09/10/21 09/10/21 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> i have agonized over this vote, that i came to grips with it today and i came to grips with opposing this resolution stop during the very painful yet very beautiful memorial service, as a member of the clergy so eloquently sd, as we act, let

us not become evil that we deplore. amy: today, barbara lee. 20 years ago, she was the only member of congress to vote against r in the immediate aftermath of the 9/11 attack. >> i can't even tl you e detas of how horrible it is. people did some awful things during that time. amy: now the highest-ranking african-american woman in congress. we will speak to barbara lee. and then a conversation between masuda sultan -- an african-american woman, 20 years ago she lost 90 members of her family -- and rita lasar who lost her brother abe zelmanowitz at the world trade center attacks. >> looked at her and saw the

second plane hit the second building, and it dawned on me, my brother works there. >> brother is a hero and you are a hero for continuing this legacy. it is amazing to me that someone who has lost so much isn't as revenge-hungry as some of the other people that seem to want to start bombing whoever, wherever. amy: all that and more, coming welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. president joe biden has laid out a six-point plan to bring the u.s. covid-19 epidemic under control after a summer that saw skyrocketing rates of infections, especially in areas

with low vaccination rates. speaking from the white house thursday, biden said he was ordering nearly all federal workers and contractors to get covid-19 vaccinations or face weekly testing. he also said osha, the occupational safety and health administration, will require large employers to have their workers inoculated or tested weekly. violators face fines of about $14,000 per infraction. pres. biden: despite the fact for almost five months free vaccines have been available in 80,000 different locations, we still have nearly 80 million americans who have failed to get the shot. to make matters worse, elected officials are actively working to undermine the fight against covid-19. instead of encouraging people to get vaccinated and mask up, there ordering mobile morgues

for the unvaccinated dying from covid in their communities. this is totally unacceptable. amy: the republican national committee immediately promised to sue the biden administration over its vaccine mandates. south carolina republican governor henry mcmaster tweeted -- "we will fight them to the gates of hell to protect the liberty and livelihood of every south carolinian." the first international passenger flight out of afghanistan kabul airport since the end of the u.s. withdrawal landed in doha thursday. the qatar airways plane carried americans, canadians, and britons but the fate of many more who are still trying to leave afghanistan, but foreign nationals and afghans, is unknown. meanwhile, there have been increasing reports of taliban intimidation and violence against journalists, aid workers, activists, women, and others. the u.n. said its afghan staff have been subjected to threats, physical abuse, and some offices were looted. this is journalist taqi daryabi,

who was arrested while covering a women's protest in kabul on wednesday and tortured in detention. >> for about 10 minutes, about seven or eight people were beating us as much as they could. they would raise sticks and beat us with all of their strength. when they treat journalists like this, it is possible that journalism will stop in afghanistan within a few months. it will be desoyed. what we want from e taliban is for them to be responsible for the security and well-being of journalists. amy: the syrian army entered the southern rebel-held city of deraa wednesday for the first time in over a decade amid a fragile russian-brokered truce. deraa was the birthplace of the uprising against the government of president bashar al-assad in 2011. human rights watch said civilians in the area are facing dire shortages of food, medicine, power, and other basic necessities amid a recent escalation in attacks by syrian government forces and their allies. meanwhile, the syrian civil

defense says at least five civilians were killed in government shelling attas in idlib province earlier this week. in immigration news, the biden administration has extended temporary protected status, or tps, by another 15 months for some 400,000 immigrants from haiti, honduras, el salvador, nicaragua, sudan, and nepal. this means they will be able to continue working and living in the u.s. without the threat of deportation through december 2022. immigrant justice advocates continue to urge congress to pass permanent immigration relief that includes a path to citizenship for tps holders and millions of undocumented people in the u.s. in more immigration news, a new -- whistleblower complaint is denouncing the ongoing abuse faced by unaccompanied migrant children held at the fort bliss military base in el paso, texas. buzzfeed reports children were burned after bathing in blistering water, had their blood drawn without explanation and were constantly threatened with deportation. this is the third complaint detailing unsafe and brutal conditions at fort bliss, where

the biden administration set up large tents to hold thousands of unaccompanied migrant children. in texas, the u.s. supreme court on wednesday stayed the execution of john henry ramirez -- who says the state violated his religious freedom after it denied ramirez's request to have his pastor hold his hand or touch him and pray with him in the death chamber. the supreme court will likely argue the case in october or november. the u.s. justice department has sued texas over its near total-ban on abortions, calling it unconstitutional. the law, which bans abortion starting around six weeks of pregnancy, even in cases of rape or incest, circumvents the federal protection of abortion rights by deputizing private citizens to enforce the ban. this is attorney general merrick garland. >> does far, the law has had its intended effect. because the statute makes it too risky for an abortion clinic to stay open, abortion providers have ceased providing seices.

this leaves women in texas unable to exercise their constitutional rights and unable to obtain judicial review at the very moment they need it. amy: the justice department is seeking an injunction against the law. president biden has withdrawn the nomination of david chipman to head the bureau of alcohol, tobacco, firearms and explosives. chipman, a 25-year atf veteran, was attacked by republicans and the nra for being a gun corol advocate. and two democrats -- west virginia senator joe manchin and montana senator jon tester -- would not commit to confirming chipman, while maine independent angus king, who caucuses with democrats, said we would vote against his confirmation. the newtown action alliance said -- "the reason why there has been only one senate-confirmed atf director in the last 15 years is because the gun industry profits when gun laws are not enforced. david chipman should have been confirmed." meanwhile, climate activists

blasted biden's pick of willie phillips to serve on the federal energy regulatory commission. phillips has represented oil and gas interests while working in corporate law. the biden administration moved thursday to criminal protect the alaska's bristol bay watershed from development, including a proposed gold and copper mine that would have destroyed the world's most productive sockeye salmon fishery. environmentalists and indigenous groups in the region have long fought the proposed pebble mine, an open-pit mine that would require construction of a massive power plant, natural gas pipeline, and huge, toxic tailing ponds. in massachusetts, harvard president lawrence bacow said on thursday his university will no longer invest its $42 billion endowment in fossil fuel companies. the announcement was a victory for the campus organization fossil fuel divest harvard, which was founded in 2012. the group tweeted -- "it took conversations and protests, meetings with administration, faculty/alumni votes, mass sit-ins and arrests, historic legal strategies, and

storming football fields. but today, we can see proof that activism works, plain and simple." and in labor news, nabisco workers in five states remain on strike one month after workers at a portland, oregon, plant walked off the job to protest management's demands for changes to work schedules and cuts to overtime pay. some workers have been forced into 16 hour shifts during the pandemic. others were being asked to work 12-hour shifts three to four days a week, including on weekends. this is nabisco worker april flowers-lewis, who joined a picket line outside a chicago plant in august. >> we have aamily just as well as the human resources a management. while we are working on th weeken thereat home with their families. we can't even get a chance to enjoy our birthday party for our grandkids. we cannot go away to take our kids to college because we are being fced to work. we cannot enjoy our spouses because we are at work. by the time we go home, go to slick, try to pick up something

to eat, go to bed and be back at work. amy: meanwhile in buffalo, new york, workers at five starbucks locations have joined an unprecedented push to unionize the coffee and fast food chain. members of the newly formed starbucks workers united have filed petitions for union elections with the national labor relations board. they say they've faced an intense union-busting effort by starbucks corporate executives. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. saturd marks the 20th anniversary of the september 11 attacks. in the days that followed, the nation reeled from the deaths of over 3000 people and president george w. bush was beating the drums for war. on september 14, 2001, three days after the devastating 9/11 attacks, members of congress held a five-hour debate on whether to grant the president expansive powers to use military force in retaliation for the attacks, which the senate had already passed by a vote of 98-0.

california democratic congressmember barbara lee, her voice trembling with emotion as she spoke from the house floor, would be the sole member of congress to vote against war in the immediate aftermath of 9/11. the final vote was 420-1. >> mr. speaker, i rise today with a heavy heart, one that is filled with sorrow for the families and loved ones who were killed and injured this week. only the most foolish or the most callous would not understand the grief that has gripped our people and millions across the world. this unspeakable attack on the united states has forced me to rely on my moral compass, my conscience, and my god for direction. september 11 changed the world. our deepest fears now haunt us.

yei am connced that military action will not prevent further acts of international terrorism against the united states. this is very complex and complicated matter. now this resolution will pass, although we all know that the president can wage a war even without it. however difficult this vote may be, some of us must urge the use of restraint. our country is in a state of morning. some of us must say, let's just pause for a minute and think through the implications of our actions today so that this does not spiral out of control. i have agonized over this vote, but i came to grips with it today. and i came to grips with opposing this resolution during

the very painful yet very beautiful memorial service. as a member of the clergy spoke eloquently and said, "as we act, let us not become the evil that we deplore." amy: "let us not become the evil we deplore." and with those words, oakland congressmember barbara lee rocked the house, the capitol, this country, the world. the lone voice of more than 430 congressmembers. at the time, barbara lee was one of the newest members of congress and one of the few african american women to hold office in either the house or senate. now in her 12th term, she is now the highest ranking african american woman in congress. yes, it is 20 years later. on wednesday this week, i interviewed congressmember lee during a virtual event hosted by the institute for policy studies, which was founded by

marcus raskin. a former eight in the kennedy administration who became a progressive activist and author. i asked her how she decided to stand alone, what went into that decision, where she was when she decided she was going to give her speech, and then how people responded to it. >> tha you so much, amy. thank you to everyon especially ips for hosting this very important forumoday. let me s to tse for historical context and also just an honor, marcus raskin. he was the last person i spoke to before i gave that speech. the very last pers. i had gone to memorl and ha come back. i was on this committee of jurisdiction, foreign affrs committee wre the authorization was coming fr. of course it d not go through e committee. it was supposed to come up on saturday. i got back to the office and

they said, up to get to the floor. the authorization is coming up within an hour or two. so i had to race down to the floor. i was trying to get my thoughts together. as you can see, i was -- i won't say not prepared, but i did not have what i wanted in terms of my framework and talking points. i had to scribb something on a piece of paper i calledarcus andaid, ok, -- i had talked to him the last thredays. i talked to my former boss, for those who don't know, great warrior for peace and justice from my district. i worked for him for 11 years. i talked with ron and i tald to seval constitutional lawys. i talked to my pastor. mother, famil it was aery difficult tim but no one that i talked to,

amy, suggested how i should vote. it was very inresting. even marcus did not. when we talked about the pros and cons,ith the constitution quires, what this was about, all the consirations -- it was ve helpful f mto be able to talk to the individuals because it seems like they did not want toell me to vote no cause they kw all hell was going to break lose but they kind of gave me the os and cons. ron -- we walked through our backgrnd a psychology and social work and he said, you know, the first thing you learn in psychology 101 is you don't make critical, serious decisions when you are grieving. and when you're anxious and angry. those are moments where you have to get through that. you have to push through that, maybe then you can bin to engagen proce that is thghtful. ron nd i tald a lot abou

at. i talkedith oth memrs of the clergy. i don't think tked to h, but i ntioned him becau i was llowing a t of his wk and rmons. he is friend oine, pasr of rerside crch. the past they had talked about just words, what are the criteria for just wars. my faith was wghing in but it was basically the constitution requirement, the members could've congress cannot give away responsibility jt could not give away responsibility for president. i came to the decision once i read the resolution -- when they brought back the second one, was still too broad.

use the word "forever." it was just a total abdication of our responsibilities as members of congress. i knew that it was setting the stage -- i always call this a forever work, in perpetuity. when i was at the cathedral, i heard the reverend when he said, let us not become the evil we deplore. i wrote that on the program. i was pretty settled in going into the memorial service, i knew -- i was 95% voting no. when i heard him come i was 100%. i had to vote no. prior to going to the memorial, i was not going to go. i talked to elijah cummings. we were talking in the back of the chambers. something motivated me and moved

me to say, no, i am going. i ran down the steps. i think i was the last person. i had a can of nger ale in my hand. i ll never forget that that is kind of what led up to this. it was a very grave moment for e count and of course i was sitting in the capitol and had evacuate that morningith a few mbers of t black caucus. the administrat. we had to evacuate at 8:15, 8:30. little did i know why except "get out of here." looked back and saw the smoke and that was the pentagon that had been hit. but also on that plane, flight 93, which was coming into the capitol, our chief of staff andre swanson, his cousin was one of the flight attendant on flight 93. during this week, i have been thinking about everyone lost their lives, the communities

that still have not recovered, and the heroes and sheroes on flight 93 could have saved my life and those in the capitol. it was a very sad moment. we we all ieving. weere angry. we were anxious. everyone wanted to bring terroris to juste, incding myself 'm the ughter of a military officer, but i do know -- mdad was in world war i i know what getting on a war footing mean i did not want to say let's use milita option ishe first option. y: so whatappened after you came off the floor of the hou, ging that momentous two minute speech, and ing back to your office? what w the reactn? >> i went back into the cloakroom and everyonran back

to get me. i remember most members -- only 25% of the members in 2000 what are cuently serving n. but there are still many servin they came back to and aa free chipset, get to change her vote. it wasn't anything like, what is wrong with you? or do you know you have to be united? we can't politicize this, it has to be republicans and democrats. but they did not come at me like that. they said, once had, are doing such great work on hiv and aids -- this is when i was in the middle of working on the global pepfar. another said, harm is going to come your way. we don't want you hurt. you need to change that vote. several members came back to say, are you sure? you voted no, are you sure?

one of my best friends, she and i talked and she said, you've got to change your vote. she said her fily said, this is a hard time for the country and even myself, you know, we have to be unified. we're going to vote. you need to chge or vote. it was only out of concern for me that mbersame to askme to change my ve. latemy mother said -- i like mother said, they shod have, becae i would have told him after you deliberated in your head and talto people, if you had come to a decision, yo're pretty bullheaded and ready stubborn and it is going to take a t to getting to chan our mind. but you don't makthese decisis easily, she said. i mother told me that, the should've called me and iould have told them. so i walked ck to the oice and micon started ringing. i looked up at t television and there's a littlicker sayi one no book.

i think one reporter was sang, i wonder who that was? theny name showed up. oh, well. i started walking back to my office. the phon started bwing up. the first call wasrom my dad. in his latter years, he wanted to, colonel. he was so proud of being in the military. he was the 92nd battalion, world war ii, all african-amecan battalion in ita supporting the normandy invasion. later went to korea. he was theirst person who called m he said, do not change your vote. that was the right vote. i did not talk to him beforehand. heaid, do not send our troop in harm's way. know what war is like and i know wt it does to families. you can just put them out there without any strategy or plan or congress at ast knowin wha that is gog on. so he said, that is the right

vote, stick with that. i felt happy about that. i felt really proud. i can't evenell you e details of how horrible its. people did some awful things during that time to me. maya angou said, "i rise" and we keep going. the letters in emails and phone calls were very hostile and hateful and calling me traitor and said i could -- committed andctive treason. i would say 40% of those communications, 60,000 -- 40% are positiv people from all arou the wor sit positive messages to me. and since then, and imy clothes will share this one story because this is after-the-fact, ju a couple of years ag as many of you know i've supported kamala harris for

president. i was in south carolina. there was a big rally. security everywhere. this tall, big, white guy looked like a little kid, comes through the crowd, right? yes tears in his eyes. what in the world is this? he said, i was one of those who sent you a threatening letter. i was one of those. he went out all of what he said to me. he was one who threatening. and he said, i came here to apologize and i brought my son because i wanted him to see me tell you how sorry i am and how rit you were an just know that this is the dayor me that have beewaiting fo over the years, many people have come in different ways to say that. that is what has kept me going and a lot of waysnowing, you know, because of the different groupsnd veterans that have

been working around the country ganizing and mobilizing come educating the blic- people ally have ben to understand whathis was about and what it mes. so have to thank everybody, but certainly the wagonsecause this was not easy. because l of you are out there, people come up to me now and say nice things and support me. really, a t of lovmost of america ngressmemb leenow it is 20 years later and president biden has pulled the u.s. troops out of afghanistan. he is ing fierce attked by both democratsnd replicans for the chaos of the last few weeks. there haseen congress calling y inquiry in what happed. but do you think that inquiry should extend to thehole0 years of the longest warn u.s. history? >> i think we need an inquiry. first ofll, let me say i was

one of the w members whgot out early and sported the esident. he madthe correcdecision. i know if we stayed there militarily for another 5, 10, 50, 20 years, we would probably be in a worse place because there is no military solution in afghanistan. while it was difficult for him, we talked a lot about this during the campaign, and i was on the drafting committee of the platform and you can go back and look at what both bernie and bidens advisors on the platform came up with. he knew this was a hard decision. he did the right thing. having said that, yes, it was rocky in the beginning. there was no plan. i mean, i don't guess. it did not appear to be to be a plan. we did not know -- i don't think even the intelligence committee, at least it was inconclusive

intelligence, i assume, about the taliban. there were a lot of holes and gaps that we are going to have to learn about. we have a responsibility to find out, first about, what happens as it relates to the evacuation even though it was remarkable that 120,000 people were evacuated? , on. i think that is unbelievable evacuation that took place. still, people lived there. women and girls, we have to make sure they are secure and there is a way to get every american outcome every afghan ally out. there is still more work to do. it will require a lot of diplomatic -- ma diplomatic initiatives to really accomplish that. but let me just say, the ecial inspector for afgnistan reconstruction, he has come out with report over and over and over again. the last 1 -- i want to read a

little bit about what the last one, just came out a couple of weeks ago. he said, we were not to in afghanistan. he said this was a report that outline the lessons learned to policy makers rather than making recommendaons. the report also found the united stes government -- in the repo -- notnderstand the afgh context, including socialist, culturally, politically. he said u.s. officials rarely had a mediocre understanding of the afghan environment. i'm reading this from the report. in this ignorance often came from a willful disregard for information that may have been available. these reports have been coming out for the last 20 years. we are trying to make them public. yes, we need to go back into a

deep dive and a drill down. we also need to do our oversight responsibilities in terms of what recently happed so it wi never hapn again. so so the last 20 yea when we conct our oveight of wh happened, will ver happen again. amy: finally, in this part of the evening, espially for young people, what ga you the courage to stand alone against war? >> oh, gosh. well, first of all, i prayed. secondly, i'm a black wan in amica and iave been through a heck of a lot in this country stop like l black women. i mother -- i have to share the story because it started at birth. i was born and raised in el paso, texas. my mother needed a c-section and went to the hospital. they would not admit her because she was black.

it took a lot. by the time she got in, it was too late for a c-section. th just left her there. someone sa her. e was unconscious. they jus saw her laying in the ll. finay, they did not know what to do. so they too her in -- she told me w emergency, it wasn't even delivery roo they ended up trying tfigure out how and in the world they're going to save her lifbecause byhen she s unconious. theyad to pulle out of ther' womb using forceps. you hr me? i almost did not get here. i almost could not breathe. i am as died in chdbirth. my mher almosdied. as a child,hat can say? if i had the courage to get here and my mother had the purge to birth, i guess everything else is like, no probm.

amy: congressmember lee, it is been a pleasure talking toou, member of the house democratic leadership, the highest-ranking -- amy: california congress member barbara lee now in her 12 turn. she is the highest-ranking african-american woman in congress. in 2001, september 14, just three days after the 9/11 attacks, she was the sole member of congress to vote against military authorization. the final vote, four hundred 20-1. when i interviewed her wednesday evening, she was held 20 campaigning in support of gavin newsom ahead of this tuesday's recall election, with vice president kamala harris, who was born in oakland. barbara lee represents oakland. on monday, newsom will campaign with president joe biden. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "remember rockefeller at attica" by charles mingus. the attica prison uprising began on september 13, then-new york governor nelson rockefeller ordered armed state troopers to raid the prison. they killed 39 people. on monday, we will look at the attica uprising. this is democracy now! i'm amy goodman. this week marks 20 years since the 9/11 attacks. on the morning of september 11,

2001, democracy now! was on the air in our downtown firehouse studios when the world trade center was attacked. we were the closest national broadcast to ground zero. the latest news we have is there have been widespread attacks that clued at least three commerci jet crashes. we now believe perhaps four step three commercial jet crashes into significant buildings. in the first attack on a plane hit the north tower of the world trade center in manhattan shortly before 9:00, followed by another plane into the second tower about 20 minutes later. a hours later collapsed. about an hour later, a plane crashed into the pentagon, part of which collapsed. amy: that was just a part of our many are broadcast will stop we just did not go off the air on that day for at least six hours. we were just doing radio at the

time. democracy now! closely followed the fallout from the 9/11 attacks, both at home and abroad. i warn her listers and viewers, the images are graphic. this is about violence. today we go back 20 years and revisit a remarkable conversation i have two new yorkers -- rita lasar and masuda sultan. rita lasar lost her brother abe zelmanowitz on the 27th floor of the world trade center. he worked at blue cross blue shield. he refused to leave until emergency workers came to help rescue his best friend ed, a paraplegic. they died along with so many others. a few days later, president bush invoked abe's story in a speech at the national cathedral in washington, calling him a hero. his sister, rita, wrote a letter to "the new york times" urging bush not to bo afghanistan. she wrote -- "it is in my brother's name and mine that i pray that we, this country that has been so deeply hurt, not do something that will unleash forces we will not have the power to call back." and that is exactly what happened a few weeks later.

untold thousands have died in the two decades since then. in afghanistan, among them, the family of masuda sultan. she was an afghan woman living in new york at the time of the 9/11 attacks. she soon got word that 19 members of her family had been killed in a u.s. bomb attack in afghanistan. they had moved to a farmhouse outside kandahar to escape the u.s. attacks. it was there they were bombed. when masuda sultan and rita lasar met in our studio in january of 2002, masuda had just returned from afghanistan, where she had met with surviving members of her family. we began the conversation with the report she did for democracy now! as she made her way from afghanistan to pakistan while investigating the bombing. rita and masuda sat and listened to the report we replayed for them. masuda had just returned. we were playing the tape of her in afghanistan as she traveled, calling in from a dirt road. >> we went over there last

night. i heard there was some devastation. i family -- i have some cousins that live in kandahar and extended family. they lived near some taliban buildings stop they anticipated once he was bombing had started, they would not be safe any longer where they were. they decided to move to some farmland outside the city. they were there to stay say. one evening at about midnight while they were sleeping, they heard some loud noises outside and realized that the area was being bombed. some rockets hit nearby and they decided they had to leave. as they were running outside their rooms, some of them were

hit by rockets, others were being shot up. they described the scene where they were running with kids in their arms, dodging bullets left and right while balls of fire were falling to the earth. they had no idea what was going on. they were just writing in any direction for their lives. -- running in any direction for their lives. some of them heard word of their loved ones falling to the ground -- amy: we are talking to masuda sultan who is describing how her family members were killed by the u.s. bombs that fell on a farmhouse they were taking refuge in outside kandahar. she is speaking to us from afghanistan. >> there were women and children

running for their lives, being shot at by helicopter hovering over their homes. these people were not taliban supporters. there were not al qaeda fighters. they were simple afghans trying to stay safe in their own country. the events of september 11 really made me angry, but seeing these people and what they went through makes me angry as well. they say in war, they say you have to break a couple of eggs in order to make an omelette. but when those eggs are your family, what can you do? amy: how many members of your family were killed in the bombing? >> 19 members of that extended family were killed.

there were many women and children in that 19. we were shown some of the pictures. we met the children that became orphans are lost their mothers. one of them was a little girl that was a year and a half old. she had been drinking breast milk. there are having trouble with her getting used to the powdered milk. when you see the faces of those little children and they tell you the story of how their mother died on their lap with the blood flowing out of their head and they ran for their lives, it breaks your heart. it breaks your heart to know this is the collateral damage of war. and because that was masuda sultan calling into democracy now! from afghanistan at the end of 2001. she had returned to her native country because she learned 19 members of her family have been

killed in the u.s. bombing of anniston soon after the september 11 attacks. we are going to this arbery today as we move forward. a few months later january 2002, we were joined by masuda sultan who had just returned from afghanistan and another new yorker. we were joined by rita lasar for the first time. rita lasar at the time, seven years old, lost her brother abe zelmanowitz. they sat and listened to the report. she had just returned from there. when we talked to rita and masuda, to talk about what happened on the morning of september 11, 2001, to her brother. >> i was listening to the radio and a newscaster broke in to say a plane had hit. had hit one of the world trade center buildings.

i thought, gee, what an accident. and i live on the 15th floor and i ran to my neighbor's house and she has a clear view of her downtown manhattan. i looked out her window and saw the second plane hit the second building. and it dawned on me, i brother works there. my brother is in that building. and i sort of went crazy. then i went about the day doing what all those other people did, calling every hospital trying to find out if he had been brought to a hospital. i went down to the hospitals to

see if his name was on the list. then i realized he had died. and because he had stayed behind to stay with his quadriplegic brother -- i'm sorry, friend -- who could not get out, although he was on the 27th floor and he could have saved himself, he died. amy: how do you know that? >> he was on the phone with my other brother and my sister-in-law. he said, don't worry, we are waiting for the firemen to come. ed was in a wheelchair and could not move. but by the time the firemen came, the building collapsed and it was too late.

and then president bush mentioned him in the national cathedral speech and cited him as being a hero. and i realized that my government was going to use my brother as justification for killing other people. and that had a tremendous impact on me. i did not want that to happen, not in my brother's name. so i wrote a letter to "the times" which they printed come asking our government to please be cautious and not do something they could not take back. then i was asked to speak at a peace rally, and i did it. and just before i went on, i was told they had started bombing afghanistan. and i realized something i had never realized before.

i had heard the term "collateral damage" on my life. it was always used about people far away from us. and i realized now what it meant because my brother was collateral damage in war he did not want and masuda's people do not want. i knew i had to do something, but i did not know what. and i got a call from this wonderful woman, from this wonderful -- marvelous organization called global exchange. she said, would you want to go to afghanistan and meet people like you who have lost their families? and i thought, that's perfect. because masuda and i are the same.

there is no difference between us. my family member died. i am grieving. in her family -- god, i don't know how you survive just hearing about yours. but we are the same people. so i'm going to afghanistan, going to see the people who have been left behind while the families died with three other people who have lost family members either in the plane that went down in pennsylvania or the pentagon or the world trade center, and we are going to come back here and we're going to try to get the american public to open its heart and its wallet for your people the way they have done for us. and try to get our government to understand that bombing is not the solution. amy: masuda, you have never met

rita lasar before. you have just come back from afghanistan where rita is headed to right now. you have had a week of reflection and you've come back well, to ground zero. he left from ground zero and you have come back. what are your thoughts now and if you could talk about how it was for you to meet with your family members? >> first of all, i want to express my condolences to rita. i did before but i think your brother is a hero and your hero for continuing his legacy. it is amazing to me that someone who has lost so much isn't as revenge-hungry as some of the other people that seem to want to, you know, go start, whoever,

wherever. a lot of this is about revenge i feel, especially having seen the faces of the people there and realizing that these are the farthest things from the enemy we could find. granted, the american bombing campaign has been i think even with the death toll in mac stated family and some of the other cases, i don't think that the u.s. government intended to bomb -- the carpet bombed the area. i'm still kind of figure out what is going on. on the one hand, the u.s. government did not intend to do this. on the other hand, i cannot believe they did it and who would make such a stupid mistake.

to be honest, i'm still a little confused about things. amy: your family left an area in kandahar where you come from and actually took refuge in a farmhouse so that they would not be bombed. >> the irony is the saddest part of this. in kandahar, they lived next to taliban-controlled building and they anticipated the u.s. was going to bomb those types of areas so they left the city and fled to a reall desert. we tk the same trip and it was about an hour and a half to two hours outside the city of kandahar. it was literally the middle of nowhere. we actually got lost getting out . it took us about three hours to find our way back to the main road. the irony is i left the area thinking they would be safe in this desert because there is no

television there. ironically, that is where they were hit. amy: when you went to the marine base in kandahar and asked them why they bond your family, what was their response? >> um, the arena i spoke to told me -- the marine i spoke to told me that particular group of marines had only been in kandahar airport after the incident so he did not have information for me. he told me i should speak to the state department post privately, some of the greens did express condolences. what shocked me was what i sensed coming from them was a sort of confusion about why they were there. i asked one of them why they were in kandahar, which is a valid question, why are you willing to risk your life here?

he said we are here to oust taliban the taliban. i looked at him and said, but the taliban have been in power since 1996. do you feel comfortable being here to oust the taliban? doesn't that sound odd? he cannot really answer my question. i could sense the discomfort he felt. it is scary there are people that will fight in the name of something they don't really understand. i love the united states. i grew up here. i came here at the age of five. i feel as american as anyone else. i would fight for my country gladly, but i don't know if the mission is really clear and if the intent is honorable.

amy: masuda, after the world trade center attacks occurred on september 11 and in all of the information or not information started to come out and it became clear the u.s. was making afghanistan a target, what were your feelings at the time? >> when september 11 happened and i watched this buildings collapsed and i thought about all this people like rita's brother, i was angry. i was angry just as any new yorker. my immediate feeling was, who are the jerksdo way responsiblee

united states was probably going to do something about that. guess what? osama is in afghanistan. that day i started making phone calls on september 11 to family here in new york to tell them to also call family back in afghanistan to sort of alert people to the fact this may happen. some of them did not think it would go that far. i said, oh, you're being too cautious. and as time and the events sort of unfolded, that is exactly what happened. something like this probly should not go unpunished, but who do we punish is really the question and how do we punish them. i don't think what the united

states is doing in afghanistan is really what they set out to do. in the beginning, i was hoping if they got the perpetrators in afghanistan, the people of afghanistan would finally be freed. they were also held hostage taliban and al qaeda, suffered at the hands of these people. and now again are suffering at the hands of these people who have come in and essentially my view al qaeda has taken control of afghanistan and now using it as their war zone. again, it is sort of what happened when the soviets invaded and it was the proxy work. amy: and your family members are not alive to enjoy the freedom if there will be. >> some of them have survived. it was really difficult -- i was

asked by a lot of people there, but my family and other people that have lost possessions and people in some of the bombings, what the united states was going to do about it. i thought about how september 11 funds were everywhere and how great that wasn't how much the american people opened their hearts to the victims of september 11. then i thought about -- and the united states government, as well. and then i thought about, what about these people who for some reason or other got caught in the middle of all of this, lost lives, less children, lost property? who do they ask for help? who do they turn to? amy: seems like rita lasar has taken up that banner with a few other people. and partially come your message does not get out very much in the mainstream media. stories of people like your brother comes heroes of the world trade center, are heard,

but then you take the next step and say, though you do not think that war is the answer. that is not the part of the story that we hear. "new york times" photographs of people who walk from washington to new york saying "not in our name and the photograph just that people are mourning their loved ones at the trade center pentagon. >> we are hoping by going to afghanistan, members who have lost their loved ones and showing that we understand that the people and afghanistan, as well as we, are mourning and hurting in our innocent just as my brother and i are innocent. we're hoping this will get more

coverage than it has, and we are hoping that just as masuda said, the september 11 fund was a generous -- more than generous acknowledgment of our loss, that there will be an equal afghanistan fund from the american people and from our government to help those people. amy: rita lasar and masuda sultan. speaking in democracy now! january 2002. rita died in 20. she lost her brother abe zelmanowitz in the world trade center attack and would become an active member of the september 11 families for peaceful tomorrows. masuda sultan was born in kandahar and lost 19 members of

her family and the u.s. bombing raid in afghanistan soon after the was attacked in october 2001. she would later write her memoir "my war at home."

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