02/01/22 02/01/22 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> russia has assembled a massive force of more than 100,000 troops along ukraine's border. these are combat forces and special forces, prepared to conduct offensive actions into ukraine. >> the discussions about the

threat of war is provocative in and of itself. you're almost calling for this. you wanted to happen. amy: as the u.s. and nato allies send arms to ukraine and russia and masses troops on its border, can a war in europe be averted? we will speak to medea benjamin codepin about how the peace movement is responding. >> nato should have been dissolved after the cold r. instead, it is an aggressive organization that is provoking this conflict. we have to not only say ukraine should not be part of nato, but to should be dissolv. amy: we will also talk to a peace activist in belgium, the home of nato, and germany, which is refusing to send arms to ukraine. and we will talk to a ukrainian sociologist who says the u.s. media is harming ukraine by spreading hysteria about the crisis. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report.

i'm amy goodman. united states and russia class monday at the united nations security council over the crisis in ukraine. the u.s. accused russia appearing to invade ukraine by amassing over 100,000 troops on its border but russia rejected the charge claiming it was the united states and nato who are trying to push russia into war. this is russia's u.n. ambassador. >> our western colleagues are talking about the need for de-escalation. however, first and foremost, they themselves are whipping up tensions and rhetoric and are provoking escalation. the discussions about a threat of war is provocative in and of itself. you are almost calling for this. you want it to happen. amy: lastly, president biden placed 8500 troops on high alert. the u.s. and nato allies are shipping weapons to ukraine on the diplomatic front the secretary of state tony blinken

said to speak with his russian counterpart by phone today. u.s. senators are preparing to unveil a bill imposing was headed robert menendez described as the mother of all sanctions targeting putin, russian banks, and other entities. more on the crisis over ukraine after headlines. chinese authorities say they've identified over 200 coronavirus infections among athletes and personnel involved in the beijing winter olympics as china struggles to maintain its zero-covid strategy. the winter of the becks opening ceremony will be friday. -- the winter olympics opening sermon will be over the weekend, friday. authorities sealed off sealed several residential areas of beijing where two locally-transmitted covid-19 cases were detected. in canada, prime minister justin trudeau said monday he tested positive for coronavirus and will work from home. trudeau, who received a booster shot in early january, reported no symptoms. he said two of his three school-aged children also tested

positive, and once again called on canadians to get vaccinated. over the weekend, thousands of protesters arrived in ottawa to oppose vaccine mandates for truck drivers who cross the canada-u.s. border. trudeau said some of the protesters displayed confederate flags, swastikas, and other symbols of hate. >> there is always a right to protest peacefully that i and others will defend fully as part of this democracy. there is not a right to incite violence, to perform acts of violence, or to spew hatred. amy: the number of daily coronavirus infections reported around the united states continues to fall rapidly from mid-january's peak, but remains higher than at any other point in the pandemic. more than 2500 people are dying of covid-19 each day, with the official u.s. death toll on pace to pass 900,000 in mid-february. pfizer is preparing to request emergency-use authorization for

its vaccine in children aged six months to five years old. that's according to "the washington post," which reports the request by pfizer and its partner biontech could come far sooner than expected, with the cash and a decision by health regulators could come as the early as the end of february. meanwhile, the food and drug administration has fully authorized moderna's covid-19 vaccine for use in u.s. adults. it's the second vaccine to get full fda approval after pfizer's mrna vaccine w full authorization last august. "the new york times" reports former president trump directed his lawyer rudy giuliani to ask the department of homeland security if it could legally take control of tingachines in key swing states after trump lost the 2020 election. "the times" cited three anonymous sources who said trump also explored proposals for two other government agencies, the pentagon and the justice department, to seize voting machines in an effort to reverse his defeat.

"the washington post" reports some of the white house records turned over by the national archives to congressional investigators had been ripped up by trump and then taped back together. trump reportedly had a habit of tearing presidential records into shreds and tossing them on the floor, a likely violation of the presidential records act. cnn reports that former vice president mike pence's chief of staff marc short quietly testified before the house select committee investigating january 6 last week in response to a subpoena. meanwhile, in georgia, fulton county district attorney fani willis has asked the fbi to provide security after trump called on his supporters at a weekend rally to target what he called "radical, vicious, racist prosecutors." last week, a judge approved willis' request to convene a special grand jury to investigate trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. she is an african-american

woman. in florida, republican governor ron desantis on monday lashed out at peoplwho've called on him to condemn a series of nazi demonstrations over the weekend near orlando. desantis accused democrats of trying to "smear me as if i had something to do with it." his remarks came after his press secretary christina pushaw deleted a tweet suggesting the protesters were not real nazis and questioned whether they were democrats in disguise. meanwhile, police in chicago have arrested a suspect in string that adherent hate crimes targeting the jewish community. the windows of two jewish owned chicago businesses were smashed saturday while on sunday as synagogues and jewish school were vandalized with swastika images and anti-semitic graffiti. amnesty international has published a new report accusing israel of carrying out the crime of apartheid against palestinians. the secretary general agnes

callamard spoke to reporters in occupied east jerusalem. >> we are here today to call on the international community to take resolute action against the crime of humanity being perpetrated in order to maintain the system of apartheid. amy: israeli officials had demanded amnesty international not release the report, calling its findings "false, biased, and antisemitic." in related news, three israeli military officers are being disciplined over their involvement in the january death of a 78-year-old palestinian american man in the west bank. two were removed from their positions and a third will be formally censured. none are being criminally charged. omar assad died of a stress-induced heart attack after being bound and gagged and held in a cold construction site by the israeli soldiers who detained him at a checkpoint

while he drove home. in immigration news, the homeland security department confirmed monday it will expel venezuelan asylum seekers apprehended in the u.s.-mexico border to colombia if they previously lived there. the biden administration had already quietly begun returning venezuelans to colombia using a contested trump-era, so-called public health policy called title 42, which allows u.s. immigration officials to remove asylum seekers without due process during the pandemic. in mexico, journalist roberto toledo was assassinated in the state of michoacán monday, the fourth mexican media member killed in january alone. toledo reported for the local news outlet monitor michoacán. the outlet's director denounced toledo's murder in a video posted on social media and said their team had received several death threats. >> today, the threats were ultimately fulfilled.

one of our colleagues lost his life at the hands of three people who shot him in a mean and currently manner. our only defense is our pen. amy: to see our segment on the murdered mexican journalists, go to democracynow.org. burma's military rulers have extended a state of emergency for another six months. monday's announcement came just ahead of the one-year anniversary of the february 1st coup that deposed democratically-elected leader aung saan suu kyi. burmese military officials have threatened to bring charges of sedition and terrorism against businesses that join a silent strike today to protest against the military dictatorship. meanwhile, there were reports of scattered protests in the capital rangoon. u.n. human rights officials report at least 1500 people are known to have been killed in the year of protests following the coup. in brazil, over a dozen people, including seven children, have died in the state of são paulo

since friday in torrential rains. some 500 families lost their homes. meanwhile, in ecuador, at least 11 people died and several others injured in quito as cars, mud, rocks and tree trunks were swept away by flooding after a day of record rainfall monday. the biden administration said monday it will reinstate regulations on emissions of toxic mercury and other pollutants from coal- and oil-fired power plants. the move reverses a rollback of environmental rules imposed by president trump in april of 2020. a federal appeals court has ruled an arizona utility company can be held liable for violations of anti-trust laws after it charged its customers higher rates for electricity if they chose to install solar panels on their rooftops. the 9th circuit court of appeals found evidence that the salt river project utility structured its pricing to unlawfully thwart competition from solar energy systems. some salt river project

customers in phoenix saw their electricity prices rise by more than 60% after they installed solar panels on thr homes. in labor news, the workers united union says workers at 16 more starbucks locations around the united states petitioned the national labor relations board for union elections on monday. that brings the number of starbucks stores where workers are organizing to 54 across 19 states. in december, workers at a buffalo starbucks store successfully organized the first union at the coffee giant's 9000 u.s. locations. in california, a democratic lawmaker called off a vote monday on whether to establish a single-payer, universal health health care system moments before the california state assembly was scheduled to take up the bill. a.b.-1400, also known as the california guaranteed health care for all act, had failed to garner the support of enough democrats even though the party

has a veto-proof majority in the state legislature. progressives have vowed to fight to bring the bill to a vote in the next legislative session. the california democratic party progressive caucus responded -- "healthcare is a human right, and in the midst of a global pandemic, our democratic supermajority showed its true colors and its loyalty to the profits of the healthcare industry over the needs of their constituents." and in georgia, a federal judge has rejected plea deals between federal prosecutors and two of the three white men convicted of murdering ahmaud arbery. the deals would have allowed gregory and travis mcmichael to serve the first 30 years of their life sentences in a federal prison instead of a state prison and to avoid a federal trial scheduled for next week. ahmaud's father marcus arbery on monday condemned the plea agreements, saying all three of his son's killers should face federal hate crimes charges. >> and we what 100% justice, not

know have justice. if an african-american man was to do a white man like that, that would kill him on the spot. amy: and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. when we come back, we will look at the u.s. nato ukraine situation as russia amasses troops on ukraine border and nato and the united states send weapons to ukraine. can a war in europe be averted? stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "both sides now" by joni mitchell.

this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman in new york, joined by my co-host juan gonzález in new brunswick, new jersey. hi, juan. juan: hi, amy. welcome to all of r listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. amy: the united states and russia sparred on monday over the crisis in ukraine at the united nations security council. the united states accused russia of preparing to invade ukraine by amassing more than 100,000 troops on its border but russia rejected the charge, claiming it is the united states and nato who are trying to push russia into a war. last week, president biden ordered 8500 u.s. troops to be on high alert. the u.s. and nato allies are also shipping weapons to ukraine. this is linda thomas-greenfield, the u.s. ambassador to the united nations. >> the threads of aggression on

the border of ukraine, yes on its border, is provocative. our recognition of the facts on the ground is not provocative. the threats of action if russia's security demand are not met is provocative. our encouraging diplomacy is not provocative. the provocations from russia, not from us, or other members of this council. russia has assembled a massive military force for more than 100,000 troops along ukraine's border. these are combat forces and special forces, prepared to conduct offensive actions into ukraine. this is the largest -- hear me clearly, largest mobilization in decades. amy: and this is russia's u.n.

addressing the security council. >> the deployment of russian troops within our own territory has frequently occurred on varying scales before and has not caused any hysterics whatsoever. troops and servicemen o are in their own areas of deployment and barracks where they were before, there were not actually on the border. this deployment of russian troops in her own territory is getting our western and u.s. colleagues to say there is going to be a planned military action and even an act of aggression, but the u.s. ambassador speaks as if that act of aggression has already taken place. i very carefully listened to her statement. the military action of russia against ukraine that they are all assuring us is going to take place in just a few weeks time, if not a few days time. there, however, is no proof of confirming such a serious accusation whatsoever being put forward. it is not preventing people from whipping up hysteria to such an

extent that an actual economic impact is already being felt by our ukraine neighbors. amy: the u.n. security council adjourned on monday without the body taking any action on the crisis in ukraine. on the diplomatic front, u.s. secretary oftate ty blinken is speaking with his russian counterpart sergei lavrov by phone today. british prime minister boris johnson and dutch prime minister mark rutte are both expected to visit kiev today. meanwhile, the hungarian president viktor orban is set to meet with russian president vladimir putin today and hold a news conference with him. in washington, u.s. senators are preparing to unveil a bill imposing what senator robert menedez described as "the mother of all sanctions" targeting vladimir putin, russia banks, and other entities. today we are spending the hour talking to those we are rarely hearing from, voices around the world calling for peace. we begin today's show with two

guests. volodymyr ishchenko is a ukrainian sociologist. a research associate at the institute for east european studies at the free university of berlin. he is joining us from the german city of dresden. also with us, medea benjamin, co-founder of codepink. codepink is one of 100 u.s. groups that released a statement today urging president biden to end what they call the u.s. role in escalating the ukraine crisis. medea benjamin, let's begin with you. as these talks are happening at the highest levels and russia is amassing troops on the border with ukraine and the u.s. and nato countries are sending weapons to ukraine, can you talk about if you hold out hope for peace and what you think that could look like. >> certain hold out hope for peace but i think it is going to take the people of the nato countries and especially the united states to make their

voices heard. we cannot rely on the democrats or republicans. we have them falling over each other disease will be the toughest on russia, with the democrat bill calling for $500 million of legal aid to be expedited and nancy pelosi saying she is going to fast-track this legislation and these crushing sanctions that we have seen the u.s. impose on other countries like venezuela, cuba ,iran, that only hurt the ordinary people. we have to make our voices heard, which is why we are calling for people to get out on saturday, february that, in front of their federal building, statehouses, offices of the congressional representatives, or anywhere to say no to this escalation. and we say every day should be a day of action, calling and writing your congressional representatives and the white house. that is the only way they're going to hear that the american

people do not want a war with russia, and we have to be recognize this moment in history as one where we need the voice of the american people -- not a peace movement, the american people in general because we are all against going to war. juan: i wanted to ask you, we have been hearing now for weeks the same story repeated on almost every newscast, 100,000 russian troops on ukrainian border. no one talks about the fact there are 320,000 american troops still in europe. 30 years after the collapse of the soviet bloc. and those trips are somehow not considered a problem or a threat. who are they therefore, those 320,000 troops?

>> that is right. i think this is a moment to educate the erican people about all of the bases the u.s. has surrounding russia. but if russia had bases in mexico and canada with missiles that were pointed at the united states? this is an educational moment and i am glad you're spending the hour on and talking about nato and how nato has expanded from 16 members at the time of the collapse of the soviet union to 30 members, including members that were part of this soviet republic and how ukraine has a 1300 mile border with russia. of course, this is extremely intimidating. i go back to saying the american people have to recognize how the u.s. is the expansionist country that has bases all over the world and that nato is antagonizing, not only russia, but china. it is has china is a threat to

nato security, that is the north american trade organization. china is in the pacific. it is a moment to say not only do we want ukraine not to be part of nato, but we want nato disbanded. you can go to the codepink website and see all kinds of ways you can get involved in this peace movement right now. juan: do you have contact with peace movements either in ukraine or russia? what are they telling you about their concerns about this growing drumbeat for war? >> we are part of a movement that is called "no to nato" and we have reached out to groups in russia, in ukraine, and they're also the same thing. nobody wants to go to war. there are many people in ukraine that are worried about russia, but they say war is not the answer. we know that the only ones who benefit from war are the

military-industrial complex, the media that has been so sensationalist and increases its ratings. and that is why people in ukraine itself are saying slow down, step back. and of course the people in russia are saying the same thing. amy: let's bring in volodymyr ishchenko, the ukrainian sociologist. if you can talk about the response right now of ukraine. what it's been interesting as last weekend when president biden spoke with the ukrainian president, it was reported that call did not go well and that zelensky was saying, you're blowing this up, you're going to lead us to war. he pulled back on that when he was asked about it, but that is the report behind the scenes.

can you talk about what is happening in ukraine right now and where the fees movement their stance? >> good morning. there's quite the concern of the ukrainian government now. it goes against the mainstream narrative about immigration. not only celeste become the secretary of the tional security council, they all tell according to ukrainian intelligence, they don't see the massive invasion to ukraine, -- not only in the coming weeks, but this year at least. that is what the ukrainian

intelligence says. some people might s ukrainian government might be lying and fighting the truth, the usual conspiracyheories. at the same time, officers or military intelligence so, ok, they have traitors and the vernment by just lyiyi to the publbl and need to prepareddd r invasion likikrrow orrr xt w wk.k.k.

dia and also the u.k. officials and media that is developing -- let mutual reinforcement with russian diplomacy. and for ukraine, it already means economic risks, destabilizes the national currency. investors, for example, at the real estate market, start to move away. the government feels this may have serious economic consequences right here, right now, even before russia actually did anything, particularly

aggressive this year. finally, the government might feel -- again, this is a speculating level. the far the west might try to force ukraine in order to implement -- [indiscernible] for various reasons, one is you might feel for the violent revolt from the nationalist society -- speaking on one part of ukraine, not for the whole country. juan: volodym ishchenko, i wanted to ask you particularly about the right wing within ukraine. president putin has alleged there are significant nazi and

ultra-right movement within ukraine. could you talk about groups like the freedom party come how big are they? how influential are they within the ukrainian government? >> they are not relevant literally this moment. the group was able to get into the parliament if it one election -- 10 years ago. some of the people connected to the far right -- the real expense is on the streets. probably the most mobilize, politically articulated part of ukrainian civil society. the problem is they also have significant legitimacy from other parts of civil society and political society --

systematically don't -- far right segment. it is kind of ke whitewashing of ukrainian civil society, which is specifically directed to the west in order to sustain all the support, sanctions against russia, and so on and so forth. not so struck at the electoral level, however, due to their strength, capital influence, particularly about the implementation -- the far right activists --

in 2019 when zelensky had huge support from society come over 70%, win in a landslide in the presidential elections, winning a simple majority, he was not able to make progress with implementation -- even supported by france and germany. quite small but forceful campaign led by the national civil society. not only the far right party, but by professional ngos perceived by labor, however, in close connections and cooperation with the far right segment. at the same time, supported by

the western donors, western governments. amy: i want to ask medea benjamin about the role of military contractors here and what they have to gain right now. several executives for u.s. military contractors have boasted the worst in conflict in ukraine is boosting their profits. this is the raytheon ceo speaking last week during an earnings conference call with investors. >> the answer is obviously we are saying i would say opportunities for international sales, we just have to look to last week where we saw the drone attack in the uae, which attacked some of their facilities, the tensions -- all of those things are putting pressure on some of the defense spending over there. i fully expect we will see some benefit from it. amy: raytheon, lockheed martin,

general dynamics all fund the center for strategic and international studies and influential think tank that supported this military action in response to the russian invasion. you go back to the famous promise that as secretary of state james baker made to gorbachev, when was it, in 1990 saying "not one inch eastward" that promise that nato would not extend to russia's border. medea benjamin, if you can talk about what we here in the united states on the corporate networks, the lack of presence of those who were opposed to a war with russia? >> first, i think it is very important you bring out who in these defense contractors and military contractors are benefiting from this. we have given over $3 billion in

both legal aid to ukraine since the 2014 coup and the nato alliance itself, there are some organizations that come together to do things like reduce poverty or greenhouse gases. the nato allies has a goal of increasing the percentage of the gdp that country spent on the military. it is actually a goal. only 10 of the 30 so far have reached that goal and there is pressure on those deadbeat countries who prefer to put money into education and health care instead of buying fighter jets and bombs. so nato itself is really doing the bidding of the military industrial complex. the media is another winner in this most of the ratings go up. they sensationalizthis. as you say, they don't put voices of the peace movement. i do want to say we need to progressives in congress to speak out more because they have

more access to the media then we do. there is a statement that was put out by pramila jayapal, the head of the progressive caucus, and barbara lee, but it was not signed by the whole progressive caucus, just the two of them. where the rest of the over 100 members of congress that call themselves progressives? we need to hear their voices and we need to hear them on the media, loud and clear, representing as saying "stop this escalation of war. we need the money not to be spent on more bombs, but that money to be spent here at home to improve people's lives." juan: i wanted to ask you, the u.s. government has not onlyad trouble rallying the government in ukraine behind its current posture toward russia, but also among its own nato allies. i am wondering if your talks with other peace groups around europe, what the hope is for

whether any of the major european powers will put the brakes on the drumbeat for war that is going on now? >> certainly, the government of germany and france have been better than united states, but there's so much pressure from the u.s. on nato to come out in unity on this. and that is why it is so in orton to hear from the -- important to hear from the peace groups that are active in the european countries, particularly in places like germany and france. it is civil society in those countries that are forcing their governments to try to take a stand that is not as aggressive as the united states. unfortunately, we do not have the same kind of pressure on our government, which is what we need to do right now. it is our moment now to show our european allies, the civil society in those countries, that we, too, can put that kind of pressure on our government.

amy: and the day of action, peace with russia day of action you have plannedor february 5? what is that? >> it was just as you can go to the codepink website and register your own protest. you only need yourself and a group of friends to do that we need people all over the country. then we are really saying that every day is a day of protest. our friends in san francisco is going to the home of nancy pelosi because she is supposed to represent us and yet she is calling for expediting this legislation that would send more weapons to ukraine. so i think it is fair to go not only to the offices of our representatives, but if necessary, to go to their homes. they are not doing their job. of course, antony blinken, was of us to be the top diplomat in the united states as secretary of state, is not doing his job.

but neither are all of those who are supposed to be our representatives. they are not doing their job of calling on the biden administration to stop this drumbeat for w. so it really is up to us, february 5, to get out but call, write, and not only to congress, but the media, to tell them we want to hear the other side in this conflict, the side that is calling for de-escalation, negotiations, no war. amy: want to thank you for being with us medea benjamin, , co-founder of codepink. and volodymyr ishchenko is a ukrainian sociologist. institute for east european studies at the free university of berlin. when we come back, we are going to look at the peace movement in germany and also in belgium, the home of nato. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "gospel" by egor letov and his band. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. as we continue look at voices for peace in the tensions over ukraine as we go now to germany, where the new coalition government has refused to send weapons to ukraine even as the united states and other european nations have sent military support. germany also banned estonia from supplying german-origin howitzer weapons to ukraine. germany did send ukraine about 5000 combat helmets last week to help protect soldiers in case of an attack by russia.

germany's defense minister said the move was a signal to ukraine that "we are on your side." but the move was ridiculed by others calling for a stronger stance. sending active military weapons. this comes as the head of the german navy resigned this month after he made comments that downplayed the crisis, saying russian president vladimir putin deserved respect. german chancellor olaf scholz has promised his country is in tune with eu and nato policies towards russia, but insisted, "we don't provide any lethal weapons." scholz spoke earlier this month at the world economic forum. >> russian site is aware of our determination, also realized the gains outweigh the price up for the confrontation. this is the basis on which we are engaging because we strongly believe in global public goods

can only be preserved through international cooperation and peace is the most important one of them. amy: for more, we go to berlin, germany, to speak with reiner braun, the executive director of the international peace bureau. he is a german peace activist, historian, and author who has campaigned against the u.s. airbase in ramstein and against nato. also with us in belgium where nato is based is ludo de brabander, spokesperson for a peace organization based in belgium which works with a global coalition "no to war -- no to nato" which organizes an annual nato country summit. we welcome you both to democracy now! reiner braun, let's begin with you. we are looking now at a post -angela merkel germany at this moment in time with this escalation of militarism in --

towards russia in regards to ukraine. talk about the german peace movement and where it stands rit now and what this new government is about, which is in coalition with the greens. >> the german government has two parties which are probably into russian parties. the greens and the liberals. and both a trying to push against a more aggressive behavior to russia. this includes no to the pipelines, which include the stop of sending military equipment to create -- this needs more confrontation. in the german peace movement is campaigning for peaceful relations to russia, pretty negotiation come in for filling the obligation of the agreement.

the agreement which first said we need a new constitution in ukraine which makes the country much more federal. we need negotiations between the two parts of ukraine. we need elections in ukraine. and then also a new border control. is the key point a peaceful solution of the conflic and ukraine government is doing the opposite. there always try to put more troops, more weapons to the border, more maneuvers, $2.5 billion in the support from u.s. this aggressive u.s. government. the peace movement looking for a policy of common security, for negotiations, and for mobilizing the people for peace against a very intensive war-oriented media campaign in our country. juan: i would like to ask you,

reiner braun, you mentioned 2 the minsk agreement. what is that basically a threat to the hegemony of the united states, seeing as it was your turn to solve its own problems? >> it was the trial of your to solve the problem with a discussion which include russia and two parts of ukraine and france and germany. and this excludes the united states because united states is very -- aggressive interest in ukraine and opposite to a policy of common security and negotiations in europe. russia was always trying to negotiate with the europeans. it is one of the biggest mistakes of the european countries to deny these negotiations and go to the support of the u.s. confrontation of politics. and we hope is a movement of the

people to a more inclusive european politics, which is continuing the politics of the 1980's and the 1990's where we have the, politics with russia and many point a peaful part of german european history, and we have to come back to that because the opposition is were in central europe. can you imagine? with a high-technology evolved means? it means the destroyment the central europe. and i cannot imagine this war will end without new glare weapons. that means the end of your. -- that means the end of europe. we coming together peacefully or supporting use competition of politics to more aressionsnd mo were operated against ukraine and russia? juan: in terms of -- there's

been much made of the nord 2 pipeline that has been completed but not certified terms of the influence that has on germany, could you talk about that in relationsh to this crisis? >> the pipelines an open question. i many problems with the pipelines. but in reality, these pipelines saves energy security for europe. energy becomes much more expensive. also the unit or russia, obligation [indiscernible] we need these pipelines as an element of cooperation in opposition to the confrontation. let me say one example for the confrontation, it is always said

the russian troopnear the border to ukraine. there are 350 meters away from the border. but -- [indiscernible] aggression to whom? nato spending $1.1 trillion for military purposes, russia's spending 65 billion dollars for military purposes. can you imagine the country's military budget is 1/14 of the other? these are stupid stories which only show the aggression comes from thnato. amy: reiner braun, if you could

talk about the assessment that the u.s. analysts in the corporate media often give, just try to get their feet on the ground, they're very wishy-washy but they will get it together, and finally they will join with united states. they have been pre-wishy-washy until this point. would you assess them in that way or would you say they are taking a completely different approach because they don't want to send active military weapons to or be involved with real military incursion? >> in reality, all of these countries are part of nato. the nato enlargement is the background of the crisis in the aggression of the western countries. there are differently differences. but there are many common points. one main common point is that they want to include ukraine in

the western system. at the european level and nato level. these are strategic reasons -- geostrategic arguments. ukraine is a very important part in easia. zelensky -- ukraine under control. on the other side, [indiscernible] there is a common interest of the u.s. and europe and that is to weaken russia and not to accept the russian military as a russian national interest. and that is the background of these deep, deep crisis. there are differences, but there are many common white between u.s. and europeans. america we went to bring in addition to reiner braun, go to

belgium where we're joined by ludo de brabander, who is with the group vrede vzw, the flemish word for peace. you're the country that is the homebase of nato. talk about the response there. >> she said, belgium is hosting the headquarters o nato. it is similar to what reiner said concerning germany, the firsthing o government says, there greens and social democrats in the government, is that we need to fuill our obligations toward nato. so if nato asks us to deploy troops, for example, toward the russian border, the east of europe, then belgium will do this.

this is the message we are given. maybe to give you an example of how a green crisis is playing also into laissez the interest of the military-industrial complex and used just recently last friday our government decided to increase the military budget, referring to t crisis with russia, to 1.54% of gdp. it is about an 18 year's time, 14 million euros, which is a lot of money, especiallyith the heth crisis and the energy crisis. you see the's is no debate in the media. it seems almost to be a political consensus this what is needed. i think this is e to the propaganda voices trying to get

alternatives are almost not heard. this is a little but the atmosphere in belgium. juan: ludo de brabander, for those listeners here who may not be familiar with the origins and evolution of nato, could you talk a little bit about the reason why nato was created and especially why it shows following the collapse of the soviet bloc to expand? >>ell, nato -- it was first created in 1949, it to keep the russians out, the germans down, and the united states in. that is a very famous phrase often used. of cours the russia bloc was established years later when

laissez when truman gave his speech in 1947, let's say, that makes the difference the start of the cold war. it was always with accompanying what i call the propaganda of we have to be careful from russia, russia will invade us. similar to what happens now. and after, i think was that in the program today, but going further in the 1990's when the soviet union also became dissolved and 10 states coming out of it, many in mainstream politics thought nato was not needed anymore, but nato -- just the opposite happened. nato reinvented itself. it started in the late 19's to expa territory to the east. it cnged, l's say, its

policy of pure defense organization to article five, you know, when one country tax all countries will help and support the country attacked. suddenly, thereas no talk of article five talks which became the policy of nato. third, it started to be global by making a lot of corporation agreements -- line nato reesblished itself as a global actor now, and nato has one and half of the military spending. now you see a bipush towar all nato countries because this was decided in 20 to increase their military budget and in a period of 65% of all militar expenditures in the world. so it became very important

military force. i think mainly strategical interest. it is not about security. if it were about security, let's say the retionship with russia would be trted differently. as i said before, that would be more cooperative. we would look for what is called common security because security is indivisible. security of the other is in the interest of the one. these policies are undermined by nato. the principle. juan: to what degree is there an opportunity for the peace movement to be able to affect the policies of some of the key players, european players within nato? >> it is very difficult. as i have sai there's not much coverage of positions of the peace movement. what we try do, already announced in the uted stat december fit -- sorry,

february, so next saturday, officials in brussels, what we tried to emphasize is nato is not in the interest of security and peace but also not in the interest of let's say the needs of people. this announcement of military spending to increase, this is what we tried to use because the same te there's a huge discussion government how to solve the bills. they go up 2, 3, four times. amy: we have 10 seconds. >> for energy. we want to oppose that military spending to the real needs of the people. amy: ludo de brabander, with the peace group vrede vzw, which is based in belgium where nato is based. and thank you to reiner braun, with the international peace

bureau. speaking to us from berlin. both will be involved with peace vigils as the escalation of militarism continues between ukraine and russia and united states and nato. i am amy goodman with juan

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