♪ amy: from new york, this is democracy now! about these stories fact that these elections wilill be fraudulent, they will be fixed, they will be rigged. that probably will happen. amy: as president trump floats the idea of delaying the november election, we look at many of the questions surrounding this year's contest.

will an election even happen? will president trump accept the results if he loses? will mass disenfranchisement help trump win? we will speak with a member of a bipartisan group who gamed out what a contested november election might look like. then to morocco. we will speak to award-winning journalist and human rights activist omar radi, who was arrested last week on what press freedom advocates call retaliatory charges. his phonone was hacked thing -- using pegasus spyware. >> the least i wanted from the government is to launch an investigation about what was happening. the next day i have been attacked and a grasseded and accused ofreason a and many other insulults that tried to discreredit me with the public opinion. amy: all that and more, coming up.

welcome to democracycy now, democracynow.o.org, the quarante report. i'm amy goododman. the u.u.s. death t toll from the coronavirus pandemic has topped 155,000 as the number of people hospitalized with covid-19 soared in july by nearly 50%. on sunday, top white house coronavirus adviser deborah birx appeared on cnn and warned the country has entered a new phase in its fight against the pandemic. >> what we are seeing today is different from march and april. it is extraordinarily widespreread. it is into the rural as equal urban areas. area, y youive in a a rural aree not immune or protected frm this virus. amy: over the weekend, californrnia became the first state to record more than 500,000 confirmed covid-19 cases. california reported 219 deaths

on friday, a new single day high. meanwhile the covid-19 death toll at san quentin state prison has reached 20. this comes as more than 7,000 people in south california have been forced to flee their homems due to a massive wildfirire east of los angeles. a new report in vaninity fair rereveals a a white house taskse led by jared kushner abandndonea nationwide coronavirus testing plan in the spring for political reasons. one public health exexpert in frequent contact with the white house's official coronavirus task force said quote, the political folks believed that because it was going to be relegated to democratic states, that they could blame those governors, and that would be an effective e political strategy. in news from capitol hill, negotiations over the next coronavirus stimulus bill remain at a standstill. republicans are refusing to support renewing a program to give unemployed workers an additional $600 in benefits. the enhanced benefit expired on friday. in other news from washington,

democratic congressmember raul grijalva has tested positive for covid-19 just days after he chaired a meeting attended by republican congressmember louie gohmert, who refused to wear a mask and later tested positive . in a statement grijalva said quote, while i cannot blame anyone directly for this, this week has shown that there are some members of congress who fail to take this crisis seriously. meanwhile cnn is reporting the republicans are considering barring journalists for the first time from attending the upcoming scaled-down republican national convention, citing health c concerns. the globobal deathth toll from e cororonavirus s is approaching 700,000 with nearly 18 million confirmed cases as the pandemic continues to accelerate. during the month of july, more than 8 million people e tested positive, almost as many as in the fifirst six months of the pandemic combined. the world health organization reports cases are now doubling

every six weeks.s. inin india the death toll hass topped 38,8,000, the fifth hight in the world, surpassing italy. one of india's top officials, homeme affairs mininister amit , has been hospitalized after tetesting positive. the philippines reported over 5,000 new coronavirus infections sunday, its largest single-day increase on record, bringing its total confirmed cases to over 100,000. authoritarian president rodrigo duterte announced he is reimposing a stricter lockdown around the capital manila, as medical workers around the country warned the healthcare system could collapse. in australia, a state of disaster has been declared in victoria which has instituted a nightly curfew to fight the outbreak. the coronavirus is still surging in south africa, where over 500,000 have now tested positive for the virus. medical workers say the surge in cases has brought south africa's healthcare system close to collapse. coronavirus has

been getting deeper every day. it's failing. it was not reaeady for this vir. in arizona, border patrol officers raided the medical camp of humanitarian group no more deaths friday, detaining 30 migrants. this was the second such raid in just two days. the camp provides water, food and medical attention to refugees crossing into the u.s. through the scorching sonoran desert. last week, no more deaths published documents revealing the border patrol union, a pro-trump and anti-immigrant extremist group, had instigated a 2017 raid of the same camp. volunteers say their phones were confiscated and that border agents disconnected power to the property's onlyly water s sourc. in a 5-4 ruling, the supreme coururt said friday presidentt trump can moveve ahead with building his u.s.-memexico bordr wall, using $2.5 billion in military funds, while the legal battle to stop the construction continues.

the sierra club and other groups argue trump circumvented congress to divert the funds and that the border r wall will caue irrepararable enviroronmentall damagege. in more immigration news, the trump admiministration will stat charging fees to apply for asylum. this is a penalty against asylum applicants, an anonymous asylum officer told buzzfeed news. the u.s. will charge $50 for asylum petitions, and joins fiji, iran and australia as the only countries that require pepeople to pay for seeking legl refuge. citizenship and immigration services will also hike up the cost of other immigration services, including an 80% incrcrease in the fee for applpg fofor u.s. citizenship. in afghahanistan, at l least 29 peoplele have been killed d and0 others wounded after gunmemen raided a jaiail sunday night in jalalabad, in nangarhar prprovince. the islamic state claimed responsibility for the attack, which comes a day after one of its senior commanders was killed

by afghan forceses in the e same reregion. in zimbabwe, author tsitsi dangarembga, a bookeker prize nominee, was released on bail saturday, alongside several others, after being arrested for holding anti-government protests. authorities had banned a friday protest calling for an end to government corruption and a worsening economic crisis, but dangarembga still staged a two-person action, for which she was arrested. a lawyer a and spokesperson fild her ararrest. oming at us and ththey are armed. they are advdvancing toward us r ththe protest. amy: rights groups are w warning the government of prpresident emmerson mnanangagwa is intensifying its c crackdown on crititical voices, compaparing s tactics to former strongman leader p president robert mugab, who was ousted in 2017.

hong k kong has poststponed legislslative elections, citing the pandemic, as it intensifies its crackdown on opposition leaders and critics. a dozen pro-democracy candidates were blocked from running, including prominent activist joshua wong. this comes as hong kong has issued arrest warrants for at least six pro-democracy figures under its new national security law, including a u.s. citizen, samuel chu, who works at the d.c.-based hong kong democracy council and lives in the united states. microsoft says it is in talks to acquire u.s. operations for the popular app tiktok, after trump said he would ban the chinese-owned video-sharing platform. reuters is reporting trump told microsoft it has 45 days to close the deal, after he previously said he opposed the idea. this comes amid ongoing tensions between the u.s. andnd china ovr the coronavirus, trade, and the situation in hong kong. tiktok says it has 100 million users in the u.s. and does not share its information with the chinese government.

prpresident trump has inststalla nominee fofor a top pentagon job in another, nearly identntical, position after the senatate abruptly canceled d his heararig last thursday when it became clear they didn't have enough votes to confirm him. retired general and fox news contributor anthony tata, trump's pick to be the next undersecretary of defense for policy, will now instead be performing the duties of the deputy undersecretary of defense for policy, a temporary position that does not require senate confirmation. tata has come under bipartisan fire for promoting islamophobic conspiracy theories, which included calling former president barack obama a terrorist leader; calling islam the quote most oppressive violent religion i know of; as well as pushing a conspiracy theory that former cia director john brennan ordered the assassination of trump in 2018, via a coded tweet. a federal appeals s court overturned the death penalty sentenence of dzdzhokhar tsarna, who was convicted of the 2013 boston marathon bombings, after the court determined the judge in his case did not thoroughly

review jury members for bias. tsarnaev will now have a new trial to determine his penalty. the attack killed three people and injured hundreds of f other. an active duduty u.s. . army sergeaeant has been identified s the man who killed anti-racist protester garrett foster in austin, texas, last weekend. daniel perry said he acted in self-defense when he opened fire on foster, after driving his car into a crowd, but eye witnesses have challenged this account. in june, perry retweeted a post by president trump referring to protesters as anarchists and lowlifes, adding the comment, quote, send them to texas we will show them why we say don't mess with texas. meanwhile in portland, anti-racist and anti-police brutality protests continued this weekend, now entering their third month, as federal agents drew down their presence last week after a widely-condemned violent crackdown on the monstratorors. meanwhile in washington,n, d.c., the homeland security y official

whosofoffice put t together intelllligence reports o on prprotesters and journrnalists covering protests in p portland, has reportedly been removed from his post. brian murphy wasas reassigned to an administrative role within the agency on friday. the intelligence reports compiled information on two journalists who published leaked documents about dhs's tactics to repress anti-racist protesters, as well as s some of the prprotesters. in michigan, a court of appeals freed a 15-year-old student friday who had been locked up since mid-may for not doing her online schoolwork, pending an appeal of her case. students have rallied behind the teen, known simply as grace to protect her identity, saying she was unfairly targeted because she is blalack. and in new york city, sex workers and d their allies toooo the streets satuturday for the black sex worker liberation march and vigil. among protesters' demands were the decriminalization of sex work and a repeal of the so-called walking while trans ban, an anti-loitering and anti-sex work law that activists and rights groups say is

disproportionately used to attack trans people. >> this is the only work that has allowed me to regain agency over a body i wawataught to o he my whole life. amy: and those are somome of the headlines. this is democracy now, democracynow.org, the quarantine report. i'm amy goodman. white house chchief of staff mak meadows said sunday the november presidentialal election will proceed asas scheduled, after president trump faceced bipartin outrage last weeeek for susuggeg delaying the electction. republican majority leaderer mih mcconnell, senator l lindsay graham and even n steven calabri of the arch-consnservative federalilist society spoke outut against the president after trump tweeted thursday quote with universal mail-in voting not absentee voting, which is good, 2020 will be the most inaccurate & fraudulent election in history. it will be a great embarrassment to the usa. delay the election until people can properly, securely and safely vote???

president trump has not taken back those comments. they came as nearly all polls project trump will lose against joe biden in november. mark meadows backed off trump's claim on cbs's face of the nation sunday, saying quote we're going to hold an election on november 3, and the president is going to win. it's not the first time president trump has suggested he'd oppose the election process. he was asked about except the election results during an interview with chris wallace on fox news. >> i think mail-in voting is going to rig g the election. >> are you suggesting you will not accecept the results? >> i have to see. >> can you give a direct actioin -- answer? >> i have to see. amy:y: for more, we'rere joinedy historian nils gililman, vice president of programs at the berggruen institute.e. and cofounder ofof the transitin

integrity project which organized a bipartisan group of experts to game out what a contested november election might look like. welcome to democracynow. can you respond to president trump's tweet which he has not taken back no matter r what mark meadows says? he's talking about the illegitimacy of mail-in votes and he's talking about delaying the novembmber election. this is something you''ve been talking about for a long time. amy: he tweets -- >> he tweets a lot o of thingsg. not clear how seriously we should take e any of it. this one got a lot of bipapartin pushback, which is good. what's striking is how many of his tweets don't get a partisan or at leleast republican pushbh. are he says mail-in ballots going to be fraudulent, there's no pushback against that. i think that tells you where the limits are of what they are

willing g to tolerate from the president. groupalk about what your integritytransition project. >> last month we ran a series of wargames, which are basisically simulalations of possible outcos of the aftermath of the election. between november 3 and inauguration day on january 20. we looked at four different scenarios. bibiden winning in a landslide, trump winning in a landslide and if the election was ambiguous. we had people play different roles. thisis was a bipartisan group tt included former them a credit resisidential chief of s staff n podesta, former republican vice

presidential chief of staff bill kristol. formerer democratic governor jennifer grant. it was a bipartisan group. we tried to figure out what could potentially go wrong between election day and inauguration day. the results were p pretty inten. in every scenario except the one where biden wins in a landslide, wind up with severe electoral prop -- contestation, protests in the strtreets, crazy stories happening on social media and the challenges went down toto inauguration dayay. the contestation was without precedent. these fourough scenarios. >> one scenario was biden wins pretty big. simulating the games the day after the election. things thatmulate could go wrong the day of the

election. we were focused on what could happen after the election. the united states has a very wherel electoral system people don't t take office immediately after the election. there's 10 or 11 weeks between election day and inauguration day when ththe incumbenent government is still in power. thatat was one of the e things t was reallyly striking. trtrump will still control the levers of powewer even if he los the election for 10 or 11 more weeks and this allows him to get up to all sorts of mischief inin terms of deploying the department of f justice, the pot office, department of homeland sesecurity in wayshahat can disrupt the trtransition procec. talk about the r role of the swing states like michigan and what role they can play. >> there is a series of swing

states, michigan, north carolina and wisconsinin where you have a situation where there's split government. you have a democratic governor and a republican legislature. because of the way in which election certification works, there is a possibility to do all sorts of corrupt things during that period. andvotes get c counted typically the state legislature has s to certify that one side e the election and then the governor sends -- won the election and thehen the governor sendnds e votes to t the electol college and the electoral college has to certify the results in early januauary. because there is this split in swing states between the repupublican legislature and democratic governor, you could end up with a situation where the vote happens one way, the republican legislature certifies it another way, and the democratic governor decides to

send in a third slate of electorates. you could end up with competing this inf electors in fact, there's a precedent for this. this exactly is what happened during the contested election of 1876. -- you hadtates then threree states that sent competg slates of electors to the electoral college. then it's up to congress to decide which competing slates of electors they are going to certify as being legitimate and counting for the purposes of selecting the next president. amy: if it was clear that trump lost the electioion, could the military or secrcret service wak hihim out ofof offffice? t to leave thes white house physically and everybody agreeses that he's lo, at that popoint he is effectivey just a trespasser in the white house and presumably the secret service would remove him.

the real question we have to worry about is it's not totally clear and everyone agrees other than trump that he lost. thatot too worried situation would resolve itself. if there are competing narratives that large numbers of americans believe about who actually won the election. that's unfortunately verery possible especially given how polarized the electorate is in the competing narratives about the kinds of fraud that can take place around the election. trump is already p promoting the notion of fraud. he will say he wonon if he wins despite the fraud. if he loses, he will say he lost because of the fraud. you had the clip at the top of the hour where he says exactly that. reate a he justst has to plausisible rrrrative that he didn't lose. what would that do? >> if he creates a plausible narrative, and by that i mean something that gets picked up on social media and parroted on fox up by thehes picked

washington journal op-ed page that the reason why he lost is because of fraud thatat's happening in n some of f these g sayes o or as he w would illegals voting or the mail-in ballots or foreign interference. there is number of different channels for creating a narrative that there has been fraud. if you can do that and convince enough people on his side of the aisle that narrative is true, then you have a situation where there will be different stories about won the election. ththat can create a very d dangs situation. amy: so trump's attack on mail-in voting comes at a time administration is facing accusations of sabotaging the postal service under the newly installed postmasaster general. louis dejoy, a former trump fundraiser. since dejoy took office he has instituted a number of cost-cutting measures that have

slowed down the delivery of mail. the washington post reports there is now a days-long backlog of mail across the country. take it from there. expert on exactlyly whwhat is gogoing on at ththe pt officece, but i can n talk about what the risks are. there's going to be an unprecededented number of people voting absentee this year. partly because of the coronavirus epidemic making some people concerned about standing in line in close quarters to go vote. so many people are going to vote by mail. if the mail is slow, then it will be delivered late and these ballots will not arrive on election night. one of the things trump has also been claiming is t that ththe election shoululd be called on elecection nigight. why woululd he want that? there is a well-known phenomenon known as the blueshift witches the votes that come in late tend

disproportionately to be democratic voters for a whole bunch of different reasons. ifif he wants the e election cad on electioion nigight, that wld prevent any of the tes that came inn late by mail, by the mail that is being slowed down by the p postal service's inincompetenence. itit is effefectively y a form f disesenfranchihisement f for any who votetes late or votes by ma. front page of the new york times today, newew york cicity s still deciding thehe june prpriy raceces. >> i think one of the things w e needed to get ready for is t the are not going to have a traditional election night. it's really going to be an election season. we need to be patitit and we don'n't necessarily -- we won't necessarilily know the results n electition night. n number ofbebe a

different states. ththe swing states eveven though biden is way ahead in terms of national pollsls, and swing stae the results are pretty close and we may not know on election night who wonon. the responsnsibility of all americans to be patient aboutt that because what we want above all else is s for our democratic voting process too have integrity f for everyrybodo wants to vote to be able to and for everybybody who votes to hae their vote counted. former r michiganan governor has said states shouldd prepare for a worst-t-case scenarioio for novembeber electn inclcluding trump seizing ballot boxes and using the military. you think that's possible? >> i do think it's possible. we've already seeeen what he's done i in portland d and it's kd of sinister from my pererspectie ththat e even thouough hehe hasw wiwithdrawn n from portlanand, s

announunced they are going t toe deployed and spepecificalllly cleveland, d detroit a and milwaukee. whyy would he pick thohose three cicities? those arare blue cities in swing ststates. in o ohio,ichigan anand wiscono. if you can prevent and intimidate voters from voting, that could be decisive in swinging the results in his favor. i do think there's a severe chance that the military will be used for militarized forces. square,after lafayette the military is likely to resist being deployed that way. we have terror militarized federal forces that t are willlg to do anything and thatt is a risk for the election. of transitioner integrity project, thank you for joining g us. we will be joioined by cofounder of black voters matter.

>> [singing] ♪ amy: that''s our next guest latosha brown singing aint gonna let nobody turn me around as she witnessed congressmember john lewis's last trip across the edmund pettus bridge. in her native home of selma,

alabama.a. that took place last weekend. nowhes democracy quarantine report. i'm amy goodman. as president t trump traililed n the polls last week he tweeted thursday that he was floating the ididea of delaying the election and that quote 2020 will be the most inaccurate & fraudulent election in history. this follows a series of attacks by trump on mail-in voting and comes as the trump administration faces accusations it is sabotaging the postal -- former president barack obama delivered the eulogy at john lewis' funeral, where he called for sweeping changes to expand voting rights. >> there are people doing their darndest to close polling attacking our voting rights with surgical precision. even undermining the postal service in the run-up to an election. ons going to be dependent mail-i-in ballots so people do't

get sick. amy: that's former president barack obama giving the eulogy at the funeral o of civil rights icon john lewis. well for more we go to atlanta where we are joined by latosha brown, co-founder of the black voters matter fund and the bvm capacity building institute. she is a 2019 harvard institute of politics fellow. welcome to democracy now. great to have you with us. there are you -- there you are singining at the bridge watching john lewis's casket. you are a leader in the voting rights movement. can you talk about trump saying that millan v votes disqualififs elections, that theyey are fraudulelent? the moment surreal that we are going t through on e backdrop of celebrating the work ofof john lewis and other leaderss, civil rights

who did so much. then we have the dichotomy of a president who is probably the most fascist president we have ever had in this country. fundamentally when i'm thinking about his tweet, there's a couple of reasons he did it. hehe knows he doesn't have the power to do it, but that hasn't stopped him before. i think he is hell-bent on doing whatever he needs to do to undermine and undercut democracy. the second thing which is very similar to the voting rights movement, he wants to create an environment of fear. a culture of fear. he goes out and makes these tweets so that his base can get all up in arms. he can already set the stage for what he plans if he loses, as he knows he's not doing well on the polls right now. that also sets the tone for that so that it creates that kind of confusion. the third thing he wants to do

is create confusion among voters in general. fromnts to dissuade voters feeling that it is possible in this election cycle. it's almost like a distraction. did it is when we had the highest number of cases of covid-19 reported that day. i think he has a really masterful way of wanting to change the subject so he can change the new cycle. often times when he's coming under pressure, in the e news cycle he will say something racist or very inflammatory so that it shifts the news cycle. it's a combination of what he said of all of that. just like what you heard in that idiot, there are millions of americans who have been taking to the streets over the last couple of months who are saying, we ain't going to let nobody turn us around. he has underestimated the power of the people.

what hely in november, thinks is his best tactic is to literally create enough doubt so that he can create confusion and that in some way he can actually create his base to undermine the results ofof the electioion. reports, theg to number of registered voters in georgia is approaching an high.me according to an article published july 29, quote, there are nearly 70,000 more voters in georgia today than there were in may. about 30% of the voters were black. thisdoo you attribute massive increase in voter registration to? we have been devastated by covid-19. there are millions of people without jobs. and a have a congress

senate that refuses to extend unemployment benefits. people are demanding something different. they are fundamentally frustrated with process. they are seeing all of this right before their eyes. trump has failed to show any leadership. what we are seeing is record numbers. i was out at a grocery store and there was a young person that walked up to me and asked how could they register because they recognized who i was. i have also been getting text messages. i have never gotten this kind of response from people who are actually coming to me. usually we are going out trying to get people to register to vote. young people have been calling me. i think we all see what's happening in this country and people are starting to get a sense of how critical this election cycle is not just to move trump out but because he is actually creating harm in our community. amy:y: that came after the meltdown primary in georgia.

the former secretary of state who is now the government doing everything from copying trump around coronavirus and not wanting to impose any kind of statewide mask mandate to on the issue of voting continue to challenge votes. stacey abrams raised the issue of the lack of money that's being put into these stimulus packages for voting in november. inyou think that democrarats congress are doing enough to ensure a free and fair election and ensure that enonough people have access to the p polls? >> i don't think there's enough being donene. i think there are some democrats who have been champions of this process and i admire them and lift them up in thr work, but we have to stop looking at thths as a partisan issue. this is a democracy issue. of those inress all

congress, evenen thosen the outsidide. we've got to put additional pressure on our elected officials to say that we want a free and fair election that thee people deserve that. level ofot seeing the inintensity around ensuring that we have e a free and fair electn that i think we are going to need. it is clear that w we have an admiministration that plansns to steal this election. have an attorney general who is complicit arouound this and also the e republicans. need every d day a press conference by the h houser about democratic members talking about the dangers of voter suppression every single day. i know there are some that are fighting. you were one of seven prominent black women who wrote an op-ed in the washington post titled, biden still needs black women. here are 3 things he needs to do.

he is expected to choose a vice presidential running mate any day now. , quote, biden's only path to victory is through black women and the voters we know how to energize. though we have propped up the democratic party for decades, the return on our investment in the party might as well read, insufficient funds. you went on to outline the 3 points for biden, which were, america needs a black woman as vice president, america needs a black female supreme court jujustice, and america needs a comprehensive black agenda. expand on this.. i i think we e need to recognie and we know w the last 50 years, like women have been the most consistent as the highest turnout base in this country. yet in the last 50 years we have not had a supreme court nominee of a black woman. we have not had a black woman in the highest positions as president or vice president even nominated or considered.

we have seen underrepresentation of black women in not only political office political appointees. we are demanding something different as we go into this new phase of american tomorrow see that those on the front lines who are protecting and have always been on the vanguard protecting democracy. we stood 100 years ago with our white female counterparts although our own vote wasn't secured until 50 years later. we have consistently been on the vanguard of pushing democracy however we have been completely underrepresented. is someonee world that showed up in 50 years and they are not considered in the top two or three positions. if it was a white man it would be unconscionable. aside from that, we are in a moment that black women that we are in a space around racial tensions, racial division in

this country and we really need a depth of understanding around structural racism. we also need someone who has a depth of understanding around gender issues. thek women sit squarely in space of gender and race. needs a black woman to bring some excitement and d energy to the ticket andna deptpth of knowlwledge and expeperiencece. any of the women o on the listst could meet that. when you exclude populations, particularly those that have consistently showed up for you. that's why i am continuing to stand on this is the moment. i think it's interesting that when biden said he was going to select a woman, nobody questioned that. why didn't anybody question that? because we knew it was the time. we knew that based on having this environment that we are in right now that it was natural for him to say there was time

for a woman to lead. apply in thisnot moment that t we are i in right? a black womann would bring a critical voice to this processs. us: thank you for being with . when we come back,k, we speak ta moroccan journalist and human righghts activist who hahas just been jaileled. stayay with usus. ♪ ["rebel without a pause" by public enemy playing] d just turned 60 this

weekenend. i'm amy goododman. we turn nonow to morocco, where authorities have arrested award-winning journalist and human rights activist omar radi on what press freedom advocates are calling retaliatory charges. omar radi reported on the role of the moroccan state and big business in dispossessing farmers of their tribal lands. he has spoken out about facing harassment and surveillance. radi was arrested on wednesday, july 29, just over one month after he was the focus of an amnesty international report that alleged moroccan authorities hacked radi's phone using pegasus spyware from the israeli company nso group. now a court has charged radi with undermining state security by receiving foreign funding and collaborating with foreign intelligence. the court also charged him w wih rape. ththe committee to p protect journalists issued a statement that quote, momoroccan aututhors in the past have plainly tried to make any charge against him stick in retaliation for his work as a journalist. cpj called on them to release radi.

and investigate any sexual assault charges in a credible and transparent manner. omar radadi's lawyers deny allle charges against him. he is reportedly being held in a prison in casablanca that is a covid hot spot and has not beeen allowed any y visitors, not even his lawyer or his s parents. his next court hearing is scheduled for september 22. i spoke with omar before his arrest, on july 16 when he was being taken in several times a week for queststioning. i i asked him to explainin whats happening. first it all stararted by media harassment byy pro-state media that started leaking my private information and a also saying fe news about me and insulting me, my family, my colleagues and my friends with a a lot of fake nes but also with real news. i bank information for example. that only state officials can access to them.

campaign accusedt worked forg intelligence agencies, especially u.s. . and british intelligence agencies. 22 amnestyise, june international released its report about me being spied on by moroccan authohorities using the pegasus virus. day, the general prosecutor o o c casablanca ordd the national brigade of judicial police to investigatate with men the basis of the same information that has been leaked on this pro state media about me having been asked by -- a spy for i don'n't knowhahat country. summonsgot the police and 205i had my first hearing by

the politicacal police in moroc. , when out ofued two days i'm in their offices answering riridiculous and surrealistic questions such h a, you have met with the spokesperson or a diplomat from the dudutch embassy. what kind ofof intelligence servrvices were you providing h? , theythout any evidence don't phase me with any evidence. they just asked me questions like that that are empty questions.s. and theyey want me t to confess somemething i didn't knoww and w it looks like harassment and everybody inin morocco knonows s judicial h harassment for what happened with amnesty. amy: me step back for a moment. can you talk about your work as a journalalist? the kind of storories that you . onthis year i i worked a lott

land secession. we have collectctive land nership anand the tribal lands are veryry lar in moroccoco and the state is trying to get these lands to inject them into the markets and there is a lot of ininjustice in this policy becae people are not compensated well in these lands are reevaluated and it's all benefits to the big capital in morocco actually. so i work on land grabbingng, ld disposition. sectorsork on fifinance anthe relationship between the power and business in morocco. my framework and also human rights. explain what this pegasus

program is. the government in morocco has access to your bank accccounts d other information. what happenened to your phone? pegasus is quite silent program. don't feel it actually. it's not a persistent program. it doesn't stay in your phone or in your computer. network using a injection so people need to be pastyou to makeke themselvess as a relay antenna. and your phone is connected to a fake relay antenna and then the network injection works and then get,rogram works and they i don't know. he can use your microphone, your keybyboard, yoyour screen. thatt isny information stored in your phone..

amount of know if the information they've stolen from my own. this pro state media , they published many information that have exchanged even in signal, which is known that is a very safe program. own have evidence that my conversations s have been leaked to pro s state mediaia. also ieme that are leaking bank information. -- my bank information. amy: can you talk about specifically what happened when the amnesty report came out? the significant of what they said is very much focused on your case. and what the mororoan governmnmt said to you w when they started calling you in f for these interrogatioions. whatat have you beenen charged ? they don'tolice,

talk about the a amnesty report. said in a public statement, t the head of the moroccan diplomacy says that i have been used as a pond by amnenesty internationalal to has democracy and is a witithmysyself, i have ties a liaison agegent from another country. serious was r really because it's the government in person who is threatening the and accusing me ofof all this. i was s the victim here and i ws the person who has been spied on. the least i i wanted from the governmentnt is to launcan investigation about t what was

happening and i was even ok to give them my phone to audit it. the next day i have been attacked and aggggressive and accused d of treason and manany other insnsults that tried to discredit me with the public opinion. youou are chargeded with treason, could you facace the death penalty in morocco? articles,minal court yes. i think they have no evidence against m me and this is an empy case. it if they want to charge me, can go from one year, five years of prison to death penalty. but i think it's unlikely. this is not really serious. cannot, thehe statate cannot considider that i'm an indndivi.

i'm in a war againinst all the inststitutions. i'm not in cononontation w with the state. i'm an individual that needs to do his journalism in a safe way and pepeople let me do it t in e and also to let me exexpress myself as i want to. i'm not t in a war against ybody. goinge state thinknks i'm in a war. this is surrealistic. are you worried about the people around you, closest to you? can you talk about who they are attacking and revealing who are your friends, yoyour colleagues? surprise her last example was thahat my father's phone calls have been transcript it in the probe state thug media. amy: transcripts of your

father''s conversations are printed inin the moroccan media? >> yes. father is on tape. this is crazy. this has taken proportions thatt are incredible. amy: let's talk about when all of this happened. the amnesty report says forensic artifacts that amnesty international extracted from your phone suggest that the pegasus network injection attacks occurred on january 27 offebruary 11 and the 13th september 2019. >> yes. this is what they found. because the virus makes this appear, it's fingerprprints. find all l theto traces of the active virus actually. march we spoke to you in

shortly y after we first s spoke with you. you u were given sususpended for month prison term for a tweet that you put out in 2019 about the jailing of a group of activists. whwhat were you tweengng about? there was this strorong social movement in the e north of morocco. it's leleaders were asking for opportunities a and public services. anand they ended up jailed somef them for 20 years of jail of being accused likike i'm being accused now of jeopardizing national security. and i tweeted abouout this judg. i saiaid we will nenever forget about all ththese peoeople witho dignity.

and i have been accused of outragage to a judge and sentend to four months sususpended. i'm still waiting for the appeal dadate. amy: do you assume you are always being surveilled? evidence e about that actuaually. e,caususe the police showed they were surveilling myhone and my callsls and my sms messas sincnce 2011. ththe investigation with the until 2011.back so they knew who i w was talking toto, o was textingg me, who was calling g me e etc. it's nota speculation, a suppososition. i am now sure thatat i have been surveilled. by the s state.

morocco has ain goodod track record of a acquirg these kind o of tools. morocco is a cusustomer and bout and we have ththe proof in the evidence that morocco has paid more t than $3 million to the italian compmpany for its v virs remote control system. is the moroccan media covering what's happening to you? whwhat are other journalists saying? his civivil society raililing ad you? >> civil societytys rallyingng around me. ishink the publicic opinion very -- showed a a lot of solidarity as wewell as the moroccans living abroad and many other ngogos on the internationl level. are foror cautiously covering t the facts of whwhat's

happppening and waiting to see e next steps. pro statete media and working as the thugs journalists for the state. they have already censored me. they alrlready called me the sp, itor etc.r - -- tray statere functioning as thugs. amy: do you think the moroccan government is using you as a warning to other journaliststs t to do the kind ofof corporate ad state investigations that you do? i think w what we'veve done wih many other journalists in the past has upset the statate. and the state in its strategy towards the media decided not to

makekehis happenen again and not to make itit repeat a again andt to make this kind of journalism exists. yes, i think thahat it's revenge actually. reaction toery bad the amnesty report. also it has the function to make people afraid by this kind d of couragage of this kindnd of journanalism, this kind of peope and call outt agagainst injustice etc. i think this is considered as dangerous by the state. amy: the first amnesty report showed examples of this pegasus software injected into other journalists phones documenting, surveilling, spying onon eveverything they were doing. whwhat advice do you have to working journalisists?

the means oft have state andnd huge cyber defense companies. i think the best thing to do is get a t of prerecautions.. not toto use thehe phone if it't nececessary if weean do the thingsgs physically etc., protecting sources as journalists is very important. bebecause one of the purpoposesf the surveilillance is to map yor use the latest security softwarare and anonymiy connections. i think this is very i importan. does it make sources afraid to talk to you? you are a targeted journalist.t. has anything happened to people you u spoke to for yourr stori? >> i didn't try to call thehem t becausi'i'alalways in the polile offices. i need t to go back to my work o i hope to see what's happened

after all this nighthtmare is overer. you we are speaking to right b before your sixth interrogation tomorrow. are you concerned at any point like tomorrow coululd be taken d nonot released? >> anything is possible actually. it's not exclcluded. if they arrest me, t they havevo show material evidencece. whicich they don't have. so it would be an abusive arrest. in my lawyers are aware of a a that -- and my lawyers are aware of all that and i gagave all the evididence and proof of my innocent -- innocence to my lawyers. so i'm not afraid. i will go there. i stopopped answering their questions and i s stopped signig the reports since yesterday and i'm not doing it again. so i stopped cooperating with the police because they are asking and the questions and

questions that don't resespect e presumption of innocenence. so i'm not playing this game. if they have somomething, they just arrrrest me and s send me o the prosecucution and then to trial. but i'm not playing this q&a game with the police that just want me to confess that i was someththing i nenever was. so i took this very hard decision not keeping silenent ad not s signing any testimony or confession. thisyou said you've made decision to keep silent. >> yes. i'm not coopeperating with the moroccan police. radi, s speaking to us from casablancnca. two weeks later, moroccan authorities s arrested him. he's reportedly being held in a casablanca prison that's a covid hotspot and has not been allowed to have as its from his lawyer

or his parents. we will link to the amnesty international report that alleges moroccan officials hacked his phone using spyware. that does it for our show. i'm amy goodman.

. nine pm at bangkok airport on saturday january the fifth. eighteen year old saudi arabian citizen rough mohammed al kanoon arrives on a flight from kuwait's she's desperate and on the right