08/12/20 08/12/20 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: frorom new york, this is democrcracy now! >> we have a black woman on the ticket. and after all of this organizing, making the case, helping to expand the imaginations of the american people, we have finally the first in history an opportunity to lead. amy: joe biden selects california senator kamala harris to be his vice presidential running mates, making her the

first black woman and the first indian-american to be on a major party presidential ticket. harris is the daughter of immigrants -- her father from jamaica, her mother from india. we look at the historic decision with aimee alison, founder of she the people, and briahna joy gray, the former national press secretary for bernie sanders' presidential campaign. then we speak to the pulitzer prize winning author isabel wilkerson, author of the new book "caste: the origins of our discontents." >> the t tm caste may be neneto many of us, b but antnthropologs and sociolists who studied the jim crow south e emerged from te researchch and foundnd that to e the most a appropriatete word fr that regioion of our country for more than 100 yes of jimimrow segrgregation. that is the woword they chose to use and that is the word i'm trying to use -- i'm using and trying to unpack and understand this book. amy: all that and more, coming up.

welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, , the quarante repoport. i'i'm y goodman.n. joe biden n has selected senator kamala harris of california to be his vice presidential running mate, making her the firirst blk woman and the firstt indian-american to be on a major party presidential ticket. biden and harris are scheduled to make their first joint appearance today in wilmington, delaware. in tweet, biden described harris as a "fearless fighter for the little guy, and one of the country's finest public servants." kakamala harris has served in te senate since 2017. she previously served as california's attorney general for six years and as district attorney of san francisco for seven years before that. harris has been credited with pushing criminal justice reform and in thehe senate anand critid for her record as a prosecutor in california by progressives. harris is the daughter of immigrants. her father from jamaica, her mother from india. we'll have much more on kamala

harrisis after h headlines. florida a and georgia have reported their highest daily death tolls since the start of the coronavirus pandemicic as te u.s. recorded nearly new deaths 1300 from covid-19 tuesday. texaxas and d california repepod nearar-record rates ofof infects and wisconsin passed the 1000-d-death mark. big ten and pac-12 college athletic conferences each voted to postpone their fall sports seasons, including football games -- a multibillion-dollar industry and major source of revenue to universities. president trump lashed out against the moves, telling "fox sports radio" in an interview it would be a tragic mistake to cancel f football in the fall. meanwhile, in southwestern georgia, a second prisoner at the stewart detention center, a for-profit immigration jail, has died of covid-19. the 70-year-old costa rican national, whose name hasn't been released, is the third asylum-seeker to die in ice custody in the last week alone.

india reported more than 60,000 new coronavirus cases and 834 deaths wednesday -- nearlyly breakingng a record set earlier this week -- bringing india's official death toll to more than 46,000. latin america remains ththe epepicenter of the pandemic, wih just 8% of the world's population and 30% of global deaths from covid-19. in bolivia, morgues in the city of la paz are filled to capacity as bodies of covid-19 victims have been left uncollected in an open-air spot near a local chapel. a police officer cited residents' fear of contracting the virus. >> the majority of those bodies here at the morgue are people who died in the street. and for those who died at home, families have passed on funeral responsibibilities because they fear coronavirus infection. amamy: in election news, a supporter of a far-right conspiraracy theory withth a hiy of racist remarks s has won the

repupublican nominatation for georgia's s 14th congressiononal district. marjorie taylor greene's primary victory tuesday in a deep-red district makes her the heavy favorite in november's general election. greene ran on a pro-gun, anti-immigrant and anti-abortion platform, and has embraced the qanon conspiracy theory, which claims -- among other things -- that president trump is secretly at war with a deep state cabal of satan-worshiping elites who run a child sex trafficking operation. in videos posted to social media, greene voices support for confederate monuments, calls black people slaves to the democratic party, claims billionaire philanthropist george soros is a nazi, and attacks muslims elected to congress. iasione is an islamic into our governmt t offis rit nonow,k? you saw after midterm elections wh w we saw so many muslims elelecte i don't know t exactumber, but ther were ite a fe we had that womaatat a minnesota

now shs's gog to cgresess and shhas totoear a he coveri? amy: in minnesota, freshmaman congressmember ilhan omar, one i three muslims in congress, defeated a well-funded challenger in tuesday's primary elections. antone melton-meaux raised $3.2 million in the second quarter of 2020, seven times as much as omar's campaign. melton-meaux had the support of two pro-israel lobby groups that bundled 20% of his large-dollar donations. he was ao o back by y tw billioires. ilhan om, , who's s be outspspen in her support of lelestinn rits, , cebratededer victory tuesdaday by tweeting that "organized people will always beat organized money." she added -- "it's about standing up for the basic human rights around the world -- and fighting a military-industrial complex that opposes the recognition of people's humanity and dignity." the e democratic national convention has unveiled a list of speakers for next week'k's convention, whicich will be held entirely onlinin

among marquee names are former president barack obama and former first lady michellele obama, former president bill clintoton, former ohio republicn governor john kasich, and freshman new york congressmember alexandria ocasio-cortez. also scheduled to speak are senators bernie sanders, elizabeth warren, and cory booker, as well as south bend, indiana, mayor pete buttigieg. we will play highlights each morning on democracy now! next week. kamala harris will accept the nominationon on wednesday night. joe biden willll accept t his nomination on thursday night. in lebanon, mourners on tuesday marked one week since a catastrophic explosion destroyed the port of beirut, killing more than 220 people, injuring 7000, and leaving more than a quarter-million residents homeless. overnight, police fired tear gas at protesters who set fire to a

gate leading to the parliament building. the mass resignation of lebanon's top government officials on monday has failed to quell anger over a crushing economic crisis, record rates of covid-19 infections, and last week's catastrophic blast. meanwhile, "the new york times" reports an american contractor working with the u.s. army warned over four years ago about the zazard posed b by over 2700 tons of f explosive amammonium nitrate fertililizer left unattended at beirut's port. the u.s. state department reportedly then failed to pass along the wawarning to u.s. allies. mali prorotests in mali, t thousdsds of proteses flooded the capital bamamako tuesday, demanding the resignation of preresident ibram boubacarar keita amid d a finanl crisis, widespread corruption, and momounting violence from separatist groups. the protests were the biggest since july 10, when the police opened fire on anti-government

protesters, , killing g at leas1 peopople and wounding scores of others. in chicago, a 20-year-old man who was shot at multiple times by p police and charged with attempmpted murder for allegedly firing at police officers first is being held d on a $1 1 millin bond. this comes as s "southside week" reports s there is no bodydycam footage orny v vid evidedence of latrell allen allegedly shooting at p police officers. allen's brother, who was with allen at the time of sunday's shooting, told "the chicago sun times" that his brother hadn't fired at police. another witness told "southside weekly" a police vehicle drove toward allen at high speed, jumping a curb, causing allen to panic and run. the shooting sparked massive protests in chicago, where over 100 people were arrested overnight on monday. in aururora, colorado, the famiy of elijah mcclain, a 23-year-old black young man who was killed by police last year, has filed a lawsuit against the officers and paramedics involved in his death.

mcclain was stopped by police on august 24, 2019 as he was walking home from buying iced tea for his brother. he was tackled by police and placed in a chokehold and later injected with ketamine by paramedics. he died on august 30 after days on life support. an online petition demanding justice for mcclain has collected over 5 million signatures. in california, a viral videoeo shows los s angeles county sheriff's deputies detaining three teenagers at gunpoint after r bystanders calleled 911o rereport the teens were under attackck by a maman with a knif. two of the t three teens are african american and t the arresting officers are white. video of last friday's incident in santa clarita shows two officers with handguns trained on the teens, who have their hands above their heads. a third officer sights one of the teens through the scope of his assault rifle, his finger on

the trigger. as bystanders protest that the deputies have the wrong suspects, the officer with the rifle shouts at them to back up. >> it is not them. >> it is the other guy. >> put your guns down. >> back up. >> keep your hands up. amy: deputies to tame the three teens in squad cars for about 30 minutes before releasing them without charge. los angeles county sheriff alex villanueva said in a brief statement on twitter he had "concerns regarding the tactics employed" and that the officer'' actions were under investigation. a michigan judge h has closed te case against a 15-5-year-old african n american student w whd been s sent to a juvenile jail n may after she failed to complete her schoolwork online. the girl, who is known simply as grace, was released from custody

in july y and has now been remod frfrom probation.. and a california judge has ordered uber and lyft to reclassify their drivers from independent contractors to employees. monday's ruling forces lyft and uber to grant thousands of contract drivers the same protections and benefits under labor law as other company employees, including health insurance and paid sick time. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the quarantine report. i'm amy goodman in new york, with my co-host juan gonzalez in new jersey. juan: welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the countryry and aroroud the world. amy: we are beginning with the top news here in this country. jojoe has selected senator kamaa harris of california to be his vice presidential running mate, her the first black woman and the fifirst indian-amamerican te on a majajor party presidedentil ticket. the daughter of

immigrants. her father from jamaica, her mother from india. biden and harris are scheduled to make their first appearance today in wilmington, delaware. harris will officially accept her nomination next wednesday. in a tweet, biden described harris as a "fearless fighter for the little guy, and one of the country's finest public servants." kamala harris had endorsed biden inin march a after challenging m for the nomination. >> i really believed in him and i have known him for a long time. one of the things that we need right now is we need a leader who really does care about the people and you can therefore unify the people. i believe joe can do that. amy: joe biden picked kamala harris even though the two sparred on the campaign trail. in the first democratic debate last year, harris criticized biden over his comments about working with segregationists in the senate and for his opposition to delaware's attempts to bus students in an effort to integrate its schools in the 1970's.

>> i'm good to direct this at vice president biden. i do not believe you are a racist. you commith you when yourself to the importance of finding common ground, but i also believe -- and it is personal. it was hurtful to hear you talk about the reputations of two united states senators who built the reputations and career on the segregation of race in this country. it was not only that, but you also worked with them to oppose busing. there was a little girl in california who was part of the second class to integrate her public s school. and she was blessed to school every day. and that little girl was me. amy: kamala harris has served in the senate since 2017. she previously served as california's attorney general

for six years and as district attorney of san francisco for seven years. she is a graduate of howard university. the historically black college. while harris has been credited with pushing criminal justice reform in the senate, she has been criticized for her record as a prosecutor in california in part for her reluctance to prosecute police brutality cases. she once called herself california's "top cop" and wrote in 2009 -- "if we take a show of hands of those who would like to see more police officers on the street, mine would shoot up." biden's selection of harris was celebrated by many progressive organizatitions. naacp ceo derrick jojohnson said the selection of harris is "the culmination of the tireless work of shirley chisolm, charlene mitchell, sojourner truth, rosa parks, fannie lou hamer, barbara jordan, ida b. wells, and myrlie evers in their fight for

representation and equalality." sunrise movement co-founder varshini prakash praised harris for taking the no fossil fuel momoney pledge, endorsining the green new deal, and taking o on big oil as california's s attory general.l. former presidential candidate bernie sanders also praised harris, tweeting -- "she understands what it takes to stand up for working people, fight for health care for all, and take down the most corrupt administration in history." meanwhile,e, the whihite house, president trump atattacked harrs describing h her as "nasty." he made nono mention of the fact he had twice d donated to harr's re-electction bid d to be california's attorney general in 2014. we are joined now by two guests. joining us from harris' hometown of o oakland, california, is aie allison, president and founder of she the people, which has worked to elevate the political voice and leadership of women of color. also with us is briahna joy gray, the former national press secretary for bernie sanders presidential campaign.

in 2019, she wrote a piece for the intercept titled "a problem for kamala harris: can a prosecutor become president in the age of black lives matter?" we welcome you both h to democry now! aimee allison, let's begin with you. can you respond to joe biden's announcement yesterday that kamala harris will join him on the presidential ticket as his vice presidential running mate? >> is hard to overstate how historic, how monumental this is. it is a watershed moment for women of color across the country. we have workrked tirelessly over the last three years, but standingng on the shoulders of women of color who have worked as engaged citizizens and the mt loyal democrats to lead. for kamala harris to join the top p of the ticket is not justa nod to our voting power come the necessity of women of color to

turn out in historic numbers in november, it is an indication the establishment of the democratic party who just four years ago could not imagine women of color and black women being in executive leleadership and government now acknowowleds that america needs the leaderership of wowomen of colo. so our time has come. it is a very exciting moment. i have been hearing from women of color all over the country how thrilled they are. the move deepens the enthusiasm that women of color, particularly in battleground must win states, feel about the biden ticket, the biden-harris ticket. it is going to get people to be able to see themselves more deeply in the campaign. and that is going to bode wellll for a path to o victory in november. , whati i want to ask memessage is he sendining in tes of what t sector of the elelecte

he is courting or he is deciding that he doesn't need to plalacae with his v vice presidenential choice? o ofere can be no gap thatt course this domimination is histororic. something else historic isis gog on right nowow which i that we are in the middle of t the largt prototest movement in american histstory. it is a protest movement that is all about finding nonpunitive, non-core severeral solutions to the kinds of economic problems that are plaguing like and brown communities but all a americans esespecially right now in thee middle of f this addititionallys torqrque global pandemic. there is a great d deal of frustration thatat there is this choice not only toto nominate a candidate who is knonown as thte author of what exactly y called the joe e biden crime bill, but also selected running mate who is known for being the top cop from california come the state that is the second-highest number of incarcerated people in america.

and moreover, kamala harris is the one who has had these criticisms leveraged at her throughout -- very early on at the start t of her campaign, a d to many people in the activist communitity, have done very lite to assuage people's concerns about her previous stances or demonstrate the level of growth that we would like to see. that miss the point allison was makiking about whehr or not black voters in swing states are going to bebe more inclinined to tuturnout, what ww in poll after poll is so biden has the base lockdown and he's often celebrating that black voters overwhelmingly voted for him. it is not to me what that looked were a of this is when you contrast that with younger voters in particular and swing voters were less enthusiastic about this campaign in part because they were looking for a kind of fundamental change in this campaign cycle, desire that

was only exacerbated by the hehealth crisis and economic crisis we arare in now. and joe has articulated very clearly he's s the candidate who promises that nothing will fundamentally y change. amy: we'e're going to go to brek and come back to this discussion. that is briahna joy gray, former national press secretary for bernie s sanders 2020. and we are joined as well by aimee allisoson, the founder of she the pepeople. stay with h us. ♪ [music break]

amy: "is this s all" by y bobbi humphrey. this is democracy now!, democracynowow.org, the war and peace reportrt. i'm amy goodman. biden has selected kamala harris of california to be his vice presidential running mate, making her the first black woman inin the first indian-american o be on a major party presidential ticket. harris, the daughghter of immigrants. her father from jamaica, her mother from india. we're speaking with aimee allison, president of she the people. formerahna joy gray, national preress secreretary for

bernie sanders 2 2020 campaign d contributing etor r tourrerent affairs. i would ask is the announcement came down, tweeted -- aimee allisoson, your response? >> i have so much respect for the analysis and the acknowledgment of the importance of the call for racial justitic. there is noo doubt that racial justice, and i issue deaealing h america's racism come is going to unify multiracial coalition as we go into the polls. but herere's what we undederstad about the e base.. women ofof cololor, black, lati, asian america, indigenous, form 25% ofof the voting basase and a seseveral ofof them must win key states, battleleground states sh

as arizona, texas, georgia, and florida. we held a series of listening sessions over the last six weeks to ask women o of color who lead vovoter engagement, voter registration, and movement building organization buildining on thehe ground, what ththey ne. do they see themselves in n the biden cacampaign? what are the issueues they care about? we heard loud anand clear that there was an enthusisiasm gap ad that the vast majority of them wanted to see a woman n of color on the t ticket, and that thee conversatitions and engagement n the middle of a pandemic with voter suppression alive and well in those states and the fact that we have an economic crisis where people are not able to afford the rent as of this month -- allll of those calamitities e basicacally goingng to have to l through glassss to be ablble toe and get our votes counted. and having a woman of color on

the ticket was p part of that, t it w was not the only thining. the world does not rise -- the sun does not rise e and set on e candidatate. much of the excitement right now and how we translate the momovement we have been saying, calling for black lives matter and justice and a lot of the chananges in policing that wee e been in conversation with our local issues. what i'm hearing from battleground states fofolks is t is not just the top of ththe titicket, it is alalso d down bt raraces. there are three women runnining- dedemocratic nominees for r sen. histstoric number of women of cololor running for r congress. but it is a local, state, legislative, city council races where the call to defund police will be translated into policy and budget. that is where the fight is. it is not an either/or. it is that we continue to push. my final point is, kamala harris is not the same person she was

in 2011. she has a progressive voting record as s a senator. it is 2020. she showed up in this s historic pandemic time as an advocate for economic justice and racial stice in t the ways ththat are very promimising. the movement has s strength. this is anan indication of itsts influence. , , whatbahna joy g gray about this issueue that t kamala haharris hasas evolved a as a popoliticall leader? ballotue of ththe down imimpact oththis choice? alsoso, the senator that you worked for, senator bernie sanders,s, his advisor responded to biden's pig said "she is a good pick, a safafe pick -- pick said, "she is a good pick, a safe p pick"? > i'm a little c confused bye argumement this is the pic thats going to turnout black women in

particular f for two reasons. one, the reaeason that black w n are characterized as the base is because of ouromommitment t to voting the democratic ticket regardless of who is on it. that is a a blessing and a curs. it is a a blessing for the democratic party because they're all of thesese i instances histstorically in which black women have been n the factor to democratic candidates pulling through, oftentimes through heheinous repupublican alternat. at the same time, very little has to be done to appeal to black voters. we see thehe indifference demonstrated by the democratic party that is increasing over the years. i want to just note that because i think it is i important to say there is a constituency that isn't as enthusiastic about joe biden's ticket right now, and that his younger voters, including younger black voters who arare in a place where they are little past representation beining a be-all/end-allll.

it is difficult to feel sometimes as a person of color, a blac person inin particular, that representational value is being elevated in these instances over your substantive political concerns. is, yes, kamala harris has evolved, but that is also part of the concern here that i think a lot of voters are not exactly sure where she stands on a lot of these issues. part of what was an issue for her during a primarary, remembe, she drdropped out before a any ballots were cast, speculationn being that was in part because she was losing her home s stateo andrew yang. there is a lot of california-based local domestic concern about people who know her record the best. there has been an implication online at the very least that the people who have raised concerns about kamamala harris d her record are not the basase, e

now black k people, aree white leftist, the bernie breaux mythology y has been r raised. the reality is, there's a lot of grassroots frustration with the fact this again, unprecedented political movement is basically being ignored or very least a gnosis being found a at what is going on in the streets right now. amy: i want to go to donald trump responding to biden's choice of california senator kamala harris as his running mate. pres. trump: she was probably nastier than even pocahontas to joe biden. she was very disrespectful too joe biden.. amy:y: that t is what he said yesterday after he heard the news. aimee allison, you're also part of a group called "we have your back." i was wondering if you could talk about this, first, his response and i also want to get ahna's response to what he

said, and his slur against elizabeth warren in the same breath. but also, what you're demanding of the media now as this campaign moves fororward? set the stagep even when he was campaigning in 2016.'s attack on black women particular, women of color, has been poioied -- part of what he does. it is how w he rallies racist be of voters and it is red meat to hihis supportersrs. let me just tell y you and b bey clear. black women and women of cololor were never confused about whoo donaldld trump is. we voted in record numbers against him in 2016, and we will , despite the fact we face a lot of challenges voting and getting our votes counted. what he says does not matter. though,h, is biggerer

than partyty. it is bigger than trump. itit is that this c country, although the base of the democratic pararty in recent pos hadedemonstrateded they want a blacack woman in leaeadership, d so now we have a black woman at the top of the ticket. despite that, racist and sexist comments dismissing the readiness of many of the women of color, in particular black women, who are being vetted for vp, already have started -- and it wasn't jujust from republbli. it also came from former senator chris dodd. what we have to do is be vigilant. we learned a lot from the attacks on hihillary c clinton,a white woman n running g for presidident. we know the racist and sexist attacks are going to continue fast and furious against senator harris and other women who are standiding for leadership.

so what we a ask from the medias to focus on the issues. is to not tolerate headlines like they had in the "l.a. times" which is lightning kamala harris receiving a rose on the island and silly things like that. we don't want any conversation about her hair or the close. what are her issues? what are we trying to do this country? what are the essential political game? what is the plan? when we take the conversation, particularly women of color, away from chaharacterizing thee pepersonal attributes, dismissig women of color with words like "ambitious" and holding women of color to a differerent ststandard, we ask a get a bettr political result. in all, what we're doing as women of color and broadly, we are leading a larger movement to create political space for women of color to lead -- not to

senator harris, but womomen of color e everywhere. we are thehe fastest g growing voting b bloc and the most underrepresented at every level of government. fofor us to be able toto assert ourselelves in a multiracialal democrcracy, we e have t to pusk hard against racism and sexist attacks and c celebrate, uplift our ability and willingness to govern. wanted to ask both h of you a about -- we h have heard e pullman a area lineup foror the democratic convention nextt wee. your sense of the focus of e democratatic pararty being largy the obamamas, the c clintons, af course jill biden and joe biden as the main speakers at e key hos when all of the nanational networks are tun in.n. i'm wondering yoyour response eo party, whyy of ththe

for instanance, bernie s sanders not being given a more prprominn spkingng role in thi convenention? is that sisignalingg something o that same expanded democratic base? echoo whahatant to mis allison said about no excuce forsing racism or sexism alall female candidadates. at the same time, with hillary clinton, i think part of the issue was a mixed bag of's substantive c concern. i would hate to fall in the same trap the party felell into in 26 in dismissing both in tandem instead of taking and addressing a lot of those substantive concerns had on in a way that could helelp other clinton assue the concerns of her critics and ununify a party that muchch of h ghastly andimately

ignored. i don't think anyone here thinks the criminal justice systems concerns t that have been lobbid at pennell hararris are sexist. already we have seen some of that characterized that way. aimee allison raise this idea of ambitious.r there's a legitimate criticism careerc choice to dust t her as a prosecutor in part because it is commonly known way to advance oneself politically yet a background as a lawyer. i say that a as an attttorney myself. with respect to the democratic national convention, you know, i think the party sending a clear signal about whose votes they're reaching for and who they aren't. they have john kasich who is a attempted and who has to pass one of the most draconian antiabortion laws and the state of ohio in a prime spot when there was news for a

while that suggests that they were not even going to allow aoc to speak. now they have. they made dressers what you would do that other than to say you're not interested in their outcome i don't know. it is s really curious choice. in 2016, dynamic being set up where there is a kind o of wantn disregard for the values and interests of what is coming up to be the new b base, the insurgent left-wing of the paparty, the part of the p party that celebrated the victory of cori bush last week. it is telling the o only people under the age of 50 who are speaking at thisis event are aoc and pete buttigieg. amy: i want as quicklyly, briah, about medicare for all, a key

position. recently, the platform comommite of the democratic party voted 125 to 36 to reject the single-payer plan during a virtual meeting they had. , harris has taken an unusual position. first when asked in the presidential debate how she feels about medicare for all, she raised her hand and support but the next day took it back. can you explain her position, cosponsor bernie sanders bill? >> i think a lot of people struggle to explain her position, which i fundamentally think is what her issue was in failing to g get more traction n the general election. i truly thought she was going to be the most difficult candidate to beat. but he saw and over again n she wowould make a ststrong claim oe debate stage and then ratchet it back in the days anand intervies afterwards. i think ththis over lining to ts -- sililver linining to this is

kamala harris was one of the early cosigners of bernie sanders 2017 m medicare for all bill, medicare for all plan, although,, ambiguous in some respects, most certainly to the left of joe biden's plan. i am curious to see if the medea willll ask her and j joe biden o define what is s going on in the space between the two and h how kamala harris isis reconcilingnr acknowledgmentnt that t health e is a humuman rightht, her acacknowledgment especially durg the e time of thisis pandemic tt people should not have to pay for healthth care toto s survivt the employer-based health care system has beeeen revealaled asa complete failure in a world where we are seeing recocord unemplployment rates, unemploymt rates are disproportionally affecting lack an brown community'y's and more so the actual covid infection rates a e black and brownn committees, how you're going to reconcile that with joe bynes

insistence that even if medicare for all were to be passed for all, he would -- perhaps their opportunities there for the left. amy: thank you both for being with us. this is a conversation that is going to continue. democracy now! is therere all wk next week. virtually. we will be bringing you the democratic national convnvention bringing you day, highlights of the evening'g's evenents and commentary as well. we want to thank briahna joy gray, f former national press secretary for bernie sanders 2020 campaign and contributing editor to current affairs. as well as aimee a allison, president and founder of she the people. speaking to us fromm oakland, california. when we come back, we talk to the award-winning author of "caste: the originins of ourur discontentnts." stay with h us. ♪ [music break]

amamy: "black rarage" by lauryn hill. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace repoport. i'i'amy y goodman n with juan gonzalez. we are spending g the rest of te hour witith pulitzer p prize-wig journalist and author isabel wilkerson, whose new book actually grows out of her widely acclaimed book "the warmth of other suns," which tells the history of the great migration, when waves of african-americans moved out of the south to escape racism, only to face it again in the north. well, in her new book "caste: the origins of our discontents," wilkerson argues that based on her extensive research, america's racial hierarchy

should be thought of as a caste system, similar to what she calls "the world's most recognized caste system" that -- in india. she also looks at how nazi germany borrowed from jim crow laws of the united states. wilkerson writes -- "searching the histories of all three hierarchies and poring over a wealth of studies on caste across many disciplines, i began to compile the parallels in a more systematic way and identified the essential shared characteristics of these hierarchies, what i call the eight pillars of caste, traits disturbingly present in all of them." isabel wilkerson, , welcome back to democracy now! it is great to have you with us. i want to start by asking you about what just happen here in this country. you write in your book about dr. martin's working's month-long visit to india -- dr. martin luther king's visit to india in

when he visited with high school students whose families had been so-called "untouchables." to joet relates directly biden's choice as his vice presidential candidate, his running mate, senator kamala harris. she becomes the first woman of color to be nominated for national office by major political party. she is the daughter of immigrants. she is african-american. her father from jamaica and her mother from india. so she is the first indian-american to be nominated as well as african-american. if you can comment on the significance o of this? >> well, the significance of th i is thahat so many [indiscernible] to have someone e who is the fit woman of color, the first woman of african dissent, the first womann of indian d dcent to be

nominated [indiscernible] to think about how many barriers hahave been crossed, this is tan 244 years to get to this day. now we're going to go right to t the visit that you u write about in "casaste" " that visitt martin luther kiking m made in india. he was there in india for a momonth. he visited with high school students whose families had been untouchables. well, in a speech to the los angeles world affairs council in of 1965, dr. king describes his visitnd introduction that wawas given nf him by the pririncipal. >> as h he cameme to the e end s introduction, he said, i would

like to present to you a fellow untouchable from the united ststes of amererica. for the moment i was peeved, i was shocked that i would be introduced as an untouchable. ran backon my mind across to america. i started thinking about the fact there were so many places that i could n not go because of the color of my skin. i started thinking about the my 20 million brothers and sisters in the negro community of america still at the bottom of the economicladder, deprived of adequate housing conditions, unable to live in numerous

neighborhoods because of the color of their skin, i started thinking about the fact that my little chihildren were still judged on the basis of the color of their skin rather than the content of their character, and i had to say to myself, i am an untouchable. and every negro in the united states is an untouchable. amy: that is dr. martin luther king speaking in 1965 about his 1959 v visit to india. isabel wilkerson, you write differently about this journey and how you came to look at this country like others look at india come a talking about the centrality of caste. tell us more about dr. king's visit to india. in ell, he had arrived 1959, inspired by the country

gandhi whodership of had inspired his nonviolent approach to freeing african-americans from the grip of what he ultimatelely was identified as the caste system in unitited states. he arrives to visit at the school and as we so eloquently heard and reciting that expense, at first when he was introduced to the children, to the students there as an untouchable, the word landed a little oddly for him because he had not thought of himself in that way. as he considered that in his memories and experiences in recogngnition ofof all of the ts thatadad been restricted forr both himim and the 20 million other african-americans that he was fighting for, he himself, hadking recognized america the infrastructure a caste system t that was done is different from indiaia as we wod

might like t to believe.e. firstst ofbel wilkererson, all, congratululations on suchca marvelously written book. just as your earlier book wawasa marvrvelously written. i want to ask about a particular section of it where you write "caste is the bone, racece is te skin. caste is f fixed a and rigidid,e is fluidid and superficialal sut toto periodidilly definitions to meet the needsds of the dominant castee to what is now the e uned states." if you could expound for those of our viewers who have not read your b book yet, this relationsp that you try to delve into between caste and race? >> first, i want to say i came to thehe concept of race to the first book i wrotete which i was writing about the flight of 6 millioion africanan-americacanso were escaping g the jim crow soh posted in writing about whahat they endured, writing abobout wh

the jim crow south was actually like - -- a lot of americans not really gotten the true exposure to what it was like to live in that world where everyrything yu do or could not do was based on what you look like. it was against the law for a black person and white person to break bread together. i was re-creating that world. in doing so, i did not use the word racism because it did not seem to capture the t totality f the comprehensive nature of the control and boundaries. [indiscernible] ?hat is caste an caste systetem is artificial grading, graded inking of human value society, a fixed interest structure that in our country -- infrastructure and our country that predates anyone in our country, because back to colonial times when the country was being formed. a caste system determines wheree

i'm standing. the benefit of the doubt come access to reresources or the deprivatation of accccess to asources, things such companies and bebeauty. this is the hierarchy that we have all inherited, that no one alive created, boo we have inherited it -- but we have inherited it and lived under the shadow t that syststem. juananyou also w write about wht you call the e middle caste off asians quauality asians,s, and indigenous people anand ww immigrants of african n descent who you say navigate with what bebegan as a bipolar hierarchy. i am wondering if you can explaiain that and also whwhy yu chose to i include indndigenous peopople in the middle caste whn some w would argue that t certay inin the uniteted states and rtainly in latin amemerica,, there e is b been a l long exisg caste system tour the native peoples,s, whether it is peru, bolivia, ecuauador, mexico, andf

cocourse in e uniteted states? whwhat you felt the indigenous people should be i included amog this middle caste? >> first of all, the caste systemem as i am descrcribing ie hahave to go back k to where ben with the creation of the country in whichch the people e who wewe colonists, who are british, plplace themselves obviously at the top of the hierarchy and then brought people in from africa to be the enslaved people who woululd automaticically byy definitionon be at the very botm of the caste system, having no rights whatstsoever,r, not even rights over their own bodies. ththere also were the indndigens people who were the firstst nanations of this land who then work in some ways exiled from the caste system that was being created in a bipolar caste system. i also say in some ways they

were forced to be outside the caste system in ways the colonists device by forcing them off the land. the bipolar caste system meant there was basically t two main groups that were the foundation the country created sp anyone entering this bipololar caste system then had to figure out where did they fit in, had to somehow navigate what has been created as a two-tiered system. the infrastructure that have been createded had to actually assign to people the roles on the e basis primararily of what looked like and what youour lineage might have been, what part of the world did they come from. when people were arriving, say, from europe, they were not from outside -- northern europe, they were not necessarily thinking of themselves as whwhite. the white was not aa label that had been a applied or needed t e

applied, i should say, to someone who is l living in 16th-century of what would now be irelandnd or hungary or pola. in otherer words, peoplele arrig to thehe united states in the early decades and even century of history of the united states were not arrivings white people, ththey were arriving a s irish or polish or hungarian. upon arrival, they were assigned to thehe category of, the idea f race, a fairly new income going back only 500 y years, so they d to then navigate and readjust their identity in order to meet the expectations off this caste system t they were enterining. and so did other people coming from other parts of the world. latenited states in the 19th c century andnd early 20th century went through a great deal of trouble to cure this population, particularly those who are not coming from northern europe. anyone coming from outside of

northern eurure then had to be fit into this cacaste system, ad that meant there was a dissolutionmount o of and tremendous amount of restlessness about trying to figure out who would fit. there were a lot of legagal challengeses of pepeople comomim asia, people coming fromom other parts of the world, toto petitin for the recognition ultimately for the recognition of being able to fit into what would be the category of the predominant caste, which would have been white or caucasian at that time. this is a work in progress.s. it h has always beeeen a work in progress.. anyone coming from outside of what these polls t that [indiscernible] designations of human beings ended up having to find a way to navigate and it createded this stressor,r, the stressors d changes s between g groups i tro figure out how to survive -- ass

they tried to figugure out h hoo survive in a bipolar structure. amy: you bring in nazi germany, isabel wilkerson. if youou can explain how it was- the united statetes and the two crow laws that inspired the nazi s. explain n how that all fitits gegether with h cast > i have to say, focus in the beginning was to look for t the parallel of the intersections or point of intersections thatt would help us dederstand our own country, primarily focused on the united states could help us understand our own country through what we migight learn fm how other countries have mananad ththeir hierarchies. what broughtht me to germany was actually charlottesville a and t was there in a protest against the potential removal of the statue of robert e lee that the himself display the symbols of the confederacy and this oneparty in

space. we saw the pageantry of the symbols coming together overr te memory of the civil war, memory of slavery, amererican histotorn general. the rally yeaears are the ones that put these two together,r, these two cultures together, and that was the reason why i decideded to look at germany. i was looking primarily at how they had primarily managed to understand, , read educate themselves in society, atone for whatat had happened during world war ii. how had they remembered what had happened? the deeper i looked, turned out that i discover things i nevever would hahave imagined. one of them having to do with genesis were in contact with, continuing dialogue with americans in the decades and years leading up to the third reich that american

eugenicist notebooks that were big sellers in germany. nazi thenazis needed no one to teach them how to he. absolutely needed no inspiration for how to hatete how to access that hate. but what they did was send researchers to the uninited stas to study the jim crow laws hehee in thehe united states to study and to research how the united states had managed to subordinate and subjugate its african-american population. they s sent people to research laws, to study segregagation la, then they went back and they debated the american laws in the run-up to creating what would ultimately become the nuremberg laws. these were standing and wrenching things to discover in the process o of this work. amy: we only have 30 seconds left, but you relate e this s sy of talkingng to being deeply

to --nened -- talking >> 2042 is the year that was suggested i in 2008 by the censs as to be the yearr thehe demographihics of the uniteded states would change to configuratation that n no one ie country in any space had ever imagagined, and that wouldld be where the historic whitite majority would no longer be the majority and that impact the configuration we have known for all of american history would be chananging. that has an impact on eveveryone in the hierarchyhy, everyone in this country, everyone is decided to try to figure out how do we work toward a space in which everyone can feel seen and feel that they are recognized as citizens in this country. amy: we will do part two of this interview of this incredible

book "caste: the origins of our discontents." isabel wilkerson, pulitzer prize-winning journalist and winner of the national humanities medal. part two coming up at democracynow.org. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@d