09/29/21 09/29/21 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> will you hold the line, speaker pelosi? will you hold the line? amy: house progressives and activists are calling on speaker nancy pelosi to hold and bring out the wench way dollars bipartisan infrastructure bill and the $3.5

trillion build back better together to the floor. we will look at what is in the bill with david dayen, who is working with the intercept and the daily poster to keep a running count of where progressive votes stand and we will speak with the reverend dr. william barber of the poor people's campaign asking for a meeting with the white house to put a face on the urgent needs of this moment. >> it is about understanding the reason we have to do it is we have to investor properly. we put $21 trillion into war since 9/11, and now somewhat to block a compromise of just over three dollars trillion over 10 years? the cost is too high. amy: then to germany where the central party put an end to the 16 year era of angela merkel's conservative leadership. what this means for europe and the world with yanis varoufakis,

former finance minister of greece who negotiated with merkel and international creditors in 2015 when they demanded harsh new austerity measures for a european bailout of greece, largely at merkel's behest. >> our government won the election, among -- say no to them. we're not accepting any more of your toxic levels. amy: all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. on capitol hill, house progressives say they will hold the line and oppose the $1 trillion bipartisan

infrastructure bill after house thursday speaker nancy pelosi said she would seek a vote thursday on the measure separately from the build back better act, the $3.5 trillion, 10-year bill that expands the social safety net and combats climate change. activists from people's watch and sunrise movement are demonstrating in d.c. this week to pressure pelosi and democrats to pass the measure through reconciliation. activists confronted pelosi tuesday evening as she headed into a fundraiser. close need to pelosi, will you hold the line on the reconciliation built for climate justice, for california? will you hold the line eight winco -- we hold the line? amy: meanwhile, president biden met tuesday with conservative democratic senators kyrsten sinema and joe manchin, who receive major donations from financial institutions, fossil fuel companies, and other industries who oppose the spending package. in italy, climate activists spoke at the "youth for climate" conference in milan. this is ugandan activist vanessa nakate. >> historically, africa is responsible for only 3% of global emissions, and yet

africans are already suffering some of the most brutal impacts fueled by the climate crisis. rapidly intense hurricanes, floods, withering droughts. many africans are losing their lives while countless more have lost their lives. amy: greta thunberg addressed the inaction by world leaders in her address. >> this is not about some expensive politically correct green act were blah blah blah. build back better blah blah blah. green ecomy blah blah blah. ms. zero by 2050, blah blah blah [captioning made possible by democracy now!] climate neutral blah blah blah. this is all we hear from our

so-called leaders, words that sound great but so far have led to no action. our hopes and dams drowned in their empty words and promises. amy: in related news, a new study publishein the journal "scice" found that a child bo in 2021 wl experien on erage sen timeas many at was, twices many wildfires, and nearly tee times amany drough, crop flures, and rir floodss their granarents. the effects of the climate crisis will be far worse for children born in poorer nations. top military officials acknowledged the strategic failure of the u.s. withdrawal from afghanistan after a failed 20 year war. this is defense secretary lloyd austin speaking before the senate armed services committee. >> the fact the afghan army that we and our partners trained simply melted away, in many cases without firing a shot,

took us all by just -- a surprise. amy: general mckenzie, head of u.s. central command and mark milley, chair of the joint chiefs of staff, said they recommended keeping a small force of 2500 troops in afghanistan, an apparent contradiction of statements given by president biden earlier this year, who said no one had recommended he keep u.s. troops in afghanistan beyond the withdrawal deadline. senators also questioned mark milley about recent reports he circumvented the official chain of command in order to prevent possible actions from former president trump. namely war with china. milley said senior military leaders were aware he communicated with his chinese counterparts to assure them the u.s. was not planning an attack. >> i know, i am certain that president trump did not intend to attack the chinese. and it is my directed responsibility and it was my directed responsibility by the secretary to convey that intent to the chinese.

my task at that time was to de-escalate. amy: pfizer-biontech said tuesday they submitted data to the food and drug administration showing their vaccine to be safe and effective in children aged 5 to 11. an oicial reest for the vaccine to be given to children will be made in the coming weeks. an fda official previous said an authozation cld come n a maer oweeks, n months" and about 2million.s. ildren bween 5 and 11 uld becomeligible r the sh if apoved. pfizer hot askedor emerncy use thorizatn yet. federal dge has mporaril blked soutcarolin's statewe ban onchool ma mandat. the lu of soh caroli ared the b puts stents th cerin disabities at significant sk. eaier this week in arizona, a judge will the states ban a public school mask mandates was unconstitutional. an international coronavirus news, cuba has begun delivering its three-dose abdala vaccine to

vietnam and venezuela. last week cuba asked the world health organization to review and approve its homegrown abdala and soberana dos vaccines. russia reported its highest daily covid death toll tuesday, with over 850 fatalities, amid a new surge. syria health officials warn hospitals are overwhelmed as the war-torn nation deals with its worst surge the since the start of the pandemic. as of last week, just over 1% of the population was fully vaccinated. japan will lift its state of emergency thursday for the first ti in almost six months, as the numberf new cases and deaths have been decreasing. in other news from japan, former foreign minister fumio kishida is poised to become the country's next prime minister after winning a leadership race for the ruling liberal democratic party. the outgoing prime minister yoshihide suga has faced widespread criticism over his mishandling of the pandemic, announced his resignation last

month after less than a year in power. a representative of hiroshima, kishida has campaigned for the abolition of nuclear weapons though has defended japan's policy of not signing on to the treaty on the prohibition of nuclear weapons, citing japan's reliance on the extended nuclear deterrence provided by the u.s., a long-time ally. an independent investigation found over 80 alleged cases of sexual abuse and assault at the hands of aid workers in the democratic republic of congo during the ebola outbreak between 2018 and 2020. 20 of those involved world health organization employees. dozens of survivors spoke to investigators. among the accounts -- nine allegations of rape, sexual harassment, and intimidation by superiors at work, and the promise of favors in exchange for sex. on tuesday, who director-general tedros adhanom ghebreyesus offered an apology to survivors. >> i am sorry. i am sorry for what was done to

you a people who were employed by who to serve and protect you. i'm sorry for the ongoing suffering that this event must cause. i'm sorry that you have had to relive them in talking to the commission about your experiences. amy: in haiti, elections planned for november have been postponed until 2022 after prime minister ariel henry dismissed the electoral council amid the country's mounting political and humanitarian crises. meanwhile, the biden administration is continuing its mass expulsion of haitian asylum seekers, deporting over 4000 haitians in the past 10 days. in germany, berlin residents voted in a referendum to seize back some 240,000 apartments from corporate landlords in an effort to combat gentrification and soaring rents. the measure, though not binding, would see the municipal

government buy back housing from powerful landlords or real estate companies that own more than 3000 units and turn the units into affordable public housing. the european court of justice issued a ruling today annulling two trade deals between the european union and morocco that included fishing and agricultural products from the western sahara, a territory occupied by morocco since 1975. this is the third time that the court has struck down trade deals between morocco and the bloc, ruling that western sahara cannot be part of the eu's trade deal with morocco without the express consent of the people of the territory. in maryland, a judge sentenced jarrod ramos, the gunman who stormed the capital gazette newsroom on june 28, 2018, and murdered five people, to five life sentences without parole, along with two other life sentences. survivors of the attack and bereaved family members testified before tuesday's sentencing. capital gazette photographer and

survivor of the mass shooting, paul gillespie, spoke outside the courthouse. >> i don't think there is ever going to be any closure. i lost five of my family members. i was almost killed myself. it is something that haunts me every day. i think about this and what happened to me and my capital gazette family. amy: arizona, a federal judge has temporarily banned a key portion of a new sweeping anti-abortion law that would make it a felony for doctors to terminate pregnancies due to a fetal genetic defect, such as down syndrome. the court denied a request to block another part of the law that classifies fetuses, embryos, and fertilized eggs as people startg at the point of conception. and in chile, lawmakers have approved debate on legislation that would expand access to abortions. chilean reproductive justice advocates are celebrating what is a first step toward the south american nation decriminalizing the procedure.

this comes as thousands of women took to the streets across latin america tuesday demanding the legalization of abortion. yesterday marked international safe abortion day. this is a protester in el salvador. >> our country has a high rate of pregnancies, growth in adolescence. it shows that the sexual abuse, lack of protection for children. they are forced to continue with their pregnancies in cruel conditions and they ha to put aside their live projects. it is a violation of the rights of girls and adolescents. amy: over 20 latin american countries still ban abortions without exception, including el salvador, where women have been sentenced to decades in prison and accused of homicide even in cases where they've had miscarriages and other obstetric emergencies. and those are some of the helines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war d peace report. i'm amy goodman in new york, joined by my co-host juan gonzález in new brunswick, new jersey. hi, juan. juan: hi, amy. welcome to all of our listeners

and viewers from around the country and around the world. amy: president biden canceled a trip to chicago today so he can stay in washington, d.c., as crucial negotiations continue on the bipartisan infrastructure deal and the build back better act. house progressives are saying they will hold the line and oppose the $1 trillion infrastructure bill after house speaker nancy pelosi said she would seek a vote thursday on the measure without a commitment to also pass the build back better act, the $3.5 trillion, 10-year bill that expands the social safety net and combats climate change. the chair of the progressive caucus, congressmember pramila jayapal, issued a statement that -- "this agenda is not some fringe wish list. it is the president's agenda, the democratic agenda, and what we all promised voters when they

delivered us the house, senate and white house." activists from people's watch and sunrise movement are demonstrating in d.c. this week to pressure house speaker pelosi and democrats to pass the measure through reconciliation. a flotilla of activists took to kayaks and electric boats to demonstrate near senator joe manchin's houseboat in d.c., demanding, "don't sink our bill." others confronted pelosi tuesday night as she headed into a fundraiser. >> antipode lucy, will you hold the line on the reconciliation bill, for climate justice, for california? amy: meanwhile, president biden met tuesday with conservative democratic senators kyrsten sinema and joe manchin, who receive major donations from financial institutions, fossil fuel companies, and other industries that oppose the

spending package. we begin with david dayen, executive editor of the american prospect. he is working with the intercept and the daily poster to keep a running count of where progressive the stand. he has written a piece "pelosi tries to bulldoze progressives on the infrastructure bill: but she claims it must pass to avoid an expiration of highway funding. that's just not true." he also wrote about how the "interlocking crises in congress have simple solutions." his latest book, "monopolized: life in the age of corporate power." welcome back to democracy now! tell us what you believe is true . and for people who are not following closely what is happening in washington, layout the two bills and then talk about what is being proposed to vote on tomorrow and what isn't. >> sure. the bill that will get a vote

tomorrow or at least that is the theory is the bipartisan infrastructure bl which wa negotiated by centrists, democrats, and republicans. $500 billion of new spending on infrastructure over eight years. that includes things like highways and bridges and broadband and electric grid and resiliency from the ravages of climate change and a few other things. about half the level of what joe biden proposed when he put out the american jobs plan back in march. so it is kind of a half measure. it was negotiated by democrats and republicans and it is seen as a must-have for the conservative end of the democratic caucus. the build back interact, which -- build back better act really

could be best described as the democratic board. this is a massive expansive will . because there are seven elements, it is hard to explain. it includes ways to reduce the cost of living, which the biggest drivers of the cost of living -- housing, educati, health care. it has a massive investment into care economy. so you have subsidies for child care such that nobody in america would pay more than 7% of their income. you have massive subsies for eldercare for allowing people to age in place and stay-at-home. there's a paid family and medical leave program. the biggest climate bill that congress will have ever passed. i'm leaving things out, the child tax credit expansion we saw this year in the american rescue plan would be extended for another four years. juan: it also includes

assiance forollege education? >> yes. free tuition for community colleges and universal prekindergarten, expansive pell grant. it is a major education bill, a major climate bill, major health care bill that would expand medicare and medicaid. it is a major care economy bill. like i said, it is kind of a democratic platform. that is why progressives are so interested in getting that past. what pelosi has done, i mean, the whole idea for months was those bills would be linked so that the moderates the caucus would get something they want, which is the bipartisan infrtructure bill, and progressives would get something they want, which is this build back better act. pelosi over the last few days has delinked those bills.

because they can't even get in someone's of an agreement from joe manchin and kyrsten sinema, alysia said, ok, let's pass this now and we will work on the build back better act, which only needs democratic votes because it is being done by reconciliation. we will pass that later. this is what progressives are rebelling against. they do not want to lose their leverage. they figure if they pass the bipartisan infrastructure bill, then the centrists and moderates in the caucus will want nothing to do with the build back better act and will only get this bill that is partially directed by republicans. so that is the issue. as you mentioned the whip count. we have listed 24 democratic embers of congress in the house who will not vote for the infrastructure bill without a reconciliation bill. there is also a private conference call with the

congressional progressive caucus yesterday. we are told to dozen of people spoke up on the call. all of them were opposed and 10 of those people were not on our whip count list. you could have as much is members voting no at this point and even that might not be accurate. juan: is't part of e problem that manchin and sinema, while they are posing the supporting e $3.5 trillion in the senate, refused to say what they would support? almost like there is the democrats are negotiating with themselves but don't actually have the position of one side. >> that is exactly right. they are negotiating with the phantom. manchin and sinema have been asked multiple occasions by the president himself, what will you accept? give me a topline number. give me spending number you will accept. they are refusing to engage.

they are refusing to say what they would be for in this bill. you cannot proceed to negotiatns without getting at least some framework of a topline number. so progressives say, we're not going to pass the infrastructure bill without specifics from manchin and sinema and mention and sinema are saying we are not going to give you specifics until you pass the structure bill. there is a complete impasse here. juan: i was going to ask him the same time there juggling these two potatoes, there are two other potatoes that congress is dealing with, the need to has a legislation extending government funding by thursday and also the debt ceiling. could you talk about how that plays into these other issues? >> yeah, well, more on congres'' plate. it looks like there will be a

continuingesolution to fund the government that is going to get action in the house and senate today. i fully expect that continuing resolution will pass and we will have government funding extended i believe until december 3. the debt limit is the problem. republicans in the senate have said they're not going to give votes to pass the debt limit. the democrats should do it themselves, they could do it through reconciliation -- which is a process that only requires 50 votes. democrats feel like the spending was built up through the trump administration and republicans should be involved in it. this is a ridiculous love to begin with. the idea that money that is already spent, that you have to make a lot to raise the debt ceiling so you can borrow to pay the bills y have already run up? there are a lot of ways we could st get rid of this thing. the 14th amendment says the public that shall not be questioned.

there's reason to believe the debt limit law is unconstitutional. there's a strange law that says the treasury can meant a trillion dollar coin and use that to offset borrowing authority for short-term period. whatever needs to be done to end this hostagetaking of the credit of the united states needs to be done. if democrats are going to do this on their own, they need to find a way to do it permanently so that we are not in this ever again. amy: we're going to go to break and come back to this discussion. david dayen is the executive editor of the american prospect. he has written the piece "pelosi tries to bulldoze progressives on the infrastructure bill: but she claims it must pass to avoid an expiration of highway funding. that's just not true." stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "carnival of souls" by combustible edison. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. we continue to look at the high-stakes negotiations unfolding on capitol hill as house progressives say they will hold the line and oppose the $1 trillion bipartisan infrastructure bill after house speaker nancy pelosi said she would seek a vote on the measure thursy, tomorrow, without a commitment to also pass the $3.5 trillion build back better act, 10-year bill that expands the social safety net and combats climate change. on monday, congressmember ilhan omar responded to the recent delay of the infrastructure vote on twitter. she said -- "the whip count was right, we aren't bluffing. when the bills are up in tandem and we will put our votes on the

board, that's the deal." david dayen is executive editor of the american prospect. he is following this extremely closely. i want to ask about the power of the progressive caucus, what this means. do you think nancy pelosi will put off this boat? even how manchin and sinema are talked about, talked about as centrist or moderate democrats as opposed to conservative or corporate democrats. you have, for example, joe manchin, chair of the energy panel, the largest senate recipient of campaign donations from the oil, coal, and gas industries. and then you have the headline yesterday on arizona democratic senator kyrsten sinema holding fundraiser with five business lobbying groups that oppose the massive spending bill containing

some of the biden administration's top legislation priority's according to "t new york times" which reported the attendees were being asked to pay up to $5,800 to senator sinema campaign saying she opposed the spending bills price tag of $3.5 trillion and also increasing tes on wealthy individuals and corporations in order to expand the social safety net, improve worker rights, and combat the climate crisis. so she goes back and forth from the white house to the fundraiser, david dayen. >> yh, i mean, this is about as close to quid pro quo corruption as you can possibly get. sitting there with business groups who are opposed to this bill. yeah, i think corpote democrats is probably the way to do it. one thing that is very teresting, front-line members -- the house members that are in swing seats, which are at most risk in the next election,

they support the build back better act because it gives tangible results to their community. it has not in these swing seat democrats who have been the problem here. it is more democrats receive a lot of corporate funding, who oppose elements of the bill or in the case of manchin and sinema, seem to oppose all of the bill --ctually, we don't know because they won't say. they have frozen the process. this is a very interesting moment with respect to the progressive caucus, though, amy, because traditionally, pelosi has been able to find votes on her left. she has forced the democrats in the progressive caucus to take whatever they can get. and this is a rare moment of activism for the progressive caucus. they have held the line. they have put a lot of credit -- credibility into this idea that we're only going to go in tandem

to pass the entire biden agenda. this was a deal cooked up by pelosi and chuck schumer and joe biden. they said, we're going to do a two track process and progressives are holding them to it. this really is a major moment i think for the progressive caucus for the credibility, for their viability, and to show they are a force in congress. juan: david, how could the results of what happens in the next week shape the outcome of elections in 2022 and 2024? also, how do you judge president biden's direct involvement here in terms of him being able to show he is a president who after so many years in congress, in the senate can be able to get

the legislative body to act according to his policy -- to his wishes? >> like i said, if you talk to front-line members, they will tell you they need this build back better act in order to have a shot in 2022. democrats have to show they can govern. the way they can do that is by getting things on the books tha are tangible, that deliver immediate results. exec the child tax credit. $3600 for children under six for all families. $3000 for kids between the ages of six and 17. expanding medicaid to cover dental and hearing and vision benefits. expanding the subsidies of the affordable care act and for states that have not expanding medicaid giving those individuals that fall into that medicaid cap the ability to access health care. these are things that these front-line members are absolutely crucial. as far as biden is concerned, he

is been sort of to gingerly engage. he has that meeting with manchin a sinema. he is been frustrated by not being able to get any kind of results out of them. this really is a moment where presidents do have to leave. it is unclear exactly what leverage he might have over manchin and sinema, who see themselves as the corporate free agents, but whatever stops he needs to pull out he needs to do it now. because not only does it threaten his majority of congress in 2022, but it threads the ability for democrats to win the white house in 2024. amy: juan, we're looking at the biden agenda today and i would ask you something about "the washington post" reported on today on puerto rico's medicaid funding.

quietly the biden administration interpreted language from recent laws providing dollars for the territories medicaid programs. this is the governor of puerto rico speaking in june with members of congress as well as white house officials to discuss the island's medicaid program as -- medicaid program. >> right now i am in washington, d.c., meeting with members of the congress, meeting with white house officials. that ishe first topic of conversation. we have a medicaid program in puerto rico, but we don't have the same treatment that the states get across the nation.

right now the funding we are getting, most of it, ends september 30. we call it a medicaid cliff. congress will have to address this because our health program will collapse if it doesn't. that is unfortunate. we should have either a permanent participation in this program or equal basis as the state or ateast lonterm funding, a 10 year deal so that we can budget for this and we can provide basic health services that a lot of our population needs. amy: so that was governor pedro pierluisi. if you can explain what is going on right now. juan: this is a long-running problem. it has been in existence for decades. is that the territories of the

united states, which puerto rico is by far the largest and most important, are always funded when it comes to entitlement programs like medicaid -- and even additionally, with social security disability or ssi. at levels far less in the 50 states. and this is only made possible by supreme court decisions that go way back to the early 1900s, the insular cases that basally say the.s. citizens on these territories are not really part of the united states -- congress can thereby legislate differently for them. i would like to ask david, because this is part of the continuing resolution that you say will hopefully be passed today, the biden administration is trying to equalize at least the medicaid funding for puerto rico. do you have any sense whether it will be success in the continuing resolution?

>> what the biden administration did is through their administrative authority and actually took action on this to increase the amount available for the food stamp program on a per-person basis. they have done some things ministry to vliet that lightened the burden and increased help, but one big problem is all of this tied to pandemic really. what we have seen is the willingness on the part of the administration and the part of congress to allow pandemic relief to roll off. we saw this with the eviction moratorium which was then reinstated with the supreme court overturned it. we saw this with unemployment benefits, the extension of those which expired on september 6. there are more programs like paid leave, which was in on a mper he bases, going to expire on the 30. in addition to the funding for the territories like puerto rico. this is a larger problem.

the pandemic relief slowly fading weight despite the fact we are still 5 million jobs down from where we were before the pandemic, bus -- despite the fact there is a lot of need and despite the fact in the case of the territory, this is a historical and equity that does require some congressional action. i'm not sure exactly whether that gets fixed in the continuing resolution. i know the biden administration is looking to see if there are steps they can take on their own authority to remedy this. amy: finally, david dayen, if you can talk about what people should be watching out for today and how can people weigh in >> call your member of congress. we are looking like we're going to have a boat. as you know, there is a three vote arjun for democrats in congress. there are a hemphill of republicans that are likely to

vote for this -- handful of republicans are likely to vote for this infrastructure bill, but probably not more than 10. if there are at least 13 or 15 or even 20 members among democrats and progressives were going to vote against this bill, it is not likely to pass step so this idea they stand with the deal that was made, that would threaten the bill. by the way, it would not kill the bill forever, it would just say, look, we're not going to vote for this until there is a deal on everything. if the progressives do have enough votes to stop it on thursday, i suspect negotiations will continue and eventually, if they get to a deal, then both bills wl pa. amy: thank you for being with us, david dayen, executive editor of the american prospect. his latest piece, "pelosi tries

to bulldoze progressives on the infrastructure bill: but she claims it must pass to avoid an expiration of highway funding. that's just not true." he also wrote about how the "interlocking crises in congress have simple solutions." his latest book, "monopolized: life in the age of corporate power." next up, we will be talking about the german elections with the centerleft social democratic party declared victory in sunday's election, putting an end to the 16 year reign of angela merkel's conservative leadership. we will speak with yanis varoufakis, former finance minister of greece, who negotiated with merkel and international creditors years ago when they demanded harsh new austerity measures for the european bailout of greece. we will also talk about the new military deal between the united states, australia, and britain and what greece has to do with that. and we will talk about the climate and more. stay with us.

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amy: "excess" by tricky. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. as we turn now to germany, where the center-left social democratic party narrowly claimed victory in an election that puts an end to the 16-year era of angela merkel's leadership. merkel's party, the christian democrats, won the second most votes, with the green party coming in third. social democrats will now have to form a ruling coalition which could take weeks, or possibly months. the sdp's candidate for chancellor, olaf scholz, who positioned himself as a leader in the vein of merkel during his campaign, vowed to tackle the climate crisis and modernize industry. for more on what this means for europe and the world, we are joined in greece by yanis varoufakis, member of the greek parliament and former finance minister of greece. he negotiated with chancellor

merkel and international creditors in 2015 when they demanded harsh new austerity measures for european bailout of greece. largely at merkel's has. although some points, yanis varoufakis was excluded from the negotiations. his latest book is titled "another now." if you can first talk about what has happened in germany, what it means for greece and for the world. >> it is good to be back, amy. thank you. not much has changed. let's not hyperventilate about the great changes. point number one come angela merkel was not defeated. she's the first gman chance in the postwar era that has not been defeated. she reside. she is going home.

point number one. point number two, the previous administrations, at least the st two, were just agents of so-called ant coalitions between the christian democrats and the social democrats. it is not as if [indiscernible] democrats coming into gornment. olaf scholz is to be chancellor if this comes to fruition, he was finae minister. let's take down a few notches all of the hype about the great changes we're going to see in germany. the other point, which is very important -- two points, if,, y, brief ones. firstly, historically, and 2010, first practiced in 2009 first

practiced, put into place in germany in 2009, 2008, by the social democrats themselves. they were the inventors of austity and they practiced it ruthlessly in germany. finally, the point i need to make, whoever is in this government and needs this government, this government is going to ctain for the first time in ages the so-called free democratic -- free democrats of germany, which is very strong asteria in, right wing libertarian party and they are going to exact a pound of flesh from the social democrats or the christian democrats or the greens, whoever joins them up. there price for joining the government will be is this as usual.

juan: yanis varoufakis, you argued that merkel's austerity policies condemned europe and germany to decline. could you expand on that? >> happily. remember the lehman brothers? the great financial meltdown of 2008? very soon after that, angela meel fou out to her disbelief that thgerman banks were also bankrupt. and so were the french banks. so were all the banks in the european union, including the british ones. they had to salvage them, like president obama did in the united states except unlike president obama, their paeans had given up on having a central bank, a national central bank.

so they affected a cynical transfer of -- print the money, which is what timothy geithner barack obama did in the united states. instead of doing that, they transferred their losses under the shoulders of the weakest taxpayers, which were greeks and so on. so you had socialism for the very few, the bankers, and harsh austerity for everyone else. notches the greeks, but the germans, spanish. what happens? the banks are constantly being given money. the masses there's austerity. big business looks at the little people and says, oh, they will not be able afford the equivalent of a german -- so they don't invest.

so investment is very low. the polity jobs disappear. there replaced by there's there replaced by the gig economy. your discontent, low levels of investment in the places that are religious like germany and on existed investment in places like greece. this is where i was trying to make the point in the articles you kindly mentioned that angela merkel leaves the chancellery, the office of prime minister of germany, much stronger than she inherited because of the crisis. she leaves germancomplete and replete and flip economic services. she also leaves it with low levels of investment and effectively condemned to be falling behind china and the united states when it comes to the things humanity and europeans will be needed in the next few years, which is green

energy, artificial intelligence, high-tech companies that can combine the green transition with some degree of shared prosperity. juan: i want to ask about another issue that merkel's legacy, the issue of immigration. we are seeing new images again not just in the united states of patients and central americans at the border, but once again in southern europe of 600 asylum seekers yesterday in one vote in italy, huge increase in those escaping from africa and the middle east, to europe. greece, obviously, has been dealing with this. merkel was distinguished among the leaders initially by welcoming hundreds of thousands of migrants into germany when other countries were trying to close their borders.

your sense of her legacy in terms of migration policy and how migration is affecting europe given the fact these imperial powers keep waging wars, disrupting these countries, creating chaos, and then insisting that migrants cannot come into europe? >> yes, yes, you're so right. such hypocrisy when the taliban moved into coble and t liberal press the united states and european union were horrified by the side of the taliban taking over and all of these concerns about liberal aggressive ghans, especially women. at theery same time, are great and good leaders, the same ones who are limiting the success of the talin, they started talking abo raising the height of the fences there building to turn europe into a fortres

europe most of not one mention of letting the afghan women that are being persecuted by tela been committed to going backo your question about merk's legacy when it comes to immigration. look, there was a keyword in your question. in 2015, the summer when the syrian refugees came srming in, running ay from the civil war in syria, initial response was great. even tweeted. i'm not a political ally of angela merkel. i said in my tweet i am proud to be european because of angela merkel. she said, "let them in." she let one million people in. but immediately, her pragmatism kicks in. conservative party was about to eat her alive, to put it blunt

-- not too bluntly, i hope. within two weeks, she reversed course. so that initial response shows the woman is probably -- but within two wks, she spoke to mr. again -- erdogan. effectively, the european union, angela merkel's guidance, bribed with a few billion euros that president of turkey, the turkish government, to allow the european union to violate international law -- not to allow refugees. refugees on these ramshackle boats that end up on lesbos, the greek islands, don't have the right to seek asylum because merkel and erdogan agreed use ago, with the approval of my formal conrad after i resigned,

the french, italians, so forth, agreedurkey is a safe country and therefore, no refugees from syria, afghanistan, from wherever has the right to file an application for refugee state. this is absolutely preposterous. he of the initial reaction that is good and th you have what has been happening the last few years. [indiscernible] last week, two weeks ago, the concentration camp a prison camp was built wi european union money. on the one hand, you have those who are waxing lyrical about a because those refugees used to live in tents and those would be washed away whenever there was a

wintry storm or rain, heavy rain lling. suddenly, they had decent dwellings. they even had a restaurant and wi-fi. what they forget to mention is there's also barbed wire surrounding them. so these people can stay in there for years for having committed the crime of coming to europe to seek refugee status. amy: very quickly, yanis varoufakis, you're speaking to us from a greek island so we are having a little trouble with the skype. thank you all for bearing with us. he tweeted on tuesday, -- "at a time when the u.s. and france are competing on which of the two will undermine peace in the pacific more effectively, the greek prime minister is pushing greece further into debt bondage by purchasing french frigates -- with a nod from biden so as to placate macron. greece deserves better!"

of course, talking about this new military alliance to marginalize china, aukus, many are asking if it is really biden creating a new cold war with china. he makes a deal with u.k. and australia, $65 billion nuclear powered subs, and is cut france out. they felt stabbed in the back. so france is making a deal with greece, further militarizing world. your thoughts? >> i am ever so depressed. we are not learning any lessons from the past. u put it quite rightly. there is a sordid arms race, arms deal race happening in the pacific. the french want to make some money. the americans come in and the

french are cut out of the al. the french get seriously peeved. this is all happening supposedly in order to increa security and the pacific. it is doing exactly the opposite. the chinese are simply going to respond to these arms race by upping the ante, building of their own new their subs. new their subs are a waste in any case. we live in a technological world where we have transparent oceans. these old-fashioned nuclear submarines, another here nor there. they're not increasing security. if anything, they increase insecurity. but there's a lot of money to be made. the french want to make money, united states once to make should their mates get the deal from australia. president biden decides to throw present macron a few pieces of

bread to pacify him, to give the green light to the great prime minister to buy three or four brigades from the french gornment -- exactly what are they going to contribute to our security? yes, we have a problem with turkey. we have a turkish regime traditionally ask imperialistic late when it wants to solidify its own foundering base within turkey because it is a dictatorship and our turkish comrades, democratic comrades are suffering under it was not so whenever the turkish government feels unsafe, it creates tension. but how ectly is this going to help? by this i mean a few more high-tech frigates thagreece is going to buy from france, using what? more debt. you mentioned i was the finance minister at the height of the greek debt crisis. let me stated, back then

whenever -- including the uned states, was covered the greek crisis compared to gdp ratio was something like 170%. 150%, 170%. today, more than twice, 210%, 212% still they are pouring mey fr european union to pacify micron in terms of what he lost in the pacific. oceans and seas are becoming less secure and more prone to conflicts that will only have victims amongst the worki classes of china, australia, the united states, greece, turkey, france. amy: if you could talk about why you named your book "another

now"? >> because i'm a leftist. we leftist have a problem, especially those of us critical capital or against capitalism because the obvious question then comes or is thrown at us -- and a fair question -- if you don't like capitalism, what is the alternative? how could we have organized society, thwhole thing? differently without capitalism? i decided to write a novel, political science fictn novel in which i imagine the 2008 great nancial collapse led to not just occupy wall street, but global movement with some degree of realism built another now. and thank you for being with us. we will ask you to stay so we can have a further conversation about "another now" and it at democracynow.org. yanis varoufakis, member of the greek parliament and former finance minister of greece.

we will link to his latest piece. his new book is titled "another now." happy birthday paul powell! democracy now! is currently accepting applications for two positions, a director of finance and administration and a human reso#

"newsline," i'm catherine kobayashi in new york. u.s. leaders spent 20 years on an exercise in nation building and democracy. a month ago they ended up pulling their troops out of afghanistan. those whoversaw the final months there have admitted in congress that the war was a strategic failure. >> we helped build a state but we could not forge a nation.