♪ >> hello again. the headlines on al jazeera. western countries are racing to evacuate people from afghanistan with less than a week to go until all foreign troops leave. the taliban urged afghans to state, saying -- once commercial flights resume. american citizens asked not to travel to the airport and it is advising those already there to leave immediately. antony blinken says about 1500 americans are awaiting evacuation from the country. alan fisher has more from washington d.c.

>> there seems to have been a specific threat made against people gathering outside the airport, especially militants for my soul -- isil. the airport was considered to be a vulnerable target, something the americans are aware of. undoubtedly, it is something that has come up. you will remember that on tuesday, joe biden essentially saying to the taliban, you have got to keep an eye on them. >> 170 indigenous groups are waiting for the court to make a crucial ruling on rights to their ancestral lands. a rights route appealed against the state's witness that tribes can only claim land if they live there or made their claim before a law came into force 30 years ago but indigenous people say many of them were expelled from their lands decades before. supporters of bolo be --

bolivia's former president have been marching through the streets, demanding her release. medics say she is in a stable condition after she tried to take her own life. she has been charged with genocide over the deaths of protesters in 2019. she faces charges of terrorism and conspiracy. rapidly expanding bushfire is threatening homes and businesses in the san bernardino in the u.s. county in california. firefighters say the winds are making it difficult to contain the south fire. the u.s. vice president accused china of bullying its southeast asian neighbors. kamala harris made the comments while in vietnam. harris is there as part of a tour aimed at countering china's growing influence in the region. those are the headlines on al jazeera. more news, coming up right after "inside story."

♪ ♪ ♪ >> as the world population grows, so does the waste we produce. some criminal gangs are taking advantage by illegally dumping trash in countries like romania. so what can governments do to stop this and enhance proper recycling? this is "inside story." hello and welcome to the program. yulia waste dump has become a huge issue for many countries around the world. this is especially the case in eastern european nations like romania and bulgaria. trash that should have been

recycled or treated properly is often dumped or in open fields, creating a health and environmental issue. criminal gangs have long taken advantage of this problem and facilitated the dumping of even more illegal waste. much of that trash comes from rich western european nations. some governments believe the waste is being handled properly but often it is discarded without proper treatment. that waste is polluting the water and air around them. governments are forced to spend millions of dollars every year to clean it up. what should countries do to implement proper waste management and prevent illegal dumping? we will put that to our guest shortly but first, a report from andrew simmons on how romania is tilling with this issue. >> this site is registered as a recycling center yet it became a mountain of waste mixed with building rebel. ignored by local authorities for

more than 10 years until now. >> a lot of plastic domestic waste, may be industrial waste. tom: the new head of romania's national environment agent the new nothing about it until sewage pipes'neath the tip collapsed a few weeks ago, flooding a suburb of bucharest. aside from the acrid stench and the colossal scale of this and others like it, romania now has an even bigger problem with illegal waste. go east to the black seaport and rubbish is a criminal commodity worth millions of dollars. a determined prosecutor here is taking on the cartels. >> the amount of problem of illegal waste trafficking is comparable with drug trafficking. >> he faces an overwhelming challenge but he did smash one audacious plan to import the

shipment of toxic waste from italy. so-called businessmen were involved and attempted to bribe officials. recycling centers are destinations. but instead, they go to basic incineration site or landfill dumps. pollution on a big scale. this is part of one consignment from the u.k., host of the global warming summit. he says the u.k. is not cooperating enough on getting prosecutions. >> i wish to have more collaboration from the part of the british authorities who are fighting against crimes. it regards not romania -- it is a huge problem. >> he says his investigation team is poorly paid and it faces intimidation from criminals. >> you are exposing your family,

your life. it's a problem. a big problem. >> the mountie stands beside symbolizes a different era of waste crime, now dwarfed by mafia cartels, bribery, corruption, and overseas, and there is pollution, never seen before, coupled with inaction and apparent indifference in other european states. andrew simmons, al jazeera, bucharest. >> let's bring in our guest. in sydney, edward, environmental entrepreneur and managing director of next tech, a recycling consultancy. in brussels, the policy analyst at the institute for european environmental policy. joining us in beirut, the founder of cedar environmental, and engineering organization.

a warm welcome to all of you. just give us a sense of the scale of this problem and how bad has it gotten in the last few years? >> in recent years, this problem has gotten much worse partially because of the increase in volume of waste that is available. also because there's been changes in many countries which have decided not to accept waste shipments like they used to and that has highlighted the degree to which many countries have been relying on simply shipping their waste abroad. i think many people are not aware of the degree to which that is happening. many people think that there is a very good recycling policy in place but in fact a lot of waste has been shipped abroad. >> what is the environmental and health impact of all of this?

>> when materials are shipped abroad, they don't always go to countries that have adequate waste management facilities. the materials that are shipped typically mix both recyclable and nonrecyclable materials and that very often, that is not thoroughly checked. when it happens in a country where it is being finally sorted, the good and valuable materials will be extracted and the non-valuable ones -- they will then be discarded or buried or burned. this has negative impacts. if they are not properly treated, they could be released into the environment and damage the surroundings for animals and see life. everyone is familiar about the volume of plastics that are released into oceans in many parts of the world. those scenarios have been where we don't have adequate waste management revisions to make sure these are properly looked after after sorting.

>> in the news a while back, lebanon was having a lot of problems with their whole garbage collection. give us a sense of your perspective on this and why this is such a huge problem. >> like the guy said, this is still unchecked, unregulated. a lot of advanced countries have shipped their waste to third world countries where there is not proper infrastructure. in lebanon, we are lucky in that we have very stringent regulations on accepting incoming waste from other countries. we have a lot of problems dealing with our own as well. there is also an economics aspect to plastics and recycling. no one wants to foot the bill of recycling this material.

this material can be used and reused and repurposed but someone needs to subsidize the cost of that. >> it is not an issue of try and use less plastic. it's about where it is in the chain and reusing it. reusing it is what you are saying. >> i mean, i'm not sure if the other guests agree with me as well. recycling plastic has made huge leaps technically speaking. we can practically recycle all kinds of plastics. technically, i'm saying. now, it's all about the economics. with the government want to subsidize such a -- such an endeavor or not? eventually, they will need to. >> we saw in the report from romania about how this -- there are criminal gangs that are

controlling their waste collection and processing of it which is part of what makes it challenging. let's say phenomenon you see all over the world. what is it about the rubbish collection business that seems to attract criminal elements? is it because it is kind of a recession proof business, always money to be made? people will always neither rubbish collected? >> exactly. it is a resilient business for criminal elements to make money. it is always needed. it is a good money laundering vehicle as well in some cases. it is an area that is very often under reinforced, hard to keep track of all of the rubbish that is being shipped around the world and it's available, a constant stream available. we see that in the e.u., the

enforcement of the rules that do exist are quite inconsistent. that is one of the reasons that romania is a -- is an area that has seen a lot of activity in this area. the enforcement is particularly bad but it's not going across the e.u. and the european commission has recently proposed that the enforcement mechanisms and the coordination within the e.u. nice be improved. >> let's talk more about that. what do you think needs to be done to stop this? >> there is a big opportunity to actually stop the export of packaging materials like plastics. countries that are well developed in collection systems, if i can collect them efficiently, they do preliminary sorting. these materials are recycled

inside the country or are they exported? the statistics for collection are usually countered as the statistics for recycling. what happens in the next step is really quite important. when the materials are released to another country, they are not always properly recycled, as we just mentioned and just heard but all of these materials actually have a value. if they are recycled in the country where they are generated, typically, they will create more employment. it is expensive to recycle materials because you have to have labor and energy to do all this. at the very end, you re-create the materials. those materials will replace virgin plastics and so they actually have a big benefit for the environment because it lessens what we need at the other end in terms of oil conversion into new materials so there is a big carbon benefit to recycling especially in the

companies -- the countries where they are generated. the other big effort of this is if countries generate plastics that are difficult to recycle, it becomes immediately obvious in that market and that means the recyclers can be back to the retailers and manufacturers about their lack of recyclability. all of a sudden, you have got a mechanism to repair the design process so that you can go through multiple loops many times with really and -- with benefits to everyone. the mechanism is to restrict the outlet of recycled materials for the countries. this is already happening but obviously, the mechanism has weaknesses in it and that is why we end up with examples like the one you have put forward. there are simple ways of doing it. everyone has got this in their targets. the big question is how do you

make the system function more efficiently? >> at what point in the chain can something be done to stop this? you mentioned how lebanon has very tough laws against collecting waste from outside the country. that is one area where you can toughen things up. where else is the best place to tackle the problem? >> at the u.n., we should -- all countries should agree that it is basic decency that you do not ship their waste onto other people's countries. it is as basic as that. once you for bid export of any plastic waste material and you couple that with some local programs, projects, subsidies to

encourage local recycling, this creates jobs, economic activity. plasc is a fantastic material. this is a material that masks for 500 years. you can rework it and work it and rework it again and again and again. you can make outdoor furniture with it. vertical forms, structures with it. it is a very versatile material to work with. shipping it to other people's countries where they lack the infrastructure should be a crime. >> you talked earlier about how there's a lack of mechanisms to really tackle the problem in certain countries like romania. we heard in a report how law enforcement agencies are up against it, dealing with these organized crime groups.

so what cannot just law enforcement agencies but governments in these countries -- how do you strengthen their ability to deal with this problem? >> well, i think there's two sides. there's the enforcement of the law to prevent illegal waste dumping. and shipments. but then we need to look, as we just heard at the other side of the equation, that is where the focus needs to be and where we have only just really started to explore the options in terms of making a circular economy that moves away from this linear model of dumping waste as cheaply as possible into reusing materials. it is feasible to reuse materials from plastic and all kinds of other products.

in the longer term, this is not the case and should make for a more holistic economy where people are employed locally. for example, repairing items. one of the mechanisms that the e.u. is looking at is a to have their products such as mobile phones and laptops, which are often discarded very quickly repaired. they will be looking at requirements to include a higher level of recycled content in products which often are very low at the moment. and funding research and development to improve recycling techniques. those are some concrete mechanisms that can be used and are being rolled out now in the e.u. and some other countries around the world. >> we mentioned earlier in this

howl richer companies seem to have been better equipped to deal with this because they have the infrastructure, technical infrastructure, and better law enforcement and so on. is the onus on them more to look at this at the global level to try and, you know, improve the situation for the poorer countries as well question mike they are part of the problem. >> you would have to say yes. --as well? they are part of the problem. >> you would have to say yes. the ones who are more economically wealthy have higher consumption rates of packaging material and they will generate more material. sadly, the world recycles 15% of the plastics it makes. 40% is going into packaging short-term applications. 60% goes into long-term products. met 40% is fast-moving and

should be recycled. we are only at the rate of recycling of 30%. what happens to the other 70%, it ends up going to landfill or waste to energy. could we do more in this area? those countries that are high generators of plastics have a greater responsibility. does romania have plastic waste? of course it has. 80 million people. it is generating waste. it is bringing in material from europe or wealthier countries. it is part of europe. it can buy these materials. there is a mechanism that allows this to happen. they are buying materials from europe or germany or austria or france or spain and they are coming in for processing. those materials should be processed where they work. one of the mechanisms to do that is what is happening in the

united kingdom where they are applying a 200 pound per ton tax on packaging that does not have 30% recycled content. what we have seen with the announcement of this tax, which is coming into play in april 2022 is that many companies are now investing in recycling. brand owners are specifying this material, looking to put it into their packaging. all of a sudden, there is a big local demand for recycled material. if every country put on a tax on packaging that did not have 30% recycled content, all of a sudden, local recycling with dart to be boosted. we are starting to transform economies in many countries with mechanisms like this. companies will go a long way to avoid the taxation so they will actually invest and create a new business with materials that are locally available. indeed, while the wealthier countries can lead, they can

actually spread the same sort of patterns to all countries so that all of them do something about their waste. as a planet, we know you're living at the rate of three planets. hold that in, create fewer carbon emissions, and actually have a more sustainable planet for the future, and i think that this is really where the waste industry can play a major role but of course the governments and retail sector have to play their part so that we do not live this linear model of making and discarding, so recycling is really part of the future, part of the way of paving a better path to more sustainable planet. very good opportunities ahead if we implement this in the correct way. >> speaking of opportunities, how important is it to try and raise public awareness about

this problem? it doesn't seem to be something that you do not hear about that often. i was surprised to read in a situation with plastic that you mentioned earlier that using less plastic and banning plastic has not really been the long-term solution. it's about where the plastic is in the chain so to speak. how important is it to try and educate people about it? >> very important. it is always to -- it's counterintuitive at this point. this is a well-established material. it is going to cost a lot of research and development and processing to come up with an alternative. it will be much cheaper, like we said, if we impose a tax on non-properly sorted waste or non-properly recycled waste. if you take that tax and create

incentive programs with that money to entice new businesses to go and -- you say we are going to pay a subsidy of 50 pounds per ton of pure low-density polyethylene pellets. this is the outcome of recycling plastic bags. once you put that into the equation, once you have taxation and incentives, things will start rolling and to do that, you will need to have the public pressure on board. the public is going to push decision-makers, press their decision-makers, that they need to clean up their act. we should not forget that most decision-makers in most countries are also under pressure from lobbies, from business lobbies, industrial lobbies, from the plastic lobby, not to tax the plastic materials. but this has -- this has brought

us here. this has brought us to this state of affairs, and this needs to be changed, and the only way to change it is to have as much of the population on board as possible. >> what do you think can be done to raise more public awareness. >> i think that in general, public awareness is increasing in general at the moment because of your awareness of climate change, for example, which is impacted as well by waste. a lot of climate emissions are produced in the production of products and in the extraction of the resources we need for them. so if we can reduce the amount of material that we use and that includes the circularity of our products, the better. and for that reason, i think that this is an issue that is very much in the public eye.

also, we see marine pollution resonates with the public. so i think in a way that the public awareness is there now. what is needed now is for governments to really take action and to put in place the mandatory frameworks on the tools we have been discussing today to push forward these policies. >> and on that, we are going to have to leave it. thank you to all three of you. thanks very much for being with us. >> thank you. >> thank you for wanting. you can see this program again any time by visiting our website, al jazeera. you can go to our facebook page. you can also join the conversation on twitter. for me and the entire team here in doha, goodbye for now. ♪ ♪ ♪

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