al jazeera, tripoli. >> quick check of the headlines here on al jazeera. heads of state are addressing the un's general assembly in new york. keynote speeches warned about the coronavirus pandemic, afghanistan, and climate change. u.s. and chinese leaders both address the assembly on the first day. joe biden promised intensive diplomacy and an end to war. xi jinping said his nation would not do so. >> offenses and problems among

countries need to be handled through dialogue and cooperation on the basis of a look see and respect. one country partial success does not have to mean another country it's failure, and the world is big enough to accommodate common development and progress of all countries. we need to pursue dialogue and inclusiveness over confrontation and exclusion. >> the taliban asked to address world leaders at the un's general assembly this week. he has been named as the ethnic -- afghan ambassador to the united nations. the seat is contested by the representative of afghanistan's government, who was ousted last month. a committee will meet to decide who to accept as the u.n. ambassador. there has been condemnation after al jazeera video of u.s. border patrol agents pushing back migrants went viral. the un's top official says the

white house policy of deporting haitians could be in violation of international law. more people have been forced out of their homes after a new volcanic vent blew open one of spain's canary islands. rivers of love i have been flowing since another -- an eruption on sunday. homes have been destroyed. residents face threats from toxic gases, earthquakes, and acted rain. those are the headlines. the news continues here on al jazeera after "inside story." stay tuned. thanks for watching. goodbye for now. ♪ >> he was seen as a hero of the rwandan genocide.

but now he will spend the next 25 years in jail for terrorism. what led to the verdict and did his criticism of the president play a role? this is "inside story." hello and welcome to the program. for many, he is a hero. the former hotel manager saved the lives of more than 1002 people by giving them shelter during the 1994 rwandan genocide. the story was celebrated in the hollywood film hotel rwanda. since then, he has become one of the most vocal critics of president paul. the government accused him of being part of an armed group and he has been convicted and jailed 25 years for terrorism. rights groups and observers say it was designed to send a message to dissidents.

>> he refused to come to court to hear the verdict of his trial in rwanda's capital. he was charged with terrorism and related offenses. also caters said he was behind a series of attacks that happened in rwanda three years ago. >> with regard to paul, he is convicted of being a member of any legal group and participating in terror activities, acquitted of creating an illegal armed group. therefore, he is sentenced to 25 years imprisonment. >> he was flown from dubai last year against his will. rhonda government suggested he was deceived into boarding a plane it paid for. international legal observers say that was just the first of many problems with the trial. his family has rejected the

verdict. >> my father was tortured, kidnapped, denied his basic rights, and they gave him a guilty verdict. the coaccused came on the stand and said they had been forced and coerced and tortured into saying false things against my father, and witnesses are paid government agents. >> he was made famous by the hollywood film hotel rwanda. it told the story of how he saved hundreds of lives as a hotel manager during rwanda's 1994 genocide. he then fled into exile and became a vocal critic of rwanda's president. he pledged support for an opposition armed group. prosecutors said he also funded it and ordered attacks. he denied it. most of his coaccused led guilty and their statements were used as evidence against him. the other defendants are now being led onto the prison bus to be taken back to jail.

he has not left jail for the last six months because he has refused to participate in the court proceedings. all the defendants have the opportunity to appeal within the next 15 days. he and his supporters have completely rejected all of these legal proceedings to date. he is a belgian citizen and resident of the u.s. both governments criticized the trial. rwanda's government says justice is being delivered. if he serves the 25 year sentence, he will likely die as he is 67 years old. -- diane jail as he is 67 years old. >> the president is a polarizing figure. he is credited with developing the country and political stability after the genocide but accused of silencing opponents. south africa's investigators said his government was directly involved in the killing of one of his critics in johannesburg

in 2014. he has denied the accusations and any involvement in the unsolved murders of self oral rwandan -- dissident -- several rwandan dissidents. a former rwandan officer was shot in his home last week. let's bring in our guest, a rwandan government spokesperson and brian, director of african studies at loyola university chicago and senior advisor to the hotel rwanda foundation and in london, a publisher of africa briefing, a pan-african news magazine based in london. welcome to the program. i would like to begin in chicago. this was nothing more than a sham trial. >> thank you for having me on the program and unfortunately, i

completely agree. he was kidnapped by the rwandan government over a year ago last august. he was not kidnapped because of any criminal charges. he was taken because he has been a critic of that government for over 20 years now and they have harassed him over that time. a european parliamentarian said what fair trial process starts with a kidnapping? following the kidnapping, he was tortured for four days, held in solitary confinement over 250 days in violation of the un's nelson mandela rules for treatment of prisoners, and he has had limited or no access to his lawyers or legal documents. there was no fair trial ever intended in this case and as we clearly see from the pleadings and the result, no fair trial happened. >> this was just justice being served, wasn't it?

>> absolutely. the trial was conducted fairly and transparently, and the reports to the court were comprehensive. part of the evidence presented to the court consisted of files that were handed over to the rwandan prosecution from the belgian prosecution that searched his house in brussels. also presented in court was the testimony of the others who talked about what they had done together as well as victim testimonies, victims of the attacks in 2018 and 2019 in southwestern rwanda. >> it was fair, it was transparent, the evidence was presented in the way it should have been. why are you complaining? >> let me take it point by point. thank you for bringing it up. that is the classic answer of the rwandan government. the good news for us is that it

was transparent. the trial was very transparent. it was broadcast on youtube every day. and we were able to watch it with his family and legal team and we saw the unfairness unfold before our eyes. there was no compelling testimony. in fact, there was no reasonable testimony in any way, shape nothing resented that showed that he or any of the accused were guilty. he spokesperson mentioned the so-called belgian dossier. there was a dossier that came from belgium. it was an investigation that darted at the request of the rwandan government in 2019. the belgian government cooperated with them. they put together a long document. unfortunately for the rwandan government, they want us to believe this document is in some way going to indict him. in fact, we have read the document and there is nothing in it. there is nothing to the point that in july, the belgian

government began talking with his lawyer to tell him that they were about to close the case and nothing was going to happen. there was no evidence found that in any way could be used to indict him. the testimony of the coaccused, and there was a written testimony. he began this in person after person talked about their testimony when they came up on the stand and they said it was coerced. in his case, it was coerced at the end of four days of torture with no lawyer present. he was forced to sign a document. at least one of the coaccused said in court that he signed a document had not even read. his lawyer presented him with the document. most of the coaccused talked about the coercion that went into the written testimony and their verbal testimony, on the other hand, in open court, transparently, completely vindicated him and the others.

they say there was no connection. they did not know him. they did not know of the political party he is part of it until they went to jail. because the public -- the spokesperson brought it up, the victim's testimony was not testimony at all. we watched victim after victim. i'm sorry for these victims and their families. we watched victim after victim come up and they told us what they had lost. they gave us a story of troops that were unidentified that had attacked them or attacked their loved ones. they told us what property they had lost or the entries they have had. they never identified these troops. they never identified the coaccused, they never said any of these troops were part of the group that the rwandan government alleges committed these attacks. in fact, over the entire trial from february to july, zero

evidence was presented that these attacks even happened. there were pictures of some attacks. there were witnesses talking about some attack. it was only the prosecutor is telling us these attacks happened. >> what is your reaction? >> in addition to numerous records of conversations between the members planning the attacks in rwanda and how to take responsibility for them, western union and other institutions -- to the drc to buy weapons and supplies and conversations about the needs of the soldiers on the ground. there are conversations as well about him getting military updates from the ground. he was clearly in charge of this militia, promoting the officers, deciding who the spokespeople would be.

in addition, while all this was happening, they are still online for bbc radio. bragging about the attacks and taking responsibility. >> having a conversation with a journalist is not a crime. it is not a crime. having conversations with journalists is not a crime. having a conversation on whatsapp is not evidence of conspiracy. >> he was found guilty based on the evidence that was presented in court. >> jonathan, you have been hearing what our were to guess have been saying. clearly, this is a controversial trial with very controversial themes like having conversations with journalists. how much of the african imagination has this? >> the truth has been controversial indeed, yes. from where i am sitting as an

observer, i believe that he is on record. we talked on al jazeera. he set himself up openly. from what we gather, from the reports that we gathered, -- i am not a legal expert. i am just a journalist. from what we see, i would not

agree the trial was free and fair, ok? >> sorry, jonathan. we are cracking up. i want to put your point to yolanda. this has been a trial that has been watched by international observers. it was very important for rhonda to get these rights and be completely transparent yet you have been criticized by the belgian government, criticized by human rights organizations. is there any of those criticisms that you take on board? >> not at all. they had concerns that this trial would be free and fair. there is no one more interested in free and fair trial than we are. this trial was long. it took six months. it was meticulously carried out by the judges. the verdict that they came up with was based on the evidence that was presented including some open source -- open sources

, as our colleague in london is talking about. but this video, by his own admission, he was the leader of the flm. he called on people to support these young men and women and said that they would not leave there. they did not enter the forest to abandon it. they wanted to overthrow a legitimately elected government. he said this. >> with the evidence we have seen -- >> no government would tolerate terrorists. >> and no government should but that is not the question you're asking. it is the most crucial point of this case. a lot of it is political. this was about him saying that he was a critic of the government and that is what put him in their sites.

now, that is may be illegal, maybe not illegal. it depends on the country's constitution. it is clearly illegal to have that level of criticism in rwanda. from where you are sitting in london, you are critical of several regimes including rwanda. do you think you might be in the sides of the rwandan government like other dissidents have been? >> i am african. i'm not even british. sometimes, in my line of work, i have to be careful how i report certain events in africa for fear of my own skin. i will say that, look, --

>> sorry. it's a very important point you are making but we do not have a clear connection to you. brian, one of the themes, not just of this trial, but of the government is that he has been cracking down on dissidents. do you think that is a fair criticism of him? >> 100%. i have been working on issues in rwanda since 2007. it has only gotten worse since that time and please do not take my word for it. you mentioned international organizations, human rights watch, amnesty international, and others. the cleaning foundation has done an excellent job on trial monitoring on this case. they said this case is unfair. thank you for bringing it up. paul's case is not isolated. there have been thousands of victims over the past 10 decades. in the last five years ago,

there are groups that track these things. 300 people have been killed extra judicially inside and outside of the country by the rwandan government. thousands more have been arrested. we have some of the high-profile cases. he was a senior who was considered a dissident who was put in jail and then died under mysterious circumstanc. yvonne was a host wife who had enough and began to criticize him online and was warned to stop and when she did not stop, she was imprisoned. former government officials, some of the people i talked to on a regular basis, our people who were former members of his party. they were very highly placed. we know the stories of his former intelligence chief who was very close to him. after they fell out, he was assassinated in south africa.

>> let's put those points to yolanda. >> the evidence of his guilt in this case is clear. if anyone has evidence to the contrary, they should ring it up. instead, what other people are saying is -- this case -- what is most shocking about it is the total and complete removal of victims of these crimes. no one talks about the victims. these crimes are real. they happened in 2018 and 2019. two extremely brutal attacks of race in june and december 2018 in which nine people were killed including two children aged 13 and 17. these were devastating. this is completely ignored. their suffering is completely ignored.

as is the complicity of the 20 other codefendants just because one of the defendants -- 17 years ago. >> one of the reasons he is such a powerful figure in rwanda is because of these economic forms and because of his ability to manage the economy. we cannot go to you right now but we will go back to yolanda. i want to hear from you. give me a clear answer. this trial was undersized by human rights watch in the belgian government. can you admit that or do you think it was completely aboveboard? >> it was aboveboard. there is nothing preventing him

from assessing the case against him and defending himself. >> what do you think? >> absolutely. >> we rebuilt. countries from all over the world sent suspects and fugitives back to rwanda to be tried, including countries in europe. >> you have a lot of people disagreeing with you including our guest in chicago. brian, tell me, what is -- let me ask you a question. how much of what you are criticizing the government for is the classic criticism of african governments everywhere, that they are incapable of being fair? just because they are african? >> for me, it's not true at all because i have become a deep expert on rwanda and i know many other african countries. while there are issues in african countries, i honestly

believe his rwanda is a special case. this is a man who wants complete control over dissent inside of his country. while other leaders may want it, he has actually achieved it. examples are the things that yolanda is bringing up. they are patently on their face ridiculous. >> our guest in london is back. i want to put that point to him as well because we have not heard from him because of technical difficulties. jonathan, a simple question. he is insulated from a lot of the criticism within rwanda itself because he has been a success. some people have called him a benevolent dictator. how much does that mean he is untouchable? >> nobody is untouchable. let's consider rwanda's history. they had a genocide.

thousands of people were killed. this shapes people's minds and thinking and actions. ok? i'm not trying to be an apologist. in trying to prevent a similar tragedy -- yes. sometimes, i compare him to the first prime minister of singapore. see where singapore is today. [indiscernible] >> sorry, jonathan. we have lost you.

i want to leave the last point actually to you both. very simply, is there anything of each other's arguments? you say it's a sham. and you say it's a fair trial. is there anything you have heard from each other that might change your mind? >> absolutely not. i do not understand someone who -- he says he invented the genocide. he invented the genocide in which more than one million people died. anything else makes absolutely no sense. >> i do want to come to brian as well. your thoughts. >> to be clear, i never said anything like that. once again, it is made up by the rwandan government. my base thought is that if their system is so fair, why did they not try extradition? the united states has extradited

rwandans back. that is something i agree with yolanda on. she mentioned that. why did they kidnap the man instead of trying extradition? why are they holding him from his lawyers and not allowing his lawyers to see him? why did they torture him on his arrival? none of these things suggest there was any chance of a fair trial. a fair legal system would have put the evidence to the united states where he was living at the time and to say please send this man to us. the u.s. and belgium have cooperated with rwanda in the past. there was never an attempt at cooperation. they jumped straight to kidnapping a humanitarian because he is a dictatorship. >> i want to thank all of our guests. i want to thank you for watching. you can see the program anytime by visiting our website. for further discussion, go to our facebook page.

you can also join the conversation on twitter. for me on the whole team, goodbye for now.

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