of a new one, chancellor merkel retires after 16 years. what is next and how will her successors take on the challenges facing germany and the eu? this is inside story. ♪ welcome to the program.

for 16 years, angela merkel steered jordan -- germany through economic meltdowns, refugee crises and a pandemic but her time is come to an end. all of shells -- olaf scholz takes over. he says his government will focus on working with democracies including the u.s. and he has promised to strengthen the european union but the incoming leader faces a number of challenges, rising covid infections, climate tensions and that's climate change and china. first, dominic kane angela merkel's legacy. 44 -- >> four times she won the election and using a leadership style based in the center. when the berlin wall fell, a different chancellor brought her

into government where she thrived in when a scandal engulfed him she engineered his departure with the ruthlessness which saw her first come party leader and chancellor in 2005. >> she was underestimated by her rivals. they talked about the way and the means they would come to power, but angela merkel followed the logic of party politics. >> the crisis propelled into the international stage where her star rose as she helped broker bailouts for europe's ailing economies and cemented her position as a german leader the world's president and prime minister wanted to be seen with. it would shake people's faith in her. when refugees from syria civil war began arriving on europe's dear step -- doorstep, she opened borders, more than one

million came. members of her own party disagree with her policy. her poll ratings suffered and the far right party thrived. many wondered if she was becoming a lame-duck but then came the coronavirus. and as infection and mortality rates rose across europe, so did michael's resolve. -- angela merkel's result. x europe's economy is shaken. human rights have had to be massively restricted to an extent unprecedented for our democracies. these are decisions among the most difficult in my term as chancellor. >> her pragmatism meant giving grants to ailing european economies. >> she was brilliant at managing crises, but not in a visionary way. there is hardly a project i could link to her saying this is where she actually implemented

whatever topic we are discussing , a great idea. it is more that she managed to get through the crisis. >> but covid was a crisis she could not manage her way through alone. in her last days, record highs, now she had to give way to the incoming government leaders who vetoed her proposed lockdown. and as parliament to liberates, she is a spectator, looking on as the man who replaces her two having styled himself as a male merkel. >> let us bring in our guest to talk about this in berlin. a professor of political science at stanford university in berlin. from brussels, rebecca, a nonresident fellow at the independent think tank, and in

london we have the chair of applied political science at coventry university and the author of angela merkel's biography. a warm welcome to all of you. so if i could start with you you are where is all happening. what can we expect from this new german government? >> the new coalition won the election with the promise they will do things differently from marco -- angela merkel. the promise to be a reformed team and they stand for their selling points, social democrats for social justice, environmentalists, the green for climate change and the liberals are more business oriented economic priorities. and they all promised this will be progress, whatever that means . but what we see in the elections is that the appetite for reform

is -- which for a party that has been in power for most of the years of the federal republic of germany came as a shock. but on the other hand, the total appetite does not seem to be as high as a lot of especially who are concerned about climate change, would like to see happening. there is continuity and at the same time there is change, no radical change or revolution. >> what does the new germany mean for this -- for europe and the rest of the world? >> germany has a chance to reset its leadership role within the european union. during the pandemic, germany is able to be a leader and more proactive in addressing issues that during the euro crisis,

when it's role was to wait for the last minute before trying to find some way to the problem. if the new chancellor can continue the forward living momentum and keeping germany at the forefront of looking for ways to stimulate the economy and to contain the pandemic, will be a chance to put germany in a new light on the international stage. >> there are potential areas where all three of these parties could see friction, but on the arena forum -- a foreign policy, from the point of view of foreign government, is germany likely to look much different from the germany that angela merkel lead for 16 years? >> i think it might look different. in foreign policy the liberals have been more focused on democracy and human rights, that was the case when back in the

day, he was the foreign minister. it is also the case when the green party was with the government. he was extremely active in foreign policy. he ensured that germany for the first time since the second world war sent troops into battle in the crisis over khosrow. the green party and the liberal party have been critical of russia and china, so while social democrats have traditionally had elements within them who are quite positive, that will change, especially since -- will be the foreign minister. it says in article 65 of the german constitution that the chancellor determines the guidelines of policy. so there might be a little schism in the government. schulz might try to push back, and that will be interesting to see if he is able and willing

and interested in pushing back on foreign policy. i think the fundamental reason is it will be more vocal in the criticism of the likes of russia. >> picking up some of what he said, do you expect this government to take a hard-line on some of the foreign policy issues, particularly with regard to russia and what is doing in europe right now with regards to ukraine and belarus and taking a chance to -- tougher stance on china? >> i agree that the mood toward russia is likely to tighten up and the germans are likely to be more critical where they can. we are in a tough spot particularly because of the nord stream 2 pipeline that is still not online and puts germany in a

position of having to work with russia more than some of russia's critics might like. on china, i think it will be easier for the coalition to have a unified front in the message they want to send. there has been concern about human rights abuses from the partners and this is an area where they may be able to come together to hone their message and possibly find ways to make it effective. >> this is something of a groundbreaking coalition. it has been called the three traffic lights coalition because of various colors each party represents. you've got green, the conservatives, as well as the main governing party. the expression of politics making strange bedfellows comes to mind. is it going to be hard to keep those various factions happy?

>> outside it appears as a major change. is not a very polarized society, which means merkel moved the christian democratic union into the center and the social democrats in the middle. they try to highlight differences in the campaign, but all commentators saw more of the similarities and the overlapping decisions which made it a smooth discussion until we had a coalition agreement that kneels down all of the bullet points that this coalition is trying to address. >> if i could come back to you. what does olaf scholz bring to this government as a leader? what are some of his qualities? i know you mentioned about foreign policy and how it has traditionally been run from the chancellery. that is something angela merkel certainly did.

is that a tradition is likely to continue? and if it does, is that going to be a problem for the foreign minister who is from the green party? >> if we could start with all of scholz first, one of the most eminent economists in germany, one of the economic wisemen, they have an institution in germany. he described his economic policy as pb longstocking economics. -- pippi longstocking economics. that is a positive thing you can say, if you know your swedish children, she is a kind and strong little girl. he is not a little girl, but he bases his policies on social justice, kindness. there will be a focus on social justice. at the same time, it will also be based on strength, economic strength. he has a track record as finance

minister. before that he was a minister of labor in the first angela merkel government. he has a track record, he has the physical strength, somebody who is living to be pragmatic. he has appointed as economic advisers somebody who used to work for goldman sachs and an economist with a business background. this combination of social justice and fiscal responsibility i think is what characterizes him. that would also characterize germany. i don't see that as in any way opposed to what any of the other green members of the government would be in favor of. the green party and many german states are eyeing government with the conservatives. they are in some ways economically true, if you look at some of the southern states, the green premier is probably in some ways to the right of the

social democrats. i think we can say that their government is economically in the center. it is based on pragmatism. and i think that is the way we government. in some ways a continuation of medical, certainly in terms of the military. >> how do you see the government handling the issue of immigration and refugees, which is coming to the fore over the last few weeks? there have been indications that they will formulate a more humane policy. >> one way to do it might be to focus on the overall economy and the pandemic rather than the political implications of immigration. certainly in germany never we have seen the far right, they come with a lot of emphasis on the danger of immigrants and the threat of foreigners.

a way to reset that issue might be to focus on economic growth, coming together, to continue to contain the pandemic. and looking for ways to strengthen the economy. workers from all of the world coming to germany and contributing to germany is a way that can be framed to everyone's benefit perhaps. >> she mentioned the pandemic, that is obviously the most immediate issue for this new government. how are they likely to respond to the current situation with the pandemic and the omicron variant? >> on the one hand, the pandemic did not appear equally in every part of germany in the same way. so it made sense that a decentralized lyrical system as the federal republic of germany that gives a lot of power to the governors of the different 16

areas can react differently and they did. evevery governor does things differently, but we also saw a lot of coordination happening on the federal level. that is why everyone was very curious to see who will be nominated to the new health minister and we have a professor of epidemiology expertise who was basically every day -- and for many years he was the health expert of the social democrats and was nominated to health minister. we both see basically a hard-line to fight the pandemic in the driver seat. it is very likely that the governors will respond to his guidelines. >> if we turn to climate change now, this government has said it wants a fair, more liberal germany and that translates to climate change policy, climate

change being a priority. they said they are going to phase out coal. they accelerate the phasing out of coal. by 2030 instead of the original target of 2038. is that something that is viable and if it isn't, could it come -- could it cause friction with greens? >> it is. one thing they are also going to do is that next year they are going to and reliance on nuclear power. the green party was established as an anti-nuclear party and then they will have a problem. germany has had an immense increase in the number of and use of renewables.

there can be issues that have to be dealt with. germany will have to step up to the plate. but again -- then again, she has done that before. it is in everybody's interest to find a solution. also the green party in some ways already lost out. they wanted to get the ministry of transport, they wanted to have speed limits on the german highways and the ministry went to the liberal party. in some ways, the liberal parties have already lost, the first round, and it's important to make sure they are not perceived as losing. >> i want to talk about some of that with rebecca kristi. is that how you see things? >> one thing we have not talked about much is the financial aspect of all of this.

certainly coming into this, germany is going to have to look at how much it is willing to spend on energy and for structure, climate infrastructure, digital infrastructure. looking at ways to do that, to manage the digital and climate transitions, while also navigating germany's tricky this will politics, will be a big challenge for this government. >> this is because the finance ministry will be run by someone from a right-wing party. that has been talked about as a potential area of friction. >> that is certainly a potential area, particularly on the issue of the debt make, which is a fiscal rule that determines how much germany can borrow on the public markets based on a formula of things like economic growth and perceived economic danger. olaf scholz has been proactive in wanting to change it. it is suspended right now during the pandemic, which has been one of the boldest measures angela

merkel's government was able to bring about on its way out. if he can continue that rethinking and revisiting and if the incoming finance minister, if his skepticism can be overcome or challenge -- channeled in a way that allows germany to make these investments, i think there is potential for progress. if the debt break comes in and germany heads back toward the idea that any type of public debt is dangerous in and of itself, i think there will be a hard time rising to these challenges. >> how do you see germany's economic policy evolving under this new government? >> we have an export model, which means we produce things the rest of the world likes to buy and most importantly we are part of the european union and the single market. so our party us -- all in the

new coalition are dedicated europeans and they go as far as declaring that the long-term goal is something like a federal european state. having said that, it would imply that the monetary union should be stabilized by something like a fiscal union. but this is, even some -- given what was just said about the constraints in the financial situation of germany and being skeptical about the fiscal competence of the european union, not likely to happen. on the one hand, we depend on the global economic situation including relations with china, we also depend on the recovery of the european union market with $750 billion recovery plan that it boosts the economy to allow the economic model to

continue. >> sorry, go ahead. >> i think one of the interesting things about this also, you have to look at the small print. overall you are not allowed to have this in the german constitution, you are allowed deficit run by companies that have majority government shareholders. what they have done to get around the debt break is that a number of companies, for example the housing -- a government home -- government owned housing can handle it. in the nations of the state government owned companies that are controlled by the government, they are allowed to run a deficit. therefore you have a legally clever way around this will allow them to run a deficit. the only problem is that it might be challenged in the courts and there is another

headache. but they have found a clever way around it. >> i will give what is probably the last word to you. >> the german constitutional court is a big question. it is good to mention that because a lot of the ways germany has been able to contribute internationally have been travel -- challenge through this court and the court is clear in showing its own skepticism about how german law relates to european law. going forward, a challenge will be finding ways to contribute internationally and is steering clear of what, from the outside, like embarrassing showdowns between german law and european law. this is the thing we expect from poland and hungary, rather than from germany, and saying national lot might be the thing here rather than european law, to succeed in the new coalition, scholz will have to find a way

to show that germany will contribute to the strength of the european union and keep it moving forward together. >> we are going to have to leave there. we are unfortunately out of time. i want to thank all three of you for taking part in the discussion. over in berlin, in brussels and london, thank you. it should be interesting to see how this plays out and give are watching. you can see the program any time, just go to our website at aljazeera.com and for further discussion you can go to facebook.com/ajinsidestory. join the conversation on twitter, our handle is @ajinside story. for me and the entire team, pfeiffer now -- bye for now. ♪■?■? ñqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq

claudette zepeda-wilkins: american is a relative term. what is american? personally i think the border is, you know, just a speed bump in between two countries. as a child, i think we took tj for granted not because it was a different country to me. to me, it was just like, "oh, it's just tj. it's where the other half of my family lives." and even if i was in tj my entire life, being this far north, you are sort of removed from the other parts of mexico and the culture. you're mexican, but you don't really kno