births at once is eight. ♪ this is al jazeera. u.s. president joe biden has backed a proposal that would temporarily lift intellectual property rights for covid-19 vaccines. it would allow more manufacturers to make the jabs and help millions of people get inoculated. we have more from watch to see -- watch to see -- washington dc reporter: there has been pushed back and the biden team has been discussing with representatives. on the other hand you have immense pressure coming from some of the members of president

biden's own biden within congress. several democratic representatives have gone on record saying this is not just a moral imperative but it is in america's national interest. in terms of eradicating the pandemic around the globe that is the only way in which americans can be safe. anchor: facebook's oversight board has upheld the ban on donald trump's account but says the decision must be reviewed in six months. the former u.s. president was suspended after the january attack on the capitol building. the board called the decision of a total disgrace. israel's president has as a political rival to form a new government. it is the latest bid to eliminate political deadlock after inconclusive elections. canada has become the first country in the world to approve pfizer's coronavirus vaccines for children above the age of 12.

the pharmaceutical giant says it trials show the job is safe for 12 to 15 years old and effective against covid-19. -- are holding and eighth day of government protest with the country. protesters in belize have clashed outside of the capital in bogota. anger against tax reforms has turned into a wider movement. the eu has concerns about heavy-handed security tactics. those are the headlines coming up. next, the bottom line. ♪ >> hi, i am steve clemons and i have questions. have relations between russia and the united states reached

real rock-bottom? can they improve or will things get worse? let's get to the bottom line. ♪ u.s. president joe biden openly says he believes his russian counterpart, president vladimir putin is a killer. the biden-putin relationship is less than a love fest but that does not mean they will not be working together. both sides are testing each other's redlines. ukraine is one of those contests but so too is cyberspace. after washington determined the russian government was find acute checking of agencies that started in 2019, the biden administration sanctioned dozens of organizations and individuals in russia and kicked out 10 russian diplomat. russia responded by telling the u.s. ambassador in moscow it was a good idea for him to take a vacation in america for a while. tit for tat knuckle rapping aside biden as invited president

putin to reset relations, but in the era of biden and the ongoing story of vladimir putin what kind of competition is normal for these 2 countries? we are talking with someone who has been one of the keenest observers of russian-u.s. relations for decades. an author on russian studies and an expert in foreign affairs. he has advised american presidents are relations with each other and is the president and ceo of center for national interests and publisher of the national interest. it is great to have you on the show today. let me ask you as we have moved into an inflection point politically at least in the united states and as both countries are trying to figure out how to manage their equities, interests, i know you have a realistic lens of how to get that right. what do you think is most important right now for joe biden to accomplish with

vladimir putin? >> i think the question that is most important is obviously to protect american geopolitical interests and do it in a way that will not risk nuclear war. that is fairly simple in principle. it is not easy to accomplish, because if you are paralyzed by a fear of war, it will allow russia the upper hand and they appear so eager to prevail in every instance. you can invite disaster. it is quite the challenge to find the right balance. anchor: one of the things you wrote recently is that the united states had to decide whether it wanted to be a hegemonic, democratic empire that prevented everyone else from having a say in the world or whether it had to recognize its constraints, live within

those and allow other nations to do that. where do you think the u.s. is going right now without calculation? >> historically, we are talking about the united states not just being number one but it being the leader of the free world, and the free world is supposed to dominate the rest of the world. this complication with russia is an ideological struggle. someone was talking about and ideological struggle and victory over the soviet union as the leader of socialism, but now we are talking about the united states being the leader of democracies and being bound to succeed. if you look not at the rhetoric but what is really happening,

you can see the united states and russia are quite suspicious of each other, that the united states and russia obviously have different interests and very different values, but at the same time most nations realized nuclear war is not a sensible option, and it is important to identify areas where we can cooperate, if for no other reason that we need to manage our differences. anchor: one of the things i have been trying to understand is how russians inside russia look at their leadership, looked at their choices, look at what is happening with ukraine, with alexei navalny, and i think it is fair to say domestic support for vladimir putin's actions in russia is rather high and a lot of us looking are very surprised by that.

i know you have been to russia recently. what is your sense of putin's popularity and choices? are they rooted in domestic support a russia? >> his popularity as declined. it has declined with living standards, russian difficulty in dealing with the pandemic, it has declined with very few foreign policy successes during recent years. it has declined in comparison with being very high, let us say in 2014 russians took over primera. -- crimea. his popularity was 82%. it is now 62%. you may ask how can we trust these opinion polls?

i am coordinating a poll, which belongs to a position. i think most russian opposition leaders take the reports very seriously, so putin is sufficiently at home not to be worried and his dealings with the united states. the more russia is pressured, the more russia is lectured, the greater putin's support is, because the majority of russians , even those uneasy with the quality of leadership, they are patriotic people and they do not like foreigners telling us what to do. anchor: let's look at a clip of president biden and early comments on dealing with russia. pres. biden: the united states is not looking to kick off a cycle of escalation with russia.

we want a stable, predictable relationship. if russia continues to interfere with our democracy i am prepared to take further actions and respond. anchor: do you think that message from president biden is one that is welcomed into moscow and the kremlin or is it one saint we are going to have a rocky relationship? how do you think they are hearing the president of the united states? >> a political talk show in moscow interviewed president putin's press secretary, deputy chief of the residential administration, and i asked what would be one thing he thinks the biden administration should know

about the russian position? what would allow russia to upset the summit with president biden, and there was still no response from putin and he thought for a second and said, president biden said he is interested in avoiding escalation and cooperating with russia where it is possible, but the problem is whenever the biden administration makes a statement like that, there is immediately but. we will force russia to pay a price if they do not follow american guidance, and from moscow's standpoint that is not a way to talk with russia. the problem is indeed being --

with russia domestically [indiscernible] and it helps him domestically. president biden, by being inflexible rhetorically is helping domestically. anchor: when you talk about respect and the posture america should take in dealing with a powerful russia, i am interested in this because it is not something often discussed. do you think if the u.s. were to become more self aware of some of that that you would find a more workable, pliable russian participation in trying to solve some of these problems, say in ukraine with crimea? >> being polite with russia is not a panacea. if you have strengths, in

particular the u.s. agenda is sufficiently ambitious. the united states will not be strong, strong economically, in terms of domestic unity, in terms of american reliance is -- alliances and military. if you are strong and self-confident you do not need to put your opponents down. you demonstrate your strengths, your force of conviction, but then you remember that they have their own dignity, and they made be bad people or we feel that they are wrong, that they are disagreeable, but at the same time if we do not have power to intimidate them, we need to negotiate with them. putting them down and insulting

their leaders is not a good thing to do. ronald reagan was tough as nails in dealing with the soviet union. i am not awarenk of a single instance where ronald reagan was attacking individual leaders. he wanted to have results rather than domestic grandstanding. anchor: what are russia's options strategically? does russia have an option of embedding itself work closely with china? i know it has troops and an alliance with syria. does it help give chiron -- iran a sideways move in dealing with the u.s.? what are the elements of the great chessboard out there that will give russia strategic depth and options that would help maneuver around the united ates? >> russian options in that

regard in terms of building strong alliances are not particularly good. i would refer again to my interview last week with president putin's press secretary. russia has good relations with a number of important countries, starting with china but russia has not seemed to realize u.s. expelling russian diplomats as assigned of solidarity with united states, not a single country is expelling american or european diplomats to support russia. russia and china could become allies if it's subjected to strong american pressure. instead of saying we are great

friends with china, and this cooperation is there getting stronger every day and could result in a formal military alliance. mr. peskov said the united states and russia have a very different concept of alliances. in russia's case, alliances are to help both countries, to contribute to prosperity. they are not preemptive against anybody else and we are not looking for formal security arrangements with any other country. you have to understand this is a very meaningful statement, not necessarily because i take it literally, but because it indicates moscow does not expect an alliance with china anytime soon. the chinese and russians have similar grievances against the united states.

but russia does not want to go to war or military confrontation with the united states because of china and in the same is true with the chinese. a former foreign minister recently shared his perspective on russia, and he complained they are playing their own game, and they would not want to promote a nuclear agreement. russia does not have strong alliances like the united states in building such alliances is not in the cards, but i do think if we in the united states are not careful, we could create temporary agreements between

china and russia, but there was no alliance between hitler and stalin. we have to be careful not to repeat the situation in the nuclear age. anchor: a lot of people frame russia as a moderate or small economy, and oil or gas superpower, but i know that russia as the ability to destroy the united states and has more deployed nuclear warheads than any other nation on earth, but another element of power out in the world exists and what nations can do in the cyber world, and we have had a lot of debate about what russia as done meddling in the elections. i am interested in your insights into this new arena, information , disinformation, which as you have written, russia as particular -- has particular expertise in.

does this give russia another dimension of power much of the world is underestimating? >> first, i would not underestimate russian economic power. it is not the same with the united states, not at all. having said that, if you look at the purchasing power, they are number six in the world, number 2 in europe just after germany. they may be a troubled country in major respects but they are still a major economic presence. if you look at the military budget, officials -- official figures suggest someone in the range of $70 billion. i do not think anyone takes it seriously. in terms of purchasing power this is a much more reasonable figure.

in the range of $140 million, one at a $50 million. this is a serious number particularly for a country where the manpower is much cheaper in the united states, where they do not spend money on pensions for the veterans. in terms of cyber, i am not an expert in that area. the official line of the kremlin is that they are doing very well , they are among world leaders in that area. russian scientists are immigrating and you can find them in the silicon valley and california weather then someplace close to moscow. i do not know how to compare them with the united states.

i assume they are considerably behind, but they do have capabilities which could be very meaningful in a serious military confrontation, but i do not think anyone wants to experiment in that area, particularly because you never know when cyber warfare could lead to actual warfare and military confrontation. anchor: do you think about the strategic class in washington nuclear weapons and the prevalence have become kind of banal? i am interested in how a little folks think about the nuclear possibilities in a negative encounter with pressure -- russia. >> i think you are absolutely right. it started in a big weight during the obama administration, when president obama did not leave that anybody in his right mind would think about using nuclear weapons in any kind of confrontation.

the russian military says very clearly that if mother pressure -- russia was in danger, they would consider using nuclear weapons. president putin said when russia is in danger or when russia may be destroyed, who once the world without russia? maybe the world should not even exist. he is obviously saying this sarcastically but i think there is an element of truth in terms of reflecting on that approach. i also have to say putin has a somewhat important background in terms of avoiding nuclear war. he was, of course, born after the war, but is parents were in

leningrad where about one million people died. so major war, this is kind of a reality which -- his approach to warfare with united states. people a little younger with any real experience in world war ii, they are suggesting military retaliation. putin is an autocrat. a russian nationist, but he is a pragmatic former intelligence officer, not like a cavalry general who wants to move forward no matter what.

a much more assertive, less cautious approach to military situations with united states. anchor: let me ask you finally, president biden has made an offer to president putin to meet him sometime this summer for a one on one personal summit. i have read in the russian press that they do not want a repeat of helsinki in 2018, a do-nothing summit that ends up looking like a clown show. they want something serious. if you were to identify the most important elements of an agenda that these 2 leaders would find work there equities at home, what would those be? what would you put on the table to advise president biden to say here is a way to make this more serious in terms of bringing vladimir putin into a consequential dialogue? >> climate change is one area

where russia and the united states have in common, as in nuclear proliferation, obviously the case of north korea. there is considerable agreement, and i would take crisis management, strategic stability where actually i think one of the best areas of cooperation between the united states and russia is the relationship between 2 militaries. they obviously disagree, they consider each other rivals but they know how to work together. beyond that, with one great dividing line, and this is ukraine. the united states, particularly hunter biden -- under biden --

the united states accepting that ukraine is a victim of aggression. russia is an aggressor and they basically adopted a ukrainian view that ukraine is the victim against further russian aggression. for russia, ukraine is an existential issue. they believed there was a coup d'etat back in 2014. they believe it happened with considerable assistance from the united states, and only after russia took over crimea and supported the separatists. it is difficult to have any agreement on ukraine if neither side is willing to compromise and the situation is not black-and-white. anchor: president and ceo for

the president of national self-interest, i appreciate your candid thoughts. thank you for joining us today. what is the bottom line? everything that the united states does not like about russia makes president put in popular. annexing crime, doing away with term limits and keeping putin in for life for the next 15 years, that is super popular in russia. trying to kill his credit, alexei navalny, half of russians say it is his own fault. opinion polls and russet state the folks there and see the united states as their number one enemy, so putin stays popular as whether he finds new ways to poke america, whether by hacking or social media campaigns. what incentive does he have to compromise with biden? america will have to figure out away way to live in cold piece -- peace with pressure, not warm

and friendly, and that is the bottom line. ♪

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