the u.s. has condemned an airstrike in ethiopia which reportedly killed dozens of people. health workers told the associated press soldiers blocked medical teams from reaching the scene. people in hong kong are flocking to newspaper stands to get apple daily. it has been under pressure since beijing's national security law came into force. the top executives have been arrested and assets frozen. reporter: very emotional morning

for supporters of apple daily and supporters of democracy. apple daily was a democratic newspaper. it was critical of the authorities not only here but in china. it would boldly make headlines where other papers were afraid to, because of censorship. apple daily never had those issues. it became one of the most popular papers in hong kong. >> libya's foreign minister says thousands of mercenaries could be out of the country within days. representatives have been meeting world leaders to establish security at of national elections. >> one and a half years ago, libya was threatened with collapse. we saw social tensions and divisions. today we are at a critical phase. we can speak with a unified

voice and say we will not return to war. the criminal investigation this taking place into whether someone obstructed a police probe in the amazon rainforest. brazil is reporting a record daily rise in covid-19 infections. the health ministry says more than 115,000 new cases were confirmed on wednesday, and almost 2400 deaths reported. still has registered more than 18 million cases, and around half a million people have died as the pandemic began. those are the headlines on al jazeera. inside stories coming up next.

host: catalan separatist leaders walk free from jail. spain's prime minister hopes the pardons will heal the wounds. if this decision backfire to cause more division? this is inside story. hello and welcome to the program. nine politicians and activists convicted for trying to break the region away from spain are spending the first moments of freedom. they were jailed for up to 13 years for holding an illegal referendum in 2017. spain's prime minister gave them a pardon on tuesday, he hopes

his gesture will foster a peaceful dialogue about catalonia's future. but the leaders say they will keep fighting for secession. the pardon is deeply controversial, opposition parties say they will challenge it in court. reporter: a tentative college ranch that olive branch loaded with consequences. the prime minister has been pushing hard to revive talks and hoping that a pardon can open the way for dialogue. >> the spanish government has taken this division because it is the best for catalonia, best for spain and corresponds with the spirit of coexistence in the spanish constitution. reporter: it is not without opposition. he finds himself in the middle of a storm. outside of catalonia, it is deeply unpopular. more than 60% of the country against the move.

and parties from the center to the hard right have capitalized on that discontent. for the process session is movement, the pardons do not go far enough. the leader said only an amnesty would be acceptable as he echoed calls to continue the fight for independence. >> it is time for an amnesty and the right to self-determination. it is time for a solution to achieve more internal consensus. reporter: the illegal independence referendum in 2017 triggered the biggest political crisis the country had seen in secessionist leaders were sentenced in 2019, including the vice premier. the spain supreme court has also rejected the pardons as it says those sentenced have shown no remorse. while the ruling is nonbinding, can be cited in future legal

challenges in the constitutional court, which could send the nine active prism. the difficulty is that while it is focal, it is still in the minority. being part of spain is still just about the preferred option there. the dive, is that he is leading a minority government. the parliament also needs to support catalan nationalist

host: i guess join me now. -- i guess join me now. and even policy analyst and editor of brussels were. let me start with you today, willy's pardons from your vantage point help heal the wounds between catalonia and the rest of spain, or could they backfire? >> good afternoon and thank you very much. in my opinion, this helps. any step helps. these leaders have been in jail and that is not only about them, it is about all of the people. we even had the president of the parliament in jail, and this has been very shocking for society. this has been reflected in the

last election, where people were voting towards independence. there are many other parties and opinions, but this is a first step. here in catalonia, many people want amnesty. . a pardon is individual. right now, not persons will be released, whereas if there is an amnesty law, that means the facts -- more than 3000 are prosecuted in court. at the end, what would be very useful, and amendment of the criminal court to clarify the initial crime and crimes that have to do with criminal expression. with this, we will --

host:host: let me ask you the same question. do these pardons help foster a moment where it can lead to a reconciliation between the central government and catalan nationalists? >> i would think so. the starting point is to carry on with dialogue. i think it is absolutely necessary to go ahead. it is a legal issue. i think the catalan society wants a way out of the situation. we all want to move on on the situation. a pardon is the first step, and we will have to proceed to find

a political solution. host: if we can just step back for a moment and look at the beginnings of this, the 2017 referendum, this created a huge political crisis. while this crisis may have ebbed , in no way has it completely been resolved. >> exactly. the madrid government has not been properly engaging. it is a good step towards reconciliation between barcelona and madrid. fundamentally, the independence people in catalonia have to understand a large part of society does not want independence, and i think madrid should except that in catalan

society, there is a legitimate desire for more self-government. it should be possible to find a middle ground. the obvious answer and model to look at is switzerland, a country where centralized entities have a lot of competences. if you look at spain, they have more tax powers at the moment then catalonia. at the moment that could be one way of trying to find each other, they catalonia and perhaps all of the regions in spain receive the tax power that the country has. host: polls have shown that a majority of spaniards were against granting these pardons. now we have seen separatist leaders who were pardoned walk out of jail. how is that news being greeted?

>> here in catalonia, what i saw, there is a large part of society who wants a referendum. there is a large agreement on this. of course there are people who want consultation to see what people want. seeing all of these politicians getting out of jail has been a relief, but feel there are more than 3000 persons that they are still prosecuting. that means things are not easy. the challenges are still here. we need a response from politics, not the judiciary, and not from the criminal court. many things that should be

fines or have a response, the criminal response should be the last one. calling it sedition for what happened here, for me and many institutions have said this was disproportionate. seeing all of these leaders get out of jail has been happy. the president of the parliament, she is the grandma, very popular and well-known. for many cattle lands, this has been painful to see such a referendum. of course as the professor has said, for many this was painful, to see a part of society wanted to be in defended of spain --

independent of spain. reconciliation, the talk. when the president went to barcelona said we love you. this is the first time we have seen this kind of solution. host: our political parties in spain opposed to granting of the pardon? no matter where they might fall on the political spectrum? are these parties beginning to capitalize over the anger that has been expressed? >> not at all. right-wing parties have been trying to mount a campaign against the catalonian institute . they did not get what they were expecting. as a matter of fact, they are

finding out that support from actors, the ones who are usually supporting this position. i think it has been a good strategy by the government to get the support and the government with the budget, but also [indiscernible] which is essential to go farther on reconciliation and political dialogue. i think the opposition is losing track and losing the argument.

they have no legal argument, they have no political argument. the process has been used since centuries ago. governments, right-wing or left-wing, have no legal, no political argument. they are not saying the truth when they say they are negotiating. as i said, the budget has been approved, so they don't need the government. i think they have to think about it and have a reflection. i should say the radical position. host: from your perch in brussels, i received is all of this look?

how much of an impact politically these pardons have on him going forward? >> is trying to find a middle ground. it between two sides, and that is why he has not come as far to declare amnesty, and also why he has waited in order to take this step. the right-wing opposition is not very keen to accept any concessions. that said, at some point there's going to be new elections in spain, and if they want to achieve something, he should not stop here by granting this freedom to these policymakers. he should officially engage and try to find a settlement with catalonia, and get a truce,

legally, before the next election. otherwise some people that are more hard-line may come to power, and it may become even harder to find a settlement. that said, i don't have the impression he is courageous enough to go there. we will state. host: where do things stand exactly in catalonia when it comes to the separatist movement? since 2017, has momentum for this movement edge? has it slowed? >> i think it is the same because i think the last elections did not go down. it was in the middle of covid, so participation was lower. they were saying, look, the movement is going up and up.

if you look at the last elections, it has not stopped. i think many people would like to see politics back. at least the government is trying. the ones that wanted unity, the ones in catalonia.

most of the people i think are in the middle. if we talk about the spanish judiciary. we talk about transitional justice, transition to democracy, there are some national steps that have to be taken. some of them were not taken in spain. where in a situation that has to do -- we need another transition. we need to talk about inclusivity. the suez model would maybe be a response. host: critics of the prime minister accuse him of abandoning his previous

positions on this. he stated publicly he was against giving out pardons to these separatist leaders and essentially he is only doing this now because he needs support. what do you say? is that a valid criticism? with the prime minister have done this if he did not need the support? >> i just mentioned this is not true. the main law that has been passed should be the budget, and it has been cut already. that is not true. saying that, i should say i think the socialist party has

always been for political dialogue we have to remind here that the most conflicted governments, relations have been between the catalan government, especially later on, when the popular party was in the government. i think this is a good thing. i do not quite agree with my previous colleague.

i think we have years ahead to carry on political dialogue. if the socialist government fails, not because of these pardons, but the social crisis we are facing. we are on the right track. host: we know the leaders who were pardoned, they are not known to be able to hold local office. apparently these pardons are also conditional on these leaders not committing serious crimes for a certain amount of time. when we are talking about crimes, what do you think that means?

what could encompass a crime? >> middle looks very shaky. like a future government. it's clear the person in belgium is not clear he can go back to spain, because there has not been a formal amnesty. part of the problem is the spanish government or judiciary has been using definitions of crime, and that is not necessarily considered a crime in other european countries. which is an element that is complicated attempts to ask for

extradition. some belgian judges have broke this extradition, also now the european court of justice has overruled the report that served as the legal basis to take the immunity from catalog. a lot of the legal basis being used is quite questionable. you also see examples of public officials in catalonia that are facing legal consequences, even if they were merely doing their job as bureaucrats. and have no political role whatsoever. i think a lot of it is very questionable. so far, and this also should raise some doubts on how solid

these pardons will actually be in practice. host: it was just mentioned how it is unclear how all of this might leave going forward. i want to ask you more about that. could what is happening in anyway open the door, for the guy in exile, to come back in some capacity or perhaps even be granted a pardon or clemency? >> as it has just been said, the situation is that many crimes that are crimes according to the criminal code like sedition, criticizing the king of spain, an attack on religion, they are not in line with other criminal

codes in europe. this is what the court of human rights has set all of these years. that means the president can go around, the judiciary in spain says he will be arrested. things will be changed. if we have a situation like here, where many have seen that they went to court, they would be in the street, whereas the president, if he comes back, he can be arrested and prosecuted. and after the prosecution he would be released. all of these leaders were

imprisoned. host: we have run out of time so we're going to have to leave the conversation. thank you to our guests. thank you for watching. you can see this send all of our programs by visiting our website, and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. you can also join the conversation on twitter. for me and the whole team, bye for now.

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