♪ this is al jazeera head these are the top stories. russia is expelling 10 u.s. diplomats, banning former and current u.s. officials entering the country, response to a similar move by the u.s. over alleged russian cyber attacks and election interference. here is bernard smith. bernard: tenuous diplomatic russia will have to leave. russia -- 10 u.s. diplomats will have to leave russia. this is because the u.s. sanctioned russians. it is going to stop the u.s.

embassies and missions from hiring russians and other third-country nationals to work in their missions, this will affect everything from drivers" to analyst staff. it has also been suggested by the russian foreign ministry that the u.s. ambassador here goes back to washington for consultations because the russian ambassador is in moscow for consultations. 1 several your anchor: several european leaders are urging russia to reverse the russian troop buildup on the border with ukraine. this follows a videoconference with leaders from germany, france and ukraine. police in indianapolis have identified the gunman who killed eight fedex workers before killing himself. 19-year-old brandon whole was a former employee of the carrier company. he had previously been

interviewed by the fbi after his mother called police, flagging mental health concerns. the mother of a young black man shot dead by police during a traffic stop has issued an emotional plea for justice. relatives and friends of daunte wright gathered in minneapolis a day after the officer who shot him appeared in court to be charged with manslaughter. officials in the u.s. and japan said they will work together to -- to meet challenges posed by china. prime minister suga is the first foreign leader to meet with president biden in washington. raul castro is stepping down as leader of cuba, ending 60 years of leadership by him and his brother fidel. "inside story" on al jazeera is coming up next. we will see you after. ♪

♪ >> the u.s. slaps sanctions on moscow as the biden administration is taking relations with russia in a different direction after the trump era. how will it impact around the globe? this is "inside story," -- this is "inside story." >> hello and welcome to the show. i'm sammy's a dan -- i'm sammy zadan. the white house has signed off on new sanctions against moscow

for hacking federal agencies, election interference and other hostile acts. biden insists the u.s. is not looking to kick up a cycle with russia but wants a stable relationship. the russian intelligence services responding in kind, accusing washington of eroding international stability. first, this report from our white house correspondent. kimberly: they are some of the most punitive u.s. measures against russia in years. >> today, i have approved several steps, including expulsion of several russian officials. kimberly: just days after a phone call between u.s. president joe biden at russian president vladimir putin to secure a u.s. desire for a predictable relationship, the u.s. announced surprise russia sanctions. >> we cannot allow a foreign power to interfere in our democratic process with impunity. kimberly: more than 30 russian

entities are targeted. at least 10 russian diplomats will be expelled from the united states, and some tech firms are being punished for allegedly providing support to russian intelligence. the sanctions also put in place rules banning some financial dealings involving russian sovereign debt, to choke off lending and inflict economic harm. >> we want a stable, predictable relationship. if russia continues to interfere in our democracy, i prepared to take further actions to respond. kimberly: the white house says the sanctions are retaliation for russia's alleged aggressive actions, including occupation of crimea, interference in u.s. presidential elections, and last year's solar winds have that infiltrated -- hack that infiltrated the computers of thousands of u.s. businesses and government agencies the sanctions also respond to unconfirmed intelligence alleging russia offered bounties as high as $100,000 for killing u.s. elders enough keniston.

-- u.s. soldiers in afghanistan. u.s. intelligence has not confirmed to the bounty program. still, the u.s. says, >> we will not accept targeting of our u.s. personnel. this puts the burden on the russian government to explain their engagement. kimberly: the sanctions come just days after u.s. intelligence identified russia as one of the most serious threats to the u.s. and officials warn that sanctions may not be the only retaliation, suggesting clandestine actions may be yet to come. al jazeera, the white house. ♪ >> for more on this now, i joining by guests from boston , massachusetts, a former intelligence officer for the cia and in london, a former

political advisor and cio foreign agency. and in moscow, correspondent for a news agency in russia. if i could start in boston, glenn, do these sanctions indicate the biden administration is going to take a very different approach to russia then we saw under the donald trump administration? >> absolutely that is the case. it is a return to a more traditional kind of relationship, tit-for-tat, a carrot and stick relationship between rivals, which is how international relationships function. until biden took office, we had, for four years, someone who was at the very least compromised by russian intelligence and clearly involved with it, at the very least. 1 hal anchor: how do we know that --

anchor: how do we know he was compromised? i do we know for sure -- how do we know for sure? >> by observing every statement and policy action that he took for four years. you don't have to go behind curtains to see that when all 17 agencies of the u.s. intelligence community detect collusion it vied evidence to support it and the president then support the kremlin and vladimir putin, it is clear. there are hundreds of examples of that. plus, hundreds of examples of contacts with russian intelligence officials and members of trump's entourage. there is no allegation. it is established. anchor: i don't want to get caught up in detail, but you were a former c.i.a. officer, are you saying you saw evidence of the -- of donald trump being compromised? i understand what you are saying

, deducing from how he would approach his intelligence agencies. but now i am asking, the statement you made about him actually compromised. >> if we say we need a photograph of him doing something, excepting an envelope of money, the classic example, that we do not have. we do have, however, overwhelming numbers of evidence substantiating dramatic financial interweaving by russian oligarch's and other figures -- russian oligarchs and intelligence figures and the trump family, for decades. so yes, that constitutes contact. anchor: demetri, how is moscow reading the biden administration? visit see a tougher u.s. approach undivided -- u.s. approach to russia under biden? >> russia was unpleasantly

surprised by the news, let's put it mildly, undiplomatic language about our president. and then into weeks -- and then, in two weeks, he says personal relations are very important between him and president putin. but we are used to this. the u.s. is no longer a democratic country. it divides the world into democracies and non-democracies. the united states sometimes babes in a very totalitarian matter, which we are familiar with. it started with hitler's at the end of the 1930's -- it started with hitler at the end of the 1930's. same story with biden. yesterday, putin was a killer. today, we are going to have a summit meetingomewhere and those allegations are very important. the narrative about trump being russian agent and soft on russia is false.

you just have to look at the facts. trump expelled more russian diplomat than any u.s. president in history. he believed a very, very murky story about the poisoning of mr. skripal and the u.k.. no one had seen mr. skripal after he was poisoned, we never did any interviews. we cannot believe reddish intelligence per the same story about trump's collusion with russia. robert mueller came to the conclusion there was no collusion between trump's campaign ad russia. -- campaign and russia. that was in robert mueller's report. anchor: let me pick up on one point so we don't get bogged

down in the history of donald trump, but is your point you mentioned that the u.s. is no longer a democratic country? do you mean to tell viewers that the u.s. is less democratic than russia right now? does that justify perhaps the russian approach, or does it disqualify allegations of russian interference in american elections, and their federal agencies? >> i hate to compare which country is better, this is against international law. every country is sovereign. every country has its way to freedom and its way to happiness. but just listen to what glenn told us. the u.s. has 17 secret agencies, the same number old nazi germany had. they are all secret agencies.

micro sees don't need secret agencies. -- democracies don't need secret agencies. you can read it in "the wall street journal" and you can see what happened during the last year and basically, there are lots of examples when the united states behaved towards its own citizens so unjustly that it would not tolerate such behavior in another country. anchor: does that justify allegations of russian hacking of the u.s.? most viewers would see it as a better example of democracy than what is prevailing in russia, right? >> i don't want to compare because i don't want to raise my own country. i can only tell you i am now talking to you and i am not afraid of foreign correspondence, i have been talking to foreign

correspondents for 30 years, since gorbachev's time and we have freedom of expression. no correspondent is going to tell me what i should tell you or not tell you. there is absolutely zero evidence of russian hacking. what we have got, these are only words from mr. biden and his officials. they never presented any proof, any recordings that this was taken by russia. anchor: i am sure glenn is going to want to come back on that stuff but before that, if we could stay focused on these latest sanctions and what they need for russia and the world, to what extent will these sanctions complicate russia's ability to raise money in international monemarket? >> that is a good question. before i get to that, the conversation between glenn and

demetri shows the vitriol between the u.s. and russia when itomes to politics and economic affairs. you must realize the relationship between russia and the u.s. goes back a long way and they have both been superpowers during the cold war. and their political systems have changed. they have a lot of experience in international affairs to have their wishes met. but when it comes to sovereign debt sanctions put on by biden, i don't think this is what to do a lot because you have to realize that these sanctions have been put on primary markets, which means effectively that u.s. asset managers cannot buy them in -- buy them directly, by can buy them on a secondary market. so i don't think this will do much to impact the economy of russia. in fact, this could somehow have a positive effect on russia as well, because you have to remember, if the currency of

russia goes down after this measure, this makes tech-support cheaper, which means russia's biggest trading partner is china, so we will see the end intended consequence impact china by making imports of oil into china cheaper. this may have unintended consequences moving forward. this makes moving uneconomic sanctions much more slow because they will find out if there are economic consequences to the sanctions. because the political effects, naming and shaming the actors, is a tied and tested method and there is no more explaining to be had. going back what glenn said about the carrot and stick situation another biden is in office, we will see this more, i don't think the u.s. as a carrot left in its bag of tricks to bring any nation into compliance with international law, because i

think they have exhausted everything they have, and sanctions tend to be the first thing they go to, but they don't move on anything else. sami: glenn, did the biden administration liberally perhaps engineer these sanctions and a way not to impact russian economy so severely, by not going after the secondary bond market? >> that is good point. sanctions are accrued to a, always. but it is also true that the u.s. and every other country tries to calibrate sanctions to send a message as clear as it can. so i don't know, i think you are surmising about the sanctions being done in a manner to send a

message, and yet leave it clear to the russians that there is a way forward, is probably what the biden administration is doing. that is standard. the point is, for the biden administration, as it is for any country, to make sure that there will be some costs if actions are taken against the united states that are considered by the u.s. hospital -- hostile, not simply to cause pain. which is why biden said in the statement that we are looking forward to working together. sami: then what will the costs be if russia can get around this? >> that is the point. often, they don't work. you can send a message in trying to exact -- message and try to exact some pain and in this case, the message to russia is complicated and may not work at all. but i can tell you that sanctions have never stopped a

foreign power from pursuing its interests as it defines them. so the russians have never stopped and will continue to. . conduct their own operations sami: i'm sure plenty of others -- continue to conduct their own operations. sami: i'm sure plenty of people would say the u.s. conducts operations against other countries as well. how concerned is russia about these sanctions? would we be right in assuming moscow isn't worried about negative impact on its economy? >> well, moscow is worried about the language of these sanctions. mr. biden, if you read his executive order imposing sections on russia, he basically says, i declare a national emergency in the united states. so russia is so dangerous that biden thanks you need a national emergency when you impose

sanctions on russia. that is very, very destructive language, because it is hostile language. i have the executive order before me. the fact that anyone who works in any sector of the russian economy can be a target of sanctions, not only people who operate in our defense sector, this is also new. so basically, any businessman, not only from the united states but from other countries, who cooperated with a country that the u.s. doesn't like for some reason, is now under threat. that is against western values, just like the so-called mcginn ski act is against -- magnitsky act is against western values, because their rights can be limited, travel can be limited, not because of decision by the courts, but by decisions taken by bureaucracy basing its

decisions on newspaper reports paid that is very concerning -- newspaper reports. that is very concerning. as for the economy, the russian economy is stable, we survived the coronavirus pandemic better than the united states. despite predictions from the united states. i don't like shade denfraude. sami: we should get back on topic. the coronavirus is a big issue. let me ask this question. are we necessarily heading toward deterioration between the u.s. and russia in relations? you could look back to the 1980's and see the sort of

stance ronald reagan took towards the then soviet union, it would have been described as a very tough stance but ultimately come limited -- ultimately culminated in warm relations with gorbachev. >> right now, we can't put anything the biden does at the beginning of his presidency on any kind of pedestal to show that he is different from anyone else and is going to have a markedly different u.s. foreign policy. because he hasn't had time to do anything serious when he came into power, he did everything that was easy, he signed back up in the paris accord, stated he wants to get the iran deal back on track, these are easy things to do. but when it comes to difficult issues like what to do with russia and the hybrid nature of warfare that we see happening these days, his response needs

to be more multifaceted. the way the world works today, sami, there are no longer two superpowers. china it is a rising power. other powers are taking up american attention and the u.s. already has enough on its hands to be able to deal with such complex relationships. and i think it is very early in the biden presidency to state anything concrete about what is mark of the u.s. will be. sami: this segues nicely into what we have to raise, and that is whether we are going to see tensions now on a number of issues and flashpoints around the world that involve the u.s. and russia, whether we are talking ukraine, syria, important gas to europe, and arctic shipping. >> the simple answer is yes.

russia has sought for years influence in the international system. sami: hasn't the u.s. sought the same? i'm sure dmitry could point at the same for the u.s. and many countries. >> yes and no. i am not pointing at the united states as an innocent player, but the u.s. has on the whole sought a normative international system of rules that does benefit the united states is the strongest power. one could say it is in its self-interest, and that is true. but russia, as a relatively new power but great power, seeks to reassert in europe its influence that it lost after the fall of the berlin wall. so we should expect to see increasing tensions over ukraine, the baltics unfortunately, but that is true.

similarly in the middle east, where russia has been quite successful and aggressive and becoming more influential there, specifically in syria, and the u.s. is probably going to contest that, even though in a larger sense, the u.s. is slowly considering the middle east less strategic than it has. so in a number of areas, yes, tensions are likely to get worse. sami: demetri, russia is warning about the sanctions move eroding international stability. as moscow looking perhaps at other global issues, global flashpoints where it may, for want of a better word, try to play its cards to get back at the u.s. over sanctions? >> we hate to play the zero-sum game. we went to live peacefully, as a peaceful nation. and of course it is a travesty

to accuse europe of aggression in russia. look at the map in 1991 and a map now. where did the borders move? where was nato in 1991 and where is it now? where was the soviet union in 1991 adware is russia now? -- 1991 and where is russia now? it was all done without a shot. russia wanted to be friends with the united states, and we were horribly deceived by the leadership and also by the european union. but it doesn't mean we want to restart the cold war ii. the u.s. and europe are unfortunately turning ukraine into a new africa, like there are areas where the soviet union in the united states led proxy wars in the 1980's, very destructive proxy wars.

now ukraine is in the same situation. we want to avoid it. that is a tragedy unfolding for our eyes. sami: we are out of time. i would like to thank our guests for what has been a really good discussion in sharing different viewpoints around this issue. thanking glenn carl, liz, and demetri. thank you for watching. see the show anytime by visiting aljazeera.com. head over to our facebook page, facebook/ajinsidestory. for me, sami zeidan, and all of us here, thanks for joining us. ♪

úç