02/23/21 02/23/21 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! after a devastating winter surge, the u.s. covid death toll has passed a staggering half of a million. by far the largest in the world. as the u.s. ramps up its vaccine rollout, the united nations warns far more needs to be done to help protect poorer nations.

>> the worldrgently needs a global vaccination plan to bring together all those with scientific expertise and financial capacities. amy: we will speak to new york emergency room doctor craig spencer, a survivor of ebola, about the pandemic at home and abroad. then as we continue to honor black history month, we remember the visionary black science fiction writer octavia butler. she died 15 years ago this week but her readership continues to grow. one of butler cost -- butler's last television interviews was on democracy now! >> choose your leaders with wisdom and forethought to be led by a coward is to be controlled by all the coward fears.

to be led by a fool is to be led by the opportunist who control the fool. to be led by a thief is to offer up your most precious treasures to be stolen. to be led by a liar is to ask to be lied to. to be led by a tyrant is to sell yourself and those you love into slavery. amy: we will hear octavia butler in her own words. some of this interview has never been aired before. and we will speak with the author and activist adrienne maree brown about how octavia butler's writings can help the world tackle some its most pressing issues in the world today from climate change to racism. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the quarantine report. i'm amy goodman. the united states recorded

another 1400 deaths from covid-19 on monday, bringing the u.s. toll since the start of the pandemic to more than a half a million, by far the highest of any nation in the world. [bells toll] amy: the bells at the national cathedral in washington, d.c., tolled 500 times monday to commemorate the 500,000 who've died in just the last year. that's more people than the entire population of miami, florida. in a sunset ceremo at the ite house, preside biden, vice president kamala harris, and their spouses led the country in a moment of communal mourning. pres. biden: so today, i ask all

americans to remember those we lost in those left behind. but as we all remember, i also k us to act, to remain vigilant, to stay socially distance, to mask up, get vaccinated when it is your turn. we must and the politics misinformation has divided families and communities in the country. it has cost many lives already. amy: president biden has ordered flags on federal property to fly at half-staff for five days the number of new covid cases continues to fall across the united states, and the vaccine effort is speeding up. in connecticut, they will administer vaccines based solely on age, eliminating priority status for most essential

workers with residents 55 and older and teachers prioritize. this starting march 1. after headlines, we will have the latest on the pandemic with dr. craig spencer, who is been treating coronavirus patients for the past year. presidenbiden's nominee to become the next attorney general, merrick garland, told the senate judiciary committee monday he would prioritize prosecuting the white supremacists who stormed the capitol on january 6. he compared the task to his prosecution of the oklahoma city federal building bombers in the -- bombing in the 1990's. garland said he did not regret seeking the death penalty against bomber timothy mcveigh -- who was executed in 2001 -- but said he's since altered his views on capital punishment. >> i am very concerned about the large numberf exonerations that have occurred through dna

evidence and otherwise. not onlin deathenalty convictions, but also in other convictions. the data is clear it has enormously disparate impact, black americans and communits of color. and exonerations also, something like kathy exonerations with black men. amy: in an emotional moment, merrick garland said he felt an obligation to pay the united states back for granting asylum to his family. >> i come from a family where my graham prince fled anti-semitism and persecution. the country took us in. and protected us. amy: today the senate's energy and natural resources committee holds confirmation hearings for new mexico congressmember deb

haaland to become secretary of the interior. if confirmed, haaland will be the first native american to serve as a cabinet secretary. california attorney general xavier becerra faces two days of senate confirmation hearings starting today on his nomination to lead the department of health and human services. he helped lead the fight to defend the affordable care act from attacks by former president trump and the republican party. he has also voiced support for medicare for all in the past. meanwhile, senate votes today on whether to confirm linda thomas-greenfield for u.s. ambassador to the united nations and tom vilsack for secretary of agriculture. canadian prime minister justin trudeau is meeting today with joe den todavirtuall who is carryg out hifirst lateral etinasreside. thtwo willeet not person t u.s.-cadian borr reins largy closedue to the coronavirus ndemic. they' expecteto discu vaination mpaigns,he climate isis, antrudeau's

opsition tbiden's decisi to ccel the ystone x pipeli. the meeting comes a day after canada's house of commons voted to declare that china is committing genocide against more than a million minority uighur muslims in xinjiang province. the non-binding resolution passed on a vote of 266-0, with -- although trudeau and members of his cabinet of stain. -- abstained. the supreme court has refused to block the release of former president trump's tax returns to a grand jury convened by manhattan district attorney cy vance. trump blasted the move in a statement calling it a "threat to the very foundation of our liberty." new york prosecutors are investigating hush money payments made to adult film star stormy daniels during the 2016 presidential campaign and whether the reimbursements made to michael cohen, trump's former lawyer and fixer, were illegally accounted for as a legal expense.

the federal aviation administration has grounded dozens of boeing 777 passenger jets after an engine failure on a united airlines flight saturday nearly led to disaster. >> at the may day. just experienced -- need to return immediately. amy: the pilots of united flight 238 are being hailed as heroes after an emergency landing that saved all 229 passengers and 10 crew aboard. the explosion occurred just minutes after the plane took off from denver's airport bound for hawaii scattered engine parts fell across a swath of the cityf broomfield, but no one on the ground was injured. the national transportation safety board says a preliminary investigation found the engine, manufactured by pratt & whitney, showed signs of metal fatigue. this follows two fatal crashes of boeing 737 max jets in ethiop and indonesia that killed all 346 people aboard.

the u.n. high commissioner for refugees is calling for those who have been stranded at sea off the coast of bangladesh after their boat broke down saturday, leaving them adrift without food or water. human rights workers they at least eight people have already died on the boat, which is caring refugees believed to have left from cox's bazar in bangladesh. cox's bazar is the world's largest refugee camp with a population of some rohingya. one million in colombia, an inquiry by a special court has revealed the colombian army carried out over 6400 extrajudicial killings, known as false positives, between 2002 and 2008. the army then falsely deemed their victims as leftist rebels, in order to boost their combat kill rates and appear as if they were winning colombia's half a century u.s.-backed conflict against the revolutionary armed forces of colombia, farc. a peace deal was signed in 2016. in the democratic republic of congo, three people were killed monday following an ambush on a

u.n. humanitarian convoy in the eastern region of the country, near the city of goma. among the dead was the italian ambassador to congo, luca attanasio, and a congolese driver for the world food program. the group was headed to a world food program initiative at a school when their vehicles were reportedly hijacked by unidentified armed men. several others were injured. over 2000 people were killed by armed groups in eastern congo last year. over 5.2 million have been displaced. in haiti, massive protests continue demanding president jovenel moïse to step down, accusing him of illegally extending his term. hundreds of people took to the streets of port-au-prince sunday as mobilizations entered a third week. this is one of the protesters sunday. >> week, the young people, are the path to liberation of haiti. we will continue fighting until we regain sovereign status because we know it is the

americans, foreign powers, the american states and the u.n. your supporting president moise. i sent a message to joe biden, noah resources -- we continue fighting. amy: israel is warning people to stay away from beaches after an offshore oil spill began fouling -- polluting 100 mile stretch of mediterranean coastline. the massive tar slick has devastated ocean wildlife, including sea turtles and a 55-foot fin whale that washed ashore dead in southern israel. it's being called one of israel's worst-ever environmental disasters. in texas, environmentalists are sounding the alarm over toxic pollution from oil refineries that scrambled to shut down amid last week's unprecedented winter storm. reuters reports texas refineries turned off or "flared" more than a third of a million pounds of toxic benzene, carbon monoxide, hydrogen sulfide, and sulfur dioxide as temperatures dropped below freezing. meanwhile, households and local

governments in texas continue to report astronomically high energy costs after texas's deregulated energy market allowed for a huge spike in prices. the publicly-run utility in the city of denton paid $207 million -- was charged $207 million on energy costs in the last few days, more than its entire annual budget. united nations investigators have found that erik prince, a trump ally who founded the mercenary company blackwater, broke a u.n. arms embargo on libya by supporting a militia commander who was seeking to overthrow libya's internationally recognized government. "the new york times" reports a confidential u.n. investigation reveals how erik prince deployed mercenaries, armed with attack aircraft, gunboats and cyberwarfare capabilities, to eastern libya at the height of a major battle in 2019, in support of renegade former general khalifa haftar. prince faces possible u.n. sanctions, including a travel ban and a freeze on his bank

accounts and other assets. in colorado, an independent investigation into the police killing of 23-year-old elijah mcclain has found aurora police officers did not have the legal basis to stop or apprehend and assault mcclain. the report published monday says mcclain's encounter with the police was "a violent and relentless struggle." and that the limited video and audio available from the incident "reveal mr. mcclain surrounded by officers, all larger than he, crying out in pain, apologizing, explaining himself and pleading with the officers." mcclain was stopped by three police officers on august 24, 2019, as he was walking home from picking up an iced tea for his brother at a convenience store. he was tackled by police, placed in a chokehold, and was then injected with ketamine by paramedics.

he died on august 30 after days on life support. virginia is set to become the first state in the south to outlaw capital punishment after lawmaks voted monday to abolish the deatpenalty. democraticovernor ralph northam has pledd to sigthe legislion. virgin has carri out nearl 1400 ecutionsince 16 when itecame thfirst brish cony in noh americ and new jersey,overnor il murp signed ree billinto law mond legalizg and decriminalizg marijua in the -- marijuana. the legislation creates a regulated marijuana market and addresses the disproportionate arrests of people of color for marijuana possession. he said it was long overdue. >> new jersey's broken marijuana laws which permanently stain the records of many residents and have short-circuited their futures, in which

disproportionate her community's of color, and fail the meaning of justice at every level, social or otherwise, are no more. amy: and thosere some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the quarantine report. as the covid death hold passes a serving half-million, we will speak with york emergency room doctor craig spencer about the pandemic at home and abroad. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: song by the influential, pioneering jamaican reggae singer and dubmaster, u-roy, who has died at the age of 78. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the quarantine report. i'm amy goodman. it was a year ago this month when the united states confirmed its first, 19 death and their president -- and then-president trump vowed

"everything is under control." by the time president joe biden took the oath of office last month, the u.s. death toll from the virus had just crossed 400,000. in the last month, 100,000 more have lost their lives. at a sunset ceremony athe white house monday, president biden and kamala harris and their spouses led the country in a moment of communal morning, as covid deaths passed half a million. pres. biden: today we mark a truly grim, heartbreaking milestone. 500,071 dead. that is more americans who have died in one year in this pandemic than in world war i, world war ii, and the vietnam war combined. amy: biden has ordered flags on federal property to fly at

half for or five days. the number of new covid cases continues to fall across the united states, and the vaccine effort is speeding up. this comes as the head of the world health organization is calling on rich countries not to undermine efforts to get vaccines to poorer nations by buying the billions of doses -- in some cases, ordering enough to vaccinate their populations more than once. for more, we're joined by dr. craig spencer, director of global health in emergency medicine at columbia university medical center. he has been treating coronavirus patients since the pandemic began last year. his recent medium piece headlined "global vaccine inequities are dangerous for everyone." dr. spencer, welcome back to democracy now! this is a horrific milestone. half a million people dead in the united states. we have less than 5% of the worlds population but about 20%

of the world's death and infections. how did we get to this point? >> a year ago, i remember in new york city we had not had a case yet. we were hearing about cases around the country and around the world. italy was being hit really hard. we were prepared. we knew things in new york city would get bad, but we had no clue they would get as bad as they got. we certainly did not think that it was going to be this, that it would be around the country for so long. a part of that is because this virus is really good at what it does. a year ago, less than a year ago, dr. fauci said we may have 240,000 deaths. we have doubled that already and there certainly is going to be more. what i have been saying over the past year is a lot of this, this death toll, a lot of the destruction this virus has brought on this country in this world was because of our failure to adequately respond to treat as like the public health crisis that it was.

so much over the past year we have undermined the scientists. we have belittled the public health measures. i think we could have done this virus under control. because it wasn't done largely by this last administration, what we have now is come as you have noted, the most cases in the world, the most deaths in the world. now passing this grim milestone of over half a million americans and counting who have died from a virus that week certainly uld have controlled a lot better had we ken it riouy lot earlr on. amy: i want to ask you about vaccines. the first about what is happening here and then the rest of the world. you have two vaccines that have been proved in the united states. we still don't quite understand what it means for the vaccines to outpace the variants, the british and south africa variants.

are they going have to change the formulas under the vaccines to deal with this? and those who have the vaccine, will they have to get new shots? and how do more americans get shots at this point? >> those are great questions. the one thing i want to point out because this can be a little unclear. we see a bunch of different headlines most of the vaccines working? are they not? let me make this clear. the vaccines we have right now, the pfizer and moderna vaccines, are both extremely, extremely effective at getting you just preventing you from getting covid and hussle's asians and death. there truly miraculous. i want to encourage everyone to please get vaccinated when it is your opportunity to do so. there have been some concerns because there are these variants . we have those that have emerged out of u.k. and south africa are

now out of california. there will likely be many more. there have been some studies both in the lab as well as in a large population showing for some of the vaccines, their effectiveness may be blended by some of -- blunted by some of these. they have all prevented hospitalizations and deaths. the fact there been no deaths and hospitalizations in severe cases in the vaccine arm of these research trials is truly remarkable. yes, there will have to be some update likely over the next year and perhaps going on in the next few years in terms of the formulas for these vaccines. we know right now they are very protective. we know the fda has given guidance saying we're not going to have to go through do these whole 30,000, 40,000 person trials like initially for the vaccines. they will be able to tweak it

like they do on an annual basis for the flu shot to make it a lot easier for us to get this updated vaccine out to make sure that people are protected should variants emerge. amy: these are based on messenger rna. on friday, the fda advisers will be meeting to discuss emergency use authorization for johnson & johnson's covid-19 vaccine. can you explain the difference? that is also a one-shot. >> the pfizer and moderna vaccines up until now have been if it complicated because they were two shots. they previouy have been required to be kept at real cold tperatures that made it logistically difficult for many people. the beauty of the johnson & johnson vaccine is it is a well-known, older technology that has been shown to be very effective. as you pointed out, it is a lot

easier to transport and manage, a lot easier for smaller places, rural pharmacies, places internationally to manage. it is also great because it is just one shot. you get rid ofll of those logistics of thinking about whether people need to come back in three weeks or four weeks and what happens if they miss that or it needs to be delayed. there are multiple vaccine candidates on the horizon. hopefully, we wilget a little more nuanced in terms of which ones are better for certain populations. but what i've been telling people right now is if your do to get a vaccine, if you're able to get a vaccine appointment, you should take whatever vaccine you can get. i would not wait to try to get a pfizer or moderna or johnson & johnson. all of them have been proven to prevent severe covid, prevent hospitalizations, prevent people from dying from covid -- which is the most important milestone. amy: you wrote in your medium piece headlined "global vaccine

inequities are dangerous for everyone," -- "i pursley received more doses of a covid-19 vaccine then 130 countries." dr. spencer, explain. close i was lucky enough as a health care worker here in new york cy to be part of the initial phase of the vaccine rollout. i was extremely eager after having seen and been at the bedside of 70 people dying the stor from covid and worrying every time a way to work that i would get sick myself and pass along to my family. i was one of the first in line to get vaccinated when i could. that was two months ago. in that time, there are still over 130 countries that have not received a single dose of vaccine. there was at one point just a few weeks ago, we were the only country just one of the only countries in sub-saharan africa to get vaccinated was in guinea and they received 20 five doses.

not 2500, but 25. we all knew there was going to be an inequity. we knew that wealthy nations were going to gobble up vaccines like they gobbled up other technologies. the inequities that we have seen here were absolutely stunning. the wealthy nations in advanced economies have a lot of well over half of the vaccine doses via prepurchase agreements. despite representing a fraction of the global population. part of that is because covid has been worse in places like the u.k. and europe and the united states, but that does not mean it has not touched sub-saharan africa and other places around the world. nearly 4 million confirmed cases in africa with over 100,000 deaths. there is concern about a recent rise in cases there as well. my concern is i have been vaccinated, thankfully, but my friends who work in a clinic in southern africa may have to wait until 2022 or 2023 before they

have a chance to get a vaccine, even as we are being promised in this country that everyone will have a does by july. and we have via prepurchase agreements, ordered way more vaccine doses that we have people who are even eligible to receive them. amy: according to president biden, what, 600 million doses the u.s. should have by july, which would mean 300 million people vaccinated if it is two-shot. one shot, that it is way more. explain why people who in this country only care about what is happening here. even using that criteria about survival of people in the united states, the worst in the world should care about what is happening to people all over the world. >> christ question. we have seen so much pain -- great question. we have seen so much pain here, have not been able to eat in

restaurants, may have lost a loved one. it is easy to see the impact of covid here and while we want it to end as quickly as possible. you pointed out the 300 million people by july will be able to get vaccinated. that is just for adults. that is 250 million people we have eligible for vaccination in the u.s. we have not done trials on kids yet. that means we have 40 million more doses just of pfizer immigrant and then we do people who will be able to be vaccinated by that time. we also have johnson & johnson doses. hundreds of millions of doses that we have ordered most of we can hold onto them and hoard them or we can think about how we get other vulnerable populations around the world vaccinated. there are 59 million health care workers in the world. we can take a very small proportion of the doses we have ordered and help -- coordinate a program with the world health organization, with other international health bodies to

get those most vulnerable people in the world vaccinated so not only are we safe at home, but others are safe everywhere else. there are other reasons why that is important. stopping the virus from replicating in missouri is just as important as stopping the virus from replicating in mozambique. the more the virus has a chance to replicate, morbid chance to mutate. that is where you can get these concerning variants that may develop in other places that could land here and possibly undermine the efficacy of our vaccine. the other important thing, we all went to get back to work. we think getting vaccinated may be -- car parts from other countries. everything we need largely comes from other places. at those places are not being able to get back to work on the economic toll in the u.s. can be huge. it is estimated up to $9 trillion hit on the economy will

occur in 2021 alone if we continue with this vaccine nationalism, gobbling up all of these vaccine doses for use in wealthy countries and not thinking about other people around the world. the economic devastation could be huge. not just in those places, but here as well. it is in our public heth intest, our economic interest. most importantly, in our ethical and moral compass to be doing this. this ipart of our role. amy: finally, this has exposed the racial disparities in health care and economic disparities in this country, to say the least. like an x-ray. dr. spencer, can you talk about something that is left out of -- the networks, the corporate networks, there is a lot of discussion of the horror in this country. but what about the solutions? what about medicare for all? >> is unbelievable to me at this

point that despite being the wealthiest country and of the world, despite spending the most on health care per person by far of any country in the world, we still have tens of millions of people who every day remain unprotected and uninsured. look, as you pointed out, this pandemic has really shone a light on how bad that was. we have seen like an brown populations have disproportionately been impacted by the pandemic. a lot of that was because, yes, the virus itself and the mutations around it, but because of the system that existed in the infrastructure that existed or did not exist for those populations beforehand, we need to do everything we can to recognize. like vaccines, the economic benefit would be huge and making sure everyone had health care. we need to from a moral and ethical perspective make sure everyone who lives in this country has access to a doctor

and does not have to worry about going bankrupt because they're looking for treatment for something that prevented them from either working or going to school are contributing. it is absolutely essential on the other cited this we don't just go back to normal because normal was absolutely unsustainable, completely unacceptable, and we need to reimagine how we get everyone part of our economy, but must important, health care and make sure we provide -- what we should assume are the fundamental tenets of an advanced and humane health care system here in the u.s. that does not have until everyone is covered and has held -- health insurance. amy: dr. craig spencer has called us to work on the pandemic. can you imagine a world where the united states pushes vaccine, both giving and selling vaccines around the world as hard as it pushes selling weapons of war?

>> we certainly would be a lot safer if we got everyone vaccinated. here in the u.s., we have had 500,000 people die. at least 2.5 money people die from covid around the world. -- 2.5 million people die from covid around the world. look at the impact in the u.s. over $3 trillion spent, another 1.9 trillion coming. the impact has been greater than many wars. it is imperative we get covid controlled here in the u.s. but also impaired we get a controlled around the world and in addition, how we think about how we prepare and respond the next crisis. we can't build walls tall enough m oroats wide enough to keep out the next, whether it is a micro or virus. we need to be prepared because we will see this again. we have had multiple public health emergencies over the past

six years. we will have more and we need to be prepared to make investments now. part of that is making important investments and getting people vaccinated around the world, helping build health systems that can detect them before they reach our shores. amy: dr. craig spencer, thank you for being with us, director of global health in emergency medicine at columbia university medical center. has been treating covid-19 patients since a year ago almost exactly. next up, we honor black history month by remembering the visionary black feminist science fiction writer octavia butler. she died 15 years ago this week. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "walking in your footsteps" by toshi reagon. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the quarantine report. i'm amy goodman. to mark black history month, as well as the 25th anniversary of democracy now!, we turn now to one of the last television interviews given by the visionary black science fiction writer octavia butler. in november 2005, she came into democracy now's old firehouse studio. just three months later, butler

died on february 24, 2006, after she fell outside her home outside of seattle, washington. she was 58 years old. butler was the first black woman to win the hugo and nebula awards for science fiction writing. she was also the first science fiction writer to receive a macarthur genius fellowship. butler's best known books include the classics "kindred" as well as "parable of the sower" and "parable of the talents" -- two thirds of a trilogy that was never finished. published in 1993, "parable of the sower" is set in the 2020's in california amid a global climate and economic crisis. octavia butler described them as cautionary tales. >> they were what i call cautionary tales. if we keep misbehaving ourselves, ignoring what we have

been ignoring, doing what we have been doing to the environment for instance, here's what we are liable to wind up with. amy: in her books, octavia butler also wrote about slavery, fascism, religious fundamentalism, and more. her work inspired a new generation of black science fiction writers. she has been called "the mother of afrofuturism." and octavia butler's audience has continued to grow. in september, she made it "the new york times" bestseller list for the first time -- 50 years after she began writing and nearly 15 years after her death. juan gonzalez and i interviewed octavia butler in november 2005. it was shortly after hurricane katrina devastated new orleans. president george w. bush, the former governor of texas, was in the white house overseeing the u.s. wars in iraq and afghanistan. part of this interview aired live but some of it has never been broadcast before.

juan: how did you first start writing science fiction? you grew up in pasadena? how did you first become attracted to that type of writing? >> oh, i think i loved it because does well, i felt into writing it because i saw that movie, called "double girl from mars." when into competition with it. i think i stayed with it because it gave you a chance to comment on every aspect of humanity. people think of science fiction as star wars or star trek. the truth is, there are no closed doors. there are no required formulas. you can go anywhere with it. amy: we are talking to octavia butler. her latest book is "fledgling" wrote the "parable" series.

as katrina was happening, in the aftermath, a lot of people were talking about how the series made them think about that. >> i wrote the two parable looks back in the 1990's. they are books about come as i said, what happens because we don't trouble to correct some of the problems that we are brewing for ourselves right now. global warming is one of those problems. and i was aware of it back in the 1980's. i was reading books about them. and a lot of people were seeing it as politics, as something very iffy, as something they could ignore because nothing was going to come of it tomorrow. that and the fact -- i think i was paying a lot of attention to education because a lot of my friends were teachers, and the politics of education was getting scarier it seemed to me. we were getting to that point

where we were thinking more about the building of prisons than of schools and libraries. and i remember while i was working on the novels, my hometown, pasadena, had a bond issue that they passed to aid libraries. and i was so happy that it passed because so often these things don't. and they had closed a lot of branch libraries and were able to reopen them. so not everybody was going in the wrong direction, but a lot of the country still was. and i wanted -- and what i wanted to write was a novel of someone who is coming up with solutions of a sort. my main character's solution is -- well, grows from another religion that she comes up with. religion is everywhere. there are no human societies without it. whether they acknowledge it as a

religion or not. so i thought religion might be an answer as well as, in some cases, a problem. and, for instance, "parable of the sower" and "parable of the talents" it is both. i have people bringing america to a kind of fascism because their religion is the only one they're willing to tolerate. on the other hand, have pele who are saying, "well, here's another religion and here are some verses that can help us think in a different way, and here's a destination that isn't something that we have to wait for after we die amy: could you read little bit? >> i'm going to read a verse or two. keep in mind, these were written early in the 90's.

but i think they apply forever, actually. this first one, i have a character in the books who is just well, someone who is taking the country manages -- country fascist and who manages to get elected president and who, oddly enough, comes from texas. and here's one of the things that my character is inspired to write about this sort of situation. she says -- "you sure leaders with wisdom and forethought. to be led by a coward is to be controlled by all that the coward fears. to be led by a fool is to be led by the opportunists who control the fool. to be led by a thief is to offer up your most precious treasures to be stolen. to be led by a liar is to ask to be lied to.

to be led by a tyrant is to sell yourself and those you love into slavery." and there is one other that i thought i should read because i see it happening so much. i got the idea for it when i heard someone answer a political question with a political slogan. and he did not seem to realize he was quoting somebody. he seemed to have thought that he had a creative thought there. and i wrote this verse -- "beware -- all too often, we say what we hear others say. we think what we are told that we think. we see what we are permitted to see. worse, we see what we are told that we see. repetition and pride are the

keys to this. to hear and to see even an obvious lie again and again and again may be to say it, i must by reflex, and then to defend it because we have set it. and at last, too abrasive because we have defended it. and because we cannot admit that we have embraced and defended any obvious lie, thus without thought, without intent, we make your echoes of ourselves and we say what we hear others say." just one more comment on the human condition, i guess. amy: octavia butler, a lot of the themes of your books are about being a nice outer. -- being an outsider.

talk about that. here you are a science fiction writer. it is rare the way you weave in issues of race, power, religion. it is rare to be a black woman science fiction writer. >> when i was getting started, there was one other man, one of my teachers, and we were having a panel discussion at a library one day and somebody asked, well, how many of their are you? we looked at each other we said, we are two thirds. there was one other man in canada who was writing who has since gone a different direction. so things are better now, but there was a time -- align amy: why do you think that is? clubs i think part of it is just because people do they see other people doing. i had a student come up to me at

michigan state university. this was a young black woman many years ago. and said, i always loved scien fiction, i always wanted to write it, but i do not think we did that. she was afraid if she got into it, there would be closed doors. life is short. sometimes people don't want to take the risk of running into closed doors. my friends said to me, you're doing all of this and we thought you're so brave and after a while we decided you just did not have any sense. [laughter] i have never really wanted to do anything else. juan: when you tour around, obviously the people come to the readings by the fancy regularly follow you, what is the sense of your readers in terms of what their most attracted to in your

writing? >> have always had at least three groups, identifiable groups of readers. i remember trying to convince by publishers of this early on. having no success until i went with a smaller publisher. and they used to have their own independent bookstores. there are still a few independents left, but there were science-fiction, black, and feminist. and they still are. of course, now some mainstream. i am always glad there are more readers and people find out about me. people keep telling me, o, i would have ready before, but i have never heard of you. amy: what about the power of fundamentalist religion? >> i was raised in a fundamentalist church. i was raised baptist. when of my grandfathers was a

baptist preacher. -- one of my grandfathers was a baptist preacher. i am grateful for one thing specifically. had that conscience installed early. it is a monster of a conscience. i cannot really get away with things. i'm not worried about being caught by other people. my own conscience is going to get me. it is when people begin using their religion as just a way of getting power over other people that scares me. i'm afraid that is what is going on in a lot of cases right now. when people deliberately tell lies, creationism residents instance, and pretend, oh, it is not really religion, they know they are lying and yet they are the religious people. there something wrong there. when people use the religion to hurt other people to say, oh,

well, no, you have two embrace this means of sex education and not that one because our religion says so. it is a misuse. but i guess religion is such a powerful thing it is bound to be misused. amy: as we wrap up this interview i'm afraid young people, as you said, that you think perhaps there are few black women science fiction writers because they have not seen them before -- >> there are more now. the anecdote i told you was several years ago. amy: but when you were a kid -- >> there were none. amy: so how did you go into it? >> with my eyes tightly shut. i assumed i could do it. i was not being brave or even thoughtful. i wanted it. i assumed i could have it. amy: what advice do you have for young people today? >> who want to write?

oh, definitely, that they should. it is difficult and sometimes impossible. here i am coming up a very long writers block so i can imagine -- amy: how long? >> seven years. [laughter] it did not mean i wasn't writing. writers block is not when i'm not running, it is when i'm writing nothing worthwhile. amy: and your advice for those suffering from writers block? >> keep writing. the old idea that behavior that gets repeated gets rewarded tends to get repeated. if you stop writing, then you're kind of rewarding yourself with not writing. if you keep writing, after a while your brain maybe gets the idea. i'm not sure i said that very clearly, but i hope you know what i mean. just that if you are a writer,

you cannot stop writing. i used to have a teacher that said, "if anything can prevent you being a writer, don't you want." amy: the visiory feminist black science-fiction writer octavia butler speaking on democracy now! in november 2005 in one of her final television interviews. she died on february 24, 2006 -- 15 years ago this week -- after a fall outside her home. to talk more about octavia butler's legacy, we are joined by the writer and activist adrienne maree brown. she and the musician toshi reagon co-host "octavia's parables," a podcast that dives deeply into octavia butler's books "parable of the sower" and "parable of the talents." adrienne maree brown is also co-editor of the book "octavia's brood: science fiction stories from social justice movements." she is joining us from detroit.

it is great to have you with us. the last time we had you on, we were talking about octavia. if you can just briefly talk about her biography and then her significance in the world of literature but also this visionary look at what is happening today. >> thank you for the opportunity to share. i love speaking about octavia. i will talk about her every day if i can. she gave us 12 novels and a collection of short stories. she took us as she took herself from california, drove across the country to get her story for kindred, took herself north to seattle. one of the most famous stories we just heard about is her protagonist character making her way north. as octavia learned and as she questioned, as she wondered how are humans going to find a way to survive on this planet, she asked those questions and brought them into the text. in her text we see all of the

ways she was trying to answer those questions, trying to trouble the waters, trying to give as something super compelling to look forward to. the work she did, one leader called it -- amy: talk about what led her to write. we heard some of her desk she described her so. the whole genre of afrofuturism and what that means. >> i think when she was down or 10 years old, she saw "the devil girl from mars" and thought she could write something better than that. so she started to write her own short stories come her own novels. she had the idea of the series when she was quite young and kept writing. it ended up being her first novel. she wrote the series backwards. read the story -- i love knowing

that -- she wrote backwards to find out the source of the story. she was a worker. she was a laborer. she was always working and her labor process would be waking up in 3:00 in the morning that she needed to do it, a positive obsession is what she called it. it would be remiss of me to not say just like many of us, she was looking at the world around her and feeling terrified and feeling, how are we going to change this? what happens if this goes on? it led her to write. it it it up feeling prophetic. there is a way she took what was happening around h, what she saw as a vershy, introverted, powerful black woman, super sexy underwrite, looking at the world

around her and figuring out come how do i think about community? how do i think about organizing and change? that is how she did it. she wrote in on these pages for us. afrofuturism i will say is a thrilling -- to me, a thrilling arena. now there is african futurism, all ese arenas where basically black people and people of african lineage are saying, we were almost erased from the linee. people wanted to have us erase wasn't we are writing ourselves back in. we are creating stories that are rooted in african heritage and articulate an african fure. it is an exciting place to be inside of as creative -- amy: she is seen as a deeply feminist writer. how are women, especially black women, represented in her work? and how they grapple with the real world power structures?

even the publishing world, you have this example of a 1987 publisher still insisted on putting two white women on the jacket of her novel "dawn" whose main character is black. >> yes. so much is changed because of the work of octavia, because of others, but i think one of the things that was so powerful to me when i first picked up octavia is she with the strong like feminine characters, these protagonists who now, look bac and see as non-binary, the clearness, and other things. at the time, she was runng these characters i was like, oh, these young black women and they are leaving. what happened over and over in the stories is that people doubted their capacity not only to lead, but to be of use in any way. and her characters, rather than pushing and fighting, they would turn inward, get aligned with

what they thought. there would be like, i have a greater destiny. my destiny will take me beyond anything your oppression can hold me from. over and over again we watch those characters follow that path to destiny and take themselves and anyone who wants to come with them -- which i also think is important. she wrote about black women and about like feminism, about blood features, but wrote in a way that i peeled all human beings. i think to me that is one of the essence of feminism. we are saying we are right here, equal to anyone else and able to lead as much as anyone else. she understood that and wrote beautifully. amy: adrienne maree brown, thank you for being with us co-host , the podcast "octavia's parables." co-editor of the book "octavia's brood: science fiction stories from social justice movements." on wednesday, symphony space in new york will present an

all-star presentation of octavia butler to mark the 15th anniversary of her death and that will be virtually. you can check it out online. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to

thank you for joining us. from our studio in tokyo, this is nhk "newsline." we start this hour in the u.s. where world famous golfer tiger woods is in hospital after a serious car accident in los angeles. officials say woods suffered injuries to both of his legs, and local media report he has undergone emergency surgery.