04/01/22 04/01/22 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> since my great-grandmother' vit to the white house 124 years ago, there have been over 200 attempt to get legislation enacted, but we finally stand here today, generations later, to witness this historic moment of president biden signing the emmett till anti-lynching bill

into law. amy: the historic signing of the emmett till antilynching act culminates more than a century long fight to make lynching a federal crime. we will get response from the cousin and best friend of emmett till, reverend wheeler parker, jr. was there with his 14 year old cousin was abducted. till was brutally tortured and murdered in mississippi. we will also be joined by michelle, the great-granddaughter of ida b. wells, the legendary antilynching journalist. then youtube deletes the entire archive of chris hedges', nominated show " contact" on a news channel funded by the russian government. we will get an update from the pulitzer prize winning journalist about what happened. hedges is just back from the wedding of imprisoned wikileaks founder julian assange. >> a society that prohibits the

capacity to speak in truth, extinguishes the capacity to live in justice. and this is why we are here day. yes, all of us know and admire julian, decry his prolonged suffering and the suffering of his family. amy: all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. russia has accused ukraine of carrying out an air strike in the russian city of belgorod, and what appears to be the first ukrainian air raid on russian territory since vladimir putin ordered his troops to invade ukraine six weeks ago. a regional governor said two workers were injured in the attack on a fuel depot, which triggered a huge fire that forced evacuations in parts of

the russian city. in southern ukraine, the international committee of the red cross that it is traveling to the besieged city of mariupol to ensure safe passage for civilians who want to leave. it's not clear if the latest evacuation attempt is succeeding. previously come ukraine accused russian troops of firing on civilians attempting to flee the city. in northeastern ukraine, a russian missile struck a gas pipeline in a residential district of kharkiv on thursday, scorching nearby businesses and cutting off fuel supplies to tens of thousands of people. this is vera, a kharkiv resident who survived a russian attack on her neighborhood. >> our apartment block was hit by three missiles. all apartments in one area were on fire. people were left without injury. where we supposed to live? we have been here since march 6.

look at me. look at my close. that is how we live. amy: in northern ukraine, the operator of the decommissioned chernobyl nuclear power plant says russian troops have left. and a back for protecting the contaminated site to them and claim russian troops near the plant suffered acute radiation poisoning after they were ordered to dig trenches and highly radioactive soil in an area of the chernobyl exclusion zone known as the red forest. in kyiv, ukrainian president blumer zelenskyy --volodymyr zelenskyy 52 top officials, accusing them of being traitors to ukraine. president biden has ordered the national strategic petroleum reserve to release 1 million barrels per day for the next six months in order to drive down the cost of fuel.

it's an unprecedented release from the u.s. stockpile, representing about 5% of all u.s. demand. biden also warned u.s. oil producers they could face fines if they don't pump on land they've leased from the federal government. pres. biden: right now oil and gas industries are sitting on nearly 9000 unused but approved permits for production on federal lands. more than one million unused acres that have a right to pump on. familiesannot afford to let company sit on their hands. amy: in response, the center for biological diversity said biden's moves "will only deepen our dependence on fossil fuels and open the floodgates to more oil and gas extraction when we should be going in the opposite direction." biden also accused u.s. oil companies of raking in record profits while gouging american -- consumers at the gas pump.

a new report by oil change international projects u.s. oil and gas companies could collect as much as $126 billion in windfall profits this year. greenpeace activists blocked the transfer of 100,000 tons of russian oil between two supertankers off denmark's northern coast on thursday. activists in kayaks joined swimmers in heavy protective gear who braved frigid temperatures to place their bodies in between the two giant ships in an act of nonviolent civil disobedience. >> i would like to inform you we are conducting a peaceful protest and we have swimmers and kayaks in the water on the starboard side of the ship. there are people in the water. amy: the activists painted "oil fuels war" in english and "no to

war" in russian on the hull of one of the supertankers. greenpeace says russian fossil fuels continue to arrive at european ports despite pledges by countries to halt imports. in a statement, the group said -- "it is clear that fossil fuels and the money flowing into them is at the root cause of the climate crisis, conflicts, and war, causing immense suffering to people all over the world." i united nations donors conference for afghanistan race barely half of its $4.4 billion goal thursday as the u.n. secretary-general warned the nation's already dire humanitarian situation is worsening. >> some 95% of people do not have enough to eat and 9 million people are at risk of famine. unicef -- under chiren are on the verge of death without immediate action and global food

prices are skyrocketing as a result of the war in ukraine. amy: it is the second u.n. donors conference to come up short of its goal this month. aid groups continue to demand the biden administration and european leaders release frozen reserves from afghan central bank, warning without the funds come afghanistan faces total collapse. amnesty international says it's concerned of possible human rights violations as the government of el salvador enforces a brutal 30-day state of emergency that's temporarily suspended several constitutional protections. amnesty issued an open letter to salvadoran president nayib bukele who said this week over 3000 people have been arrested, accused of being in gangs. salvadorans continue to denounce police abuse. this is the mother of a person recently detained. >> i think the only thing the

president wants is to show big arrested number so people applaud him, but there are innocent people in that prison. people who have done nothing wrong. indeed, they have also locked up gang members. i won't deny that. but the majority are innocent people. amy: pope francis has apologized to first nations communities in canada over the catholic church's involvement in canadian residential schools. some 150,000 indigenous children were ripped from their families and forcibly sent to the schools where they faced psychological, physical, and actual abuse. these schools were open between the late 1800s and 1990's, funded by the canadian government and run by the catholic church. this is pope francis speaking today from the vatican. >> i also feel shame. i have told you and i will tell you again, i feel shame. shame and sorrow for the role

several catholics, particularly those with educational responsibilities, have played in all that has hurt you, in the abuses and disrespect toward your identity, or culture, and even your spiritual values. amy: pope francis' remarks come after he met with first nations leaders who have long urged the catholic church to formally apologize. canada's truth and reconciliation commission has documented at least 4100 deaths tied to the schools as mass graves continue to be discovered. back in the united states, former president trump's son-in-law and senior adviser jared kushner gave several hours of closed-door testimony thursday to the house committee probing the january 6 insurrection at the u.s. capitol. his appearance by video link came as federal prosecutors broadened their investigation to include organizers of pro-trump rallies that proceeded the january 6 attack on congress. the justice department is also

looking into how trump's allies conspired to promote slates of fake electors in a bid to overturn joe biden's electoral college victory in the 2020 election. a federal judge has blocked parts of a voter suppression law authored by florida republican s and signed by governor ron desantis, saying racism was a motivating factor in its passage. in a nearly 300-page ruling, u.s. district judge mark walker cited florida's "grotesque history of racial discrimination in voting." he added -- "at some point, when the florida legislature passes law after law disproportionately burdening black voters, this court can no longer accept that the effect is incidental." the law makes it harder to vote by mail, limits ballot drop boxes, imposes new voter id requirements, and criminalizes giving food and water to voters waiting in line at polling places.

meanwhile, arizona republican governor doug ducey has signed a law requiring voters to provide proof of citizenship in order to vote in a presidential election. voting rights advocates have called the bill blatantly unconstitutional and warn that unless courts block the law, some 200,000 arizona voters could be impacted. u.s. citizens will now have the option to select a gender neutral option on passport applications. state department spokesperson ned price announced the changes thursday as the world marked international transgender day of visibility. >> starting on april 11, u.s. citizens will be able to select an is a gender marker and it will become available for other forms of documentation next year. amy: in labor news, amazon warehouse workers in staten island, new york, may be close to forming a union as early results of the anticipated

election thursday show union efforts ahead by hundreds of votes. ballot counting at the staten island facility continues today. meanwhile, a redo of the union election led by amazon warehouse workers in bessemer, alabama, is still too close to call. there are over 400 challenged votes that could impact the outcome of that election in the coming days. the second vote in alabama comes after the national labor relations board set amazon unlawfully interfered with the first election last year. and in georgia, workers who clean the hartsfield-jackson international airport in atlanta have won pay increases after over a decade demanding higher wages. their victory came as workers held demonstrations around the country thursday. sadia bultum, a janitor who joined protests at seattle-tacoma international airport, said she and her co-workers feared for their

safety on the front lines of the pandemic even as the airline industry got a federal bailout. >> we were risking our health and that of our families every day. yes, it was the airline who were given billions during covid. it was not for us, airport workers. amy: and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. when we come back, this week president biden signed the emmett till antilynching act after more than a century long fight to make lynching a federal crime. we will get response from the cousin and best friend of emmett till and the great-granddaughter of the legendary anti-lynching journalist ida b. wells. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "the saga of emmett till"

by orbert davis. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. president biden signed the emmett till anti-lynching act into law on tuesday, culminating efforts to make lynching a federal crime that started over a century ago. the legislation was named after emmett till, the 14-year-old black teenager who was brutally abducted, tortured, and killed in mississippi in 1955 after he was accused of whistling at a white woman in a store. speakers at tuesday's bill signing included michelle duster, the great granddaughter of ida b. wells, the legendary anti-lynching journalist. >> we are honored to be here and represent our great-grandmother ida b. wells barnett, who once said, our country's national crime is lynching. she was born enslaved an agent

62 holly springs, mississippi, the same state where 14-year-old emmett till was lynched 93 years later. and in 1898, in response to the lynching of postmaster fraser baker in lake city south carolina, she visited president william s mckinley right here in washington to urge him to make lynching a federal crime. since my great-grandmother's visit to the white house 124 years ago, there have been over 200 attempt to get legislation enacted. but we finally stand here today, generations later, to witness this historic moment a president biden signing the emmett till anti-lynching bill into law. [applause] amy: 14-year-old emmett till was

brutally murdered august 28, 1955. he had been accused of "wolf whistling" at carolyn bryant, a white woman, then dragged out of his great-uncle's home in money, mississippi, in the middle of the night, where his mother mamie till mobley had sent him from chicago for the summer. several days later, his brutally beaten, disfigured body, weighted down with a 75-pound cotton gin fan tied to his body with barbed wire, was pulled out of the tallahatchie river. the leflore county sheriff attempted to force the immediate burial of emmett till, but mamie till intervened and paid almost a year's salary for his body to be shipped back to chicago. there, the funeral director refused to open the box for her to view her son's corpse. "give me a hammer," she demanded. he relented and allowed her to view emmett's mutilated remains. by then, the murder had sparked outrage across the nation. mamie till mobley insisted that emmett receive an open-casket

funeral. "let the world see what i've seen," she said. this is mamie till mobley speaking in the documentary "the untold story of emmett louis till" about what she had seen. her description is extremely graphic. a warning to our listeners and viewers, at the end of the excerpt come you see what emmett till wanted the world to see emmett's mutilated remains. ,>> i saw his tongue had been choked out and was lying down on his chin. i saw that this eye out and he was lying about midway to cheek. i looked at this eye and it was gone. i looked at the bridge of his

nose and it looked like someone had taken a meat chopper. i looked at mr. rayner and mr. rayner wanted to know was i going to have the casket opened. i said, oh, yes, we are going to open the casket. he said, miss bradley, do you want me to do something for the face? want me to try to fix it up? i said, no, let the people see what i see. i want the world to see this because there is no way i can tell this story and give them the visual picture of what my son looks like. amy: that's mamie till mobley, the mother of emmett till.

speaking in the documentary "the untold story of emmett louis till." last november would have been her 100th birthday. for more, we are joined by two guests in chicago. the reverend wheeler parker jr. is emmett till's cousin and was his best friend. reverend parker was 16 years old when he witnessed emmett till's abduction from his great-uncle's home in money, mississippi. also with us is michelle duster, the great-granddaughter of the pioneering investigative journalist ida b. wells who in 2020 was recognized with a posthumous pulitzer prize for her "outstanding and courageous reporting on the horrific and vicious violence against african americans during the era of lynching." michelle duster is an author, professor, public historian, and an advocate for racial and gender justice. we welcome you both to democracy now! reverend wheeler parker, jr., to

have the two of you here together is historic. i want to go to the reverend as we just listened to your aunt, to mamie till mobley, described what happened your best friend, your cousin, who was two years younger than you. if you could go back to that night in 1955, stilso vivid with you -- i apologize for asking you to do this -- to talk about what took place in the impact, not only on your family, but on the world? >> yes, it is kind of hard to understand what it was like in mississippi at that time if you did not live there and experience it, it just seemed unreal. after the incident at the store, it was on a wednesday. early sunday morning, about 2:30, i heard people talking about what happened at the store.

seve got t guys fr chica and want to talk to the fat boy who did the talking in the store. right away, having been -- i was entrenched in the ways of the cell. i started praying. i said, god, these people are fixing to kill u people have been hung down the streetrom my uncle. my daddy had to sleep with his gun overnight. i knew where i was and i getting ready to die. you think of all of the bad things you have ever done. i was saying, god, if you just let me live, i'm going to do right. could t help me in mississippi in 1955.

the room was dark as a thousand midnights. you could not see your hand before your face. i heard them coming my way and then they walked with a pistol in one hand and a flashlight in the other. i am shaking like a leaf on a tree. i closed my eyes, justnowing i'm going toe shot. they went by me and they went to the third room. und emmett in bed. they roused him up. the atmosphere was thick with rror and fear. he finally got his shoes on and ey left with them. my grandmother tried to pay him. my grandfather begged them not to take him. that was the last time we saw him alive. amy: i wanted to go to a clip of

emmett till's great uncle. this is the reverend mose wright speaking about the adduction. it is from that same documentary "the untold story of emmett louis till," directed by keith beauchamp. >> this is mose wright. i am the uncle of emtt till. sunday morning around 2:30, someone called at the door. i said, who is it? and he said, this is mr. bryant. i want to talk with you and the boy. and when i opened the door, there was a man standing with a pistol in one hand and a flashlight in the other hand. and he asked me did i have two

boys there from chicago. i told him i have. he said, i want the boy that done all that talk. amy: that was the great uncle of emmett till, from that documentary "the untold story of emmett louis till." the story is horrifying. the two ought to suspects were roy bryant, the husband of carol bryant, who claimed she had been whistled at in the store, and their brother-in-law, j.w. milam . the amazing story that is not often told, two brave activists from the mississippi naacp, medgar evers and amzie moore, had been involved since till was reported missing, first looking for the lost boy and then seeking eyewitnesses to the murder. despite the eyewitnesses, an all-white, all male jury

acquitted the suspects. one member of the jury said they reached the decision within minutes but held off for an hour to appear as if they had actually deliberated. edgar evers would later be assassinated. after the acquittal, bryant and milam sold their story to "look magazine for $4000, about the same amount that mamie till paid to ship her dead son home from equivalent of over $40,000 in 2022. they admitted they had murdered him. reverend wheeler parker, jr., your response to the emmett till antilynching act that has now been signed into law 70 years later -- this is after over 200 attempts at getting and antilynching law over the last century. your thoughts? >> i've great accommodations for those who had the courage, the

fire and gets in their belly to do what is right. too many times these guys have stood up and did it and it spea volumes, not only for them, but for america. let us know the wheels of justice grind, but they grind slow. they got the job don sometimes you attempt to to have good, why did it take so long and should not have taken that long, but we appreciate it and we a thankful for what was done and when it was done. amy: i want to bring michelle duster into this conversation. again, today, we are joined by two historic figures. yes, we're joined by reverend wheeler parker, jr., the best friend and cousin of emmett till , and michelle duster, the great-granddaughter of ida b. wells, the pioneering antilynching journalist who won a posthumous pulitzer prize two

years ago in 2020. that was you we just watched at the white house, speaking at the signing of the act. your thoughts today? i echo what reverend wheeler said. it is jus amazing -- reverend parker. just the fact that finally in 2022, have justice, we have laws in place that were fought for so long ago. better late than never and hopefully going forward, there will be more justice for crimes that are hate-based and racially-based. amy: let's talk about your great-grandmother ida b. wells, this remarkable figure in u.s. history. talk about how lynching, with the original lynching that motivated her more than 100

years ago of her three friends. talk about what happened. >> in 1892, three of my great grandmother's friends owned a grocery store. they were lynched because they were so successful that the other person decided to eliminate the competition. she knew they were not guilty of any crimes, so she wanted -- she started investigating other lynchings to see how many innocent people were being killed. amy: in 1898, over 120 years ago , in response to the lynching of another man, the postmaster pressure baker in lake city, south carolina, your great-grandmother visited president william mckinley in washington to urge her to make dashcam to make lynching a

federal crime. this was in 1898. can you talk about that moment and your great-grandmother's life before and after that moment? what was mckinley's response? it is hard to believe it is 2022 with the antilynching law was signed after 200 attempts. >> [discernible] baker was the postmaster which meant he was a federal employee. at that time, that was a procedures job for amanda have. for him to be lynched because white people in that community had a problem with an african-american being in that type of position, my great-grandmother went to william s mckinley and import him to sign legislation making lynching a federal crime

[indiscernible] because the person was a federal employee and she thought he needed to be protected by federal law. amy: can you explain what exactly this law means? i mean, if someone is murdered and they are tried and found guilty, found guilty of murder. talk about what the law does. >> by making it a federal hate crime, what it does is make it so wn a crime happe that would fall under this category, it would be investigated by the federal government and not just state and local government. that is significant because there have been plenty of cases, examples, when only local officials investigate a crime that sometimes justice -- amy: i want to ask if you have a message for the three republicans in the house, andrew clyde of georgia, thomas massie of kentucky, and chip roy of

texas, who voted against the bill? >> hopefully, history will take care of that and their names will be known as those who opposed this law. amy: reverend wheeler parker, jr., do you have a message for them, 67 years after your best friend and cousin was lynched, was murdered and brutalized? >> i thin history will remember them and they will be remembered in history. i have not heard why they voted against it. i would like to know why. we have to pray for people like that. the results and the percentage we got to turnout almost one had a percent, they don't even really count.

-- almost 100%, they don't even really count. amy: what does this antilynching lobby for police killings? for example, of george floyd, of other killings like ahmaud arbery, one of the people invoed with his murder was also a former police officer. reverend wheeler parker, jr.? >> you want to know what does this mean? we know they were found guilty prior to the signing of this law. what we see there in america how far we have come and how ch work we have to do because that spirit is still out there. the law will make you behave better, but it ds not legislate the heart. i was so appreciative of the outcome of the george floyd case

and the next day we had diversity protesting and ahmaud arbery down in georgia. i cannot believe those men got life. it is not the south i know. so we have made a lot of progress. i want to encourage everyone, don't give up. continueo pursue using the law, not violence, not taking the law into your own hands. amy: can you talk about your hope to create an emmett till and mamie till mobley national historic park to honor their memories? >> yes. we are looking forward to that. we have met, we have talked with people. i think it will happen. we need those things. some people say, we are doing better, why bring it up? if we don't do it, if we forget, we are subject to repeat into the same thing as before. we need the benchmarks, kind of like on the highway when you're

driving, they need to post that sign every now and then to let you know what is going on. i think it will be done. the wheels of justice grind, but they grind slow. don't get impatient, don't get discouraged, hang in there. mamie till mobley started it. she did not get to see it, but her great great granddaughter did. we are in it for the long haul. amy: i want to thank you both for being with us. i don't know how many people realize that a philip randolph, the renowned african-american labor organizer, civil rights activist, chose the eighth anniversary of emmett till's murder august 28, 1963, for the march on washington where dr. martin luther king would deliver his famous "i have a dream" speech. thank you so much both for being with us, reverend william -- reverend wheeler parker, jr., emmett till's restaurant and

cousin. and michelle duster, author, professor, public historian advocate for racial , and gender justice, great-granddaughter of mamie till mobley --ida b. wells. she spoke at the signing. next upcoming youtube has deleted the entire archive of chris hedges, nominated television show "on contact post which -- "on contact." we will get an update from the surprise winning journalist about what happened. he is just back from the wedding of the imprisoned wikileaks founder julian assange in the maximum-security prison belmarsh. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: performed by a cookie when

you go. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we spend the rest of the hour today with chris hedges, the pulitzer prize winning journalist who has just seen youtube delete the entire archive of his emmy-nominated television show "on contact," which he hosted for six years on rt america -- a news channel funded by the russian government that recently closed down. this comes as britain announced thursday new sanctions on 14 more russian entities and people, including on state media organizations behind rt and sputnik and some of their senior figures to target those who spread president putin's what they call "fake news and narratives." rt's deputy editor in chief, anna belkin, told reuters -- "with this action the u.k. government has sounded the death knell for media freedom in britain." belkina said britain had tried to silence both rt and wikileaks founder julian assange.

for more, we're joined in new york by chris hedges, who is just back from london as a guest of the imprisoned wikileaks julian assange and stella moris for their wedding. we'll talk more about that in a minute. first, chris, you wrote a piece headlined "on being disappeared" about having your rt shows archive completely deleted saying, "if this happens to me, it can happen to you come to any critic anywhere who challenges the dominant narrative." chris hedges, can you lay out what happened? >> there was no notice. there was no warning. there was no inquiry, just vanished. it is not surprising. if you go back and look at the 2017 director of national intelligence report, seven pages were devoted to rt. while they accused rt of disseminating russian propaganda

come on the examples they cited in the report or that rt was giving a voice to black lives matter, activist from anti-fracking activist, occupy activists, their party candidates all of which was true and so i think this was the culmination. we expected it. i was on your show when they deleted trump from the social media and vigorously opposed it not because i ever went to read another tweeted by donald trump, but because we don't want these opaque entities -- and they know everything about us. we know nothing about them -- to wield this kind of censorship. what i did not expect when i was arguing not to delete trump from social media was i would so quickly be one of the victims. amy: you have any access to this archive? >> through the rt.com on contact site is still up. i don't know how much longer, so

we copy them. at least i will have them. but no, of 52, had hundreds of thousands of use for some of those shows. i want to stress there was not one show on russia and the few times we ever mentioned putin are russia was not an flattering terms. allan nairn using rt i'm sure a purpose to excoriate russia for work comes in syria, but we broadcast it. this was a show if we had a functioning public broadcasting system would be on probably late at night, primarily interviewed authors, i am an author myself, written 14 books. intellectuals that i admire, cornell west, noam chomsky. it was erased for its content. not because it was russian propaganda -- it wasn't -- but because there's been such a marginalization of critics of

anti-imperialism come into capitalism. i'm a very strong supporter, public supporter of the boycott, to investment, sanction movement which i think was that key issue. i great friend cornell west denied tenure at harvard. the walls have closed and since i began as a reporter in central america in the 1980's. there is less and less space for those who are willing to seriously cllenge in question entrenched power. you do it. allan nairn does that. it has become a pretty lonely profession. bob scheer does not have any money come does not have any advertisers -- also tr when you ran rampart -- so it is becoming harder and harder. matt taibi, glenn greenwald, and if i can get enough subscribers on chrishedges.substack.com, i

will find it myself. >> if you are on rt america right now, if it existed, in directv had not canceled, taken rt america off, what would you be saying about russia's invasion of ukraine? >> i denounced russia's invasion of ukraine at the inception for the same reason i denounced her invasion and occupation of iraq at the inception, of which iran into conflict and had to leave "the new york times" because preemptive war under post nuremberg law is a criminal aggression. i was clear about that. rt went dark six days later. i've hard time believing moscow would have allowed me to publicly braced that kind of critique and remain on the air post i don't know. that is conjecture.

yes, it would be deeply hypocritical to lambaste the united states for war crimes and not vladimir putin for war crimes. with this caveat, the invasion of iraq was based on lies and fabrication, i believe i was -- i was in europe in 1989 covering the revolutions in eastern europe. this, of course, was, we assumed, i believed nato would be obsolete was that nato was created to prevent soviet expansion and eastern, central europe. i saw the leaders of margaret thatcher and the reagan administration all promised gorbachev nato would not be expanded beyond the borders of unified germany. then later with the clinton administration, after 13 or 14 states now come of course, have been integrated into nato, the clinton administration promised not to station troops. this was another violation. russia has every right to feel threatened and baited.

that does not justify the war crime they committed. they pulled the trigger. but again, this understanding of the historical -- that led to the attack on ukraine -- you had katrina on here. she knows russia well. that is almost unheard of within the kind of cheerleading for the media within the mainstream media. amy: the publisher of "the nation." you wrote the award-winning book "war is a force that gives us meaning." what does this war give russia in terms of meaning? >> well, i read "the new york times" this morning and they're talking about putin's approval reading going through the roof. that is what war does, it unleashes toxic poisons, including the poison of nationalism, which we imbibed in iraq and to a certain extent are imbibing now, ignoring the two

decades of egregious war crimes we committed in the middle east. the idea that somehow nato is a defensive organization would be greeted with ridicule and countries like iraq or afghanistan or syria or libya or anywhere else. yeah, of course, every society is susceptible to that dark elixir and russia is no exception. they of course turned on their press and their drinking deep from it. we are as guilty of that sin is the russians. amy: what would you say to critics that say rt america, rt was an outlet for russian state propaganda -- which is why it was targeted for removal by youtube? >> to a certain extent, that is probably true. but are we better off not hearing what russia has to say, not understanding why they think

the way they do? i was a foreign correspondent for 20 years. my job was to be culturally, linguist tickling, historically, religiously literate, to step into the shoes of a syrian or aniraqi or palestinian -- i spent six years in latin america and later yugoslavia, to expand how the world looked from their vantage point. why they felt the way they did. oftentimes the grievances they have are very legitimate. i certainly think putin's complaints about the expansion of nato have a great deal of credibility. it is just an historical fact that the leaders of the west lied to gorbachev, light to yeltsin, and lied to putin. that is historically true. we're not a better world by shutting down these eyelids -- outlet and living in her own echo chamber, especially when we wheeled the kind of military power that we do. and this gets into the whole collapse of foreign reporting.

it has kind of gone the way of the dinosaurs but it is extremely important, especially when you are an imperial power. amy: speaking of the walls closing in and press freedom, i wanted to ask about woodley's founder julian assange. this month britain's highest court rejected an appeal from julian, who is seeking to block his extradition to the united states. it means the british home secretary will have the final decision whether to turn assange over to the biden administration. he faces espionage charges that could bring up to 175 years in prison after he published classified u.s. documents on wikileaks. they exposed were crimes. the afghan warlocks. the iraq war logs, stage apartment i -- documents going back decades. julian assange's lawyers say he could have prolonged solitary confinement, conditions that are tantamount to torture.

chris hedges, or in london last week as a guest of julian assange and stella moris for their wedding, which they fought for and a maximum security belmarsh prison. i just want to play what you said outside the prison. >> a society that prohibits the capacity to speak in truth extinguishes the capacity to live in justice. and this is why we are here today. yes, all of us know and admire julian, decry his prolonged suffering and the suffering of his family. amy: that is a pulitzer prize-winning journalist chris hedges speaking last week in london outside the belmarsh prison. in january, we spoke to stella moris on democracy now!, that time that fiancé of julian assange. >>'s physical and mental health are obviously deteriorating

because he is only a man. he is a fighter, a strong person come a strong-willed person who believes in the work he has done . he is aware this is a fight that is against monumental injustice, but there's only so much, and can take. amy: stella, since we have spoken, since we have spoken, had applied to be married, the two of you. the prison forbade that and then reversed their decision. today as you stood outside the new court ruling, said today we won but julian continues to suffer. julian must be free. your final 10 second comment? >> julian -- for every win we get, julian's situation does not seem to change. the biden administration should drop this. we should not have to be taking it through the u.k. justice

system because this is a political prosecution that was initiated by the trump administration and it is causing ongoing harm. amy: that is stella moris, now the wife of julian assange and the mother of their two children. chris hedges, if you can talk about what julian assange faces right now. does he have any final appeal? and why you believe he has been held for as long as he has before the belmarsh prison, course, taken refuge in the ecuadorian embassy where we interviewed him a never of times in london. he is been graded political asylum. >> well, -- let me just throw out because a spanish security firm in the embassy filmed all of julian's meetings with his attorneys, destroying the

capacity for attorney-client coverage, the case should not even be in court. this has been a forceful stub julian did not commit a crime. the people who did commit the crime, which exposed him have never been charged. he ripped back the veil and a way no other publisher has done in our lifetime on the inner workings of power, whether it was the podesta emails or the exposing the ability of the cia to hack everything -- our smartphones, televisions, even our cars -- for the iraqi war logs which you mentioned. the ruling elites are determined to destroy him. stella mentioned his precarious condition. well, it is quite dire. i was in london covering the court trials -- well, not trials, they are hearings -- about the tradition. -- extradition. he was observed pacing, hitting

himself in the face, hallucinating, calling the hotline because in his words he thought about committing suicide's of times a day. he suffered a stroke. he is on antidepressants. they haul him off to the medical wing in isolation. he is crumbling, physically and psychologically. i think that is the point. he can go back now it is expected the home secretary rules in favor of the extradition, he can go back to the lower court which blocked his extradition based on this potential for being a suicide risk and the harsh conditions in american prisons he can challenge the other points -- this is a legal dance that i suppose could last up to a year. meanwhile, he is deteriorating.

but everything looks as if it is engineered to ship him off to gordon crum berg in the eastern district court of virginia. this was the kind of grand persecuted my friend for years and sent daniel hale to expose the widespread killing of civilians by the drone program into prison for 45 months. those of us who have followed the case closely have just watched this burlesque of -- it is more like a show trial and the best of british jurisprudence. which is one of the things i think they make it so difficult to cover. i want to throw in, there were six asked, including craig murray who was probably done the best coverage of the trial. at the last minute, the prison tinnitus injury. i suppose, along with a photographer, i suppose it is part of making julian disappear.

there are no photos, no images of julian other than the one in the police van and after that they put shutters on the windows. so photographers could not take pictures of him. i think they did not want is in there because we -- wrote about it anyway -- because it renders him human and i think exposes the kind of suffering, and excusable suffering, that has been visited on him and his family and his two children and his father. it is absolutely appalling. we criticize vladimir putin, as we should, for press censorship, but what about julian? what about julian assange? agaiain, it is that kind of hypocrisy that characterizes the american ruling class. unfortunately, much of the american media itself. amy: he has been held at belmarsh for more than 1000

days. of course, in captivity in the ecuadorian embassy because if he stepped outside, he would be arrested. if you could end by talking about what he did expose, this trove of documents for which many leading newspapers in this country and around the world won pulitzer prizes in the guardian? >> he exposed the lies that were told repeatedly about the wars in the middle east, 700 civilians who approached too closely to checkpoints and were all gunned down and killed. the routine torture in places like abu ghraib, along with the kind of corruption -- for instance, in haiti, he exposed cables where the u.s. embassy

was in collusion with the haitian ruling class to thwart any ri in the minimum wage. i don't know what it is in haiti, probably under a dollar an hour. i think it is $.33 or something. this is of course -- this part -- remember the arab spring and the pushback against the corrupt ruling class, it all came because of wikileaks. he exposed the duplicity of hillary clinton who was saying one thing to us on the campaign trail and excepting $675,000 to get three talks at goldman sachs. a sum so large it can only be considered a bribe. exposed she orchestrated the war in libya to burnish her own credentials. amy: we have five seconds. close he provided the most important information i would argue along with edward snowden of our generation. they are making sure that he is

crucified for it. amy: will you be suing you two? >> right now i'm just trying to save my shows but that is a good idea. amy: chris hedges, thank you for being with us pulitzer-prize , winning journalist, award-winning author, and activist. happy birthday to mike burke!