04/07/22 04/07/22 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> the price of gas is driven by the global market, what is the price of oil coming down for the price at the pump is still your record highs? amy: house democrats are accusing big oil of ripping off the american people by inflating the price of gas. we will speak to bill mckibben and ukrainian climate activist

svitlana romanko inside ukraine about how the war is impacting energy markets around the world, the new u.n. climate report urging nations to rapidly move away from fossil fuels, and why 30% of the gas russia sells to europe is still going through pipelines located inside ukraine. then we look at the re-election of hungary's far-right nationalist prime minister viktor orban. >> we have no problem paying for gas in rubles if russia asks for this, we will pay in rubles. amy: we will speak to nyu professor ruth ben-ghiat, the author of "strongmen." and then as president biden extends a pandemic pause on federal student loan repayments through august 31, we will talk to astra taylor of the debt collective. >> cr our debts are a source of power. dividually, they overwhelm us but together, we can wield that power as leverage to push for a

better system, to fight for the abolition of unjust debt and the provision of the things that we need to survive to thrive. amy: all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. the pentagon says russia's forces are preparing to redeploy to eastern ukraine. ukrainian officials have urged civilians and the eastern region of luhansk to evacuate is the area comes under heavy fire from russian artillery. elsewhere, newly serviced video appears to show ukrainian soldiers executing a captured russian prisoner of war and an apparent war crime. meanwhile, human rights groups warn russian troops retreating from the eastern khaki region

left behind a new type of advanced landmine triggered by sensors that detect people walking nearby cost of such interpersonal weapons are banned the 1997 mine ban treaty. ukraine became a party to the treaty in 2006, the russia and the united states have refused to sign on. the biden administration has announced new sanctions targeting russia's largest public and private banks, as well as two daughters of russian president vladimir putin. the latest sanctions, as attorney general merrick garland announced the justice department's first indictment against a russian oligarch. garland says he violated sanctions and sought to set up a network of media companies to spread pro-kremlin misinformation. >> the message to those who continue to enable the russian regime through their criminal conduct is this, it does not matter how far you sail your

yacht, it does not matter how well you can sell your assets, it does not matter how cleverly you write your malware or hide your online activity, the justice department will use every available tool to find you , disrupt your plots, and hold you accountable. amy: attorney general garland also said the justice department had disrupted a network of hijacked computers used by russia to carry out cyberattacks. in hungary, newly re-elected authoritarian prime minister viktor orbán said wednesday he will pay for russian gas in rubles, breaking ranks with other european union countries. eu leaders say they're preparing an import ban on russian coal, but sources told reuters that plan will be pushed back to mid-august. meanwhile, eu members continue to purchase vast amounts of russian oil and gas at a cost of about $38 billion since russia invaded ukraine in late february.

on ukraine's president volodymyr wednesday, zelenskyy called for an international market on russian oil sang an action is funding putin's war effort and costing lives. turkey has suspended the trial of 26 saudi men accused of killing and dismembering "the washington post" journalist jamal khashoggi in the saudi consulate in istanbul in 2018. the suspects were being tried in absentia. turkish officials say they'll now turn over the case to prosecutors in saudi arabia. human rights groups say that will lead to a cover-up of the assassination plot, whose alleged masterminds, including crown prince mohammed bin salman, have not faced justice. last month, british prime minister boris johnson traveled to the kingdom and met with mohammed bin salman, asking saudi arabia to pump more oil after russia's invasion of ukraine led to soaring gas prices.

scientists around the world have launched a new civil disobedience campaign demanding a climate revolution. in spain, they joined protesters with extinction rebellion who poured fake blood on the spanish parliament in madrid wednesday, demanding real government action on the climate. this is a climate scientist with the spanish national research council. >> climate change is here and causing deaths of tens of millions of people. we don't know what other language we have to express ourselves. this is the reason for this rebellion, carried out by scientists and 25 countries all over the world. client signs is not being converted to action. amy: a growing number of journalists and prominent democrats have tested positive for coronavirus after a saturday night dinner party at the elite gridiron club in washington, d.c., turned into a super-spreader event. on wednesday, attorney general merrick garland announced a positive test result just hours

after he wrapped up a news conference with fbi director christopher wray and other top-ranking justice department officials. also testing positive -- commerce secretary gina raimondo, jamal simmons, the communications director for vice president harris, and congressmembers joaquin castro and adam schiff. attendees at saturday's dinner needed to show proof of vaccination but were not required to provide a negative covid test. meanwhile, new jersey governor phil murphy appeared in public wednesday for the first time in five days after isolating at home with covid-19. murphy, who narrowly defeated a republican challenger to win re-election last november, was one of the first democratic governors to urge a rollback of mask mandates and other pandemic health measures. in minnesota, prosecutors have declined to bring criminal charges against the minneapolis police officer who fatally shot amir locke while executing a no-knock warrant on february 2.

body-camera video of the incident shows locke appeared to be fast asleep on a coucand wrapped in a blanket when a swat team entered the apartment where he was staying locke reached for a handgun that he legally owned and was shot three times by white police officer mark hanneman, who opened fire less than nine seconds into the raid. locke's mother karen wells spoke wednesday after learning her son's killer would not face charges. >> i am angry. i am matt. i am disgusted with minneapolis minnesota. this country is still a disappointment in 2022. we have rights. we vote. we carry legal firearms and you'll still think that we don't matter. amir is more than a hashtag. we will continue to fight for

the no-knock warrant ban and honor of his name, for breonna taylor. this cannot happen to nobody else. amy: the house of representatives has voted to hold former trump aides peter navarro and dan scavino in contempt of congress for refusing to comply with subpoenas from the january 6 select committee. wednesday's vote fell mostly along party lines, with just two republicans, liz cheney and adam kinzinger, voting in favor of the contempt charges. peter navarro openly boasted that he helped create a strategy of delaying congress's formal count of the 2020 election relts to buy time for donald trump and his supporters to reverse the election outcome. dan scavino was with trump on january 6 and witnessed some of his activities on that day. kentucky democratic governor andy beshear has vetoed a bill that would ban transgender women and girls from school sports teams that align with their gender identity. the bill is modeled after similar anti-trans laws enacted in 12 other states.

republicans, who dominate kentucky's legislature, are poised to override the governor's veto with a simple majority in both chambers. ohio state lawmakers have introduced a bill modeled after florida's so-called "don't say gay" law. the bill would ban teachers in some grades from discussing sexual orientation or gender identity. the bill would also prohibit the teaching of what the lawmakers describe as "divisive or inherently racist concepts." examples cited in the bill include critical race theory, intersectional theory, and the 1619 project. here in new york, mayor eric adams is pushing ahead with his controversial plan to clear encampments in the city where unhoused p people have taken shelter. on wednesday, new york police arrested six activists and an unhoused man after a seven-hour standoff at one encampment in the east village of manhattan. residents of the small encampment demanded the city provide actual housing to those in need. >> we need apartments, not

temporary housing. apartment studios now. there are more than 100,000 children homeless in new york city for the sixth year in a row. it is disgusting. i was in a family shelter when i was 17 years old, man. it destroys people's lives, man. amy: new york civil liberties union executive director donna lieberman said -- "the mayor's attempt to police away homelessness and sweep individuals out of sight is a page from the failed giuliani playbook. with no real plan for housing, services, or supports, the administration is choosing handcuffs." and the prominent media critic eric boehlert has died at the age of 57 after a bike accident. he was a former senior fellow at media matters and a staff writer at salon. it's his books included "lapdogs: how the press rolled over for bush." the columnist will bunch described eric boehlert as "an irreplaceable voice in fighting

against media misinformation in this country." to see our interview, go to democracynow.org. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peacreport. i'm amy goodman. on capitol hill, house lawmakers grilled executives from the some of the largest oil and gas companies wednesday, accusing them of price-gouging consumers even as they rake in record profits. democrats on the house energy and commerce committee accused fossil fuel executives of exploiting the pandemic and the war in ukraine to pad their bottom lines. this is committee chair, california democrat diana degette. -- colorado democrat diana degette. >> if gas is driven by the global market, what is the price of oil going down but the price at the pump is still near record highs? if it is an issue of supply and

demand, wouldn't that be reflected in the global price of oil as well? something does not add up. amy: that is colorado democrat degette. meanwhile, republicans used wednesday's hearing on high gas prices to support the big oil companies. this irepublic ohio congressmember bill johnson. >> for heaven sakes, they are blaming you for high gas prices, for inflation, for bad weather, and all the worlds problems that their failed policies are actually causing. your industry has a lot to be proud of. amy: executives from exxon mobil, chevron, bp america, shell usa, and other companies testified virtually during the hearing even though they were invited to appeain person. exxonmobil ceo darren woods claimed the solution to higher prices at the pump is to increase oil and gas production. >> today russia provides 10% to be global demand. about 30% of europe's natural

gas demand. the loss of this volume could be much more significant than the impact of the arab oil embargo and would represent the largest supply disruption in the history of our industry. unfortunately, there is no quick fix. the answer is straightforward. if we want to reduce prices, we need to increase supply. amy: this comes as a new report by friends of the earth, public citizen, and bailoutwatch looked at financial records of exxonmobil, chevron, conocophillips, and others and found they've increased stock buybacks and dividends since russia invaded ukraine, enriching investors instead of reducing oil and gas prices for consumers. bailoutwatch data analyst christopher kuveke said -- "the actions of these oil executives make it clear that no matter how much they groan about the biden administration's environmental policies and blame putin for high prices, their focus remains entirely on lining their own pockets."

for more, we are joined by two guests. bill mckibben, author, educator, environmentalist, and founder of the organization "third act," which organizes people over 60 years old for progressive change, and cofounder of 350.org. and in ukraine, svitlana romanko, ukrainian climate activist and longtime environmental lawyer who wrote a los angeles op-ed with mckibben last month headlined "the ukraine war is a decision point -- banks should stop funding the fossil fuel industry forever. we welcome you both back to democracy now! bill mckibben, let's begin with u and the big oil hearing. what was your take awa >> look, it is sickening to sit and watch exxon executives talk like that. you don't need much imaginatn memory to recall that darren woods predecessor rex tillerson was such a friend of vladimir putin that prudent literally -- putin pinned a metal on him outside moscow because exxon was

perfectly willing just what kind of regime putin was running to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in trying to get at arctic oil they could only get at because they had already melted. it goes on and on and on. the koch brothers, who are still doing business in russia right now, the got their start, the family fortune was founded building refineries for stalling. -- stalin. there protesting hollow especially because ty know what the altnative i the alternatives rapid deployment of renewable energy just as the ipcc report called for earlier this week. amy: i think most people have asked, why are the gas prices going through the roof, bill? that would say, oh, it is because of the war in ukraine. of the fact the oil companies

are using this crisis to record unprecedented profits, lifting these prices not because of the war in ukraine, but using it as a cover. >> does that surprise you, amy? given what you know about t role of the oil industry? these are predatory companies that have used every excuse, and this is one of the grossest, to try and increase their profit margins. right now the fact they are pa dding their profits -- this is the definition of a windfall profit. it is not like they did something new this year that should get them, you know, higher profit. the only new thing that happened was vladimir putin, who they have been encouraging and building up for decades, launched a brutal war in ukraine and now they are the ones making

literally a killing while people like svitlana romanko sit there and absorb the losses as they come in one after another. amy: how about white house proposal, not the white house, but senator whitehouse's proposal institute to try to get past the windfall tax act that would make these ceos pay a price? >> i was reading today and it looks like that would send back about $250 to every american to help them deal with that. just as importantly, it would take some of the excess money out of the hands of the fossil fuel industry because what to they use it to buy congress. joe manchin, single-handedly held up any work on climate

change throughout the biden administration come is the biggest recipient of those fossil fuel dollars, which are dirty top to bottom. amy: i want to bring svitlana romanko into this conversation, joining us from western ukraine, longtime climate activist and environmental lawyer. when you hear -- i doubt you had a chance being in ukraine to watch the hearing in the u.s. congress yesterday, but the u.s. ceo's admitting they are making record profits right now. your response as they use the war in ukraine partially as an excuse? >> oh, yes. i believe i am truly sure that we are approaching the stage where these companies will be quickly dismantled. i belie we are at tipping

point of that because record profits they have made over the past year are not accepted with civil society and even some governments anymore. at the same moment i am talking with you here, the european parliament has just voted for a full embargo on russian oil and gas immediately. so the progress is ongoing. i believe along with dismantling and ending the horrific war against ukraine, we will dismantle the system that enables the fossil fuel industry to profit over lives. amy: it might surprise a lot of people that russia's invasion of ukraine prompted the united states to put -- this would not surprise -- put a ban of imports on russian oil and gas, so it was interesting to see a read a

new "washington post" piece headlined "ukraine's pipelines are still carrying russian gas to europe." it is about ukraine's state-owned gas company. the article reads -- "even as russia rains missiles onto ukraine, it is still sending approximately 30% of the gas it sells in europe through the country it has invaded. and although ukraine's leaders have called for the continent to immediately halt imports of russian gas, they are doing nothing to interfere with the gas flowing through pipelines at a rate of 40 billion cubic meters a year to customers including germany, austria, italy, slovakia, hungary and the czech republic." "the washington post" also reports both russia and ukraine profit by keeping the gas flowing -- russia by selling the gas at high prices and ukraine by collecting transit fees. i wanted to get your response to this, but first, play clip of an

interview with ukraine state run gas company, the ceo, bloomberg markets and finance last month. russia is using currently only about one third of the available capacity of gas through ukraine. this increased even before the war for different reasons. currently, there just using conductive capacity. as soon cast continues to flow through ukraine, not just a matter of payments that russia is making a we are getting this money, but more about at least some deterrent in terms of protection of our infrastructure. amy: svitlana romanko, you are a ukrainian climate activist and longtime environmental lawyer who founded the stand with ukraine campaign, calling on governments to ban trade and investment in russian oil and gas.

can you respond to this fact that russia is sending the gas through ukraine and ukraine is profit off of that and yet demanding governments in europe say no to the oil and gas? close of course. -- >> of course. [indiscernible] to ban entirely all oil and gas. they completely realize the consequences of that and outcomes will be followed up with that action. i think ukraine, it is not a question -- the annual profit from -- $1 billion to $2 billion

in really. ukraine has already lost about $560 billion of annual gdp right now at the end of march because of the russian invasion. so it is not a question of profit, it is a question of responsibility on the fossil fuel company that still wants -- promises that gas will be transported through ukraine. i think there should be collaboration on both sides of the sub i chain from the ukrainian government could in berkowitz. guest transit. it will have a huge economic loss for you crave it as i said, [indiscernible] gdp declined 60% right now. civil society demands stop.

[indiscernible] that is the price we are paying. we should share that risk with the eu in the whole world. we are overpaying by human lives, by destroying our entire infrastructure and the economic losses, as i said. amy: i want to get bill mckibben's response to this. it may shock many people that ukraine understandably is demanding from the eu to put an embargo on oil and gas coming from russia and yet it is allowing that gas to go through ukraine. 30% of europe's gas. >> it should not shock anyone, amy, because ukraine is in an impossible situation. they are desperately need -- any of the help from you. if they unilaterally decide to shut down the flow, they

need the germans to say "we will not be taking this anymore. we can help a great deal with that. we need to use the u.s. defense production act not to build -- you're already supplying antitank weapons but the real weapons in this war will also turn out to be things like your sourcing pumps that over the summer could allow much of europe to get off russian gas and on to clean electricity. that is where we need to head because if we get to a world which it would be completely possible to do in a matter of years that runs on sun and wind, vladimir putin cannot embargo the sun. he can't interdict the wind. then places like ukraine will not be placed in excruciating position that they are in right now.

i don't think theres hypocrisy on the part of ukraine. i thinkthere is some kind of hope for survival. i think that is what we should all be hoping for free ukraine. amy: just to be clear, even as russia rains missiles onto ukraine just for the percentage to be correct, it is still sending approximately 30% of the gas it sells in europe through ukraine. i also wanted to ask svitlana romanko about you move to block russian energy imports since the invasion, particularly focus specifically on coal. many around the world our site it should be expanded from coal. >> i found it is ridiculous. in the sense of impact, coal embargo next only 4 billion annual profit income with a net

profit that they're going to get in 2022 -- over $240 billion. as we can see -- would not make such a political difference. [indiscernible] we are demanding a full embargo on oil and gas and ukraine is ready to collaborate, as i said, multiple statements and call to action from ukrainian officials. realize the next steps, all the power it should take. amy: i want to go to the new u.n. report that just came out, the united nations warning monday humanity has less than three years to slash greenhouse gas emissions nearly in half in

order to prevent the most catastrophic effects of the climate crisis. in this major new report, scientists with the u.n.'s intergovernmental panel on climate change find that without immediate and dramatic action, it will be impossible to limit global temperature rise to 1.5 degrees celsius above pre-industrial levels. u.n. secretary-general antónio guterres said the report documents a litany of broken climate promises by nations. >> it is the file of shame, cataloging the empty pledges that put us firmly on track toward an unlivable world. we are on a fast-track to climate disaster. terrifying storms, widespread water shortages, the extinction of a million species of plants and animals come and this is not fiction or exaggeration. it is what science tells us will

result from our current energy policies. amy: i want to get both of your actions to this climate report beginning with bill mckibben, adding lost, to say the least, -- getting lost, to say the least, and top news. how this directly connects to the war? close first of all, it is not as if there's something brand-new what they said but what is new is the tone. every time the ipcc issues another report, we're further down the road without having done anything to stop it was quite interesting to listen to antonio guterres. this man is the top diplomats on the planet. used to speing to diplomatic language. he has abandon that. he is also the one guy whose political jurisdiction is the whole earth and he is clearly scared. he said, among other things, thought the most important, he

said at this point it is economically and morally insane to continue new investment in the development of fossil fuels. and yet last week we alsoaw the lease of this new report showing the biggest u.s. banks are doing just that, which is why at third act we have this pledge to get people to a years and cut up the credit cards from citi and chase and wells fargo and bofa if they have not changed. that report reminds us fossil fuel is at the root of our problems. it is at the root of the despotisms we see in russia or in saudi arabia or the koch brothers to form her own democracy. also at the root of the biggest existing jewel challenge we have ever faced. remember, was late last month what was the temperatures in the

antarctic condescended degrees fahrenheit -- climbed to 70 degrees fahrenheit above normal. that concts so deeply with this point in ukraine and they both need to scare us to the core of our beings. amy: and svitlana romanko, if you can respond. and if you can see the moment, this horror in her own country taking place, as a time when the world turns to renewable energy? >> absolutely. i also think that so far it is very good that governments imposed the sanctions on investments in russia. i think they need to go further and look to their own countries and impose all internal -- into investment in new fossil fuel projects. more than that, sees all investments from existing fossil fuel projects.

[indiscernible] 10 years ago up to now. finally, i would say increase pressure on world leaders, financial institutions, call on a day of action which will be april 22 and early may, may 8 and may 16 two call to end the war in ukraine and the war on people. we call for all solidarity and peace. please join our mobilization to make a difference. amy: last quick question, you're with the movement which is medieval central italian for " praise be to you" a catholic group. your group is formally known as

the global catholic climate movement. pope francis has said he may come to ukraine. that also the group refers to the pope's encyclical on the climate crisis. can you talk about the significance of his possible trip? >> it is very significant because we at the movement -- encyclical -[indiscernible] recognizes the fact the war in ukine has been funded by fossil fuels. and pope francis' leadership may create a difference in this war and may end war in ukraine with

an leadership around this. were also for [indiscernible] one of the important ways how can overcome climate crisis, ecological crisis and finally get peace and social justice. we will probably collaborate more around fossil fuel, nonproliferation treaty, and all the leaders joint in this treaty and the countriewhere the gasoline -- encyclical teaches us to take care of all creation. i believe the pope will take the significant step and we will assist him if he decides to visit areas that suffered the most. we are grateful for this gesture. amy: svitlana romanko, thank you

for being with us, ukrainian climate activist and longtime environmental lawyer my joining us from western ukraine. please, be safe. bill mckibben, author, environment list, the founder of the organization "third act," and wrote the op-ed together "the ukraine war is a decision point -- banks should stop funding the fossil fuel industry forever." bill joining us from vermont. next up, we look at the reelection of hungary's far right prime minister. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: amy: hungary broke with the european union and announced it is prepared to start paying for russian gas in rubles. hungary's right-wing nationalist leader viktor orbán made the announcement just days after he

was reelected to a fourth consecutive term as prime minister. >> we have no problem paying for gas in rubles. if russia asks for this, and will pay in rubles. amy: orban is widely viewed as vladimir putin's closest ally in eupe. he has condemned russia's invasion of ukraine. during a conversation on wednesday, orban reportedly urgeputin to ilement an immediate ceasefire in ukraine and offered to host talks in budapest. ukraine, which shares an 85 miles border with hungary, criticized orban's ties to putin. the ukrainian foreign ministry issued a statement saying -- "apparently, after the elections, budapest moved on to the next step -- helping putin continue his aggression against ukraine." while orban has been widely criticized for cracking down on press freedom and promoting anti-immigrant policies, he has been embraced by republicans in the united states. donald trump endorsed his

re-election and cpac, the conservative political action conference, is planning to hold a three-day meeting in hungary in may. the keynote eaker will be viktor orban. to talk more about orban and his reelection, we are joined by ruth ben-ghiat. she's the author of "strongmen: how they rise, why they succeed, how they fall." she professor of history and italian studies at new york university. she publishes lucid, a newsletter on threats to democracy. her recent cnn piece is headlined "orban's juggling act with putin and europe faces a key test." talk about the significance of his reelection. was he hurt in anyway way by his support of putin? >> orban played it very well. he said we have to stay out of this war. he notably poopooed the idea of

any sanctions on russian energy but sing to hungarian voters, this will drive up our prices so he poses this protector had gary and interests. many people felt with the war so close by they wanted stability so he always manages to pose as this kind of stable protector figure. now, what swayed the election is he has developed a system called electoral autocracy where he uses gerrymandering and has captured the judiciary and he is essentially developed a system over his 12 years -- it is very difficult for an opposition party to prevail. the system is kind of gamed from the outset. the other factor which is of interest to global politics and

progressives everywhere i think is that he faces unprecedented opposition. six parties that banded together for the first time to try and unseat him and that has been used, this idea that everybody comes together. it has worked in other places. by this coalition included a very far right party which joined the coalition and was becoming a little more centrist. that backfired because those voters did not want to embrace a centrist coalition that included progressives. because politics come after so many years of orban, a demagogue has become polarized. so those voters defected to orban's party or even to an extremist kind of neofascist hungarian party. like there is no center anymore. so i must million votes --

almost a million votes were lost and that fther harmed the opposition. amy: i want to go to orbán's chief rival, peter marki-zay, campaigning saying hungary's future lies in the european union and in nato. but some voters seemed swayed by orbán's claim that this could lead hungary into war. this is a vor. >> obvious the, russia and ukraine had a lot to do with it and to orbán said he would definitely not allow the hungarian arms -- families to send their sons to the front lines. amy: professor? close this is classic orban, sadly playing on fears of people because it is a very remote is that hungarians would have to send people to war even if they were allies. but he plays on the fears and it is this ideology of hungary from

a protection that we have to be protected from jordan soros. he made his victory speech and he takes the eu's money but they are hostile force. the world is stacked against hungary and only i can protect you. like, hungary first. that voter is expressing these fears that we have to stay out but this attitude that he promotes is a kind of -- it leads to more xenophobia, leads to more paranoia. and that is exactly the kind of attitude that right-wing politicians like him need in voters so they can stay in power. amy: i wanted to go back to last october when fox news host tucker carlson broadcast nightly from budapest and interviewed the hungarian prime minister orban, and asked him about his anti-immigrant policies. >> of somebody across your

border, you have to defend your country. if you like to cross or come, there is a legal procedure. we have to do it. you cannot cross without any kind of limitation and permission and contribution and control of the hungarian state. it is dangerous. you have to defendour people against any danger. >> and you think you have a right to do that? >> of course. it is coming from go nature, argument with us because this is our country, this is our population, our history, our language so we have to do that. amy: if you could talk, professor, about orban as an icon for the right in the united states that cpac is going to have its conference there, the conservative, and this in an interview with tucker carlsen where he was based for a few days in hungary? >> for a whole week.

i have been tracking this. i have written about three essays for my newsletter on this. mike pence went there last year. orban had a demographic summit. pence cho to go tre and there he expressed his hope that we would no longer have abortion in the united states most of was all about pro family. tucker carlsen is quite extraordinary that he chose to broadcast for a whole week there and he and other republicans are very open about hungary and hungary --orban's view. this should be the future of america. and tucker carlsen has said on his show should we hold up hungary as an example of what america should be in the future? and the answer for them is yes. it is not just anti-immigrant

sentiment, these elections on april 3, there was also a referendum to further stoke anti-lgbtq sentiment. orban has been one of the most aggressive in europe at repressing the rights of lgbtq people. in 2018, he outlawed gender studies. in 2020, he ended legal recognition for transgender people. in 2021, he banned all television or other educational materials showing -- educating about gender identity and sexual orientation. you see how they are so many bills, hundreds of them now pending around the united states, that are on the same key . so there is a lot of ideological synergy between the gop and orban and what the gop fixing on now with voter suppression,

gerrymandering, is leading -- they see somebody who has succeeded in what they want to do politically. amy: finally, if you could commt on what orban means for putin right now? you have orban, third longest serving leader in your behind lukashenko, belarus, putin, and then orban. now he says he's going to buy gas in rubles. what does that mean? also, his relationship with the rest of the united states government? >> orban is useful for putin. it is interesting shortly before the war started, orban made a declaration that 2021 was the best every year for hungarian -russian relations. what orbán is able to do, and he is much more palatable

acceptable autocrat like lukashenko -- lukashenko is an upright and outright dictator and putin puppet. orbán, because he is in this eu, has this veneer of a little more independence. for that reason, is dangerous. he is very much a conduit for the infiltration and spread of putin ideas in a more palatable frame. that is also why the gop and other --le pen and france feel that putin may be toxic -- amy: this weekend. >> that's right. and orbán seems more acceptable. we don't hear about people being poisoned or falling out of windows. and yet orbán is very tied to putin and not just because of energy. so he is definitely one of these partners that putin has long depended on.

he had germany, italy, and now orbán. amy: ruth ben-ghiat, thank you for being with us, expert on the psychology of authoritarianism. we will link to your piece "orban's juggling act with putin and europe faces a key test." author of "strongmen: how they rise, why they succeed, how they fall," and publishes lucid, a newsletter on threats to democracy. pandemic pause on student loans, we will speak to astra taylor of the debt collective in 30 seconds. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "no such luck" by michael mcdonald. this is democracy now! i'm amy goodman. facing mounting pressure, president biden has extended the pandemic pause on federal student loan repayments through august 31 after the relief was due to expire in may. he made the announcement and a video message wednesday. >> it is interesting in that national -- amy: that is not president biden but we will go to that clip right now. pres. biden: a pause through august 31, 20 22.

i know if folks were hit hard by this pandemic and we have come a long wait in the last year but still recovering from economic crisis. this continued pause will help americans breathe a little easier as we recover and rebuild from the pandemic. amy: latest for the latest extension came after hundreds of protesters marched on the education department in washington, d.c., for a national day of action monday demanding biden cancel all student debt, and calling for a may day student debt strike if payments resumed. student debt cancellation would give relief to some 45 million people who owe nearly $1.8 trillion in student loans. this is braxton brewington of the debt collective speaking at the rally monday. >> i have tens of thousands of dollars worth of student loan debt. my mother has student loan debt. my father has due to loan debt. my brother has student loan debt. my sister has student loan debt.

my aunts has student loan debt. this is a systemic problem. black folks are bearing the burden of student debt. women are bearing the burden of student debt. amy: for more, we're joined by astra taylor, co-director of the debt collective. in response to reports of this latest extension tuesday, just after your protest, the debt collective tweeted -- "we have to keep pushing. this isn't enough." welcome back to democracy now! can you respond to the extension of the moratorium but not debt forgiveness? >> the timing is significant. we were in washington, d.c. come on monday. the debt collective over 70 cosponsors, higher ed, labor united, organized labor -- really has a show of force representing those 45 million borrowers you talked about.

we had letters signed by over 1000 faculty. we have people taking their dental work, labor unions like the chicago teachers union, united teachers of los angeles passing resolutions and support. this was months and months of organizing, going back from the last extension to say we need action on this. we need to keep pushing for the cancellation. august 31 is too much before the midterms. we have a tremendous amount of leverage. i am feeling very encouraged about the state of play right now. we have to remember, none of these extensions -- we are on extension five or six depending on how you count -- none of these were granted out of the goodness of the administrations hard. in december, the biden administration said clearly, "this is our final extension and it is a top priority." here we are 2022 saying, the extension is ongoing.

the cancellation is still on the table. we need to keep organizing and pushing cause a pause does not solve the crisis. you cannot pause a crisis, had to cancel the debt. amy: i want to turn to congressmember alexandria ocasio-cortez tweeted tuesday following news of biden's plans -- "i think some folks read these extensions as savvy politics, but i don't think those folks understand the panic and disorder it causes people to get so close to these deadlines just to extend the uncertainty. it doesn't have the effect people think it does." biden's pause on student loan repayments comes months before the midterm elections. this is aoc on inside city hall with host errol louis. >> it is biden's power and ability to cancel student debt and nobody else's. >> with his falling approval numbers, one might think it would try to do something other than cruising down a path to a very tough reelection most of to get any sense of whether they

are open to that? >> i think the fact the biden administration has not been squarely shutting down a lot of these executives orders does convey an openness, but i think it is time -- the time for the administration is running out. amy: can you explain come astra taylor, was student debt cancellation would decrease the racial wealth gap in this country? >> it is one of the most effective ways to quickly narrow the racial wealth gap and that is because black borrowers are disproportionately burdened by student loans. people who own the most student debt are women with lack women burden most of all stop that is because of things like the lack of intergenerational well. if you have money, you don't ve to borrow to go to college. if you are making less then your colleagues, it is hard for you to pay back those debts. as my colleague said in his great speech, this is not just

about individuals, this is about whole families, and intergenerational issue. what happens is statistically, white borrowers, especially men, are able to pay down their debt more quickly than their black counterparts who wind up owing far more over the terms of a loan than they actually borrowed. this is like we the concept of forgiveness. we are demanding justice and cancellation because a lot of people -- they paid off the principal, paid off the core note, they are st paying the compounding interest fees. that is why cancellation needs to happen. as aoc said, this is something the president can do with the flick of a pen. he is creating chaos through these extensions and delays. we need decisive action, especially with the midterms learning. amy: we see how much money the government will release when it comes to war. explain exactly who is fighting

against debt cancellation. >> loan servicers for sure. the stock of some loan servicers took a hit yesterday which in our view is very good news because these are basically predators and profiteers who are trying to extract money through something that should be -- from something that should be a public good come education. the fact people are pursuing a better life. loan servicers for sure stand to lose in this game. unfortunately, people who we think should be allies, colleges and universities, are attached to the debt driven model we have in place. faculty at those institutions who can shift the balance of power, so they are not obstacles. of course, there is the conservatives who say, what's next? medical debt? you're going to come for the $30

billion of back rent people oh? the debt collective says, yes. people should have the right to housing. amy: president biden is from delaware. isn't that word many of the creditors are based? >> indeed, president biden is from delaware, one of the finance capitals of the world. what motivates biden is the very dated conception of who the student debtor is. there has been a shift in his rhetoric. he was boxed into a corner on the campaign trail, forced to run on debt cancellation thanks to years and years of grassroots organizing and pressure. the minute he is in office, he starts hemming and hawing and talking about the fact, oh, cancel the debt for lawyers and doctors. in addition to his financial ties, he does not understand who actually is pursuing higher education in this country, who is burdened by debt. the fact 40% of student debtors

don't even have a college degree. amy: we want to thank astra taylor for being here, organizer with. happy birthday to matt ealy! we have an immediate opening for a news writer producer. go to democracynow.org for information. [captioning made possible by

girl: my name is alexandria villaseñor. boy: my name is iglia bra. boy: i'm carl smith. boy: my name is david ackley. [girl speaking native language] girl: my name is ayakha melithafa. boy: my name is raj tanagi. girl: my name is yur kapadaem. boy: my name is litokne kabua. girlmy name is greta. we are actually saying that yo are violatinchildr's rights ile you have--yohave rectified the un convention of