anchor: here are the headlines. katie has a new prime minister after two weeks of uncertainty following the assassination of its president. a 71-year-old neurosurgeon and public official calls for unity and is promising to build consensus. he replaces the interim prime minister. we are monitoring developments from miami. reporter: we have a prime minister who put his cabinet together with one real goal in

mind and that is to take katie to new elections. there have not been new elections since 2017 -- the next step, for patients not knowing what will happen next. now the goal is to hold free and fair elections. anchor: he won a runoff. and i live friend.

they're acting as agents of the united arab emirates. those are the headlines. i will have another update after inside story. anchor: the u.s. and a number of its western allies blame china for a spying campaign, washington says it was a threat to national security. beijing says the accusation is groundless. what is the fallout? this is inside story.

this was a unified condemnation of china, they also beijing was responsible for an attack on microsoft servers earlier this year, but stop short of announcing punishment measures for alleged cyber activities. there around a quarter of computers said to be compromised in march, affecting at least 30,000 organizations worldwide. nations including canada, australia and japan said hacking groups were behind the exploitation and accused beijing of publishers cyber activities. the chinese ministry of state security was singled out. the white house has not ruled out consequences for beijing.

but joe biden says china's behavior is different than russia. >> the chinese government, not a mike the russian government is not doing this themselves, but protecting those who are doing it. maybe even accommodating them. anchor: the number of countries involved with the largest to denounce china. the nation alliance once all states including china to uphold international obligations and act responsibly, while the eu condemned what he described as malicious cyber activities conducted from china, and said it resulted in security risks and major economic loss for government institutions and private companies. the united kingdom's foreign secretary said the chinese government must and what he

called systematic cyber sabotage. you can expect it to be held to account if it does not. china has rejected the accusations, calling them politically motivated. here's what the foreign ministry spokesperson had to say. >> the u.s. ganged up with its allies and launched an unwarranted accusation on china. this is made out of thin air and confused right and wrong. it is purely smear out of political motives. china will never accept this. china will always stand firmly against and come any form of cyber attacks. still, we will encourage support and condone any cyberattack. anchor: american security agencies have published more than 50 tactics they say were used to target networks, and the u.s. has indicted for chinese nationals late for a large-scale campaign to have computers

between 2011 and 2018. we will get to our guests shortly. but first, beijing. reporter: this collective condemnation of chinese cyber attacks by at least 30 countries including the u.s. has been deeply embarrassing for beijing. china has responded by denying it supported or encouraged any cyberattack's and call these accusations groundless and politically motivated. beijing is trying to undermine the credibility of the u.s. allegations by saying it has not provided enough evidence. there are simply too many cyber actors around the world and it is very difficult to pinpoint their exact location, let alone tie these to a single government. beijing is trying to turn the tables on washington, saying most cyber attacks around the world occur from inside the united states. it accuses washington of indiscriminately eavesdropping on the world, not only our competitors, but at friends and allies. it also says the cia has for 11

years and logic cyber attacks against chinese institutions, including technology, aviation and energy. while probably denying these claims by the u.s. and other countries, china has failed to acknowledge any of these allegations. as well as the indictment of four chinese nationals. anchor: letet's bring in our guests. joining me now via skype is the president of the global situation room and a formal global director at the white house under president obama. an assistant professor at the institute of security and global affairs. in beijing, china political

analyst. welcome to all of my guests. no smoke without fire, this is why seem to getting fanned politically from all sides. >> at the moment, i have to say the biden administration has taken a restrained approach to china, quite frankly. it's a different approach than they have taken with russia, but i think it raises a number of questions about the motivations. clearly they are trying to assemble a coalition of countries that are going to hold the line on china, but i don't think it actually has the desired effect. in some ways it allows beijing to claim they are being unfairly persecuted without actually the penalty or the terror, that is

so critically important for going to dissuade them from engaging in future attacks. anchor: over in beijing, let's get your reaction. >> what is this all based on? an investigation that says it is highly likely that an affiliated entity to the chinese government instituted the tax. this is the whole basis of it. you have people coming together based on a dubious claim. have you disprove that?

beijing thinks it is being rich. there being falsely enclosed -- accused, that you have this noted revelations that show the u.s. was doing far more that the chinese are accused of doing. there is an air of hypocrisy. anchor: let me go over to the other guest. would they join in this course that there wasn't enough credible evidence that a shared approach to the condemnation, while the gift says it is a theory? >> it is standard speak, because

you can never be certain. i would not be scrubbed as a dubious claim. the fact all of these countries have come out, u.k. and u.s. have also this, suggest there is rich evidence. we see some of that from private security companies. it's very difficult to prove that to an extent in international public sphere. anchor: how do we unpack that and find the evidence for it. great angles are being made for facilitating a potential hack. but they are leaving the question that the government may have accommodated groups who tacitly are working from chinese soil in a similar vein to the way the u.s. is treating russia, what makes this different as far

as beijing is concerned? >> phasing has not acknowledged there is any groups, if there are any chinese citizens stealing intellectual property, i don't think if an american steal something from germany or from russia it is attributed to the nation. for some reason the chinese feel anytime anybody chinese shows up, they are automatically a spy. you will note they refused 500 students were postgraduate students. because they're all spies. you have heard this repeatedly by republicans and democrats on both sides. this idea that somehow -- there

may have been in affiliation with the government, that we can condemn these people. if you stand by the rule of law, produce the evidence. don't stand there and name accusations on a drumbeat. this is part and parcel of an almost daily criticism of china. how is it possible china is the center of all people in the world? they have to be geopolitical competitors. anchor: and i asked what policies are in place in china to stop hacking from a local position? do they have laws in place? >> absolutely. it is against the law to do that. they have good laws, the question is enforcement. if they know who these people are, they go after them.

it's one of the few nations that actually do something about corruption as opposed to those who cast stones. anchor: back in washington, d.c., you might say the combined brainpower, the u.s. would have find a way for the dallas to stop hacking. >> certainly. efforts have been made, but this is one of those challenges that continues to evolve and morph. you solve one problem and that another one emerges. my friend in beijing they suggest presenting evidence in a court of law, chinese or american, the broader point is that nothing happens in china without the express permission,

so this notion of plausible deniability, there were sophisticated hackers, unbeknownst to or without the consent of the chinese government simply does not pass muster. anchor: let's bring you in to try and clarify. how do you start to investigate hacking? where do you start technically in the process? >>6 that is an important point. many investigations start in the private sector, in the case of microsoft exchange, these were detected by security researchers who were not state affiliated, then they were detected by private cybersecurity companies working for organizations who were their clients. they detected these kinds of intrusions and escalated that, they let others know and eventually left the states now. this one back to microsoft, and

microsoft try to issue a patch. it starts from some point of detection. security research, or by someone noticing underage -- unusual activities. it's very difficult to track that to the person sitting behind the keyboard, but it has been done. in previous cases, the u.s. has indicted specific individuals associated with chinese state and chinese military for intrusions. they have provided evidence. there is a lot of evidence in the public domain from these companies, from the u.s. government as well. even for the specific exchange tax, there is not a lot of evidence, it has been done, we would expect similar indictments in the future. [indiscernible] the left point to make is what

happens after the hack is discovered. this is about recklessness and its impact. initially you just looked like espionage, maybe on a large scale, the actor was trying to collect data, read emails. once they knew they had been caught and found out, they try to multiply this as much as they could, compromise as many organizations and in that way they left the door and window open to lots of other actors, cyber where, ransomware, you name it. that was the reckless part, when they try to spread all over the world. anchor: we can go back and forth on the blame game, but let's move this forward. the recent meeting that happened in the united kingdom declared in one of its statements that china posed a huge political threat.

china argued it would be big enough to be part of the global order, but would like to be part of the g7, to be taken to task if need be? at the moment it seems to be on the outside and there is an ongoing scenario where china seems to be browbeaten at every opportunity. >> let's put it this way. i think china wants to be part of the u.n., i think it is not fond of the cliques. the g7 used to describe itself as the most powerful economically advanced countries on earth. this time around, you will notice they drop economically advanced. all of them had negative growth during the covid bank. -- covid period. china has succeeded in the developed countries have moved sideways. this is an existential thr

eat to them. that is why there is a letter drumbeat. it is a sad state of affairs, but it won't end until countries realize that there are many paths to prosperity, not just one. anchor: let me take you over to washington, d.c.. because the recent debate has been about hauwei, the chinese technology firm that wanted to invest in the u.k.'s 5g project. that is not going to happen. a chief executive was arrested, incarcerated in canada. a real blow. >> if i can contrast the

statement by the united states and its allies with the approach the trumpet patient to china, trump tried to bulldoze, bully countries, including the united kingdom. i think the biden administration is making more progress in this is probably more sustainable and trying to work alongside allies. that is starting to worry beijing. what we saw yesterday was the world standing together, declaring with one voice. it came out of the g7.

this kind of behavior, reckless, risky behavior, is not going to be tolerated. the question that looms large as what are we going to do about it? will european and other allies the willing to put some penalties? anchor: will penalties be enough ? how china would retaliate if the eu are u.s. start walking down the road of sanctions. >> is not going to change china. this pious tone that the whole world said this when it is just in fact a bunch of colonial countries who are responsible for many atrocities. china has not started any wars, never broken any countries, not leaving afghanistan behind.

they did not to the things that were put forward by snowden in terms of actually hacking into the cloud and making sure they had access, not only to china but everybody else's information . this is an age of post-epoxy. people are talking about how evil and terrible china is, when in fact they are just a closing china. he did not say at any went that it was tied back to china. i wonder how they would feel if the situation was reversed. anchor: [indiscernible] these accusations are coming from europe, north america, and

quite surprisingly. >> he said a united world. how is that possible? anchor: go on. >> i think the point being you are seeing a much stronger alliance across the atlantic, some of the most significant global powers. that is unprecedented. we could figure out what is a global voice, regional or collection of countries. i would say to my friend in beijing, that there have been not just these accusations but a whole series of vaccinations and a whole lot of proof. let's not forget that there are millions of uighurs that might take to differ with the rosy picture.

i think what is important here is what rules as a global community? especially as it touches on cyberspace. this is somewhat the wild west. we're starting to see coalitions of countries to come together to set some standards. you saw this in the meeting biden had with president putin. anchor: let me bring in -- if this is the wild west, cyber development, can it be policed through an internet that is so wide and varied? >> the analogy is maybe a bit overcooked.

actions that have occurred in cyberspace, there are international norms that apply to cyberspace as well, they have been agreed. there have been larger working groups who've agreed norms of state behavior should be adopted more widely. using things like not engaging in reckless cyber attacks. saying that is the wild west undervalues the extent to which we have these norms. the question is how to eat -- now you can have non-cyber responses such as sanctions,

[indiscernible] this is where it gets more tricky when states choose to respond with their own. beijing says it is always china that is called out. that is actually not true. for paul that many cyber operations. the intellectual community, expert community is more objective, and they have a lot of evidence. finally i would like to say, we are seeing from china's responses in europe to the reporting violations around human rights, responding to politicians. anchor: that might be the my roman to end the conversation. we have run out of time. it's always good to get your insight. like to thank my guests.

thanks for joining me. thank you for watching. you can see the program again anytime. for further discussion qatar facebook page. you can also join the conversation on twitter. thanks for your time and company. >> join the debate.

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brandon: my experience is so different than a mainland chinese, it wouldn't be authentic for me to try to cook food for mainland china because that's not me, and that's not my audience. my audience is san francisco, and these cross-cultural exchanges are the bas for how food evolves. i feel like what we're seeing in this next wave of this generation of american cooks is this newfound confidence in