09/04/20 09/04/20 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! you want to drive them crazy, you say 12 more years. amy: how fascism works. the politics of us and them. we will speak with your philosopher and scholar a propaganda jason stanley. he says nations don't have to be fascist to suffer from fascist

politics. >> vy y clear that loyalty to god.s the only reality is the greatest threat of fascism because fascism is based in power and reality is a way of responding to power. notou h have to make everyone connected to the truth and represent yourself as reality. you have to show you are stronger t than reality because fascism is about power. amy: than 50 years ago today, allende elected. we will look at the lessons he sees for today. in world-renowned anthropologist and activist david graeber has died at the age of 59. he helped come up with a slogan "." we are the 99%." we will feature part of his interview just days after the 2011 launch of occupy wall street.

each other, start talking to each other and brainstorming ideas. we're going to have to save ourselves. we're going to try to get as many people as possible in a public lace and d start rebuildg society as we would like to see it. amy: all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the quarantine report. i'm amy goodman. the u.s. death toll from covid19 by january 1.000 this according to a new projection f from the inflfluenl institute for health metrics and evaluation. that is more than double the current death toll which is approaoaching 187,000. ththe in situ projects the death toll could reach 3000 people a day by december. however, the institute is

prprojecting 12020,000 lives c d be s sedf 95% of the country regularly wears face masks. this comes as president trump openly mocked joe biden for wearing a face mask. pres. trump: didid you ever seea man who likes a mask as much as him? and then he makes a speech. not always, butut a lot of times he has it hanging down because you know it? it gives him a feeling of security. if i were a psychiatrist, right? no, i would say, this guy has got some big issues. amy: president trump made the remark during a packed outdoor rally in pennsylvania, where few people wore masks or practiced social distancing. the state of pennsylvania has banned outdoor gatherings of more than 250 people but the trump campaign openly violated the restriction. meanwhile, covidid19 cases are surging on college campuses across the country. more than 45,000 cases have been

reported since late july. the state university of new york, oneonta, has canceled in-person clasasses for the rest of the semester after nearly 400 students tested positive for coronavirus. the university of illinois at urbana-champaign has announced a two-o-week lockdown n after more than 70000 students becacame infected. the global death toll from covid-19 is approaching 870,000. on thursday, brazil became the second country to top 4 million cases. meanwhile, india reported nearly 84,000 new cases on thursday, the highest daily count for any country since the pandemic began. this comes as amnesty international isis reporting ovr 7000 h health care workers have died fromovid19, including 1300 in mexico and nearly in the 1100 united states. in other health news, the united

nations is warning the poverty gap between women and men is widening. the u.n. estimates 47 million more women and girls will be pushed into poverty due to the pandemic. u.s. marshals have shot dead an anti-fascist activist who was suspected of killing a member of a far-right group during a recent protest in portland, oregon. 48-year-old michael reinoehl was shot dead in lacey, washington, near olympia just hours after an arrest warrant was issued for him. lieutenant ray brady of the thurston county sheriff's office said four officers fired shots duriring the raid. >> there was a confrontation betwtween the officers that were on the scene and the subjectct. the e information that we have t ththis time is t tt the subjbjet was a armed. there were s shots that were fid into the vehicicle. the subject fled from the

vehiclclat which time there was additional shots were fired. amy: on thursday, vice news aired an exclusive interview with michael reinoehl who appeared to admit to shooting aaron danielson, a member of the far-right patriot prayer group. >> i felt ththat my life and otr pepeople arounund me's s lives n danger. and i felt like i had no choice but to do what i did. aey want to pick up -- paint picture of antifa major involvement. a lot of people don't understand what antifa represents. if you just look at the basic definition of it, it is just anti-fascist and i'm 100% anti-fascist. i'm not a member of antifa. i'm not a member of anything. honestly, i hahate to say it, bt i see a civil war r rht aroundd ththe corner. that shot felt like the

beginning of a war. amy: the mayayor of rochester,rw york, has suspended seven police officers involved in the suffocation death of a black man named daniel prude in march. the decision came one day after the man's family released shocking video of his death. prude died from asphyxiation after officers handcuffed him, put a hood over his head, and then pushed his face into the freezing cold ground for two minutes while kneeling on his back. prude was naked and unarmed. rochester mayor lovely ann warren apologized to prude's family. faileddaniel prude was by our police department, our mental health care system, our society, and he was failed by me. amy: daniel prude's daughter tashyra prude appeared on cnn on thursday and called for the officers to be fired. and charged with murder.

>> i would like to see them be fired and charged with murder. there is video footage of these people suffocating my father. my father was murdered by these police officers. there is no reason why they should be on a paid suspension. they should be arrested and they should be tried. amy: prorotesters gathereded oue the home of washington, d.c., mayor murielel bowser r on thur, onone day afafter police shot dd deon kay, an 18-year-old black teenager. bodycam footage released by the metropolitan police department shows that kay had a gun but that he threw it away before an officer shot him. monica hopkins of the aclu of the district of columbia condemned the police response. she said -- "the tragic shooting and death of 18-year-old deon kay is the logical conclusion of a policy that not only meets violence with violence, but actually escalates and incites it -- especially in our black communities."

on thursday, democratic presidential nominee joe biden visited kenosha, wisconsin, to meet with the family of jacob blake, a black man who was paralyzed after being shot in the back at point blank range seven times by an officer. biden also spoke on the phone to jacob blake, who remains hospitalized. bind coat as i got off the airplane, had any for two to dispense some time with jacob on the phone. he is out of icu. minutes.for about 15 he talked about how nothing was whether defeat him, how he walkeked again or not, he was not going to give up. amy: biden's visit came two days after president trump traveled to kenosha, wisconsin, but never once said jacob blake's name. in economic c news, another 880,000 people a applied for ste

unemplmement befitits st weeee as t e econoc crcris continue as of mid-gugust, se 29 mimilliopepeopleere e coectingng someme form of unemployment insurance. in related news, workers at los angeles international airport staged a die-in protest thursday calling for healthcare benefits to be extended to laid off airport workrkers. mamaria hernandez is an orgaganr at unite here local 11. plus we did a protest here today with dozens of workers because we are calling on lax and the airport commissioner to help extend coverage for thousands of workerers that have been n laidf dudue to covid19. amy: election officials across the country are criticizing president trump are continuing continuing to encourage supporters to vote twice in the upcoming election.

massachusetts secretary of state maura healey tweeted -- "it is illegal to vote twice. it is also easy to get caught. that's like paying yourur taxes with monopoly money." attorney general william barr refused to criticize the president's remarks during an interview with wolf blitzer on cnn. >> he is trying to make the point that the ability to monitor this system is not good and if it was so good, if you try to vote a second time, would be caught. if you put it in person. >> that would be illegal. if somebody mailed in a valid and then showed up to vote in person, that would be illegal. >> i don't know the lot is particular states as. >> you can't vote twice. >> i don't know the law and the partrticular states as. atlantic"c" magazine is repoporting president trump has repeatededly dispaparaged u.s. soldiers who died oror were wounded warar, descriribing thm as "losers" and "suckers." the magazine reports trump reportedly canceled a trip in 2018 to a world war i cemetery

in france where u.s. marines are buried because "he feared his hair would become disheveled in the rain." trump is quoted as saying "why should i go to that cemetery? it's filled with losers." trump also opposed the inclusion of wounded veterans in a proposed 2018 parade saying, "nobody wants to see that." president trump dismissed the report in "the atlantic" as fake news. in portugal, six young people have filed an unprecedented lawsuit in the european n courtf human rights agagainst 33 natios for failing to engage in adequauate actioion to combat te climate crisis. the lawsuit argues countries in the european union, as well as norway, russia, switzerland, turkey, ukraine, and the united kingdom have pushed for climate policies that are too weak to achieve the e objectives of the paris agreement. at least one person is dead after an oil tanker off the east cocoast of sri lanka burst intno flflames thursday. the tanker was carrying more than 2 million barrels of crude oil from kuwait to a port in

india. one filipino crew member died and it is unclear how much oil has spilled into the ocean. in academic news, a a george wawashington universrsity profer specializing in africa and the african diaspora has admitted she has lied about being afro latinx for years when in fact she is a white jewish woman from the suburbs of kansas city. jessica krug made the acknowledgment on thursday in a column she wrote for medium titled "the truth, and the anti-black violence of my lies." she said her career was built on a toxic soil of lies. she once described herself as an "unrepentant and unreformed child of the hood." she was also an activist in new york and recently testified by video to the new york city council. >> i also o want to callll out l of these w white new y yorkers o waited fouour hours wiwith us te able to speak a and did n yield their r time so blblack and brbn and d into digital - -- indigens new y yorkers.

amy: one of jessica krug's former colleagues, yarimar bonilla, has called d on her to start a fellowship fund for afro latinx scholars had "fund it with at least as much money as she obtained through her lies." in mexexico, beloved and pminent transgender activist mireya rodriguez lemus was found dead wednesday in her home in the state of chihuahua. lgbtq rights advocates say her violent killing was an act of hate and are demanding authorities investigate. this comes after the killing of another trans activist in chihuahua in march. the northern mexican state has one of the highest rates of killings of lgbtq people in the entire country. and the acclaimemed anthropologist, author, and anarchist david graeber has died at the age of 59. his influential book "debt: the first 5,000 years" made the case for sweeping debt cancellation. he helped organize the initial occupy wall street protest and was credited with helping to coin the phrase "we are the 99%."

in 2011, he spoke on democracy now! two days after the occupy encampment began. >> people have to go into their public squares, meet each other, start brainstorming ideas. going to have to save ourselves. we're going to try to get as many people as possible to camp and start rebuildlding socieiets weouould like e to see it. amy: david graeber once wrote -- joint of goat the hidden truth of the world is that it is something that we make and could just as easily make differently. we will play more of our conversation later in the broadcast. are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the quarantine report. i'm amy goodman. >> four more years. four more years. four more years. for more years. pres. trump: if you want to really drive them crazy, say 12

more years. them doingcaught some really bad things in 2016. let's see what happens. amy: 12 more years. that was how donald trump kicked off the republican national convention from north carolina last week, where he flew for the roll call vote. the convention came amid a nationwide uprising against police brutality just days after the shooting of jacob blake in kenosha, wisconsin, and while people continued to demand justice for breonna taylor and george floyd in the streets. but vice president mike pence did not say their names when he addressed the rnc. instead, he focused on the killing of federal security officer david patrick underwood in oakland. vice pres. pence: we will have law andd order on the streets of this country for every american

of every race and creed and color. president trump and i know that the men and women who put on the uniform of law enforcement are the best of us. every day. when they walk out the door, they consider our lives more important than their own. people like dave patrick in theod, any officer department of homeland security's federal protective service, who was shot and killed during the riots in n oakland, califofornia. dave's heroism is emblematic of the heroes that serve in blue every day. we are privileged tonight to be joined by his sister angela. angela, we say to you, we gririe with your family. and america w will never f forgr

failil to honor officer dave patrick undederwood.d. amy: but vice prprident pencnce left out a a key part of the story. the man charged withth underwo's death was not a black lives matter activist, but a man with ties to the far-right "boogaloo" movement, which has used protests against police brutality as cover to carry out violence. pence did not mention kyle rittenhouse, the 17-year-old white vigilante who killed two protesters in the streets of kenosha last week. on monday, president trump refused to condemn rittenhouse, saying the gunman probably would have been killed had he not attacked the protesters. this comes as president trump has openly embraced supporters of the far-right conspiracy theory qanon, describing them as people that love our country. last month, he refused to question the central plank of the conspiracy theory when questioned by a reporter. >> the theory is the believe

that you are secretly saving the satanic cult of pedophililes and cannibals. does that sound like something you are behind? pres. trump: i have not heard that, but is that supposed to be a bad thing or a good thing? if i can help save the world from problems, i am willing to do it. amy: earlier this week, in an apparent reference to the qanon conspiracy theory, trump claimed democratic presidential nominee joe biden is being secretly controlled by people in the "dark shadows." he made the comment during an interview with laura ingraham of fox nenews. pres. trump: i don't even like to mention biden because he is not controlling anything. >> could you think is pulling bidens strings? pres. trump: people you have never heard of. people in thehe dark shadows. plugs that sound like conspiracy theories. pres. trump: people you have not heard of.

people that are on the streets, people that are controlling the streets. we had some to get on a plane from a certain city this weekend. in the plane, itit was on was compleletely loaded with thugs wearing ththese dark uniforms, black uniforms with gearr and this and that. i will tell you sometime, but it is under investigation. amy: president trump provided no evidence to back up his claim about thugs on planes. he initially claimed the plane was headed to the republican national convention. on tuesday, he told reporters the plane was going from washington to "wherever." nbc reports trump's claim is very similar to a conspiracy theory started in june by a man in idaho that went viral within far-right cicircles on s social media. well, to connect these dots from the republican national convention to white supremacists in the streets of u.s. cities to the president's embrace of fringe conspiracy theories, we

are joined now by professor jason stanley. he is a renowned philosopher and scholar of propaganda who wrote the book "how fascism works: the politics of us and them." professor stanley is the child of refugees of world war ii. he is a professor of philosophy at yale university. he joins us in new haven, connecticut. welcome back to democracy now! you are on when the book was first published two years ago. trump middle of the presidency. and now either we are nearing the end or he will be reelected again. but talk about what you just listened to and why you feel your book "how fascism works" is more relevant than evever. >> fascism is a cult of the leader who promises national rerestoration in the face of supposed threats by leftist radicals, m minorities, andnd immigrants. he promises only he can save us.

cult to thewe saw a leader.. the rerepublican saidd not e evn bother to provide a platform. they just said, whatever trump wants. we saw four of the six long speeches given by trump. it is warned that the first step toward authoritarianism is when a political party starts to value party over party. meaning, one political party treats other political parties not as legitimate opposition but as traitors to the country. the next step is when that political party that engages in this kind of behavior just becomes taken over by social and political movement devoted to one leader. and that i fear is what we are saying. when i published my book two years ago, people accused me of hysteria, exaggeration, and they

listed reasons why we should not be afraid of fascism in america despite its deep roots in this country. and the reasons they have given i am afraid have fallen to the wayside. they have given reasons like the institutions remain independent, the justice department remains independent. they have given reasons like there are no right-wing militias tacitly endorsed by the administration. the naziour attention government refused to condemn ,he violence of right-wing far-right violent people on the streets attacking juice. they refused to condemn n them. they did not endorse them. they just refused to condememn them. that wasas giving them permissi. we have seen four yearsrs of chs here and yet we are being told that this is l law and order. so we are saying militias on the

street endorsed by the president. we are s saying the administratn echo a conspiracyheory thatat looks really a great deal of the protococs of the e elders ofofi, which is ththe early y 20th ceny conspiracy thatt judeo bolshevis were behind liberalism and controlling the media, control the cultutural instititutions, withrs were in cahoots media and the art world to bring about world communism. we saw that at the rnc. senator tim scott talked about manhattan police and hollywood moguls supposedly trying to bring socicialism to the united statates. eliteixture of f wealthy and communist is reminiscent of sosome of the worst conspiracy theories o of the 20th century.

so i am very concern here. we are saying -- people said, it is n not fascism because they ae not attacking democracy. well, what are the attacks on the elections about if not attacks on dememocracy? so whilele i don't think trump himself has a vision, some kind as titimothyon snyder h has calleled it, this s not even fascism. i think we are seeing a structure emerge with figures like stephphen mililler with alf this white supremamacist idea lobebes in this admiministration at could briring about definitely a turn to authoritarianism. it is definitely an attack on democracy that the rnc represented. amy: i want to go to -- back to the republican convention to president trump, formerly accepting the nomination before a crowd of about 1500 people crowded onto

the south on of the white house. during his acceptance speech, trump a no reference to the police shooting of jacob blake in kenosha, wisconsin, or the killing of the two protesters that had just happened in whitea by a 1 17-year-old trump supporting vigilante. iss. trump: when there police misconduct, the justice system must hold wrongdoers fully and completely accountable, and it will. but when we can never have a situation where things are going on as they are today, we must never allow mob rule. we can never allow mob rule. [applause] strongestp: in the possible terms, the republican party condemns the rioting, looting, arson, and violence we have seen in democrat-run cities like kenosha, minneapolis,

portland, chicago, new york, and many others. democrat-run. there is violence and danger in the streets of many democrat-run cities throughout america. you professor stanley, as have a white officer shooting at point blank range seven times in just daysacob blake before and then two black lives matter activists shot dead in the streets of kenosha by a trump supporting gottman, no mention of them but talking about mob rule in the streets somewhere ofof cities that are n by democtsts. >> ok, so two chapters of my book -- my book is a 10 part characterization of fascist tactics. there are two chapters that are deeply relevant for what is happening now. obvious the, chapter seven, law and order. in chapter ninin solomon tomorrow -- sodom anand gomorra.

chapter two of h hitler'ss books cacalled my study and strugglesn vienna and he talks about his time in vienna, city, the capital of austria, filled with foreigigners, d dirty andnd disd calls was it differently which is, filled with immigrants, and then they did minority group which for him were jews. what was he is a repetition of this tactic. an attack on cities. hypocritical, ofof course, trurp is from queens. but what trump is doing is trying to represent cities as filled with foreigners, minorities, and disease. earlier he described new york city as filled with -- as didisease-written and i thinink yesterday or in the last 244 hours,s, he said he blamed the covid deaths on new york city. so the idea is an attack on cities are dens of iniquities of foreigners, real americans l let outside the city, and the cities

are where you have mobs out of control, immigrants, sanctuary cities. thisis is a classic tactic of ts kind of far-right fascist politics. in the law and order. quarters meant by law andnd here? kyle rittenhouse who murdered two people, killed two people, radicalized 17-year-old. he is not a violation of law and order because white trump supporters are law abiding by their nature. the trump rally we saw in portland, shooting paintballs, aggressive against the counterprotesters, that was law-abiding. they were peaceful protesters because on this notion of law, young black man are in and of themselves violators of law and order. trumpt protesters against

can be doing nothing but rioting and looting. any protest --, skinny protest will have elements with that apples the become violets stop look at the hong kong protest. he became much more violent than anything we have seen her. nevertheless, they denounced it as rights. you know who denounced it as riots? the chinese government. what we're seeing here is our government behave like the chinese government must've representing largely peaceful protests with some bad elements astat should be conondemned riots. that is the counterinsurgency authoritarian tactic. to the last four years feel like law and order? that very speech that we witnessed at the rnc was a violation of line order because

it was given from white house grounds in violation of the hatch act. and probably so. this administration revels in its violation of law and order. law-abiding means whoever the leader is. lawless means the men of the leftists andp in radicals, supposed leftists and radicals. cory booker will help joe biden destroy peaceful suburbs by bringing low-income housing crime -- this is trump speaking to fox news monday night. pres. trtrump: you have this beautiful community in the rightht?including women, they what security. i ended where they build low income housing project in them love your neighborhood. i candidate. if biden gets in, he said he

muchit t will come at a higher rate. you u know who is gog toto be in char? we booooker. amymy: cory booker, the presidet says. professor stanley? >> there's no evidence at all that cory y bookerer, senator, african-american senator from new jersey, is going to be running any such program. he throws his name in. he mentions women. why y does he mentioion women? this harkekens back to what langston hughes called nativeve fascism. this harkens back k to the worst moments in american history. the history y lynching. ida b welells, the great ida a b wells,s, the great antililynchig activist and intellectual and racismist said, look, and sexixism go together. theyey are treating white wowoms --timims who need to be [no audio]o]

the random people can of cory booker is a case in point. ida b wells is sadly moree relevant than ever. amy: jenna republican convention, speakers used apocalyptic language to describe the dangers of the biden. this is from turning point. looks we may not have realized it at the time, but trump is the

bodyguard of western civilization. trump was elected to protect our families from the vengeful mob that seeks to destroy our way of life, our neighborhoods, schools , churches, and values. president was elected to defend the american way of life. amy: charlie kirk,k, founder of the right-wing student group turning point. professor stanley, respond to this and people raising her eyebrowsws and sayining, come o, nazi germany? >> that speech is highly evocative e of a spepeh that the nanazi propaganda minister gaven 1935 called "communism with his mask off." thats speeches, including one which i encouragage people o look u he regularlrly represents the threat is bebeing a threat o western n civilition. he says s the nazii party is gog

to protect social conservatives, christians from the armageddon of communism, which seeks to deroroy civilizatioio hehe said the commumunists are n cahoots with the international underworld, so that is the link between communism and crime and susuosed lawless crime. so you have the same idea here. there's trump on the one hand protecting chrhristianity, protecting western civilization, and anyone opposed to trump is a lawlesess mob in cahoots with communists seeking to destroy civilization itself. in this is the friend enemy distinction that is so antithetical to democracy. amy: what about science? science the denial of all over that trump is doing from pushing hydroxychloroquine despite all the studies to now apparently with warp speed as the operation might well be accurately named, pushing a

time for thein election when scientists all over this country are saying this is dangerous and it is undermrmining peoples leaf in science? it was unclear which countries would do worse with covid. but you started d off this p prm by listiting the countries t tht haveve done w worse -- brazil, united states, india, and d rusa as well. so i listed those countries. i predicted those countries would do worse, even though some said, ththey have supposedly ststrong leaders. i prpredicted they wouldld be we because these leadeders r reject science. as thesect sciencece attitudes -- i'm not comparing

their hypers toazi, nationalist leaders that see the friend-enemy distinction. as hitler's says, science is just a tool of nationonal glory. the only way such leaders are going to dragcientists up to the podidium is if these scientists are yes-men for the leader, praise the leader. ththat is all thiss pololitics . yoyou're either with u us or agt us. do notence by its nature have a site. they do not pick a side. this science is incompatible with these leaders. these leaders s are going to pik scientists that just praiaise te leaderss and t tell the leaderss whatat they want to hear. and what we have undererlying ts is an ideologogy of sococial darwinism. an ideology that i is very clelr s response tonaro'

covid19. we have the weweaponization of eveverything. lilike there is no america. there is just us s and them. as we e have seen, the trumpet administrationon backs off from w whenfocusing on covid19 they came t to believe it w was largelely a disease of essentntl workers. that iss larargely black a hispanic ameririns, and ththey believed it was relegated mostly to democrat-run citities. thinking, there's just friend and enemy. when there is just friend and enemy, science has no role. it is really just a tool of national glory. amy: jason stanley, thank you for being with us professor of , philosophy at yale university and the author of five books, most recently "how fascism works: the politics of us and them." next up, 50 years ago today, salvador allende was elected president of chile. we will speak with his former

advisor for the time e was dancg in the streets of saint? . stay with us. ♪ [music break] amy: "get up stand up" by the wailers. ththis is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. our next guest writetes today in the "los angeles times," -- "50 years ago today, on the night of september 4th, 1970, i was dancing, along with a multitude of others, in the streets of santiago de chile. we were celebrating the election of salvador allende, the first democratically elected socialist

leader in the world. president allende's victory had historical significance beyond chile. before then, political revolutions had been violent, imposed by force of arms. allende and his left-wing coalition used peaceful means, proclaiming it unnecessary to repress one's adversaries to achieve social justice. radical change could happen within the confines and promises of a democracy." ariel dorfman went on to become the cultural and press adviser to president allende's chief of staff during the last months of his presidency in 1973. he continues -- "i have often fantasized about how different the world would be if allende had not been overthrown, three years later, in a bloody coup. i wonder where humanity would be if his peaceful revolution had beenen allowed to o run its coue d d become a t template for othr countries.s." those words frfrom tay'oped in he los aeles tim" by our ariel rfman, t chilean-erican bt-sellin author, man righ defende playwrht, poeand stinguisd profesr emerit of literure at dukuniversity

ining usow from duam, noh caroli. weelcome y back toemocracy nonow! lk abouthat happed 50 years ago, th way tord cialist igoing arounin the united stas the leers of this cntry andhat you e arthe lesss frochile. i its greaeato be back th yo amy. it w a peaeaful rerelution. theashe attem tout sources the cntry a a the fure of thountry io the hands ofhe mority che. chilecabin a count that had inedibible poverwhere mo ofofur resrces wer c contrled from arican coanies, wre thland wasot tild -- was tilledy the pele but tho pele did n g get t riche moventasasically a

r social justicend for puttininto theenter of historthe realrotagoni of at hisry, everay men a won who bui the cotry- the pele who s prai now but generly left behi and negcted and footten. istory, a ment in but verymportantecause allende was sayg to theorld, we do noeed to repress, eliminat senr our adversars. weon'need toill othe pele in ord to have cial justic we can do is throu peacefu means. allend jns gandhand mart luth king anso many other wonderful people of history saying, there is a way of changing the realility, of changing everythining -- we do't have t to leave the world in the

same way in whihich we fofound . we can create a different world ahead of us. and it was a wonderful experiment. it was an experiment that lasted 1000 days. but those 1000 days, wonderful things happen. amy: i want to go to today to the republican national coention to the former governor of south carolina, then the u.s. ambassador to the united nations nikki haley. >> a biden harris administration would be much, much worse. last time jo's boss was obama. this time, it would be pelosi, sanders, and the squad. their vision for america is socialism. we know socialism has failed everywhere. they want to tell americans how to live and what to think. they want a government takeover of health care. they want to ban fracking and kill millions of jobs. they want massive tax hikes on working families.

joe biden the socialist leftt would be a disaster for our economy. amy: that is nikki haley. of course, president trump repeatedly talks about socialism. this wasas at the state of the union -- pres. trump: tonight we renew our resolve that america will never be a socialist country. , pleaseel dorfman respond. looks i would be glad if america were a socialist c country becae then people would not be starving. there would not be racism the way we have got it. everyonene would have health cae and the economy would be much, much better. socialism -- socialism is on the ballot. health care for all will be on the baballot. infrastructure will be on the ballot. racial justice will l be on the ballllot. therere lots of things that will be on the b ballot. trump is simply deranged. he lies about everything.

when your previous guess professor stananley spoke about fascisism, remembeber two very different ththings. first of all, the whole campaign against allende dururg the allende government was exactly what professor stanley speaking about. we are diseased come along order, we're going to rape your women -- of course the people who ended up raping women and children were the fascists who took the reins o of governmenent after they o overthrew allende. they spoke about foreigners infiltrating the country. every one ofof those litittle fascist things that you mentioned was part of the campaign against allende, which was in great measure paid for by the cia a and kissinger. besidedes that, when pinochet tk

power in 1973, the whole policy of the pinochet government was exactlyy what professor stanley is saying,g, taking the exact se point. -- people will have to decide whether sweeping changes going to come. i think the country is ready for the sweeping reforms, just like the sweeping reforms that we had to do in chile. because there are moments when you need to change things drastically in orderer to make ththings better. in fact, joe biden and harris are a party to security. they are the party of stability, not the party y of chaosos. anyone is creating chaos, it is people like donaldld trump ad hihis enablersrs. they will go down in history as accomplices to murder. amy: i daresay that -- >> mass murder, not just general murder. amy: let me ask about the u.s. topping 6 million cases of

coronavirus. 187 thousand deaths, could be 400,000 by january 1. you say the pandemic is teaching americans what it is like to lilive in exile. explain. exile for a great part of my life and have been an immigrant for a great part t ofy life.. we are used to distatancing. we are used to discovering and distancing the capacity we have to connect with one a another. if you think about the immigrants come immigrants have come into a country and when we come into this country, we see every thing with new eyes. i am suggestingng thatt expenses one americans are going to have to have. i'm suggesting even confinement may lead to enormous advances in literature and art will stop some of the greatest art -- i have a novovel that just came ot decree tobout --

greatest novel of all time. an extreme confinement.t. some of the greatest literature has been done in exile. when your distance from others, when you've lost everything, when you've lost her country and you have to rethink everything. or in confinement, when you're isolated and you have timime to look in yourself and say, what isis the real l meaning ofof li? what is real happiness? how will we connect with one anothe seek and i imagine someththing new? i would d not wish what is happening on t the worstst of my enemies, but this pandemic is a chance for us to think again about what it means to be isolated, what it means to lose a country, whatt it means to loe everyday life, what t it means o not go to ththe funeral of the people we loveve, not to be able to hug the people we love -- like immigrantnts all ovover the world. we can't do that, right?

we are s separated frorom ourse. think newhat pain, i things can be born. we rise from the ashes. wiwith our imagigination, compassion, ouour ability to thk and rethink k the world in different t way. i think that is what is really going to happen in the next few months. we have to decide whether we are goining towards a a different st of future. imagine the possssibilitofof tht future. for the stranglehold of the past and die in that as many people will die because of it. dedeath is on the e ballot. death is on the ballot this november. amy: ariel dorfman, thank you for being with us, chilean american best-selling author, human rights defender, playwright and poet. op-ed. link to your

he was cultural and press adviser to president allende's chief of staff during the e last months of his presidency in 1973. died septembere 11, 1973. the authoritarian dictator aggressive initiate supported by the nixon government in the united states rose to power.r. pinochchet killed thousanands of people in the years to come. when we come back, we remember david graeber in his s own word. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: "upon this hill" by j. halle fefeaturing g david grgra. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace e report.. i'i'm amamy goodmaman. as we inin today show with the oakland anthropologist, author, and anarchist david graeber, who venice,the age of 59 in italy. david was a veteran of any international anticapitalist movement that pushed for a different vision of globalization, not of capitalist markets but of human liberty and worker power. his influential book "debt: the first 5000 years" made the case

for sweeping debt cancellation and was dedicated to kenneth, a vet at the spanish war, his father. david graeber helped organize the initial occupy wall street andest september 17, 2011, was credited with helping to coin the phrase "we are the 99%." he wrote on his website -- in 2011, he spoke on democracy now! two days after the occupy encampment began. >> it was sort of thrown out into the blue. magazine based in toronto. they're quite far away from wall street. they had this conception and they thought they could bring it into being.

a bunch of us showed up relatively unprepared for what to expect on august 2 when they called a meeting. after a little bit o of uncertainty, we started putting together process. thiscided to model horizontal direct democracy in europe. wall street was -- amy: explain what you mean by general assemblbly and exactly w the process started on saturday. >> what people are doing in europe is essentially try to reinvent democracy. the idea is all of the political parties have basically bankrupted themselves, bought and sold b by the financial elie that created this crisis. there's no possibility of their actualally coming up witith solution. sometimes we have to start over. people need to go and start brainstorming ideas.

the system is not going to save us, we have to save ourselvlves. we need people to camp in a public space and start rebuilding society as we would like to see it. debttalk about cancellation. >> one of the things i discovered in researching my book is the debt crisis we're that whichow, affects ordinary people, debt between the very wealthy or between governments cannot always be renegotiated and always have been throughout world history. they're not anything set in stone. it's, generally speaking, when you have debts owed by the poor to the rich that suddenly debts become a sacred obligation, more important than anything else. the idea of renegotiating them becomes unthinkable. in the past, though, there have been mechanisms, when things get to a point of real social crisis, that have always existed. and they vary by the period of history. in the ancient middle east, often new kings would simply declare a clean slate and cancel

all debts, or all consumer debts, commercial debts, between merchants were often left alone. the jubilee was a way of institutionalizing that. in the middle ages, there were bans on interest taking entirely. there have been many mechanisms. but whenever you have what i call a period of virtual credit money, when money is recognized not to be a thing like gold and silver, but a social relation or promise that people make to each other, which has become increasingly clear since the when we went off the gold 1970's standard -- and i think 2008 really brought that home -- debts can be renegotiated. they're not set in stone. trillions of dollars of debt was made to disappear. we understand now that this is a political arrangement, and it can always be readjusted. and i think what the people coming to the squares -- and wall street now included -- are saying is that, well, if that's true, if democracy is going to mean anything now, we're all going to have to be able to weigh in on what sort of promises are made and what sort of promises are adjusted when you enter into a crisis. amy: we hear about debt

cancellation when we're talking about developing nations. what about the united states? >> well, the interesting thing is that most o of the developing nations have actually pulled themselves out of the situation. structural adjustment has come home to europe and america. i think itit would be a great idea. i think it would bring home that we really are in a different age, that money doesn't mean the same thihing as it used to. and ththere are people who have tried it. saudi arabia, actually most dramatically, that was their reaction to the arab spring -- they declared a debt cancellation. so there are precedents. i mean, they kind of don't want people to know that they did it, for obvious reasons, but they did. amy: and the crisis now in europe? >> the crisis now in europe is an example of the same thing. the austerity regimes that are being imposed now on europe and on america are remarkably similar to what happened -- you know, what used to be called the third world debt crisis. first you declare a financial debt -- a financial crisis. you bring in these people who are supposedly neutral technocrats, who are in fact enforcing this extreme neoliberal ideology.

you bypass all democratic accountability and impose things that no one ever possibly have agreed to. it's the same thing. and one reason it's happppeningo us now is that there wasas realy successful mobilization around the world against those policies. in a lot of ways, the global justice movement was successful. the imf was kicked out of east asia. it was kicked out of latin america. and now it's come home to us. amy: i want to thank you for being with us. and how long do you expect these wall street protests, part of which you helpeded to organize,o continue? >> as long as we possibly can. amy: that is david graeber speaking on democracy now! in 2011, 2 ysys after t the launcnf occupy wall street. he died wednesday at the age of 59 in venice, italy. we will link to the full interview at democracynow.org. david graeber once wrote "the ultimate hidden truth of the world is that it is something that we make and could just as easily make differently."

and that does it for our show. remember on this holiday weekend, stay safe, wear a mask, socially distance, save lives. happy labor day. [captioning made possible by democracy now!]

live fofor, then? ? to go to wor muusi [music playing, dogowowling