04/27/21 04/27/21 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is mocracy now! >> it is like we are against all odds in this world. i just got executed just trying to save his own life. the officers were not in no harm of him at all. amy: andrew brown was executed. that is the message from his family members who have been shown a 20 second snippet of

police body can footage showing brown was shot in the head while his hands were on the steering wheel in elizabeth city, north carolina. seven sheriffs deputies have been placed on leave, three others have resigned or retired. we will speak with the reverend william barber. >> it happened to a man. it happened to a father of seven. it happened to a cousin, nephew. he is not a caricature. he is a man. a young 42-year-old black man. say his name. >> andrew brown. amy: then we go to philadelphia to look at a shocking report about how two ivy league schools -- the university of pennsylvania and princeton -- have been using the bones of a child killed in 1985 when the philadelphia police bombed the home of the radical black group move, killing 11 people --

including five children. >> not only did they kill my children, my sisters and brothers, but they've desecrated the remains. amy: we will speak to move member mike africa, jr. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the quarantine report. i'm amy goodman. hundreds of demonstrators took to the streets of elizabeth city, north carolina, monday for a fifth day to protest last week's police killing of andrew brown, jr., a 42-year-old black father. on monday, authorities allowed brown's family and attorney to watch a 20-second video clip of the shooting. the family says it shows andrew brown was shot in the back of the head while his hands were on the steering wheel of a car. this is brown family attorney chantel cherry-lassiter. >> andrew had his hands on the

steering wheel. he was not reaching for anything, touching anything. he had his hands firmly on the steering wheel. inthey went up to his vehicle shooting. he still sat there in his vehicle with his hands on the steering wheel while being shot at. keep in mind, this is 20 seconds. i have three pages of notes for 20 seconds. we have watched this over and over to make sure we were clear at what was going on and what was transpiring. amy: after headlines, we'll go to north carolina to speak with reverend william barber. the justice department has launched a probe into the louisville, kentucky, metropolitan police department over whether officers have a pattern or practice of using unreasonable force, including against peaceful protesters. attorney general merrick garland announced the civil investigation monday. >> it will determine whether

lmpd engages in unconstitutional stops, searches, and seizures, as well as whether the department unlawfully executes search warrants on private homes. amy: the probe will also investigate the louisville/jefferson county metropolitan government. it comes 13 months after plainclothes officers serving a nonock warrant busted through the door of breonna taylor's home in the middle of the night and shot her dead. she was a black, 26-year-old emergency medical technician and aspiring nurse. former officer brett hankison was indicted on charges of wanton endangerment for shooting into the apartment of a neighbor, but no one has been criminally charged over breonna taylor's killing. the covid-19 pandemic has reached a new record high, with the number of daily global infections averaging more than 820,000, led by a massive outbreak in india. the who says the pandemic is still in its acute phase, with a

ninth straight week of rising infections. almost 5.7 million cases were reported last week alone, which the world health organization says is certain to be an underestimate. this is the who's director general tedros adhanom ghebreyesus. >> many countries are still experiencing intense transmission and the situation in india is beyond heartbreaking. amy: on monday, president biden spoke by phone with indian prime minister narendra modi, promising to send aid, including vaccination supplies, therapeutic drugs, and desperately-needed oxygen. this comes after india's government ordered twitter, facebook, and instagram to censor about 100 social media posts criticizing prime minister modi's disastrous handling of the pandemic. the biden administration said monday it would share up to 60 million doses of u.s.-manufactured astrazeneca vaccine with other nations. that's enough for 30 million people, about 0.4% of the world's population. the astrazeneca vaccine is not

approved for use in the u.s. president biden is signing an executive order today establishing a $15-an-hour minimum wage for federal contractors. biden will also eliminate a lower tipped minimum wage for certain federal contractors who receive tips. meanwhile, the white house is preparing to propose an increase in the capital gains tax to help pay for his upcoming american families plan. the proposal calls for increased federal spending on childcare, pre-k, paid family leave, and tuition-free community college. brian deese, director of the national economic council, said the capital gains tax increase will target only the very wealthiest americans. >> this change will only apply to three tens of a percent of taxpayers, which is not the top 1%, not even the top one half of 1%. we are talking about .3% about 500,000 households in the

country we are talking about. amy: on wednesday, biden will speak in a ceremony that was delayed from february two to the coronavirus pandemic. the supreme court said monday it will hear a case on whether new york's restrictions on concealed-carry firearms licenses violate the second amendment. the national rifle association backed the challenge. justices will hear oral arguments this fall, with a decision expected sometime next year. the supreme court has also agreed to hear a case brought by a guantánamo bay prisoner who was tortured in u.s. custody. abu zubaydah and his lawyer want to subpoena former cia contractors james mitchell and bruce jessen about their role in developing torture tactics employed at a secret cia black site in poland where zubaydah was imprisoned. the u.s. census bureau has released the results of the 2020 census showing the u.s. population grew at its slowest pace since the the results will 1930's. re-shape political power in the

house of representatives, where texas will gain two seats. meanwhile, north carolina, florida, colorado, oregon, and montana will each gain one congressional seat. shrink by one member after -- new york's congressional delegation will shrink by one member after coming up short by a mere 89 people. also losing a house seat are pennsylvania, west virginia, ohio, michigan, illinois, and california. florida voting rights advocates are sounding the alarm over new legislation that would make it harder to vote by mail, among other restrictions critics are condemning as jim crow 2.0. the bill was approved by fl@@ida's state senate monday, and it would also limit ballot drop boxes, impose more identification requirements for absentee ballots, and criminalize giving food and water to voters waiting in line. the legislation is similar to a recent sweeping voter suppression law enacted in georgia. in arizona, republican officials are continuing to challenge the result of the presidential

election and have hired florida-based company cyber ninjas to assist in the audit of millions of ballots in maricopa county, arizona's most populous county. cyber ninja is run by a man who has widely shared conspiracy theories that claim the 2020 election was illegitimate. the audit was approved by the arizona state senate, which used its subpoena power to take possession of 2.1 million ballots, ballot-counting machines, and computer hard drives. former president trump praised arizona republicans in a statement and said -- "i predict the results will be startling!" arizona's democratic secretary of state called the efforts a farce as election officials warn the mughal severely -- the move will severely damage people's faith in the democratic process. california democratic governor gavin newsom could face a special recall election after a republican-led effort gained enough signatures to qualify for the ballot. if the recall petition is certified, voters will decide the end of the year whether to remove newsom from office. newsom's advisers predicted he

would beat back the recall, calling it the work of pro-trump, anti-mask and anti-vaccine extremists. oklahoma's republican governor kevin stitt has signed several bills that would make abortions almost completely inaccessible state-wide. one bill would revoke the medical license of any oklahoma doctor who performs an abortion, except in very rare circumstances. another bill bans abortions around six weeks of pregnancy, and a third requires doctors who perform abortions be board-certified in obstetrics and gynecology. the legislation will face immediate legal challenges. israel's security cabinet monday approved a major military escalation in the gaza strip if palestinian fighrs don't stop firing rockets into sohern israel. israel also moved to cpletely cut off palestinians' access to a fishing zone off the coast of the gaza strip. this comes as human rights watch said for the first time that israel is committing the crimes of apartheid and persecution. in a report and accompanying video released today, human rights watch said israeli

authorities have dispossessed, confined, forcibly separated, and subjugated palestinians by virtue of their identity. >> is really authorities maintain a two-tier system which privileges jewish israelis over paleinians. it amounts to the systematic oppression needed to establish e crime of apartheid. the really ahoritiesave coitted a range of uses against paltinians. the oupied territy, those abuses include mass land confiscati, the nial of residencrigh, and suspsion ofivil rights and rightto the resholdsf inhumacts and sere abuseof the fundamenl rights of palestinns. am the u.sgovernme has agreed ttrain guemalan rder offials as rt of the biden administration's efforts to further militarize central american borders and make it more difficult for asylum seekers to reach the u.s.-mexico border.

useful reportedly send over a dozen homeless he could guatemala. this isn't the first time u.s. authorities have been deployed to guatemala to train local law enforcement. the offer came during a virtual meeting between vice president kamala harris and guatemalan president alejandro giammattei. vice pres. harris: and we want to work with you to address the acute causes as well as the root causes in a way that will bring hope to the people of guatemala that there will be an opportunity for them if they stay at home. amy: central american and immigrant justice advocates have widely condemned more u.s. intervention in the region, saying u.s. foreign policies have exacerbated poverty, violence, and other root causes of why people have to flee in the first place. in tijuana, mexico, asylum seekers led a protest over the weekend demanding they be allowed to enter the united states to seek refuge. dozens of people peacefully marched to the san ysidro port of entry, while u.s. authorities responded by shutting down the border for hours and unleashing

police in riot gear. hundreds of asylum seekers have been stuck in tijuana, living in a makeshift camp since february. this is an asylum seeker from honduras addressing president biden. >> we want them to answer us, to listen to us for five minutes, have compassion. there are children here. and joe biden was also a child. let them see that we suffer. he has not suffered, but we have. we were not born rich. we were born in poverty. we are poor, hard-working, and honest. we want them to listen to us and open the door for us. amy: in texas, a 42-year-old author and activist is injuring her 21st day on hunger strike today, demanding the biden administration stop the dredging of the matagorda ship channel and the construction of a new crude oil export terminal proposed by oil company max midstream.

wilson says she fears this could unearth mercury contamination, devastating fisheries and local communities. this weekend over a dozen activists in kayaks joined wilson for a protest against the proposed oil project. wilson is a fourth-generation fisherwoman from the texas gulf coast. in 2019, wilson won a $50 million lawsuit against formosa plastics -- the largest such settlement in u.s. history. nearly half the funds have been used to establish a sustainable fishery and to help revitalize fisheries in the region. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the quarantine report. when we come back, we will talk to the reverend william barber about last week's police killing of andrew brown in north carolina. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the quarantine

report. i'm amy goodman in new york, joined by my co-host juan gonzález in new brunswick, new jersey. , juan. juan: hi, amy. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. amy: hundreds of demonstrators have taken to the streets of elizabeth city, north carolina, for a fifth day to protest last week's police killing of andrew brown, a 42-year-old black father. on monday, authorities allowed brown's family and attorneys to watch a 20-second video clip of the shooting. the family says it shows andrew brown was shot in the back of the head while his hands were on the steering wheel of his car. his son khalil ferebee described the shooting as an execution. >> it is like we are against all odds in this world. my dad got executed just by trying to save his own life. he was not -- the officers was

not in no harm of him at all. it is messed up how this happened. for real. for real. he got executed. it ain't right at all. amy: chantel cherry-lassister, an attorney for andrew brown's family, described what she saw in the 20 second video. >> andrew brown was in his driveway. the sheriff's truck blocked him in his driveway so he could not exit his driveway. andrew had his hands on his steering wheel. he was not reaching for anything, touching anything, throwing anything around. he had his hands firmly on the steering will. they bring up to his vehicle shooting. -- they ran up to his vehicle shooting. he still sat in his vehicle with his hands on the steering wheel while being shot at.

keep in mind, this is 20 seconds. i have three pages of notes for 20 seconds. we watched this over and over to make sure we were clear at what was being -- what was going on and transpiring. amy: attorney ben crump, who is also representing andrew brown's family, called on authorities to publicly release all body cam footage. >> we want to say on the record from the onset, we do not feel that we got transparency. we only saw a snippet of the video would we know that the video started before and after what they show the family. and they determined what was pertinent. why couldn't the family see all of the video? the only show one body cam video, even though we know there were several body cam videos --

if they were following the law and the policy and that everybody has video cameras on their uniforms. amy: andrew brown was shot dead while the county sheriff's april 21 office was attempting to serve him an arrest warrant on drug charges. officials in elizabeth city have already declared a state of emergency ahead of the public release of the body cam footage warning it could result in a period of civil unrest. at least eight officers were at the scene of the shooting. seven sheriff's deputies have already been placed on paid administrative leave. two other deputies have also resigned and another retired over the past week. this is attorney bakari sellers, who is also representing the brown family. >> only in this country can you have the trial of derek chauvin be interrupted by the death of

daunte wright, the interrupted by the death of adam toledo, be interrupted by the death of ma'khia bryant, and now we find ourselves here in elizabeth city. amy: the reverend william barber was also there. on saturday, reverend barber of the poor people's campaign travel to elizabeth city to meet with the family of andrew brown. >> it happened to a man. it happened to a father of seven. it happened to a cousin, nephew. he is not a caricature. he is a man. a young 42-year-old black man. say his name. >> andrew brown. amy: the reverend william barber joins us now, cochair of the poor people's campaign and president of repairers of the

breach. welcome back to democracy now! let's begin with yesterday. what a scene unfolded as the family had been promised at 11:30 in the morning they would be shown unedited video of what happened to andrew brown. it went on. they waited for hour after hour. then they go inside and they are shown a 20-second snippet. can you explain what took place? you were there outside. what they saw and what you're demanding? >> thank you so much, amy. we have three powerful attorneys that are representing the family . harry daniels representing one of the mothers and five siblings. there are five minor children and two grown children. he is also representing one of the aunt.

s. then you have ben crump. they are combined working together. lily set a context. that is the sheriff and the da -- we need to start saying the da because the county lawyer is not the da. the sheriff and the da could have gotten all of this done within an hour or so. the law simply says a judge has to do it and all you would need is the sheriff and the da or the da alone could have gone to the sheriff's had this needs to be released. we are in the context of when something happens like this -- columbus, ohio, was released almost immediately. theli same thing in north carolina, this would have been one extra step. when we went there, this young man, 42 years old -- by the way, no gun was found, no drugs were found.

this boy has no history of any kind of violence or violence on his record. they had been promised we would see the tape. i was there. they did not even let some of the family in. they literallylosed the or. 120 hours since this murder. i want to mention to you the second one on the east coast during the chauvin trial, there's another one in virginia beach donovan lynch who was also shot. they cut the cameras off. now we have andrew brown. they waited 120 hours to get 20 seconds. that is absolutely ridiculous. we also learned on saturday, because one of the local reporters asked in the press conference, what do we think about using a swot-like team to

go get this one person that they allegedly had a warrant for? let warrant is not a license to kill. it does not mean you get executed on the spot. it does not mean you are guilty. the supreme court said if you flee, it is not illegal -- deputies do not have a right to shoot you in the back. amy: the back of the head. >> that's right. and we don't know how many shots. there will be an autopsy released. 20 seconds after 120 hours. that is absolutely unacceptable. they were promised they would be able to see it. one last thing. they said they needed to reject -- these are the people suppose to be doing the best occasion. in national security matters, reject. -- you react. they have not shown the tips.

the panel he was not evensking -- they were saying, can we and our lawyer see this? they said, we have to redact the tape. this is problematic. the last thing you should know is the da could have asked the state attorney general -- they bungled it and fumbled it. he could easily say, i want the state attorney general -- in north carolina, the state attorney general can't just take it over. the loss says the local da must ask. today we are meeting with pastors, repairs of the breach, naacp, meeting with some of the lawyers and afterwards we will declare a moral emergency and a justice of emergency. there is no real emergency to the cy. there is no violence. it is often peaceful and everything. the real emergency here is a

moral emergency. juan: you mentioned the autopsy results will be available soon. at this issue of the numbe of shots fired, the police no -- they knew that immediately. they could have at least said this number of shells were spent by all of the officers on the scene. it seems to me, especially given the fact we are hearing that two officers have already resigned and when retired at th clearly is a signal. when some police are leaving and be diddly before any investigation is through, that this is a horrendous shooting. your thoughts about this whole issue of not even giving information on the number of bullets fired, and also, is there a role for the governor here? to step in and some way or other on this case? >> the governor has already said the tapes should be released and so has the state attorney general. north carolina does not make its

bodycam automatic public record. that is sitting in the public at sibley right helpless of the republican legislature has it blocked and some of the police associations have fought against it. but it could be passed in 20 seconds right now if they wanted to do that. but you are right, in terms of things that could have been done immediately, we could have known exactly how many officers went and why that many officers went. we could know what kind of team weight, was this just sheriff's or a swat team? we could know what kind of weapons were used. we should be able to know exactly how many shots were fired. all of those things could have been done most immediately or at least within the first day. none of that has taken place. this is one of the reasons why we have to challenge this issue.

i was okg at a report from news one last year i believe and it showed how there were at least eight white killers, some were mass murderers, like one who was arrested and some y he went and got a hamburger. all of these murderers work white. they resisted arrest. none of them ended up dead. too often we hear about black men being shot in the back or black women being shot in the head by these police. what we say -- and it does not matter even if some ofea the cops were black. the fact of the matter is, a gun and a badge can extract your loved one from their home is too much power for trigger-happy officer that can literally kill people by name because they get

their power from the state. that is also why we need federal law. what we really need is when and if police murder or execute someone, we need accountability, we need a, we need prosecution without immunity, we need appropriate prison time. some of us are beginning to say we need payment. it doesn't always come from insurance companies paid by the tax payers, needs to come out of these pensions of these police departments and then we need to have pattern and practices investigations. there's a long history. i was raised here in this area. i am just a few miles from where i live. elizabeth city, the black belt of north carolina, were slave patrols used to chase down black

people because this is where most of the slavery was in north carolina. i remember in the 1970's, my father was fighting against police in the east of north carolina and a sheriff who almost made it a habit to shoot somebody ever so often. there is a lot of undercover things going on here. this is the same east of north carolina where in the last few years, we have three afcan-american men who were put in jail for murder only to be found they were not guilty and released after 20, 22 years in jail and even a young man east of north carolina that was put in jail and was threatened with life imprisonment only to find out he did not do the killing. this is east of north carolina. this is the south. that is why we must pay a lot of attention to this and understand what is going on here.

because this case is about andrew brown, about the south, and it could break open some things in the south. the most restrictive laws and it comes to policing, some of the most egregious things that have happened have happened in these southern, small, rural counties. juan: i'm wondering, in the wake of the guilty verdict for derek chauvin and after now nearly a year of massive protests all around the country in terms of black lives matter, your sense of these killings continue to happen as if these police departments are not listening to the massive outcry not only in the african-american community, but among people of color and people of goodwill everywhere -- your thoughts about what is happening right now in terms of law enforcement in the country? >> it makes everybody unsafe.

mixed lack, white, native, asian, gay, straight, young, old. that is one thing people understand, a systemic problem within policing makes us all unsafe. when you don't have any transparency and trust, we are all in tremendous danger. it is a violation not only of humidity, but a violation of constitutional rights and it is very dangerous. i'm a nonviolent person. i practice nonviolence. the only person i know that can come to my door with a piece of paper and take my wife, my children out or someone i love and just take them -- and i don't resist or say no, you can't have them, is an officer of the law. that is the only person i will say to my loved ones, "i will

see you downtown." that is too much power. that is why we have to have these federal laws. we can't have one standard in one county with one d.a. and one sheriff and another standard in another county and another standard in another county. i will tell you what people are saying. even my sensei, dad, it always looks like -- feels like chauvin gets arrested and gets prosecuted and there is an increase like, we going to get them now. people feel like that. what is going on? the more these officers get exposed, it seems like they're getting more reckless. and make a reverend barbara, just making that point, you have chauvin verdict comes down last tuesday. on wednesday, two men are shot.

for people who are confused, of anthony brown in north carolina shot dead by sheriff's deputies. on the same day in virginia, a black man was hospitalized after he was shot by sheriff's deputy who responded to a 911 call less than an hour earlier, the same sheriff's deputy drove that same man, isaiah brown, home after brown's car broke down. isaiah brown was unarmed and was holding a cordless phone in his hand when the officer fired seven shots at him. brown's family said he was on the line with 911 when he was shot. can you comment on this? finally, this demand for the george floyd police accountability act? >> you are exactly right. shot seven times. i want folks to hear the multitude of bullets.

shot seven times and said we don't know how many shots -- they said the car was riddled with bullets for andrew brown. in the midst of the chauvin trial, of donovan lynch w was shot in virginia beach and killed. that case -- then we have had teenagers that were killed. all of this during and after the trial. this is the pandemic of injustice, police brutality and violence. and must be held accountable. a police person must be held accountable for murder. walter scott shot in the back, it took federal prosecution to get that particular officer, michael slager i believe, to even prosecute him. let us not forget what it took to get chauvin. it took millions of people

marching, a nine minute video by a young girl, it took the attorney general, it took calling a prosecutor out of retirement, it took police turning on themselves. people who thought the chauvin trial represented a fundamental shift are mistaken. that is one case. that has not dealt with systematic issues that we are facing. we must have this bill. many of us are looking at it to see if it needs to be even stronger. i will tell you, what a lot of these people count on is immunity but also they know if they kill someone and they are tried in the state and they get acquitted in the state, they cannot be tried again. oftentimes the klan did things because they knew they were going to be found guilty at the local level and does were not what you become guilty at the local level. we must make sure these federal laws are of such that it is automatic there is going to be prosecution and there will be a

penalty that meets -- what the penalty of murder ought to be. and it will be arrest. we're going to have to have laws that say there will be independent prosecution, not prosecutors tied in with the police department's and those things. that is what has to happen. i like what garland is doing, the new attorney general. it will have to happen not only in louisville and minneapolis, minnesota, but it will have to happen in places like elizabeth city and in the south. this is serious business. it is systemic. i don't care if lindsey graham says racism is not systemic. it is systemic. it is certainly systemic when it comes to police violence against people of color. amy: we want to thank you, reverend dr. william barber, cochair of the poor people's campaign and president of repairers of the breach.

longtime north carolina reverend as he continues to deal with what is happening in elizabeth city, in virginia, in columbus, ohio. i said anthony brown, i met andrew brown, the man who was killed in north carolina. ma'khia bryant the 16-year-old was killed in columbus, ohio, the teenager who was 16 years old, when you're younger and the video -- and the young woman who filmed the murder of george floyd. ma'khia bryant was killed by police on the day the chauvin verdict came down and the next day, andrew brown was killed. isaiah brownas shot by police. >> don't forget donovan lynch. we need to know about that case. in this fight, we can't just be bothered when white cops kill a

black person. even if it is a black person who shoots an unarmed black person. in the donovan lynch case, it was a black-and-white officer. it does not matter. police don't care what your color is. i don't care if you shoot someone white, black, brown, it is murder. they must be prosecuted. call donovan lynch. call ma'khia bryant. call adam toledo in chicago. this is too much. we must fight this. we have to have laws. 20 seconds after 120 hours. 120 hours and the only got 20 seconds. amy: reverend william barber, thank you so much for being with us and be safe. next up, we go to philadelphia, pennsylvania, to look at a shocking report about how two ivy league schools come university pennsylvania and

princeton, have been using the bones of a child killed in the 1985 move bombing when the city bombed the house of the radical black group move, killing 11 people, including five kids. how is it possible these bones have been used for decades? we will get response from mike africa, jr. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: attribute to political prisoners around the world. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the quarantine report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. if you would like to get our

daily email digest, send the word democracynow -- one word, no space -- to 66866 today. text it to 66866. we turn now to explosive velationthat theniversit of pennsvania and princeton university have been in possession of bones thought to belong to children who were killed in the 1985 police bombing of the philadelphia home of the radical, black liberation, anti-police-brutality group move. in a minute, we will show you video of the remains being used in an online teaching course and get response from mike africa, jr. but first, we go back to that day on may 13, 1985, when the philadelphia police killed six adults and five children and destroyed over 60 homes, burning an entire block to the ground. they bombed the move house. in a 2010 interview on democracy

now!, ramona africa -- the sole adult survivor of the 1985 attack -- described what happened after the bomb was dropped on their house. in terms of the bombing, after bein attacked the way we were with houses by the fire department and hence have tear gas and then being shot at, the police admit to shooting over 10,000 rounds of bullets at us in the first 90 minutes, there was a lull. it without any warning at all, two members of the philadelphia police department's bomb squad got in a pennsylvania state police helicopter and flew over our home and dropped a satchel containing c4, a powerful military explosive that

knowingness will police department -- they had to get it from the federal government, from the fbi. without any announcement or warning or anything, they dropped that bomb on the roof of our home. at that point, we did not know exactly what they had done. we heard a loud explosion. the house kind of shook. it never entered my mind they dropped a bomb on us. but the bomb did in fact ignite a fire. not long after that it got very, very hot in the house and the smoke was getting thicker. at first we thought it was tear gas. but as it became thicker, it became clear this was not tear gas but something else. then we could hear the trees outside of our house crackling and realized our home was on fire. we immediately tried to get our

children, our animals, and ourselves out of that blazing inferno. amy: ramona africa describing the police bombing of the move house in philadelphia in 1985. in november, the philadelphia city council formally apologized for the police bombing, which killed six adults and five children and destroyed the surrounding 60 homes. memories of the attack that killed 11 people resurfaced last week when the university of pennsylvania and princeton university acknowledged that for the past 36 years, anthropologists had been using the bones of at least one of the bombing victims -- 14-year-old tree africa. in a video course posted online called "real bones: adventures in forensic anthropology," penn

museum curator janet monge, a visiting princeton university professor, holds bones thought of tree africa. the video is no longer available for public viewing, but anyone who already registered for the course can still access it. democracy now! obtained a copy from the africa family. this is a clip. >> this is one of these cases where the material has some flesh on it, which is not uncommon, actually, in forensics , forensics anthropology. in this case, there is some soft tissue that is remaining. the bones were actually earned as well. it has quite a complicated history. i will pick up just for a moment and show you that this is the tissue present on this specimen. it is not a lot, but it is there. this is the tendon that goes -- it is intact. the femur with much less tissue

associated with that, but you still have the anchoring ligament present. the bones are, i mean, we would say juicy, meaning you can tell they are of a recently deceased visual. -- individual. they have a sheen to them, at least this one does. that is because there is still marrow in the cavity and it is leaching out into the bone. if you smell it, does not smell bad but it smells kind of greasy like in older style greece. amy: the penn museum and the -- since this video was reported on last week, the penn museum and the university of pennsylvania have apologized to the africa family for allowing

human remains recovered from the move house tbe used for research and teaching and for retaining the remains for far too long. the bones are reportedly now in the possession of alan mann, a professor emeritus at princeton, who apparently received them from the philadelphia medical examiner's office for forensic analysis in 1985. mann told the outlet inside higher education he is working to return "the upper end of a thigh bone and a small part of one pelvic bone" to the examiner's office and that he was "sorry to learn that there is a perception that what i did with the move human remains was wrong." the medical examiner's office has said that if the remains are returned to their office, they would attempt to locate next of kin to claim them. this controversy comes as the penn museum just apologized last week for holding more than 1000 stolen skulls of enslaved people in its morton collection.

samuel morton was a 19th century white supremacist researcher who directed workers to pull the bones from unmarked graves. for more, we go to philadelphia, where we're joined by mike africa, jr., a second-generation born move member and host of the podcast "on a move with mike africa jr." he is the co-author of the upcoming book "50 years on a move," out next month. welcome back to democracy now! we offer you our condolences on this news about the remains of two move children it is believed, not only tree africa, but alicia africa as well. can you explain how you found out about this and what you're demanding right now? >> thank you foraving me, amy. i found out about this because a friend called me and told me

that they heard about it. when they told me, i shortly after was coacted by a local reporter who was about to release a story about it. juan: can you hear me? amy: go ahead. juan: i wanted to ask you, you knew tree africa and alicia africa. you are friends with them. what do you remember about them? >> we spent years together in virginia. back in the day in the 1970's when the confrontational atmosphere in philadelphia was extreme for move, members of the organization, john africa said

the children to a place in virginia to get away from this confrontational atmosphere. tree and alisha and many other children were sent there. en i was born in -- after i was born, my grandmother took me to virginia, two, to be away from the crime and violence. we were there together for years. when the in virginia was raided and wwere taken from all of us were put in an abusive orphanage for 11 days with ourome being combed out of our scouts, some of us being pushed down the steps. very, very abusive. we were rescued from that situation and brought back to lindell via where we were reunited with other members of the organization -- we were brought back to where we were reunited with other members of the organization. we bounced around from house to

house. all of us were, i guess, unconventional work ends. we were altogether because all ofur parents were in prison. tr's mom was in prison. alicia, both of her parents were in prison. my paren were in priso too. alicia's ther is delbert africa, best known for the beating he took fromolice on august 1978 when they kicked him and lifted him up off the ground with blo to his body as he was on the ground trying to cover his defenseless body. tree and alicia, i knew them both tree w the oldest of the kids. she was very kind d very responsible and always been called upon to help with the other kids because she was the oldest. alicia was like our leader almost. a lot of things went through her as children. a lot of decisions, simple

decisions like how to sneak food that we were not supposed to be eating, came from her. she was very, very song and very clear-visioned. we had our own plans that we wanted to do and we got older and we would talk about these things together. to know this is happening now after all of these years, so close to what happened with another anniversary gone by where we think about our family's, it is devastating. juan: i wanted to ask you, i was a young reporter in philadelphia during the 198move bombing. i was there that day. most of the day spent with my good friend and fell colleague at of the philadelphia daily news" lend washington as we were covering the event. we were established -- astonished as late in the afternoon we saw the helicopter that was described dissenting

over the house, suddenly dropping the bomb and what astonished as most was not the bomb in the fire but the fire trucks wermore than an hour could not turn any water on. they would let the house burned to force everyone out of the house. as they came out, we later learned police attempted to shoot them down as the people came out the burning house. i'm wondering your reaction to more than 30 years later and he apology by the philadelphia city council but yet no one has ever been held accountable or was ever indicted for what happened there that day? >> you know, the apology came from city councilwoman who put that apology in because i asked her to. i asked her to because there is

still a lot of unresolved issues here with our family and close members of our family, close supporters of our family who are still involved in these unjust situations. people like mumia abu-jamal. and now we found out that the penn and princeton he the remains of our family, you know, it makes you wonder wh else do they have? what else are they lying about? to have an apology is valuable because that is kind of like an admission and going to use that to flesh out more coming to prove more injustices. the system icontrolled by pressure. johnfrica wod say the system is controlled by pressure. if you do not keep the pressure on, they will do whatever they

want to . they're not going to return thousands of skulls they have. they're not going to stop killing people unless they are pressured. we have to find a way to apply the pressure. i don't think there apology is a bad thing. amy: mike, this so reminds me of henrietta lacks, the african-american woman whose cancer cells are the source of the first immortalized human cell line, one of the most important cell lines in medical research at the time that she was dying she never knew there were using her cancer cells. her family for years did not know this. now we see these bones of the children of the move bombing, as you said, you don't know what happened to the remains of the 11 people killed in the move house, but you also mentioned mumia abu-jamal in prison for

life in pennsylvania. we have just gotten word in the last days he has survived serious open-heart surgery. do you know about his condition that he has congestive heart failure and what are the causes of this? >> yeah, i mean, what is happening with his health situation is deaflnot ju because he is 67 years old. -- definitely not st because he is 67 years old. members of the madison carceral pennsylvania and around the country, there coming down with all kinds of illnesses because of the treatment and the way the system itself is set up to give the poor medical care and very, very low quality food. that is just another issue. that is why it is important to expose these justices so we can

use this exposure to get the people -- arm the people with information so people can use the information to pressure the system. we definitely want an investigation. as a collateral descendant of some of the people in the house may 13, john africa was my grand uncle, and i don't trust the penn museum. i don't trust. there is more to come from my poinof view from where i'm standing, i think there needto be or done, there needs to be accountability. the reaction, the people, penn's reaction to this is totally unprofessional making an apology through a statent through someone else. the whole thing is egregious.

people are suffering and have been suffering for over 36 years just because of the bombing. amy: you are calling for the bones back? >> the bones to the children -- amy: we have fiv