tv Inside Story LINKTV May 11, 2021 5:30am-6:01am PDT
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clicks temporary quick check of the top stories here and al jazeera. 20 palestinians have been killed after israeli airstrikes in gaza. israel struck targets across the city after hamas fired a barrage of long-range market -- long-range rockets at jerusalem. we're in ramallah in the occupied west bank. reporter: it's a cautious calm here now in occupied east
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jerusalem. there has been confrontations between the palestinians and the israeli police since the early hours of monday. as a result, according to the palestinian president, they had more than 600 injuries and 400 of those were transferred to hospitals. anchor: there has been widespread international condemnation of the fighting and calls for de-escalation between both sides. the u.s. and eu says the violence needs to stop immediately. a u.s. coast guard ship has fired warning shots as 13 boats belonging to the iranian revolutionary guards came close to a vessel. washington has accused tehran of unsafe behavior. all this comes as world powers and iran seek to speed up efforts to bring tehran and washington back to compliance to the 2015 new clear detail --
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deal. this cease-fire comes as a surge of violence across afghanistan. several people have been killed after a bus hit a landmine in kandahar province. the pfizer vied -- pfizer vaccine has been approved to be used on children as young as 12. most vaccines have only been authorized for use in adults. the european medicines agency says the jab could be approved for 12-year-olds as early as this month. infections in sri lanka's third wave have patent almost 2000 east day -- have peaked at almost 2000 patients each day. sri lanka is relying on the chinese vaccine. they stopped administering the vaccine on saturday after it was approved -- started administering the vaccine on saturday after it was approved by the dubya ho. thanks for watching, bye for now.
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♪ anchor: scotland's quest for independence given a boost by its parliamentary elections. the ruling party said it will make yet another bid to break from the u.k. but will it succeed this time? what would it mean for the future of the union? this is inside story. ♪ hello, welcome to the program. a parliamentary election victory
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has emboldened nicola sturgeon to push ahead with the referendum ending its union with the u.k.. her scottish national party has won elections for a fourth consecutive time and combined with pro-independence candidates, sturgeon has a majority in parliament. this means she is the numbers to any vote in scotland on independence. -- the u.k. says they still need a british -- british parliaments approval to hold about. if boris johnson opposes the move, it sets up potential legal battles. reporter: there might be change coming down the track from edinburgh to london. shaking the ties that have bound scotland to the u.k. since the 1700s. in the border regions, the scottish national party's electoral reach wanes. here a vote for scottish independence would have profound
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consequences. >> i think separation is the last thing people want in my experience of talking to people locally. any idea of a hard border is completely unworkable. i think scotland is so entwined as part of the u.k. that separation would just build some insurmountable problems. reporter: there are questions about currency and travel but more concerning is trade. england counts -- accounts for 60% of scottish exports. the possibility of border controls could do harm to the economy. there is disquiet on the english side of the border, too, where ruins are a testament to territory changing hands at least 13 times during the late middle ages. the walls here were built in the 14th century, a great defensive structure for this town on the front line of wars between
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scotland and england for hundreds of years. there will never be that sort of conflict again, but what may lie ahead for this border area for these two nations are new barriers, new defenses, a hard border, perhaps, with be -- with deeply uncertain consequences. in this fishing port, boats are tied up. post present rules -- limit seafood expectation rules. for zamir there is only one solution. -- for some here at there is only one solution. >> i think it's is long -- and winding road. we are still able to export products before brexit. now it is a nightmare. paperwork and so forth. if we got independence we could
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get back into europe. reporter: out of one union and back into another, recognition that perhaps an independent scotland cannot afford to be entirely alone. the breakup, if it happens, will be heartfelt in this border region. anchor: scotland's union with the u.k. has existed for more than 300 years and nationalists have long pressed for independence. this led to an overwhelming vote in favor for of -- in favor of a separate scottish parliament with devolved powers in 1997. the s&p first one in 2011, paving the way for a referendum three years later. 45% of scots voted in favor of leaving the u.k. while 55% voted against it. the sentiment for independence was field after britain's 2016
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brexit referendum. the majority of scottish people voted against leaving the io -- ea you -- eu. the government rejected sturgeon's demands to hold a referendum in 2017. let's bring in our guest in edinburgh. the professor of territorial politics at the university of edinburgh and a senior fellow at u.k. and changing europe. in glascow, a scottish green party politician and member of the scottish parliament. and in edinburgh, jim gallagher, a professor at university of glasgow and a performer -- and a former civil servant. welcome to the program. nicola, does the outcome set a collision course with the u.k. government? >> almost certainly yes. i do not think the scottish
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government under nicola sturgeon will be in a rush to press on with an independence referendum. there are many things to do first to prepare for that. the initial response of the u.k. government has suggested that there seems to be consensus that now is not the time to be having an independence referendum. the battle will come from -- will come in a couple of years probably when the scottish parliament, with its true independent majority, but wants to legislate to hold a referendum. it will be for the u.k. government to decide at that point fa wants to choose -- if they want to choose to potentially block it by ring into the court's or open the pat -- the path for others to block it. anchor: are we talking about a political battle or a legal battle for the need for a referendum to take place? >> that is a choice for the u.k.
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government. the electorate here has spoken. they have elected a majority of pro-independence snp representatives. the democratic mandate we have for a referendum -- today want to hold the u.k. together through consent or move to a position where they can only hold the union together through the force of law? if they take that option, if the way they kit -- if the way they believe they can stop us -- is through the courts. all it will is increase support for independence by completely vindicating the arguments those on the pro-independence side have made all along, that scotland can only get what it votes for once we are an independent nation. anchor: jim, how do you think the argument will prevail that the referendum is the will of the people, or will boris johnson describe it as reckless?
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>> neither of them will win outright. the interesting question here is what we do with the time when there will not be a referendum. everybody knows that there is going to be a referendum. but we have a chance during this. before to think about what the full range of choices the people scotland have or the range of possible relationships between scotland and the rest of the u.k. all away from independence to the status quo. there are many choices in between. and what each of them would actually mean. especially what independence would mean. because no one knows what it would mean. things like the currency. i think we will see that the u.k. government has more choices than just simple he say yes or no to nicola sturgeon. anchor: nicola, you said earlier that this is something that will take quite some time.
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what about those on the streets in scotland who think it is about time since the momentum is building up to hold a second referendum? don't you think that it might feel like the voting has been hijacked by the political establishment in london? >> i think we are still in the middle of a pandemic. it seems to me that the majority opinion is on the side that says, no, deal with this first, and then when it is the right time, if many people want a referendum -- for those who do, there's an acceptance that the pandemic has to come first. and maybe in two or three years, and of course, the further you get from an election the more he could become a contentious issue. nicola sturgeon did make that clear in the campaign, that it was covid first, then when the time was right, she would push for a referendum.
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anchor: ross, f the stalemate continues and the s&p decides to go for the vote, how will it work out? >> election that we just had returned a rigged -- a majority -- had returned a majority of pro-independence msps. there is a majority for both independence and for a referendum. they are two separate issues. you can and should be able to accept that there should be a referendum without supporting it. it is unfortunate our anti-on -- our anti-independence to colleagues do not accept that demographic. we will pass that legislation. parliament will say there should be a referendum. the people scotland should have the opportunity choose their own future. but that point, the u.k. government can either accept the democratic mandate that is being delivered by the people scotland
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and by their elected parliament and we can do this exactly the same ways we did in 2014 through negotiated agreement and what is called a section 30 order, or they can take into court. if they decide to go down that legal route, they have abandoned the principle of holding the u.k. together through consent and have decided that they can only hold it together through the force of law. if that is what they do, the union is definitely at its last days. anchor: since we are talking about the different interpretations of this, what you make of those that say that this was -- the first referendum was a once in a generational opportunity, which means the scots have to wait for 40 years before they move towards a second referendum? >> who knows what a generation is? it was the snp who said it was the once in a generation opportunity. i think the interesting thing about the 2014 referendum is
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that it did not settle matters. the independent side paused in campaigning and started again. they were given a bit more life by brexit. after when he 14 did not settle it, who is to say another referendum would? i thickly have to think of the full range of options in the full range of possibilities in the ways in which scottish people tend to liberate upon -- can deliberate upon and decide upon a future which will be stable for the rest of the u.k. i certainly do not think rushing to a referendum will do that. it will not happen, anyway. anchor: nicola, the union is happy saying that sturgeon has to focus on tackling covid, improving the public sector, particularly health and education.
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before moving to step two, talking about a second referendum. do you think this message will ref -- will resonate with those desperate for a significant change in the country? >> you're right in that that is what unionist politicians are saying, but that is what nicola sturgeon is saying too. i did not think she is under pressure to go early with this. as jim pointed out earlier, there is a lot of work to be done. to quantify what -- to qualify what independence would been in a post brexit world. for exit in my view has strengthened the case to revisit the issue scottish independence, because the relationship with the european union is fundamentally a part of that prospect. but it has also raised new challenges for what independence would mean, not least at the
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border between scotland and the rest of the u.k. in the event of independence. we saw in the campaign that the answers to those challenges are not there yet. for the snp government, i think they will be wanting to try to come up with some of the issues around the new anxieties that could emerge in this context. anchor: ross, had the brexit happened in 2014, things would have dramatically changed. do you think that brexit could be a moment for all the parties, particularly the pro-independence activists, to gather consensus among the scots and those skeptical about the notion of an independent scotland? that it is time to reach out to each other? >> we are absolutely capable of working together across the constitutional divide on how we
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rebuild after the pandemic. as nicola has went to doubt, we all agree on that. no one is saying there should be a referendum tomorrow or the next month or after that. our number one priority right now is to route -- is defeating and eradicating the pandemic and rebuilding from it. but we have won a majority. we won a mandate. to hold that referendum in this five-year term. the issues related to the pandemic, health and education, that the snp did not perform well on these before the pandemic -- those are areas where dividing lines in scottish politics are different. i am from a pro-independence party. the greens and the anti-independence labour party agree quite a bit on issues of education and have worked together to defeat the snp government on that. we will continue doing that. these are separate issues. for those of us, we have a vision of scotland rebuilding post for deming as being fundamentally what test
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fundamentally better than what we had pre-pandemic. the only way we can get the recovery we want is to have all the relative powers here. the greener country i want post pandemic just will not happen with boris johnson's u.k. government holding the major economic levers of power. anchor: jim, in a year, two years from now, if it boils down to going to a referendum against the backdrop of the limited legal powers of scottish parliament and the scotland act of 1998, are we likely to go to the supreme court to decide on this issue? >> i do not think that that would be helpful, but it seems clear that what they would side if they asked. i feel like what would be helpful is if the scottish government were prepared to publish their own legal view of this. and why doesn't the u.k. government publish its legal view as well?
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the scottish national party is quite interesting. they made a promise during the referendum to do something they do not have the legal power to do. what they're doing is using that as a lever over boris johnson to say, as we heard ross say, that he must for two the result of the scottish election. that does not forced johnson to do it. as prime minister of the u.k., he has responsibility to people -- to the people of scotland to find a way forward. because we cannot go on like this split down the middle. it third of the population are deeply committed to independence. a third are deeply against it. and a group in the middle are for the most part -- feeling about all these other things whether it is the pandemic or education. so if they find something they
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can unite on, scotland will be in a good position. anchor: nicola, aside from those legal considerations, the people scotland see that their choice, their voice, has been hijacked by the political elite in london. do you see a sense in their rationale that the call for a second referendum is a call for them to take their own destiny into the our own hands? >> i think that is a really interesting question. exit change things in terms of the referendum. you're right. 62% in scotland voted in favor of the u.k. remaining in the -- in the eu. that ultimately did not matter in the u.k. why decision. i think it is partly the frustration around the european union and also apparently tapping into what i think your
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question was getting at -- the idea of scotland's voice within the u.k. and there have been some developments since then and that in particular boris johnson's missed ration seems intent -- administration seems intent to compete with the devolved governments rather than work in partnership with them and potentially undermine the authority of the devolved institutions. if he goes down thatath and tries to bypass the devolved governments and work directly in communities, then i think he is potentially risking some of the value -- rather than embracing the value of the union, he is potentially -- i think, adding some new risks on the union side, as well. anchor: ross, do you think the support for the independence will continue in the upcoming years, waiting for this legal
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debate to be settled? >> absolutely. we have seen a clear trajectory that is stabilized recently. we're seeing a clear trajectory since 2014 or really since 2016 and the brexit vote. a gradual increase for support and independence that has increased quite dramatically during the pandemic. that will only increase further. the current u.k. governments vision for this country, for how to rebuild after the pandemic, is fundamentally different from the one most people in scotland voted for. that raises the issue of devolution itself. our scottish parliament, established after a referendum in the late 1990's, they are directly attacking our parliament and principles of devolution. they've given themselves a new right of veto over all decisions we make. they are reserving the right to spend money and take initiatives that our within -- that are
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within our responsibilities like transfer in education. if the people in scotland see a u.k. government willing to not just deliberately go around the parliament they have just elected but to directly undermine it, it simply grew -- simply proves again the case those in the pro-independence camp have always made. that u.k. governments will not act in the best interest of scotland. they will ask -- act in their best interests. there is nothing in the current u.k. governments behavior that makes me think they will change course from the aggressively anti-devolution course they have been on over the last couple of years. anchor: jim, by inviting the leaders of scotland to join him to the u.k. wide recovery summit, is boris johnson trying to in one way or another contain what he clearly sees essay growing -- clearly sees as a
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growing sentiment towards what could be uncharted territory for the u.k.? >> that's the first thing he has done what -- done right in quite some time. although ross has exaggerated, there is a fair point in what he says. if the u.k. government thanks -- and this is a competition between bit -- british business and scottish as is, it's just bound to lose in scotland. that's what nationalists think. scottish nationalists think it is a common vision between scottish niche and britishness. -- scottish nest and britishness. most people in scotland want a bit of both. the thing a u.k. government does , a sensible government, is try to build on that. try to find a space where people
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cooperate and see that both governments which work for scotland can work together in scotland's interests. i will give you a concrete example which worked well. that's the delivery of vaccines. u.k. production and research in sourcing combined with scottish delivery made the u.k. a world leader in getting covid vaccine into the arms of people who need it. that shows you cooperation can work. if you ask people in scotland about what they want with their governments, more than 70% of them say what they would want is more cooperation. we need a mechanism for that. not a constant standoff over the -- over who is wrong in the supreme court. anchor: i have less than a minute so this will be my question for both nicola and ross. do you think there will be a second referendum?
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briefly please. >> yes, i do. because i do not see how you get to a stable settlement without revisiting my question. anchor: ross? >> yes, there will be a second referendum because that is what the election in scotland just voted for and we are democracy, after all. anchor: thank you very much. and thank you for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website for further discussion. go to our facebook page. you can also join the conversation on twitter. from me in the entire team and doha. ♪
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♪♪♪ emma alberici: while italy's north is in the grips of a health emergency brought on by the coronavirus-- [dogs barking] emma: the south is confronting a crisis of its own, a ruthless new mafia. dr. giuseppe avitabile: this kind of nigerian mafia is peculiar in this place. emma: sex, drugs, and people smuggling. emma: are you still scared of them? joy ezekiel: no, why would i be scared of them? emma: the nigerians have arrived. has the italian mafia met its match? [speaking foreign language]
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