>> this is al jazeera and these are the tops tories. an israeli missile has exploded near a facility, fired during israeli airstrikes inside syria. israel says it is targeting sites in syria and retaliation. the u.s. justice department announced an investigation into the minneapolis police department less than one day after former officer derek chauvin was found guilty of murdering george floyd. there is anger over the killing

of a teenage a black girl in the u.s. state of ohio. police released body-camera footage of police shooting the girl as she appeared to try to stab another girl with a knife. marchers expressed outrage at the mayor says an independent investigation has been now launched. >> we don't have all the facts, but we do know that a 16-year-old girl, a child in this community, tragically died last night. we released the officer's body-worn camera footage as soon as possible and will release other information as soon as we can. we need to be careful about not compromising the investigation. anchor: the southern mexican state of mr. o'connor has been -- has become ground zero for a bloody drug between drug cartels

-- bloody drug war between drug cartels. russian president vladimir putin says moscow will respond to any provocation but says he wants good relations with other countries. thousands rallied the countrywide, demanding the release of alexey navalny. those are headlines, more owning up after the bottom line. goodbye for now. ♪ steve: almost one year after the death of george floyd, is there hope this constantly replaying dynamic will change? let's get to "the bottom line."

♪ george floyd's death at the hands of minneapolis police almost one year ago sparked massive demonstrations and forced americans from all backgrounds to wonder about their police officers' attitudes toward black americans. now, the nation braces for a verdict in the trial of derek chauvin, the officer who kept his knee on floyd's neck for more than nine minutes during his arrest. but the problem has sadly not ended the death of george floyd. not far from where he died, a policewoman killed 19-year-old daunte wright during a traffic stop. social activists say the list of killings keeps adding longer and radical change is needed. some argue these are nothing other than modern-date lynchings. but is the movement to d -- but as the movement to defund the police loses traction, what fixes are out there? today we are talking with the president of the national conference of black lawyers,

which launched an inquiry on systemic police violence against people of african dissent in the united states and is about to release those findings. professor james foreman junior teaches law at yale university and is the author of the book "locking up our own: crime and punishment in black americans." thanks for joining us. these are tense times. come out, but we also have ato trial going on and a verdict expected with derek chauvin. and as we produce the show, i am very aware that three black people on average in the united states will die in the next 24 hours as a result of police actions. can you explain what the stakes are in the chauvin trial? nada: the stakes are high in many ways. we are looking at, how was the

jury going to make its decision, what are they going to be talking about, thinking about, how are they taking all the information provided, and across the country and really across the world, people are waiting to see whether or not this verdict is a reflection of things to come. i think that when we look at this as the national conference of black lawyers, we look at this as something that is systemic. police violence is not just about derek chauvin. so regardless of the verdict, we have been doing this work for the past 50 years addressing systemic police violence, looking fundamentally at how this affects black liberation and human rights. we know it is not just about one cop, one police department or one city, that this is systemic violence, anti-black violence that needs to be addressed at its core. the goal of our commission of

inquiry and this report is to help folks see how that can happen, what are the findings this international commission made, what of the recommendations, and to bring this issue of police violence in the enacted states against black people to the international arena. families and organizations attempted to do it last june by bringing it to the enacted nations. anchor: thank you. james, you and i have known each other for a couple decades and i have been reading your writing and your thoughts and concerns over what we are talking about today. last week in "the washington post," you and a co-author wrote that one of the actions that can shatter black lives is having expired tags or temporary plates on their car. can you go further? james: absolutely. i am very much looking forward to seeing this report. it is very important. i agree with you, it is a systemic issue.

when i was in law school in the early 1990's, it was when the rodney king trial lace -- king trial took place. i remember being sure he was going to be convicted and i remember having my faith in the lot -- and i was a critic, i understood the history of racism, but my class mates and i all saw that video and were sure the officers who beat him were going to be convicted. and here we are now, waiting for another verdict and another trial. there is another generation of young black people -- my son is 11 years old and we talk about this case every day, so there is another generation of people who are asking the question, when somebody has been so clearly and brutally treated by the state, murdered, is there going to be accountability? but steve, that really is just the beginning. the article you are referencing that my student tj grayson and i

wrote wasrying to make the point that, as long as we have police doing so many of these functions that could be done by nonpolice actors, we are going to have unnecessary violence and unnecessary racism and unfairness. so i think going forward, the big challenge we face as a nation is yes, to have accountability in individual cases like what we are seeing now in indianapolis, but we have to be asking ourselves, do we need and want police to be doing as much as they have been tasked to do? do we need them responding to people who are suffering from addiction, people suffering from mental health crises? do we need them enforcing traffic laws the way they have done? that is what that op-ed was trying to do, to say, what if we read today nonpolice force,

civilians, unarmed, who are responsible for keeping our roads safe. that is the kind of thinking i think we are going to need to undertake as a nation going forward. steve: thank you. what is your thinking on that? and i have to be honest -- i have done various shows on this, i have seen friends of mine pulled over because they were racially profiled, driving through white community, i have seen this for years and years. i interviewed former republican governor of new jersey chris christie and said, in camden, they had to reduce the police department down to its foundations, get rid of officers and reinstitute very different training. congresswoman val demings, former orlando police chief said we need to have a national commission on police training. i haven't seen any of these

happen broadly in the country and i thought after the george lloyd murder and the protest, and so many other murders we saw this past year, something was going to change. as anything changed this past year? nada: my answer would be no, first of all. my answer would be no. i ess we were going to law school at the same time, james, but i was here in los angeles during the rebellion, during the rodney king beating as well as the rebelln after the acquittal of the four cops that beat him. and there was the christopher commission, there was all this energy that went into making this different from now on. and as we have seen, that hasn't and that the case. when we talk about where we can reduce the police force, what we can do, i am really looking forward to you, brother james, do you and all the -- to you and all the folks at al jazeera on the gund, and their attorneys

getting into this report. because commissioners heard 44 cases, families and attorneys as well as organizers and activists , case by case, including george floyd, breonna taylor, botham jean, kayla moore, and others. and then heard expert testimony from folks talking about historic violence, all the way to andrea ritchie talking about police violence against black women, gender nonconforming and trans people. so this analysis about pretextual traffic stops is in the report, about mental illness, so many of these cases involve traffic stops, people with mental illness, people looking for help in calling the police to get some help come and folks are ending up dead. that -- and in one case, paralyzed, that we looked at. so there is recommendations hear the talk about the domestic issue, looking at what can be

done domestically, all the way from training to reform to aspects of appellation, when you are talking about defunding the police. you find that in this report. but there is also conversations and findings around the issue of how we take this in international context, what are international rules about law enforcement and the use of force, and the commission found again and again that police in the united states don't only not follow the laws in the united states with impunity, but violate international law. in fact, the commissioners found , importantly and uniquely in this report, that systemic police violence in the united states against black people constitutes a crime against humanity under the rome statute,

that it is a widespread attack on a civilian population, in this case, black folks in the united states, accomplished through murder, torture and other qualifying me. it is one of the main highlights of the report. steve: i want to underscore this point, i found it so fascinating. thank you for letting me take a look at the report early, but you basically say we are unable to fix this and need international intervention. we need the international criminal court to take action because the united states has proved itself unable to take the corrective measures that need to be taken. i want to underscore that i have that right. and i know there are complexities, but what would it take for action like that to take place? nada: the international prosecutor of the icc has the capacity under the rome statute to do it on their own. they can say, we are looking

we see that this happens with other countries. some reason, there is a reticence, i say for some reason, we know what they are, but there is reticence for that to happen in the united states. and are calling for that to happen we are also calling on the biden administration to voluntarily subject united states to the jurisdiction of icc, for such an inquiry to happen. this administration indicated black folks, and his words, "brung hampton the dance," and it was because of black folks in the work that we did in terms of voting etc., that he is in power right now. this needs to be addressed and one of the good faith actions should not just be to sign the treaty and all those pieces that take time, but to immediately say yes, the u.s. is open to the jurisdiction of the court, put itself under jurisdiction of the international criminal court and allow there to be this inquiry at that level. steve: thank you.

james, i used powerful language in the opening of today's show and talked about our horrible legacy in this country of black lynchings and how some have viewed this police brutality in these murders we have seen over a very long, unending period of time as lynchings by other means, but there have been other changes in atmosphere, in tools and tactics, in recent decades, like the global war on terror ended up with police department selling equipment they never would have had had that not occurred. and there are also complicit players in this which you have written about, which i found so interesting and brave, to a degree. you say we have had black leaders in america that are culpable, that participated in over-incarcerating men in the black community, creating a culture that destroyed families and ripped the fabric apart.

i would love to give you an opportunity to talk not just about this and during problem, but -- this and urine problem -- this enduring problem and how the war on terror back lashed into some of these issues as well? james: that is right, and when you think about what happened in this country in terms of yielding mass incarceration and building this incredibly repressive set of police forces that operate in a lot of cities. those go hand-in-hand. there were a lot of people that played a role in helping develop that. it was really national, it was bipartisan in many ways, and you point out my book is about this. it crossed racial lines. i think black leaders and black politicians who were pushing for this, i am somewhat more sympathetic to their position, i think their motivation in many

cases true out of real care and concern for their community and desperation. they wanted to do something in the tools they had were so limited, so they did turn to the police. nonetheless, even though i am sympathetic to their motives, i am critical of a lot of decisions made in the 1980's and 1990's, the militarization that is a result of this global war on terror, and the question we face now is how we respond and charge a different path forward. i want to complement what nada was saying about the international she went up to the international level and i want to go down and say the other place we have the potential to resist is at the very local level, the very micro level. so when you asked whether anything had changed in the last year, i would say that while police violence hasn't changed

and racial profiling hasn't changed, what has changed is this movement of activists and local organizers and young people. my students, i see them every day, they arrive with a fervor and commitment and they are doing very smart things. they are going to city councils, county councils, they are going to mayor's offices and they are looking up police union contracts and they are asking, why do we have collective bargaining agreements that allow police officers, when they shot somebody, to have eight or 10 days before they are even interviewed by an investigator? why are they allowed to look at the body camera footage before they file their police report? why are we funding in our cities, pulleys to do things, 10 and 15 and 20 times more money than we are funding school counselors and mental health counselors? the one source of optimism i see at the local level is, i think

there is incredible energy over the last six months, over 140 laws have passed across the country in some way, to restrict and reduce police violence. if we can take the international nada is pointing to end the very local that i am pointing to, those together can be a path forward. steve: that is heartening. thank you for laying that out. after a couple decades aging myself in this, but lking at how people from different parts of the country, different corners of the nation, see things differently. gravity doesn't work the same everywhere. i want to show a couple graphs, nada, and get your response to it. because at some point, we need to come to some common understandings so that people see the tensions, the horrors that are out there.

this first chart shows how many americans say police treat racial groups equally. if you talk to the black community, 9% believe they are treated equally. 42% of whites. that is a big gap in perception. if you look at political party, how many americans say police treat racial groups equally? democrats, 10%. republicans, 64%. we have a racial divide and we clearly have party abides in this country in terms of the perception of these issues. nada, i know your report had to deal with a cross-section of players, but you had difficulty ridging to republican participation. i would be interested in what you think it is going to take, is it going to be combat to get folks to pay attention? or do you think there are ways to bring over some republicans and more members of the white

community tonderstand the anguish and injustice your commission has highlighted? nada: the commission's work wasn't necessarily on u.s. party lines, it was really looking at exposing this information and giving people the opportunity to see and to hear what is really happening. and i will say this. we had these earrings open to the public so that people could join, just like a regular zoom that has a chat on the side, people asking questions. and it was clear that it was eye-opening. i have been following these cases. some of these cases, you all have been following. there were things talked about from family members and attorneys that made whatever we think is a horror even more clear in its depravity and horriblness. i heard things i haven't heard before. that is part of it part of it is for people to goodly be able to

hear from, see what is happening, as opposed to living in their bubble. if you are living in your bubble edger bubble does not include black people, your bible does not include police violence, then of course you are going to have those attitudes. if you go to internationalcommission.org, you can hear the hearings right now. the report will be there soon. it is important for people to hear from botham jean's mother, not snippets from the press conference, but actually hear her talking for 30 minutes about what the murder of her son was, what it did to her, her family, what it did to the country of st. lucie a and how it reflected upon them -- st. lucia, and how it affected -- how it reflected upon them. i think it is important to hear from the sister of kayla moore to understand think trans and

taupo police violence impact vulnerable communities. so that is the work the commission began lead along with the international association of democratic lawyers last july, with 12 commissioners around the world, and for brilliant wrapper tutors -- and four brilliant rappaorteurs, so that we can finally address this issue honestly and with some kind of big or. -- some kind of vigor. steve: i am fighting myself to bring attention to things. i found when i was reading james foreman and his student's piece this weekend about traffic tax, and we had daunte wright, and we also had lieutenant nazario who

was stopped. and it takes you to this place where, if we didn't have video -- and i have asked feelings about video and surveillance, spent time in china and could see what a surveillance society looks like, but i am wondering whether body cameras, video surveillance, we would not know about lieutenant nunazario, we wouldn't have -- we would know a lot of these cases if it wasn't for iphones. is this a move to keep police accountable, and is video going to deliver us, james? james: i don't think so. video can play a role, as you said. and we can point to examples that because of video, we now know about them. five years ago, there was a lot

of optimism or too much across the political spectrum that body-worn cameras on police officers would have basic effect and impact on police use of force. and the research is out, and it doesn't. steve: 30 seconds left, and i know this is unfair, but in your report, you write about violations of the fourth amendment of the u.s. constitution. i like to have discussions wedged income a constitutional rights. can you give us a quick snapshot of what rights are regularly violated of black americans? nada: the right not to be the pride of your liberty, not being handcuffed, not being detained, the right to not be abused, to not be beaten, to not be subjected to excessive force. the right to not be murdered,

the right to not be killed, to not have police as judge, jury and executioner. it is important that we recognize, as the commissioners did, that u.s. rights are being violate it, as well as international rights. it doesn't have to be something that is just an international court, it can start here in the united dates as well. steve: i will read it -- the right of people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated and warrant shall be issued without probable cause, supporting affirmation on the person or persons to be searched and the things to be seized. two our guests -- to our guests, thanks for being with us and sharing your candid thoughts. >> thank you. steve: so what is the bottom line?

for society to function, folks need to trust the holy spirit but for a black man or woman -- remember sandra bland -- a traffic stop can lead to a life or death situation. it has to be called out and changed. it is about time americans at an honest debate about the intersection of racism and policing in this country. everything should be on the table, including rewriting history, limiting the use of police to enforce traffic laws, less military style and military-outfitted policing, changing laws, whatever it takes to save lives and create space to hopefully start rebuilding trust across races in our society. without trust, america is going to boil and twist itself into knots and never move beyond what many call america's original sin. and that is "the bottom line." ♪

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