03/15/22 03/15/ [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> ukraine is on fire. the country is being decimated before the eyes of the world. the impact on civilians is reaching terrifying proportions. amy: as u.n. secretary general antonio guterres calls for peace in ukraine, we will go to kyiv

where the mayor has announced a 35-hour curfew after russia strikes intensify in the area. we will also speak to joshua yaffa of "the new yorker." he just left ukraine after reporting on the russian invasion for the past two weeks. and we look at how theiden administration is refusing to directly condemn saudi arabia for executing men in its largest 81 mass execution ever. >> does the united states also condone the execution? >> we have seen these reports that saudi arabia executed 81 people on march 12. we continue to raise with saudi arabia the need for fair tal guarantees, freedom from arbitrary and extrajudicial, freedom of religion. amy: all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman.

the mayor of kyiv has declared a 36 hour curfew after a series of rough certain missiles -- russian missiles hit areas of ukraine's capital as at least two people died when a russian missile hit a 16 story apartment complex. meanwhile, intense fighting raged outside the capital as the russian advance appears to be stalled. in southern ukraine, convoy of 160 cars was allowed to escape the besieged coastal city of mariupol on monday. a troops reportedly refused to allow an aid convoy into the city. in advisor to mariupol's mayor says russia's two-week assault has killed up to 20,000 people in the city, though it was impossible to verify the figure. today, the prime ministers of the czech republic, poland, pennsylvania are traveling to kyiv to meet with ukrainian

president. on monday, zelenskiy spoke roughly to the troops invading his country saying in russian they should surrender. >> on beha of the ukinian people, we give you a chance to live. if you surrender to our forces, we will treat you as humans have to be treated, with dignity. the way you have not been treated in your army and the way your army does not treat our people. choose. amy: president zelensky is set to address a jnt session of u.s. congress by video link wednesday. he is expected to ask for more lethal weapons and for the u.s. to broker a deal that would see mig fighter jets transferred from poland to ukraine. meanwhile, talks between ukraine and russiare resuming today. after headlines, we will go to ukraine for the latest. in moscow, an employee of the main state-owned television station channel one burst onto the set during monday evening's

live news broadcast holding a sign reading, "no war. don't believe the propaganda. they're lying to you here." the protester channel one , producer and editor marina ovsyannikova, appeared on-screen for several seconds shouting, "stop the war. no to war!" before the camera cut away. listen carefully. amy: marina ovsyannikova was arrested by officers with russia's interior ministry. she has since disappeared and reportedly has no access to legal representation. ahead of her protest, she recorded a video saying she had worked for years spreading kremlin propaganda as a producer at channel one.

>> i am ashamed i allowed lies to be told on tv screens. i am ashamed i allowed russian people to be full. we were silent in 2014 when it started. we did not protest when the kremlin poisoned, we something watch this inhumane regime. now the whole world has turned away from us and the next 10 generationof our descendants will not wash away thehame of this war. we russians are wise and proud. it is up to us to stop this maess. co out to protest. do not be afraid. they cannot put all of us in jail. amy: as she spoke, marina ovsyannikova wore a necklace featuring ukraine's national colors, blue and yellow, alongside russia's white, blue, and red. she said her father is ukrainian and her mother is russian. human rights groups in russia say 15,000 people have been arrested in anti-war protests across the country since the start of the ukraine invasion. the biden administration has

warned china against assisting russia with financial or military assistance in the face of devastating sanctions imposed by the u.s. and its allies. on monday, a u.s. delegation led by the national security aiser jake sullivan met with chinese officials in rome, hoping to press beijing into severing ties with moscow. the meeting came as china's foreign ministry denied reports that the kremlin asked beijing for military equipment. >> recently, the u.s. has been spreading disinformation against china in regards to the ukraine issue. time after time, with sinister intentions. china's position is consistent and clear, that we have always played a constructive role in promoting talks and persuading peace. amy: the united nations warns acute cases of hunger in yemen have reached an unprecedented level, with over 160,000 people likely to experience famine over the second half of this year. the u.n. says more than 17

million people in yemen are currently in need of food assistance, with persistent high levels of acute malnutrition among children under the age of five. the stark warning came ahead of a donor's conference on yemen, planned for wednesday. yemen is suffering the world's worst humanitarian crisis, seven years after the saudi-led coalition launched its war and blockade of yemen, backed by arms sales and technical assistance from the united states and allies, including france and the united kingdom. newly declassified documents reveal the cia used a prisoner at a secret prison in afghanistan as a training prop to teach interrogators how to torture other prisoners. portions of a 2008 report by the cia's inspector general made public in court filings reveal the prisoner, ammar al-baluchi, was repeatedly stripped naked and had his head slammed into a plywood wall by trainee interrogators -- who lined up to practice the technique on

baluchi for up to two hours at a time. the inspector general's report revealed the torture left baluchi with brain damage and did not yield any useful intelligence. baluchi is still being held at the u.s. prison in guantanamo, where he's been in pre-trial hearings for 10 years on charges he participated in plotting the 9/11 attacks. britain's highest court has rejected an appeal from julian assange, who is seeking to block his extradition to the united states. the ruling means british home secretary priti patel will have the final decision on whether to turn assange over to the biden administration. assange faces espionage charges that could bring up to 175 years in prison after he published classified u.s. documents on wikileaks that exposed war crimes. assange's lawyers argued he could face prolonged solitary confinement in a u.s. supermax prison, conditions tantamount to torture. this is simon crowther, a legal adviser with amnesty

international. >> what it means is not legally binding, diplomatic assurances that julian will not be tortured , will not be scrutinized by the supreme court. this is that for a massage but also for bad for justice in the u.k. and bad for the global prohibition of torture because this kind of agreement really needs all the scrutiny it can catch. amy: julian assange has spent over 1000 days locked up in the belmarsh high-security prison in london, where he recently suffered a mini-stroke. he's scheduled to marry his fiancé stella moris inside belmarsh on march 23. to see our interview with stella maris, you can go to democracynow.org. british lawmakers are calling on prime minister boris johnson to cancel his planned trip to saudi arabia for talks with crown prince mohammed bin salman. opposition politicians and even some members of johnson's conservative party cited the recent mass execution of 81 men by saudi arabia as the latest

example of the kingdom's abysmal human rights record. johnson has call on saudi officials to pump more oil to bring down rising energyosts as western countries look for alternatives to russian oil. last week, the white house came under fire after a report claimed president biden is planning a visit to saudi arabia to "help repair relations." we will have more on the u.s. relationship with saudi arabia later in the broadcast. meanwhile, the biden administration has reportedly retreated from a plan to discuss thlifting ofanctions o venezuela's oil industry. several u.s. senators, including florida republican marco rubio and new jersey democrat bob menendez, objected after reports emerged that venezuelan president nicolás maduro met with american officials in caracas earlier this month. meanwhile, koch industries said this week it has no plans to join neay 400 otr ltinatiol corporions tt have susnded the russian operatio. thconglorate, wch irun the bilonaire rublican party dor charlekoch, ow at lea three cpanies still

dog busine in russ. idaho's republican-led legislature has approved an anti-abortion bill modeled after texas' first-of-its-kind law that effectively bans abortions after about six weeks. the idaho law allows family members of a pregnant person, as well as a potential father, to sue a doctor who performs an abortion. those who succeed could collect $20,000 plus legal fees from the abortion provider. under the law, a rapist could not file such a lawsuit but a rapist's relatives could sue. this comes just days after idaho lawmakers approved a bill that would ban puberty-blocking treatment, hormone therapy, and gender-affirming surgery for trans children. it would also make it a felony to take trans youth out of the state to receive that care elsewhere. those found guil face up to life in prison. meanwhile, mississippi republican governor tate reeves signed a bill monday limiting how race can be discussed in classrooms. the bill garnered support only

from white republicans. all of mississippi's black legislators opposed it and staged a walkout in january to protest it. and in a reversal, west virginia democratic senator joe manchin said monday he will oppose president biden's nomination of sarah bloom raskin to serve on the federal reserve board. manchin's change of position all but dooms raskin's prospects of confirmation, which is opposed by all 50 senate republicans, including alaska's lisa murkowski and maine's susan collins. sarah bloom raskin has vowed to focus on how the climate crisis threatens the economy. last month, democracy now! asked raskin's husband, democratic congressmember jamie raskin, why republicans opposed her nomination. >> all this is about things she has said or writn about climate change. she said of course she will follow the law and act completely within the dual method of the fed, but they

attacking there can be citizens who are fully aware of climate change, who taket seriously, who can serve honorably and lawfully in other capacities. amy: and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. the mayor of kyiv has declared a 35 hour curfew after a series of russian missile strikes hit residential areas of the capital of ukraine. at least two people died when a russian missile hit a 16-story apartment complex. this comes as the prime ministers of the czech republic, poland, and slovenia travel to kyiv to meet with ukrainian president volodymyr zelensky.

for an immediate end to the war. >> ukraine is on fire. the country is being decimated before the eyes of the world. the impact on civilians is reaching terrifying proportions. countless innocent people, including women and children, have been killed. after being hit by russian forces, roads, airports, and schools lie in ruins. according to the world health organization, at least 24 health facilities have suffered attacks. hundreds of thousands of people are without water. and with each passing hour, two things are increasingly clear. first, it keeps getting worse. second, whatever the outcome, this war will he no winners, only losers. amy: u.n. secretary general antonio guterres. we go now to ukraine where we are joined by peter zalmayev, the director of the eurasia democracy. he is joining us from outside of kyiv.

peter, welcome to democracy now! you have this emergency curfew that has just been imposed. what is it, 35, 36 hours? can you describe what you are experiencing right now in your community? >> well, the curfew being imposed by the mayor is definitely clearly designed to prevent any provocation inside. we now have information that weeks prior to the invasion, russians have sent their diversionary groups, these clandestine cells, to infiltrate ukrainian cities, particularly kyiv. there have been a few doz identified in the first phase of the work in an attempt to take kyiv by force. several of these, numbering hundreds, were neutralized, by which i mean destroyed.

but the fear is there is still a lot of them there and they will try to attack from the inside. kyiv is living relatively, considering we have 2, 3 rocket attacks per day, it is already getting normalized to the idea that the capital of ukraine is getting rocket attacks and a few people die every day. still not on the scale, thank god, of mariupol where there are thousands reported dead. overall, i would say the situation -- there is no panic, necessarily. the steady flow of evacuees is proceeding. but about half of the prewar population of kyiv remains, which is about 2 million people. amy: peter, were predicting putin would invade in early february when most people were saying he would not dare do this at this extensive level of the whole country. why did you think this?

and talk about what exactly this means for the population of ukraine. of course, he expected, like rumsfeld did when the u.s. invaded iraq, to be met with flowers and applause. to say the least, this not only has happened, but it has brought together perhaps a very fractured society. >> well, indeed. vladimir putin's is calculation is pretty glaring -- miscalculation is pretty glaring. he is constantly trying to poke america in the eyes with what he claims is hypocrisy, such as going to iraq under false pretenses in 2003 and expectations about how they would be greeted, greeted by liberators. putin, whatever he claims about the u.s., he is repeating seems to be repeating the same mistakes. he miscalculated the strength of the resistance, the morass he would sink into, and ukrainians

to greet russians as liberators. it has not panned out like that. what i was saying is the invasion was coming, it was obvious that clear for vladimir putin to back down after having amassed 200,000 troops on the borders of ukraine would have been politcal suicide. just as much as it is for him now to sort of roll back his troops is tantamount to political and physical suicide almost i would say. that is why you hear this talk about the need to find an offramp for vladimir putin so he can announce victory. that is a separate subject for conversation. whether that should be happening. when you talk about -- if you asked me about ukrainian society, what it has sent to the ukrainian society. first of all, almost tinley people have fled ukraine but just judging from what i am saying driving around -- i have driven hundreds of miles run ukraine in the last two or three

weeks and i've not seen that level of national consciousness ever in my life. the only precedent for that would be the war of world war ii in the 1940's. this is as black and white issue of ukrainians as it has ever been. no shades of gray. it is a war for liberation, for freedom. in normal and peaceful times, i would shy away from these terms as to lofty, almost cheesy. but these are the terms in which we think right now. we look at the invading hordes, sort of like in the tolkien language. it is now accepted -- you hear from russia, from ukrainian tv presenters. semi-official way to describe what we are saying. the barbarity to which vladimir putin's troops have resorted and bombing our city centers, our infrastructure, the damage is estimated upwards up $100

billion already. it is clear they are not having military success. they are just bent on revenge and anger. amy: peter zalmayev, you are from donetsk. can you talk about what is happening there? >> it was kind of quiet for a while because the front line there, having existed in place since 2014, was the most fortified. that is why you see the incredible battle for mariupol. i would not be at liberty to venture to guess how many fighters are still there, but the invading force has circled mariupol is bigger, yet they are not having -- they're killing civilians, but they are not achieving their goal.

they have yet to take a major population center anywhere in ukraine, with the exception of -- sporadic rallies and they can't put them down. donestk was relatively quiet and the quite was shattered yesterday with a rocket was blown off the skies and landed right smack in the center of the city next to one of my apartments, several apartments that were sitting empty this whole time. one of them blew out all the windows in the apartment by the person who has been watching over the apartments just called and told me, it is looking pretty bad. large devastation. we are hearing as many as 20 people were killed. a true fog of war situation. here you go. amy: we are hearing numbers as

high as 20,000 dead in mariupol? is that possible? >> yes, i hearthis as well. i would doubt that figure. we're definitely talking several thousand. the last i heard was 2000 and 3000. 20,000 may be an exaggeration. question the figures by the people who are there. i don't believe it is 20,000, but we're definitely talking 3000 or so. if that is the case, and if the situation -- if the trend continues the same way, we are going to see the worst case scenario that was tually mentioned by german tabloid right before the war which i will be honest with you, outraged me. i could not believe this was going toe our reality but it

predicted as many as 50,000 civilians dead. so far -- we're talking maybe up to 5000 civilians dead and at the country. considering vladimir putin has not shown a decrease in appetite, bombing us, you know, just god knows how much more casualties we will suffer. amy: peter zalmayev, you mentioned the offramp for putin. what do you see that could be and what would be acceptable to the people of ukraine? >> an offramp, obviously, he is seeking at least on paper, seeking that you declare a neutral status, sort of legislation that has been bandied about. official decision to stop pursuing nato membership. i think those are very doable. i do not believe there really

what have been motivating vladimir putin in invading ukraine. i think it is a very old school, 19th-century war of subjugation, land conquest that we're seeing from vladimir putin, the guy who does not use internet and very much mired in his own old-school thinking of military glory and conquest. but at least on paper, their official displeasure has been nato expansion, as you know, all along. that is something ukraine has already said it is willing to compromise on. i think it is willing to announce it will be neutral and basically move away from nato membership process. once again, whether that will satisfy vladimir putin, i am not sure because also connected with it are security guarantees that ukraine needs to get from russia in return. in 1994, a memorandum was signed

in which ukraine would turn over its nuclear weapons in exchange for security guarantees. what we're sick now is how much work that paper was worth that it was written on. what kind of security guarantees will ukraine receive this time? vladimir putin was to establish a new status well, get more of ukraine's territory. ideally, he was to cut ukraine out from all access to the sea and then start negotiating. that is not a viable construct for ukraine. i do not think so. vladimir putin, whatever paper you sign, whatever agreement you reach, the russian side has shown it cannot be trusted. amy: peter zalmayev, you are a television host. i am wondering if you can talk about the meaning of what just happened in moscow. you have the state tv employee, longtime producer there, who stood up behind the presenter

and held a "no war sign" in english and russian. she had prepared in advance -- her name is marina ovsyannikova. a statement where she was ring a necklace that is red and white and blue and blue and yellow for the ukraine and russian colors. she has disappeared. it seems she habeen arrested. it is not clear. people have not been in touch with her. the significance of this protest? also of the mass russian antiwar protest? what does that mean to you as a ukrainian? >> well, it means quite a bit. we are definitely worried about this lad this journalist, our calling. even mine, russia has enacted this draconian law that envisions 15 years in prison for

just such actions that you mentioned by this reporter. 15 years in jail for during to criticize the government. even calling it a war may land you in prison simply because the russian side refuses to call it what it is, and the official term is "special operation." we have heard one very well-known anchor on another channel has stepped down. but as far as leading to a domino effect, it also try to overcome this informational blockade that vladimir putin has imposed on russia. that is doubtful. that is a one off i think. it led in ukraine to suspicions about the motivations of this and who the owner of the channel

is and how maybe there try to position themselves to win an indulgence in the west, to be able to flee to the west, to not have sanctions, to point to this lady and say, "see? this is what we did." i want to take it at its face value and say what this lady did is really hard to understand from anyone who is not in russia. amy: peter zalmayev, thank you for being with us, director of the eurasia democracy initiative and we just have 10 seconds, but the prime ministers of slovenia, poland, as well as the czech republic, coming to meet with zelinski in ukraine's capital, where you are in kyiv? >> credible vote of confidence in kyiv and ukraine and the ability of ukraine to hold the capital and a show of support. we need as much of that as we can. amy: peter zalmayev, thank you

for being with us, hosting a television program in ukraine based outside of kyiv. coming up, joshua yaffa is with us of "the new yorker." he has just left ukraine. his latest piece, "what the russian invasion has done to ukraine." he will take us on his journey. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: ukrainian violinists sheltering from the war are joined by professional violinists around ukraine and they are joined on zoom by professional violinists from around the world each with her little flag of their country. the collaboration included these video sent by 94 violinists from 29 countries in just 48 hours. for our radio listeners, go to democracynow.org and check it out. this is democracy now! i'm amy goodman. as we continue our coverage of

russia's invasion of ukraine, we're joined by joshua yaffa, contributing writer to "the new york or" and just left ukraine this weekend after reporting on the russian invasion for the past two weeks. his latest piece is headlined "what the russian invasion has done to ukraine." he's also author of the book "between two fires: truth, ambition, and compromise in putin's russia." joshua, welcome back to democracy now! no soundbites here. take is on your journey, among the places you go to our the hospitals of ukraine, and what this invasion means for so many vulnerable people. >> thank you for the invitation and happy to be with you today. i started this current reporting trip in ukraine where i have been many times over the years, going to ukraine the last decade on successive reporting trips. really come to love the city of kyiv and the people and much of

the country i got to see in those years. this time i started my journey in early february -- this is still several weeks before the invasion began -- when it was difficult for people both in moscow and in kyiv to believe such a thing was possible. in kyiv, people were not skeptical of the possibly of invasion because they had in illusions or doubts about the intention of vladimir putin regarding their country, but simply the thought of a wholesale or large-scale land invasion with russian forces streaming into the country from several sides with error rates, missile strikes, and so on seemed and it a believable prospect. it stayed that way right until the days before the invasion. i think the seriousness and likelihood and even eminence of the war really only sunk in for the three or four days before it began. i myself had gone to donbas in

eastern ukraine, an area that has seen war with russia for many years since way back to 2014 when having annexed crimea, russia launched a would-be separatist war backing rebel militias in the donbas leading to a war that really went on into the current day. a war that never really ended but was limited to the eastern territories in the donbas region of ukraine. many people, myself included, thought if there were to be a new invasion, it would probably start in the donbas, emanate out of these regions that have already seen fighting between ukrainian forces and russian forces and russian-backed proxies. i was in the donbas on the eve of the work i'm expecting of there would be an escalation it would happen there. instead, i was woken up at 5 a.m. to the thunderous sound of

missile strikes hitting the city where i was at the time. when i woke up at 5:00 a.m. to the sounds of these missile strikes eating nearby, -- hitting nearby, i open my phone and so on the one hand that putin was delivering this early-morning speech in moscow declaring the start of what he calls a special military operation but what in fact was clearly an invasion, clearly a war, and that strikes were happening all over, in kyiv, areas that few thought the russian invasion would reach. from there, very quickly, we understood the scale of this attack and the scale of russia's intentions, what putin was try to achieve here i think in the early part of the war as you have discussed on the show prior, putin was looking to do

regime change. he wanted to overthrow with military force the government of zelenskiy and install the pro-russian regime. the way to do that first and foremost was taking the capital, taking kyiv and also decimating ukrainian military infrastructure and seizing other ukrainian cities. once i understood the true scale of this invasion and its aims already on the first day, having woken up to the sound of bombs in my area,, my way to kyiv with some colleagues, photographer that i was working with. it took us two days to reach kyiv driving my car allhe way from donbas with highways clogged with families trying to flee the fighting. ukrainian military equipment, tanks and armor, going in the other direction trying to reach the front. eventually we made our way to kyiv where i spent the next 10

days waiting for a siege the never quite happen. your previous guest spoke to the fact russian forces on a number of sides had surrounded kyiv with heavy fighting going on to the northwest, some to the east, increasingly to the west, the southern direction remained open -- that is a key artery, in fact, the only way in or out of the capital and how i eventually left. kyiv was a city transformed. i have been away for only four or five days since i departed on my trip to the donbas on the eve of the war. i return to a ghost town, really, city marked by checkpoints. every few hundred meters in some cases. whether they were manned by ukrainian soldiers or members of the so-called territorial defense forces -- these are volunteer fighters. they have received tens of thousands of volunteers since

the start of the war, people who some weeks ago were i.t. programmers, school teachers. one person i met had worked in a company manufacturing equipment for the agricultural sector. all who had undergone minimal training and taken up weapons and know times for much more and being sent out if not to the front lines, at least two guard their own neighborhoods and stand at checkpoints. kyiv is a city under curfew. in the early days, it was difficult to find a for muscle -- our mistake, a grocery store. there is a feeling any day now the russians could enter. that was certainly the military prognosis in the early days. it is been a surprise i think to the russian army, to putin, perhaps ukrainians themselves, the degree to which the ukrainian military -- if you look a place like kyiv -- able to keep russians from entering the city. tragic fighting happening in a

number of suburban towns. where we have seen fighting that has left civilians dead, destroyed much of the city infrastructure, people's homes. but as i have said, that fighting -- at least on a large scale -- has not entered kyiv itself. i saw evidence of a number of firefights that had in fact happen inside the center of the city. these were attempts by russian forces to penetrate quickly and stealthily into the capital, but they were repelled by ukrainian forces. it seems like with russia unable to succeed in what the former ukrainian defense minister called a kind of raid, special operation to quickly seize kyiv and replace zelenskiy, they have changed tactics and switch to bombardment, missile strikes, airstrikes that by definition are indiscriminate and really laying waste to cities like

kharkiv and northeast and mariupol to the south and having a real toll on the outskirts of kyiv and increasingly, kyiv with strikes in the center of the city. those strikes are of course affecting civilians, first and foremost. you mentioned my time in the children's hospital in kyiv. this is a premier facility in the whole country for treating children before the war. it was the main center that accepted children from all over the country with various types of cancer, neurological disorders, other serious ailments that needed urgent care. i visited this hospital on multiple occasions in my time in kyiv and got to know some of the doctors. i walked toward and so injured children whose faces were scarred and bloodied, the victim of shelling attacks, had shrapnel strike th in their neck and face.

their family members were also in the hospil. i saw young 13-year-old with his face bandaged and his mother also injured lying next to them. their other family members had died in this attack. there was a young boy who i went to see with one of the doctors on my first trip to the hospital and he was riding in his family's car when it came under shelling attack. his parents died immediately. the boy was brought to the children's hospital. no one knew his identity for several days. he was known as "unknown patient number one." eventually, the doctors were able to reach his grandmother who they learned his name. he was in a coma with little brain activity. his face and much of his body wrapped in bandages. when i returned to the hospital two days later, i saw the same doctor in the hallway and asked about the boy's condition and he

told me the boy had died, had succumbed to his injuries. these are just a small sampling of the kind of suffering facing civilians in kyiv, and even more in other cities like kharkiv under incredible aerial environment. the center of this historic city turned into something that resembled some thing like stalingrad. mariupol, extraneous figures about thousands of civilian casualties, perhaps one in 40 of the prewar population of that city now dead. e suffering i saw in kyiv just offers a small portal into what is happening in dozens of cities all over ukraine right now. amy: your story is truly astounding. as you tell us the story about ukraine, back in moscow, i wanted to get your response to the just astounding bravery of this employee, longtime russia stayed on television station,

channel one, bursting onto the set during monday evenings lies -- live news broadcast holding a sign reading "no war" in russian and english "don't , believe the propaganda. they're lying to you here." the protester is channel one producer and editor marina ovsyannikova who appeared on-screen for several seconds shouting, "stop the war. no to war!" before the camera cuts away. so can you talk about -- we don't know where she is right now. but the significance of this? she says she's been part of the propaganda machine for a long time. also explain the concept of what the russian propagandists called --

>>ou are right this was an extraordinarily brave act. before i talk about what -- this mome from first channel yesterday, i want to say brave things or heroic things can be done by non-heroic people. i think the real bravery and a russian journalism in recent years has been done by those who continue to work or independent outlets telling the truth about what was happening in russia and abroad. tv rain, bbc russia, outlets that are now banned in russia, forced to close with their staff scattering all over the world facing legal repercussions. i think this act committed by a channel one producer who admitted herself she was part of the propaganda machine for many years, isn't an isolated eyed to bravery and she should

be committed for but i don't want to be confused or say this after bravery clips is the much more persistent and long-standing dedicated exit bravery committed by russian journalists who were never part of the propaganda machine. that said, this action shows clearly something is afoot inside the system. there is dissatisfaction, even dissent bubbling to the service that those who are part and parcel of this propaganda machine, at least some of them, are beginning to have their doubts. see if this is the first of many such actions or it remains an isolated case. we will see also i think whether or not others follow in her footsteps will depend in large measure on the kind of penalty faced by this channel one producer maria. if she is thrown the full force of the law, these new repressive laws that were passed by the russian parliament and signed by putin in a recent weeks, given a sentence of 10 or 15 years, i think that will have an extraordinary chilling effect.

if this remains an isolated actor bravery, it will be one for the history books, but i don't think it will necessarily change the actual political or informational environment inside russia. amy: the significance of the protests outside, where what, up to 15,000 russians have been arrested? have you ever seen anything like this? do you see the possibility of putin being taken down by this? >> yes, i have seen someing like this in the 10 years or so i spent covering russia beginning in 2012. this was at a time of the so-called protesting for the square in moscow where they began. you sell 100,000 people out in the street to protest fraudulent elections and the return of putin to the kremlin. those protests were the largest russia as seen in the entire

post-soviet period. i am not really clear what if anything they lead to, unfortunately, as much as we would like to believe in people power, the protest were eventually put down. it took many years to see anything similar crop up again. we saw a large-scale protest last year after the poisoning and the arrest of alexei navalny, the most high-profile opposition leader. in this case, unlike the protest it into a few large cities, we saw national protests all over the country happening in dozens of cities. that was marking an unprecedented degree of political demonstration in russia. but again, i'm not sure that led to any real political change. alexei navalny just today is again on trial. prosecutors are asking an additional 13 years of prison to be added onto a sentence. i think it is clear this point as long as putin is in power,

navalny will remain in prison. i am not sure these large protests last year had much of an effect in limiting the kremlin's behavior or actions perhaps only intensifying the belief among putin and other top officials in the need to put on even the slightest manifestation of disagreement or protest with the harshest possible method. now thanks to the new suite of laws i mentioned, the consequences for protesting the war have become even more serious. people can be sent to prison for three years to six years or more. let's see if some of those 15,000 people who were arrested -- very brave people -- go out considering the legal risk they face. but i am afraid that street protests, at least the possibility come the likelihood come the kind of street protests were likely to see given the limitations, given the legal terror of the kremlin is able to use against them, i just don't see that being a limiting factor

in their kremlin's actions. vladimir putin, by launching this war in ukraine, has raised the stakes immensely for himself also brush or under extreme air sanctions. many economist are expecting another two to three months and there could be a near total collapse of the russian economy, perhaps default on russian sovereign debt. putin has raised the stakes for himself so extra nearly high i don't think he will be convinced to back down based on something like street protests. in fact, i think he will feel the impulse or the urge to double down both in ukraine and at home, having raised the stakes to raise them even further before he goes like he can exit the situation. amy: finally, the increasing calls for a no-fly zone. it is clear why the west does not want this. direct confrontation could lead to a new there were. you have zelensky about to address the u.s. congress on wednesday.

can you talk about this and the road you think needs to be taken right now? >> sure. what is really striking to me is how many ordinary people in ukraine are talking about no-fly zones. so many of my interviews and meetings across the country over the past weeks, knowing i was american and worked for an american magazine, this was the first thing many people wanted talk about. itas fascinating the degree to which this idea has spread among the ukrainian people, not just the military, but ordinary people i met, for example, the grocery store, wanted to talk about a no-fly zone. i think that is a manifestation of other things of zelensky mentioni this so often in his addresses, really creating the groundswell of momentum both inside ukraine and internationally to try to push for this measure -- which of course would have an effect. it is not just a symbolic measure, but i think a real one given the fact much of the violence russia is perpetrating

on ukraine is coming from the air. another question is how much is coming from -- delivered by fighter jets and bombers versus miile strikes. it is one thing to have a no-fly zone that would not permit airplanes to fly, another is to protect against missile and rocket attacks -- which are more difficult technical thing to block than bringing down aircraft. in talking about what a no-fly zone would entail, it is important to remember the technical military details of what we're talking about here. a no-fly zone is not a kind of magical spell you cast over the skies of ukraine so planes can fly. it is the commitment to use military force to shoot down those planes. it is an act of war, essentially. therefore, it is understandable why the biden administration is wary of not refusing to commit itself to enter the war. that is what installing a no-fly

zone would mn. that is what implementing a no-fly zone would entail, until american military strikes against russian military targets. that is effectively the united states entering the war. i think are understandable reasons as you mentioned the desire to avoid a nuclear exchange. amy: we just have 20 seconds. >> what might be possible, some people a talking about other technical means, could there be a technical solution to scramble or make difficult the flying of airplanes over ukrainian airspace using cyber or technical means. that is one possibility. another is a supply of antiaircraft weapons to ukraine so it would be ukrainians using this equipment to bring down russian aircraft. i think that was still be really coroversial for russia but not nearly as much is america doing it itself. amy: joshua yaffa, thank you for being with us, contributing writer to "the new yorker" and recently just come out of

ukraine. we will link to your piece "what the russian invasion has done to ukraine." josh is author of "between two fires: truth, ambition, and compromise in putin's russia." next up, we look at the biden administration refusing to directly condemn saudi arabia for executing 81 men this weekend in its largest mass execution ever and what the biden administration relationship is with saudi arabia. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "right wrong" by the ukrainian singer and dj ivan dorn and french singer and songwriter victor solf. this is democracy now! i'm amy goodman. we end today show looking at saudi arabia. they put to death 81 men in the span of hours. among those executed were people arrested for participating in human rights demonstrations. rights groups say many of the defendants were denied access to a lawyer, held incommunicado, and tortured. while human rights groups have condemned the executions, the abaddon -- the vines responses been more muted. on monday, ned price was asked

about the u.s. response. >> does the united states also condemned the execution? >> we have seen these reports that saudi arabia executed 81 people on march 12. we continue to raise with saudi arabia the need to ensure fair trial guarantees, freedom from arbitrary and extra judicial attention, transpancy, the ru ofaw, and freedom of religion and belief. amy: this comes as u.k. prime minister johnson is expected to travel to saudi arabia for talks with bin salman to push the world's top oil exporter for increased output as he called on the west tend its "aiction” to russian fuel. also possible visit by president biden to "help repair relations." for more, we're joined by sarah leah whitson, executive director of democracy for the arab world now. a group founded by jamal khashoggi who was assassinated

in 2013. she's involved in a lawsuit representing his fiancée for that murder. can you talk about what happened this weekend? and then the biden administration according mohammed bin salman? >> it is very clear the saudi government. they could take advantage of the ukraine crisis to quietly carry out this execution of 81 people in the country, not worried really there would be a serious international reaction -- both because of ukraine crisis, but also because of the fact western governments, including the united states and the united kingdom, are basically pleading with mohammed bin salman to increase oil production. really was away for mohammed bin salman to demonstrate he could do whatever he wants, including engaging in this shocking act of bloodletting against 81 people in saudi arabia in a single day. amy: and who they are, the men

who were killed? >> we have limited information. we know seven of the men were yemenis, believed to be prisoners of war. there was one syrian national among them. the remainder appears to be saudi citizens, 41 of whom we believed to be from a minority community in the country. amy: sarah leah whitson, can you talk about the white house's response to this mass execution, the largest in saudi modern history, and how that fits into both the biden administration, the british prime minister going to saudi arabia, possibly biden, to repair relations? >> it is pathetic. it is for all the world is the at a time when president biden is trying to rally support among international community for international laws, international norms, human rights -- all of the principles he has invoked in ukraine, he is

choosing not to invoke in saudi arabia. the executions of 81 man is among them. when iran executed an iranian wrestler unfairly, the u.s. not only condemned it repeatedly, but sanctioned the judges involved in that case. the contrast with saudi arabia cannot be starker. while it is clear the united states things that can try to woo mohammed bin salman to increase production of oil, the damage being done to america's credibility, the damage being done to the very international laws and norms the united states is now clinging to to rally support is tremendous. it is really the persistent failure of the biden administration and the administration before it to see the global cost that we are paying to paper over, look the other way, what are so-called partners imminently carry out atrocities of their own. amy: before we go, and we will

do part two with you and put it online at democracynow.org, if you can talk about the lawsuit you are involved with and what it means to mohammed bin salman? >> well, our lawsuit is a lawsuit that my organization dawn is bringing together here in u.s. district court for the murder of bin salman, the damage he caused and doing that, as well as the damage to our organization. amy: the murder of jamal khashoggi. >> yes. bin salman has tried to dismiss the complaint but now he continues to seek that president biden exempt him under the principles of sovereign immunity, even though the biden administration said repeatedly he is not head of state and therefore under u.s. laws, would not be entitled to sovereign immunity. mohammed bin salman is now demanding that the u.s. intervene in the and judiciary

to block our lawsuit. amy: 10 seconds. >> mohammed bin salman in exchange for increasing oil production. it is a shocking ever to intervene and judicial system. amy: we will talk more about this. check it out on democracynow.org . sarah leah whitson ■ú

♪ hello there and welcome to w nhk "newsline." i'm catherine kobayashi in new york. residents of kyiv have seen russian troops attack civilians in one city after another. they've seen those forces regain strength, then advance to the fringes of the capital. now, they're seeing some of the same horrors other ukrainians have endured.