10/20/20 10/20/20 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> bolivia will once again be shrouded an economic growth like we had. this is the only political movement, the movement toward socialism. the political instrument for sovereignty for the people that has a vision for the country, is a program. that is why we won easily.

amy: former bolivian president pledges -- evo morales pledges to return to bolivia after his socialist mas party won sunday's election in the first vote since morales was ousted in a coup 11 months ago. morales' handpicked successor luis acre won sunday's election outright, avoiding a runoff. we will go to bolivia for the latest. then as early voting begins today in wisconsnsin, we will lk at the increase ofof voter suppression during the pandemic. difficult fort so people to votete here. just asking too much for people to come out with the virus going on. >> it t was a major elelection n the mile of f a pandemic. therere been more confusion aroundnd what isis allowed. > it was difffficult to requt an absentetee ballot. >> i did not know about that option, absentee voting. ballots are fraudulent

in many cases. amy: "whose vote counts" we will speak to journalist and professor jelani cobb about his new frontline documentary. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the quarantine report. i'm amy goodman. as the u.s. death toll from covid-19 tops 220,000 -- the highest in the world -- president trump has escalated hihis attackck on the nation's p infefectious disease expert, dr. anthony faucuci. during a campaign phone call, trump described fauci as an idiot. pres. trump: people are tired of hearing pyeongchang and police idiot -- these people. these people, if ouchi is a nice guy and has been here for 500 years. amy: dr. fauci responded by saying he just wants to focus on

combating the virus, saying -- "that's the only thing i really care about. that other stuff, it's like in 'the godfather' -- nothing personal, strictly business as far as i'm concerned. i just want to do my job and take care of the people of this country." while trump is attacking fauci, his campaign continues to run an ad that uses fauci's words out of context, falsely giving the impression that if ouchi endorses endorses the president's handling of the pandemic. thisis comes as cocovid-19 c cae surging again across the united states. on monday, nearly 60,000 people in the united states tested positive and 445 people died. in kansas, a coronavirus outbreak in a nursing home has killed 10 people and infected all residents and an unspecified number of staff. new mexico governor michelle lujan grisham on monday warned in a tweet -- "if covid-19 continues to exponentially spread like last week, new mexico will not have the health care and hospital capacity for every new mexican who needs care."

meanwhile, in california, governor gavin newsom has announced the state will conduct its own review of any covid-19 vaccine before it is distributed in california. on capitol hill, senate republicans are planning to move forward and measure on the paycheckrotection program today before a larger vote wednesday on a $500 billion bill . house speaker nancy pelelosi and treasury secretary steven mnuchin are in talks over a larger coronavirus relief package. democrats are pushing for a $2.2 trillion aid bill. in a victory for democrats and voting rights advocates, the supreme court has ruled pennsylvania election officials count mail-in ballots for up to three days after election day. a 4-to-4 tie on the court leaves in place a ruling from a lower court which extended the deadline to count ballots due to the pandemic and delays in postal deliveries.

voting rights groups warn the deadlocked decision by the supreme court signals trump nominee amy coney barrett will cast the deciding vote in any election disputes if confirmed. during her senate hearings, she refused to say whether she would recuse herself from an election case and refused to say whether a president should commit to a peaceful transfer of power. in other voting news, florida shattered its record for in-person early voting monday, as over 350,000 people lined up at polling sites to cast ballots. across the u.s., over 30 million people have already voted in the election, which represents around one fifth of the total number of votes cast in 2016. shattering all previous records. early voting starts today in wisconsin and utah. in more election news, the presidential debate commission announced monday it will mute the microphones of president trump and joe biden during parts

of thursday's debate. mics will be muted while the other candidate on stage is responding to the moderator's question in an effort to avoid the chaotic, interruption-filled scene that unfolded at the first debate. when president trump interrupted joe biden well over 100 times. evo morales said monday he will return to bolivia following his mas party's stunning victory in sunday's election. the former president, overthrown in a coup last year and replaced by a far-right government, did not specify a timeline for his return. his hand-picked successor, luis arce, celebrated his win early monday. >> we have recoverered our soul. the e people have mamade this possible with ththeir diipiplin. wewe recover this process of change for all. amy: the election was postponed twice by the interim government of right-wing president jeanine añez, who cited the pandemic. protests rocked bolivia for

months ahead of the election, condemning añez for delaying the vote, as well as her government's military and police violence against indigenous communities and supporters of mas. we'll have more on the elections in bolivia later in the broadcast. president trump has announced plans to remove sudan from the state sponsors of terrorism list in a move that paves the way for sudan to establish diplomatic relations with israel. the move will allow sudan to relieve its debt through international financial institutions, as well as court foreign investment. in other news from sudan, the international criminal court has begun talks with officials in khartoum over arrest warrants for senior political figures, including former president omar al-bashir, who was overthrown last year after a mass uprising and is wanted by the icc on charges of genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity. in nigeria, protests against police brutality show no signs of slowing down, even after police disbanded the controversial special

anti-robbery squad, or sars, earlier this month. tens of thousands of demonstrators took to the streets of the capital lagos in recent days, bringing traffic in the bustling city to a standstill. the capital is actually abuja. an estimated 15 or more people have been killed and dozens more injured since the demonstrations started. protesters also say they doubt sars officers will be held accountable for their abuses or that excessive force by police will be curtailed despite recent reforms. in news from the middle east, "the wall street journal" has revealed u.s. officials traveled to damascus in august to hold talks with syria's intelligence chief to discuss two missing u.s. citizens -- the journalist austin tice and a syrian-american psychologist named majd kamalmaz. this marked the first high-level talks between the two nations in over a decade. according to reports in the syrian press, the two sides also discussed sanctions and the u.s. military presence in syria.

this e er interview with austin tice's parents, go to democracynow.org. in palestine, maher al-akhras, a prprisoner who's been on hunger strike for 86 daysys to protest his indefinite imprisonment, is on the vererge of deathth accorg to rights groups. the 49-year-old was arrested by israeli forces in july but is being held without charges. from his hospital bed, al-akhras called on the international community to help free the palestinian people. he said -- "i refuse to give in to the decisions of this occupying state. i will either return freely to my childldren and to my people,r i will die without submission," tens of thousands of people have been displaced and dozens are dead after heavy storms battered laos,am, cambodia, and triggering massive floods and landslides across the region. in vietnam, 90 people are reported dead and dozens missing. in neighboring cambodia, at least 25 people have died. this comes as a third cyclclones

expected to hit the vietnamese coast in the coming days. in colombia, thousands of indigenous leaders and activists have arrived in the capital bogota, as they plan to join a national strike this week against the government's social and economic policies. unions, student groups, and others are also expected to participate in the massive protest to demand the government of right-wing president ivan duque end the violence and murders against social leaders in the country. this is one of the indigenous protesters speaking monday. >> what we want to do is debate with the government. the government led by president duque a. we want him to show his face, to debate the people. there are f four points. one is the defense of life. the r rendering arere social leaders. amy: the justice department inin the ununited states has annonoud charges against six russian military intelligence officers for hacking the 2017 french presidential election, ukraine's electricity grid, the opening

ceremony of f the 2018 winter olympics, as well l as investigigators lookining into e poisoning of former russian spy sergei skripal in britain. the russian embassy in washington dismissed the charges clclaing they were aimed at fueling an anti-russia witch hunt. nonene of the charged men are in u.s. custody. "the new york times" has revealed officials in the united states and four other nations have launched a massive tax-fraud probe targeting g a puererto rican-based banank owny the prominent libertarian investor peter schiff. hundreds of clients of euro pacific bank are also being probed for tax evasion. the bank is one of many boutique banks set up in puerto rico which has become a popular tax haven for wealthy investors. and the supreme court has agreed to hear two major immigration cases that are part of trump's hardline agenda. the so-c-called reremain in mexo program forces asylum seekers to wait in mexico while their claims make their way through the u.s. court system. the court will also review trump's diversion of $2.5 billion in pentagon funds,

without congressional approval, to build his u.s.-mexico border wall. the cases will not be heard until 2021. if joe biden wins the election, he could cancel efforts to move ahead with both plans. and d those are some othe headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the quarantine report. i am amy goodman in new york, joined by my cohost juan gonzalezez from his home in nenw jersey. hi, jujuan. juan: hi, amy. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and d around the world. amy: we begin today's show in bolivia, where former president evo morales' political party mas is claiming victory in sunday's presidential election. the twice-postponed election has not been officially announced but the centrist former president carlos mesa conceded defeat monday as exit polls show luis arce has won over 50% of the vote, giving him an outright win. if confirmed, it will put the socialist party back in power,

putting an end to the far-right government which ousted evo morales in a coup last november 2019. protests have rocked bolivia for months now, calling out the government's use of military and police repression and violence against indigenous communities. at a n news conference mondayayn buenos aireses, argentina, formr president evo morales respondedd to the elelection's outcome. sooner or later, we are going to return to bolivia. that is not up for debate. processes are many which are part of a dirty war and so many lies. bolivian brothers and sisters, with experience, once again will bring bolivia forward. we will pick bolivia up. in short time, bolivia will be enshrouded in economic growth like we had.

this is the only political movement, the movement toward socialism. the political instrument for sovereignty for the people, that has a vision for the country, has a program. that is s why we w won e easily. amy:y: that's formrmer presideno morales. this is prpresident-elect luis arce of the mas party responding to the election sults. >> w we have recovovered our so. the people have made this possible with their r disciplin. we recover this prprocess of change for all. amy: that's president-elect luis arce speaking to reporter ollie vargas, who joins us now from la paz, bolivia. we welcome you to democracy now! can you talk about the stunning victory that has come out right after sunday's election? explain who arce is and what this means for the mas party and

for the ousted bolivian president evo morales. >> thank y you for having me on and hehelping to shine a ligighn what is going on in bolivia. w won byy evo mororales margin of 10%, andd n now we haa margin of over 20%0%. extraordinary election. , hand-picked successosor evoo moralales, , be he was t the economy ministerr promised all of the perioiod -- almostst all of thehe past 14 ys of ourur ellis'' government in which h bolivivia went from thee .oorest to a thriviving economy bbc,inancial t time, institututio like the e imf wowd bank talked about a b bolivian mimiracle duriring evo morales'

peririod. wasp past six yearars, bolivia the fafastest growing ececonomyn the regionon. theyw went to pick u up where left offff. hohowever, huge chalallenge nowl be t the economimic crisis causd boboth by c covid-19, the lockdn memeasures, but also the seriesf neneoliberal refororms -- privatizatioion come up realizatation of the statete prprojects -- taking plplace bee the pandedemic and has carrieden since. the movement t toward socialism, ththe left, the keyy chahallengs rebuilding the economymy as t ty did in 2005. you have to rememember, evo morales, l lose our''s took powr swewept on the arce wake of popular protest in which waser president mesa

overthrown. bolivia was in a dire economic crisis at the time. taking out imf loans to pay public sector salaries, teacher salaries. built what he calls the social communitarian productive economic model based on the nationalization of natural resourceces and strategc industrieses and using those profits to invnvest in infrastrtructure, public servic, social benefits for r the peopl. he wililbe lookingng to rereild sayat model does you could destroyed thisis past year under the current government led by jeanine añez. juan: ollie v vargas, you mentioned carlos mesa. .e was the right-wing candidate could there have been a more clear choice for the people of

bolivia given the fact thahat ma hahad previoususly been both the vice president a and president beforere evo morales came to power? can you talk aboutut m mesa's rd the voters had any ability to judge when t they went to ththe polls? boliviansn n some ways, were kind of lucucky insofar as the two main candidates in the election had both been in power pretty rececently, in the living memory of most voters. the e carlos mesa government, he took -- he was elected as vice presesident in 2002 wiwith the widely hated former president 2003, when miami in after carrying out a series of massacres of indigenous.. in 2003.sa takes power

2003 have in 2005, a period of complete paralysis in bolivia.a. repressionto not use , mobilize the led to reagan's protesters as his presidential partner did. however, he insists on the plan of privatizing the country's natural gas and e exporting it ththrough c chile. that meant the social movement, some of which led by evo moralele continued, , continued the e neral strikikes, and thee cocountryy became ungoverernabl. the e imf were brougught in waso imf loans have been brought in --pay pubublic sector salararis the basic c costs of the statat. bolivia w was a disasastrous mot

in the twowo years in whichch cs mesa r ruled, wiwith thehe backg should say of the ununited stet. so p people have that in their mememories. pepeople also live through experirien thehe past 14 y yearf evo morales in which theheize of the ececonomy tripled, incomes f momost people t tripleded at thy least. those on m minimum wage, even further.r. unemployoyment was the lowest in the region. bolivia had the highest rate of gdp growth than any other country in the region. so people have both of those experiences. bolivians have ththe information with which to mamake a c choiced 52%, 53% of the country voted party movement'

toward socialism. amy: on monday, posted a short video on twitter w writing --- "i want to d denounce that bolivian cououp supporters tried to assault me just now while i filmed @evacopa_bol at a polling station in ciudad satelite. they know they've lost the vote so they resort to violence against journalists. this is how camacho & mesa supporters operate." this is a clip. i havee the right to film. i'm a journalist. i am a journalist. i am a journalist.t. is violence on behalf of the right-wing groups. amy: can you talk about what happened to you? also, what jeanine añez tried to do? she herself said she would not be running for president. she got others to pull out of the race so the other side -- so they could consolidate and have a chance to win, but even still, arce won outright with ovever hf

the vote. > yeah. with what happened to o be on elecection day, what i experernd on e election day w was a microm of what this country has gone through h this past yearar. luistted my day following arce when he wenent to vote, at whwhich isis going toote wewere being incredibly aggressive, challenging us a fht, throwing eggs, water. went with the president of thehe s senate -- n ev -- w when we arrived, , a lae group p of p people w were nonoe queue toto votote began being incredibly aggressive, chanting a number of t things.

begant t point when two men tryiyingo take my filming equipmenent. i hahad depressed creredential arouound my neck. they try to take it off. i was punched in the chest. continued.ility as we left -- what happened at the end of the day, we got the exit polls and what we found out was the country doesn't belong to that violent far-right minority. the country belongs to bolivia's social movements was fight for equality, fight for democracy, liberty, national sovereignty. fact the left would win this election has been clear for a number of months, and that is why those who support the current regime increasingly turn

to violence. forher sign of desperation a long time now has been the pressure on other right-wing candidates to step down to consolidate the vote behind carlos mesa. as you mentioned, jeanine añez declared her candidacy in january and then had to withdraw a few weeks before the elections. she did not do it in time so when i want to vote, she was still on the ballot. any vote for candidateses -- that was a huge amnt of pressure both fromom the regime, from the m mainstream media,a, n cnn presesenter joined in callig on the smallller right-wing candidates to stepep down becece the only way in w which c carlos ofa could have any chance forcining mas into o a second r.

u united, ity had allll would nonot have made a differerence. there been to exit polls. one shows he won 52% and another shows 53%. the victory of mas is overwhelming, even with the unity of all the right-wing forcrces. think it was in the number of u.s. outlets, mainststream media outlets portrarayed as the popular uprising the people have rejected evo morales. well, what people were they talking about? they weren't talking about the 53% of the people that voted yesterday. the people there referring to are a waiter, middle-class, upper-class elite based in the inner circles of the big cities. actutually, the voices of the

majority of bolivian people in the indigenous rural areas and working-class areas of the city, those voices were completely ignored. joined in thever protest. they have now taken back our country. juan: ollie vargas, i i wouldldk you about the situation with the military. the mimilitary was able to force evo morales s from power back then. what is yoyour senense of whwhee militaryry is right now? are they going to accept thiss result or do you expect increaeang -- willll the new government expect i increasing coconfrontation thth the milili? will there be an attempt to remove military commanders by the nenew presesident? > a v vy intereststing quest. throughohout thehe past year unr jeanine añez government, there

has been a a reorganizatation oe military to further entrench the riright-wing forces into the top --ss, number promotions illegal promotions come, add, because military promotions have to be approved by the legislature. because the legislature is elected, mas has a majority, they reject these promotions. they're placing the most right, most pro-u.s., corrupt sections of the military promoting them into positions of generals. what will happen now? obviously, none of us know. but something interesting happened yesterday in that the top military general who is one of the most right-wing figures within the military and was promoted to that position by anez government, raised a bizarre letter attacking the current regime from supposedly

consulting the military as some event. the interior minister referred -- ranks of the military. but what this means is he is looking for a reason, looking for something with which -- from the current government so as to curry favor with the mas, with the left. that shows the strength of the victory that the arm section of the state now feels they have to swim with the tide, swim with the popular tide was so overwhelming at this point. it speaks to the power and momentum behind the left ear in bolivia. -- left here in bolivia. it is clear there needs to be a reorganization within the military. earlier id reorganization, right-wing

figures big prpromoted. there'e's s huge base in t the militatary and this people are inincredibly u ups about the promotioions that happened d a w months ago. those factctions of the military will wanto have their place at the top. but in this transisitionalerioio bebetween the coup government ad rerestoration of democracy when arce takeses power, ththe mas wl haveve to dedepend on thee miliy as it iss now to not carry out a second coup. that is a concern,bviously. if thehe alienate e the militaro muchch, therere could be even me violence between nowow and early luis arcehen takes power. amicable they beheld responsible shethe --jeanine añez, will be held accountable? whatat abot

the return of evmomorales toto bolivia? [indiscerernible] coalition between -- [indiscernible] they got three key figures they're looking at at the moment. anez hererself, the interior minister who ordered the massacres,s, and the defense minister as well as some of the gegenerals who were there e on e ground as well, ashley, mas movement filing criminal charges against some of the generals. the motorbike gang that was working with the police to repress indigenous protests just after the coup in november.

luis arce and all the candidates of mas have been clear that mas is not looking to take revenge, but there will be justice for the people who gave their lives just after the c coup in to figt for democracy. justice for the massacres. amy: ollie vargas, thank you f r being g with us. journalist with kawsachun news. i want to bring in leonardo flores, latin america campaign coordinator of codepink. he was part of an election observer delegation that was in bolivia for these elections. leonardo, your observations about what happened and the significance -- can you put the significance of this mas victory, the socialist victory in bolivia, in the conontext of what is happening in latin america today? on,hank you for having me

amamy. i was semi-delegation is the free and fair vote. very few irregularities. no trend at the nationalal level in terms of irregularitities. this is a huge victotory, not jt for the boliviann p people, but democrcracy in general a and a w against neoliberaralism and fascscism in this couountry. in terms o of a broader contete, certaiainly w we have upcomining elections next y year in ecuauar and chile. there is talk k of a n new pinke cocoming to latin n america, referringg to a period in e eary 2000 when progogressive governmentnts took power everywherere from brbrazil to argentinina to venezuela and in other places. mentioned that pink tide. cleaearly come the pink tide had tremendousus setbacks ovover the last decade or so in places like brazil, ecuadador, peru, argentntina.

what giveses you a sense that wt ispened in bolivia thiss week an indication n that the riright-wing governments that he been coming to power in many of these countries can be turned back? >> the past year we've seen massive prototests in n a good , colombia, chile. ththe facsimile peopople turnedt in the streets, hundreds of thousands, that is what led them to set the date fix the date for the elections. i think that will inspire people around the region and show them people's power really can overcome the neoliberal and fascist governments have taken power over the past five or six years in latin america. another thing we have to mention is the role played by the oas in this coup last year. all of latining america, particularly during the secretary general. juan: whatt do you see as the

trump administration's attitude noww with results in bolivia? don't theonest, i trump p administration will l be paying much attention to bolivia. their intention in latin america is based almost exclusively on vevenezuela, cuba, and nicaragua and that has a l lot to do w wih inhe boat in florida - -- vote florida. very key state in the upupcoming elections. amy: and the significance of the role of the united states and the coup that ousted the bolivian president evo morales who will soon be reteturning to bolivia? >> that is a very important role played by the united states. funding bolivian groups, right-wing groups, since the early 200000's. we know because of wikileaks,s, the u.s. embassy in bolivivia hd an eye on evo morales way before

heheecame presesident when was a social leader, union leader. they identified him as a possible person who could coalesce the bases in the different social movements and eventually came to power. there were certainly right about that. one of the other things they said was to come up with a man to undermine morales. that plan was put into effect basically in 2019 with the help of the oas, which played a key role, as i said before, through the secretary general, basically put in a a narrative in the e median bobolivia there have been n a fd in the election. found out there was no such fraud but the oas results -- analysis was completely flawed. for that reason, code pink is calling for that secretary general to resign. for people who want to join the call can go to our website. amy: we want to thank you, leonardo flores latin america

, campaign coordinator of codepink. joining us from la paz, bolivia, where he's been leading codepink's electition observavan team a all week. the stunning news out of bolivia right now, an outright victory for the ousted bolivian massident evo morales' party come now the president-elect this seated b by boboth sides is luis arce. when we come back, jelani cobb joins usus for his n new documey -- on whovote counts" gets to vote. stay with us.. ♪ [music break]

amy: "fortunate son" by creedence clearwater revival. the song w was written by membmr john fogogerty, who isissued an official cease and desist order friday to president trump for using it as part of his campaign's soundtrack. the song came out in 1969 during the vietnam war. fogerty said -- "i wrote this song because, as a

veteran, i was disgusted that some people were allowed to be excluded from serving our country because they had access to political and financial privilege. i also wrote about wealthy people not paying their fair share of taxes. mr. trump is a prime example of both of these issues. the fact that mr. trump also fans the flames of hatred, racism, and fear while rewriting recent history is even more reason to be troubled by his use of my song." this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the quarantine report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. today marks two weeks from november 3, the official election day. amid the pandemic, more than 30 million people nationwide have already voted through mail-in ballot or early voting -- that's about a fifth of the total number of votes cast in 2016. it is shattering all records for voting. early voting begins today in wisconsin and utah. as voters in the united states choose their next president, we spend the rest of the hour with journalist and professor jelani

latest commander cobb collaborates with the , columbia journalism school, columbia journalism investigations and reporters from the usa today network to examine one of the first elections held during the pandemic -- wisconsin's april 2020 primary. this is an excerpt of the film, which he narrates. >> waiting for the polling place. >> they made it so o difficult r pepeople to o votete here. just askingg toooo much of p pee to come out wiwith this virus going on. electioion inmajor the ddlele of a pandemic. >> cononfusion around whatat actually is allllowed.. >> it wawas difficult to rerequt an absenentee ballotot. >> did not know about that option to vote through absentee voting. fraudulentlots are in many cases. >> absenteee ballots to o late n the mail. >> h he did nonot come in time. folksas forced to go vote

that one of the polling stations. >> forced to choose between their healthth and civic duty. >> l lines are long. >> u unethicalal. >> peter decision -- putrid decision. >> people are going to die because of this. clubs in the ballots after april 13 will be rejejected. >> i am really frustrated bebecause my vote won't count. >> it was the most blatant form of voter suppression. >> was this a view of all the things to come? the impending presidential election?

i'm a journrnalist and historia. i have been studying american elections for years, but i've never seen anything like this moment. the threat of a constitutional crisis over an election with a vote foror many americans, especially people of f color, wo mamay not count. reviewew able to votote? >> i was not. ballot.d an absentee >> these people wanted to this past april in wisconsin. our primary that would turn out to be a telling dress rehearsal for the election chaos the rest of the country is now engulfed in. >> [indiscernible] politics with people's lives. >> i started focusing on the state because of its pivotal and deeply partisan nature. split down the middle between republicans and democrats and gave donald trump the presidency in 2016 by the exceedingly thin margin of 22,000 vote. it is a microcosm of american

these days. there is aneve attack on our democracy right nonow. >> along with colleagueues at te columbia jouournalism scschool,i began doing remote interviews when thehe pandemic was s just taking hold. >> we don't need to be trying to have an election in the middle of a pandemic. >> with reporters from the milwaukee journal sentinel and usa today, we examined the voting, especially the absentee ballots -- how they were used and counted, political and legal fights around them. amy: an excerpt from the new frontline documentary "whose vote counts." in 30 seconds, we will be joined by jelani cobb, the documentary's producer. we will be back in 30 seconds. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the quarantine report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. ,e are joined by jelani cobb the producer and narrator of -- and reporter of the frontline documentary "whose vote counts." it premieres tonight on pbs. he is a professor of journalism at columbia university and a contributor to "the new yorker" magazine. you talk about wisconsin, which begins early voting today, is a kind of microcosm of america. why did you f focus thehere andt are you most concerned about? many things in

wisconsin. we were looking at all of the potential obstacles. we started this project before the coronavirus it. we were looking at all the potential dynamics that could impede people's ability to cast a ballot. and sawlooking around wisconsin, so many of them, or happening in wisconsin. it was important for us to look at wisconsin and not just what has happened in the last decade under scott walker and republican legislature in the with theerrymandering strict voter id law, one of the strictest in the country -- all of those things that we thought thissignificant, but also is a state where the presidency was essentially decided in the last election. votes, ander, 22,000

things would turn out different way. --t was all looking around one other additional factor is that it is a state in the north where we wanted to people -- want to people to be aware this is done differently or john lewis story of selma and mississippi and georgia and south carolina, the places that we know to be the kind of usual suspects as it relates to voter suppression, we are now looking at a fire that has spread across the country. we are dealing with voter suppression concerns and a safe states that were in the union. wisconsin is where the repupublican party was founded y thele who were outraged by 1854 compromise that might have allowed the further spread of slavery. you have this bastion of progressivism, this place that is a cornerstone of american

progressive p politics. now we are mired i in a situatin wondering about whether people have access to the boat. one less thing i want to say before i go further conversations, and the correspondent and narrator of the film, my colleagues june and tom were the producers.. juan: you mentioned the history of progressivism. asconsin is known not only the birthplace of the repupublan party,y, but deep into the 2 20h centurury, also a hotbed of republican progressivismsm and alsosof the veryry extensional - extensive social movovement. read able to get at what has happppened to have this dramatic shift now into this sortt of leading edge of voter

suppreression? >> sure. it is great to talalk to youou. i you sure book in my class. i'm glad to bebe able to have ts conversation with you. there is a really good book on , where they traced this. one of the key factors is s the involvement of the bradley foundation. which is a foundation that was spun off from industrial magnet, in brothers, who initially the first part of the 20th century when they began getting into philanthropy, there are doing things that were pretty mundane -- supporting local toses and being a boon community concerns. then they veered seriously to the right in the 1970's, 1980's, and began funding efforts, especially around anti-labor

union activism. scott walker was by and large a product of the bradley foundation. it was a k kind of idea a they wanted to make wisconsin after 2008 in full steam, to make wisconsin a laboratory to what they wanted to do in the rest of the country. it must seems to perfect when we look at the issues. when we look at the checklist of things we think about with the right wing and the assault on labor unions, the assault on voter protection, the assault on the old aspect of the social lifetime, -- for my wisconsin was not considered a purple state or battleground state, but we thought of wisconsin as a fairly progressive and safely democratic state. this has been a product of

premature concerted effort over the past decade -- well, the past several decades by private philanthropypy there. juan: your documentarary focusea lot on espspecially over the lel fightver absentee ballllots. i know president trump is consnstantly tking aboutut that mail balallots are fraraudulent. obviously, there's s not a whole to of or v very little bubuttress the argument,t, but e arare concerns that anyone who s dodone a maiail-valid knows it a lot more cplicicated to fill it out properlrly ana lot easisier for r ballots to be rejected att the time of the count. i'm wondering if you could talk about the potential fofor significant numbers s of people who do vote, becauau they're doing a mail-in ballots, they don't fill it out correctly and it didn't get rejected at the count time? think -- ifi

anything, the last four years has taught us to fairly reliably look at what donald trump accuses other people of, and that is a pretty good indicator of what it is he is actually doing. the allegation that mail-in thatg is rife with fraud, people cheat, they do these things -- that does not hold up, including states like oregon where they conduct their elections entirely by mail. not only do they have successful elections with no significant hit of there being ballots improperly cast people cheating, but they systole have one of the highest voter turnout rates in the country. and sometimes the highest voter turnout rate in the country. i will come back to that and the relevance of that for 2020 in a minute. the opposite side of this is we do see there being a disparity

in the number of absentee ballots that are rejected, particularly as they come from communities of color. that is one of the things that investigations team found when they delveved into the rejejectd voter rolls in wisconsin and then trace t central particular communities -- communities that we heavily black and brown were more likely to have their ballots rejected. this should not be entirely a shock. when we remember back to just 2018 we saw the battles around exact match signature ballots in georgia and what brian kemp was attempting to do in terms of using the exact mamatch between absentee ballot and the signature they have on file for you. if there was any disparity between those two things, they would toss the ballot or if there was any disparity between how your name was spelled, hen i knewhaving a hyp

her name that may or may not apappear on your drivers licens, your ballot would be tossed. the same dynamics appeared to be the case on april 7 and could the same sortve of impact or the same sort of dynamic in the ballots being cast ahead of november 3. amy: i want to turn to a clip of your documentary "whose vote counts." you interview the top lawyer marc elias as well as others. >> the national parties join the fight. what they would do here would be a harbinger for the coming presidential election. the democratic national committee filed one of several lawsuits to make absentee voting easier. seeking g tooosen requirememes like voter id and witnessing signgnatures, things that historically h he been obsbstacs ---- especially fofor people of color. >> the dnc filed the initial lawsuit when it became clear

that there were going to be serious problems with availability for voting. >> marc elias is the dnc top lawyer. what is at stake? on the granulalar level, there e multiple dozens of lawsuits. what is being fought over? >> most of what is being fought over is the ability for voters to have access to the polls and for the votes to count. a lot of the litigation we are seeing in 2020 are mail-in ballots going to be rejected for technical reasons or are we going to enfranchise voters? amy: that is marc elias. you spend some amount of time in this documentary speakining to him. there are hundreds of these challengeses all over the count. can you talk about his significance in these lawsuits and whether you see on election day the whole election being thrown into court?

which could lead to the supreme court which might have a new justice on the supreme court named amy coney barrett. >> right. i think the comparison you might make is if you are preparing to watch a baseball game and then the coaches of the respective teams come out and they start arguing over who is going to bat first and then there arguing about how many innings they're going to be and then there is a dispute about how many pitches it will take to strike out and how many balls it will take to walk. every single aspect of how the game is played a separate dispute. really the winner will wind up being the team that fares best with only two outs instead of three or in seven innings instead of nine. that is really what we are seeing now. these lawsuits across the country are fighting about how much early voting there will be,

about how long after the election a vote cast by mail can come in and still be counted, when they have to be postmarked by. every kind of particular -- particularity you can imagine as it relates to the selection is being fought over. i think last count there were 241 lawsuits between the democrats, republicans come outside interested parties. they're going through dozens of states. onn we get to the tallies november 3, however long after we figure out who has actually won, some part of that will reflect what was won and lost in these lawsuits that have been working their way through the system for the past several momonths. juan: you mentioned these battles. 2000ber back inin the election when they were counting ballots in florida that the

republican party fought very mililitaryure that ballots s come absentee ballllos thatat have come in from overses after the d deadline, would stil be counted a and r raised the i, hohocan you disenfrananchise servicicemen overseas? they sucuccessfully gogot an extension for the military ballllots that were coming in late. now we're seeing republican party doing the opposite, trying to prevent any ballots that come in after election d day from m g counted. but i wantntedo ask about hans von n spakovsky, , who you dedeh in the role he has playeyed in shaping the narrative for the republicican party around absene ballots. and how their subject to fraud. >> sure. about yourpoint first point relating to people fighting to have absentee ballots from military --

military people serving in the armed forces be counted, the entire republican party is not a monolith on this. so what donald trump says andd what o other people and in the party will tell you if you talk to them are not necessarily the same thing. because a lot of older people prefer to cast their ballot by mail. a disproportionate share of the republican electorate is older. so when you start hearing the tirades about don't trust mail-in votes, the absentee votes are all riddled with fraud and cheating and so on, there is a quiet panic among a number of people in republicans who say, listen, we could really mess around and disenfranchise part of our own electorate here. i think that has been a concern. an obvious concern. now about hans von spakovsky. he is an interesting figure.

i was arguably more than anyone the, he is responsible for promulgation and proliferation of the concern about voter fraud. this has been his issue. he has been there guy on this thing -- he created the database with the heritage foundation that logs instances of alleged voter fraud. our investigation pointed to something else that many of the cacases that were there were simply people -- on amy: we have 20 sececonds. >> b by people who made mistakes and a casting are ballot and so on. so he is been more responsive than anyone else unable promulgating the myth of voter fraud. amy: we're going to do part two of our interview at democracynow.org.. ,heck it out with jelani cobb reporter and correspondent of the frontline documentary "whose vote counts." he is a professor of journalism

at columbia university and a contributor to "the new yorker" magazine. we will speak to him about biden's moral imperative to sacred civil rights and election day violence. [captioning made possible by democracy now!]

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