12/11/20 12/11/20 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> president trump, the people of israel and the state of israel will be forever indebted to you for your magnificent efforts on our behalf. i want to thank the king of morocco for taking this historic decision to bring an historic peace between us. amy: in a deal brokered by the trump administration, morocco and israel have agreed to

establish diplomatic relations at the same time the united states has agreed to become the first country in the world to recognize morocco's sovereignty over occupied western sahara -- what many consider to be africa's last coly. morocco has occupied much of the resource-rich territory since 1975 in defiance of the united nations and the international community. we will get a response from leading palestinian and sahwari figures. then we will look at joe biden's pick to head the pentagon, retired army general lloyd austin who now serves on the board of raytheon. >> america is strongest when it works with its allies. over the years, i have art hand-in-hand with our diplomatic colleagues and partners around the globe and witnessed first-hand what we were able to accomplish together. amy: if confirmed, general

austin will become the nation's first black defense secretary. but it remains unclear if he will be able to secure a needed waiver from congress due to laws designed to preserve the civilian control of the military. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the quarantine report. i'm amy goodman. an advisory committee of vaccine experts voted thursday to recommend emergency use authorization of the pfizer-biontech vaccine against -- with the food and drug administration poised to issue its approval on saturday. once that comes, some 2.9 million doses could be shipped to sites across the u.s., with the initial, limited supply of the vaccine rationed for health care workers and nursing home residents. on thursday, the u.s. recorded another staggering toll from covid-19 with over 224,000 new

infections and nearly 3000 deaths. robert redford, director of the centers for disease control and prevention, warned that for the next 60 to 90 days, the u.s. will likely see more, 19 deaths per day than the number of people killed in the september 11 attacks. >> it is also sobering to realize in the united states, covid-19 now is the leadin cause of death, surpassing heart disease. amy: that was robert redfield. meanwhile, a cdc official told lawmakers earlier this week she was instructed by cdc director robert redfield to delete an email from the trump administration which sought to alter a scientific report on the risks to covid-19 to children in order to better match trump's messaging on reopening schools. in new hampshire, an autopsy reveals state house speaker dick

hinch, a republican, died of covid-19 on wednesday. his death came one week after he was sworn in as new hampshire's top lawmaker at a december 2 ceremony. the event was attended by several republican lawmakers who revealed just one day prior that they'd tested positive for coronavirus after attending an indoor meeting in late november where many people refused to wear masks. new hampshire state representative and ophthalmologist william marsh blasted fellow republicans for , tweeting -- "those in our caucus who refused to take precautions are responsible for dick hinch's death." new hampshire republican governor also criticized members of his own party thursday. cook you don't wear a mask and social distance just for yourself, do that for those who are surrounding yourself with. and for those out there doing the opposite to make some sort of bizarre political point, it is horribly irresponsible.

horrible consequences. amy: the labor department reports nearly 1.4 million u.s. workers filed for initial unemployment assistance last week, a sharp risfrom the previous week, as the worsening pandemic continues to hammer the u.s. economy the latest figures come as 12 million unemployed people are set to lose all their benefits at the end of december. about 19 million people are currently unable to pay their rent, with the cdc's moratorium on evictions set to expire on new year's day. "the washington post" reports that a sharp rise in hunger and homelessness across the u.s. has led to a spike in shoplifting, with staple foods like bread, pasta, and baby formula in heavy demand. on capitol hill, republican senate majority leader mitch mcconnell on thursday rejected a bipartisan framework on a pared-down, $908 billion coronavirus relief bill, saying it does not provide enough

liability protection for corporations whose workers or customers became infected with covid-19. for months, vermont senator bernie sanders blasted republican lawmakers for failing to provide for americans in desperate need of assistance. sanders introduced an amendment to a spending bill that would provide a $1200 stimulus check to every working-class u.s. adult and an additional $500 for each child. congress must pass the spending bill by midnight tonight to avoid a federal government shut down. sanders spoke from the senate floor thursday. looks at a time when so many american families are suffering, when summing people don't know how they're going to feed their kids or prevent being evicted from their homes or how they are going to pay for doctors visit, we cannot leave washington and unless weour families

address the economic suffering that so many other families are facing. amy: morco and israel have agreed to establish diplomatic relations as part of a u.s.-brokered deal. morocco becomes the fourth arab nation to establish ties with israel since august. as part of the deal, the united states agreed to become the first country in the world to recognize morocco's sovereignty over occupied western sahara -- what many consider to be africa's last colony. morocco has occupied much of the resource-rich territory since 1975 in defiance of the united nations and the international community. thousands have been tortured, imprisoned, killed, and disappeared while resisting the moroccan occupation. after headlines, we'll have the latest on the morocco-israel go insidefro and occupied western sahara. azerbaijan's military held a massive parade in the capital baku on thursday, celebrating its victory over armenian forces

in the nagorno-karabakh region. turkish president recep tayyip erdogan, who backed azerbaijan in the war, was on hand for the parade, which featured a display of turkish armed drones. human rights watch and amnesty international report both azeri and armenian troops committed war crimes during the six week conflict -- with evidence of extrajudicial executions, beheadings, torture, and the desecration of the bodies of slain soldiers. back in the united states, president-elect joe biden told civil rights leaders in a private conference call tuesday that he would use his executive authority to undo many of president trump's acons but woulnot take executive action to implement a progressive agenda. in audio of the call leaked to the intercept, biden said using his executive powers to enact policies like a ban on assault rifles would be "way beyond the bounds" of his constitutional authority. biden asked civil rights leaders not to pursue campaigns to transform policing in the united states until after twin senate

runoff elections to be held in georgia on january 5, which will determine the balance of power in the senate. mr. biden: they have already labeled us as being defund the police. nathan would put forward in terms of the organizational structure to change policing -- which i promise you will occur. promise you. just think yourself and give me advice whether we should do that before january 5, because that is how they beat the living hell out of us across the country saying we are talking about defunding the police. we are not. we are talking about holding them accountable. amy: meanwhile, president-elect biden has tapped susan rice to be director of the white house domestic policy council. rice served as u.s. ambassador to the united nations and national security advisor under president obama. critics called out the pick over rice's inexperience with dostic poly, as ll as he roleupportinu.s. military actions that caused devastation in syria and libya under obama. the position does not require

senate confirmation. in related news, biden has picked another obama administration alum, former white house chief of staff denis mcdonough to lead the department of veterans affairs. veterans groups expressed disappointment biden did not pick a veteran to serve in the role. jeremy butler of iraq and afghanistan veterans of america told "the washington post" -- "he's starting in a position of public deficit because of who he is not." meanwhile, a watchdog report has found current va secretary robert wilkie and other senior leaders discredited and smeared a house aide who reported a sexual assault at work. andrea goldstein, who issued the complaint, said in a statement -- "the millions of women and men who have experienced or witnessed sexual violence in the military recognized secretary wilkie's actions as horrifyingly familiar -- refuse to take or enforce accountability, blame, shame, and make the victim the problem." a majority of house republicans have backed trump's last-ditch effort to overturn the election

results by asking the supreme court to toss millions of votes in pennsylvania, michigan, wisconsin, and georgia -- all states that voted for biden -- as part of a texas-led lawsuit. 106 house republicans signed on to a legal brief thursday in support of the lawsuit. state department inspector general matthew klimow stepped down thursday after mike pompeo lashed out at a report in which the watchdog found pompeo's wife did not secure proper approval or documentation for trips she took with her husband as part of official state department business. the investigation, however, cleared susan pompeo of violating federal ethics rules. the supreme court ruled unanimously thursday that three muslim men who were placed on a no-fly list can sue government officials for damages. the plaintiffs say the fbi placed them on the no-fly list as retaliation for refusing to spy on their communities, which prevented them from making trips to pakistan, afghanistan, and

yemen, harming their reputation and jobs. the latest acting head of immigration and customs enforcement, tony pham, is stepping down after less than five months in the role. during his tenure, pham oversaw the installation of billboards on pennsylvania highways with the faces of immigrants who, according to ice, "pose a public safety threat." and in indiana, officials at the federal prison in terre haute injected 40-year-old condemned prisoner brandon bernard with a lethal dose of pentobarbital thursday evening. the execution, on international human rights day, came after the supreme court declined to intervene to halt the ninth execution of a federal prisoner this year. the trump administration plans to kill four more prisoners before joe biden's inauguration. to see our coverage of brandon bernard's case and trump's lame duck executions, you can visit -- the first times in 130 years, you can visit our website democracynow.org.

and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the quarantine report. i'm amy goodman. morocco and israel have agreed to establish diplomatic relations as part of a u.s.-brokered deal. morocco becomes the fourth arab nation to establish ties with israel since august. as part of the deal, the unite states agreed to become the first country in the world to recognize morocco's sovereignty over occupied western sahara -- what many consider to be africa's last colony. it is due to open a consulate in the occupied city of dakhla, where there are few if any u.s. citizens. morocco has occupied much of the resource-rich territory since 1975 in defiance of the united nations and the international community. thounds of sahrawis have been tortured, imprisoned, killed, and disappeared while resisting the moroccan occupation. following morocco's invasion in 1975, about half of the sahrawi population fled to neighboring algeria, where they have lived

for the past 45 years in refugee camps in the middle of the desert. the deals comes less than a month after a nearly three-decade-old ceasefire ended in western sahara. the moroccan military broke into a no-go buffer zone in southern western sahara and to attack sahrawi civilians blocking off a morocco-built road and exchanged fire with the polisario front, the sahrawi liberation movement seeking independence. morocco has since intensified its repression in occupied western sahara, raiding and laying siege to the homes of pro-independence activists and journalists, arresting dozens of people and cracking down on protests. human rights groups criticized the u.s.-morocco-israel deal which was announced on international human rights day. in washington, democratic senator patrick leahy of vermont said -- "after losing his own bid for reelection, president trump cannot by 'proclamation' negate international law or the rights of the people of western sahara. they are entitled to what they

have long been promised -- a free and fair vote on self-determination." in 1991, the united nations promised sahrawis a referendum on self-determinatn as part of a ceasefire deal but morocco has blocked the referend from happing. bassam al-salhi ofhe palestine liberation organization also condemd morocco r joining bahrain, sudan, and the united arab emirates in estabshing ties witisrael deste the ongoinoccupation othe west bank a gaza. heaid the al is unceptable d warnede will embden srael's belligence and its denial othe paleinian peop's ghts." we're joineright noby hanan asawi,ongtimpalestinn diplat and solar. she rently resned her positi as execive commtee meer of thpalestin liberaon organation. she wathe firswoman toold a seatn the hiest execive body in lestine.

she is jnings right w from the st bank. weelcome y to demoacy now! it isreat to ve you wh us. ifouan sta off by lking abouthe moroo-israelart of th deal? , have yowith us. >>hank you is good tbe wityo amy. i can hearou. amy:f you ca startff by talkg about rocco's recoitioof israe andhat this mns f the paltinians? >>his is part othe whole patterof behavior, a pross -- thtrump admistration, i d't wa to sathe u.s., been acng a the randoy for isrl i ordeto try tget as many viories co as manyenefits come as ny privigefor rael.

and righow it is rusng like d in a re against te before they leavffice in order teposion israel, to normalize relations with the others, and to deliver palestine to israel and legalize or legitimize the occupatn of pastine anthe land of lestinin the escalation -- sorry, annation of land as well as the building of settlements. is pattern in many ways utilized not just illegal, but cruel means. andnt between bribery blacail. it usethe weak spots in different couries and the needs of different countries in order to supply them on behalf of israel and extract concessions for israel. for a look at the uae, look at within, look at normalized isel, look at now morocco.

the itability in many different countries -- look at sudan, of course, another tragic case -- was expited and the weakness and the needs of certain regimes and rulers were also exploited in order to foract these privileges israel and reposition it as a major power in the region and to give it a free hand and to enable it to be part of what -- facing ira with morocco, is different than sudan and other countrie because sudan needed to be moved off the terrorist list and needed the blockade to be lifted. morocco wanted the u.s. to recognize and accept its control

over an annexation of the western sahara. the different countries in the world, the u.n., do not recogne morcan control or anxation of the westersahara and neither did the u.s. is is a change in u.s. policy ana violation of u.n. resolutions that granted the sahwari, western sahara since determination possibly same wa as the palestinians every year told they have the right to self-determination, but with implementation we never get it so this has created a situation of quid pro quo where the u.s. exploits the weakness or the avarice of other countries in order to bring them normalize with israel and in two destroyed violatee initiative, to arab resolutions, and israel to place and at the heart of the

region as a major economic military security court. now, morocco -- there is an article in, but the new york times." the moroccan people are among the most supportive of the palestinian cause, extremely patriotic and they identify with palestine. they're very unhappy with what is happening. . happy with the normalization with israel. they know normalize it with israel means not normalizing the occupation, means normalizing lawlessness. meanthey are giving israel a the hand to continue pocies against palestine. we are seeing how in these last days of the trump administration israel has escalated and intensified the settlement demolitioof the

palestinian people, superimposing apartheid system on the west bank and in particularnd illal annexation of jerusalem. and it i creating rings of settlement to isolate jerusalem and effective the west bank, knowing it has the blessings of the u.s. of administration and knowing full well it destroys any chances of peace and at the same way it destroys the same --h having a chance of amy: what exactly does it mean, bahrain,rawi, to have sudan, united arab emirates, morocco recogne israel? how does that change things on the ground for gaza and the west israel> it emboldens even further it is not a question of recognition or making peace as

the trump administration claims. there was no more. i mean, they don't share borders with israel. they never have an war with israel committing either morocco or the emirates or bahrain nor sudan. in a sensethey're lookingor any where they can make peace or where they can hav agreements and normalization, as they say, in order to say they made peace and you see the palestinian noterners not settlers -- longer applicable. israel can have all the fruits of what is called peace and normalization without having to y its du in terms of compliance with international law. this does weaken the palestinian position. the u.s. administration has taken several unilateral and illegal steps in order to bash the palestinians into submission and it has failed. clears, now it is very

that have fragmented and created an enhanced faultlines within the region. there supporting sort of artificial polarization. and they are creating further rifts between the people and the leadership. and there supporting more autocratic regimes. we think the trump administration has been acting outside the laws. n course the palestinians this weakens their hand. they know in many ways it undermines the unanimous support for the palestinian course. the resume themselves may have taken suchish regimes themselves have taken such actions, but people as a whole remain committed and remain supportive of the palestinian cause. israel sees it is not only about the law that he could do whatever it wants, but it has partners crimes.

first it was the american administration in complicity with the u.s. and israel, now it leaders -- arab leaders inrder to do the same. the emiratesr as have been signing agreements with the settlers, the settler business groups. we keep reminding people settlements are illegal. they are a war crime according to their own statute and the icc, and anybody who cooperates or supports or aids and abets a war crime can be held accountable as well. but they are moving so fast and creating situations that are so volatile that they will introduce more instability in the region. it is an abnormal situation. it is a result of specific needs. the need for netanyahu to get reelected, the need for trump to

say he is a peacemaker before november. now it is a question of who is -- to appeal to this constituency, whether it is the extreme right wing zionist evangelicals or the pro-israel others. this has become a pattern that is very disruptive, that is illegal in many ways, and has placed the u.s. outside the realm of peacemaking or recognition of dashed international law u.n. and resolutions. amy: can you address why you step down from the plo leadership? explain your decision. clubs i did issue an statement and did speak out but it is a

fulfilling actuay not just a promise, practicing what you preach and amy was in the sense i believe it is time for the plo to be reformed, for the institutions to be rejuvenated, for the democratic process to take place, to have elections and elect new leadership -- particularly young men and women. and of courseo respect our institutions and their role. there have been several instances and issues -- whi i don't want to discuss right now, but did discuss them. i felt have weakened and undermined the understanding of the plo and decisn-making, and notinued the rift which was weaken thend has

paleinian position internationally anin terms of standing up to israeli violations. there's a long list of ings but i feel it is tim i have been saying to leave for some time w. i wanted to practice what we call a graceful exit in order to make room for others, and trigger more reform or trigger a meeting of the institutions of the plo in order to elect new leadership. and we do need elections and genuine revitalization othe system and an exercise of democracy. amy: can you address the issue of the pandemic, covid-19 in the occupied territories? you tested positive for covid. you have the cheap yellow negotiator saw barakat who died

of covid. can you talk about the situation and how you recover? >> it is extremely dangerous. we have lockdowns every weekend but that is not enough. there's no movement. the situatn is rapidly threatening to get out of ntrol. we don't know if we still have any vaccine or medicine, but we have -- we are under occupation. we do not control our borders israel. draws everything. we were unable to control our borders and the workers who go for palestinians from israel to come to visit family, have

social occasions because we are one people, indigenous -- so itans in israel has created e situation where there is real no control. and we don't have a health system, despite the fact we have very qualified doctors and minister of help that is been working actually hard toontrol quicklyhey had acted and then with the second wave, it became worseow we're going to the third wave. every day we have more than 2000 cases. given the number of people we have, ve high ratio. we don't have enough health evenalties, the hospitals,

does the treatment, the medicines. amy: the prime minister benjamin netanyahu says he will be the very first person to get a covid vaccine, to be injected with one. what will happen to the palestinians? what kind of access will you have? >> what kind of ligh vaccines?to the >> every time he addresses a leader of the country like russia and other places come he does ask for the vaccine. the ministry of health has been in touch with the pharmaceutical companies that are producing, manufacturing the vaccine. so we have to get it ourselves and we have to pay for it. the same time, we are asking other countries to help in terms of acquiring the vaccis. we don't expect to get them

soon. we don't have that means to buy enough forhe whole population. so i think there'll will be several countries to assist, but it means we will have to wait a while to be able to get i the fact it is becoming more prevalent, spreading quite rapidly, i was talking to the minister of health -- she is quite hard-working, exclent health practitioner. she told me there desperately trying to get enough. she is attacked with different sources. to the who and others, we hope ere will be lp but if we do not get it, could be th facilitiesnd icu will not be enough to take care of them. we do have qualified health service providers and we trust

them. at the same time, we don't know if we can cope with the scope of the spread of the covid-19 in palestine. thankr. hanan ashrawi, you for being with us, palestinian diplomat and scholar. recently resigned her position as executive committee member of the palestine liberation organization. the first woman to hold a seat in the highest executive body in palestine. also served as the official spokesperson of the palestinian delegation to the middle east peace process. she herself had covid and now has recovery. when we come back, we go from the israel-morocco alliance to the u.s.-morocco alliance, to the u.s. acknowledging -- the u.s. recognizing the sovereignty of morocco over western sahara, the first country in the world to do so. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, e quarantine repo. i'm amy goodn. morocco and israel have agreed to eablish diplomatic relations has part of a u.s. broker-dealer. morocco is the fourth air nation to establish ties with israel since august. as part of the deal, the united states agreed to become the first country and in the world to recognize morocco's sovereignty over occupied western sahara -- what many consider to be africa'last colony. it is due to open a consulate in the occupied city of dakhla, where there are few if any u.s. citizens. morocco has occupied much of the resource-rich territory since 1975 in defiance of the united nations and the international community. thousands of sahrawis have been tortured, imprisoned, killed, and disappeared while resisting the moroccan occupation. following morocco's invasion in 1975, about half of the sahrawi population fled to neighboring algeria, where they have lived for the past 45 years in refugee camps in the middle of the desert. the deals comes less than a

month after a nearly three-decade-old ceasere ended in western sahara when the . joining us from spain is mouloud said, a representative of the polisario front in washington. also with us is stephen nes, profsor of politics and international studies at the university of san francisco. he's the co-author of "western sahara: war, nationalism, and conflict irresolution." we welcome you both to democracy now! make a zunes, if you can link between morocco recognizing israel and the u.s. in exchange, it seems, officially accepting morocco's annexation by the occupied western sahara? >> it was clearly a quid pro quo. the uned states has been in effect supporting moroc's

occupation for many years, just it has been supporting israel's occupation for many year trp in both cases has gone well beyondhat previous ministrations of both parties have done and violated long-standing international legal norms. in the case of palestine, regnizing jerusem a solely israel's capital, moving the u.s. embassy there, recognizing israel's illegal annexatn of thgolan heights. in the case of morocco, even worse because it is notust talking about recognizing an illegal annexation of a portion of a country, but an tire country. ,n the case of western sahara the sahwari democratic republic has been recognized by over 80 nations ound the world a full member of the african union.

in a sense, trump is not recognizing the takeover of one african nation another. this is unprecedented since the signing of the united nations charter or the united states or any nation, really, to recognize such a brazen violation of international legal norms. amy: i want to go to madrid, spain, together response of mouloud said. you represent the polisario front in washington, d.c., though you are in's and right now. can you talk about what this means? the trump administration doing something that has not been done by any country in the world, recognizing the annexation of western sahara. what does this mean for the sahwari people? >> thank you for having me. condemnsri government the position taken by president trump which breaks away from the

administration's licies. with this decision is not going to change theacts. the sahwari public is a ful member of the african union. --is not going to change [indiscernible] western sahara is not just a piece of real estate. [inaudible]

this is something would condemn this position, but it is not going to change the situation because the sahwari people are going to continue with their struggle. the first power to recognize -- the first power that violated international law in the western sahara. because it is a violation of international law, it is not going to have any effect on the issue. by the way, the european union -- theywith a statement want to take this opportunity to thank the senators that acted so promptly, members of congress.

does that associated themselves and cdeed this position. insidewant to go occupied western sahara to the womano speak inside her home where many are in their homes but police have laid siege to the area. i want to welcome you. you're a journalist as well. you have been arrested by the moroccans. can you respond to the trump administration recognizing moroccan sovereignty over your territory and what this means for you? what is the situation inside? >> thank you, amy goodman. thank you to democracy now! for talking to us, giving the

sahwari activists the opportunity to share their stories. regarding the situation, there is a major crackdown on the sahwari rights, on the freedom of speech, on the freedom of movement, and the freedom of assembly, especially after morocco violated the cease-fire and the worst start again -- morocco started a wave of arrests against sahwari activists in a territory. morocco keeps arresting people. now there are dozens of sahwari activist behind bars. the people are not allowed to express themselves. there are no press agencies on

the ground that can document the violations against the sahwaris. [indiscernible] we dcribed western sahara is a black hole does well, described a report two years ago, biter national organizations. it is completely closed. we suffer in silence. we believe this will not raise our right to freedom. surprised that we have been betrayed i the international community -- by the international community. for over 30 years, we're waiting for useful solution from the united nations that we have been

promised by the united nations. there is a mission to organize -- to offer facilities to the sahwari people to vote and determine their own future by themselves. by there not surprised recognition from trump. i think the study of western sahara is a detriment by --ernational law, not president already on his way out. the international law is clear. security council solutions authored by the u.s. itself in i referendum. -- we hope the income it biden administration will return the u.s. to a nation that is law-standing to recognize

[indiscernible] weope the w u.s. ministtion wl ndiscernible] whicis a prose to ge them simple le which is e vote r our freom. ill not op the sahwi strgle and will n itheheahwarielief illegal ghts and figing f legarights whichs on their land. amy: finally, i want to ask

steve zunes about this latest report in reuters that talks sell the u.s. planning to -- negotiating the sale of at least four sophisticated arterial drones to morocco, not clear whether it is related to this, though it is coming at the same time. and you have the longtime supporter of israel, the outgoing congressman, head of the house born relations committee eliot engel, while applauding the relationship between jerusalem, warned the trump administration against casting aside legitimate multilateral avenues of nflict resolution, doing something no other country and in the world has done. professor, youave 30 sends. >> the dro sale was of concern because it is illegal for the united states to support -- to

providinvading armies with this kinof sophisticated equipmt. now that western sahara is recognized as part of morocco, suenly it is an internal conflict. this paves the way for this kind of equipment, which could be used in counterinsurgey situations. in terms of eliot engel, it is important someone w is so strongly for israel is willing to break with the administration on this point. the question is, what biden is gointo do. biden could revse the annexation, recognion of the annexation with a stroke of the pen. under pressure because israel -- rocco could use this as an excuse to nullify the recognition israel. biden will be under pressure by pro-israel groups not toesend trump's order most of it is good you have somebody ke rick trumpwho ishallging decision. amy: finally, mouloud said, the

status of the cease-fire between morocco and the polisario? zone.cross the buffer when santa cease-fire is over. therefore, back to square one. and 21. right n there is a war going on from the south of western sahara to the north. the cease-fire is not anymore. it is over. now it is just a war that will in the remaining part of the territory. it is sad. the decision by mr. trump comes they turn national day that everybody is celebrating -- the international day that everyone is celebrating rights. mouloud said, amy koch thank you for being with us,

presentative of the polisario front in washington. from the stephen zunes university of san francisco. coming up, will get joe biden's pick to head the pentagon. retired general. what does this mean? stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the quarantine report. i'm amy goodman. we turn to look at president-elect joe biden' nominee for defense secretary, retired four-star army general lloyd austin. if confirmed, he would make history as the first black defense secretary. general austin can only be confirmed if a waiver is secured from congress due to laws designed to preserve the civilian control of the military. several democratic senators including richard blumenthal, tammy duckworth, jon tester and elizabeth warren have indicated they would oppose granting waiver to austin. three years ago, 70 democratic senators voted against giving a waiver to general james mattis when he was nominated by president trump. now there's speculation that some democrats may vote against the waiver for austin but for his confirmation, while some republicans may do the opposite. this comes as general austin also faces scrutiny for his ties

to weapons manufacturer raytheon, whose board he sits on. for more on lloyd austin's nomination, we go to walpole, massachusetts, where we're joined by andrew bacevich. he is president and co-founder of the quincy institute for responsible statecraft and a retired colonel and vietnam war veteran. professor bacevich is professor emeritus of international relations and history at boston university. it is great to have you back. why don't you talk about your concerns about the general being the defense secretary. >> the general is not a civilian. it seems to me if we are serious about civilian control of the military -- and we should be as citizens -- that we ought to have a bona fide civilian in charge of the pentagon. amy: this goes back to 1947? explain the law passed by congress. >> that was the national security act of 1947, which

created the modern national security establishment -- unified the armed forces created situions that we are familiar with such as the joint chiefs of staff and created the position of defense secretary. this is under harry truman's administration. truman himself was acutely sensitive to the importance of maintaining civilian control. therefore, the creation of this reform in establishing a position of defense secretary, he was emphatic the law was it .ould be filled by a civilian there have been two exceptions. the first occurred in 1951 during the korean war, great military crisis. general marshall, george marshall, became defense secretary. the waiver allowing him to do that was approved.

the second time, as you just mentioned, was just recently went the appointment of general mattis to serve as defense duringry by donald trump the trump presidency. amy: talk about what civilian control means. for a lot of people, they may say, it is the pentagon, why wouldn't you have a general? >> just yesterday, i reread general -- excuse me, president eisenhower's famous farewell address. this is the speech whe he warned about the influence of military-iustrial, ask. -- industrial complex. there is a phrase he uses about the imperative of being watchful over the military to ensure that liberty and security may prosper together. as i thought about that, it seems to me the military professionals have a rather specific understanding of what

liberty and security mean and what they require. and that we ordinary citizens actually have a different understanding. it doesn't mean ours is necessarily right, but i think the point is that we need civilian control in the form of a genuinely civilian defense secretary for the defense secretary in essence to serve as our agent to try to ensure the military's understanding of liberty and security alliance with our understanding of liberty and security. austin. nothing against i think he is probably a good guy, a patriot, served honorably. but i have serious doubts that he has that appreciation for what liberty and security mean in the larger sense.

that is why i think his appointment is a bad idea. amy: yep expressed concern about what eisenhower talked about, the military-industrial complex. you said he jumped on the gravy train too soon. is hard to, it criticize austin for this because so many of them do it. the three stars, four stars, soon as they retire, they start cashing in. we have these defense contractors, for whatever reason, welcome retired generals and admirals to their force. that is what austin did. he has only been retarded think for what, four years -- he is only been retired for what, four year he has made a ton of money. i found all ethically very troubling, even though i have good knowledge that what he did was not the glee wrong -- legally wrong and what some of them do.

but it is indicative of this betweenus relationship defense contractors and senior members. we ought to be uncomfortable with that, even though we have come to accept it as i guess the way things are. amy: i want to ask about the cost of war project at boston university that came out with us new study that showed the number of afghan civilians killed in airstrikes led by the u.s. and since have risen by 330% 2017. on 2019just reported alone, about 700 people were killed by airstrikes carried out by the trump administration. and just yesterday, the report out of jalalabad, the television journalist was assassinated with her driver as they were on the

road. what is happening in eastern >> i think -- amy: i don't mean eastern, but all of afghanistan. >> i think there is a benefiary going on. it proceeds trump, continues under trump, the so-called inlets wars are coming to an end. is theevidence for that number of u.s. troops in afghanistan and other theaters of war has been going down. with the number of troops go wn, casualties go down, the american public simply tunes out. well, what has gotten less reporton the cost of war invites as to pay attention to is that as troop levels go down, reliance on airpower goes up, reliance on airpower goes up munitions, or of

went in up killing more civilians. and that is in fact what has happened and it ought to be exceedingly troubling except for the fact, as i suggested, the american public's attention towards involving the united states -- two wars involving e the amount ofis involve troops being killed and wounded and right now and afghastan that number is very small. amy could you expect biden to be different when it comes to afghanistan? close no. he is going to take office and and endless wars and he will maintain so-called counterterrorism capabilities, small number of troops continued use airpower in places like afghanistan will continue i think until putting his reform program at home in jeopardy if he doesn't bring these wars to an end. amy: andrew bacevich, thank you

for being with us president and , co-founder of the quincy institute for responsible statecraft. retired colonel and vietnam war veteran. that does it for our broadcast. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them xxxxxxdñoooooooo

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