anchor: recapping your top stories. tunisia's president is demanding the return of stolen money, says investable -- individuals are being investigated. >> i will ask them to seek reconciliation which is better than prosecution. i do not prefer to put people in prison, but the money is owed to the people. these people have to be held accountable.

anchor: the u.s. senate has advanced a $1.2 trillion infrastructure package. earlier, senate republicans said they had reached a deal with democrats. senators in a bipartisan group working with the white house to move forward with the plan. >> i think this is an incredible opportunity to both improve infrastructure, which is badly needed, but show the bipartisanship can work. i'm very pleased with our ability to move on to legislation and continue to demonstrate that. reporter: pedro castillo has been sworn in as peru's president. his left-wing party wants to rewrite the constitution and address and equality. turkish authorities have

intercepted a boat, many were afghans escaping the conflict. dozens of people have been injured by a wildfire in turkey, strong wind sent the flames to a resort town. homes in four districts were evacuated. it's being investigated. england is allowing fully vaccinated visitors to arrive without the need to quarantine. it goes into effect on monday. those are your top stories so far this hour. up next is inside story. i will have a quick summary for you in 20 minutes. ♪ host: who owns the rights to

vaccines? rich countries failed to reach agreement on what is called ip. many say a waiver could boost production, others argue it would hamper innovation. is there a middle ground? this is inside story. ♪ hello and welcome to the program. inoculations are the number one weapon against covid, but not everyone has equal access. for a second time this year, members of the who have failed to find a compromise on vaccine patent waivers. south africa, india and the u.s., backed by dozens of countries are leading the calls for the suspension of intellectual property rights.

they said it would help increase production worldwide, and in the pandemic much quicker. drug companies and some european nations are against it, saying the waiver will not help developing nations. world leaders will meet again in september and october to find a solution. the wto spokesperson says it is a very emotional issue. getting production in developing countries somewhere shots can go into arms is of critical importance to everyone. some countries were looking for a pragmatic outcome. we're going to go to our guests but first let's look at how many people have been vaccinated around the world. three 9 billion doses have been administered so far according to data collected by bloomberg. uae has vaccinated the most

paper -- people per capita, more than two thirds having received both doses. in the u.k., just over half of the population have received a full vaccination. the united states has not yet inoculated half of its population. meanwhile, this is like jeopardy in zambia remain some of the least vaccinated countries in the world, with an average of one for every 100 people. ♪ let's bring in our guests. joining us on zero is a professor of law at northeastern university. head of a bout -- biotechnology lab, from france, to professor of intellectual property law at the university. a warm welcome to you all.

should there be a waiver? >> absolutely. we have waited for voluntary efforts to no avail. we have mostly inadequate supply, deal is the high prices. -- needlessly high prices, vaccine apartheid. the waiver will get the barriers out of the way so production can be increased. >host: should there be a waiver? >> ethic with 1% of the population vaccinated, we need more vexing, we need a waiver. host: is it as simple as that? >> i don't think it is as simple as that, there are many factors at play, but i agree with my colleagues. if we have this tool, if this is

not the occasion in which we use it, we probably should never scrap it. should be a waiver but other measures as well, otherwise it won't work. it's not a miracle solution. host: speed is of the essence. it's taken the wto nine months. is there not a quicker way? sharing technology, perhaps? something quicker than waivers. >> i think what we have seen is delay on all fronts. the who said the covid technology accessible less until june, and that one, the -- company has put one iota into that toolbox for the last 13 months. now we have nine months waiting on the waiver. we could actually look at what the world is doing, and wonder

why the world keeps kicking the ball down the field. maybe it's kicking it off the field. we needed solutions last year. addressing the wto thousands of people will die before the next meeting. average is that the european union -- it's outrageous resident biden is sitting on the fence without constructively engaging the south africa and india but fourth. i agree voluntary efforts should also be taken, but they have to be on manufacturing contract agreements.

there trying to work within the cartel. dennis helps to produce the insufficient supply. host: sinopharm is going to start production in morocco. >> exactly. morocco and other countries are looking at -- the easy and quickest way to get to produce the vaccine [indiscernible] [inaudible] their companies and profits. i agree, the football analogy. i think we have to be realistic. these countries are buying time.

that is the reality of things. to say it bluntly, they are letting people die. hoping they will get enough vaccination than they will ship them to the bar countries. to take this attitude and approach -- if you leave africa, $1.3 billion -- 1.3 billion of the population, if it escapes immunity, will come back. [indiscernible] every reasonable person will

think you can manage the pandemic locally, but to come out of it. you have to think globally. host: help us understand, when we talk about waving patents. it's not just the ingredients. why they so nervous? >> but they are nervous about is the lifeline, income. forget about the pandemic. one should not underestimate the investment that is made in developing medicines in general, and patents are there to provide a return on investment. covid-19 was an exception. there is little investment in governments in terms of subsidies and research. the normal expectations of these companies, that i'm not saying there are no abuses, but they do get a return on investment.

if they are now up to wave the patent price, as it were to give away return on investment, is a big step for them. it's also important to note, with these companies, that's not just a patent. if i gave you a patent, there's no way you can just make the vexing. you need lots of things that are not in the patent. all of these things need to be provided. the last thing these companies want is that somehow this will be waived, things will go horribly wrong, there will be contaminated vaccine. there was an incident with united states already. their name and reputation will go down the line. they are very weary, they don't have the staff to train. they don't have the staff to send around the shared no hound and facilitate things.

i can understand that as a patent lawyer. voluntary licensing would be a way out, but i understand we are moving at a snail's case. host: today you have it. -- there you have it. before sees companies to waive their patents, to put people off investing in future cures. >> i don't think we should forget governments and charities invest tens of billions of dollars in development and clinical approval of vaccines we are currently seeing on the market. governments had done so significantly before the pandemic because industry was under investing in government took up the slack in that regard.

we have to look at money that's coming in. there are estimates the industry stands to make between 98 billion in the hundred $90 billion this year in vaccine sales. -- $98 billion and $190 billion in vaccine sales. that they are not making money on their investment is not only we, it is preposterous. their earning or mis-earning incredible returns, and keeping the recipe secret. i agree, the proponents of the waiver have agreed, patents alone are not enough. we need confidential information. and trade secrets, manufacturing know-how. the underlying technology. the proponents have very clearly stated while the other intellectual property barriers need to be overcome. my theory is if need be, it can

be applied and implemented at the national level. i think the stronger possibility as with the threat of the waiver, after the waiver is passed and adopted by the wto, companies amend factors look come to the table in a different way. instead of backing off from sharing, table realize it is in their interest. because now there is a credible -- credible threat. with no credible threat, we see tight control within the existing cartel, inadequate supplies. there are many other barriers that need to be overcome, including staffing and investments, but the idea we should continue to wait, in africa and the rest of the world will be waiting with a bigger bowl. the u.s. and europe continue to

stockpile, to buy additional doses, to begin to prepare and distribute doses for new variants and booster shots, health workers in africa are doing it without. it's outrageous. host: even if there is a waiver, is the developing world in a position to administer the vaccine quickly, the u.s. was very quick. >> we have half a million of the population vaccinated in one day. [indiscernible] africans though the importance of vaccinations. the problem are the anti

-vaxxers. the other 33% would not be vaccinated. they will be waiting for other hesitance to come vaccinated. the other thing, talking about children, people at risk in africa, i understand that when you have a huge investment in time and money, what they are afraid of is to set a precedent. that is what they are afraid of. a think by setting this president, they open up the door and more cases like that will be coming. didn't want to share their technology for one reason, they are afraid competitors. if they think we don't have know-how, what is the problem?

they could just waive the protection and that the countries do it. i think they want to keep the recipe, afraid they are creating more competitors, not setting up a president for this approach. host: isn't the argument that the biotech companies make that this can set up a precedent,? -- a red herring? this is a unique, one off, charlie. >> if you care to look at the agreement, this is the exceptional scenario for the one-off case. this is not rewriting the agreement. some of us including myself would like to rewrite it, but that is not what is happening. this is using the emergency exit for the emergency situation. i don't think this is about them

being afraid of losing it all. some people in the industry, no doubt, but i don't think that is. that in reality, the u.k. and united states do not export any vaccines. in defense of the eu, it should be said they have almost exported as many as they have used themselves. there is a genuine, insufficient effort going on to share. indeed, i would agree with my colleague, developing countries. part of my family comes from asia. they are well-equipped, and well able to vaccinate, they are rolling out as quickly as they can. we should find a way, voluntary. there should be more licensing, more production.

we have lots of logistics. be a true waiver, it's probably the more realistic one. i hope we get there in september, as my colleagues have said, far too late, better late than never. host: what role is geopolitics by? would it help the european union if they were to encourage a waiver and see the vaccines distributed? >> the perspective of my colleagues in the global south is rich countries is 10 doses for each person in their country. to not stand in the way of

additional supplies the been able to vaccinate 1% of the population. it's truly outrageous. it's already been said,s the variants created this. europe should admit it made a mistake. at this point in time, preserving the process -- profits of the industry is no match to the global firestorm. the longer people remain unvaccinated, not only will they died, family suffer, but variants will grow. is a stupid policy. for geopolitical reasons and more reasons, your should change its position. to u.s. should help europe changes position, playacting hand-in-hand with india and south africa to actually produce a text, and do so over this

vacation, so they came back in september and say we have a draft text. let's see if germany wants to stand alone. i don't think that's going to happen. you're in particular -- europe in petiti -- particular. u.s. has to get off the fence and make the waiver happen. host: this deal visor and beyond tech have signed to send the process to south africa, they are not going to start producing that until the end of next year, with distribution early in 2023. it seems a very long way off, considering we know how quickly variants seem to appear. >> i agree with you. when you look at it from a scientific point of view, it's

common sense. you're not supposed to take this risk, leaving huge numbers of population without a vaccine. it's a terrible thing, terrible decision. new variant sent after coming back and starting another pandemic. i think the europeans and americans are playing good cop and bad cop. they're just trying to buy time. the position for the companies is a strong one. my question would be, what all the alternatives? what should we do? just let these countries by time, go through next year.

when they talk about variant in africa, we're are talking the whole world. should we just let this country decipher that? consensus approach of the wto is not questioned. host: that was a quick question on the wto. , just credibility at stake? it's already had trouble from donald trump when he was president. what is at stake for the wto? >> there is a lot at stake. the united states under donald trump has significantly undermined the power of wto to set agreements to do anything. without significant backing from the u.s., this is not going to happen, and the wto will perish. we need to u.s. to start following the european example.

we are doing this and out all of this are joining the line, and we are agreeing on a waiver. cap will be the way forward otherwise the wto will perish. host: how long do we agree this waiver for? is it sufficient or do you want permanence? >> it needs to last as long as the pandemic lasts. three years was a minimum proposed by the proponents. there's going to be negotiations on that. if there's a set time, i think it should be five or six years. we just don't know how long the variants are going to continue to circle the world. that is a minor issue in the real sense.

if we get expanded production, collectively the world's going to be so happy, families will do things they haven't been doing. business and economic activities will rebound. the longer we procrastinate the longer we protect the interest of one industry only. the waiver, the duration of the waiver would be much shorter if it were passed. that is the army of the situation. >> we are out of time, thank you to you all. thank you for watching. you can see the program again anytime by visiting our website. from our tobago to facebook. you can also join the conversation on twitter. we are best for me and the whole

team -- for me the whole team, bye for now. ♪ ■x■■x■x

- hey, i'm valerie june. coming up onreel south. - it's clear that the are hundreds of slave cemeteries in most of our counties. - [valer] scattered across virginia, historic african american gve sites have been long forgotten. - [crystal] i think it's important to know where you come from, good or bad, but i don't know it's a priority for a lot of people. kind of one of these things, either you care about it or you don't. - [valerie] uncovering these cemeteries allows us to discover more than the past, an important step towards american reconciliation. witnessunmarked, up next onreel south.