonaro. not acting in the normal way -- cororonavirus. the mayors of the big cities that are takaking care with peoe in quauarantine. mr. bolsonaro is working in the opposite way. amazingcreating destabilization of the country. with thery concerned indidigenous community, mostly e amazonian's. i just finished work where i spent seven years in n the amaz.

the indigenous have no immunologicall protetection n at theiseaeases that come out of the forest. everyone knows this. are not taking care- we these take care to protect enengine -- inindigenous or it l be a real gegenocidede. one coat you have said i in the past that you believe e the virs is a a product of thehe destrucn of t the planets envirironment. cod you elaborate on thahat? >> what was the q question? juan: in the past you have said the coronavirus pandedemic is in part a proroduct at the destruction of the environment .roundnd the planet >> we arare destroyiying every

portion of the ecosystem too protect -- the protector ofof ts planet. in theputting diseases it is a difficult momement. prprobably a t that is happening arouound the world, bring us to mine more e about environment. come back to our planet, to -- thahat we can live in peace with our planet is what happens everywhere around the world. amy: let me ask you -- i wantntd have beenenhe chief indigenous vilillage in n braz's amazon rain fororest that i''m e you know well where the

coronavirurus infected peoeople despite a l lockdown to alll outside visitors. at least 16 ouout of the villa's 106 pepeople have e tested posie for covid-19. the virus likely came up the rio negro river r from manau, whichs -- manaus, which is five hours away. this is village chief waldemir da silva. treacherous. is theyey came quietly as it carrid on the wind. we started getting ill and thought it was a bad cold but people got worse, even after taking medicine. we managed to treat the ililess in a careful way. amy: if you could talk, sebastiao sasalgado, about how e indigenous people are now dealing and how the government is dealing with themem? i mean, of this battle going on in manaus with the mayayor callg

the president stupid. if you can talk about the history of thehe way indigenous pepeople arere dealt with in the amazonon? s scientists calcululated the population of amazoninian -- braziliann amazonian ecosystste, wewe had about 5 million peoplpe livingng there. when the diseases come from outside, a lot of indigenous disappppear. today we have just a little more than 300,000 indigenous living in amazonian. a lot of f them are close as manaus, san gabriel. -- quiteigenous

isolated t the tribes. all brazilian amazonian's who have a little more than 100 completely isolated. you see what has happened now, -- e eliminating thehe institutions, weakening the institution n that p protected e amazonian's ecosystem. budget,out most of the the national foundationn, and what happens? after a while, the amazonian byrted to be invaded loggers, golddiggers, religious groups.

more than 2000 g golddiggers invading thehe territory. caring the people are disease inside. we want the president of brazil to create a barrier, sanitary barrier, people coming inside the indigenous teterritory inin ororder to ptect t these tribes- they will disappear. they have no antibody to protect themselves ainst the deases. , whatsebastiao salgado does it mean to have a a presidt like d dryer bolsonanaro -- jair bolsonaro who basicallyly ridicucules science, does not py attention to his ownwn health, public health officials?

very similar to some of the stuff happening here in the uniteded stetes wi preresident trump, but even worse. what does itit mean not o only r the amazon and the indigenous popopulation, but for alll brazilians? >> the big problem is president bolsonaro. he is desoying brazazilian inststitutionsns. very good institutions, cucultural healthh instititutions, the prototectiof indigenous territory. rightistextremely president. he is destroying institutions. he is tried to make the indigenous that live in the territorieies, hunters and gatherers, they want -- it is incredible. he is not respecting these territitories protected by law.

we are living a very y difficult moment in n brazil. amy: i am wondering if you could talk, sebastiao salgado, on the attacks o on the truth, both h m the president of brazil -- jair bobolsonaro, who is a very close ally of the president of the united d dates president trump - both of them diminish to the end this coronavirus, the president of brazil calling it a little flu and president trump saying it would come to nothing. 15 caseses and then zero, as opposed to what so many of the scientific advisors around him were telling him. workyou are famous in your for photographing, documenting the trututh of people on t the groundnd all over the world, particularly workers, indigenous people. your famous book "migrations,

,"midity, and transition "workers: an archaeology of the industrial age, gold," and "terra: struggle of the landless." can you talk about this phenomenon that we see -- if you can call lies that. the thousands of lies all by these m men thahat clearly takee lives, particularly of the most vulnerable?? havave - -- should take i indonesia. these c countrieses takake caree population. theyhad a qrantine anand - - out from the quarantine

s exactlththese oo presidenentshat t doot carare about the people. they care aboutoney. q question, ---he your nation, your coununtry. you'rere not areresident just fr ththe profit. and d this is a b big proroblemt happens. the united statates has a big nunumber of deaths by coronavir. 100,000 expected to cross deaths i in the uniteded states. in brazil because the figures are not good, m more than 20,000 people becauause the ones that e -- thet the hospitatals peopople who die in the slums, people in the very poor areas,

we don't know.. it i is calculated d we are liky to have a minimum nine times more cases i in deaths in a bril ththan the official figures present. , youn: s sebastitiao salgado mention ththe thousands ofof golddiggerers that are invading the amamazon, but ere e are also major multinational companies, major brbrazilian companinies tt are also benenefiting from these lilicies of j or r bolsonaro. cocould you ta aboutut who somof these e companies arere so that pepeople know? bututl, the companieses, yes, you sesee, bolsonaro was elelecd by business in brazil and by the groups.n officicials -- he opened the amazonian rritory for farmers, for

loggggers, for golddiggersrs. a autke a lot last yearar -- july/august. this youou will be worse.. .e are destroyoyg the forest --he farmers are growing thee compapanies are t there, tg toto get what t they can. -- mr. big problem voters,o wanted to have giving amazon for people who want to invade. hundndreds of thousands are invading. as i said, all the golddiggers thann the tererritory, more 22,000, but t to have loggerss going insiside everywhere,

destroyiying the fesest eveverywhere, is a a genal problem. it is nonot just specific of big companies. there also -- the biggest problem is the prpresident. abobout -- can talklk ththis reuteters report that s s the brazilianan environonment minister called on the government to push through further deregulation of enenvironmenent a policy while people are disistracted by the coronavirus. inin a v video, ththe supreme ct ordered released of the videoeof the ministers meeting surfaced inin a investigation whether president bolsonaro interfered in appointing leaders of the federal l policece for personal gain. duringng the meeting, otheher ministers spoke saying his remarks proved bolsonaro'ss government is systematatically seseeking to dismantle environmtall proroteions.

have enough ine brbril to have an i impeachmentf this preresident. evidencece saying ministerers ae doing ang -- thth are way to takee powerer propositition to have thpopowern their hands. they are applying fofor 2 -- couldn't talklk. live in a a difficult momentt because this big g problem of coronavirus,s, p put in place, w we havave elections in a momonth lilike this. theyey're taking profofit for make more in order to large their power. the example yoyou just gave a fw minutetes ago, the minisisteof environmnment, duduring the proposition that just in t this c coronavirus.

all the destrtruction of the syststem that protects thth indigenous communityhahat iss cocontacting environment, prototecting the d destruction f the rainin forest s stop he trio destroy all of this now in ororr destatabilizationon in brazil. brazilil has a a fantastic systf law. the national foundation of indigenous is an amazing institution. -- now is not acting morore for the indigenous.. they are acting fofor the farme. , you : sebastiao salgado

have said,d, clearly, the key re that farmers are playing,g, bral is a bigig exporter of agricultural p produs. what kind ofof pressure e could governments around the world do youise on brazil? support sanctions against a bolsonaro government to make them take the necessary steps tt protecect indinous communinitie? >> i believe t the politicalal sanctions,s, political pressure- resilience are sensitive for outstside the council. brazil is a big exporter. i believe we can n do pressure. -- brbraziliano doo goodss because r resilience nee- polititical pressure in mpanies - -- t thatin brazil

they take cacare of thee envivironment. respect the minimimum i inot happening now. is the political l and economical. amy: can you t talk abobout an in estate madeer up of 3000 people. he died of covid19 earlier this month. this is local indigenous wearing a mask that says "indigenous lives matter." >> here we still have this dream of quality education and health because we have not yet been provided with assistance. his death is also representative

of what is lacking, a lack of health care, of what is missing those indndigenous who live in e city. amy: if you could talk about this area manaus talk about what isis happened to the people as well and what you are calling for inin this letter signed by 300,000 people that hasas gottea tremendous amount of attention among the people w who have sigd madonna,ah winfrey and streep,mpbell, memeryl ad pitt, a and oerers? wer h hope this letter --

are apapplying for humanitarian in a amazoniaat -- indigenous that were never r contacted. the cororonavirus multiplied vey fast. if they coincide these communities -- if they go inside these communities -- we are applied to protect more isolated toops to create a barrier

take out the invaderers and cree a barrier, not allowow the peope inside thehe territory for a whe to protect this popupution. this petition, this letter, the reply was very, very goodod. we have alall brazilian press. newspapers that gave the notice. m meetingsue to have grouphe judges, with the at the judicial system in brazil to see if we can create this humanitarian protectionn for the indigegenous. amy: finally, sebastiao salgado, if you could comment more broadly on the future brazil? you fled brazil in 196969. you fled the military dictatorship. you went to paris. if you can talk about the future brazil and also your own time now, just like we here are

shelteriring in place in the united states, you, have, too. i saw you years ago when we had an amazing conversation in mexico, a public conversation with galliano as well. you were talking about your son, but you're living with your son with down syndrome. you have written about that as well. that is a lot of f questions there. the fututure of brazil to what you're doioing now. b brazil --s see, amamy, in brazil, we had more than 9 9% of brazilian populatation that s rural. now we mus be more t than 90%% urban. 5, sixw decadeses, 4, decades maximum, we made e what 300 40n the united states,s, or yeaears to organize. -- we a lot o of problemem

had a dictarshipp and a brazizi. totoday we h have a democratic system. we are an evolutution. it is nonot easy the thingngs tt have happened in brazizil. the fit popupulation in n the w, brazil is an- importanant country. -- now with hope that mr. bolsonaro, , just t tempora. that this is just a step in our evolutioion,hat we can b becomea socially economic -- amy: and finallyly, you're livig in paris right now, sheltering in place like we are. you spenending more time with hr son. >> y yes, i live here.e.

1969.e to paris i i a phdhd inre to prepare economomics. we stay hehere during ththe dictatorshipip. we have a down syndrome child born here, thahat grows herere. i i aveled thehe world. wewe work a lot in brazil. the farmer my parents,s, we an internrnational park. ththe forest was completely destroyed. we andnd my wife, we p planted e than 2.7.7illion trees. wewe keep goining in brazil d le in france because ofof my profession..

on the keep w working environment in brazil. amy: we want to thank you so much for being with us, sebastiao salgado, world-renowned brazilian photojournalist. he has spent almost four decades documenting the amazon and the people who live e there. he has been a unicef goodwill ambassador since 2001 and travel to more than 100 countries for his photojournalism, some of which has been compiled in his books, including "migrations: humanity in transition," "workers: an archaeology of the industrial age," "gold and "terra: struggle of the landless." we will also lead to a conversation i had sebastiao salgado with and thehe great beg winene writer galliano who has since passed.

when we come back, we go to new zealand as the u.s. deals s with the greatest catastrtrophe in history. we look back at what of the earliest lockdowns that has largely succeeded in eliminating thee coronavirus. it happened in new zealand under the leadership of prime minister jacinda ardern. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the quarantine report. with juanoodman gonzalez as we turn to new zealand, which impmplementnted e of the earliest lock downs in response t to the pandndemic, ad has largely succeeded in eliminating the coronavirus after the number of ininfections peaked in april. there was just a single confirmed covid-1919 case repord in new zealand l last week. this comes as a 5.8 magnitude

earthquake struck the cacapital wellington monday just a as prie minister jacinda a ardern was in the middddle of a live tv interview. >> we are getting a bit of an earthquake. quite a decent shaker. if you see things moving behind me. the beehive moves a little moree than most. yep, it has justst stopped. amy: starting last week, pririme minister ardern began transitioning new zealand, a pacific nation that is home to momore than 5 million people, fm lockdown level 3 to level 2, allowing most shops, restaurants, schools, and workplaces to reopen. some of the country's success has been attributed to ardern's leadership, trust in science, and clear communication during the crisis. instead of launching a war, she urged people t to "unite against covid-19" and ofoften calls thte country "our team of five million." in march, after putting her 21-month-old daughter to bed, ardern hosted a facebook live

session from her couch as new zealanders submitted questions. casual attire. it c can be messy busineness pug toddlers to that. some of the key things that i have been asked about, things like can we go for a walk? penny, you have four children, can you walk with all of them are just take two at a time? you can walk with the people you will be with for the next month, the people you're living with. you can walk with them. they're the people that will be in your life consistently over this period of time and you can walklk with them. it when you are walking and y yu passed by someone, keep your distance. two meters between everyone. doioing a lot of long distance waving while we are out and ababout. amy: that was jacinda ardern in march. on sunday, she thanked her nation for staying home during

the covid-19 pandemimic to break the chain of transmimission and save liv.. >> thahank y you for s staying e and savingng lives. togetherer, weave kept the virus ununder control and p played our rt to avoid the widespread devastatation we have seseen overseas. but i know atat t times it has n really tough, so thank you foror all of thehe sacrifices s you he mamade or the papast few monont. from the children who missed out precious time w with her grgrandparentso o the famamilieo hahave had to sasay goodbye to d ones, , new zealanders have givn up a lot to keep e each other safe. amy:y: well, foror more, we go o wellington, new zealand, where we are joined by dr. michael baker, professor of public health at the university of otago. he is an epidemiologist and a member of the new zealand ministry of health's technical advisory group, and he has been advising prime minister ardern on the response to covid19. welcome to democracy now! thank you for staying up so late. i'm holding the front page of -- - the york times"

wholole front page lists huhunds and hundreds of names. we have under 5% of the population, but more than one quarter of the debts in the world. can you talk about what new zealand can teach, not only the united states, brazil, and far more populous countries, but what you recognized early o on n what you did, dr. baker? >> greetings from wellingtonon. it is a great pleleasure toto bn your program. i think when you look a across e globe and how difffferent countrtries have responded, i think one of the main messages is to respond decisively anand have t that combinationn of good scscnce and gogood l leadership. and coununtries that h have succeeded have done this. the case o of new z zealand, wih the same pandemic plan as many otheher countries, , which was a good plan but it was f for a differenent virusus, it was f fr influenza.

anand by late februauary, we realized this wawas more like a sars virus so we h had to change our direction very rapidly. i thinkk across the western woworld, there was this strange ,dea of complacency exceptionalism, , that somehow e virus might behave partly when it hit the western world -- differently when it hit the western world than in asia. but when we look to asia for and,les of a good approach for example, the wayay chihi and other asian countries were maintaining it, we realized limitation was possible so we changed direction very quickly. dr. bakerer, this whole issue in mos of the advanced west the focus has been on flatten the c curve or mititigag e virus. coululd you talk about that discussion thahat wentnt on in e early days about trying to eliminate it completely?

>> that is exactctly right. the approach for dealing with influenza p pandemic is a mitigation one.. you cannot contain it. overally, the wavell wash you in the strategy is all about flattetening the curve, , reducg domain on the hehealth care sysm and not overwhelming it,t, tryig to protect the most vulnerable. we are very famililiar with thoe approaches. bubut when w we look at the sucs of maiainland china and also was asked particular, toto preventing a virus, stoppig it at the bororders and a also g contact tracicing to stamp out cases, we changed -- itit quick. you do things in a different order. at it earlyly things on, we had no fatalilities aroud go o for thisarch,

elimination apppproach. put the entire country and intends lockdown for a bebetter part of six w weeks. -- an intends lockckdown for better part of six weeks. it stamped out the transmission because the whole country was effectively at home in quarantine.. do a lot of testing, a lot of contact tracing and also improve our quarantine. the thirird thing he did is basically just explained to the whole country when physical distancing was all about. because we had never experienced a pandemic before. the end of that, pretty harsh virusch, very little being transmitted in new zealand. so we are now coming out of lockdown by degrees.

it is very different from coming out of lockdown overseas because we're trying to come down into a virus-free new zealand. the evidence now, based on a we'remount of testing, just getting the very tail end of some of the outbreaks. youou talk about someme of t the particularitities of nw zealand, number one, of being an island natation to whadedegree that helped in your being able to stamp out thehe virus? and also, ththe role of yoyour healalth care system, to what degree that t made it easier or more difficult to deal with thte papandemic? island, the borders, that is the number one thing you have to do. but some countries with huge borders like mainland china, vivietnam, m mongolia, appear te

succeeding very well with the same elimination approach. itit doesn't have to o be an is. taken a more extreme approach. they have excluded the virus. be annot a necessity too islandnd. the secocond point about the health care system, i think it helps to have a socialized health system because, obviously , , can do testing more easily, manager hospitatals more efeffectively. morenage your hospitals effectively. i think that is helped australia and new zealand and some asian countries that have that type of health care system. amy: can you talk about what you see the u.s. has done wrong? it is this downey, the richest country in the world, is the epicenenter of this pandndemic. if you can also talk about the racial disparities that we have

seen, particularly african-americans, farm greater death toll -- far greater death toll than their population in be,united states should very disproportionate. what hapappened in new zealand with the indigenous population, with low income new zealanders -- most importantly,y,hat do you think the u.s.s. is doing wrong? >> firsrstly, looking at the inequality, unfortunately, that is a feature of pandemics in generaral is they m magnify socl inequality. , oneeur current governmnment of the cenentral driving concers is thehe health care system anan with the p pandemic c response. so equity y has been a major driverer. it was also one of the reasons we have put a huge amount of resources into the elimination approach. the most p pro-equity ththing wn

do is keep the virus out, and that is ththe situation now. when i look at t the united states, obviously i'm very it is anted because tragic situation and usually leadershipip will look t to thee and, look to the u.k. unfortunately, i think there was inevere error of judgment assisting the pandemic b because therere was a period when it was containable but the advice was not toto shut borders and thehee was s a complacent attitude. so i i think t that is the numbr onone problem is s our major heh agencies i in the e western word have really let us dowown. i think governments as well. because this was s an entirely preventable global catastropoph. i think that is ththe number one rick firemanan is s science and leadership has to work together and recognize t these threats ad

manage them accordingly. you t talk about the issue of ththe legitimacy of leadership in terms of b being ablele to effectuate these kinds ofof sevevere oror stringent po? obviously in china, there to pull out the militaryy to completelyly isolate wuhan but n new zealand, did not really have to deal witith any kind of major enforcrcemenp,er se. could you talk about that? >> really empathetic leadership asas we havave seen in new zeald help. australilia has got a different stella government and they also succeeded. -- different style of govevernmt and they a also succeeded. early, they acted very and did not need lockdown. that was because they had a really strong public health

agency and they started managing the borders in january. amy: michael baker, we have to leave it there but we will continue with a post-show and post it ononline at democracynow.org. [captioning made p p