09/25/20 09/25/20 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from nenew yorkrk, this i s democracy now! >> will you commit here today for a peaceful transfer of power after the election? pres. trump: we wilill have to e what happens. i have been complaining very strongly about the ballots, and the ballots are disaster. amy: the election it could break america. as president trump refuses to election,the upcoming

excepting results if he loses, we will speak to pulitzer prize winning journalist barton gellllman of "the atlantic." how trump could throw the election and chaos and subvert the results. we will also he e response from senator r bernie sanders. sen. sanders: this is not just an election betwtween donald trp and joe biden. this is an election between donald trump and dememocracy. and democracy must win. amy: and we will speak to one of the powerful religious leaders in the country, bishop michael curry, the presiding bishop of the episcopal church. the first african-americacan to lead the d denomination. this elelection oururs in a time of global pandemimic, a tie when there is hardship, sickness, sufferin a and death, but the seselection also occucun the time of great d divisions..

divisions that are deep, dangerous, and potentially injurious to democracy. amy: all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the quarantine report. i'm amy goodman. for the second day in a row, presidident trump refused to commit to accepting the results of novembeber's election if his rival joe biden wins. trumump was asked about the election as he left the whwhite house thursday to campaign in north carolina. pres. trump: we want to make sure the election is honest and i'm not sure that it can be. i don't know that it can be with this whole situation, unsolicited d ballots. millions send to. amy: president trump's threat to invalidate the will of the voters sparked widespread alarm among democrats and progressives and some republicans. on thursday, vermomont indepepet senator bernie s sanders delivid a major address saying the future o of american democracy s at stakeke.

sen. sanders: we must ensure in this unprecedented momenent in american history that this is an election that is free and fair, an election in which voters are not intimidated, and knowing election -- an e election which all l votes are e counteanand tt it is an election which the loser accepts the r resultsts. amy: w we will hear more senator sanders' majajor addddress laten the brbroadcast. onon capitol hill, fbi direcectr chchristopher r wray told the se homeland secururity committee thursday he's seen no evidencece of the w widespread d voter frad claimed by president trumpmp amg mail-in ballots. >>ave not seen historically any kind of coordinateded natiol voter r fraud effffort in a majr election. other by m mail or otherwise. -- whether by y mail or otherwr.

amy: the fbi dirirector'r's testimony came as a u.s. attorney and an fbi field office in pennsylvania isissued an unusual statatement claiming they're investigating reports of tampering with nine military ballots. the u.s. attorney says the ballots were improperly opened with votes cast for donald trump discarded by elections officials. the trump campaign then seized on the announcement, saying -- "democrats are trying to steal the election." loyola law school professor justin levitt questioned the timing of the announcement, telling npr -- "it is the vital duty of government not to announce partial facts and 'potential issues' in pending investigations. indeed, it's quite improper to announce the fact of an inquiry. and grotesquely improper to announce whom the ballots were cast for, as if that mattered in the investigation." in louisville, kentucky, protesters defied a curfrfew for the secondnd straighght night ad marched to demand justice for breonna taylor, the 26-year-olod african american emt who was shot to death inside her own

apartment by plainclothes police officerers serving a no-knock warrant in march. overnight, kentucky state representative attica scott livestreamed her own arrest, alongside her daughter and 22 others, on charges of first-degree rioting, failure to disperse, and unlawful assembly. a day earlier, scott filmed as scores of heavily armed riot polilice flooded the streets of louisville following a grand jury's announcemement that nonef the officers who fed 32 bullets into taylor's home would face homicide charges. >> people marching down the street were met with literally dozens of police vehicles, officers hopping out with batons . amy: breonna taylor's family scheduled to speak publicly today for the first time since the grand jury's decision on

wednesday must of kentucky's governor and levels mayor are calling on the attorney general of kentucky too rigidly -- release the grand jury transcripts. on capitol hill, kentucky republican senator rand paul lashed out at the black lives matter movement, accusing it of targeting elected officials with what h he said was terrorism. >> their goal is terrorism. ifif you look at their exchanges online and social media, they''e saying their goal is to problem -- terrorize public officials and really, anybody. amy: protests demanding justice for breonna taylor continue in cities across s the united stat. in los angeles, a peaceful march for black lives was attacked by drivers in two separate incidents thursday evening, leaving at least one person hospitalized. there have been at least 69 products on black lives matter protesters since george floydd was killlled by minneaeapolis pe officers in late may. in tucson, arizona, the family of 27-year-old carlos ingram

lopez, who was killed in police custody in april, is demanding charges be brought against officers involved in his death, after pima county attorney thes that after they said officers would not face prosecution. ingram lopez died on april 21 after police pinned him face-down to the ground for 12 minutes at his grandmother's house. in police bodycam, he can be heard asking for water and his grandmother. at one point he says, "i can't breathe." coronavirus cases in the united states are rapidly surging in at least 22 states. the biggest incrcreases have ben seen across the e midwest and west, inincluding texas, arizon, and minnesota. on thursday, president trump rallied an estimated 15,000 of his followers at a massive campaign event in jacksonville, florida, with no social distancing and few people wearing masks. in virginia, public health officials are demanding the cancellation of trump's planned friday eveningng rally at the

newport news/williamsburg international airport, warning of a severe public health threat if the rally is allowed to proceed. an executive order by virginia governor ralph northam banans gathererings of f more than 250 people. inin iowa, the trumpmp administration has finined the operators of a beef $957hterhouse plant just after they failed to protect workers from contracting coronavirus on the job. 338 workers got sick during a major outbreak at the iowa premium beef plant. this week the occupational health and safety administration $1400 fine for record-keeping violations, and agreed to cut it in have after negotiations with executives. the associated press reports four other meat plants in iowa with major outbreaks received no fines at all despite hundreds of covidd cases and nine deaths at

the plants. at the uniteted nations generarl assembly, secretary-general and chinook iterisis warned the antonio gutteres said thursday t the coronavirus pandemic has killed nearly a million people, infected 30 million, and remains out of control due to a lack of preparedness, cooperation, unity and solidarity among world governments. >> this is a wake-up call for even more challenging that may arise. starting w with the climate crisis, if we meet t this withte same disarray thisis year, i i r the worst. amy: youth climate activists are once again taking to the streets around the world to join the fridays for future strike for the first time since the coronavirus pandemic began. student-led actions are taking place in south korea, the philippines, germany, sweden, and in over 3000 places around the globe. swedish youth h climate activist greta thunberg tweeted --

"we will be back next week, next month, and next year. for as long as it takes." inin the arctic circle 18-year-d climate acactivist maya-rose crg held a protest thihis week standing on an iceberg and surrounded by open ocean as arctic sea ice shrank to its second-lowest minimum extent on record. with greenpeace in the arctic. i am here to bear witness to see ice minimums. but i'm also here during the strike orerly youth climate, t trying to me e a statatement about how temporary this amazing l landscape is and how our leaderers have to make decisions now w in orderer to se it. amy: back in the united states, the e labor departmement report5 million u.s. workers filed new unemployment claims over the past week. that includes 870,000 applicants for regular state unemployment benefifits and a another 630,00o applied for r pandemic

unemployment assistance. some 26 million workers are now collecting jobless benefits. the census bureau reports 23 million u.s. adults live in households that don't have enough food to eat and an estimated one in four renters with children lives in a home that is behind on rent. this comes as lawmakers are poised to leave washington for an extended recess amid the worst economic crisis since the great depression. majority senate republicans have yet to pass a new coronavirus relief bill, more than four months after the house passed its $3 trillion heheroes act. donald t trump visited thehe sue court thursday, where the late justice ruth bader ginsburg lay in repose following her death last week at the age of 87. trump wore a mask as he and first lady melania trump posed next to ginsburg's casket on the steps of the court -- one of the few times trump has worn a mask

publicly since the start of the pandemic. members of the public who spotted trump on the steps of the high court erupted in a chorus of boos and chants of "vote e him out!" >> vote him out! vote him out! amy: as the protests grew louder, trump walked inside the supreme court. the protesters then switched their chant to "honor her wish." ginsburg's final statement, dictated to her granddaughter days before her death, read -- "my most fervent wish is that i will not be replaced until a new president is installed." trump has said he'll name his new nominee to replace justice ginsburg on saturday. republican senators have pledged to rush confnfirmation proceedis for trump's pick ahead of

eleltion day.. today ruth bader ginsburg will lie in state at the u.s. capitol,l, becoming the first woman and ththe first jewish person to receive the honor. inin immigration news, buzzfeeed reports the hohouse oversighght commitittee has found prisoners who have died in the custodydy f immigration and customs enforcement experienced medical neglect and says ice prison staff falsified records to cover up problems inside the jails. the report published thursday details deaths of immigrant prisoners that could have been preventable, including failing to transfer people to the e.r., or placing prisoners who are sick in solitary confinement with scarce monitoring. this comes as a separate congressional report issued earlier this week found prisoners in the custody of ice systematically receive inadequate medical, dental, and mental healthcare and face solitaryry confinement a as a punishment for speaking out.

mexican n authorities are preparing to issue arrest warrants that could target army soldiers for the first time in the ongoing investigation into the 2014 disappearance and presumed massacre of 43 students from a teachers' college in ayotzinapa, guerrero. reuters reports new warrants are also being issued for local, state, and federal police. this week president andres manuel lopez obrador said he'll confirm new information on the case over the weekend, on the sixth anniversary of the students' abduction. and in brazil, volkswagen has agreed to pay $6.4 million to former employees who were arrested and tortured after the car company reported them as subversives during brazil's former military dictatorship of the 1960's, 1970's, and 1980's. in a settlement with brazilian prosecutors, volkswagen admitted that it targeted union activists at its massive auto plant near sao paulo, where bosses spied on workers and reported outlawed newspapers and fliers to police. this is former vw employee

expedito batista. after thegen chased workers. they incarcerated us inside the factory. workers were handed over to the political authority at the time. timewagen's conduct at the was willful. the settlement does not completely satisfy us. we deserve more given our rights, but this is better than nothing. amy: the settlement will compensate victims who were arrested, beaten, fired from their jobs and then blacklisted, unable to find employment for years. brazazil's fafar-right presesid, former army captain ja bolsonaro, has prais b brazil'ss mimitary dictotorshiand hahas called for the rtorationf manyf its pocies. and those are some of the headlines.s. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the ququarante report. i'm amy goodman. when we come back, we look at president trump's statement saying he refuses to commit to

accecepting the results of the upcoming election if his rival joe biden wins. stay witith us. ♪ [music break]

amy: "people have the power" -- audio of a virtual gathehering y patti smith with michael stipe, joan baez, angelelique kidjo, ad many more as part of the climate week nyc 2020 and pathway to paris' 6th anniversary. this is demomocracy now!, democracynowow.org, the quararae repoport. i'i'm amy goodman. for the second day in n a row, president trump refused to commit to accepting the resultls of the coming electition if hihs rival joe biden wins.. trump was asked about the election a as he l left the e we house to campaign in north carolina. >> mr. president, are the election results only legitimate if you win?

preses. trump: we have to be vey careful with the ballotsts. we want to make sure the election is honest. i'm not sure that it can be. i don't know that it can be with this whole sitituation - -- unsolicited d ballots. millions being sent everybody. wewe will see. amy: president trump made a similar comment on wednesday when q questioned at a whi h hoe press briefing. >> will you commit here today for a peaceful transferral of power after the election? pres. trump: we will have to see what happens. i have been complaining very strongly about the ballots and the ballots are a disaster. >> the people are rioting. do you commit to making sure there's a peaceful -- july pres. trump: get rid of the ballots and we will have a very peaceful -- there will be a transfer, there will be a continuation. the ballots are out of control. you know it. you know who knows a better than anybody else? the democrats know a better than

anybody else. amy: trump's remarks have been criticized by both democrats and republicans. on thursday, senate majority leader mitch mcconnell tweeted -- "there will be an orderly transition just as there has been every four years since 1792." but at the same time, mcconnell is vowing to rapidly confirm trump's soon-to-be-announced nominee to replace ruth bader ginsburg on the supreme court -- earlier this week, trump admitted he expects the election to end up before the supreme court nominee because the election could end up before the supreme court. meanwhile, "the atlantic" magagazine has revealed republin party officials are looking at multiple ways to subvevert the election process to ensure trump stays in power. one option would be to have republican-led state legislatures claim the results of the election to be fraudulent, and then choose a slate of republican electors to vote in the electoral college regardless of the outcome of the actual votote.

we are joined right now by pulitzerer prize winning journalist barton gellman. his new piece is the author of several -- he is the author of several books including "dark mirror: edward snowden and the american surveillance state" and "angler: the cheney vice presidency." can you let out in detail exactly what you found are the plans not only being talked about that are actually being laid out all over the country, and also, what then surprised you most? >> the president is running a campaign that is premised on the win fort he may not will not win if all of the votes are counted. and he is looking for insurance policies. with traditional republican efforts to suppressss

ththe te o on electionon day and extends to this long campaign he has been running against mail-in ballot as a way of delegitimize groundwork lang the -- and laying the groundwork for a postelection or mid-cap chalallenge that w would be intd to stothe cocount. whatever results there are on election night. when because of the way he hasas defied it come the vote along partisan lines, there will be momore republicans he forecasts voting in person on election day and more democrats voting by mail with counts that will continue on past election night. 's way of stopping the overtime count, that everyone is expecting now because we're not

going to happen election night, we will have an election week, perhaps, or longer during which the provisional ballots and t te mamail-in ballots come absentee ballots, will be counted. things that some trumpp people are talking about is a maneuver that would start t by saying that the account has been poisoned by fraud, has been inged, is hopelessly mired unacceptable conduct. therefore, the count can't be relied upon. we are all accustomed to the idea that electoral votes a are the withuted based on the popular vote goes in a given state. if somebody gets the most votes

in my state, and that candidate gets that sick electoral -- it's that electoral votes -- gets that electoral votes. that is a decision that is made by each state because the cartoon of point no electric is given to state legislatures. circulating in the trump campaign some of its allies is that under some circumstances, they could ask state legislatures to take back that power and simply to point -- a point trump electors regardless of the vote count in the state. amy: explain what loyal electors are. >> t they are pledged to o one candidate or the other -- which electors are appointed dependsds usuaually on the outcome of the election. i say usually, i mean for the past 150, 175 years.

in theory, depending on s state law and otother complexities, republican legislature of the pennsylvania could choose to simply appoint electors who are pledged already the vote counton in that state is fraudulent or marred by fraud and therefore they're going to protect the will of the people by pointing trump electors. in the 2000 recount between bush ore, the republicans started down this road. the recount was still under and the date for the electoral cocoege was approaching in december when the

republican housese in florida passed a resolution to appppoint theectors in busch's name in senate was going to vote on the gore conceded the election. since i mention concession, it is the premise of my article, and i try to explain why,, that trump's strategy is never to concede. that he may win or he may lose, but under no circumstances will he can see this election. that is s a big problem becausee don't actually have a mecechanim for r forcing a candidadate to concedede. and concession is the way we have ended elections. hase is no grand umpire who jurisdiciction over the whwhole election, who can blow a whistle and say, the election is over, and make thatost,

stick. we have relied instead on the loser to accept reality when the time comes. amy: so you mention in your article that this will be the first election in 40 years to take place without a federal judge requiring the republican national committee to seek approval in advance for any ballot security operations at the polls. why is this oversight so crucial, barton? a back storyt give that helps explain that. 1981 the gubernatoriall election in new jersey, republican national committee organized what it called a ballot security task force -- that was the euphemism. composed of a lot of off-duty law enforcement officers, sheriffs, and so forth wearing guns, talking into radios,

wearing ballot security armed bands -- armbands who went to polling places in neighborhoods predominantly people of color, entering -- in trenton and new york, they challenge people's credentials, they gave sterern warnings about penalalts for ununlawful voting. they generally speaking, intimidated the voters and some poll workers, barging into closed areas, giving instructions to poll workers -- in some cases, physically preventingng poll workers fromom assisistg voters who needed help physically filling out their ballots, which is a normal funcnction. in the democratic national committee sued. after introducing evidence, quickly won a consent decree in

which the judge forbade a whole long list of intimidation techniques and required that the rnc would submit any plans it hahad for electionon day aberras to the judge for prior approval. and that lasted almost drug years. rnc persuaded the judge, 2018 to lift t this consent dedecree, to lift up preclearane order because there had been no recent violations by the rnc of the disintegrate. so i it was -- the logic was tht this concentrically was no longer needed. the rnc is now free to choose its own forms of election day operation, its own ballot security.

and we will have to see what happens, but the trump campaign and republicansns are recruiting what they're calling an army for volunteers,000 or so who will monitor security of the polls -- that means going into democratic areas and looking for suspicious people. jr. cignad trump, social media calling "able-bodied" peopople to join n election security y "army" for s father. >> t to steal thee selection foy father, president donaldld trum. they are planting g stories that president trump will have a lens lightly on election night, but will lose when they finish countiting thehe mail-in ballot. their plan is toto add millions fraudulent ballots that can cancel y your vote and overturnd the election. we cannonot let that happepen.

we need every able-bododied man, woman to join army for trumpmp's election security ration. amy: every able-bodied man and woman. and then trump calls into fox news to sean hannity saying we are going to have sheriffs and we're going to have law enforcement and we're going to have hopefully u.s. attotorney sticky close watch on these holes and states more likely to vote democrat or contested states like florida and texas. when you s say you're going have sheriffs come you're going to goingttorneys, people are to be afraid. you are forecasting a physical confrontation, talking about law enforcement officers, talking about able-bodied people. why did they need to be able-bodied? what are they facing here? what kind of atmosphere are they trying to crcreate??

amy: so when you started this it,e to when you published did you change your attitude? would people were saying, if president trump were to lose, you will never leave the white house, others weren't concerned about whether he could be taken out of the white house -- but this is a whole different story when you have an army of something like 1000 republican lawyers around the country who are going to challenge at every level, particularly focusing on mail-in votes, yet at the same time trump is not quite sure if he is being too discouraging of mail-in votingng for republican voters, so the same time he is telling republican voters, you can mail in your votes. >> he is. organizers were distressed, and some of them are still very much distressed, by

the campaign against mail-in ballots because they have relied for years on mail-in ballots to lock in votes before elelection day. if y you are trying to getet out your own vote, it is a big advantage if in the days and weeks leading up to the election you can induce people to send in their ballots -- tell you they have done so, therefore, are confident. let's say you've already gotten out 25% new be your votote and u can focus all efforts on election day on the rest. there are many senior voters who have relied on mail-in billeting for years. you don't want to tell your own voters if you are a republican that this method is now forbidden. there's been a bit of a mixed message where they have prevailed upon trump to say, well, these mail-in ballots are good and the other geithner bad. -- and the other kind are bad.

he's leaving himself lots of room to challenge the ballots as fraudulent. itthe way his son described in the clip you played is that trump will be winning on ofcection nightht andhen sort thousands and millions of fraudulent votes will be added fraudulently to the results in order to steal the election from his father. a phenomenonring to that is beginning to become fairly well-known known as the blueshift inin which you have oe vote count let's say on the morning aftfter the election tht is provisional, that is up to that point. and then you have any overtime count, which is counting all the latest reporting precincncts, te

provisionanal ballots -- which come from people who need to prove that they are eligible to vote, perhaps they recently was ad address or there name discrepancy that needs to be resolved -- and then there is all of thehe mail-in ballots. and they are slower the count because they're more elaborate. they are sealed in outer envelopes. have to authorities review the envelope, check the ,ignature, scan a barcode authenticate other d detailsls o they know it is a valid ballot before they even open it. then have to physically open of the ballots, remove an inner security envelope, which is shell, discard the outer put the security envelope into a pile to be opened again so that the ballots can be s scanned. that is just a whole process that does not exist for

in-person ballots. and most states for been election authorities to start doing this review and opening the outer envelope until election day itself. so there is no way that they can handle the volume of mail-in ballots now. so those are going to come in overtime, in the days following the election. for some reaeason, it is not f y explained, these overtime counts have trended democratic in recent years, sisince about thee past 20 0 years. so itt is known and predictable that the overtime count is going to shift blue.e. is tryings why trump deligitimate mail-in ballots and skewing the blueshift even more. he is guaranteeing that his own

voters will avoid mail-in ballots because they believe him . let's emphasize that what he is saying about mail ballots is made up out of whole cloth. mail ballots have been used successfully and with rare attempts at fraud for decades. just making that up. amy: especially democrats vototg more mail-in at this point during the pandemic because they see covid as real and more republicans see it as a conspiracy. >> that's right. that's right. but the advantage for trump dividing the electorate in this particicular way is that he can challenge mail votes without worrying very much that he is 'nvalidating his own voters

ballots. just by the odds, if you manage ballot at a mail-in every single when he managed to validate it is much more likely to be a democratic vote than a republican vote. amy: we just have a minute, but what are democrats and republicans who are deeply alarmed about this, indepependes and greens, doing to counter this? trying t to winre the battle of public opinion about the validity of mail-in ballots. not clear how will that works, but the president is exextremely good at creating impressions of chaos. fighting a 41 state legal battle that has been going on all year to ensurure that mail-in ballots are counted, to

try to get them counted early, the sort of beneath the surface struggle over the rules to make sure that every ballot is counted. to imaginee trying what trump will do that is out of the norm on election day and afterward during this interregnum between election day and inauguration day. and that is the crucial 79 dave evening that i focus on in my piece for "the atlantic." barton gellman, thank you for being with us, staff writer at "the atlantic." we will link to your piece there called "the election that could break america." bookatulations on your new "dark mirror: edward snowden and the american surveillance state" this is democracy now! as we end this segmentnt, let's hear from m president trump speaking to delegates at the republican national convention last month.

pres. trump: the only way they can take this election away from us is if this is a rigged election. we are going to win this election. what they're doing is using covid to steal an election. they are using covid to defraud the american people -- all of our people -- of a fair anand fe electionon. we can't do that. amy: on thursday afternoon, independent senanator bernie sanders s spokt respondingng to trump's remarks. sen. sanders:: i think it is terribly important that we actually listen to and take seriouslsly what donald trump is saying.. several l weeks ago, speakiningt the republican national convention, trump said, and i quote -- "the only way they can take this election away from us is if this is a rigged election." what is remarkable about that statement is that he made it at

a time when almost every national poll had him behind and when he was trtrailing in pollsn most battleground states. think about what that statement means. think hard about what that statement means. what he is saying is that if he wins the election, that's great. but if he loses, it's rigged, because the only way, the only way he can lose is if it's rigged. and if it's rigged, then he is not leaving office. heads i win, tails you lose. in other words, in trump's mind, there is no conceivable way that he should leave office. amy: and this is how independent senator bernie sanders of vermont ended his address. >> in this unprecedented moment, what can we as a people do in the struggggle to preserve

american democracy? first, it is absolutely imperative that we have by far, the largest voteter turnouout in american history and that people vote as early as possible. as someone w who is strorongly suppororting joeoe biden, let'se clear -- a landslide victory for biden will make it virtually impossible for trump to deny the results and is our best means for defending democracy. second, with the pandemic and a massive incrcrease in mailil-in vovoting state legislatures must take immediate action now, now, to allow mail-in votes to be counted before election day as they come in. in fact, 32 states allow for the counting or processing of absentee ballots, verifying signatures, for example, before election day. all ststateshoululd do thehe sa. the faster all ballots are counted, the less window t there

is for c chaos and conspiracy theories. third, the news media needs to prepare the american people to understatand there is no longera single elelection day and that t is very possible that we may not know the results on november 3. foururth, social med2d comompans must finally get their act together and stop people from using their tools to spread disinformation and to threaten and harass election officials. fifth, in the congress andnd in state legislatures, hearings must be held as possible to explain to the public how the election day process and the days that follow will be handled. as we count everery vote andnd prevent voter intimidation, everything possible must be done to prevent chaos, disinformation and, yes, even violence. lastlyly, and most i importantn,

the american pplple no mattete what their political view must make it clear that american democracy will not be destroyed. and b because senator b bernie sanders speaking in washington, d.c., thursdayay and his first major public speech h since bowg out of the presidential race. cocoming up, we e will speak toe of thehe most powerful r religis leaderers in the country, bishop mimichael curry of the episcopal church, the first african-american to lead the denomination. stay with us. ♪ [ [music break]

amy: "stay" by sharon van etten. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the ququaranti report. i'm amy goodman.n. the u.u.s. coronavirirus dthth l officicially p passed 200,000 ts weweek. on sunday, the washington national cathedral of the episcopal church marked the sobering milestone by tolling its bell 200 times -- once for every 1000 lives lost.

well, to discuss the lives lost and the extraordinary circumstanances the natition fas today, we spend the rest of f te hour with michael curry, presiding bishop of the episcopal church and thehe first african-ererican to lead the denomination. bishop curry is the descendant of enslaved africans and the son of the late civil l rightsts activistst reverend kenneth cuc. bishop curry gained worldwide recognition when he delivered a sermon at the wedding of prince harry and meghan markle in 2018, where he preached about slavery, poverty, and the enduring power of love. on that day, he later said in an interview he could "feel slaves around the place" and "it was like their voice was somehow heard that day." bishopop michael curry was previously the bishop p of the episcopal l diocese of north carolina -- a swing state that president trump visited just yesterday for ththe fifth time this month to campaign.

bishop m michael curry joinsns s now from raleigh, north carolina. we thank you so mucuch for joing us, bishop curry. your new book is "love is the way: holding on to hope in troubling times." bishop curry, welcome to democracy now! do you think love is enough? >> oh, without love, we won't make it. with l love, we will. but love myself, obviously, is not enough. love not only cash again, not talking about love as -- i'm talking about love as a result and moral commitment to particular way of living, a way of living that is unselfish,h, even sacrificial, a way of liliving that makes the well-beg of others as well as s the cell. that is a kind of love you see in the new testament thahat jess

learned f from mosys. that is the kind of lovove, if u will, that you see when jesus encountered a lawyer and they talked about -- the lawyer said, what must i do to inherit eternal life? jesus said, m what didoses say? love god and love your neighbor. jesus said do this and do that and you will live, will find life. the lawyer came back i she was a lawyer and comes back and says, could we more narrowly defined who is my neighbor? ththat was the poioint at which jesus told the parable of the good samaritan of f someone e wo helped someone else who was of a different ethnic group, probably a different set of politics, someone who was of a different religious take on the religious community, someone who is different, someone who was the other. this man helped that other person simply because they were a brother, a fellow child of god made inn god's image and

likeness. and jesus said, who is neighbor to that man? the guy says, well the one who helped him out. thou says, go and do likewise. i'm talking about the love that is for the other as well as the self, that is for god and for all of us. it is a love that seeks to create and make a better world, a more humane world, a more just world. without that commitment to love, that all of the actical details won't work. but with that commitment, we can find a way to solvlve our probls together, to bring everybody together bipartisan across the aisle, interfaitith, all races, all strtripes, and types, becaue we share one moral commitment to seek the good of others as well as ourselves. amy: what about president trump refusing to say -- refusing to commit to a peaceful transition of power? amlet me just say this -- i

an american. i love america and i believe in america's democracy. in this dedemocracy, there's a transition of power. that is one of the cornerstones, one of the great heritage of this country. so we must all stand for that. yet as president trump what he was talking about. let me tell you what i'm talking about. i'm talking about american democracy. this does not have to do with red or blue, not about rerepublican or independent or democrat, -- cannot i tell you something? one thing i have learned is we shared more values -- we share more values than we disagree about. if we can claim those values, one of which is -- are the basic principles of being a democratic republblic of democracy. some of those values are enshrined in the declaration of independence. we hold these t truths to be self-evident that all man, all people are created equal. that is a value of this c count.

the gettysburg address, that contains values of this country. you can go to the pantheon of this country above the columns of the supreme court, equal justice under the law. if we will stand togetether for the values that we share,, we wiwill find enough common ground to debate and dececide and solve our problems. that is democracy. that is america. amy: i want to ask about may, during the national uprising against pe si national guard and police officers dressed in riot gear fired tear gas, rubber bullets and flash bangs to disperse peaceful protesters across from the white house in lafayette square. moments later, president donald trump walked through the cleared park to have his photo taken with a bible in front of your church, saint john's episcopal church, often called the church of the presidents, which was boarded up. when he returned to the white house, trurump refused to o take questions from reporters as hehe pumped his fist and posed for

another photo op. this is what he said. tear-gassing could make that trip, mr. president? >> what are you doing about extensnsive police use of force? >> mr. presisident, is this stil a democracy? amy: bishop mariann edgar budde, head of the episcopal diocese of washington, d.c., immediately denounced trump's actions. this is what she said on the pbs newshour explaining why she spoke out. eventsas a confluence of in a very short period of time when the images of the president following the dispersal of the crowds that you mention following his extrememely inflammatory to my ears remarks in the rose garden, and then bringing his self and his entourage into our sacred space, using it as a backdrop and

holding the bible -- as if to put on thehe mantle of religious authority or blessing of what he had just said and done. i felt it was urgent to remove that association as quickly as possible and to ststate our position and faithfulness to the gospel as we understand it. presiding bishohop of the entire episcopal church. your thoughts on the use of your church in this way? this, i said it at the time, it doesn't matter to me whether it is a democrat or republican in the white house. it doesn't matter to me which side of the aisle someone is on. the church must not be used for partrtisan politicalalurposes.. the christian faith h is not up for sale to anybodydy. left or right, democrat or republican.

of the church building without anybody -- we did not know about it, the bishop of washington did not know, the parish pastor did not know about it. that is simply wrong. the use of the holy scriptures for partisan purposes by anybody -- by any partisan purposes byby anybody, that is wrong. it is wrong to remove peaceful protesters. if the president had gone across and ask the pastor of the church, can i go in and say a prayer for the country? we've got some problems. or if he had gone acroross and just simply sasaid to the camer, "i know there are people who disagree with me and there are people who agreeee with me, bute are all americans and we need to pray for our country," i could not object to that. that is fine. that is spiritual, moral leadership. but geez the church, the faith of christianity for anybody's religion come as far as i'm concerned, for partisan political purposes is

inappropriate and wrong. having said all of that, we have got to move beyond that. we've got to find a way in this country to work together, to exercise our boat to go out and vote and vote your valueues. i bebelieve that. vote your values. somebody said, what about people who don't share your values? that is their right in this democratic society. everybody must go out and vote. vote your values on propositions, for the candidate of your r choice. bubut here's what we must do moe importanantly, this gets back to the importance of the lovove i m talking about. we must find ways to come together and actually acknowledge and get to know eaeh other aseople. and don't think that is mere sentiment. bill bishop in a book talks about how america is basically -- has basically re-segregated its outpost of people lilisten o news media that gives the

reinforcement of the views they already hold. people who watch msnbc do not watch fox news in all likelihood and vice versa. --point is we have actually people who live in various of codes, we know there are blue zip codes and red zip codes and a couple of purple ones and different ones, but people livie together with people thehey alalready agree with. we must find a way to come together as people with differences, first, on common ound that t we are all children of god no matter who we are. amy: bishop curry, i want to get in a few other questions. one of them, scientific america, had not done this in his entire 150 year history, endorsed a presidential candidate. what can w we expect from religious leaders? >> religious leaders are moral leaders and we must articulate the moral value that we believe in. we b belve first i in the moral value in the primacy of unselfish sacrificial love.

we belelieve that all men, all people are created equal. genesis 1 says we are created in the image of got equally. and that means, for me, if we are equal in the eyes of god, we must all be equal in the eyes of the law and we must all be treaeated equally as children of god. that meaeans that there are -- that moral principle -- amy: will religious leaders be taking a stand togogether? >> now that -- you know how many religious leaders there are? i am sure there is a diversity of opinion among legislators on how to live out those values. but i think those values -- there are some who would not agree with me. well, i can't change their mind but i stand on the values of love, equality, human dignity. that means that i don't support policies that separate children from their parents at the border of this country. i don't support policies that do not respect the rights and grant

equality to all people in this coununtry regardlessss of the r, class, religion, sexual identity.n, gender we are all equal. that is a value i believe must be in public policy. amy: bishop curry, i want to ask about the amazing sermon youou gave at the royal wedding between prince harry and meghan markle which you preached about slavery, poverty, the enduring power of love. earlier this year, the couple resigned from the royal family, essentially. there's a peace in "the new york and writes -- from the first headlight listing straight out of compton and having exotic dna, the racist treatment of megan has been impossible to ignore. --ncess michael of cap born do you think they were forced

out of the church, that they took his stand or that they were forced out of the royal family, that they took the stand to protest racism? know. answer is, i don't let me tell you what i do know. what i do know is we in this country, because i don't know all of the details, but i know the united states of america and i know that we have some issues of racism that we must address that are deeply entrenched in our history. and we have to face those issues in that past. the reality of what is going on right now with the breonna taylor situation -- this woman who was innocent and she was gunned down, with george floyd. it goes back to emmett till. we have issueses that are long-standing that have deep roots in racism in this country. and we must face those questions nonow and work together to find ththe r reforms and the changest will be necessary to right the

wrongs. and then also to create the kind of community among us where there is room in space for all of us -- black, white, brown. amy: we have to leave it there. bishop curry, thank you for sami: weelcome to pararanambuco,

bbrazil. brazil, the land of samba, football, and beautiful people. but there's more to this place than the carnival in rio or the rainforests. i'm traveling to a lesser known region, at least from the western point of view--the northeast state of paranambuco. the last time i was here was in 2008. i got me a bunch of albums, local stuff. on the plane, after reaching cruising altitude, i ordered cachaca on the rocks and slammed in the earbuds. the music had me flying even higher. it was a traditional paranambuco sound fused with rock, funk, hip hop, and reggae. it was something cocompletely open-minded and