03/24/22 03/24/22 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> nobody -- maybe it will be baltic states, but even those countries from the border with russia, of those countries are not say.

amy: nato, the g7, and the european council are holding emergency summits today as the russian invasion of ukraine enters its second month. nato has already doubled its troops in eastern europe and moving to send more. >> the fact is we face security crisis in a generation and nato needs to respond and that is the reason why we need to -- long-term. amy: we will speak to anatol lieven of the quincy institute. then to the confirmation hearings for supreme court justice nominee ketanji brown jackson. she appears poised to become the first black woman on the supreme court. >> today you are my star. you are my harbinger of hope. this country is getting better and better and better. when that final vote happens and you ascend to the highest court

of the land, i am going to rejoice. amy: we will air part of senator cory booker's remarks and talk to legalist analyst imani gandy and dahlia lithwick. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. the united nations says more than half of ukraine's children have been forced to flee their homes in the month since russia invaded ukraine. it's one of the largest mass displacements of children since the second world war. this morning, ukraine's military said it destroyed a large russian landing ship docked in the occupied city of berdyansk on the black sea. in northern ukraine, about 150,000 residents of chernihiv are without heat and electricity and have been forced to ration drinking water after russia bombed a key bridge linking the

city to the capital kyiv. city officials have accused russian forces of holding chenihiv hostage amid fears it could suffer the same fate as mariupol, the besieged black sea port city that's been devastated by weeks of russian attacks. on wednesday, mariupol residents emerged from bomb shelters to bury their dead as warmer weather allowed them to dig temporary graves. this is victoria, whose stepfather was killed by russian troops. >> my stepfather, he was in that car and it blew him up. he got wounded and then a doctor and a young guy with him started helping and they got blown up in the car. it has gotten warmer so now we can bury him. amy: on wednesday, russi reporter oksana baulina was killed by russian artillery fire alongside another civilian, while reporting in the capital kyiv. on wednesday, the u.s. state department formally declared that russia's military has

committed war crimes in ukraine. thu.s. expelled 12ussian diplomats to the united nations, accusing them of espionage. ssia said it would expel u.s. diplomats in response. president biden is in brussels for an emergency nato summit. nato has announced it is sending more troops to bulgaria, hungary, romania, and slovakia. over the past month, the number of nato troops in eastern europe has reached about 40,000 -- double the number from just a month ago. on wednesday, russian foreign minister sergey lavrov condemned poland's proposal to send nato peacekeeping forces into ukraine, saying that would lead to a direct clash between russian troops and nato forces. german chancellor olaf scholz has once again rejected calls to boycott russian oil and gas, saying the cost to germany's economy will be too high. scholz spoke wednesday at the bundestag, the german parliament. >> we will end this as quickly as possible, but that would mean

flinging our country and the whole of europe into a recession . hundreds of thousands of jobs would be at risk. amy: germany gets about a third of the oil it consumes from russia and about half of its coal and natural gas. on wednesday, activists with greenpeace painted the slogans "oil fuels war" and "oil is war" on the side of a massive russian tanker in the baltic sea delivering 100,000 tons of crude to a port in rotterdam. >> since the war started, over 230 tankers had left russian oil and oil products, meaning it is almost business as usual and it finances putin's war against ukraine. amy: the u.s. supre court has rejected newtate legislative maps drawn uby wiscoin goveor tony ers and cepted by the wisconsin supreme court which is a major win for republicans. the new map added one black-majority assembly district in the milwaukee area. the ruling is the first time t u.s. supreme cou overturd ate-drawmaps thi restrictincycle.

justice sonia sotomayor, who dissented on the ring alongside justice elena kagan, called the majority's decision unprecedente in more supreme court news, republican senators on the judiciary committee ramped up their attacks on nominee judge ketanji brown jackson during her final day of questioning wednesday. jackson, who is the first black woman nominated to the high court, was accused by lindsey graham of judicial activism and grilled by josh hawley on a child pornography case. we will have the latest on the hearings later in the broadcast. this comes as justice clarence thomas, the longest currently-serving member of the court, missed oral arguments again wednesday after being hospitalized for seven days with an unspecified infection. idaho has become the first state to enact a law modeled on texa'' near-total ban on abortions. republican governor brad little signed the bill wednesday, which bans abortions after around six weeks of pregnancy and allows anyone biologically related to the fetus to sue abortion providers if they defy the law.

the only exceptions are in cases of medical emergency, rape, or incest, but the latter two require the patient to have reported a crime to police. also on wednesday, oklahoma lawmakers passed a total abortion ban that would be enforced by bounty hunter-style lawsuits. these latest attacks on reproductive rights, nearly seven months after taxes enacted a near-total ban on abortions. amy littlefield, abortion access correspondent for the nation magazine, says nearly half of all patients who left texas and traveled out of state for their abortion have gone to oklahoma. >> now the oklahoma house has passed a total ban on abortion. it pains abortion at fertilization, before pregnancy even in plas in the uterus. if it is passed by the senate as i'm of the governor, it would take effect immediately. one noteworthy thing about ts law, it defines woman as any person who's biological sex is

female regardless of gender identity. we see the intersection of the antiabortion and anti-trans agenda rolleinto thi bill that would decimate abortion access in the region. amy: moderna says it will ask the fda to approve emergency use of its covid-19 shot in children between six months and six years of age. moderna says a clinical trial showed two lower-doses of its vaccine given four weeks apart produced a robust immune response in young children. in afghanistan, the taliban closed schools for girls above the sixth grade, just hours after they reopened, ordering students home after they showed up for classes. this is 16-year-old khadija from kabul, one of the many students who was told she had to go home after she excitedly arrived for her first day back in class on wednesday. >> it was like a day of mour ning, a very sad day.

everyone was crying. the girls were hugging and crying and saying goodbye. even if it would be very difficult, i still wanted to be a doctor. i like doctors white coats. but now i cannot do anything. my future is ruined. amy: south korea and japan say north korea has test-fired a new type of intercontinental ballistic missile capable of delivering a nuclear warhead. if confirmed, it would be north korea's first test launch ofn icbm since 2017. in washington, d.c., howard univsity faculty have called off a planned three-day strike after agreeing to a tentative contract with the school's administration. faculty members have been demanding fair wages and improved working conditions for nontenure-track and adjunct educators. meanwhile, in sacramento, california, thousands of teachers and school staff went on strike wednesday over low pay and staffing shortages. in minneapolis, over 4500 educators enter their 17th day on strike as negotiations with the school district continue. here in new york, over 1000

immigrant workers and supporters held a protest at the state capitol in albany wednesday calling on lawmakers to include $3 billion in the new york state budget to support immigrant workers who are excluded from federal pandemic aid. advocates are also demanding the -- new york create a permanent program that provides unemployment insurance and health care benefits to undocumented workers. democracy now! spoke to miguel angel flores, a construction worker from mexico who has lived in the united states for 16 years. he was in a bus on his way back to brooklyn after wednesday's rally. he and manother workers began thr march to albany last week. >> we came to tell the governo we are awake, united, and will not stop until our needs are met. th movement an example to other states. immigrants across the country e risi up. we areemanding our rights be respected and to be treed just like any other citizen who pays

taxes. amy: and former secretary of state madeleine albright has died of cancer at the age of 84. she served as u.s. ambassador to the united nations from 1993 to 1997 when president bill clinton nominated her to become the first female secretary of state. albright was a staunch supporter of u.s. power and defender of authoritarian leaders, including egypt's hosni mubarak. in 1998, she joined president clinton's foreign policy team i now live see in an event promoting the administration's threat obama iraq into complying the demands of u.n. weapons inspectors. in an exchange between albright and teacher john strange was later billed by the media as the question heard around the world. >> what do you have to say about dictators and countries like

indonesia who we sell weapons to yet they are slaughtering people in east timor? what do you have to say that israel hua slaughtering palestinians imposed martial law? those are our allies? why do we sell weapons to these countries? why do we support them? why do we bomb iraq when it commits similar atrocities? [applause] >> there are various things that are not right in the united states is -- [jeers] >> i really am surprised that people feel it is necessary to defend the rights of saddam hussein. what we ought to be thinking about is how to make sure that he does not use weapons of mass destruction. amy: secretary of state albright defended the clinton administration's devastating sanctions against iraq.

in 1996, she was interviewed by lesley stahl on "60 minutes." >> we have heard half a million children have died. that is more children and died in hiroshima. is the price worth it? >> i think this is a very hard choice, but the price -- we ink the price is worth it. amy: in 2004, i had a chance to ask madeleine albright about those comments as she attended the democratic national convention in boston. secretary albright, the question i have always wanted to ask, do you regret having said when asked do you think the price was worth it -- >> 5000 times that i regret it. it was a stupid statement. i never should have made it. anyone else who's ever made a statement they regret, stand up, there would be a lot of people

standing. i have many, many times that it and i wish the people would report i have said it. i wrote in my book it was a stupid statement. amy: do you think it lays the groundwork for later being able to target a rack and make it more acceptable on the part of the bush administration? >> what? you've got to be kidding. amy: the sanctions against iraq. >> the sanctions were put on because saddam hussein had invaded kuwait, but there never were sanctions against food and medicine. you people need to know there were never sanctions against food and medicine. and i was responsible for getting food in there and getting saddam hussein to pump oil. amy: that was former secretary of state madeleine albright speaking to democracy now! in 2004. she died on wednesday at the age of 84. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. , nato, g-7, european council

are holding unprecedented emergency summits in brussels today as the russian invasion of ukraine enters the second month. we will speak to dahlia lithwick --anatol lieven at the quincy institute. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: ukrainian cellist denys karachevtsev playing in the bombed out streets of his hometown of kharkiv as part of a project to raise funds for humanitarian aid and restoration of the city's architecture. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman in new york, joined by co-host nermeen shaikh. hi, nermeen. nermeen: hi, amy. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. amy: president biden is in brussels for an emergency nato meeting as russia's war in ukraine enters its second month. nato has announced it is sending more troops to bulgaria, hungary, romania, and slovakia. over the past month, the number of nato troops in eastern europe

has doubled, reaching about 40,000 from just a month ago. meanwhile, the humanitarian crisis inside ukraine continues to grow. unicef is now saying half of ukraine's 7.5 million children have been displaced in one of the largest displacements of children since world war ii. on the battlefront, ukraine is claiming it has blown up a russian ship in the port of berdyansk. video posted online shows a large ship on fire in the russn-occupied southern port city. this comes as the united states has officially declared russian forces have committed war crimes in ukraine. in another development, the german chancellor has once again rejected calls to boycott russian oil and gas saying the cost to germany's economy would be too high. on wednesday, to painted the slogans "oil fuels war" and "oil is war" on the side of a massive

russian tanker in the baltic sea delivering 100,000 tons of crude to the port of rotterdam in the netherlands. nato, the g7, and the european council hold unprecedented emergency summits today in brussels. we are joined now by anatol lieven, senior fellow at the quincy institute for responsible statecraft. he's the author of numerous books on russia and the former soviet republics, including "ukraine and russia: a fraternal rivalry." welcome back to democracy now! why don't you start off simply by laying out the significance of this triple summit today of the european council, the g7 come of nato, and what is taking place on the ground in ukraine. >> well, the summit is to cement western unity against russia and to impose or at least threat russia with additional sanctions

if the war continues. i do not think we should take the nato deployments to seriously. russia has no intention of attacking any of the countries named. indeed, has no capacity to do so. we should take account the fact the russian military is incapable of taking cities less than 20 miles from russia's borders in a month of fighting. the idea that he will and big nato is simply fantastical, so we should not panic over this. yes, esparza situation on the ground is concerned, the russians are making progress in capturing mariupol but it is very slow progress and it involves the destruction of much of the city through artillery. elsewhere, the russian forces appear to be thoroughly followed -- bogged down thanks to the

ukrainian resistance. my feeling is on the ground, the war is heading for some kind of prolonged slemate in which russia will not be able to defeat ukraine completely and occupy the country or overthrow the ukrainian government. that russia will hold certain territories that it has occupied and it eastern south of the country. unless there is a peace settlement, which the -- it does seem to be real grounds now, this war could go on infinitely. nermeen: let's talk more about what a peace settlement would entail. in the 2014 peace following the russian annexation of crimea, the piece was titled "ukraine the way out," you suggested at

the time that the only resolution would be a federal ukraine with elected regional governments and robust protection for regional interest. doou think that is still a likely resolution? you also pointed out in that prolonging the war would not esent more options. >> know, i don't think that is an option anymore. i mean, i still think in principle it will be a good thing. ukraine, given the great differences between its regions, is a naturally federal country. of course, that is perfect democratic solution. but i don't think that is now at all possible because it will be seen by the ukrainians as another means of russian interferen in the country in attempt to manipulate ukraine. a federal law -- a relationship remains one of the only ways.

the only way the donbas republics can possibly return to ukrainian sovereignty. barring that, the only solution there would be local referenda under international supervision to decide their fate. as for crimea, i'm afraid since 2014, that has been lost to ukraine and really again, it is a question of -- well, firstly, finding democratic and legal legitimacy for any territorial changes. secondly, really guaranteeing and securing the independence and sovereignty of ukraine as a whole. nermeen: you just said, and it does appear that way, that the war is headed toward prolonged stalemate. could you explain why you think the russians on the admission of certain russian military analyst

that they so poorly calculated what this war would look like? what do you think the reasons for that are? there are a number of close military advisors to putin who have been involved in plning this invasion. >> it is clear the russians or the putin regime complely undereimated the strength, courage,nd efficiency of ukrainian resistance. they deployed far too few troops for the operation and they spread those troops far too wide of an area stuff they attacked from too many different directions at once. an additional reason for this may be it seems the kremlin has tried as far as possible not to use conscript troops under this operation. they tried to use professional volunteers. that could be because they do not trust the quality of the conscripts, and there is real

evidence of lack of morale among russian forces. it could also be that putin fears political repercussions at home if large number of russian conscripts start dying. and as far as their poor intelligence is concerned, yes, that is surprising, but i think it does reflect the degree to which putin and his immediate core have shrunk to barely half a dozen people and have become really isolated from wider advice, especially since physical isolation of covid pandemic. but it really does seem as if putin has simply not in receiving intelligence or advice which conflict with his prejudices. it has to be said, we know something about this in the west given what the bush and blair administration's did in the run-up to the iraq war when they brushed aside conflicting

information. this syndrome is obviously even worse. amy: can you talk about what you believe is happening with putin, how isolated or not he is daca reuters is reporting the architect of russia's post-soviet economic reforms has quit his post as the kremlin special envoy. he was the climate envoy now but very close to putin for years. i believe he is the one who brought him into the kremlin. he has left the country due to the war in ukraine most of highest-ranking confection yet over putin's invasion of ukraine as well as another high military official has not been seen in like two weeks. his too much being made of this? and a readout that was just done, was general meeting with a russian general in moscow were at the end he said to him, how is your family doing? i know they live in ukraine.

he uncharacteristically, somewhat, broke down saying he is very concerned. does this have real impact and could this mean the beginning of some kind of disruption of the elite, power elite aund putin? >> in the long run, i think yes. in the short-term, no. as i say, putin's innerore is narrow and they are deeply implicated in the ukraine war. as far as the russian elite are concerned, climate envoy is not a senior or influential position. but with time as economic suffering of the russian people grows due to sanctions and the war, as casualties mount as the war goeon, and as the wider elite, especially the business

elites, become more and more unhappy with what is happening, that i think in the longer run, there is a real threat to the putin regime. probably of some kind of move to push them out from within the wider elites, perhaps the resignation of yeltsin. i fear this may take some considerable time given both the narrowness of putin's power elite and the grip they have on the country. amy: i want to ask you about weapons of mass destruction. the kremlin is fusing to logical weapons on the battlefield if it faces what it determines to be an existential threat. russian president vladimir putin's spokesperson made the remarkin a conversation with cnn. >> i want to ask you again, is

present -- again, the finnish president said to me when he asked putin directly about this, because president putin has lay that card on the table, president putin said if anybody tries to stop him, "very bad things will happen." i want to know whether you are convinced work off at it that your boss will not use that option? >> well, we have a concept of domestic security. you can read all the reasons for nuclear arms to be used. so if it is an existent noel threat for our country, then it can be used in accordance -- amy: if you could comment on this, anatol lieven, as well as the concern raised about the use

of biological and chemical weapons? these are supposedly what we understand are being discussed at these emergency summit today in brussels? >> well, putin is clearly using the threat of nuclear weapons to deter in any kind of direct nato intervention in ukraine. and to suggest if it comes to a war between nato and russia, thens in the cold war, the use of nuclear weapons by both sides is a possibility. i find it impossible to believe, however, that putin would use the weapons simply in the context of the war with ukraine. because the political consequences would be devastating. you just mentioned, a russian general has his family in ukraine, former dippy prime minister is ukrainian with ella jones there.

i think this will be too much even for the russian elites to stomach. and also would pay nothing for the russia -- if russia actually hopes to incorporate some of these or turn them into client states, by definition creating a nuclear waste land not a good way to begin. as fars chemical weapons are concerned, i am not sure. there is always the risk, of course, of false flag operations to discreditither side, but once again, i doubt that this would come as far as russia is concerned, justify the appalling, consequences in terms of world public opinion. i hope i'm right about that, anyway. nermeen: can we talk about some of the broader context and a history of this war as you have

discussed in recent inteiews? you said, for example, since the 1990's, the you and nato have made membership in these organizations synonymous with europe and this in itself is a problem. and then also explained what the budapest memorandum of 1994, what that agreement was about and whether that has any bearing on where we stand today. >> yes, well, as i often sa if you want to read some very cogent arguments against nato expansion and in particular against e suggestion that ukraine and georgia should be brought into nato, can read the memoir the head of the cia william burns in which he sets aside these arguments that he made in memos to the state department, first on the policy planning start in the 1990's, and then ambassador to moscow. he quotes russian officials and russians in general under the

yeltn administration in the 1990's, warning this would lead to confrontation and qui possibly war. there is simply -- there is no excuse for saying we were not warned about likely consequences of this. and also, it has become clear verbally gorbachev was promised actually several times that nato would not expand after the end of the cold war. what happened in the 1990's, there was an attempt to blur the exclusion of russia and the west's moves to basically drive out of your, sort of halfway house between nato and not nato members, which included russia and other states and the former soviet union.

in 2008, the bucharest summit, britain and america tore that up as far as ukraine and georgia were concerned. proposed with those countries thought nato membership, which then set the stage for what has now happened. amy: and european unions right now, zelensky will be addressing the summits today from ukraine but they want to become also a member of the european union. but there is opposition even now within the european union. the significance of ukraine not being a part of either right now and that zelensky has very recently said come as recently as a few weeks ago on abc and this could be the broad outlines of an agreement, "i'm talking about security guarantees. i think items regarding temporary occupied territories and unrecognized republics that have not been recognized by and what about russia, these pseudo-republics, but we can

discuss and find a compromise on how these territoriesill live on." as the foreign minister said, "if we could reach an agreement where similar system of guarantees is envisaged by the north atlantic charter can be granted to ukraine by the minute members of the u.n. council including russia, as well as by ukraine's neighbors, this is something we are ready to discuss." arch we sing the brought islands of a cease-fire at whatever these -- whatever point these two parties decide to make one? >> that is why i am relatively hopeful and also because of growing military stomach on the ground, that peace agreement is possibleecause we have seen the grounds for that drawn up by both sides. it might be necessary to pick certain issues into the diplomatic -- ukraine has also suggested the path of territorial issues might be

compartmentalized as a possible peace settlement. in other words, would have a peace agreement and any agreement not to fight of these territories and then agree to negotiate. a bit like that turkish republic in northern cyprus if you wish. but, yes. obviously, security guarantees of ukrainian sovereignty and independence. given that it seems to me another side can actually win militarily on the ground as far as the maximal positions are concerned, this does seem to me a way out. nermeen: covered very -- before we conclude, you covered journalist the soviet invasion of afghanistan but also of chechnya. you expressed concerns this war

may also come to look similar to those words or indeed already does. could you talk abt that? >> the russian intervention in chechnya simply the storming and the first war of 1946, which i covered on the ground anin the second war, which i didn't, involved the massive destruction of that city as we are now seeing in mariupol. it has to be said not because of deliberate russian war crimes in this ce, but simply that is the nature of urban warfare. the defenders ho themselves up in residential areas, quite likely, from their point of view, to hold their positions, and the attacking forces bombard them and destroy them in the process of storming those positions. if this war goes on and russia tax more cities, then the same thing is going to happen over and over again. so that is my bitter memory of what happened in grozny.

in afghanistan, it is rather different. the lesson. there, hillary clinton and others have explicitly raised the idea of what happened in afghanistan as a model for how united nations should support and even encourage a protracted war in ukraine so as to bleed and we can russia and eventually bring down the putin regime. well, that war was waged in afghanistan at the cost of perhaps a million afghan lives. the destruction of the afghan state, which has never recovered. and the permanent wreckage of afghan society, including the disappearance and its educated elite -- i find there is something deeply immoral in trying to wage a war at this kind athe expense of other people if a reasonable

peace settlement is on the cards come as it may now be. amy: anatol lieven, senior fellow at the quincy institute for responsible statecraft. stay with us as we look at confirmation hearings for supreme court justice nominee ketanji brown jackson, who appears poised to become the first black woman on the supreme court. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. confirmation hearings for president biden's supreme court nominee judge ketanji brown jackson continued wednesday with more than 10 more hours of questioning and as republicans rampedp their attacks on her record as a federal judge and public defender. she is the first black woman nominated to the high court and was accused by senator lindsey graham of judicial activism and grilled by josh hawley on a child pornography case involving an 18-year-old defendant in which she imposed a three-month sentence. >> judge, you gave him three months. do you regret it or not? >> senator, what i regret is that in the hearing about my qualification to be a justice on the supreme court, we have spent a lot of time focusing on

this small subset of my sentences. and i have tried to explain -- >> do you regret we are focusing on your cases? >> no, no, no, i'm talking about the fact you're talking about very serious cases and no one case can stand in for my entire record of how ideal with criminal cases or did when i was a district judge. i have law-enforcement in my family. i am a mother who has daughters, who took these cases home with me at night because they are so graphic in terms of the kinds of images that you are describing. amy: senator hawley questiing judge jackson. she endured repeated attacks until democratic senator cory booker, the only african-american senator on the senate judiciary committee, delivered a passionate speech praising ketanji brown jackson

and recalled the historical significance of her nomination as jackson wiped away tears. >> oh, let america be america again. the land that never has been yet but yet must be the land where everyone is free. oh, yes, i say it, never was america to me but i swear this oath, america will be. that is the story of how you got to this desk. you and i and everyone here, generations of folk who came here and said, i'm irish -- i'm going to show this country that i can be free here. i can make this country loved me as much as i love it. chinese-americans, forced to slave labor building railroads, connecting our country saw the ugliest of america but they were going to build their home here

and say, america, you may not love me yet, but i'm going to make this nation live up to its promise and hope. lgbtq americans from stonewall, limited to seneca, hidden figures who did not even get their play until some hollywood movie finally talked about the and how they were critical for us to find gravity. all of these people loved america. and so you faced insulthere that were shocking to me -- well, not shocking. but you are here because of that kind of love, and no one is take this away from you. so you've got five more folk to go through. five more of us. and then you can sit back and let us have all the debates. i'm going to tell you, it is going to be a will charted in it floor because it is not going to stop. they're going to accuse you of this and that. in honor of the person who

shares your rthday, may be called a communist. but don't worry, my sister. don't worry. god has got you. and how do i know that? because you are here. and i know what it has taken for you to sit in that seat. harriet tubman is one of my heroes because the more i read about this person, the more -- i mean, she was viciously beaten. her whole life. cracked skull. she faced starvation, chased by dogs. when she got her freedom, what did she do? did she rest? no, she went back again and again and again. the sky was full of stars. but she found one that was harbinger of hope for better

days, not just for her and those people that were enslaved, but harbinger of hope for this country. and she never gave up on america. she fought, let troops under the civil war. she was involved in the suffrage movement. as i came back from my run after being nearly assaulted by someone on the street, i thought about her and how she looked up, kept looking up no matter what they did to her. she never stopped looking up. and that star, it was a harbinger of hope. today you are my star. you are my harbinger of hope. this country is getting better and better and better. and when that final vote happens

and you ascend on to the highest court in the land, i am going to rejoice and i'm going to tell you right now, the greatest country in the world, the united states of america, will be better because of you. thank you. amy: new jersey senator cory booker. for more, we are joined by two guests. dahlia lithwick is slate.com senior editor and senior legal correspondent. her new piece is headlined "cory booker aside, democrats stranded ketanji brown jackson." and in boulder, colorado, we are joined by imani gandy, senior editor of law and policy for rewire news group, where she covers law and courts and cohost the podcast boom! she has been live tweeting the past three days of judge jackson's confirmation hearing. i want to get response from both of you for getting with imani gandy about the three days, what stood out for you and how judge

round jackson was treated. >> i think it stood out for me that she describes herself as a patriot. i think that was one of the key moments for me, the way she describes herself as a patriot, describes herself as believing in this country, believing in the constitution and what this country can be. i think given the way she was treated by republican senators and given the struggle she has had to endure -- and i'm sure the racism and the misogyny and the downplaying of her intellect that she has had to endure to get to where she is, is remarkable. the fact she is had to endure all that and remain hopeful about the dream at this country, i think is remarkable. as for senators crews, holly, cotton, blackburn, their behavior was shameful. shameful. i don't even want to get any of the discussion about child sex abuse material anymore cranes that it needs to be because none of it made any sense.

as was said multiple times, her sentencing when it comes to those tys of cases were in line with 70% of judges. josh hawley and ted cruz voted for innumerable trump nominated judges who sentenced people convicted for having child sex abuse materials to similar sentences as judge jackson did. so this was -- it seemed, white men tried to flex their power over a black men knowing she could not respond in the way, for example, cavanagh responded and his hearings. i think that just highlights the ways in which black women are treated differently than white men and black women are not given as much grace in this country. nermn: you wrote in your recent piece, cory booker aside -- "cory booker aside, democrats stranded ketanji brown jackson." could you talk about the attacks

on her come the way she was question, and democrats response? >> i think imani nails it. something that started as a toxic traveler last week by senatorhawley that floated late on thursday night this ridiculously and completely unsupported idea that the attack on judge jackson was going to be predicated on the fact that our children are not safe because of her sentencing decisions in a tiny cluster, seven, child pornography cases. that went in under a week from a crackpot idea that was debunked in the national review online, debunked across the spectrum, debunked by former judges -- republican judges in some cases -- who said, as you just heard,

she was well in line with what the sentencing garlands required, what other judges do. and within a week, into something ted cruz, lindsey graham, and watching this misinformation go from an adult idea that everyone on the committee, other republicans distanced themselves from last week, and they embraced by the time we got to the end of yesterday, 10 republican senators had signed a letter wanting to see confidential reports that are sealed so they could personally assess whether judge jackson was endangering our children. that is how january 6 happened. that is how claims about stolen elections happened. we do not debunked these completely pernicious lies and in the span of a week all of them wrap themselves in this shoddy, shoddy cloak that judge

jackson is somehow soft on or even enabling of child sex predators. it was appalling. amy: i want to go to the hearings dealing with abortion. republican senators who try to portray supreme court nominee ketanji brown jackson as hostile to antiabortion views. republican senator john kennedy on tuesday asked judge jackson when life begins. >> boy, time flies. when does life begin in your opinion? >> senator, um, i don't know. >> do you have a belief? >> i have personal religious and otherwise believes that have nothing to do with the law in terms of when life begins. >> do you have a personal belief

about when life begins? >> i have a religious view that i set aside when i ruling on cases. amy: that was senator kennedy tuesday. this is republican senator john and questioning judge brown jackson on wednesday. >> noah suggests a 20 week old fetus can live independently outside the mother's womb, do they? >> i don't know. >> the child will need to be fed and sheltered and all the other essentials to sustain human life , so there is no suggestion that after 20 weeks that a child can live independently, correct? >> senator, i am not a biologist. i have not studied this. i don't know -- >> you don't know whether an unborn child can live outside the womb at 20 weeks gestation?

>> i know that court evaluates the rights of woman to terminate their pregnancy. they have -- the court has announced there is a right to terminate up to the point of viability subject to the framework. there is a pending case right now that is addressing these issues. amy: at the same time as the hearing yesterday, idaho became the first state to enact a law modeled on texas' near-total ban on abortions. republican governor signed the bill wednesday which bans abortions after around six weeks of pregnancy and allows anyone biologically related to the fetus to sue abortion providers if they defy the law. the only exceptions are in case of medical emergency, rape, or in best but the latter to

require the patient to have reported a crime to police. also wednesday, oklahoma passed a total abortion ban that would be enforced by bounty hunter-style lawsuits. imani gandy, if you can talk about how judge jackson is bonded and how this is all happening as this wave of antiabortion laws are passing the bus the country? clubs i think judge jackson's respse was perfectly appropriate. there is no indication that she has ruled extensively on abortion rights cases. the supreme court itself to clients to determine -- to make an assessment as to when life begins, specifically declined to do that in roe v. wade. i think it is a bit absurd for these republican senators to imply that she is somehow hostile to antiabortion views when the criteria for republican nominated potential supreme court justices is that they essentially vow they will

overturn roe v. wade. certainly in the hearing room, they want to say something like that. then judge amy coney barrett would not say something like that. they will say something like it is not appropriate for for me to opine on legal issues that are before the court right now. or it is not appropriate for me to opine on how i would rule in hypothetical case. as we know, justices are a student simply bolted to precedence and the rulof law. as we have seen over the last six months, abortion rights don't fall into that. roe has been functionally void in texas for going on for six months. there are states that are falling like dominoes that are rushing to enact these bounty hunter style bills which permit anyone in the world to test permit anyone in the world to snitch seven getting an

abortion. all of these people are being entrapped by this bounty hunter system and it is chilling constitutional rights. this serpent court right now does not seem to care about that. you can tell it is very upsetting to someone like sonia sotomayor was written i think four distants -- dissents now. the supreme court is ignoring its own precedents. it seems the for the court of appeals during one of the hearings in the fifth circuit basically said, well, should we just wait to see what the court says? that is not the way it works. no, should not wait to see with the court does on a mississippi case challenging 15 week abortion ban. you uphold the law on the day you're supposed be hearing an issue. that means roe v. wade is still the law of the land. it may not be in two months, but it is now. judge jackson's response was

appropriate. had she been a republican nominated justice or judge, seasoning, republicans would have been having part is they "i'm not going to opine" because they know when it comes time to decide roe v. wade, amy coney barrett and brett kavanaugh and neil gorsuch, all of these justices thatrump appointed who were required in advance to have anti-choice views, they are all fine. they are waiting for the opportunity to essentially gut roe v. wade. nermeen: could you respond to that and the fact that you said senate judiciary cmittee democrats did not connect the hearing to what is going to be a catastrophic series of progressive losses at the supreme court? talk about what other progressive losses in addition to reproductive rights you are referring to. >> i think the single most

important thing that i saw in the questioning around abortion was how little there was. to the extent there was questioning around abortion, it presumed, as you just heard, that abortion is already over, that roe v. wade has been nullified and that was assumed. and then the questions really moved on to other things within that bucket of privacy rights and family autonomy rights to sort of all of the substantive due process -- the questions we were getting were really chilling. john cornyn raising the prospect of maybe doing away with the marriage equality decision. all of the rights, including contraception, in that bucket that are protected by roe i think are on the table now. it is why you were hearing tuxes this week inside the chamber, hearing talk about griswold versus connecticut, the right to contraception within a marriage. maybe that should be revisited outside the chamber. we were hearing maybe loving

versus virginia, the right to have interracial marriage also should be left to the states. i think we need to be really clear the target has moved. it is presumed that roe is going to be reversed and a couple of months, and i think that is fair, but also everything that comes with it is now fair game. that is why you're hearing about marriage equality, why you're hearing about birth control. amy: will have 15 seconds, but you know what is happening with clarence thomas? the longest serving member of the supreme court? he has been hospitalized now for seven days. they said he was going to cannot days ago with an unspecified infection. >> the court has refused to answer questions. we know they said on sunday he should be out within two days. he missed arguments again on wednesday. the court will not give us any more information. it seems he is still not dissipating in aumentsnd that is all we know. amy: dahlia lithwick, thank you

for being with us slate.com , senior editor and senior legal correspondent. imani gandy is senior editor of law and policy for rewire news group. that does it for our show. some exciting news, our youtube channel has reached a major milestone, one million subscribers. thank you to all of our viewersa

>> today, on "earth focus," the rising cost of a changing climate. coming up, on "earth focus." we have never confronted a crisis like this. in its early stages it's producing record- breaking heat, coastal flooding, and extreme precipitation. and the cost is way too high in lives lost, in damage to prorty, and livelood. and it may get worse. unless addressed, climate change stands to affect the security of the nation, the stability of stands to affect the security of the nation, the stability of the u.s. economy, and ultimately