♪ anchor: this is al jazeera. let's get around above the top stories purity ukrainian authorities say dozens of people have left the besieged and heavily bombarded city of mari upol. a civilian convoy which has been surrounded by russian soldiers for two weeks, 400,000 people are still traveled without food, water or electricity. several russian strikes have targeted ukraine's capital, kyiv. at least two people were killed when a nine story residential

building was struck despite moscow saying it is only focusing on military sites. the u.s. is warning china against helping the russian war efforts in ukraine. american and chinese officials met for talks in rome. u.s. officials had said china signaled it might aid russia. beijing denies this. the u.s. says china could face global isolation. >> should they provide military or other assistance, that of course violates sanctions or supports the war effort that there will be significant consequences. in terms of what the specifics look like, we would coordinate with partners and allies to make that determination. anchor: the u.n. secretary general has warned of what he called a hurricane of hunger in the war in ukraine. >> ukraine alone provides more than half of the world's food programs with supply. food, fuel and fertilizer prices are skyrocketing.

supply chains are being disrupted. and the costs and delays of transportation of imported goods , when available, are at record levels. in all of this is hitting the poorest the hardest. anchor: in other news, peru's congress has approved the start of impeachment proceedings against president pedro casteel. the opposition led congress voted 76 to 41 in favor of starting the political trial. castillo is facing allegations of corruption's, but denies the charges. his popularity has plunged since he took office in july. those are the headlines, inside story is next. >> are china and the u.s. sleepwalking their way into work? in the struggle over ukraine, here is the test for president joe biden. >> what putin is trying to do is reread the security architecture of europe. >> you have to walk and chew gum at the same time. >> your weekly take on politics

and society. >> that is the bottom line. >> could china help and russia's you -- russia's invasion of ukraine. china appears flipped between supporting moscow and condemning the war. so what are the options for chinese leaders? this is inside story. ♪ huell: hello and welcome to the program. i am --anchor: china is one of russia's closest allies and trading partners. tensions have pushed the neighbors even closer in recent years. but beijing has come under international pressure to dem the invasion of ukraine, which goes against its unstated principle of protecting sovereignty and noninterference. while russia's finance minister has suggested china could help lessen the impact of western economic sanctions, a third of

moscow's $640 billion in foreign reserves is held in chinese current the. the u.s. national made this warning before meeting china's top foreign policy advisor in italy. >> we have made it clear to not just beijing, but every country in the world, that if they think that they can basically bail russia out, they can give russia a workaround to the sanctions that we have imposed, they should have another thing coming. because we will ensure that neither china nor anyone else can compensate russia for these losses. anchor: u.s. media say it moscow has asked beijing for military help in ukraine. china's foreign ministry denied this calling the accusation disinformation. >> recently, the u.s. has been spreading disinformation against china in regards to ukraine. time after time, with tensions. china's position on ukraine is consistent and clean. we have always played a constructive role in persuading peace and promoting talks.

anchor: we will bring in our guests in a moment. first, let's take a closer look at the ties between china and russia. the two neighbors share a border that is more than 4000 kilometers long. their economies, met one another with energy and raw materials going to china and industrial products heading to russia. both are united in a rivalry with the u.s. and their leaders often speak of their country historical greatness. president xi jinping and vladimir putin cleared a strategic partnership last month. they signed a so show minsk agreement, where they pledged to support each other. -- signed a so-called no limits agreement where they pledged to support each other. all right, let's bring in our guests. in beijing, andy, senior research fellow at the center for chinese and globalization. in brussels, teresa, director of asia studies. and in alexandria virginia, a

former u.s. deputy assistant secretary of defense. thank you for joining us on inside story. teresa, let me start with you today. could china actually help and russia's invasion of ukraine? is this something that is within the realm of possibility? teresa: after all, today is day 19. we have not seen china actually condemn russia's invasion of ukraine at all, so i think that has high representative joseph of the european union had reached out and said that china was the only country that could possibly do some mediation. i have not seen it moves on china's part. but of course, everyone wants a diplomatic and to this disaster, but i think what is more telling is what happened on february 4 with the joint agreement that was signed by president xi jinping which declared their relationship as beyond limits. so some analysts have seen this as a nonaggression pact.

shortly after that, vladimir putin was able to move his troops from russia's far east to ukraine. so he could not have done that without the tacit support of china. so china is walking a tight rope in all of this. it has economic interests with the west, big markets in europe and the u.s.. at the same time it has this arrangement with russia, so they are trying to speak out of both sides of their mouth, you could say. host: you heard teresa talk about this tight rope that china is having to walk right now. it does appear that beijing is split between supporting moscow and condemning the war. what are the options right now for chinese leaders? andy: well, i think china has been very clear on this. i think teresa is engaging in a little bit of fallacious thinking or at least fallacious argumentation here. in that i think china absolutely has called for a peaceful resolution to the situation in ukraine. condemning russia would be

choosing a side. and i think what the situation really needs as some have said multiple times, is cool restraint. not to exacerbate the situation. we need to recognize also that certainly china, like russia, like many other countries around the world, face a very challenging situation in dealing with a violent and really schizophrenic sociopathic country. if we were to describe the u.s. as a person. why schizophrenic? because it is fundamentally unreliable. we don't know every four years, there could be 180 degree policy shift, which makes it very, very difficult. the violent part of it of course, we have seen from a rock to afghanistan --iraq to afghanistan in recent years, causing intel cable damages in human casualties around the

world. it's a difficult situation. china is paying a positive role as our president put in the new york times today. there is a diplomatic offramp and i think china can play a positive role here. host: just to follow up quickly because i was going to ask you about that op-ed in the new york times. that is from your colleague at the center for china globalization. when it comes to this idea of an offramp with china's help, is this feasible? and is this a role that chinese leadership really wants to play right now? andy: well, i think that is a very, very good question, in that this is a very, very delicate, difficult situation, i think, for all countries involved. i think the big challenge here is quote unquote west, but certainly the u.s. has repeatedly, i think, not recognized the legitimacy of

russia's security concerns. and that this is really exacerbated the situation. and you know, it seems that the u.s. certainly is willing to fight russia down to the last ukrainian. and in this very volatile situation, i think every country can play a role. and china as a major power, certainly has called for a peaceful solution. host: teresa, i can see that you want to respond and i'm going to give you the chance. let me go to hino and ask what the u.s. expect from china right now? hino: the united states as well as the rest of the world and certainly the members of the united nations, expect china to play a productive role and when i say that, it reflects very clearly on china, its leadership, and the regime led by the ccp. and how it voted in the u.n.. it abstained. if the chinese want to actually

be a major power on the world stage and want to be what we used to refer -- the bush administration in a responsible stakeholder, china needs to the plate. remember, russia invaded another united nations member, a sovereign country. a country by the way that china had very good relationship with. a country that joined the ri back in 2017 if i am not mistaken. and we see the brutality of the russian invasion that, in my opinion, the chinese are complicit in, because at a minimum, they knew that the russians were going to do that. based on their own intelligence capabilities and their own very special relationship with russia. host: teresa i'm going to give you a chance to respond. i also saw that you were nodding ahead to some of what he said as well. so just go ahead and jump in. teresa: i think beijing is trying to do a very carefully

cultivated ambiguous pose. and one of their number one foreign policy issues is not to use force, but to change orders. russia did that,t, but they choe to ignore that. that is one of their key pillars of their foreign policy, so they are really willing to take a lot from the russians. in addition to that, the chinese ambassador has announced that this is a great opportunity for china to buy a lot of things in russia, because there are all these sanctions. companies are leaving russia. we see a long list of different organizations willing to leave russia. so the chinese are looking at it as a fire sale, as a great opportunity for them. so i think that they have seen a very diminished russia. on their doorstep. so if you look, we are at the smallest little piece right now and this is much too china's benefit. we saw after 2014 after russia's annexation of crimea, russia turned more towards china,

created energy deals, knocked down prices. and in the february 4 agreement, we saw in that agreement, it's in black and white and available to everyone free. it is not salacious or fallacious, i don't know which adjective you are using, but i think this is black and white. we see where russia and china stood. he said they were creating the new contours of the international order. so we sought this relationship they've met with each other 38 times and discussed the relationship between vladimir putin and xi jinping as the best of 300 years. let's are member xi jinping spoke to putin after the invasion. -- let's are. he did not speak to the ukrainian leader. we have to keep this in mind, and i think china would like to rebrand themselves as a peacemaker. but we are on day 19 and the big asks now will be that russia's assets which are in chinese banks should be sanctioned. this will be the real bellwether of china's role on the international stage. will they allow their banks to be chinese russian assets to be

sanctioned to chinese banks? host: it looked like he wanted to jump in. i want to follow-up with you on something you mentioned a moment ago, that abstention. unsc by china when it comes to that resolution that would have deplored russia's invasion of ukraine. the reason i want to ask about that is because that was taken to mean different things by different players. some interpreted it as a dip o-matic win by russia. some said it was a diplomatic and by the west. do you believe it was a diplomatic win for either the west or russia and why? hino: i think it's indicative of china walking that tight rope, quite frankly. but at a certain point in the nation's history, countries and their leaders need to make choices. does the prc want to be on the side of vladimir putin, who has launched an invasion against a number of its neighbors? georgia, ukraine, europe, as well as participate in the

brutal suppression of people in syria and other places in the world. or does china want to be on the side of the vast majority of the countries that voted for that resolution. i think it is a win in that at least the chinese did not align themselves with north korea, belarus, and euro trio. that is a win, but how reflective is that of the strategic calculus that is going on? host: andy, is there any concern? i will let you jump in and then i will ask my question. andy: well, i want to make a couple of points here. first, i think teresa talks about this very important notion of sovereignty, which china makes a cornerstone of its foreign policy. but i think some people perhaps being mischievous or some people perhaps not fully recognizing

the complexities of the situation in ukraine is that china can respect sovereignty while also acknowledging that sovereignty can be forfeit when a country acts in a way as to be so threatening to a neighboring country that some action has to be taken. and i think that we can accept this more nuanced view as legitimate, without taking a position on whether what ukraine did rises to that level. and i think the other thing that we risk falling into, i think a very typical u.s. binary way of thinking, is that there is only two sides. you're either with us or against us. and i think what china has shown is that there is a third way. and china is saying we hope we are inside of peaceful development. we hope that every country that has some steak, whether that's economic, political,

humanitarian, really should do what it can to foster a peaceful solution here. and i think this is the key issue. that the framing is problematic. and very typical of the way the u.s. approaches things. it support to point out, it's not the whole world here that is on the side of the u.s. and western europe. india also abstained. the uae as well. india is making active preparations for a ruby ruble settlement system. so there really is a third point of view here, that perhaps is the most effective and likely way out of this terrible situation. host: let me ask you this is a follow up. if this continues to drag on, is there a growing concern among officials in china that if china continues to stand by russia, at

some point, the costs are going to outweigh the benefits? andy: well, again, i would question that premise, mohammed. that is china standing by russia? certainly teresa is correct. in early february, presidents xi jinping and vladimir putin did sign and announce a relationship that often is described in the media as no limits. a new kind of relationship. and that is not, i think mutually exclusive with wanting to see a peaceful solution be un-honest broker -- via an honest broker. perhaps was as a comp lead situation, everyone from george kennan, to henry kissinger to john deere shiner has said, including u.s. ambassador's, priebus ambassadors have said that what the u.s. is doing in ukraine clearly is a provocation

that is going to cause this kind of reaction from russia sooner or later. and as a chinese like to say, perhaps some self reflection is in order here. mohammed: from your vantage point, what is china going to be expecting from russia? and, you know, you mentioned earlier that so far, chinese banks, financial entities, have not cut ties with russia. is there a scenario where you think that could happen at some point? teresa: that remains to be seen. how china response to the international community. china is not helping whatsoever on sanctions. we know that. so when the international community asks them to support the sanctions, i think that would be a bellwether whether they are really end international player and if they have good intentions. i think that the fact that this agreement was february 4 and the invasion took place on the 23rd speaks volumes. we also know that china started

to fill their strategic petroleum reserve spr attribute in -- after meeting with fiber put in. and also buying grain and wheat. understanding, most likely, that a war was on its way. so i think that as hino pointed out, ukraine had good relations with china, so they are not much of a friend, are they? china got their first aircraft carrier from the ukrainians. and they said it was going to be a casino. so we have seen a lot of deception in this relationship and let's not forget, the way this is being framed by andy is pretty much what the russians are saying. so it is almost a magnification of the disinformation. most analysts see the invasion of ukraine as unprovoked. and i think that to say that ukraine has no sovereignty, is not a country, that is definitely right out of russia's narrative and lastly, the final point i would like to make in regard to disinformation, we have seen a chinese officials, it was printed, they wrote a

quote from the high representative, joseph perella of the eu, saint chiat was a peaceloving superpower. but he never said that. so this disinformation machine is rolling on. host: hino, would you consider -- andy, i will let you make your point in a moment. let me ask a question here. how did the u.s. and western allies feel about having china potentially play a role in ds quitting this conflict? -- he escalating this conflict. hino: if china were to play a positive role, it would be welcomed. many of us who have spent their professional lives working with the chinese and the chinese government and the chinese commonest party are not particularly optimistic. the chinese will view this as an opportunistic chance to better their position, both bilaterally with russia, taking advantage of

the straits that the russians find themselves in as well as the place and role vis-a-vis the united states and europe. not just europe, but the west, meaning other countries such as japan and australia. i think fundamentally, we cannot lose sight of the fact that what we see today is a blatant violation of national sovereignty, of the territorial integrity of ukraine. and the russians are launching a brutal onslaught against the civilian population in ukraine. the fact that ukraine is a sovereign country with a president that was elected by the people, wanted to have closer relationships with the european union and nato, should not have been a causeless belly to necessitate a war with russia's putting in troops and

killing ukrainian siblings. mohammed: russia's finance minister had suggested that china could help lessen the impact of western economic sanctions. how much will china be able to help russia economically? andy: well, i want to respond to teresa's point about russian disinformation. i mean, teresa would you then consider again henry kissinger, john near shy merit, several former u.s. ambassador's who have said the exact same thing also purveyors of russian disinformation? and i would say certainly the loss of life in ukraine is tragic. but is it any more brutal than the u.s. attacks against afghanistan? where countless civilians, woman, children were killed and maimed and made homeless. is it any less brutal? mohammed: let me ask you.

do you think there is a scenario that exists whereby china would cut ties with russia? not just economic ties, diplomatic ties, condemned the invasion of ukraine, the conflicts going on. and if so, what would china stand to lose or gain as a result? teresa: i thing the international committee would love to see china's support -- i think the international committee would like to see them support important issues, but their actions so far on day 19 have proven that they are not doing that. and that they are trying -- it would be welcome. but i think what they have not -- it has been a stress test and they actually did a lot of, because russia, whether done ukraine, china can watch how the international committee has responded. and i think we are not expecting to see such a united west. they expected to see a divided europe, maybe a week into nato. and we have even seen neutral

countries like switzerland traditionally neutral actually join in on sanctions of the banks and also, we have seen neutral countries like sweden said lethal aid to ukraine. so the world is changing and i think china job better wake up to what is happening and that is the idea of a third wave. there is law and there is against law. so either they support the international community and the united nations and what they have signed up to. in addition to that, beijing also signed an agreement to guarantee ukraine's sovereignty. it was a side agreement along with the budapest memorandum in 1984. so the prc is not honoring their agreement there either. so i think that it's all nice to say these things diplomatically, but what are they really doing? i think now is the time. and i think the meeting that will take place in rome will really show whether china is actually ready to do something or if they're just going to talk

about it. mohammed: is there a lot of concern among american officials right now that china would be able to lessen the impact of economic sanctions on russia? they would be able to help blunt the impact on russia through workarounds? or through economic support? hino: that is certainly a concern and the unfortunate history of chinese enforcement of sanctions, united nations opposed sanctions against other countries such as north korea has not been particularly stellar. so there is certainly a precedent for the chinese not enforcing sanctions. i think what we see today in europe, what russia's actions have done in terms of pushing more and more countries towards wanting to integrate with the european union, wanting to integrate with nato and diplomatically, for instance,

doing unprecedented things, again, such as the case with switzerland that teresa mentioned rid should also serve as a parallel example to china, because in the asian-pacific, we have seen over the last several years chinese actions pushing more and more countries to start to form a war against chinese aggression. chinese assertiveness and chinese economic coercion. and i think what we will find is that those trends, which are not favorable to china, will continue. and what will be necessary to stop those types of trends will be for china to start becoming more productive and opposing maligned activities. mohammed: we have run out of time so we are going to have to leave the conversation there. thank you for our guests. andy, teresa and hino. thank you for watching trade you can see

the program any time by watching our website at al jazeera.com. for further discussion, go to facebook.com/a.j. inside story. you can join the conversation on twitter. our heddle is at a.j. inside story. -- our handle is a.j. inside story. on behalf of the whole team here, goodbye for now. here, goíñíñe for now.

bonnie: a pelmenitsa is a round piece of kitchen equipment with 37 hexagons all in a honeycomb pattern, and you use it to make pelmeni. it's really efficient because before then, you'd have to shape them each my hand. my parents immigrated with their pelmenitsa, so they clearly thought it was important enough to, like, add to their cargo, which was limited. pelmeni originated in siberia. you would form them by hand, and you would throw them out the window into the snow, and they would freeze. as refrigeration