>> let's get around above the top stories. 80 people are known to have died following an attack on a military convoy in burkina faso on wednesday. a gunman killed civilians and security forces. in mali, 15 soldiers have been killed in an attack. a car bomb exploded, as their convoy drove towards the town of bali. more than 50 people were killed earlier this month in raids on three villages by armed groups. at least two people have been killed in the afghan city of as at a bad during a rally to mark the country's independence day. they happen --

there have been scattered demonstrations across the country. the taliban disbursed crowds with gunfire and some cities. at kabul airport, children have been hoisted above crowds, as people try to escape. the u.k. says it is unable to evacuate unaccompanied children. the u.s. president, joe biden, says his forces could stay in afghanistan until all american citizens are out. we have more from kabul. reporter: the problem is that with so many people, the taliban are overwhelmed. they have just closed down the airport road and put checkpoints on either side, trying to figure out who has a valid reason to enter and can actually get on these flights with the americans and other nations, or who is just trying their luck. they ran into issues, because the last couple of days, they have been trying to push back people shooting into the air, there are images of them whipping people, people trying to push them back. they were getting a lot of critique for that, obviously,

because people were really scared. >> foreign aid is finally reaching rural parts of haiti. devastated by a powerful earthquake on saturday. hundreds of people have been waiting for provisions and queued up for handouts from the u.n. the delivery was delayed after a mudslide blocked the main road, leading into the area. a u.s. judge has approved the boy scouts of america's $850 million settlement plan with victims of child sex abuse. the decision means the organization could reorganize and move out of bankruptcy. about 82,000 claims have been filed against the boy scouts. those are the headlines. "inside story" is next. ♪

mohammed: thousands of afghans have been scrambling at kabul airport to flee afghanistan, and european countries are worried about an influx of people at their borders. so, are they facing a refugee crisis? and what can be done to help those who fled their homes? this is "inside story." ♪ hello, and welcome to the program. i'm mohammed jamjoom. thousands of afghans have been trying to leave their country after the taliban takeover, and that is raising concerns about a mass of refugees trying to enter europe and other countries. the taliban's leaders have promised amnesty to former afghan army soldiers, as well as contractors and translators who worked for international forces. many of them are being evacuated by western capitals that are

taking staff out of afghanistan, and some governments have offered resettlement plans to thousands of afghan refugees. but others are not willing to accept them and are calling for tougher border controls. they're concerned about a repetition of the 2015 refugee crisis. >> it is a matter of some 10,000 people in the airport. but in the days, or weeks, or month to come, it may be a matter of many more people. this wave can reach us, but i don't think we have to present the problem, as from the security point of view, from the security point of view of migrants. first, don't call them migrants, they are exiled people, people who are flying to save their lives. mohammed: turkey is among the countries increasing their border security. it's just finished building a new wall nearly 300 kilometers long on its eastern border with iran to prevent illegal crossings by people smugglers and mainly afghan migrants.

but some afghans have already entered afghanistan. -- have already entered. >> i've come from afghanistan. the situation in afghanistan was intense. the taliban captured the whole country. but there's no work. we were compelled to come here. >> we've come from afghanistan, and we want to go to europe. the situation is bad in afghanistan. the taliban has come there. they behead people. there is no work in afghanistan. we are unfortunate, poor, and displaced. by crossing the borders, we reached here. mohammed: u.n. aid agencies are warning of a humanitarian crisis in afghanistan and have called on the taliban to allow them unhindered access to civilians. more than 550,000 afghans have been internally displaced since the beginning of the year. the heads of the u.n. and international aid groups have appealed for more humanitarian funding for the country, warning they're 800 million dollars short of what's needed. ♪ all right, let's bring in our guests. joining us on skype from kabul,

bilal sarwary, an afghan journalist. from geneva, shabia mantoo, u.n. refugee agency spokeswoman. and from mexico city, camille le coz, a policy analyst at the migration policy institute. a warm welcome to you all, and thanks so much for joining us on "inside story" today. shabia, let me start with you today. the unhcr has said repeatedly how concerned it is by the unfolding humanitarian crisis in afghanistan. first, i want to ask you, what is the scope of the crisis currently? what does it look like? and also, there are a lot of people who are expressing concerns about a potential refugee crisis, but this is really more of a crisis that concerns internally displaced persons, right? >> well, thank you, mohammed. that is indeed the clarification here. and what's sort of happening on the ground. since the beginning of the year, we've seen a number of afghans have been forcibly displaced inside afghanistan. so from january to the present day, we've seen 550,000 people who've been forced to flee their

homes. and they're all across the country, but they remain within afghanistan, and they actually join another 2.9 million people who've previously been displaced within the country itself. so we are dealing with a massive internal displacement situation inside afghanistan that requires a crucial humanitarian support. many of those who've been forced to flee, they need shelter, they need health care, water, sanitation, basic assistance, to enable them to set up and be able to best address their needs, while they remain displaced. there is talk and lots of speculation about refugee flows across borders, but to date, we've really seen these in a much smaller scale, and nothing compared to the magnitude of what's happening inside the country. mohammed: bilal, let me ask you, just how dire is the humanitarian situation on the ground in afghanistan right now? >> well, we definitely have a humanitarian crisis, in terms of people losing their livelihoods,

their crops, their businesses, you know, over the last many months of the fightings, people have been displaced, in some numbers to kabul, but it's also the fear and uncertainty that is prevalent among people, especially among those -- a generation of afghans who have been working with, you know, western countries and international militaries. so when you look at the international airport and you look at the chaos, the tragedy, the heart breaks, you know, that alone tells you how vulnerable the afghan people remain in the absence of hope for a better and more peaceful afghanistan. i was able to confirm that a big number of people are now moving out of kabul city and going back to their own villages and valleys and districts. these are populations from rural afghanistan, from the countryside, who had fled the fighting either in the last months, or in the last year. so at least there's some hope

there. but afghanistan would need a lot to rebuild, you know, the destroyed and damaged countryside, whether you talk about clearing roadside bombs from major highways, or whether you talk about rebuilding the critical infrastructure, you know, bridges, other infrastructure that's vital to everyday life. and i would also add that it is a litmus test for the taliban to make a transition from a fighting force into governance. we have to really remember the taliban are no more the shadow government. they control most of afghanistan, and they have brought in with them thousands of foot level soldiers, who have all known fighting in war, in afghanistan's valleys and hamlets, in remote parts of the country. now, here they are in kabul, in a major urban center, a city of six million people with high crime rate, with complicated streets in alleyways.

afghanistan, you know, is a country where the let's see factor is a must, because every other hour, every other day, things are changing at such a fast pace, events are unfolding, that it is hard to make sense of it easily. mohammed: camille, it seems like there is this narrative that is starting to take hold, that there will be this mass exodus of afghan refugees that are trying to get to europe. and it also seems like there are a lot of european politicians who are really in a panic about this right now. is there any evidence to support this contention, this idea that you are going to see a mass influx of afghans to europe, similar to what you saw in 2015? >> thanks. i think it's really too early to say, and as a reminder, the situation we're seeing now on the ground is different.

it's primarily the internal displacement. i think we should also remind ourselves that most refugees are likely to seek shelter in the closest country, in iran, pakistan, that they have historically. the route to europe is dangerous, and as we've seen in the past few days, there's been closure troubles at the border with turkey, iran, pakistan, so i would be really careful on the figures of crossing. it is for sure something that europeans need to monitor and that they need to prepare for. they need to prepare an adequate response, and i think that's where -- how we manage any potential crisis at the european border can be different, and i think we have this experience from 2015 or 2016 that we've learned from and that we have agencies that have increased border operational capacity. not to say this is perfect. that's far from the case. reception in particular remains a weak spot in the system, so it will need to be addressed. but i think we need, like,

that's what the discussion should be about -- can we map out all the possible scenarios in the next few months, and i think they'll refer to the uncertainty of this middle class. many of them are in the home, and they're deciding what to do. and so, europeans should prepare for different things that could happen in the next few months. mohammed: all right. let's take a step back for a moment to delve into this particular question. are afghans really heading to europe in large numbers? authorities in turkey said more than 27,000 afghan migrants have been intercepted so far this year, as they cross the border with iran. it's a route commonly used to smuggle afghans to europe, but only 3200 are estimated to have crossed eu borders in the first half of this year. that's a decrease of more than 40%, compared to the previous year. lithuania is increasingly being used as a route by afghan refugees. the government is accusing belarus of pushing asylum seekers across its border. at least 85% of afghan refugees lived in countries that neighbor afghanistan, like iran and pakistan.

shabia, let me ask you, the unhcr has released a non-return advisory for afghanistan, calling for a bar on forced returns of afghan nationals. what is the level of concern for those who might be forced to return? what could happen to them? >> well, in light of the unfolding humanitarian emergency in the country, and the protection issues, and the concerns that we're seeing, the critical thing is that if people are trying to flee in search of safety and protection, borders should remain open to them. they must be able to access asylum. and whether that is in neighboring countries or elsewhere, this is critical. refugees have a right to access asylum, to seek safety, to be protected, so this is our overwhelming concern. but the other issue is that if there are any considerations of returning or forcibly returning afghan nationals back to afghanistan, we are really urging against that, in light of

the situation, and the protection risks and issues that they could face. and so, we have issued this advisory, basically asking, requesting, urging that these are suspended, at least until the security human rights and overall situation improves. but this is one aspect. the second aspect is also ensuring that we do support the humanitarian response for the people inside afghanistan, for the people that are forcibly displaced, and that requires support for assistance programs, but also, protection support, and that really has to be sustained. so these are our overwhelming concerns for the situation in the country, and for those that may have needs and may try to leave. mohammed: ms. shabia, let me just follow up with you real quick. obviously, another concern is going to be unhindered access for the u.n., unhcr, other aid agencies. are you getting that unhindered access that you need right now? >> well, we've been present in afghanistan for decades, as have

many other humanitarian partners, and we've been responding to the needs on the ground. it's the people of afghanistan, those that have been affected by conflict, that are displaced, that do need our response and our support, so our commitment is to be able to continue that. as of today, we're still there, we are responding, we're working with partners, but obviously, our assistance is predicated on having the guarantees of safety and security for our staff, for our partners, and also the access to local communities. so these are the two key issues, and we are continually engaging and working to ensure that we have that access. but we are there on the ground. since the beginning of the year, we've been able to do humanitarian assessments for 400,000 people in afghanistan and also provide assistance to a quarter of a million people, so these programs and our work is ongoing, and that's where our commitment is. mohammed: bilal, shabia was talking about the concern for afghans who might be forced by other countries to return right now to afghanistan. let me ask you, how dangerous

could it be for afghans who would be forced to come back to afghanistan right now? >> well, this is one of the dilemmas, isn't it? like over the last many years, these western embassies, especially european embassies, would say kabul was safe, which was simply not true. and until a week or so ago, when the situation really got worse and there was an imminent danger in and around kabul city, that deportation stopped. i would say afghanistan is not safe. afghanistan is not a country where people see hope, a future, especially economically. forget about, you know, the security threats per minute, since what has happened over the last few days, the taliban have taken over the entire country, and it is that denial on the part of these countries to really recognize the ground situation. at the same time, there's a lot of politics involved in this, as well. the afghan government, at the

time, you know, under mr. ashrafwani, continued lashing out these refugees very publicly, saying that they had, you know, broken the social contract, that the situation was good here, and he was, you know, very supportive of such deportations, because he thought that would strengthen his position with these european countries, in terms of funding. but the harsh reality, you know, is that if these people do come back, they don't see any economic future here. this is a country where, you know, grievances and revenge and retributions, even at a village or district level, you know, could cost your life. so, you know, i'm very sympathetic to people who have left for a better life, when the country is simply not safe and the environment is not conducive. and i think the politics of, you know, governments, especially here, really undermine that, you know, basic human rights for those afghans, especially on

very, very vulnerable communities. mohammed: camille, i saw you nodding along to some of what bilal was saying there, so i want to see if you want to jump in. but i also want to ask you, from your vantage point, how are evacuations going for afghans who worked for european organizations and who have been targeted by the taliban? >> may be two points on this. the first one is the afghan government had asked for a moratorium on deportation for three months. and we had this letter on the fifth of august from six eu member states asking the european commission to engage in discussion with kabul to continue this return. so here, i think it is highly political, it's been politicized by certain eu member states, and it's been a bit of a concern, in terms of whether european -- the european government can reach a common front on this question, be it from region to afghanistan, but also the response to the crisis more

broadly. that's for the return. as for the evacuation, so several countries are trying to evacuate afghans at risk. this involved afghans who work as translators for european for -- for european armed forces, who work for ngos, for embassies and several countries. journalists, artists, other activists, but selecting these people has been externally challenging in the past days. and even the ones who get on a list to be evacuated face obstacles to get to the airport, given the situation is -- given how the situation is. then there are the ones not in kabul, who were in the provinces, i am concerned that these people are not going to be able to be evacuated, at least not in the next week. mohammed: yeah, bilal, you know, camille just mentioned something, a very interesting point, which is the fact that even those who may have been cleared to be evacuated or get

visas, it's very difficult for many of them to actually get to the city, to get to the airport, correct? i mean, this is a very dangerous terrain for them, right? >> i've been speaking to a number of people here in kabul and in a few other cities. this is exactly the concern. the journey is not, you know, less than 15, 20, 30 minutes for many directions in the city of kabul, especially these days, that you don't have the usual traffic jams. it is the security, it is the taliban at the checkpoints leading up to the airport, it is the massive crowd of hundreds of people, you know, it's the risk of stampede, for example, the killing of a young daughter for a family, it is the risk of being shot at by the american forces and by a special forces unit that is now working with the americans to secure the parameters there. so it is indeed a heartbreaking

reality. it's a tragedy. and i would say, you know, it is a chain of events, for four or five days, which has continued to result in the death and injury of afghans, but it's also tortured humanity, you know, afghan people, families. the rest of the world is just simply in shock, when you see that afghans are clinging on a u.s. air force plane, two of them fell. i don't know where they managed to hide themselves, but as the plane was taking off, you know, there were objects that were first seen as luggage, later on, eyewitness accounts said, hold on, those were human beings instantly getting killed. i think this mission started at the 11th hour, and to get out 10,000 to 15,000 american citizens alone to the airport would be a massive challenge. forget about the generation of afghans who have been working with the americans, with european countries.

there are different resettlement schemes and plans. this is also afghanistan's most capable generation. this is the most educated generation. this is the most invested generation of afghans, you know, who are going to be burying their dreams and aspirations. they're forced to leave, and now this trepidation and fear. although the taliban have continuously said publicly that they do not engage in retributions and target killings, they've given such assurances, but some human rights activists that i've been speaking to have called for what they say should be a humanitarian corridor, a proper, you know, process under which these people can safely be evacuated. and they say that artificial timelines, you know, with this evacuation plan, is also sending shockwaves, because when i was here, they were saying three

weeks time, four weeks time, it scares them. they say, what is next? you know, we've been abandoned, we've been betrayed by our allies, and we have been badly, badly let down by our former government, when the former president abruptly, you know, fled the country. mohammed: shabia, i've heard you and many of your colleagues on several occasions express deep concern for women and girls in afghanistan, because of the situation and the impact that it has had on them. let me ask you, what kind of trauma have they faced, have they been through? what kind of toll is this taking on that population? >> well, we've seen this here, that the majority of those who've been forced to flee their homes, they are women and children. we have statistics showing that 80% of those that were displaced in recent weeks, they were women and children. so this is a huge humanitarian concern, when you have so many, especially children, i think they comprise perhaps 60% of those who have been displaced. and so, the real concern is making sure that we can meet

their needs, and many of them may have health needs that may need to be taken care of, they may have gone through traumatic situations or have trauma needs that need urgent attention. and then there are, obviously, although the dynamics -- things have changed so rapidly, we are trying to keep a track on developments, but obviously, our overwhelming concern is for the situation of people affected by the situation, and for women and children, and to make sure that they have their basic needs met, that they are protected. there are obviously lots of human rights concerns and considerations, so that's why it's really important for humanitarian actors who are on the ground to stay there, to engage, to advocate for these protections and for these fundamental rights, and that's why the evacuations are just one part of the response now. we're not involved with those evacuations. they are arrangements that are organized between the governments of the countries concerned and the people of afghanistan. but they are not arrangements

that involve us. we are a refugee and humanitarian agency, but we are there, and we also have the same question, that these evacuations are going to benefit a limited number of people, but they can't overshadow, and they are not a substitute for the rest of the humanitarian response. so that's why it's crucial that we need support for the humanitarian situation in the country, to respond and to be able to help the afghans who are there and don't have the luxury or the liberty or the opportunity to be able to seek that protection elsewhere. so that's why it's so critical, to be able to respond to those needs on the ground. mohammed: camille, aid agencies, the u.n., other groups are trying to raise funds through the international community to help afghanistan at such a critical time. we know that at this stage, they are hundreds of millions of dollars short of where they need to be. let me ask you, when it comes to the humanitarian response going forward, how much support do you

expect may come from the eu? >> i mean, the eu just released a statement today committing to support, you know, the humanitarian response in afghanistan. how much is still i think a bit of a question for everyone. but if i can, i would want to complement that, because i also think, as we're planning this humanitarian response, which is obviously the top priority, there also needs to be some thinking about the more longer term response. and this is something that chancellor merkel referred to, actually, in the past few days, that, you know, one thing that -- one mistake that was made maybe in the response to the syrian crisis was not to provide sufficient support to the country, hosting the vast majority of syrian refugees. and we know that people fleeing afghanistan today will not return anytime soon. this is a lesson, you know, from the past crisis this crisis are those from the past crises. this crisis protracted people

and state in exile for decades. and so, we need to plan with cities, with national authorities in countries like pakistan and iran, so that these communities that host them that are also vulnerable can receive this form of assistance. and i think here, for instance, i ran and or pakistan in july was reporting that only half of their humanitarian appeal had been addressed. and so, that's also something that we need to think about moving forward. mohammed: all right well, we have run out of time, so we're going to have to leave the conversation there today. thank you so much to all of our guests, bilal sarwary, shabia mantoo, and camille le coz. and thank you, too, for watching. you can see the program again anytime by visiting our website, aljazeera.com, and for further discussion go to our facebook page -- that's facebook.com/ajinsidestory. you can also join the conversation on twitter. our handle is @ajinsidestory. from me, mohammed jamjoom, and the whole team here, bye for now. ♪

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